libera/##covid-19/ Monday, 2021-12-06

enycHrrm John Campbell   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ   thinks promising about Omicron variant in ZA, thinks it mild but much more transmissable and expects similar in eu/uk etc in 6weeks...00:02
LjLEh, possibly. But Campbell is a bit too uh talking-prone00:05
joergenyc: the population in SA is too different to the one as found in EU/USA etc, so any claims about "mild" may be completely unfounded00:06
LjLAlso, consider that even if milder, if we have a much taller wave than the previous variants, the absolute number if people needing treatment may still be scarily higher00:06
LjLAlso that, but there is some *early* indication that this wave has fewer deaths vs the number if cases, compared to previous waves, *in SA*, so not comparing with the EU00:07
LjLI'm hopeful that it will be milder, but hopeful with large caveats00:07
LjLAnd as usual, hope for the best but expect the worst00:07
joergrather it seems to me in SA courses if covid are generally more "mild" than in northern hemisphere00:07
sdfgsdfga bigger wave means more rare cases and deaths possibly ? it hasn't even been 10 days since media explosion of omicron and hospitalizations etc happens after a week I thought00:08
LjLjoerg, sure, because people are younger, but again, in this case i'm comparing one SA "mild course" with another SA "mild course". it's apples to apples, although one objection that has been made is "but maybe those who were likely to die already died in previous waves, since 90% of the population was exposed"00:08
sdfgsdfgmore hospitalized cases*00:09
joerg:nod:00:09
sdfgsdfgor yeah maybe the ones who are supposed to die already died00:10
sdfgsdfgtheyre not showing up on statistics anymore00:10
LjLsdfgsdfg, i'm thinking specifically about this graph https://mobile.twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1467307054415159304 if you compare with the previous wave, the current wave has gone *just long enough* that you'd expect to see a corresponding rise in deaths (early, but it should be there), and yet it's not00:10
joerg:nod:00:11
LjLit's extremely ealy and inconclusive evidence, i'm not saying otherwise. but it's been more than the 10 days required, it should be visiblle00:11
LjLearly*00:11
joergnoticed that when you linked it a few hours ago00:11
sdfgsdfgright now, the nurses are deciding whether to pull the plug or not. They're probably still alive :P00:12
LjLto be fair, i'd say, eyeballing, the previous wave also had like 3x the cases as the one before, and yet "only" 2x the deaths00:12
LjLso it's quite possible it's just following a trend of "many people already died"00:12
joergindeed00:14
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Today's data from South Africa, >11,000 new cases (>16,000 past 2 days) with relatively small number of new hospital admissions (13), slight decrease in ICU patients twitter.com/sugan2503/stat… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/146763112720874291400:14
joerggiven all that, we should be very very careful about "probably just mild"00:14
joergparticularly for our local forecasts00:15
joergenyc: however Campbell might be quite right about 6 weeks and higher R000:17
joergwe already see omicron outperforming delta by higher R0, in UK00:18
sdfgsdfgSA is going back to 10k from 20k, this thing is not even serious00:19
sdfgsdfgthere goes our exponential chart00:19
DreddWhat's not serious?00:20
LjLsdfgsdfg, or a bit of noise in the signal?00:21
de-factoQuestion: assuming the worst case that Omicron infects a LOT of people, how would that accelerate SARS-CoV-2 evolution? would that mean we have extra fast breeding for the next generation of mutant?00:22
LjLeh actually i thought you might be referring to a different graph where i saw a dot going back down00:22
LjLi don't even know what this is so i'll have to look at it :P00:22
LjLi would love if these twitter threads... were... well, let's just say twitter is not the ideal medium for what it's being used for, although i'm thankful *something* is being used for this kind of thing00:23
de-factoits weekend in SA too?00:23
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): This will bend Prof Van Ranst's curve from yesterday a bit. Data are not indicative that Omicron is more mild. Until we see it in people > age 60, large N, no prior Covid or vaccination (or > 6 months, waned), we won't knowtwitter.com/vanranstmarc/s… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/146763378089035776000:23
LjLsdfgsdfg, i'm not sure what you're referring to to be honest, are you comparing two tables from different days from https://twitter.com/sugan2503 ?00:24
DreddOh they were talking about the one day drop on cases and saying Omicron is not serious from that?00:28
DreddUnwise usage of statistics, that00:28
BrainstormUpdates for France: +93876 cases (now 8.0 million), +78 deaths (now 120519) since 12 hours ago — Canada: +1545 cases (now 1.8 million) since 7 hours ago00:34
LjLDredd, i don't know, i'm asking :P that account has a daily *weekly total* of cases, but still, should definitely be compared on the same day of the week00:34
LjLyksi, kaksi00:35
joerg?00:45
sdfgsdfg@LjL I'm quoting Eric Topol's tweet and SA's daily reports00:45
joerg%wtf yksi, kaksi00:45
Brainstormjoerg, No such acronym. Try searching using the Wiktionary command.00:45
sdfgsdfgon friday it was 16k, on saturday 16k again, and on sunday 11k00:45
LjL%tr <fi >en yski, kaksi00:45
BrainstormLjL, Finnish to English: cough, two (MyMemory, Google)00:45
LjLerr00:46
LjL%tr <fi >en yksi, kaksi00:46
BrainstormLjL, Finnish to English: one two (MyMemory, Google)00:46
joerg:-D00:46
sdfgsdfgyes it might be unwise use of stats, it does swing around a lot00:46
sdfgsdfgif we assume the people have the attention span of a bird00:47
enycde-facto: for some reason I don't know exactly, they speak of virus running out of variation/mutants00:47
sdfgsdfgit might not be unwise00:47
enycvery much saying it may have used up its mutations00:47
joergat least you're in quite some good company00:47
sdfgsdfg:D00:48
enyc** anybody understand this ''running out of variations'' mess?00:50
joergI heard about that, iirc it been completely debunked by Drosten00:51
sdfgsdfgmodern day nostradamus00:51
de-factoenyc, in what context?00:53
sdfgsdfgnobody knows anything about the evolutionary potential of a new once-in-a-century virus00:54
sdfgsdfgthese are just random prophecies00:54
de-facto.title https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global <-- this gives a good overview over most recent mutations and their geographic distribution00:54
Brainstormde-facto: From nextstrain.org: auspice00:54
de-factoits all Delta now, but Delta got subvariants (AY.<suchandsuch>)00:55
de-factonow we got Omicron00:55
de-factowho knows what else is circulating in South America and Africa00:55
de-factoif you click on "clock" you see mutations per time00:56
de-factoroughly we see an additional one every 2 weeks00:56
joerghttps://twitter.com/David_LKaplan/status/1467637993322205186 (sorry the link "doesn't work" for me, scroll down until:) Re: more mild….. it being more mild isn’t relevant even if true.01:00
de-factoyeah01:04
xxaspirin during covid, yay or nay? Has it been determined yet?01:08
joergdoesn't hurt01:11
de-facto%papers aspirin01:19
Brainstormde-facto, 10 results out of 299: Aspirin, losartan and simvastatin in hospitalised COVID-19 patients: a multinational randomised open-label factorial trial by Danielle Beaumont et al, dated 2020-05-12 → https://pactr.samrc.ac.za/TrialDisplay.aspx?TrialID=11037 [... want %more?]01:19
de-factolots of papers01:19
LjLthat looks like an upper limit :P01:20
LjLof the API i mean01:20
LjLit's good i have spikes flowing in my body and everything, but am i really supposed to be sneezing? ;(01:20
de-factoi think aspirin is a good idea, depends on details of course01:20
de-factoheh LjL maybe your mucus builds up immunity? that would be good for neutralizing right at the entry01:21
LjLde-facto, well how did the spikes already go from the muscles to the mucus!01:21
