| * joerg wonders if lowering Rt generally would actually increase selection pressure in favor of higher_Rt variants | 00:04 | |
| joerg | would Rt_a=1.5 Rt_b=2.5 give B an advantage compared to Rt_a=3 Rt_b=5 ? | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | my guts feeling says no, but guts don't know statistical effects | 00:19 |
| LjL-Matrix | joerg: I guess it's more complicated than just their R's. Let's say that we have two variants, one that only transmits in big droplets no further than 2m, but when you inhale a droplet it's extremely efficient in replicating; the other is less efficient, but it's thoroughly airborne and propagates much further. Maybe without distancing, the former would outcompete the latter, but with distancing of >2m, the former will die out while the | 00:23 |
| LjL-Matrix | latter will continue existing | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): So if we take the equation:ICU beds filled = people infected x risk of needing ICU"People infected" could get very big, very quickly, even with lots of vax and prior infection.So race is now on to use third doses to get "risk of requiring ICU" as [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1467270505988251654 | 00:23 |
| LjL-Matrix | (It's just an easy example, I absolutely do not mean that the virus actually ever stopped after 2m!) | 00:23 |
| joerg | I don't think omicron differs in any such "secondary properties" like kind of transmission droplets vs airborne | 00:25 |
| xx | LjL-Matrix: sadly all that talk about 1.5m or 2m got interpreted as "If people stay more than 1.5m from each other, then they don't need any masks, vaccination, handwashing, ..." | 00:25 |
| xx | and most people still believe that | 00:25 |
| xx | politicians too | 00:26 |
| xx | worst of all, scientists and experts are still pushing that nonsense | 00:26 |
| xx | they think a virus is like a lead bullet, it just falls to the ground immediatelly | 00:26 |
| LjL-Matrix | Yes it's pretty annoying. Hence I wanted to clarify that it was a theoretical example to make things simple but I don't want to fuel that actual train of thought | 00:28 |
| LjL-Matrix | Like, you can have two variants with different propagation characteristics. Neither will probably have one that says "I drop dead after 2m", but it's easier to model that way | 00:29 |
| xx | I've seen 800 people packed in a theatre with no air circulation, but having two seats between all of them, hence nobody needed a mask... | 00:29 |
| xx | https://www.who.int/images/default-source/wpro/health-topic/covid-19/slide9208218f5aa844558a55c36ef0f41eb22.jpg | 00:33 |
| xx | is still on the main WHO page... | 00:33 |
| xx | and it's now down to 1m... | 00:33 |
| xx | "It spreads mainly between people who are in close contact with each other, typically within 1 metre." from https://www.who.int/westernpacific/emergencies/covid-19/information/transmission-protective-measures | 00:35 |
| xx | yeah all their infographics are 1m | 00:35 |
| joerg | my epidemiologist confirmed: no difference except in "speed" between the 1.5/2.5 and 3/5 scenarios | 00:35 |
| xx | joerg: sadly most epidemiologists have no idea what they are talking about, they are just rehashing what they learned in textbooks 30 years ago when they were in university and fail to keep up to date with modern science | 00:37 |
| joerg | xx: mind you how long it took until that silly idea about "doctors washing hands" was broadly accepted in medicine, back in the old days | 00:37 |
| xx | in fact, of all the scientists I've met in my life, I only know very few where I can confidently say that they are actually doing science, instead of it being just a job to pay the bills | 00:38 |
| LjL | xx, i think the WHO has always been 1m, hence Italy has always been 1m. other countries were a bit more conservative with 2m or 2.5m or so | 00:38 |
| LjL | yes it was always dumb | 00:39 |
| LjL | just like the WHO's initial "don't wear masks"... okay okay i'm boring | 00:39 |
| joerg | xx: ok, please provide support for your thesis, what in most recent science changed regarding infection dynamic in a scenario with two competing variants? | 00:39 |
| joerg | no handwaving! | 00:39 |
| LjL | joerg, i think xx was just talking about the 2m-or-similar guideline being interpreted very literally as "there's no risk as long as you're further away than 2m", not our actual two-variant scenario | 00:41 |
| joerg | this is a really very generic problem that for all I could tell didn't change a milli during last 100 years | 00:41 |
| Dredd | xx: Are you an epidemiologist who does keep up with the latest science? If you aren't then I'm not sure why you think you can accurately judge that? | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australian Army Begins Relocating Covid-Positive Cases to Quarantine Camps → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r91ybi/australian_army_begins_relocating_covidpositive/ | 00:42 |
| Dredd | Well the Reddit comments on that say it's not true with links to more legit media | 00:43 |
| Dredd | 🤦♂️ | 00:43 |
| LjL | that's why you read both the article and the comments :P (or at least why you should, most redditors only read the comments, while people who don't routinely use reddit often just read the article. both flawed ideas! :P) | 00:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | .cases uk | 00:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | .cases usa | 00:45 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: United Kingdom has had 10.5 million confirmed cases (15.8% of all people) and 146001 deaths (1.4% of cases) as of 5 hours ago. 366.1 million tests were done (2.9% positive). 51.0 million were vaccinated (76.8%). +92372 cases, +270 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 00:45 |
| LjL | speaking of a study i just saw on reddit, | 00:45 |
| LjL | %title https://nference.com/publications/YamgzBMAADIAxXym | 00:45 |
| xx | Dredd: have you not seen the failures in messaging/reporting from leading experts in these fields about the whole coronavirus sitation? Experts have failed where "people on reddit" who spent hundreds of hours quickly studying up on it have been right instead. | 00:45 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From nference.com: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 00:45 |
| xx | experts were just waiting for authority figures to provide them with info, instead of actually looking into it themselves | 00:46 |
| LjL | xx, i think you may want to distinguish between the experts that have actually sweated to study this whole thing and sometimes thrown tantrums about the "other" experts, who are more like politicians | 00:46 |
| xx | and that's not science | 00:46 |
| LjL | ... and those | 00:46 |
| sdfgsdfg | there's this new research that mentions it fully evades natural immunity | 00:46 |
| xx | LjL: yeah, you're right, I'm just frustrated about this whole thing where it takes just one "expert" at the very start to effectively create a hoax that will stay with us forever | 00:47 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, if it fully evades natural immunity then i'm not sure there's a way it wouldn't also evade the vaccine | 00:47 |
| xx | see from the vaccine-autism link that we'll never get rid of | 00:47 |
| sdfgsdfg | fk I still have tons of tabs on the german greens party leader, she looks great | 00:47 |
| joerg | eeeew | 00:50 |
| joerg | Kobold | 00:51 |
| joerg | errr Cobalt | 00:52 |
| sdfgsdfg | about the current topic.... look at how governments manipulate the science around marijuana, cuts funding of research etc. And compare that to how Pfizer help fund scientists that advocate boosters at a time we don't even know if they will be helpful | 00:52 |
| Dredd | <xx> "Peter: have you not seen the..." <- Not really, not people who actually have relevant expertise. Just bull shit artists with skills like "health physicist" whatever that is | 00:52 |
| Dredd | <xx> "LjL: yeah, you're right, I'm..." <- Campbell and ivermectin quackery comes to mind | 00:53 |
| joerg | sdfgsdfg: a 20fold increase in antibodies vs same value measuerd after 2. jab is >>we don't even know if they will be helpful<<? | 00:54 |
| Dredd | But again, he has no relevant knowledge. He just calls himself Dr Campbell and people erroneously believe him | 00:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | I think it's not decided if it does provide a partial immunity, just by looking at the statistics | 00:54 |
| Dredd | But those people also believe Alex Jones, so it's not saying much | 00:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | maybe it does, I'd like to see a paper on it, maybe I missed it :) | 00:54 |
| Dredd | <xx> "see from the vaccine-autism link..." <- Yeah, I admit that was a relevant field researcher outright lying | 00:55 |
| Dredd | But it's a very rare event to see that | 00:55 |
| Dredd | Thankfully | 00:55 |
| joerg | I think it must have an effect at least at those poor responders to the 2nd jab | 00:56 |
| joerg | I don't give shit about statistics I didn't fake myself | 00:56 |
| sdfgsdfg | exactly | 00:56 |
| joerg | I trust in lab research and hard numbers | 00:57 |
| Dredd | sdfgsdfg: I still think it's probably worth ramping them up assuming they provide some protection (and that do to the other srains still at least). Since they are relatively well tolerated it doesn't hurt much | 00:57 |
| joerg | like >>20 fold increase of antibodies vs 2nd jab<< | 00:58 |
| joerg | also mind you, we're fighting delta right now at least here in germany | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): Me inserting chart into tweet: "cool that’s the global Covid situation explained in detail"Me with 280 characters at my disposal but no chart: "I’ve made, like, one half-coherent point and I’ve run out of spa" → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1467281400550330369 | 01:01 |
| joerg | and a pro tip for you, re >>how Pfizer help fund scientists that advocate<< any decent study has a mandatory section about sponsoring and conflicting interests | 01:01 |
| LjL | to be fair, that mandatory section has been empty on the Lancet with Daszak's conflict of interest where they had to add a "correction" later | 01:02 |
