| lastshell | What does that means " | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| lastshell | Masks and filtration are variant-proof" | 00:01 |
| lastshell | is ok the mask and ventilation ? | 00:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): For those following my Tweets only for public-health info about #SARSCoV2, you can stop reading here as we don't know more than 👆 right now. But as scientist interested in epistasis, I want to link above discussion of Omicron to basic research in molecular [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1465453823963451397 | 00:04 |
| lastshell | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna6881 | 00:19 |
| lastshell | Omicron variant now in North America, Canadian officials say | 00:19 |
| LjL | didn't i have an amp redirector thing in the bot? nothing ever works ;( | 00:22 |
| LjL | lastshell, he means that masks and filtration protect you with any variant; vaccines and treatments not necessarily | 00:22 |
| TurboTech | So this is Mild. https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media?thread_id=100007660321433&attachment_id=1482910992090324&message_id=mid.%24cAABa9OcC0qiDn0WQPl9bgBG6xdmT | 00:27 |
| LjL | need to be logged in to facebook, nothanks ;( | 00:27 |
| TurboTech | Sorry. It is from Worldometer | 00:29 |
| TurboTech | South Africa Weekly case change went up 250% over the previous 7 days and deaths went from 90 to 223. | 00:30 |
| LjL | anyway, probably for the best that i don't see it, i'mmm already feeling... ugh, okay | 00:30 |
| TurboTech | IN the same time period | 00:30 |
| LjL | 250% meaning previous_weekly*2.5, or previous_weekly+previous_weekly*2.5? | 00:30 |
| TurboTech | Of course those with the new variant are not dead yet so we do not know. | 00:31 |
| LjL | i always get thoroughly confused with that | 00:31 |
| TurboTech | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table | 00:31 |
| LjL | i think the calls of "mild" were misguidedly early | 00:31 |
| TurboTech | Sort by weekly case % change | 00:31 |
| LjL | as in, they shouldn't have made, because we couldn't possibly have known | 00:31 |
| LjL | they were all young people | 00:31 |
| TurboTech | Yes yes and yes | 00:31 |
| LjL | anyway, the case change is +250% while the death change is +148%. of course, as you said, we may not be seeing any Omicron deaths yet | 00:32 |
| LjL | but that doesn't immediately make it obvious that it is *not* mild, either | 00:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Series] Strategies and interventions for healthy adolescent growth, nutrition, and development: Adolescence is a pivotal point in the life course, characterised by transformative physical, cognitive, and emotional growth, an openness to change, and a drive to [... want %more?] → https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01593-2/fulltext | 00:33 |
| LjL | i think i'll stay on a very... mildly... hopeful "we don't know" | 00:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +1844 cases (now 1.8 million), +15 deaths (now 29704) since 7 hours ago — Netherlands: +21454 cases (now 2.7 million) since 21 hours ago | 00:33 |
| aann | plenty of delta in europe to talk about | 00:34 |
| aann | US still at 950 deaths/day | 00:34 |
| de-facto | Rt = [ N(t) / N(t0) ] ^ [ts/(t-t0)] hence Rt = [ N(t) / N(t-7d) ] ^ (4 / 7) | 00:36 |
| lastshell | I also saw a new about more young patiens in SA | 00:39 |
| de-facto | so comparing todays values with those for the same day one week ago and raise to 0.5714...-th power | 00:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://ibz-shiny.ethz.ch/covid-19-re-international/ <-- choose South Africa in the dropdown | 00:42 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From ibz-shiny.ethz.ch: COVID-19 Re | 00:42 |
| de-facto | the giant single day spike is not too helpful though | 00:43 |
| de-facto | cluster of datapoints on 2021-11-23 | 00:47 |
| de-facto | it even provides regional data how nice | 00:48 |
| de-facto | Gauteng continues to contribute comparably high numbers (relative to the other regions) | 00:49 |
| de-facto | Gauteng cases on November 23th: 8099; 24th: 1021; 25th: 1951; 26th: 2184; 27th: 2629; 28th: 2308 | 00:52 |
| de-facto | the initial day most likely is tracing down the source cluster | 00:53 |
| de-facto | the comming days may be some kind of community transmission in the contacts of those students | 00:53 |
| TurboTech | US not reporting numbers numbers they have serious catching up to do from the 4 day holiday. | 00:54 |
| de-facto | possibly Rt ~ 1.8-2.0 could fit into those datapoints there | 01:04 |
| de-facto | yeah that would mean doubling each 4 days | 01:05 |
| de-facto | doubling time T2 = 4d Ln(2) / Ln(Rt) | 01:05 |
| de-facto | its a bit hard to tell since they scatter so much (small sampling size) | 01:06 |
| de-facto | also who knows what usual weekly pattern they would have | 01:07 |
| de-facto | almost impossible to tell from that few datapoints, it was a guesstimate | 01:07 |
| de-facto | now if only we would know the Rt for Delta in same population there | 01:09 |
| de-facto | then we could estimate how much more reproductive Omicron is by the factor = Rt(Omicron) / Rt(Delta) | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vegan Who Rejected COVID-19 Vaccine Over Animal Testing Dies Of Virus → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r595mb/vegan_who_rejected_covid19_vaccine_over_animal/ | 01:10 |
| de-facto | its summer there in SA, so if Rt ~ 2 would turn out ot be true that would be quite a lot | 01:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: US preps vaccine contingencies amid panic over poorly understood omicron → https://arstechnica.com/ | 01:29 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/DHdSzld https://i.imgur.com/LqCzrOf.png data from https://ibz-shiny.ethz.ch/covid-19-re-international/ Fit function Cases[t] = Cases[t0] * Rt ^ ((t-t0)/4) gives approximately Rt ~ 2 | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID South Africa: Cases in Johannesburg / Gauteng - Album on Imgur | 01:32 |
| de-facto | LjL ^^ | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +42246 cases (now 10.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk): NEW: France reports first case of new coronavirus variant, found on the island of Réunion bnonews.com/index.php/2021… → https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1465472993849663492 | 01:57 |
| lastshell | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna6922 | 03:09 |
| lastshell | Covid-19 hospitalizations rising in South Africa’s omicron hot spot | 03:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China makes billion-dose pledge to Africa to help overcome the coronavirus pandemic → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5bxe2/china_makes_billiondose_pledge_to_africa_to_help/ | 03:21 |