LjLi got it 7 hours ago01:22
de-factoidk about the exact temporal dynamics01:22
* LjL doesn't even know about the spiritual dynamics01:23
de-factoiirc it was decribed as side effects for 2nd dose by some people though01:23
de-factoso why not?01:23
LjLoh okay01:23
LjLif i google "covid vaccine sneezing" i mostly find remarks like "Doctors say fully vaccinated people should pay attention to symptoms they might otherwise dismiss like sneezing." though ;( as in, sneezing can indicate a breakthrough infection (or just a cold, i suppose)01:25
xxI sneeze whenever I see bright light01:25
de-factoi remember having seen a video from a black girl that got Moderna describing her side effects (i was curious before receiving my shots), the was having mild flu like symptoms including running nose and sneezing etc01:27
de-factoactually i remember it because i thought: nice i want such side effects too, maybe they indicate the mucus is reacting to the vaccination and building up something like a first line of defense01:28
de-factoyet then i only had a hurting arm...01:28
de-factobut maybe it also could be that the immune system ramps up (due to the vaccination) and thereby also reacting more to things like dust etc?01:29
de-factoidk just guessing around :P01:29
LjLxx, i don't literally sneeze when i see bright light but i *look* at bright light to *help* me sneeze when the sneeze is "there halfway". may just be one of those things.01:30
LjLde-facto, to be fair, it was also cold today, including in the vaccine center (i don't think there was heating), and i was struggling to keep my hands and feet warm01:30
LjLnow i'm struggling to keep the tip of my nose warm01:30
* de-facto gives LjL a delicious hot cup of tea :)01:31
* LjL secretly sneaks some alcohol into it01:34
* de-facto steals it back and drinks it in one sip01:34
* de-facto burps01:35
LjLrude!01:35
* de-facto makes LjL a new delicious hot cup of tea :)01:35
* de-facto steals LjLs alcohol01:35
* LjL puts on his mask just to keep his nose warmer01:36
joergweird I seem to recall some sneezing on first dose. I might actually have done, and recall since I hardly ever sneeze01:36
LjLis it just me or are random US media saying a bit different things from what we get to hear in Europe? like this (obviously related to my search) https://www.10news.com/news/in-depth/in-depth-why-many-breakthrough-infections-look-more-like-allergies-than-covid01:38
LjL“If you’ve been vaccinated and start sneezing a lot without an explanation, you should definitely get a COVID test, especially if you are living or working around people who are at greater risk from the disease,” researchers wrote.    ←   except if i'm living or working around those people and i've already been sneezing, it's a bit too late!01:40
LjL(other article)01:40
LjLwhen there's some chat it sometimes almost looks like Brainstorm isn't constantly spitting out stuff02:11
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: Metals in Cannabis Vaporizer Aerosols: Sources, Possible Mechanisms, and Exposure Profiles → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r9tujs/metals_in_cannabis_vaporizer_aerosols_sources/02:16
LjLyes thanks Brainstorm02:17
LjL(like... since when was he even posting from r/Science? must be a real dead night for it to post from places i don't remember him posting from in ages)02:18
LjLdzho, can you tell me about the Bakunin PM you received, if it may be related to channel operations, as i had them quieted?02:20
LjLublx, i've randomly thought i could add an indication on one out of how many people in total has died from COVID in a given country. do you applaud the original idea?02:50
LjL%cases UK02:50
BrainstormLjL: United Kingdom has had 10.5 million confirmed cases (15.8% of all people) and 146055 deaths (1.4% of cases, and 1 in 455 people) as of an hour ago. 366.1 million tests were done (2.9% positive). 51.1 million were vaccinated (76.9%). See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/02:50
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Sarah Gilbert: Next pandemic could be more lethal than Covid: More funding to prepare for pandemics is needed to prevent gains from being lost, Dame Sarah Gilbert says. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-5954221102:54
LjLBrainstorm, pls, go back to talking about cannabis02:57
ublxs/funding/successful politics/02:58
ublxLjL: i guess that new indication won't move quickly but if it started to it'd be good nightmare fuel03:00
LjLsdfgsdfg, well anyway i'm unsure if Topol is having a go at Van Ranst (or at someone else) there, but i really am not sure you can take a decline in cases over a weekend as meaningfully changing the predicted curve. he's probably right that everyone should shut up about whether or not it's milder until we *actually* know some more, though03:00
LjLublx, i'm not sure if i should make it clearer that it's "of all population" or something, but characters are precious03:01
LjL(especially since after i added custom URLs at the end)03:01
LjLby the way, i am lazy03:02
LjL%ca omicron03:02
BrainstormLjL, I have no idea what, who, where, when or whence that is, sorry! Try with a COVID-related thing...03:02
ublxyes, next to the cases percentage, it seems easy to gloss past the distinction03:02
LjLublx, s/people/residents/?03:02
LjL("residents" seems like an oddly specific word but "citizens" would be incorrect and "inhabitants" also sounds odd)03:03
LjL"dwellers" is shorter still, but03:03
LjL"duellers" are even more likely to die03:03
ublx(1.4% of cases; 1 in 455 of population)03:04
LjLgod the preposition clash!03:04
ublxha03:04
ublx(1.4% of cases; population: 1 in 455)03:05
LjLhmm nah clearer the other way, despite awful-sounding03:05
LjLcome up with something better while i add Omicron to the list of things he should know03:05
ublxwell, could just insert "the"03:06
LjL... and mu, apparently03:06
LjLublx, i'm not sure that's the issue i have with it. if you say it out loud, "1 in 455 of the population", doesn't it sound off?03:06
sdfgsdfgthey should probably publish details of genomic engineering03:07
LjLsdfgsdfg, wut03:08
LjLublx, i know! i need to find a library that converts country names to demonyms, like "UK" to "Britons", then i can say "1 in 455 Britons"03:10
LjLalthough by the time i find one it'll be a lower number for sure03:11
ublxHmm!03:11
LjLdamn03:11
LjLi missed my chance to say "like 'UK' to 'Englishmen'"03:11
ublxyou're such a mischievous roman03:12
ublxugh03:14
ublxjust read a comment about the Oslo cluster03:14
LjLwhat that now?03:15
ublxit seems there were 30 infections AFTER the superspreading party left, ie from the air in room03:15
ublxnot that that's surprising, but it's still ugh03:16
LjL:(03:18
LjLi didn't know about the cluster in the first place though03:18
LjLwhat sort of place was this?03:18
LjLmaybe some barely-aerated nightclub or something?03:18
ublxa company christmas party03:19
LjLand, Omicron?03:19
ublxtwo staff members recently returned from SA attended03:19
ublx120 attendees03:19
LjLalso why are they having christmas parties in novem... oh wait03:19
ublx100 later tested positive with omicron03:19
LjLhttps://newsnodes.com/nu_tracker needs updated then03:20
ublxthen 30 further cases in people who occupied the room after the party left03:20
ublxstatus: gimme sec to corroborate all that03:20
LjLi think, i do not know, but i think that indicates perhaps a higher degree of airborne-ness than delta03:20
ublxclarification: cases positive, but not necessarily omicron03:22
ublxomicron is expected, however03:22
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Putin hopes WHO soon approves Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/putin-hopes-who-soon-approves-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine-7658114/03:22
LjLublx, it should at least be in the "probable" column there though i figure03:23
LjLublx, you see https://twitter.com/Forensic_Stats/status/1467497592741318666 ?03:23