| LjL | it's not all working right 99.9% of the tim | 01:02 |
| LjL | on the one hand experts aren't all random idiots (although "media experts" and "political experts" may have to be taken separately), on the other hand it's quite true that it's an industry with a lot of money changing hands, and also that many *in* the industry think the scientific publishing industry is rotten | 01:04 |
| xx | Dredd: my main worry (that doesn't have data to support it yet) is that this whole corona situation will irrepairably damage public trust in science in general, in ministries of health and other health authorities (CDC, WHO), in doctors in general (they are just on a payroll of big pharma) and in *all* vaccines. | 01:06 |
| LjL | for example there have been studies, valid studies, on how... *most* studies about nutrition are actually biased due to conflicts of interest with the food industry. which of these two classes of studies do we believe? | 01:06 |
| xx | it would not surprise me if there are now more antivax people who refuse to vaccinate children | 01:06 |
| xx | I mean yeah, "science is to be tested, not trusted" and all that, but even then it would be good if the general public could have trust in experts in fields | 01:07 |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Lindol! Earthquake! 6.6 M tremor, registered by scevent, occurred 23 minutes ago (23:46:42 UTC), during daytime, San Pedro, Philippines (10.86, 121.68), ↓15 km likely felt 410 km away (in San Jose, Sibalom, Patnongon, Hamtic, Bugasong…) by 968500 people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1633317823 (service.geonet.org.nz) | 01:09 | |
| sdfgsdfg | more of those antivaxers are concerned mothers though, we didn't know 0-5 year olds would need boosting. We could at least have babyboosters, tiny dose or something ? | 01:10 |
| LjL | here's an actual doctor who actually left academia because he thought the publishing industry stank, saying the publishing industry stinks, and giving an example of something that he says is common and that obviously happened to him https://youtu.be/WHC1bY_qdQ0?t=926 (then if you want to watch the whole video where he talks about it, feel free, but i find this a poignant example - ignore the title of the video, he's going on a tangent on the timestamp i linked) | 01:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Two new, very good threads to decipher Omicron's story:It's more mild in people who've been vaccinated or had prior Covidtwitter.com/jburnmurdoch/s…Potential for spread >> Delta (which could be mediated by immune evasion w/o invoking more [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467282387591569408 | 01:10 |
| joerg | I guess I should feel blessed then for my confidence in my own judgment on honesty and competence of experts | 01:21 |
| joerg | pretty much same for "news" too | 01:21 |
| joerg | beginner's 101 on media competence: don't trust any news that don't come up in sync on at least 3 independent sources, in case of studies/papers: which are being reviewed and cited by 3 independent *scientists* | 01:29 |
| xx | 101 on media - it's propaganda first, and no idea what second | 01:29 |
| joerg | which doesn't imply the inverse rule is true | 01:30 |
| joerg | xx: so what do you do here? didn't here enough of that propaganda yet? Or do you think irc is no media? | 01:31 |
| xx | joerg: IRC is fun | 01:31 |
| xx | I don't go out much | 01:31 |
| joerg | yeah, I noticed you obsviously think even ##covid-19 is fun | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +41659 cases (now 10.5 million) since 23 hours ago | 01:32 |
| joerg | makes me wonder how fund differs from propaganda for you | 01:34 |
| joerg | -d | 01:34 |
| joerg | IOW it's quite sad to hear you can't filter out any non-propaganda from media, which makes me wonder again: why are you in IRC then? what's the info you get here, for you? | 01:36 |
| xx | there's a difference between news, where you know 100% people are *paid* to spread propaganda, and IRC where people might not do it, or if they do then they do it for free | 01:37 |
| joerg | definitely this channel isn't about fun anyways | 01:37 |
| joerg | well, this idea is pretty unfunded anyway | 01:38 |
| joerg | I know media channels where your >>you know 100% people are *paid* to spread propaganda<< actually applies. Funny enough those are frequently exactly the only media channels people with your mindset listen to, e.g. RussiaToday | 01:40 |
| xx | people with my mindset only consume media channels against their own will | 01:41 |
| joerg | then please refrain from judging on them | 01:41 |
| joerg | you evidently lack any first hand experience | 01:42 |
| * xx shrugs | 01:43 | |
| joerg | >>please make a typical gesture now<< | 01:45 |
| xx | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ? | 01:46 |
| LjL | is this even a discussion? | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health: Early data from South Africa hints Omicron variant may cause less severe Covid, but more research is needed → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/04/omicron-covid19-south-africa-data/ | 01:48 |
| joerg | LjL: prolly not | 01:48 |
| joerg | I just can't ignore statements that summarize to >>I never watch/read/listen any mainstream media since they all are full of lies and propaganda, I get my whole knowledge from alternative sources<< | 01:50 |
| joerg | I actually _can_ ignore those, just not in here | 01:51 |
| xx | uh, where did I mention alternative sources? | 01:53 |
| xx | or even mainstream media? I just said *all media* | 01:53 |
| joerg | you think this sounds any reasonable? does make any sense? | 01:55 |
| xx | not really a discussion for this channel | 01:56 |
| xx | just keep in mind that just because something is propaganda doesn't mean it's fake or lies | 01:56 |
| xx | I'm not a science denier | 01:57 |
| joerg | you can't even tell apart, you don't ever use *any* media. | 01:57 |
| * xx sighs | 01:57 | |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): The source data, which appears to suggest a potential (early days, confounding factors with vaccinated groups and ages) uncoupling with cases and disease severity.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane-d… pic.twitter.com/YUcitEVFex → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1467307054415159304 | 02:43 |
| LjL | Well that's at least less of an anecdote than other things | 02:52 |
| LjL | But if it were due to Omicron it would mean that Omicron was there waaaaaay earlier than it was found | 02:53 |
| LjL | Wait no | 02:53 |
| LjL | Hmm I guess even accounting for delay, compared to the previous wave we should already be seeing heightened mortality that we aren't seeing | 02:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): US hospitalizations are about to hit 60,000 for the second Delta wave, and for the 5th time of the pandemicnewsnodes.com/us pic.twitter.com/RL4fb1NIJv → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467312012233371650 | 03:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +37 cases (now 2.8 million) since 9 hours ago | 03:37 |
| muny | Wondering, is this purely a covid-19 conversation and if it would be reasonable to ask if there are anti-vaxers amongst us ? If not please point me me to a room where this might be acceptable (if you know of one). | 03:44 |
| xx | there probably are anti-vaxers here, we don't check | 03:48 |
| xx | I've become much more lenient towards a certain subgroup of antivaxers of the sort "I got two doses, gov promised that that was the end of it, and now they say a 3rd one is needed, and now the pfitzer ceo said a booster is needed every 6 months, so fuck them I'm not getting any more" | 03:49 |
| xx | at least they have those two doses... | 03:49 |
| Dredd | It's ok to talk about anti-vax views here as long as it's a reasonable and constructive conversation | 03:53 |
| Dredd | That goes for both sides of it 😂 | 03:53 |
| xx | I heard of a young guy who died 30 minutes after receiving the vaccine. He was completely healthy before. | 03:54 |
| xx | He got hit by a bus on his way out of the vaccine centre | 03:54 |
| muny | yeah my problem exactly except I am starting with zero doses, the school where I work are threatening us with unemployment so the stakes are high, but there is a quote something like "“The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.” | 03:54 |
| xx | it's a difficult position to be in, to argue with antivaxx people, exactly because healthy young people overwhelmingly don't need the vaccine, it doesn't prevent infection, it doesn't prevent spreading it onto others and so on. Yes, it decreases likelihood of all that, but it's still a difficult discussion to have. | 03:57 |
| Dredd | <xx> "Peter: my main worry (that doesn..." <- I hope that doesn't happen | 04:00 |
| xx | I'm already seeing signs of that, but as I said I don't have sufficient data to say it definitely is the case | 04:01 |
| Dredd | xx: It doesn't totally stop them but it does have some effect which on a population level is useful. And it has a greater effect on those who would end up unlucky with a severe case of covid | 04:02 |
| xx | yeah, I am not denying the benefits of the vaccine, but at the same time I can't just outright dismiss these antivax arguments when they make them, which makes it harder than it should be | 04:02 |
| muny | Thanks xx and Dredd, I'm not here to convert anyone :) just hoping to find a little support from peers, I only wish the Vax had been advertised thus: "With the vax you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of death, and without the vax you have a 1 in 10,000, choose wisely!" (or whatever the numbers are) but to enforce us regardless of risks and endless vax doses and upgrades? presumably if you skip the 3rd dose you are regarded as unvaxed | 04:02 |
| muny | . | 04:02 |
| LjL | i think it's another case of politicians talking too much when they could shut up instead | 04:02 |
| LjL | the "after two doses we'll see the end of this" thing | 04:03 |