| de-facto | hmm not so mild then | 03:23 |
| de-facto | right now infections surpass completions of vaccinations in Germany: each day there are more registered infections than completions of vaccinations | 03:37 |
| de-facto | the crossover happened at weekly incidence ~460/100k | 03:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +42780 cases (now 10.2 million) since 10 hours ago — Netherlands: +15 cases (now 2.7 million) since 10 hours ago | 03:40 |
| de-facto | though reproduction value is on slight decline for at least 4 weeks ago now, if trends continue we could reach endemic in 30-40 days (though i doubt things would not have changed till new years) | 03:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US CDC says all adults should get Covid-19 booster shots → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-cdc-says-all-adults-should-get-covid-19-booster-shots-7648283/ | 04:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +47836 cases (now 1.7 million), +126 deaths (now 26966) since 2 days ago — India: +6990 cases (now 34.6 million), +190 deaths (now 468980), +1876586 tests (now 641.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Simple tips to combat post-Covid weakness and fatigue → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/health/simple-tips-to-combat-post-covid-weakness-fatigue-7645939/ | 05:33 |
| sdfgsdfg | whatsa poppin | 06:16 |
| joerg | Germany incidence/100k7k 452,4 -> 452,2 - the trend stabilizes | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Antwerp, Belgium: +8556 cases (now 250538) since 2 days ago — East Flanders, Belgium: +8200 cases (now 211351) since 2 days ago — West Flanders, Belgium: +6971 cases (now 176629) since 2 days ago — Flemish Brabant, Belgium: +4683 cases (now 147639) since 2 days ago | 06:34 |
| sdfgsdfg | joerg what does that mean | 06:35 |
| sdfgsdfg | that they are at the peak ? probably | 06:35 |
| joerg | we had same amount of new cases like one week ago, no more going up | 06:37 |
| joerg | if this is a trend change or a temporary artifacr... we'll see | 06:38 |
| joerg | ket me kick off my statistics "cron" for today, the chart should show something meanwhile | 06:52 |
| joerg | let* | 06:52 |
| joerg | it doesn't show meaningful values for last 3 days, but meanwhile... | 06:54 |
| joerg | Scientists like Prieseman already said it yesterday: we might have reached R_t=1, we nevertheless need R_t=0.7 | 06:56 |
| joerg | https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/braunschweig_harz_goettingen/Omikron-bereitet-auch-Goettinger-Forscherin-Priesemann-Sorgen,aktuellbraunschweig7788.html | 06:57 |
| joerg | http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 07:05 |
| joerg | look at zoomed chart, 2021-11-25 / 26 | 07:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna chief predicts existing vaccines will struggle with Omicron → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5g7k5/moderna_chief_predicts_existing_vaccines_will/ | 07:25 |
| joerg | >><sdfgsdfg> that they are at the peak ? probably<< either a peak, or a plateau | 07:27 |
| joerg | there's a chance for a peak, counting in all circumstances | 07:27 |
| joerg | however see peak around 2021-09-02 which was a plateau in the end | 07:28 |
| joerg | same around 2021-03-26 and 2020-11-06 | 07:30 |
| * joerg once more fixes ranges and scales of charts... | 07:31 | |
| joerg | done | 07:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna CEO says vaccines likely less effective against Omicron → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5gu45/moderna_ceo_says_vaccines_likely_less_effective/ | 07:44 |
| Malvolio | .bribbe | 07:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): Merck's COVID Pill Appears Effective, But May Pose Pregnancy Risks: FDA → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 08:03 |
| joerg | Appears Effective? 30%? | 08:34 |
| joerg | anyway link borked | 08:36 |
| joerg | file not found | 08:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 Omicron variant: Response from countries and vaccine makers → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/covid-19-omicron-variant-response-from-countries-and-vaccine-makers-7648364/ | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Japan confirms first case of new coronavirus variant → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5i121/japan_confirms_first_case_of_new_coronavirus/ | 09:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | November 30, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/r5i9us/daily_discussion_thread_november_30_2021/ | 09:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | in a lot of countries it ended up being a plateau | 09:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | it could end up being just the basecamp | 09:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | we love plot twists | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: WHO/Europe and ECDC joint press release: World AIDS Day: Concerning number of HIV infections going undiagnosed, new data shows: A new report marking World AIDS [... want %more?] → https://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/press-releases/2021/whoeurope-and-ecdc-joint-press-release-world-aids-day-concerning-number-of-hiv-infections-going-undiagnosed,-new-data-shows | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna CEO warns COVID-19 shots less effective against Omicron, spooks markets → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5iy5q/moderna_ceo_warns_covid19_shots_less_effective/ | 10:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +8305 cases (now 7.7 million) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +50748 cases (now 5.9 million) since 23 hours ago | 10:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pfizer research head envisions a sprint to develop Omicron vaccine, if it’s needed: A top Pfizer executive says the company is hopeful that booster shots will provide sufficient protection against the Omicron variant — but has already [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/11/30/pfizer-research-head-envisions-a-sprint-to-develop-omicron-vaccine-if-its-needed/ | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: EU’s drug regulator: ‘We know that viruses mutate, and we’re prepared’: Following emergence of Omicron variant, EMA chief says contingency plans in place to fast-track approval of modified vaccines. → https://www.politico.eu/article/ema-chief-we-know-that-viruses-mutate-and-were-prepared/ | 11:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Sky News (@SkyNews): Watch as Health Secretary @sajidjavid persuades Sky's chief political correspondent @joncraig to get his booster jab while the pair were preparing for an interview at St Thomas' Hospital vaccination centre.Latest #COVID19 updates: trib.al/HzRldNL pic.twitter.com/KegmBrsQFS → https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1465621122678882311 | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: COVID looms over Biden’s presidency, once more and always: The president’s success in office will be tied to how he handles the pandemic. The emergence of Omicron makes that clear again. → https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/30/covid-biden-presidency-omicron-delta-523497 | 11:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: What happened to our national emergency stockpiles?: In the first half of 2020, Europe, the US, and UK experienced a chronic shortage of personal protective equipment (PPE) and medical apparatus such as ventilators, leading to an overheated global... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2849.short | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Retraction Watch: Journal retracts three papers — including two on COVID-19 — because ‘trainee editor’ committed misconduct: A psychiatry journal has retracted two papers on Covid-19 and mental health, and a third on [... want %more?] → https://retractionwatch.com/2021/11/30/journal-retracts-three-papers-including-two-on-covid-19-because-trainee-editor-committed-misconduct/ | 12:10 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.who.int: Update on Omicron | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: Immunogen study achieves primary goal of shrinking tumors in patients with ovarian cancer: An antibody treatment that delivers a targeted dose of chemotherapy directly to cancer cells achieved the primary goal of a [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/11/30/immunogen-study-achieves-primary-goal-of-shrinking-tumors-in-patients-with-ovarian-cancer/ | 12:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:48 |
| joerg | ^^^ >>Script for downloading the CSV file into “R” software<< :-D | 12:51 |
| de-facto | .title https://antigentest.bfarm.de/ords/f?p=ANTIGENTESTS-AUF-SARS-COV-2:TESTS-ZUR-EIGENANWENDUNG-DURCH-LAIEN:6375919556371:::::&tz=1:00 | 13:07 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From antigentest.bfarm.de: Liste der Antigen-Tests zur professionellen Anwendung zum direkten Erregernachweis des Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 | 13:07 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/dossier/coronavirus/testsysteme.html | 13:07 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.pei.de: Paul-Ehrlich-Institut - Coronavirus und COVID-19 - SARS-CoV-2-Testsysteme | 13:07 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> ".title https://www.who.int/news..." <- More or less seems to say "Some potentially bad signals but too early to tell" | 13:08 |
| Dredd | I saw some rumblings about Biden forcing a patent waiver? | 13:09 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.44.2100441 | 13:11 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance | Comparative sensitivity evaluation for 122 CE-marked rapid diagnostic tests for SARS-CoV-2 antigen, Germany, September 2020 to April 2021 | 13:11 |
| de-facto | Dredd, yeah too early to tell, yet a good summary imho | 13:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA: The downloadable data files contain information on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA. The data are presented in the Vaccine Tracker and collected through The European Surveillance System (TESSy). → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-covid-19-vaccination-eu-eea | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: How significant is the Ventavia scandal?: The behaviour of Ventavia in relation to Pfizer’s covid-19 vaccine1 is serious and demands a full investigation, either by the US Food and Drug Administration or the World Health Organization. The... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2953.short | 13:25 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "Peter, yeah too early to tell..." <- Two days old though which is like ancient history on the omicron timescale 😀 | 13:26 |
| de-facto | well yeah but what do we know in addition to that today? | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): And 2/2:• Share of patients in ICU currently much lower than same stage of Delta wave, but may change if cases spread from being mainly young. Or may not, which would suggest T and B cells kicking in 🤞• Please follow people on the ground incl [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1465659961363640320 | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +245 cases (now 821366), +2 deaths (now 11526), +4329 tests (now 4.6 million) since a day ago | 13:37 |
| tomathy | shouldn't there just be one vaccines for one virus? the scientific community is failing | 13:38 |
| tomathy | i was going to get my booster but then a new varient comes out, so what's the point | 13:39 |
| tomathy | they should have used non-vaxxers in tests and studies and stuff, make use of them rather than slander them | 13:40 |
| tomathy | they are probably the only ones building immunity | 13:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): The beauty of technology: tonight, join myself, @ProfVolkerThiel, @C_Althaus, & @marcelsalathe for a chat about what we know - & don't know - about Omicron, variants, & the pandemic outlook.6pm CET; 12pm US eastern#openscience! twitter.com/nrp78_covid19/… → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1465660609681408003 | 13:44 |
| de-facto | if non-vaxxers would be the only one building immunity, what else would explain the statistics for vaccine efficacy, e.g. 5-10 fold lowered risk for fully vaccinated compared to non-vaccinated (for symptoms or hospitalizations etc)? | 13:58 |
| de-facto | the point of vaccination is to introduce the immune system to the antigen (s-protein in this case) in a controlled way so it would not freak out later when its challenged with the wild type pathogen | 13:58 |
| de-facto | primarily a selfish point of the own protection against potential severe progression | 13:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cayman Is.: +336 cases (now 7074), +1 deaths (now 5), +2069 tests (now 204495) since 3 days ago | 14:02 |
| joerg | tomathy: your comments sound weird | 14:07 |
| joerg | for the >>shouldn't there be one...<< several groups/entites started R&D on several different approaches to a vaccine, and we were haüüy already more than one succeeded to come up with a working vaccine. I can't see any "failure of scientific community" | 14:09 |
| joerg | happy, too | 14:09 |
| joerg | and lucky | 14:10 |
| Dredd | <tomathy> "shouldn't there just be one..." <- That's not really how it works. Not even with flu jabs | 14:10 |