ublxreading from this, by the way: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/12/oslo-omicron-outbreak-a-textbook-aerosol-driven-superspreader-event-vax-only-totters.html03:23
LjL%w totter03:23
BrainstormLjL, totter  — verb: 1. To walk, move or stand unsteadily or falteringly; threatening to fall, 2. (figuratively) To be on the brink of collapse, 3. (archaic) To collect junk or scrap — noun: 1. An unsteady movement or gait, 2. (archaic) A rag and bone man → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/totter03:23
ublxnakedcapitalism.com does seem to get ahead of itself sometimes, but for the most part it is detailed and earnest03:23
LjLoh lord norway's case curve...03:24
LjLhow do i not get to know a country is suddenly doing that badly, Brainstorm? :(03:24
LjLperplexing03:27
LjLLibera/##covid-19/2021-09-25.log:[16:32:37] <Brainstorm> Updates for Norway: +649 cases (now 186349), +17584 tests (now 7.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Qatar: +108 cases (now 236231), +5005 tests (now 2.6 million) since a day ago — Namibia: +89 cases (now 127160), +2 deaths (now 3490), +4877 tests (now 695621) since a day ago — Saudi Arabia: +11 cases (now 546803), +2 deaths (now 8686), +32549 tests (now 28.7 million) since a day ago03:27
LjLLibera/##covid-19/2021-10-08.log:[01:29:11] <Brainstorm> Updates for Norway: +508 cases (now 192587), +22744 tests (now 7.9 million) since 20 hours ago — Ecuador: +382 cases (now 511699), +17 deaths (now 32836), +6732 tests (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Ghana: +209 cases (now 128368), +1 deaths (now 1158), +23627 tests (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 11131) since 10 hours ago03:27
LjLthat's all the recent there is on Norway from Brainstorm03:27
LjLyes i know that's barely a sentence, but clearly it's also barely usable code that decides whether to post stuff or not03:27
* LjL wipes the database and restarts the thing and hopes for the best03:27
LjLbut also i don't get it, as usual03:28
LjLnakedcapitalism points the finger immediately to removal of all restrictions03:28
LjL... in september03:28
LjLearly september. but in september the case then went down, only to go up again in the later half of october03:28
LjLi still don't really get what causes waves, how they seem to be dormant for longer than you'd expect...03:29
LjL%cases norway03:29
BrainstormLjL: Norway has had 284448 confirmed cases (5.3% of all people) and 1093 deaths (0.4% of cases, and 1 in 4911 people) as of 3 hours ago. 8.7 million tests were done (3.3% positive). 4.2 million were vaccinated (79.1%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Norway&legacy=no03:29
sdfgsdfgaustralia still about 10 more cases of omicron today03:29
LjLalso pretty vaccinated03:29
LjLlike, really very vaccinated03:30
sdfgsdfglike us03:30
LjLhow promising03:30
sdfgsdfgyou mean australia or norway ?03:30
LjLnorway03:30
sdfgsdfgyeah, I guess it's the seasonal difference maybe03:30
LjLit's always either that or... something else03:30
LjLexcept look at last winter03:30
LjLthey barely had anything03:30
LjL(including vaccinations)03:31
sdfgsdfgclassified comorbidities03:32
sdfgsdfg1- winter 2- heartbreak 3- smoking 4- less sun lol03:32
sdfgsdfgbtw it says Norway is 42.7% fully vax03:34
LjLublx, do you see the 30-people-later thing in that article too? i have it in one comment "There is a major new development on the Oslo cluster — apparently 30 people got infected after the 100/120 group left."03:34
sdfgsdfgsorry I was looking at the wrong row03:34
LjLsdfgsdfg, you can list all the comorbidities or factors you want, but, they also had them last winter03:35
ublxLjL: just from the comment03:35
LjLunless there was an unusual sun epidemic last winter in norway03:35
LjLlol, comment03:36
LjL"Oslo temps are running in the teens in the evening. Not many doors or windows would be open."03:36
LjLTHE TEENS? COVER YOUR NECK!03:37
ublxlol03:37
ublxsome equator dweller posted that?03:37
ublxah. probably an american speaking of degrees Fahrenheit03:38
LjLublx, name in -sen03:38
LjLthough maybe a Norwegian-American, or, as i tend to call them, Americans03:38
LjLi wish the temperature had been in "the teens" (°C) here today03:39
LjLmaybe i wouldn't have this cold nose and sneezing now!03:39
sdfgsdfgvax rate of NSW state is 94.65% compared to 79% of Norway, it will be interesting to track how we both go03:39
LjLwut03:39
sdfgsdfgwith omicron cases and overall, au is going back to zero03:39
LjLhow did they manage 95%03:39
LjL%cases New South Wales03:39
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +47 cases (now 2.8 million) since 10 hours ago03:39
BrainstormLjL: New South Wales, Australia has had 83118 confirmed cases (1.0% of all people) and 630 deaths (0.8% of cases, and 1 in 12841 people) as of 21 hours ago. 141777 tests were done (58.6% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20South%20Wales&legacy=no03:39
LjLBrainstorm, plsvaccinations03:40
sdfgsdfgI don't know, everyone else here except me are literally dying to get more and more of it03:40
sdfgsdfgthey like the vaccination here03:40
LjLsdfgsdfg, do you know whether it's 95% of the eligible population, or 95% of the *whole* population? the number for Norway is whole03:40
LjL(mainly excluding babies and toddlers at this point i guess)03:41
sdfgsdfghmmm, they passed the australian-FDA law to vaccinate 5-11 year olds yesterday03:41
sdfgsdfgthey'll probably start including them soon03:41
sdfgsdfgI'm not sure if it includes them03:41
sdfgsdfgbabies and toddlers also wont be excluded for much long03:42
sdfgsdfgat this rate03:42
ublxvariations of details on olso cluster: https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/146687509621211955603:42
ublxeg: "Almost 120 people are now infected after the party downtown Oslo Nov 26. Around 70 were with the party of 120, 45-50 other guests at the same venue. Omicron suspected in all, still only verified in 13, sequencing slow, screening underway"03:43
LjLgreat03:44
* LjL throws a "we're fucked" party03:44
sdfgsdfgsounds like we will continue being a hermit kingdom in 202203:47
LjL%tr <no >en Én person har fått påvist omikronsmitte etter et julebord i Oslo sist fredag. Over 50 personer er påvist smittet etter festen.03:48
BrainstormLjL, Norwegian to English: One person has been diagnosed with omicron infection after a Christmas dinner in Oslo last Friday. More than 50 people have been found infected after the party. (MyMemory, Google)03:48
LjLhmm no03:49
sdfgsdfg"smittet etter festen" Smitten (by god?), after the feast ?03:50
sdfgsdfgI feel like my german is helping me translate it, norwegian seems similar03:50
LjLyes03:51
LjL%tr <no >en De kommer dermed i tillegg til de rundt 60 juleborddeltakerne som allerede er registrert smittet.03:52
BrainstormLjL, Norwegian to English: They are thus in addition to the around 60 Christmas table participants who have already been registered infected. (MyMemory) — They thus come in addition to the around 60 Christmas table participants who have already been registered infected. (Google)03:52
LjL%tr <no >en De smittede besøkte restauranten Louise på Aker Brygge samtidig som selskapet Scatec avholdt julebord03:53
BrainstormLjL, Norwegian to English: The infected people visited the Louise restaurant at Aker Brygge at the same time as the company Scatec held a Christmas table (MyMemory) — The infected people visited the restaurant Louise at Aker Brygge at the same time as the company Scatec held a Christmas table (Google)03:53
LjLublx, ↑03:54
ublxhmm03:54
minthossmitten = infected, fest = party04:04
minthossorry, smittet = infected04:04
minthossmitten = the infection04:05
minthosor maybe the infectiousness or something04:05
LjLyes but it was basically right04:08
LjLminthos, but you *are* norwegian, right?04:09
minthosyes04:09
LjLminthos, then it's on you to figure out whether this rumor of the 30 or so infected *after* at that venue the party was over is true, or a misunderstanding04:10
* LjL slaps an arrow sticker on minthos and runs away04:10
minthosit's true afaik, the party left and another group entered the same room where the virus still lingered in the air04:11