| Dredd | <muny> "yeah my problem exactly except I..." <- Why not get the vaccine? I think the quote also doesn't really fit to well with taking a vaccine in a pandemic 😂 | 04:03 |
| xx | muny: yeah, the marketing around the vaccine was a horrible mistake that has caused a lot of trouble | 04:03 |
| xx | LjL: exactly. So many people just completely dismissed all other rules and suggestions, just because they have received 2 doses and so they think everything is over and done with | 04:04 |
| Dredd | muny: The figures are actually many more zeroes apart. It's complicated though because it varies by individual so the numbers are an average. Also because that way of framing it is about the individuals risk and ignores the effect on others | 04:05 |
| Dredd | I used to not get a flu vaccine and got so fucked up by the flu year after year | 04:06 |
| Dredd | It caused now damage to my lungs and I got more and more susceptible | 04:06 |
| LjL | :( | 04:07 |
| Dredd | I'm now quite diligent with getting the yearly flu vaccine in offered and it makes a huge difference | 04:07 |
| Dredd | It also annoys me when people come into the office coughing and spluttering because they don't feel like they can take time off for the flu (they can) and it disregards the risk for others | 04:08 |
| Dredd | Thankfully the overall ability to deal with the flu is much better in our population then covid | 04:08 |
| muny | I have a really good job, and decent pay, and I have been there nearly 20 years, I am well like and well regarded by my employer so to have them say. "No Vax No Job" seems very unfair from where I ' standing, I am just asking for more time to consider the side effect and longer term. - I am healthy at nearly 60 years old and take not medication whatsoever. | 04:08 |
| LjL | i suspect when it's an *actual flu*, they'll be stuck in bed no matter how much they want to go to work | 04:08 |
| xx | well now they come into the office coughing and spluttering, because they are vaxxed and so it can't be covid... | 04:08 |
| Dredd | In a few years that will hopefully be the case with COVID too and only those vulnerable will need new vaccines | 04:09 |
| LjL | xx, he's talking about the flu | 04:09 |
| Dredd | LjL: Some people aren't totally knocked off their feet by something that destroys me 😂 | 04:09 |
| xx | meh, same deal for any respiratory disease, they might as well be vaxxed against the flu, but still come in with coughing and sneezing | 04:09 |
| muny | lunch is is on the table .. I will return. - stay well | 04:09 |
| LjL | the flu vaccine has an efficacy that varies widely depending on the year | 04:10 |
| LjL | somewhere between 10% and 60% | 04:10 |
| Dredd | muny: It's been a year now, they work exactly the same way as previous vaccines in their effect and billions of doses have been given | 04:11 |
| Dredd | LjL: I suspect I get more from it since even a little boost is useful | 04:11 |
| xx | I still wonder if we'll have killed flu-b that only has humans as reservoir | 04:11 |
| LjL | Dredd, possible | 04:11 |
| Dredd | I thought the standard figure was about 50% | 04:12 |
| LjL | xx, actually, well we didn't, but a strain likely went extinct in 2012 | 04:12 |
| LjL | err 2021 | 04:12 |
| LjL | Dredd, as an average maybe, but what i'm saying is there's a *lot* of variance | 04:12 |
| Dredd | Yeah | 04:12 |
| LjL | i mention 10% because one year it actually was 10% | 04:12 |
| LjL | hopefully it's not 10% every year so the average can come close to 50% :P | 04:13 |
| Dredd | muny: Bye 🙂 | 04:13 |
| Dredd | 10% against what strains though etc | 04:13 |
| LjL | anyway, i haven't got a flu vaccine because... cultural thing i guess, i never got one really. but last time i looked at italy's data, this year we have a *lot* more flu-like diseases (they don't count flu separately because they don't sequence) than any other recent year except 2009 with swine | 04:14 |
| LjL | Dredd, just overall 10% during that particular year | 04:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: A chewing gum that could reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission. A chewing gum laced with a plant-grown protein serves as a “trap” for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, reducing viral load in saliva and potentially tamping down transmission, according to a new study. → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r95x7k/a_chewing_gum_that_could_reduce_sarscov2/ | 04:17 |
| LjL | Dredd, look at page 5 of the first attachment at the bottom https://w3.iss.it/site/rmi/influnet/pagine/rapportoInflunet.aspx | 04:18 |
| LjL | it's apparently not *spiking* compared to last time i checked, but it's still much higher than usual | 04:19 |
| LjL | although i guess it may be RSV rather than flu, mostly, and/or bronchiolitis which appears widespread in children this year. the age group most affected is 0-4 anyway | 04:19 |
| LjL | but still, if some of that is actual flu, it's worse than previous years | 04:20 |
| LjL | the second report is ridiculous though, that's the one where they actually sequences flu... so few cases, but so little sequencing to begin with | 04:21 |
| pepee | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6hUoosMOuU | 04:26 |
| pepee | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuyAtvwP2H4 | 04:26 |
| pepee | I suggest watching these videos... first one is titled "Need for vaccine aspiration confirmed, why is this not being done", second one is titled "Aspirate to vaccinate!" | 04:27 |
| LjL | okay, i'm not against aspiration at all, but with Campbell videos, i think i'm going to point out when they are shown that he is *not* a doctor, but a nurse (because way too many people call him "doctor" and i suspect they assume he's an MD), and lately he's expounded some questionable ideas | 04:28 |
| pepee | he's a nurse, which is something that gives him even more credit on this specific topic | 04:29 |
| pepee | IMO | 04:29 |
| LjL | fair enough, just a general contextualization | 04:30 |
| pepee | right, thanks | 04:31 |
| muny | I'm back, @pepee what are the video's about, cautious cause sometime the algorithm sends more of the same. | 04:56 |
| pepee | muny: the way people are being injected could be a factor in how blood clots appear | 04:57 |
| pepee | ... and old nurses were taught a safer way to do it | 04:59 |
| muny | Thanks pepee, Yes, watching the vid now, he seems like a balanced sort of chap. | 05:00 |
| muny | 05:24 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +43500 cases (now 6.2 million) since 23 hours ago | 05:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 838: The magic virus bus: The New York City Virus Hunters join TWiV to reveal how local students engage in safe virus surveillance and conduct science research right in their neighborhoods, followed by an update on variant of concern Omicron. → https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-838/ | 06:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for La Guajira, Colombia: +197 cases (now 46165) since a day ago — Lombardy, Italy: +2990 cases (now 943466), +19 deaths (now 34447) since 23 hours ago — India: +8895 cases (now 34.6 million) since 23 hours ago | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Conservatives’ aversion to masks is a uniquely American phenomenon. Politically conservative Americans are less likely than liberals to comply with recommended health-protective behaviors such as mask wearing during the COVID-19 pandemic, but this [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r994qu/conservatives_aversion_to_masks_is_a_uniquely/ | 07:25 |
| sifisega | anyone here from Australia? | 07:59 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "okay, i'm not against aspiration..." <- I think he's referring to the paper that suggests a potential mechanism behind the AZ bloodclots? But so far he's presenting this as "confirmation" or what I assume is a fact | 08:37 |
| Dredd | Just kinda annoying. I have no doubt he knows how to inject someone well but I doubt his ability to interpret and present research accurately | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Don't panic about Omicron variant, WHO says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9ac40/covid_dont_panic_about_omicron_variant_who_says/ | 08:39 |
| Dredd | > lately he's expounded some questionable ideas | 08:43 |
| Dredd | LjL A very courteous way of putting it 😛. We could say he's recently expounded some completely wrong ideas which he presented as authoritative facts which showed he doesn't really know what he's talking about or how to interpret pharmacokinetics 😀 | 08:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US makes it mandatory for all incoming passengers to carry negative Covid-19 test report → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-mandatory-incoming-passengers-negative-covid-19-test-report-7657081/ | 09:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Great stuff from @jburnmurdoch on reports from the ground and latest hospital data in South Africa.It appears prior infection/immunity from vaccines offers solid protection against severe disease But cases are growing so fast it’s still a threat [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1467411375790215168 | 09:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +280 deaths (now 470900) since 10 hours ago | 10:34 |
| Timvde | % cases Belgium | 10:50 |
| Timvde | Eh | 10:50 |
| Timvde | %cases Belgium | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: Belgium has had 1.8 million confirmed cases (15.9% of all people) and 27167 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of a day ago. 25.1 million tests were done (7.3% positive). 8.8 million were vaccinated (76.8%). +17910 cases, +47 deaths, +111535 tests since 23 hours ago. See https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/ | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Covid-19 and Vitamin D - a retrospective study → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r9cdzi/covid19_and_vitamin_d_a_retrospective_study/ | 11:08 |