| Dredd | <tomathy> "i was going to get my booster..." <- Some protection is better than none | 14:10 |
| Dredd | <tomathy> "i was going to get my booster..." <- Eh? Don't follow this | 14:11 |
| Dredd | <tomathy> "they are probably the only..." <- No that isn't how it works | 14:11 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "the point of vaccination is to..." <- Might be better to say "Introduce the immune system to the virus in a safe way" or something because not everyone will get what antigen or s-protein mean? Or wild type pathogen | 14:12 |
| Dredd | I mean they are somewhat technical words but in the aim of maximum communication I prefer to use the simplest possible explanation that will do | 14:13 |
| joerg | moin Dredd | 14:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron COVID variant was in Europe before South African scientists detected and flagged it to the world → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5mugh/omicron_covid_variant_was_in_europe_before_south/ | 14:21 |
| joerg | hmm, another one who leaves since they didn't receive the positive feedback to their ideas they hoped for? | 14:24 |
| Dredd | joerg: hey | 14:27 |
| joerg | >>i was going to get my booster but then a new varient comes out, so what's the point<< seems a common sentiment, based on a misguided concept about boosters, vaccination and what all that means in context of Omicron. A booster is the sharpest sword we got so far against Omicron, since with a booster you are 20 times better protected than after your 2nd jab, and you have a protection against Omicron after booster that is better than your protection against | 14:29 |
| joerg | any variant after just 2 jabs | 14:29 |
| joerg | I'm a bit speculating here, but based on very educated assumtions | 14:31 |
| Dredd | And there's effectively no downside | 14:31 |
| joerg | that too | 14:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Omicron variant 'highly infectious' and booster jabs may need 'double' dose, says Moderna CEO → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5mzcv/covid19_omicron_variant_highly_infectious_and/ | 14:31 |
| Dredd | Dose a double dose mean double profit 😛 ? | 14:33 |
| joerg | that's interesting, is this a 50%-booster-dose * 2, or is that a normal moderna dose * 2? | 14:36 |
| joerg | I was already wondering why Moderna, unlike BNT, reduced dose for booster by half | 14:37 |
| joerg | now they say 200%, I wonder based on which reference | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +3661 cases (now 1.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Bangladesh: +273 cases (now 1.6 million), +1 deaths (now 27981), +19802 tests (now 10.9 million) since a day ago | 14:39 |
| Dredd | I wonder if they did it to sell a fixed volume for effectively twice as much 😀 | 14:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Johnson&Johnson: (news): Johnson & Johnson Discussions to License its COVID-19 Vaccine to Aspen Reach Advanced Stage → https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-discussions-to-license-its-covid-19-vaccine-to-aspen-reach-advanced-stage | 14:41 |
| joerg | Moderna seems a tad... competitife, to put it politely, stating >>Within 95 days...<< after BNT already said "100 days". I mean NINETYFIVE? dezimal zero? | 14:42 |
| joerg | s/f/v/ | 14:42 |
| joerg | do they use express email to achieve that speed advantage? | 14:43 |
| joerg | aaaaaaaah! >>"We've lowered the dose of a booster of a current vaccine, and so we have a lot of safety data showing that we could go back to a higher microgram dose at double the dose of a current vaccine, which should provide better protection than the third dose booster at 50 micrograms," he said.<< | 14:46 |
| * joerg should have gone for the extra effort to get BNT booster, instead damn Moderna :-S | 14:46 | |
| joerg | wait, I got BNT :-D | 14:48 |
| eternalbooks[m] | Defeat Corona Virus COVID With The Help Of God & Religions By Unlock Sacred Scriptures | 14:48 |
| eternalbooks[m] | https://eternalsacredbooks.wordpress.com/2021/11/30/defeat-corona-virus-covid-with-the-help-of-god-religions-by-unlock-sacred-scriptures/ | 14:48 |
| joerg | chanops: could you please set a ban on eternalbooks*!*@* ? | 14:49 |
| joerg | I guessx we get tired of this recurring spamming | 14:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): By losing commercial airplanes, we lose access to the importation of important reagents, medicine, vaccines, PPEs but also lose the most important exports such as gold, diamond, citrus, wine which sustain our struggling economy! → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1465678889762660353 | 14:51 |
| Dredd | <joerg> "wait, I got BNT :-D" <- Ha ha, I got BNT too | 14:56 |
| Dredd | On the matrix side I can satisfyingly delete their messages 😛 | 14:57 |
| joerg | Dredd: actually I was like "I'd prefer Moderna but that isn't available in next vax station, only at a place 6km away, so well, doesn't matter, gimme BNT". Now I'm happy about that laziness :-)) | 15:02 |
| joerg | bad news for a friend who got AZ+M+M | 15:04 |
| joerg | re Tuliodna ^^^ - it's a real pity and a shame how SA gets mistreated now | 15:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Regkirona, regdanvimab, COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 12/11/2021, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/regkirona | 15:10 |
| joerg | some unrelated numbers: Germany last week 1.8mio PCR tests, 20% positive | 15:10 |
| joerg | labs at limit | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Moderna CEO cautions Covid shots will be less effective against Omicron; Pfizer predicts new vaccine for the variant in 100 days → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2021/11/30/covid19-vaccine-omicron-pfizer-moderna-regeneron-patents-mcdonalds/ | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The antigenic drift posed by Omicron, more substantial than Beta, will likely affect the immune response. But there are many ways to counter—High, broader neutralizing antibodies (3rd dose💉)—Omicron-specific & pan-sarbecovirus vaccines —Pills, activity [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465687958841819139 | 15:29 |
| joerg | related: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108453 | 15:36 |
| joerg | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome%E2%80%93related_coronavirus >>The SARSr-CoV species is a member of the genus Betacoronavirus and of the subgenus Sarbecovirus<< TIL | 15:38 |
| genera | well Sarbecovirus means SARS beta corona, so no new information ^^ | 15:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The current global vaccine inequity status, summarizedft.com/content/0cea5e… @hannahkuchler @donatopmancini @davidpilling @FT @OurWorldInData pic.twitter.com/8HU9BYlr9d → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465689498100981763 | 15:39 |