minthosmost of them were vaccinated too I think04:11
minthosthis one is super infectious04:11
minthosI don't know why they're so slow to confirm it as omicron04:12
LjLminthos, well it's confirmed for about 13 people at least04:16
LjLnot sure about the ones after though04:17
minthosit's suspected in most or all of the others but for some reason they haven't finished sequencing or whatever it is they do04:17
LjLi mean after they've done 13 i don't need to know about the others, i take it for granted :P04:18
LjLbut the part about people getting infected after the party leaving is a lot creepier04:18
LjLso i would like that one confirmed with sequencing, for sure04:18
LjLor at least some PCR that has gene dropout04:18
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Woman reveals how she was abducted and held against her will in one of Australia's Covid Concentration Camps → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9wxqe/woman_reveals_how_she_was_abducted_and_held/04:19
minthosthis covid thing is making me lean more authoritarian04:22
minthosif that was the plan all along by the secret us/chinese puppeteers, well played04:23
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germany to make vaccination compulsory for people working in hospitals, nursing homes and other medical practices, says incoming SPD government → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9xp0a/germany_to_make_vaccination_compulsory_for_people/04:57
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Pharmaceutical & biotech are also developing new vaccines, antiviral, and diagnostics with #Omicron data. If new vaccines are produced who will have early access, who will get the profit? The financial gains will be to developed countries and Africa suffer the [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/146771003676397978905:25
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ oopsie: Epidemiology: oopsie ← Previous revision Revision as of 04:29, 6 December 2021 Line 222: Line 222: In the UK, the logistic growth rate of Omicron-associated S-gene target failure (SGTF) cases over S-gene target positive (SGTP) cases was estimated at [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php05:36
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +21574 cases (now 6.2 million) since 15 hours ago05:39
xxwhen the flu vaccine is a good match in a given year, does it provide sterilizing immunity? Can one still spread it to others?06:00
de-factoyeah flu vaccines has quite low efficacy06:01
de-facto.title https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html06:03
Brainstormde-facto: From www.cdc.gov: Past Seasons Vaccine Effectiveness Estimates | CDC06:03
de-factofar from sterilizing immunity06:04
xxde-facto: isn't that about it being a bad match for the circulating strain, rather than not providing immunity?06:13
de-factothere always are both mechanisms in effect that lead to lower than optimum immunity: 1) level of immunity waning with time 2) pathogen antigenic drift (and recombination)06:25
xxthanks06:26
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Korea puts reopening plans into reverse as cases soar, omicron spreads → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9zyf5/korea_puts_reopening_plans_into_reverse_as_cases/07:01
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ + link: Epidemiology: + link ← Previous revision Revision as of 06:07, 6 December 2021 Line 220: Line 220: "Phylogeny suggests a recent emergence. Data from South Africa suggests that Omicron has a pronounced growth advantage there. However, this may be due [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php07:11
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ The exponent corresponding to something is of course the logarithm of it.: Epidemiology: The exponent corresponding to something is of course the logarithm of it. ← Previous revision Revision as of 06:18, 6 December 2021 Line 220: Line 220: "Phylogeny [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php07:20
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: Banksy street murals recreated in Milan’s main train station → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/banksy-street-murals-recreated-in-milans-main-train-station-7654516/07:39
BrainstormUpdates for Georgia: +1778 cases (now 867071), +63 deaths (now 12407), +25855 tests (now 11.8 million) since 2 hours ago — Taiwan: +10 cases (now 16662), +14366 tests (now 8.5 million) since 2 hours ago — El Salvador: +3 deaths (now 3786) since 2 hours ago08:36
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 06, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ra2226/daily_discussion_thread_december_06_2021/09:03
BrainstormNew from Science-Based Medicine: BOO: Or how “magic dirt” became a MLM miracle cure scam for COVID-19: "BOO" stands for Black Oxygen Organics, a "cure" for COVID-19 that got the attention of regulators last week. Basically, it's dirt billed by its believers as "magic [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/boo-or-how-magic-dirt-became-a-mlm-miracle-cure-scam-for-covid-19/09:12
BrainstormUpdates for Armenia: +95 cases (now 340818), +8 deaths (now 7691), +3308 tests (now 2.4 million) since 3 hours ago09:13
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Gorbi: update sources and total suspected cases: update sources and total suspected cases ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:17, 6 December 2021 Line 228: Line 228: A study suggests that Omicron has picked up one of its mutations, ins214EPE, from the HCoV-229E [[common cold]] [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php09:22
joergmoin!09:25
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: Tidy refs 45-48: Tidy refs 45-48 ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:26, 6 December 2021 Line 210: Line 210: == Epidemiology == == Epidemiology == On 26 November 2021, the South African [[National Institute for Communicable Diseases]] announced that 30,904 COVID-tests [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php09:31
joerg>><sdfgsdfg> I feel like my german is helping me translate it, norwegian seems similar << not really, rather not at all09:31
sdfgsdfgmoin moin joerg, yeah it's not similar but I wanted to think it was similar at the time lol09:32
BrainstormUpdates for Karnataka, India: +853 cases (now 3.0 million), +10 deaths (now 38230) since 3 hours ago — Delhi, India: +114 cases (now 1.4 million) since 3 hours ago — Goa, India: +86 cases (now 179174) since 3 hours ago — Gujarat, India: +92 cases (now 827707), +1 deaths (now 10095) since 3 hours ago09:38
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: Add 3x trans-titles: Add 3x trans-titles ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:33, 6 December 2021 Line 269: Line 269: |- |- ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Denmark}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Denmark}} | 32 {{cite web|date=5 December [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php09:41
joergdamn omicron-oslo curse :-/09:53
DreddMorning all09:56
joergo/09:58
joergtime to order a full respirator09:59
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid in Scotland: Negative test to get into clubs, gigs and events: Evidence of a negative test for Covid-19 can now be used as an alternative to a vaccine passport in Scotland. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-5954025009:59
BrainstormUpdates for Hungary: +22699 cases (now 1.2 million), +489 deaths (now 35611), +1484654 tests (now 8.7 million) since 4 hours ago — Philippines: +379 cases (now 2.8 million), +113 deaths (now 49499) since 4 hours ago — Liechtenstein: +48 cases (now 4941) since 4 hours ago — Saint Lucia: +14 cases (now 13048), +238 tests (now 101304) since 4 hours ago10:03
DreddI'm not fussed with anything more than a surgical mask myself. I don't go out a lot, I keep my distance from people and I'm not particularly afraid of getting covid myself10:07