| darsie | Austria's lockdown works. | 11:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +1 deaths (now 120441) since a day ago | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Dutch Princess Beatrix tests positive for coronavirus: The former Dutch queen recently told reporters she had received her vaccination booster shot. → https://www.politico.eu/article/princess-beatrix-coronavirus-positive-netherlands/ | 11:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Racism & discrimination is getting out of hand (La Tribuna, Spain). Specially as over 80% of the initial COVID intro in South Africa came from Europe - Tegally et al Nature Medicine 2021. Is not time to stop the discrimination and face this global epidemic [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1467446272504348675 | 11:54 |
| Dredd | https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cinema-co-drakeford-covid-passes-22365369?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar | 12:06 |
| Dredd | This is what happens when they try to enforce restrictions in the UK | 12:08 |
| Dredd | joerg de-facto @de-facto:libera.chat | 12:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Tulsans of the Year: Nurse's wake-up call for COVID-19 shots goes global as daughter hospitalized → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/r9dkwk/tulsans_of_the_year_nurses_wakeup_call_for/ | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +200 cases (now 822592), +1 deaths (now 11541), +7995 tests (now 4.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: @thomasppeacock Thomas Peacock: Putative host origins of RNA insertions in SARS-CoV-2 genomes → https://virological.org/t/putative-host-origins-of-rna-insertions-in-sars-cov-2-genomes/761/2 | 12:32 |
| joerg | hmm >>without the vax you have a 1 in 10,000<< I think muny should redo their math | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Epidemiological update: Omicron variant of concern (VOC) – data as of 5 December 2021 (12.00): As of 5 December and since 4 December 2021, 16 additional SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant of concern (VOC) cases have been confirmed in the European [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/epidemiological-update-omicron-variant-concern-voc-data-5-december-2021-1200 | 12:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +176 cases (now 1.6 million), +6 deaths (now 27995), +16428 tests (now 11.0 million) since a day ago | 13:03 |
| joerg | .title https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cinema-co-drakeford-covid-passes-22365369?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: From www.walesonline.co.uk: Cinema & Co advertise Muppet Christmas Carol screening 'starring Drakeford as Scrooge' - Wales Online | 13:16 |
| joerg | hmmm | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 05DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/r9eflb/global_covid_cases_for_05dec21/ | 13:19 |
| joerg | ((redo math)) in Germany 1 out of ~800 died from covid | 13:24 |
| joerg | so far | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Travel changes too late to halt potential new wave - scientist → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59536795 | 13:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Science talks: Europe was responsible for over 80% of the early introductions of COVID-19 in South Africa. Results published at Nature Medicine 2021 (Respected Journal with high impact factor) - Why discriminate Africa now? nature.com/articles/s4159… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1467481695762976771 | 14:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +43176 cases (now 6.2 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +41565 cases (now 10.5 million) since 23 hours ago | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: 183 cases of Omikron found in Denmark → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/r9fotx/183_cases_of_omikron_found_in_denmark/ | 15:30 |
| de-facto | joerg, its exponentially dependent on age, with previous variants IFR doubled with each increase of age by 5.75 years | 15:32 |
| de-facto | so it heavily depends on demographics and vaccination waning by age groups | 15:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): Hieronder ook de verspreiding van Omicron in het VK. Verdubbelingstijd van ca. 3 dagen... Sampling biases mogelijk, maar snelheid van verspreiding consistent met die in Zuid-Afrika, en dat in een hoog gevaccineerde populatie. twitter.com/Forensic_Stats… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1467502790759038979 | 15:39 |
| joerg | de-facto: hm? what is dependent on age? | 15:59 |
| joerg | my >>in Germany 1 out of ~800 died << was a simple "rephrasing" of 101k deaths in 81mio | 16:01 |
| joerg | of course I'd assume 90% of those deaths are within the 10% group >60y | 16:04 |
| joerg | mere ballpark numbers | 16:05 |
| joerg | all that in reply to >><joerg> hmm >>without the vax you have a 1 in 10,000<< I think muny should redo their math<< | 16:06 |
| joerg | without the vax you have a 1 in 1000 chance to die, rather than 1 to 10 000 | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest topics: Uncategorized: Selection analysis identifies significant mutational changes in Omicron that are likely to influence both antibody [... want %more?] → https://virological.org/t/selection-analysis-identifies-significant-mutational-changes-in-omicron-that-are-likely-to-influence-both-antibody-neutralization-and-spike-function-part-1-of-2/771 | 16:07 |
| joerg | right now the stats say more like 1 to 200, given in D we see 50k/d average incidences and 250 or so average fatalities per day | 16:10 |
| joerg | and that's for vaxed and unvaxed in total | 16:11 |
| joerg | won't change much since 90% of those 50k are unvaxed anyway | 16:12 |
| de-facto | infection fatality ratio IFR = constant(vaccination, comorbidities, variant, contamination_dose, etc) * 2 ^ (age/5.75years) | 16:14 |
| joerg | Feynman math | 16:15 |
| genera | the I has not been at 50 k per day two weeks ago, did it? | 16:24 |
| de-facto | 21st of Nov we had an average of 51k daily new infections in Germany | 16:26 |
| genera | *scratches beard* | 16:27 |
| genera | so we have changed that? | 16:27 |
| genera | ok j/k | 16:27 |
| joerg | for details see http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 16:33 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/jyPwuq2.png | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +2508 cases (now 1.8 million) since 21 hours ago | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Omicron's rapid growth in the UK, with 68% of its population vaccinated, adds further concern beyond what we're seeing in South Africa twitter.com/Forensic_Stats… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467519868224245765 | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Let me be clear as I’ve emphasized in the past. Japan’s success is a #VaccinePlus strategy, exemplifying the wide use of masks and other mitigation measures. There are several countries with higher vaccination rates that haven’t replicated Japan’s containment → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467523114254749696 | 17:04 |
| p0indexter | maybe also because the japanese public is on board w/ the public policy more completely and they do a better job in terms of thier personal behaviore | 17:17 |
| joerg | >>Suggests that in UK Omicron could be doubling share of cases in <3 days.<< https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467519868224245765 :-S | 17:19 |
| LjL | Ugh | 17:21 |
| LjL | There's a TON of people queuing outside the vaccine centet | 17:21 |
| Bakunin | hi akevinhuang2 | 17:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +23115 cases (now 2.8 million), +26 deaths (now 20118) since 23 hours ago | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Sunday 05 December 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/r9iyto/sunday_05_december_2021_update/ | 17:32 |
| Bakunin | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03471-w | 17:41 |
| Bakunin | https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2031364 | 17:48 |
| LjL | It's crowded as hell in here | 17:50 |
| de-facto | hope you got your trusty 3M ffp2 | 17:52 |
| joerg | take care! | 17:58 |
| joerg | February 2020 when I returned from holidays in Madrid, they had those sterilizing aerosol/fog dispensers mounted to the ceiling above the security check at airport. I wonder what became of that concept | 18:01 |
| Bakunin | pnas.org refusing connections to certain articles, interesting | 18:02 |
| de-facto | joerg, passengers got drunk by inhaling ethanol? :D | 18:03 |
| joerg | no idea :-D | 18:03 |
| Bakunin | https://pnas.org/content/118/36%20/e2103154118.short | 18:04 |
| de-facto | if it makes people cough it may even be counter productive? | 18:05 |
| de-facto | Bakunin, its a "short" url, do you have to full DOI ? | 18:05 |
| joerg | I didn't even notice any smell | 18:05 |
| de-facto | interesting | 18:05 |
| joerg | really no idea what it was | 18:06 |
| Bakunin | no, i cant get it to load | 18:06 |
| joerg | or if it been effective at all | 18:06 |
| Bakunin | all connections to pnas.org break for me | 18:06 |
| Bakunin | even on VPNs | 18:06 |
| Bakunin | because I guess that's spooky info | 18:07 |
| de-facto | maybe they are having a server issue, i guess trying later could help | 18:07 |
| de-facto | cant load it either | 18:07 |
| joerg | neither here | 18:07 |
| joerg | what is pnas.org? | 18:07 |
| Bakunin | proceedings of the national academy of sciences | 18:08 |
| joerg | it's weekend ;-) | 18:08 |
| de-facto | erm your url is weird, try https://www.pnas.org/content/118/36/e2103154118.short | 18:08 |
| Bakunin | here we go | 18:09 |
| Bakunin | https://www.pnas.org/content/118/36/e2103154118.short | 18:09 |
| Bakunin | yep thx | 18:09 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.pnas.org/content/118/36/e2103154118.short | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.pnas.org: SARS-CoV-2 escape from a highly neutralizing COVID-19 convalescent plasma | PNAS | 18:09 |
| Bakunin | I had to add the www and when I did, I saw it had a space | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r9jq0n/protrump_counties_now_have_far_higher_covid_death/ | 18:09 |