| joerg | genera: well, new to me | 15:40 |
| genera | ok! | 15:40 |
| joerg | ok, should have known http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/search?q=sarbeco%28%3Fi%29 | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Olaf Scholz wants mandatory coronavirus vaccination for Germans by February → https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-wants-mandatory-vaccination-for-germans-by-february/ | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): Does S-gene-drop-out (SGTF) always mean Omicron? Really important: no! The deletion (S:60/70del) causing this has popped up many times in SARS-CoV-2, including in Delta!Great thread by @alliblk!Impt to check with sequencing, especially if no clear link to [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1465696924900593664 | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Omicron variant in Netherlands earlier than thought: The new Covid-19 variant is found in Dutch samples taken before it was reported by South Africa. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59473131 | 16:18 |
| joerg | no surprise, really | 16:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Actively Working to Investigate, Address Potential Impacts of Omicron Variant; Urges Vaccination and Boosters → http://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-actively-working-investigate-address-potential-impacts-omicron | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +4068 cases (now 1.8 million), +35 deaths (now 29724) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +43231 cases (now 10.2 million), +36 deaths (now 145254) since 23 hours ago | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germany's soon-to-be new chancellor Olaf Scholz reported to introduce a national vaccination mandate → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5pz7m/germanys_soontobe_new_chancellor_olaf_scholz/ | 16:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Another reason for optimism: the T cell response to vaccines is far less influenced by variants, and is tied to protection from severe illness. The reason why the @BioNTech_Group statement here may well turn out to be truewsj.com/articles/omicr… by @bopanc [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465717942914465796 | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Swiss consider tightening anti-coronavirus restrictions amid rise in cases → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/swiss-consider-tightening-anti-coronavirus-restrictions-amid-rise-in-cases-7649646/ | 17:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why is the United States failing to contain Covid?It's not because of any lack of tools or science.It's this stuff, without any aggressive counter and takedown #hallofshamefloridaphoenix.com/2021/11/11/a-r… via @PeterHotez washingtonpost.com/media/2021/11/… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465724121979834372 | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): Starting now - join us! twitter.com/nrp78_covid19/… → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1465727531085094920 | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: EU could approve shot against new coronavirus variant in 3-4 months → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/eu-vaccine-covid-variant-omicron-7649654/ | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +22183 cases (now 2.7 million), +65 deaths (now 19863) since 17 hours ago — Italy: +12757 cases (now 5.0 million), +89 deaths (now 133828), +719972 tests (now 119.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Russian coronavirus-denying monk given prison sentence → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/russian-coronavirus-denying-monk-given-prison-sentence-7649667/ | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Greece mandates Covid-19 vaccinations for residents over 60 → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/greece-covid-vaccinations-residents-7649696/ | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Four days of week-on-week case drops.Conceivable to think that, in the short term at least, the emergence of Omicron might actually help drive cases down lower still, given behavioural changes, big push on vaccines and government rule changes. Even [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1465737458151211010 | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Moderna Warns of ‘Material Drop’ in Vaccine Efficacy Against Omicron: The Moderna CEO says existing COVID-19 vaccines will likely be less effective against the new Omicron variant. → https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211130/moderna-warns-material-drop-vaccine-efficacy-omicron | 19:01 |
| aradesh | do we know how they'll name coronavirus strains once they run out of greek letters? | 19:02 |
| Dredd | I'm assuming we'll move on to classes of subatomic particle | 19:04 |
| Dredd | Or wavelengths of light 😀 | 19:05 |
| Dredd | s/particle/particles/ | 19:05 |
| aradesh | seems they're considering star constellations: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/variants-could-named-star-constellations-greek-alphabet-runs/ | 19:05 |
| Dredd | loool | 19:05 |
| aradesh | i wonder if coronavirus is now the most well-studied virus in the world | 19:05 |
| Dredd | I was joking.... at first | 19:05 |
| p0indexter | how bout the andromeda strain | 19:08 |
| Dredd | 😀 | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: After lifting all COVID restrictions on the 25th of September, Norway imposes new restrictions after infections reach all time high → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5syeu/after_lifting_all_covid_restrictions_on_the_25th/ | 19:10 |
| Dredd | I guess people can't use Norway as an example of why you don't need any measures anymore | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): So much speculation about SARS2 somehow becoming "more mild".Don't think so friend. Let's think about WHY a virus would do this.Why would a virus attenuate itself? Thread... → https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1465743112890769411 | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: nCoV-2019 Genomic Epidemiology: Report on Omicron Spike mutations on epitopes and immunological/epidemiological/kinetics effects from literature → https://virological.org/t/report-on-omicron-spike-mutations-on-epitopes-and-immunological-epidemiological-kinetics-effects-from-literature/770 | 19:49 |
| tomathy | so should i still get booster if omicron is out? | 19:52 |
| aann | yes | 19:55 |
| Dredd | yes | 19:56 |