DreddI'm wearing the mask to do my part minimising spread from myself to others and as part of all of society hopefully being sensible10:07
DreddBut I'm not bothered enough to go though the negatives of using masks or respirators with better filtration10:08
joergwell, I'm out a maybe 20 min per week, but that's already a nightmare in (crowded as usual) supermarket with lots of morons, particularly since I already got some respiratory condition which a) makes normal masks a torture for me (nwevertheless wearing FFP3 since...) b) I wouldn't cope well with the virus10:18
joergand now Oslo demonstrates massive immune escape of omicron10:19
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Next pandemic could be more lethal than COVID, vaccine creator says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra32e5/next_pandemic_could_be_more_lethal_than_covid/10:28
DreddI'm gonna wait about 10 more days before I pay much attention to "omicron is X" news10:29
DreddSince that's when I think it'll be enough time for there to be an accurate assessment10:30
CoJaBoAs a general rule, headlines containing the word "could" are invariably utter hogwash.10:33
CoJaBoThe next pandemic could make everyone bald. A rogue planet could hit the earth. Dogecoin could rise over $9,000. Fricking speculative wastes of time..10:35
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health Tech: STAT+: The pandemic forced an experiment in delivering intensive mental health care from home. Will the approach stick? → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/06/mental-health-outpatient-ocd-telehealth/10:37
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +32136 cases (now 9.8 million), +1184 deaths (now 282462), +500000 tests (now 228.5 million) since 4 hours ago — Ukraine: +4478 cases (now 3.7 million), +239 deaths (now 93973) since 4 hours ago — Lithuania: +471 cases (now 480310), +15 deaths (now 6862), +3781 tests (now 6.2 million) since 4 hours ago — Israel: +328 cases (now 1.3 million) since 4 hours ago10:40
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Opinion: Covid-19 is fueling a pandemic of violence against women and girls: The message from this pandemic is clear: More girls and women will be harmed if the long-term harms of violence are not factored into pandemic responses and their welfare is… → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/06/covid-19-policies-fuel-violence-against-women-girls/10:47
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Claire Champion (@Champion3Claire): @fact_covid Vaccination Centres are waiting  for the new protocols (NP and PGD) to be updated, hopefully by 13/12. GPs can give under prescription so can offer now, but should be calling patients in age brackets from oldest first, and CEV. The [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Champion3Claire/status/146779256548747673710:56
minthosjoerg: have you tried one of those masks with electric fans that make breathing easier?11:02
minthosI forget what they're called11:03
CoJaBothat seems like overkill lol11:04
minthosif we're going to be wearing a mask several hours per week for a year or more, it could be worth investing in added comfort11:04
CoJaBoTbh, it seems like that might reduce comfort if it makes it heavier11:05
CoJaBoNo matter what I do tho, it fogs up glasses eventually :/11:05
BrainstormUpdates for Norway: +1046 cases (now 285494) since 5 hours ago — Slovakia: +74 deaths (now 14900), +7971 tests (now 4.7 million) since 5 hours ago — Afghanistan: +54 cases (now 157499), +1434 tests (now 797783) since 5 hours ago — Oman: +9 cases (now 304612) since 5 hours ago11:05
minthosa better mask would solve the fogging issue11:06
joergminthos: not yet, I looked into several designs of iirc air-helmet etc, they seem too low airflow11:06
joerghttps://youtu.be/e_IXwHmKU2g11:09
minthoshttps://twitter.com/realsexycyborg has been tweeting about them, I didn't pay much attention since my mask never bothered me11:10
joergI'm rather thinking about a concept of a halfmask with tubes to a filter&fans unit to be carried on hip belt or as backpack11:12
imaginaryfogging can't be avoided during the winter can it11:12
joergfogging can easily be avoided by a number of difficult or problematic measures like heating, isolation "shield" (douple layer?) etc11:13
minthosor just more airflow I suppose11:15
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Dongord: /* Statistics */ update: Statistics: update ← Previous revision Revision as of 10:04, 6 December 2021 Line 361: Line 361: |- |- ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Japan}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Japan}} | 2 {{cite news |title=Japan finds [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php11:15
joergfirst of all for fogging you need a shield to fog. I can't see why exactly I'd absolutely need a shield, I'm less worried about protecting my eyes from anything in the air11:21
joergImean, I hope to be able to keep sufficient physical distance to anybody spitting droplets while speaking, and I doubt my eyeballs would catch significant amount of pathogens from aerosol11:23
minthosdon't give the virus any ideas11:23
joerghehe11:24
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Putin to land in India with eye on military, energy ties: Russian President Vladimir Putin will arrive in India on Monday for just his second overseas trip since the pandemic, seeking to bolster military and energy ties with a traditional ally [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra3yse/putin_to_land_in_india_with_eye_on_military/11:25
minthoshttps://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1465630737663623170/photo/311:27
BrainstormUpdates for Poland: +13250 cases (now 3.7 million), +25 deaths (now 85700), +78533 tests (now 24.9 million) since 5 hours ago — Slovenia: +775 cases (now 430839), +14 deaths (now 5317), +78 vaccines (now 1.2 million), +1880 tests (now 2.0 million) since 5 hours ago — United Kingdom: +4 cases (now 10.5 million), +25679 vaccines (now 51.1 million) since 5 hours ago11:30
minthosPAPR is the word I was looking for11:32
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: CoryGlee: /* Statistics */ Correcting my mistake: Statistics: Correcting my mistake ← Previous revision Revision as of 10:33, 6 December 2021 Line 374: Line 374: ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Argentina}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Argentina}} |1 [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php11:34
joergPAPR?11:36
minthospowered air-purifying respirator11:36
joerg:-)11:36
joergfaintly similar to what I'm musing about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_air-purifying_respirator#/media/File:%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D1%8E%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%A1%D0%98%D0%97%D0%9E%D0%94_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B0_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%A7%D0%A1.jpg though it wouldn't need shield, instead it needs a double-pipe design for exhaust filtering, well maybe maybe not11:38
joerghmmm https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/powered-supplied-air/i/safety/personal-safety/11:40
minthoshttps://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1423283026599940096 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1424285288877068293 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/142430458739406438611:40
minthosI welcome our new cyberpunk/dystopian future11:41
joergFFS 1800 bucks https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000204774/11:42
minthosthere is something to be said for crafting your own with computer fans and a 3d printer11:43
joerg:nod:11:44
minthosI guess 3M has certain standards to live up to, while many people just need something better than an N95 mask11:46
sdfgsdfgwow... this worldometer chart is from may 202011:52
sdfgsdfghttps://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/11:52
sdfgsdfgthe percentages are still probably similar right ? except we also have the vaccinated column now11:53