| Bakunin | Boomer remover | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Putative host origins of RNA insertions in SARS-CoV-2 genomes: Hey Tom - great analysis, as always! As for the insertion in Omicron, I think we have to be careful what we can and cannot conclude. A lot of people take this as meaning that [... want %more?] → https://virological.org/t/putative-host-origins-of-rna-insertions-in-sars-cov-2-genomes/761/3 | 18:19 |
| Bakunin | host derivation, like when the researcher used the extra step of infecting monkeys to propagate the virus for escape mutants? | 18:21 |
| Bakunin | https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/health/smallpox-vials-found/index.html | 18:27 |
| Juerd | Bakunin: Those turned out to contain vaccinia. | 18:28 |
| Bakunin | wink | 18:29 |
| Juerd | Wink? | 18:29 |
| Juerd | https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/18/health/smallpox-vials-vaccine/index.html | 18:29 |
| LjL-Matrix | I just had a Pfizer | 18:30 |
| Juerd | LjL-Matrix: Congrats! | 18:30 |
| LjL-Matrix | They gave me the choice with Moderna | 18:30 |
| LjL-Matrix | I stayed with Pfizer since I had absolutely no side effects before (apart from arm pain) and it's not clear from studies whether half dose Moderna may be better | 18:31 |
| LjL-Matrix | Thanks Juerd | 18:31 |
| Bakunin | Juerd yes, two days later, that's called "damage control" | 18:31 |
| LjL-Matrix | de-facto might say it would have been wiser to alternate vaccines for maximum protection, he might be right, but oh well, I had to decide in seconds and I didn't expect a choice | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +15010 cases (now 5.1 million), +43 deaths (now 134195), +525108 tests (now 122.3 million) since 23 hours ago — India: +2706 deaths (now 473326) since 18 hours ago | 18:33 |
| Juerd | I'll take any Pfizer or Moderna as a booster. Unfortunately, I won't be eligible until January or more likely February, even though it's already been 7 months since the completion of my initial (Moderna) series. | 18:34 |
| LjL | I have a new phone and I forgot to install the contact tracing app on it, I remembered while I was queueing outside, fortunately it installed and ran without issues :p | 18:35 |
| LjL | Few people here use it I'm afraid, but if there's one circumstance where I should have it. . | 18:35 |
| joerg | re >>putative host origins<< I see a 8 or just 7 matched pairs at max, 4^8 = 65 536 FWIW. Gut feeling says the likelihood is high for this being mere coincidence | 18:35 |
| Juerd | I don't think the apps are very useful anymore, as they didn't get reconfigured to account for the greater fitness of delta, let alone omicron (afaik). I'll still use it though. | 18:36 |
| LjL | Juerd: that's strange, it's now 5 months here, but I thought most countries had agreed on at least 6 mknths | 18:36 |
| LjL | Juerd: they weren't very useful before either tbh. They had some tight limitations on how much exposure time you needed, but the virus doesn't care | 18:36 |
| Juerd | LjL: This country is fucking up the whole booster thing. The national health board (Gezondheidsraad) advised preparation of a booster campaign in september, but they only just recently actually started the campaign. | 18:37 |
| LjL | Still, a small chance to be traced is better than no chance | 18:37 |
| LjL | Juerd: sorry, Netherlands or Belgium? I should remember | 18:37 |
| Juerd | Netherlands | 18:37 |
| LjL | How are the cases going? I haven't had a look recently | 18:37 |
| Juerd | Stabilizing but test positivity is still shockingly high | 18:38 |
| LjL | %cases Netherlands | 18:38 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Netherlands has had 2.8 million confirmed cases (16.0% of all people) and 20118 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of an hour ago. 19.2 million tests were done (14.5% positive). 13.3 million were vaccinated (75.9%). +23115 cases, +26 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://coronadashboard.government.nl/ | 18:38 |
| Juerd | https://raw.githubusercontent.com/YorickBleijenberg/COVID_data_RIVM_Netherlands/master/plots/63_ECDC_6.png | 18:38 |
| LjL | 14.5% positive since the start is pretty high yeah | 18:39 |
| Juerd | >20% of tests is positive now. | 18:39 |
| Arsanerit | How meaningful is test positivity if it only considers PCR tests, when most tests are antigen tests and people may do a PCR test only if the antigen test is positive? | 18:39 |
| LjL | Although... Here it's much lower *now* but that's because the vast majority of tests are silly rapid tests | 18:39 |
| LjL | Arsanerit: here the antigen tests are also counted | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | Among German schoolkids I think also >20% of PCR tests is positive, but if you count all the antigen tests they do several times per week in school then apparently the test positivity rate is in the order of 0.01% (meaning: positive antigen tests confirmed by positive PCR test) | 18:40 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Don't know exactly, but I do know that I won't be standing in line when 1 out of 5 in that queue's going to be positive. | 18:40 |
| LjL | %cases Italy | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Italy has had 5.1 million confirmed cases (8.5% of all people) and 134195 deaths (2.6% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 122.3 million tests were done (4.2% positive). 47.4 million were vaccinated (78.6%). +15010 cases, +43 deaths, +525108 tests since 23 hours ago. See https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-dashboard or https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/ | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | Juerd: Not even outside with distance? | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | I stood in a drive-through queue, 3 metre distance and with FFP2 mask. I think that's safe enough. | 18:40 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: If it was outside, with distance, then sure, but they have lines indoors. | 18:40 |
| LjL | I'd also be conflicted if I had to have a test tbh | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | Do you not have drive-through test centres there? | 18:40 |
| Juerd | Most drive-through testing centers were closed here, and reconfigured to be indoors. | 18:40 |
| LjL | I wish we had drive-throughs | 18:41 |
| Arsanerit | Why did they reconfigure them? | 18:41 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: The country has gone bonkers. | 18:41 |
| LjL | They also "reconfigured" vaccine centers here to be much more crowded :p | 18:41 |
| LjL | As in they closed quite a few | 18:41 |
| Arsanerit | At least in vaccine centres hopefully you don't have 20% of people positiev. | 18:41 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: There's no explanation for most of the utter idiocy when it comes to taking risks with covid. | 18:42 |
| LjL | I wonder this 15 min wait... What's the chances of an allergic reaction vs the chances of covid from someone in the same waiting room? | 18:42 |
| LjL | Also I assume most people here today are "former" anti-vax since I felt most weren't third doses like mine | 18:42 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Oh, haha. No :( *cries*. Vaccine center == test center, for most of them, in .nl. So when you're getting your vaccine, you migt end up in the same fucking line as those who are 20% likely infected. | 18:42 |
| joerg | Juerd: how would any arbitrary queue have 20% positives? unless it's the "get your PCR result" queue | 18:42 |
| LjL | Ugh | 18:42 |
| Arsanerit | My Corona-Warn-App gave me a warning the day after I queued (outside, with mask and distance) for a PCR test (which I got because of a previous Corona-Warn-App warning after a trip to The Netherlands and back). | 18:42 |
| LjL | That's scary Juerd | 18:42 |
| Juerd | joerg: It's that line. | 18:43 |
| joerg | aaah | 18:43 |
| LjL | Arsanerit: my app never gave me a warning but we have silly low adoption | 18:43 |
| LjL | %s numeri immuni | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 233500.0 hits: https://www.immuni.italia.it/ (Immuni - Sito Ufficiale) — https://www.immuni.italia.it/dashboard.html (I numeri di Immuni) — https://www.immuni.italia.it/faq.html (Domande Frequenti - Immuni) — https://www.immuni.italia.it/report.html (Segnala positività - Immuni) [... want %more?] | 18:43 |
| Juerd | I'm definitely getting one proper FFP3 mask to wear when getting my booster. | 18:43 |
| LjL | Hmm none of those | 18:44 |
| Juerd | For the rest I'm fine with FFP2. | 18:44 |
| LjL | They have one page with all the numbers, downloads, positives, reports | 18:44 |
| Arsanerit | In Germany the adoption increased after the app grew additional features such as storing certificates (test or vaccine) and informing about local infection and hospitalisation rates. | 18:44 |
| Arsanerit | I should probably call my GP to make a booster appointment for January. I don't think I'm eligible now, as my second dose was less than six months ago. | 18:44 |
| joerg | Juerd: netherlands fsckd up thoroughly their complete organization then? :-/ | 18:45 |
| Juerd | joerg: Yes, and there are signs (but no definitive proof) that some parts of that are not accidental, but part of a greater risk acceptance strategy. | 18:45 |
| joerg | OMG | 18:46 |
| Arsanerit | Dutch: "we should not sacrifice our freedom for our health"? | 18:46 |
| Juerd | I wish https://www.ginnymooy.com/2021/11/22/voordat-we-2g-omarmen-moeten-we-dit-begrijpen-over-het-coronabeleid/ was available in English | 18:46 |
| Arsanerit | deepl translate is pretty good between germanic languages | 18:46 |
| joerg | Arsanerit: depending on where you live. I got my booster after 4.5months, Bavaria | 18:47 |
| Juerd | It rather convincingly explains how everything that's happening here ties together if you consider it from a risk acceptance standpoint. | 18:47 |
| joerg | vaccination center | 18:47 |
| Arsanerit | joerg: Huh, I thought it was only available six months after the second dose. | 18:47 |
| joerg | LjL: wide decision made in a hurry - BNT is less questionmarks than Moderna | 18:48 |
| joerg | Arsanerit: nope, now 5 | 18:48 |