| Dredd | Unless you have a very compelling reason not to | 19:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Retraction Watch: Abstract linking COVID-19 vaccines to heart trouble risk earns expression of concern: A leading heart journal has issued an expression of concern for a meeting abstract it published earlier this year by a cardiac surgeon [... want %more?] → https://retractionwatch.com/2021/11/30/abstract-linking-covid-19-vaccines-to-heart-trouble-risk-earns-expression-of-concern/ | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): 40) Er zijn geen bewijzen dat infecte (natuurlijk is een antivax trope, vaccinatie of infectie geven dezelfde “naruurlijke” reactie) beter is, maar wel dat het meer heterogeen en minder goed is. pic.twitter.com/LQWtCTwFsx → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1465763180307697669 | 20:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): 52) vaccinaties zijn velig 4jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1465763925660680193 | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +40722 cases (now 10.3 million), +160 deaths (now 145413) since 19 hours ago | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Hi, no need to overreact! I just saying that my colleagues @rid1tweets @sugan2503 @Rajeev_The_Kin are so good to get the epidemic data from SA that they can do this job for me so I can concentrate on other things. E.g. @rid1tweets please show numbers in [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1465770409492717572 | 20:56 |
| joerg | tolecnal[m]: please see http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/__covid-19.2021-11-30.log.html#t2021-11-30T14:29:11 | 21:03 |
| joerg | damn, sorry | 21:04 |
| joerg | was meant for tomathy who already left again | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: COVID-19 Disparities Widened by Underlying Issues, Lack of Access to Care: A recent study attributed COVID-19 morbidity and mortality disparities to “upstream issues” such as underlying conditions and lack of access to testing and care. → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/covid-19-disparities-widened-by-underlying-issues-lack-of-access-to-care | 21:05 |
| joerg | could anybody help me out with detail info about 3M AURA masks, please? I don't get it what's the difference (except in price and label) between 1863+ https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/v000125642/ and 9330+ https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/v101158114/ | 21:07 |
| joerg | 3M made datasheets "conveniently" different to defeat direct compare | 21:09 |
| ndn[m] | joerg: https://thefacemaskstore.co.uk/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-3m-9330-and-3m-1863-face-mask-respirator/ | 21:17 |
| joerg | wow | 21:28 |
| joerg | many thanks | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +47197 cases (now 7.8 million), +115 deaths (now 120112) since 23 hours ago — Spain: +10261 cases (now 5.2 million), +44 deaths (now 88052) since a day ago | 21:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Nothing definitive: butCOVID: First signs that vaccine protects against Omicron – health ministerm.jpost.com/health-and-wel… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1465780533724688385 | 21:34 |
| LjL | ndn[m], interesting. do you think that also means they won't lose efficacy with rain? | 21:35 |
| LjL | also hey yall i have a booster booked for sunday | 21:35 |
| ndn[m] | LjL: i've no idea, but speculating - its listed as rated vs pressure (16kPa), so i'd assume its for a few 'fluid' events only rather than saturation | 21:41 |
| joerg | LjL: as I read it, it means exactly this: relatively immune to water | 21:41 |
| LjL | hmm | 21:41 |
| joerg | of course not soaking wet | 21:41 |
| joerg | raher the point is, I shouldn't get soaked | 21:43 |
| joerg | if water could get in, it could transport pathogens through the filter, which is why I think it will simply repell water by some sort of impregnation | 21:48 |
| ndn[m] | sounds very wishful | 21:48 |
| joerg | nah, they even listed the jet pressure it can cope with, which is exactly what you also find for example on goretex etc | 21:49 |
| joerg | >>...and are splash-resistant (kPa ≥ 16.0)<< | 21:52 |
| ndn[m] | i'd guess its more a function of the weave and its ability to withstand perturbation, but again... total speculation | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Irish tighten pandemic controls on passengers, including from Britain: Those traveling by air or sea to Ireland must show negative tests to avoid renewed quarantine, even if they have been fully vaccinated. → https://www.politico.eu/article/irish-tighten-pandemic-controls-on-passengers-including-from-britain/ | 21:53 |
| ndn[m] | wouldnt need to guess if people weren't charging £100 for pdfs of the standard | 21:53 |
| joerg | whatever the effect that causes water at a pressure of "kPa ≥ 16.0" to not get in, it is not limited to singulary events by spec | 21:54 |
| joerg | which in my book spells "rain repellant" | 21:55 |
| joerg | %tr <de Resistent gegen Flüssigkeitsspritzer. https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/v000125642/ | 21:57 |
| Brainstorm | joerg, German to English: Resistant to liquid splashes. https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/v000125642/ (MyMemory, Google) | 21:57 |
| joerg | (unlimited number of...) | 21:58 |
| joerg | you probably still shouldn't wear it under the shower ;-) | 21:59 |
| joerg | particularly I'd guess it's not prepared to cope with water getting into the mask between mask and skin | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): coronaviruses will pick up 162 mutations in 30 cycles, compared to their usual rate of 23 after 250 passages without drug, while reaching titers AS HIGH AS untreated virus (Fig 6 below)! If you do the math, that's about a 50-fold increase in rate. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1465785891993972737 | 22:02 |
| joerg | my draeger X-plore 1730 are _not_ EN 14683 IIR approved, I just held one under the water tap and it soaked immediately. I guess this is the difference to IIR like 1863+ | 22:07 |
| ndn[m] | bet you a replacement mask that a IIR would soak as well | 22:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Weak immune systems tied to more COVID-19 breakthrough infections: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Nov 30, 2021 Those with compromised immune systems get COVID-19 after vaccination 3 times more often—but still rarely—a new [... want %more?] → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/weak-immune-systems-tied-more-covid-19-breakthrough-infections | 22:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): if you perform short pulses of nonlethal mutagenesis on SARSCoV2 in people with immune systems, within a population of people not taking the drug, the exact environment for accelerating evolution of immunoevasion. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1465790653145620480 | 22:21 |