sdfgsdfgI wonder how these numbers changed since then11:53
sdfgsdfgthis is a quick summary of this epidemic for me11:54
sdfgsdfgI'm 31. In the age bracket of 18-44 year olds you see only 3% of deaths11:55
sdfgsdfgin that 3%, out of that around 500 people, 480 of them had underlying conditions11:55
sdfgsdfgand out of those 20, most were probably skinny girls or expectant mothers perhaps :P11:56
minthosthe problem is if you get something other than covid and can't get treatment because the hospitals are full of covid patients11:58
minthosalso "long covid" is something I'd rather avoid11:58
minthosthe third argument is the moral argument that we should avoid spreading it to others, though some individuals are immune to that line of reasoning12:01
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Questzest: /* Statistics */ Updates, old refs cleaned: Statistics: Updates, old refs cleaned ← Previous revision Revision as of 11:01, 6 December 2021 Line 314: Line 314: ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Austria}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Austria}} [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php12:02
sdfgsdfgcovid deaths resolve in about 20-30 days, after enough waves we won't have candidates for covid death and hospitals will be relieved12:03
joergwell, that's what we already see in SA, no?12:04
sdfgsdfgold peoples' concern to be honest, I don't understand the extreme gov pressure on jabbing all 5 year olds, I haven't seen expectant mothers protesting - they could just leave the little ones alone12:04
joergre "mild cases only"12:04
sdfgsdfgprotesting before*12:04
minthosomicron may be hitting the very young harder as well as the very old12:04
joergI think it's about time to reconsider the basic covid strategy. Stuff like nocovid / 0covid gains pro arguments every day12:07
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +238 cases (now 822830), +2 deaths (now 11543), +7114 tests (now 4.7 million) since 6 hours ago — Latvia: +230 cases (now 257559), +10 deaths (now 4277), +4167 tests (now 5.4 million) since 6 hours ago — UAE: +48 cases (now 742376), +1 deaths (now 2149), +498959 tests (now 102.8 million) since 6 hours ago12:08
joergit's outright utterly silly in my book to ask "how many covid cases may we tolerate per week? our goal is to avoid hospital overload" - we probably should try hard to aim at zero covid cases, reducing the number of cases where mutations breed12:09
minthosit's not feasible as long as covid remains in the "uncanny valley" of lethality where a significant portion of politicians and voters don't give a shit12:09
minthossome countries have been fairly successful at it12:10
joerg:nod:12:10
minthosbut we need the whole world on board12:10
sdfgsdfgyes it became impossible with the transmission level of delta12:11
joergagain :nod:12:11
sdfgsdfgI don't think China will last long12:11
sdfgsdfgactually no wait - it was a stupid plane that impregnated australia after 2 years. We should have kept the border fully closed12:11
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Questzest: /* Reported cases */ ref fix: Reported cases: ref fix ← Previous revision Revision as of 11:03, 6 December 2021 Line 463: Line 463: On 29 November, a positive case was recorded in [[Darwin, Northern Territory|Darwin]], Australia. The person arrived in Darwin on a [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php12:12
sdfgsdfglol12:12
sdfgsdfgperfect timing brainstorm12:12
joerg>>it became impossible<< no, since the idea is to *aim* at zero cases, not to *reach* and sustain zero cases12:13
Telvana0 covid is a pipe dream - considering the fact that COVID has an animal reservoir12:14
sdfgsdfgnot sure how people will react to any more days of iso12:15
minthosit used to annoy me that we didn't nip it in the bud when Wuhan went on lockdown, but now I see it as a pentest of our pandemic preparedness (which we failed and still continue to fail 2 years in)12:15
joergTelvana: again, zero covid means to TRY to get there, not to sustain exactly zero12:15
sdfgsdfgit was probably the only thing that would work12:15
sdfgsdfgif done by all countries in sync12:15
TelvanaEven trying to get there is likely impossible12:15
TelvanaI mean, unless you want to shut down international travel forever12:16
sdfgsdfgonly for a few months and make sure we keep people in their homes12:16
TelvanaNever happen12:16
joergtrying is impossible? we're doomed and we asked for it, then12:17
TelvanaIt would have been possible early on if everyone was on board with the plan12:17
sdfgsdfgbut since people have the attention span of a bird12:17
sdfgsdfgwe'll just have to watch them die :p12:17
Telvanathe issue is there was no consistency between countries, borders didn't shut down fast enough, etc12:18
darsieHow many ppl went vegan/vegetarian to reduce the chance of further animals jumping to humans? Any of you?12:18
joergif *trying* to cope with the pandemic is impossible, please go and get your infection, stay away from rest of civilized world12:18
minthosthe disruptions to people's lives and economy would have been much smaller if we had done a few months of China level lockdown globally and maintained a high alert with "better safe than sorry" proactive measures for a while after, instead of this clusterfuck of waiting until it gets pretty bad and then half-assing it until it gets a bit better, repeat ad nauseam12:18
Telvana"civilized world"12:18
darsieHow many ppl went vegan/vegetarian to reduce the chance of further viruses jumping from animals to humans? Any of you?12:18
Telvanaminthos: right, it's just delaying the invevitable12:19
sdfgsdfgI only went vegan to see 8f banana smoothies would taste the same after consuming it repetitively12:19
Telvana*inevitable12:19
joergdarsie: I stopped eating bats12:19
darsie:)12:19
TelvanaMmm bats12:21
darsieI have bats in my area. Occasionally they fly in my flat.12:21
darsieOnce every few years.12:21
darsieCentral Vienna12:22
minthosanother thing is that we should have a global relief fund that can provide people with money during lockdowns, that would probably improve both adherence and support for anti-covid measures immensely12:22
minthosbut again, hard to get everyone on board12:22
enycde-facto: r.e. evolution of covid-19 variantn12:22
sdfgsdfgit'll probably end up being a conspiracy instead of getting everyone on board12:22
sdfgsdfganother*12:23
enycde-facto: various (but e.g. john campbell) talk of  some sort of running out of mutatitons  or  similar, I'm not really sure how this can work, what is going on, etc.12:23
TelvanaWell, the theory is COVID will evolve to be less deadly and less serious over time as it's advantageous for it to NOT kill it's host12:24
TelvanaEvery virus in the history of ever has pretty much done this over time12:25
joergbats are lovely creatures.12:25
* enyc wonders what is sensible precautions for those going to cycling training camp in spain =)12:26
minthoshttps://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cute+bat12:26
enycI don't like the idea of large dinner in town sort of thing like used to happen!12:26
sdfgsdfgcrazy cnts with sonar sensors flying around12:26
joerg>>will evolve to be less deadly<< also already completely debunked as basing on false assumptions12:28
enycjoerg: is the less-deadly'ness just "by accident" "incidental"  "by luck" etc.?12:28
joergthere's no incentive for the virus to _not_ kill people _after_ they have spread the virus12:28
joergit works for a disease that is infectious as long as you suffer from the infection. This doesn't apply to covid12:29
joergself-isolation as soon as people notice severe symtoms further counteracts this evolutionary pressure to "get milder"12:31
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Private jet sales and flights soar during pandemic travel confusion → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra4y6o/private_jet_sales_and_flights_soar_during/12:31
Telvanajoerg: debunked? Apparently you're ignoring science12:32