| Arsanerit | In Dutch press I hvae read contributions proposing a risk acceptance approach, usually pointing toward Sweden as a positive example; in German press I have not read this. | 18:48 |
| joerg | and 4.5 was no problem either, depends on your luck though | 18:48 |
| Juerd | I'm actually considering traveling to Austria since they appear to be doing boosters for foreigners too. But it's expensive to go there and I'd need a hotel to rest during the side effects, and I'm not sure how to evaluate remotely whether a hotel has proper ventilation that isn't shared between rooms. | 18:49 |
| Arsanerit | I think people getting their first or second dose should go first, before me. I'm quite low risk, having almost no contacts. | 18:49 |
| Arsanerit | Juerd: You could go camping? ;-) | 18:50 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Camping in winter? Not with my health. | 18:50 |
| joerg | judging by the statistics and charts, you should probably get a BNT booster (after 2 x BNT) already a 3 months after 2nd shot | 18:50 |
| Arsanerit | joerg: And after that? | 18:50 |
| Arsanerit | Should everyone get a vaccine every 3 months until ... ? | 18:51 |
| joerg | keep in mind it's called booster for hysterical raisins, actually it's the final shot of initial immunization, not a booster | 18:51 |
| Juerd | H[yi]st[eo]rically, repeat infections have sometimes been called booster infections. | 18:51 |
| joerg | turned out covid vaccination needs a 3-shot regimen | 18:52 |
| Arsanerit | ("hysterical raisins" sounds comical) | 18:52 |
| Arsanerit | Does it last longer after the 3rd dose then? | 18:52 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Yes, it very probably does. | 18:52 |
| joerg | yes, very very likely | 18:52 |
| Bakunin | https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1466874636554100737 | 18:52 |
| Bakunin | ^ super spreader omicron event in Norway | 18:52 |
| Arsanerit | Juerd: The Dutch article not only has a language barrier, but also appears to assume the reader is broadly familiar with the Dutch policy in the past. | 18:52 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Good point | 18:53 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: You might be, I guess? | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | I am only vaguely familiar with Dutch corona policy, not very closely. | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | I did visit The Netherlands recently, and even dared to visit a cinema, apparently on the day that a new "lockdown" started. We had to "show a QR code", but weren't told what the QR code should encode (2G, 3G, 2G+...). They did enforce it. I was the only one to keep my FFP2-mask on inside. | 18:54 |
| Arsanerit | I still wonder why cases in Sweden are relatively low. | 18:56 |
| Arsanerit | %cases Sweden | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: Sweden has had 1.2 million confirmed cases (11.7% of all people) and 15170 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 2 days ago. 13.7 million tests were done (8.8% positive). 7.6 million were vaccinated (73.7%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden&legacy=no | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Sweden, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 18:58 |
| Bakunin | dont you use worldometers.info? | 18:59 |
| Bakunin | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ | 19:00 |
| Arsanerit | is that reliable? | 19:00 |
| Bakunin | why wouldnt it be | 19:00 |
| Arsanerit | Where do they get their data? | 19:01 |
| Bakunin | Folkhälsomyndigheten | 19:01 |
| Bakunin | Antal fall av covid-19 i Sverige – data till och med föregående dag publiceras varje tisdag-fredag kl. 14:00 | 19:01 |
| Arsanerit | Juerd: "De drama’s die zich in sommige verpleeghuizen nog altijd voordoen? We horen ze niet." — is that true? Do the Dutch press not report about overloaded intensive cares, patients suffering from long covid, etc.? | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | My unvaccinated colleague believes that the German public broadcaster are deliberately over-reporting on such problems in Germany in order to make people unnecessarily afraid and therefore trigger up support for limiting our rights. | 19:04 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Press is mostly reporting about ICs but not much about the rest of the healthcare system. It's definitely not kept secret that everything is highly overwhelmed, but almost nobody seems to be making enough of a big deal of it. It seems that the supposed risk acceptance strategy is mostly working. | 19:04 |
| joerg | usual boring conspiracy believers' 10 commendmends 101 | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | The article you linked also appears to allege something of a conspiracy, but in the other direction. | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): 3 countries with 60% total population vaccinated amidst ~100% Delta@OurWorldInData Currently, Czechia is #3, Hungary #7 for highest cases per capita in the world pic.twitter.com/yzaUUCxni8 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467553768732463104 | 19:06 |
| Juerd | joerg: The problem is that we actually seem to have a conspiracy on our hands, that's completely out in the open - people appear to be conspiring to influence the public opinion to be accepting of sickness and death. | 19:06 |
| joerg | to start with, german press generally doesn't select their reports according to what dark powers want for their evil plans | 19:06 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: Yes. I felt dismissive of what it said initially because of that, but have come to believe it. | 19:07 |
| joerg | quite possible they actually do over-coverage aka emphasis of scary stuff - simply because scary headlines sell | 19:08 |
| Juerd | There's still Hanlon's razor, of course. | 19:08 |
| Juerd | But I just can't fathom this much incompetence. | 19:08 |
| Arsanerit | joerg: You don't need to convince me. | 19:09 |
| joerg | :-) | 19:09 |
| Arsanerit | joerg: He came up with some highly ranked person in NDR being married to a senior figure in CDU or something like that, which isn't at all convincing of anything. | 19:09 |
| joerg | just re-iterating the very obvious arguments against such BS | 19:09 |
| Arsanerit | I pointed out that the taz is about as independent as press can be, and he admitted that this is true, but regrets that they still support lockdowns and restrictions. So, well. | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | He wants that the press offer more space for people arguing in favour of the "acceptance" strategy. | 19:10 |
| joerg | *shrug* lost case I guess | 19:10 |
| joerg | I want a pink pony... wait, I want a ferrari | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | "Let's keep our freedoms and accept that many people will die; let's deny healthcare to people unlikely to survive" | 19:11 |
| Juerd | But well, anyway, the head of the infectious disease department of our CDC-equivalent (RIVM) is an avid anti-masker (who doesn't ignore the mask mandates, fortunately) and believes carnival is "celebrated in small groups", etc. So we were to be screwed from the very beginning of this crisis. The guy should have been replaced, imnsho. | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | In Sweden in the first wave I think they let lots of people die in care homes — that's alos a way to prevent overloading intensive cares. | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | If you don't accept high risk patients into the intensive care to begin with, then those intensive care units might not be overloaded. | 19:12 |
| joerg | let's deny healthcare for people who demand BS | 19:12 |
| Arsanerit | no, let's not deny healthcare for anybody | 19:12 |
| joerg | ack | 19:12 |
| Arsanerit | I still need to work with my colleague. He *finally* moved to home-office since the past week, for the first time. | 19:12 |
| Bakunin | healthcare is NOT an infinite resource | 19:13 |
| Juerd | Arsanerit: .nl does accept elderly people into the IC, but most don't of 80+ don't want to. | 19:13 |
| Arsanerit | And so far he has been following the law, so I'm curious to see what he will do if mandatory vaccinations come. I suspect he will take the vaccine, but under protest. | 19:13 |
| Arsanerit | bbl | 19:13 |
| Juerd | https://www.stichting-nice.nl/ has charts; have a look at the one titled "Leeftijdsdistributie van IC-patiënten met verdachte of bewezen COVID-19 die zijn overleden of uit het ziekenhuis zijn ontslagen" | 19:14 |
| Bakunin | vaccine deniers should just be sent to tents where untrained people google their symptoms. | 19:14 |
| Bakunin | they deserve no right to healthcare | 19:14 |
| Juerd | Translated: age distribution of IC patients with suspected or proven COVID-19 who died or were released from the hospital | 19:14 |
| Juerd | s/the hospital/hospital/ | 19:15 |
| Juerd | Or the one below, which has totals per age group. Those above 80 are hardly even admitted to the IC. | 19:16 |
| Juerd | I don't know if this is different for other countries | 19:16 |
| joerg | denmark omicron cases explode, triple in 48h? | 19:20 |
| joerg | in line with UK | 19:20 |
| Juerd | Oh fuck | 19:27 |
| joerg | might be bogus nonsense, given the very low number of cases we have yet? | 19:31 |
| joerg | not in UK though, >1% is a tangable number | 19:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Belgian police fired water cannon on Sunday to disperse protesters opposed to compulsory health measures against the coronavirus pandemic. Some 8,000 people marched through Brussels towards the headquarters of the European Union, chanting [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9lkzx/belgian_police_fired_water_cannon_on_sunday_to/ | 19:34 |
| joerg | anyway I know I'd prefer to read news like >>despite mass screening, no further omicron cases found<< - ala those don't exist which in itself is a bad sign already | 19:34 |
| Bakunin | ^ there are officially too many humans :) | 19:34 |
| joerg | alas* | 19:35 |