| lastshell | how the end of the world is going | 22:22 |
| ndn[m] | joerg: https://www.nelsonlabs.com/testing/synthetic-blood-penetration/ | 22:22 |
| ndn[m] | a lot of labs that i could find by searching for the splash test itself mention synthetic blood pen test for this particular standard | 22:23 |
| joerg | well, 3M itself just says "resistant against liquid splashes" - not specifying any limitations to the sort of liquid | 22:29 |
| joerg | since a meaning of "a particular specific liquid only" wouldn't make any sense without telling _which_ liquid, this only can be read as "all liquids" | 22:30 |
| joerg | it's probably fair to assume water-based liquids | 22:31 |
| joerg | not solvents, acids etc | 22:31 |
| lastshell | I got 3M n95 masks for some family member that is going to travel sadly | 22:32 |
| joerg | also detergent-enriched watery liquids are most likely not covered by this | 22:32 |
| joerg | using synthetic blood is a particularly tough test setup, compared to plain (distilled) rain water | 22:34 |
| ndn[m] | i mean, it's more viscous... so it's probably a more lenient test than using water. which matches my expectation of getting away with the bare minimum you can at every turn | 22:36 |
| ndn[m] | kinda why these standards exist, the cat and mouse game | 22:37 |
| joerg | one of the documents/webpages I rwad am hour ago explicitly mentioned dentist and splashes from mounth, obviously unspecified mix of water, blood, and saliva | 22:37 |
| lastshell | jorg, I knew 2 dentists that die of covid last year | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): First, they show the inhibition curves. So as before with other coronaviruses, molnupiravir doesn't kill all SARSCoV2 through a wide concentration range. But it shows some activity, so clearly plenty of mutagenesis is going on at those [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1465796741291122692 | 22:41 |
| joerg | I seen quite a number of emergency room / ISU doctors that wear AURA 1863+ - that's why I asked about the difference, to start with. I'm pretty sure if they heard the mask only protects from blodd splashes, they would use a different better brand | 22:42 |
| joerg | s/ISU/ICU/ | 22:42 |
| ndn[m] | i would expect to see retailers giving the most loose interpretations of the test on the details of the product, and test providers - who are courting the business of mask manufacturers - to give definitions that are most generous to the products meeting a particular standard | 22:43 |
| ndn[m] | well, blood and bodily fluid... mentioned at the bottom of the page i linked | 22:43 |
| joerg | as I said: 3M themselves say >>Resistant to liquid splashes. https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/v000125642/ (MyMemory, Google)<< | 22:44 |
| ndn[m] | >The surface tension range for blood and body fluids is approximately 42 – 60 dynes/cm. To simulate the wetting characteristics, the synthetic blood is adjusted to the lower end of this range (40 ± 5 dynes/cm). | 22:44 |
| ndn[m] | yeah and 3M are trying to sell to us | 22:45 |
| joerg | they also succeed to sell to professionals | 22:45 |
| ndn[m] | as long as they got their cert and aren't explicitly lying they can let you presume what you want | 22:45 |
| joerg | meh, this leads nowhere, sorry for the messy confusion LjL | 22:45 |
| joerg | LjL: I seen 1863+ in the face of every ICU doctor they portraied in TV | 22:46 |
| joerg | LjL: 3M website says "liquid resistant" | 22:47 |
| joerg | if you need higher degree of rain resistance, maybe get a full mask respirator. Or a diving mask ;-) | 22:48 |
| lastshell | for airplane travel the 3m are ok joerg ? | 22:49 |
| ndn[m] | or just wear a face shield over top | 22:49 |
| joerg | well, as far as airplane travel is any ok, the masks are, absolutely | 22:49 |
| lastshell | thank you | 22:49 |
| joerg | FFP3 variant, that is | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China's Xi pledges another 1 bln COVID-19 vaccine doses for Africa → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r5y3sy/chinas_xi_pledges_another_1_bln_covid19_vaccine/ | 22:50 |
| joerg | you need to exactly follow the instruction manual, particularly about checking tight fit | 22:50 |
| joerg | I frequently read in the specs fineprint stuff that is like, if the mask were a sunblocker, it were factor 30, means you may stay 30 times as long in a place and stay safe, than without a mask | 22:56 |
| joerg | lastshell: re travel by airplane, I'm much less concerned about the airplane in flight, you know, if only since I used airplanes when there still was smoking allowed so I have a pretty good idea about the air circulation. Much worse is airplane in parking, boarding and leaving, and the whole shuttlebus transportation to and from airplane | 23:04 |
| joerg | as well as airplane toilet | 23:05 |
| joerg | the latter pretty identical to the elevator and corona topic | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Much remains unknown about #Omicron. Initial reports suggest it is not dramatic. That doesn't mean it is not dangerous! But, we can be certain of some things:Not having a vaccine: No protection!Having 2 dosages; likely good protection.A booster: even better protection! → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1465805546947321862 | 23:18 |
| ndn[m] | ahh yes of course. no protection. | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: FDA panel narrowly recommends authorization of Merck Covid pill after day of tense discussion: A panel of experts convened by the FDA voted by a slim margin to recommend the agency authorize the Covid treatment developed by [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/11/30/fda-panel-narrowly-recommends-authorization-of-merck-covid-pill-after-day-of-tense-discussion/ | 23:28 |
| Arsanerit | I wonder if our 3M Aura™ 9320D+ EN 149:2001 FFP2 NR D CE 2797 is real or counterfeit. 3M does not offer their 3M Safe Guard™ system for this model. | 23:32 |
| Arsanerit | Is there any circumstance in which a face shield is of any use? | 23:32 |
| de-facto | avoiding droplets in close proximity to land on your eyes mucus for example? | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +7751 cases (now 34.6 million), +76 deaths (now 469056) since 18 hours ago | 23:35 |
| de-facto | also redirecting direct aerosol streams directed towards the face? | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New data to show that Paxlovid (the Pfizer anti-Covid pill) overrides concerns about variants doi.org/10.1101/2021.1… pic.twitter.com/YZdXgbLkQe → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465810045577281537 | 23:37 |