dTaldarsie: that's pretty far down the list of reasons to become vegan12:35
dTalI find it hard to imagine the individual who would be convinced by that line of argument, but not by all the arguments that existed prior to covid-1912:36
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country12:41
sdfgsdfgI'll close off by arguing against modern science and the respirators now. They probably damage lungs and get people killed faster12:41
joergTelvana: no, I'm quoting scientists. What makes you think I'd "ignore science"? I'm an engineer and scientist12:42
sdfgsdfgImagine hospitals using a humidifier with eucalyptus and herb extracts that actually have strong antiviral properties12:42
joergTelvana: maybe you didn't understand what I wrote?12:43
dTal>I'll close off by arguing against modern science12:45
dTalnuff said really12:45
sdfgsdfgmy final trolling attempt lol12:45
joergtrolls not appreciated in here. It's no entertainment channel12:46
sdfgsdfgwe,,12:47
sdfgsdfgI do mean it12:47
sdfgsdfggo research the respirators and lung damage man12:47
sdfgsdfgsee ifi t was a trolling attempt or scientific truth12:47
sdfgsdfgI was joking about trolling, it's a double negative. So I was dead serious.12:49
Telvanajoerg: considering I work with the health department and every epidemiologist I've ever spoken with says that it will evolve to be less deadly and more contagious before it becomes endemic, I think I'll trust their word over someone random on the internet12:49
joergwe had that discussion a year ago, please refer to chanlog12:50
TelvanaYou really think I'm going to dig up a year old conversation? I'm quite confused12:51
sdfgsdfghe's german12:51
sdfgsdfgdo it12:51
joergwhile generally correct, the "it becomes less deadly" doesn't really apply to a virus that has the major infectios timespan even before symptoms kick in12:51
joergand yes, this been a fallacy even many epidemiologists fell for, until maybe a year ago12:52
TelvanaConsidering that the infection vector is most prevalent 2-3 days before symptomatic, it's really no different than most viruses12:52
Telvanaumm12:53
corujait may even be an advantage for this kind of virus to kill its host after some time to relatively more hosts not infected yet, with a better chance of reproducing12:53
Telvanafor now, coruja12:54
TelvanaNatural immunity still comes into play here12:54
TelvanaIt *does* of course wane with time as a lot of other viruses do12:54
sdfgsdfgyou can only get certificate with natural immunity in some countries, most do not recognize it to be as safe as the vax, but it also depends on whether it was symptomatic right12:55
sdfgsdfgany science ref on this would be nice, it's confusing to me12:55
TelvanaNatural immunity is seemingly mostly ignored, because the data isn't there yet12:57
TelvanaWe simply don't know how long natural immunity lasts12:57
dTalsdfgsdfg: if you're serious - can you elaborate on " research the respirators and lung damage man"12:58
sdfgsdfgits not an alex jones episode let me bring some links12:59
dTalbecause as I understand it, while respirators can damage lungs, it's a tradeoff that's considered worthwhile because without the respirator you'll just suffocate immediately12:59
sdfgsdfgof course, rewards would far outweigh the risks12:59
TelvanaAs for "mask usage" and "lung damage" you realize there are people who have been wearing respirators for 12 hours a day since the day we invented them, right?12:59
dTalI remember some stat from the start of the pandemic that only 20% of people put on respirators survive12:59
dTalTelvana: Sorry, we're not talking about ventilators, not masks.13:00
dTal*we're talking13:00
dTaljust using the wrong term13:00
TelvanaI have heard there is lung damage from ventilators, btw. But that's to be expected, lungs are not meant to be forced to work the way they are, but that's also why hospitals are now delaying a ventilator until there is absolutely no other choice13:01
joergI as well learned and believed the age old "it gets less deadly" mantra, until a year ago some epidemiologists and virologists elaborated on the obvious lack of any dynamics that would give SARS-COV2 an evolutionary incentive to evolve that way13:01
dTalAnyway - only 20% put on ventilators survived, but without the ventilator approximately 0% would13:01
Telvana^^13:01
dTalit's a last resort thing13:01
Telvanacorrect13:01
sdfgsdfgbut that's my point, I think we leave too much space for human error, the pressure might be more sensitive at different times etc, so many other things13:01
sdfgsdfghttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000368702100191513:01
Telvanajoerg: then why are the world class experts I speak with on a daily basis still say it's true?13:02
joergI'm eager to learn what is the mechanism that falsifies that13:02
sdfgsdfgAccording to the Swiss Cheese Model, hazardous situations occur due to an unfavorable sequence of several errors and contributing factors caused by holes in different securing layers (Reason, 2000). Human performance is not constant and errors are to be expected (St.Pierre and Hofinger, 2014; Kohn et al., 2000).13:02
dTalrespectfully, I do not think that replacing the ventilators with "a humidifier with eucalyptus and herb extracts that actually have strong antiviral properties" is going to save lives13:02
sdfgsdfgso that last part about human errors being expected13:02
joergTelvana: you tell me, you talk with them13:02
TelvanadTal: I don't either - might as well inject bleach13:02
dTalNor is it probably true that they "get people killed faster"13:03
sdfgsdfga survey would be appropriate13:03
TelvanaOne thing I've learned from COVID is that if it's going to kill you, it's going to kill you regardless of what practice is done to save you13:03
sdfgsdfgI don't see any13:03
dTalTelvana: that's... kinda tautological?13:03
joergTelvana: please go ask them what's the mechanism behind this, specifically for SARS-COV213:04
TelvanaWell, what I mean by that is there is only so much modern medicine can do13:04
dTalYou're basically saying that no medical treatment of any kind is possible13:04
sdfgsdfgand in that much there are expected errors13:04
TelvanaNot that what we've done doesn't save people's lives as it does, but when you get to the end of the road with treatment we've got nothing else to do13:04
Telvanathere is no magical bullet13:04
dTalsdfgsdfg: are you familiar with the "motte and bailey" argument13:05
sdfgsdfgI just read about it :D13:06
dTalit's when you make a ludicrous and outlandish claim, and then when you're called out on it walk it back to some completely defensible position while pretending not to have done so13:06
sdfgsdfgI'm not alone13:06
dTalfor example, saying things like "ventilators get people killed faster" and "hospitals should replace then with eucalyptus humidifiers"13:06
dTalthen walking it back to "ventilators are sometimes used incorrectly"13:07
sdfgsdfgoh now you put words in my mouth13:07
sdfgsdfgIve never ever said "replace"13:07
sdfgsdfgI was suggesting additional natural treatments13:08
dTalYou suggested, in virtually the same breath, that hospitals should a) stop using one thing and b) start using another thing13:08
sdfgsdfgI probably used the wrong word there if I said it13:08
dTalthat's called "replacing" even if you didn't use that specific word13:08
sdfgsdfgnow I explained what I intended to say, and corrected it13:08
dTalSo do you concede then that hospitals should *not* discontinue the use of ventilators when deemed medically appropriate?13:09
sdfgsdfgof course I'd rather not be opinionated on that front13:09
sdfgsdfgI concede13:09
BrainstormUpdates for Vietnam: +14591 cases (now 1.3 million), +223 deaths (now 26483), +209881 tests (now 69.9 million) since 7 hours ago — Iran: +3356 cases (now 6.1 million), +77 deaths (now 130277), +1418575 tests (now 39.4 million) since 7 hours ago — Laos: +889 cases (now 80722), +3 deaths (now 210), +3867 tests (now 820711) since 7 hours ago [... want %more?]13:10
de-factoKarl Lauterbach is new health minister of Germany! This is great news :)))13:20