| Arsanerit | Bakunin: I disagree about vaccine deniers, but I do agree there are too many humans. | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +43393 cases (now 10.5 million), +54 deaths (now 146055) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2530 cases (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Belgian politics: ‘Vaccines don’t make you free’: Thousands protest COVID-19 measures in Brussels → https://www.politico.eu/article/vaccines-dont-make-you-free-thousands-protest-covid-19-measures-in-brussels/ | 19:43 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "There's a TON of people queuing..." <- I had to wait for a while to get mine too | 19:51 |
| Bakunin | spread more FUD on twitter and facebook, the lines will dwindle again | 19:53 |
| joerg | hm? | 19:54 |
| Bakunin | I love using those outlets to spread disinfo. It helps fix political problems in my country. | 19:55 |
| Bakunin | the fewer republicans who get vaccinated, the better | 19:55 |
| joerg | weird policy for a weird country | 19:56 |
| Bakunin | it's also approximately 1:1 correlation, antivaxers are Trump freaks | 19:56 |
| Bakunin | I used to be mad about it, until I realized they're all fucking dying, and now I'm happy about it and help spread it | 19:57 |
| Bakunin | I just wish covid were more deadly | 19:57 |
| joerg | yeah, our antivaxes here are not as mad as ~50% of folks over there | 19:57 |
| Bakunin | and there were no monoclonal antibodies | 19:57 |
| joerg | and we got only a maybe 20% of them | 19:58 |
| LjL | Bakunin: it is one of the common sources, but the bot just asks about sources for individual countries because a country's official source may have more specific data. I should probably add also "in English" to the request though | 19:59 |
| LjL | So for countries where there is no specified source, the bot links to offloop (which is good although its main source is broken now so it must use the alternate), otherwise it links to the thing that's hardcoded for that country. The data the bot itself uses don't change though | 20:00 |
| joerg | .cases germany | 20:01 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Germany has had 6.2 million confirmed cases (7.4% of all people) and 103594 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 57 minutes ago. 85.8 million tests were done (7.2% positive). 59.8 million were vaccinated (71.9%). +43176 cases since 23 hours ago. See https://corona.rki.de/ | 20:01 |
| joerg | :-) | 20:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "There was evidence of ongoing active brain injury at follow-up 4 months later."medrxiv.org/cgi/content/sh… Regarding increases in serum Tau and IgM autoantibodies observed in convalescence (HC=healthy controls, TBI= traumatic brain injury for comparison, [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467568032364990464 | 20:02 |
| Bakunin | ic | 20:02 |
| LjL | I didn't think to ask the doctor whether the Moderna would be half or full dose ;( I just assumed it would be half and went with Pfizer | 20:03 |
| joerg | hmmm, help me out please! >>6.2 million confirmed cases [...] 103594 deaths (1.7% of cases)<< does that compute? | 20:03 |
| joerg | aa well, it does, I guess. | 20:04 |
| * joerg needs more coffee | 20:04 | |
| joerg | LjL: for now you're fine with BNT for shure. In 3 months the soonest you might consider if you should get a Moderna on top. 3 Months since that's the point in time after 2nd shot BNT where immunity started to drop significantly | 20:07 |
| LjL | joerg: this is my third shot not second | 20:08 |
| joerg | and that's probably the major advantage of moderna: it lasts longer it seems | 20:08 |
| joerg | LjL: I know | 20:08 |
| joerg | I'm extrapolating | 20:08 |
| LjL | Well I can't decide to get something else in three months :p | 20:09 |
| LjL | Unless they decide to just give people a vaccine every 15 days and somehow have the resources to! | 20:09 |
| joerg | you can't? hmm. I'm not sure but very much I think I could get a shot any time, just denying I ever been vaccinated against covid so far | 20:09 |
| LjL | I didn't know Moderna waned slower | 20:10 |
| LjL | joerg: they have all my info saved, they scan my healthcare card, they know who I am | 20:10 |
| LjL | I thought AZ potentially waned slower but the mRNA vaccines were similar. I also considered the US and UK studies on antibodies after the third dose but their had looked at full dose Moderns so I didn't think I had useful info from them | 20:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Big (order of magnitude) 3rd shot impact of J&J or Pfizer vaccine after 2 doses of Pfizer for both neutralizing antibody and T-cell response vs Delta medrxiv.org/content/10.110… confirms powerful booster effect and extends to J&J, cellular immune response pic.twitter.com/Jbnx5UDuxf → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467571612752891908 | 20:11 |
| LjL | Iiiitches | 20:12 |
| * LjL doesn't scratch | 20:12 | |
| joerg | LjL: https://i.imgur.com/CfThRn3.png | 20:13 |
| joerg | de-facto dug upthe origin paper | 20:13 |
| joerg | http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/search?q=nordstr..%3Fm%28%3Fi%29 | 20:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410 | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From papers.ssrn.com: Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study by Peter Nordström, Marcel Ballin, Anna [...] | 20:16 |
| LjL | Oh I forgot about the Swedes | 20:18 |
| LjL | But still, third dose would have been half dose (I think), so it may be more similar to Pfizer? | 20:19 |
| Dredd | LjL: congrats on your re-enpfizening | 20:22 |
| LjL | Anyway I was taking it for granted that I wouldn't get a choice so I didn't refresh my knowledge on Pfizer vs Modena ;( | 20:22 |
| LjL | Thanks :p | 20:22 |
| LjL | So far arm itches a little but that's all | 20:22 |
| Dredd | My booster was my mildest covid jab yet | 20:23 |
| Dredd | I take that as a sign my body is getting more efficient (in terms of not causing so much collateral damage) at dealing with it | 20:23 |
| joerg | LjL: I think that diagram was done on a 2-shot regimen so Moderna and pfizer both used 100% doeses on that cohort. | 20:23 |
| de-facto | yeah LjL i dont think it does matter too much if booster is Moderna or BioNTech | 20:23 |
| de-facto | e.g. 50µg or 30µg | 20:24 |
| LjL | Probably not much, but you know, hindsight regret always hits :p | 20:24 |
| joerg | I don't know if 50% 3rd shot makes moderna more like pfizer | 20:24 |
| LjL | I need an anti-regret vaccine | 20:24 |
| joerg | hehe | 20:25 |
| Dredd | Try punching your regret in the face | 20:25 |
| Dredd | 😀 | 20:25 |
| Dredd | NOT TODAY REGRET | 20:25 |
| * LjL hits Accept | 20:25 | |
| joerg | I got AZ+BNT+BNT and am happy with it, though at the point I got my 3rd, I had preferred Moderna if it wasn't for the 6km to the vax center where I could get it. So I settled for BNT 3rd and now I'm rather happy with that | 20:26 |
| Dredd | Trying to collect them all joerg ? | 20:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Jordan court jails health officials after 10 COVID patients died due to oxygen outage in a major state hospital. Five senior health officials are sentenced to 3 years in prison for medical negligence → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9mutt/jordan_court_jails_health_officials_after_10/ | 20:30 |
| LjL | if anyone's interested, here are the excess deaths in South Africa: https://www.samrc.ac.za/reports/report-weekly-deaths-south-africa | 20:31 |
| joerg | Dredd: yes, I consider a heterologous vaccination the best | 20:32 |
| Dredd | Does that mean you'll be going after the real deal vaccination with some nice Omicron soon 😛 ? | 20:33 |
| joerg | no sooner than a three monts from now. Well, I guess any omicron-adapted vaccine won't become available any sonner either, rather later | 20:34 |
| joerg | gosh, my spelling/typing sucks today | 20:35 |
| Dredd | I meant getting omicron for real 😛 | 20:35 |
| LjL | i sure hope this massive third dose won't turn out to be a complete waste thanks to omicron ;( | 20:36 |
| joerg | definitely won't | 20:37 |
| joerg | I think we already got first data regarding that | 20:37 |
| joerg | unclear how much it helps, but we know it helps | 20:38 |
| LjL | oh? | 20:38 |
| joerg | iirc there been first neutralization tests that shown (some) effectiveness against omicron | 20:41 |
| joerg | and honestly, anything else would be a complete freak finding | 20:41 |
| joerg | there's never black&white in medicine | 20:42 |
| joerg | and no doubt the booster is useful to help with Delta which is what we got right now, so it can't be "a complete waste" | 20:45 |
| LjL | joerg, well, it does have like twice the mutations as delta | 20:46 |
| LjL | in important places | 20:46 |
| dTal | I just joined some hippy-ish whatsapp groups | 20:46 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/Forensic_Stats/status/1467497592741318666 https://twitter.com/The_Soup_Dragon/status/1467095666551840774 | 20:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Russell Bradshaw (@Forensic_Stats): "This really does not look good. Suggests that in UK Omicron could be doubling share of cases in <3 days. Rough figs from GISAID on EU suggests similar very rapid [...] | 20:46 |
| LjL | this is apparently the same doubling time they get in South Africa, so in the UK the vaccine may not be providing meaningful protection from infection :( | 20:46 |
| dTal | one of them is offering forged PCR results for international travel | 20:46 |
| LjL | sigh | 20:46 |
| dTal | another is asking for "mask exemption papers" | 20:47 |
| LjL | dTal, you may want to leave it. when they raid those channels (i've heard of telegram, not sure if whatsapp is "safer", doubt it) my guess is at least initially, everyone on them gets in some trouble | 20:47 |
| dTal | when you say "those channels" | 20:47 |
| dTal | I'm not aware of any such category, or that regular raids on chat channels are a thing | 20:48 |
| Bakunin | R0 of 3 for Omicron | 20:48 |
| dTal | I am curious and frightened, where can I learn more | 20:48 |