| LjL | joerg, honestly i don't even use the Auras except in situations i consider very high-risk, because i don't know, we're not all the same, the Aura feels *really* uncomfortable to me, precisely because it's so well-sealing. after my 2nd vaccine shot, i actually started embarrassingly dripping water from my chin, because that's how humid it was inside my Aura | 23:40 |
| LjL | and that can't be good for the mask either | 23:40 |
| LjL | maybe it's because i easily get anxious and breathe faster, i don't know | 23:41 |
| LjL | anyway i normally use some korean KF94 that seem a decent compromise between fit and comfort | 23:41 |
| LjL | and i use a cotton mask when outside | 23:41 |
| LjL | de-facto uses an Aura all day at work, and if he can bear it, more power to him, but i couldn't | 23:41 |
| LjL | i can keep it on for an hour, and it's a stretch | 23:42 |
| de-facto | yeah its fine to me, actually i thought its quite easy to breathe through the 3M 9330+ series compared to other FFP3 with more dense filters | 23:44 |
| LjL | ugh today i forgot to spray carrageenan, it may be placebo but i feel safer spraying it before and after going out, and if i forget, i labor on the thought of "what if it would have saved me but instead now i caught it just because i forgot" | 23:45 |
| de-facto | my problem is more that its slightly too small for my face, so when i speak to people i constantly have to pull it around my chin again | 23:45 |
| LjL | (but maybe i shouldn't explain my strange mental processes in such detail on a public channel :P) | 23:45 |
| LjL | de-facto, i've never actually used an FFP3, only FFP2 | 23:45 |
| de-facto | i bought some before winter 20/21 also for my parents, just for the high risk situations | 23:46 |
| de-facto | now did it again with the 3M ones, i used one of them so far :P | 23:46 |
| LjL | i suspect 95% (:P) of the difference is made by the fit, rather than P2 vs P3 | 23:46 |
| de-facto | yeah the fit is part of the certification afaik | 23:46 |
| LjL | so in high-risk situations i just use Auras, they are FFP2 but i assume they're much better than *other* FFP2 | 23:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The first anti-Covid pill gets recommended to @US_FDA for EUA. Narrowly (13-10 vote), because the efficacy was modest, substantially less than the interim analysis first reportedwashingtonpost.com/health/2021/11… @Carolynyjohnson pic.twitter.com/ULGl4WCeVT → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1465811793721188356 | 23:47 |
| de-facto | but also the filters are quite important, the more efficiently they filter the less dense (in terms of air resistance) they would have to be | 23:47 |
| LjL | it's not part of N95 certification. it IS part of KN95 certification, and yet, look at actual KN95s... | 23:47 |
| de-facto | yes i assume the same, the Auras got very good fit | 23:47 |
| dTal | ...carageenan? | 23:49 |
| LjL | dTal, yeah it's an old thing from a study they did in Argentina, which honestly might have involved a bribe from carrageenan spray makers for all i know... anyway, carrageenan spray is approved as an OTC drug for treating colds, and this study involved a small number (3 digits) of hospital workers spraying it three times a day, with a control group that didn't. they found an efficacy of 80% in preventing COVID | 23:51 |
| LjL | then i never heard anything about it again, so take it for what it is | 23:51 |
| LjL | but this spray is inexpensive, presumably safe, so... | 23:51 |
| LjL | and there *are*, i believe, decent enough studies that it shortens the length of cold-type things (if not very significantly) | 23:52 |
| dTal | so it's basically artificial snot? | 23:52 |
| LjL | heh in a sense | 23:53 |
| de-facto | are you exposed to high risk scenarios? | 23:53 |
| LjL | but it's not... snotty | 23:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, not really | 23:53 |
| LjL | if you're saying the study result may not translate to my situation... sure | 23:53 |
| LjL | but i doubt it can make things *worse* at least | 23:53 |
| LjL | also i wish i could spell carrageenan | 23:54 |
| dTal | I trust my P3 respirator in "risky" situations | 23:54 |
| LjL | well it's not either/or | 23:54 |
| LjL | i spray the thing and then i also wear a mask | 23:54 |
| dTal | sounds kinda OTT to me | 23:54 |
| LjL | it's interesting i seem to have this study on *neither* of my collections | 23:54 |
| dTal | but who am I to say | 23:54 |
| LjL | dTal, OTT? | 23:54 |
| dTal | Over The Top | 23:55 |
| LjL | dTal, it's a cheap cold spray with no known side effects | 23:55 |
| LjL | i'm not exactly injecting bleach | 23:55 |
| de-facto | nope thats for the orange man to become white again :P | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: FDA panel recommends molnupiravir, first pill for COVID-19: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Nov 30, 2021 Merck's pill is on track to be the first approved treatment for COVID-19 infections. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/11/fda-panel-recommends-molnupiravir-first-pill-covid-19 | 23:56 |
| dTal | I'm not saying it's harmful, just that the marginal benefit on top of a proper respirator is unlikely to be worth the trouble | 23:56 |
| LjL | dTal, this is the study https://www.dovepress.com/efficacy-of-a-nasal-spray-containing-iota-carrageenan-in-the-postexpos-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IJGM | 23:56 |
| dTal | I take it the hospital personnel weren't religiously wearing respirators | 23:57 |
| LjL | dTal, well you are convinced that your respirator offers a nearly 100% protection while you wear it. i am not convinced of that thing, and i have also found that i can't wear an Aura for a long period of time. if this study is accurate (big if, admittedly), 80% protection "for free" isn't something i want to say no to | 23:57 |
| dTal | I'm almost certainly speaking from motivaated reasoning here; I have no desire to start spraying carageenan :P | 23:58 |
| LjL | let's put it this way: i have tenuous evidence that this thing has a 80% reduction in COVID rates when exposed. do you even have a relevant risk ratio estimate for your respirator? | 23:58 |
| dTal | but, that's very interesting and thank you for bringing my attention to it | 23:58 |
| LjL | as in something more scientific than "nearly 100% because i am convinced of it" | 23:58 |
| dTal | alright alright | 23:59 |
| LjL | dTal, well if you think it may have more side effects than disclosed, and you don't want to use it, fine, it's true, medications have side effects, and sometimes they're underestimated, so i'm not going to tell you what's on your own risk/benefit plate | 23:59 |
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