| Bakunin | don't worry, though, a more deadly variant will be leaked from a lab shortly :) | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why does this bode well for Omicron?Beta has the most immune escape of the variants of concern. The booster crushed it.Not seen here, but established, is the augmented breadth of antibody response (binding more epitopes)Please get a 3rd if it's time → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467581105188397056 | 20:49 |
| Arsanerit | The times I checked our local vaccination centre there were queues, but they weren't long. | 20:49 |
| Bakunin | Should be a ban on gain-of-function research | 20:50 |
| LjL | dTal, i really have only heard of italian police raids on Telegram channels (or groups, whatever they're called). i'm just extrapolating to whatsapp | 20:52 |
| dTal | raids in connection with fake covid paperwor? | 20:52 |
| dTal | *paperwork? | 20:52 |
| Bakunin | they even nabbed someone in the US for that | 20:52 |
| LjL | dTal, take green passes, yes | 20:53 |
| LjL | fake* | 20:53 |
| dTal | the only other talk in that chat is someone feeling unwell with chills | 20:54 |
| LjL | i think some police raids for fake covid certificates also in germany, de-facto joerg? | 20:54 |
| dTal | plague rats, the lot of them | 20:54 |
| joerg | I heard sth like that, yeah | 20:54 |
| dTal | the new-age culture is a scourge | 20:54 |
| LjL | dTal, are you waving your walking stick around? | 20:55 |
| Arsanerit | steiner | 20:55 |
| joerg | LjL: just in time :-) ^^^ https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467581105188397056 | 20:55 |
| dTal | LjL: it's not a generational thing, crystal healers and woo merchants can be found in all age groups | 20:55 |
| Arsanerit | I live near a Waldorf/Steiner school. | 20:56 |
| LjL | joerg, yes i saw it! fingers crossed. just keeping the arm relaxed though | 20:56 |
| Bakunin | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/16/border-patrol-fake-vaccine-cards/ | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | I wonder if there are many antivaccers there. | 20:57 |
| joerg | Arsanerit: you may bet on that | 20:59 |
| Arsanerit | they did have a note informing of maskenpflicht for parents visiting the school play on 3 September | 21:00 |
| joerg | I think it was this week when they checked such a school and found FIFTY pupils that had fake mask-excemt attests | 21:00 |
| Arsanerit | oops | 21:01 |
| Arsanerit | Opposing vaccines is consistent with alternative medicine but masks? | 21:02 |
| joerg | guess why they checked ;-) covid cluster | 21:02 |
| Arsanerit | understandable | 21:03 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SwissCovid App Monitoring ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/RWESRR4G ) | 21:07 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Open-Source Project Corona-Warn-App - Analysis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/ACKFN9N4 ) | 21:07 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Immuni - I numeri di Immuni ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/ZQEGMWWN ) | 21:07 | |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add Italian, German and Switzerland exposure notification app "dashbo…: Add Italian, German and Switzerland exposure notification app "dashboards"They usually contain statistics on the number of installs, the number of positives found, and [... want %more?] → https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/6b273974a759d0f8130439b0a53865c662cb89ef | 21:08 |
| joerg | LjL: I just notice an extra "-" at end of channel name in [Notice] -RSSBot[LjLmatrix to ##covid-19- Z... | 21:11 |
| joerg | not a problem, just mentioning it | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Anti-mask, anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist among 3 arrested during demonstration at West Edmonton Mall → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9o0rx/antimask_antivaccine_conspiracy_theorist_among_3/ | 21:17 |
| Bakunin | https://www.voanews.com/a/france-records-more-than-50-000-daily-covid-19cases/6339659.html | 21:21 |
| Bakunin | https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211205-denmark-reports-concerning-jump-in-omicron-variant-cases-of-covid-19 | 21:21 |
| LjL | joerg, that's just how the notice gets sent i think, in HexChat I have a "-" before the RSSBot and one after the channel name | 21:22 |
| LjL | anyway i don't control that bot, it's Matrix's own RSS bot | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add excess deaths report for South Africa: I think I will keep these excess deaths things only here and not on Zotero, as long as they are not strictly associated with COVID → https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/7afabebea82ca4831b9f2bf17b4e53edfdf094ab | 21:26 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Report on Weekly Deaths in South Africa ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/3GMRM9S5 ) | 21:27 | |
| Juerd | 19:55 < Bakunin> the fewer republicans who get vaccinated, the better | 21:28 |
| Juerd | That is absolutely horrible. Evil even. | 21:28 |
| Bakunin | I see you haven't met republicans :) | 21:29 |
| Bakunin | Would you liike a primer? | 21:30 |
| LjL | let's not hope for others' suffering, or if you have to, let's do it in silence | 21:30 |
| Bakunin | https://i.redd.it/7deek6t4io381.png | 21:30 |
| LjL | besides, vaccinations probably do reduce infections to some extent, so it's not a useful thing to hope for anybody | 21:30 |
| Bakunin | literally that meme | 21:31 |
| LjL | literally i don't care, literally i don't even want memes | 21:31 |
| Bakunin | they are the ones ***against vaccination, masks, social distancing, and shutdowns*** | 21:31 |
| Bakunin | ***Republicans want more people to die from the virus, it's them or us *** | 21:31 |
| LjL | this is not useful or productive | 21:32 |
| LjL | Bakunin, please read https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/master/COVID-19-chat.md and if you like it go by it, while if you don't like it either accept to go by it anyway, or you can go elsewhere. i don't want hatred to be fomented here. sure, they probably mostly don't want to get vaccinated, but making it into a "them or us" war is completely silly since if THEY don't get vaccinated, YOU run a higher chance of getting the virus to | 21:34 |
| LjL | too* | 21:34 |
| LjL | in any case, you could say i *agree* with that meme: i don't care if you care (or even like) that anti-vaxxers die, but you aren't going to *say* here that you hope for people to die. | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Peacock (@PeacockFlu): Should add the caveat that this whole analysis is currently based on the assumption these insertions arose in humans (minus the lab studies).. for most SARS2 insertion events that's probably true... For Omicron this is not so clear at present. → https://twitter.com/PeacockFlu/status/1467597548324114446 | 21:54 |
| dzho | so the thing that bugs me about US partisan politics as it touches on vaccinations is that Robert F. Kennedy Jr has had quite a time as a vaccine skeptic | 22:04 |
| dzho | he is, of course, from a family very notable in Democratic politics, and I think has supported Democratic Party candidates in the past. | 22:05 |
| dzho | I don't know where he stands on any given COVID vaccine but his work has almost certainly laid the groundwork for current opposition. | 22:05 |
| dzho | at least partially. | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Get your vaccine booster flair!: Hello r/Coronavirus community! By popular demand, we're now offering flairs to indicate that you've received your COVID-19 booster! Available options now include: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/r9pft9/get_your_vaccine_booster_flair/ | 22:13 |
| dzho | Bakunin: I've /ignore'd you for pm'ing me without asking first. Don't do that. | 22:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Good booster effect (Pfizer; Pfizer or J&J) for cellular and antibody responses against Wt, Delta and Beta VoCsmedrxiv.org/content/10.110… pic.twitter.com/LnhtD25x2o → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1467604639013089292 | 22:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +23112 cases (now 2.8 million) since 22 hours ago | 22:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Manifestazioni di Massa in diverse Città Europee contro Lockdown e Restrizioni per il Covid19 (I VIDEO che la Tv non vi mostra)! → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA/comments/r9pyxo/manifestazioni_di_massa_in_diverse_città_europee/ | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +8791 cases (now 34.6 million) since 23 hours ago | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Johnson&Johnson: Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 Booster, Administered Six Months After Two-Dose Regimen of BNT162b2, Shows Substantial Increase in Antibody and T-cell Responses: Preliminary Phase 2 [... want %more?] → https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-covid-19-booster-administered-six-months-after-two-dose-regimen-of-bnt162b2-shows-substantial-increase-in-antibody-and-t-cell-responses | 23:09 |
| joerg | ^^^ wow, do they deliberately aim for heterologous (BNT+BNT+JJ) regimen now? | 23:28 |
| joerg | aaah wait, JJ picking up the ball they dropped :-) | 23:28 |
| joerg | at least they don't claim >>JJ better for booster after BNT+BNT than a third dose of BNT<< which they'd most likely do if they could | 23:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +43359 cases (now 10.5 million) since 21 hours ago | 23:31 |
| joerg | I'd not be too surprised if it actually were better than a homologuos regimen - alas for doing actual tests they lack access to BNT for double-blind studies | 23:33 |
| joerg | after all afaik it's "known" that heterologous AZ+mRNA works better than even plain homologous mRNA regimen | 23:41 |
| joerg | so why shouldn't mRNA+mRNA+AZ|JJ ? | 23:42 |
| xx | so vaccines are like pokemon now? | 23:57 |
| xx | gotta collect them all? | 23:57 |
| sdfgsdfg | can we give voice to all my antivaxx brothers in here ? | 23:58 |
| sdfgsdfg | lets see where we all stand | 23:58 |
| sdfgsdfg | come on | 23:58 |
| xx | I don't think anyone has +v in here | 23:58 |
| xx | except for the bot | 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