joergre "becomes less deadly", I really genuinely wonder which virus or pathogen at large did that in the past. I can come up with a list like "rabies, plague, flu..." that didn't or stopped doing so a long time ago. I can't name any that actually obviously did13:22
joerghi de-facto ! :-D yeah Egal wie laut du Bach hoerst, immer hoert Karl lauter Bach ;-D13:24
de-factohehehe :) I am happy to hear this, he is exactly the best choice as he is the most competent in this position by far13:25
de-factofinally some good news about Germany13:26
joergI hope for his admisitrative skills on par with his epidemiologic knowledge13:26
joergyou know... politics :-/13:26
de-facto.title https://twitter.com/Karl_Lauterbach13:26
Brainstormde-facto: From twitter.com: Karl Lauterbach (@Karl_Lauterbach) | Hungary-based nitter instance by Hackerspace Szeged13:26
joergthen, he got a real army general to support him with administration ;-) STRIKE!13:28
BrainstormNew from New Scientist: Covid-19 news: Australia plans to vaccinate five to 11-year-olds: The latest coronavirus news updated every day including coronavirus cases, the latest news, features and interviews from New Scientist and essential information about the [... want %more?] → https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-australia-plans-to-vaccinate-five-to-11-year-olds/13:29
de-factoyep finally there is some hope for Germany13:30
joergI'm afraid there's not so much he can do right now that would show immediate effect, and in 8 or 12 weeks everybody feels disappointed because things went down the sewer despite of Lauterbach13:34
BrainstormUpdates for Finland: +3412 cases (now 194638), +23 deaths (now 1383) since 7 hours ago — Iceland: +309 cases (now 18642) since 7 hours ago — Malta: +81 cases (now 40015) since 7 hours ago — China: +42 cases (now 111783) since 7 hours ago13:35
* enyc meows13:35
joergwhat we'd need now: 2 weeks hard lockdown. Absolutely impossible for Lauterbach to make that happen, even if he intended to and tried very hard13:37
de-factoits gonna be Lindner vs Lauterbach, and Lindner is on the side of the money...13:37
joergso Lauterbach or not, I expect a winter that's the evil older sibling of last winter13:38
joergit's probably too late to chance anything about that13:39
joergchange*13:39
de-factoits never too late to start improving things13:39
joergyeah, but we'll see the results no sooner than March 202213:40
enycupdates for Spain ?13:40
joerg%cases spain13:40
Brainstormjoerg: Spain has had 5.2 million confirmed cases (11.0% of all people) and 88159 deaths (1.7% of cases; 1 in 534 people) as of 7 hours ago. 66.2 million tests were done (7.9% positive). 38.4 million were vaccinated (81.5%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain&legacy=no13:40
Brainstormjoerg: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Spain, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it.13:40
enyc%cases England13:41
Brainstormenyc: England, United Kingdom has had 8.9 million confirmed cases (15.9% of all people) and 126622 deaths (1.4% of cases; 1 in 442 people) as of 7 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=England&legacy=no13:41
Brainstormenyc: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about England, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it.13:41
joergde-facto: on the bright side: some 50% of germans think the anti-corona measures are insufficient and some 70% want Lauterbach for health minister. Let's hope there's some synergy creating opportunities13:46
joergmaybe even more powerful than Lindner13:47
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Bawanio: /* Further reading */ * WHO: [https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron Update on Omicron]: Further reading: * WHO: [https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron Update on Omicron] ← Previous revision Revision as of 12:42, 6 December 2021 Line [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php13:48
joerg^^^  >>Preliminary data suggests that there are increasing rates of hospitalization in South Africa, but this may be due to increasing overall numbers of people becoming infected, rather than a result of specific infection with Omicron<< UH... HUH!13:50
joergthat's what you get when politics excel13:52
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: natural logarithm: natural logarithm ← Previous revision Revision as of 12:55, 6 December 2021 Line 224: Line 224: A study suggests that Omicron has picked up one of its mutations, ins214EPE, from the HCoV-229E [[common cold]] coronavirus strain, a genetic sequence also [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php13:57
joergerrr13:59
BrainstormUpdates for Belarus: +1312 cases (now 665125), +14 deaths (now 5176), +14523 tests (now 10.5 million) since 8 hours ago — Romania: +803 cases (now 1.8 million), +54 deaths (now 57153), +17105 tests (now 16.2 million) since 8 hours ago — Croatia: +728 cases (now 631765), +51 deaths (now 11269), +2732 tests (now 3.5 million) since 8 hours ago [... want %more?]14:00
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: /* Epidemiology */ avoid river-of-blue links: Epidemiology: avoid river-of-blue links ← Previous revision Revision as of 13:05, 6 December 2021 Line 222: Line 222: Detectable changes in levels of COVID-19 in wastewater samples from South Africa's [[Gauteng]] province were [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php14:07
BrainstormNew from Politico: 2022: The Netherlands holds off on restrictions for the unvaccinated — for now → https://www.politico.eu/article/the-netherlands-to-not-move-ahead-with-controversial-2g-covid-system-for-now/14:27
joerghttps://blog.fluxcoil.net/posts/2021/12/society-watching-and-corona-in-japan/ some irrelevant background14:35
joergjapan vs germany14:35
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Sandstein: Sandstein: Changing short description from "Variant of SARS-CoV-2" to "November 2021 variant of SARS-CoV-2" (Shortdesc helper) → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php14:36
joerg^^^ those seem flawed, link is not useful14:37
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +18833 cases (now 1.1 million), +16 deaths (now 11628), +158413 tests (now 12.8 million) since 8 hours ago — Bangladesh: +277 cases (now 1.6 million), +4 deaths (now 28005), +38369 tests (now 11.0 million) since 8 hours ago14:37
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Denmark reports 'concerning' spike in Omicron variant as cases triple in 48 hours | 05DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/ra7kb6/denmark_reports_concerning_spike_in_omicron/14:46
BrainstormUpdates for Denmark: +1648 cases (now 516257), +366512 tests (now 96.1 million) since 9 hours ago — Bosnia and Herz.: +1283 cases (now 278511), +93 deaths (now 12780), +20056 tests (now 1.4 million) since 9 hours ago — Iraq: +615 cases (now 2.1 million), +18 deaths (now 23903), +19515 tests (now 16.5 million) since 9 hours ago [... want %more?]15:02
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: During COVID-19 lockdowns, parents' use of aggressive discipline linked to stress "in the moment" and not overall levels of stress, a study in Ohio found. Use of corporal punishment and psychological aggression was highest late in the day, when stress [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/ra7u3e/during_covid19_lockdowns_parents_use_of/15:15
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Ftrebien: Paxlovid and molnupiravir are used for treament, not for prophylaxis: Paxlovid and molnupiravir are used for treament, not for prophylaxis ← Previous revision Revision as of 14:20, 6 December 2021 Line 196: Line 196: On 29 November, the WHO said cases and infections are [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php15:24
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): No change in the exponential line (log plot) for new cases at Omicron's epicenter, Gauteng twitter.com/chrischirp/sta… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/146786243100313190615:34
BrainstormUpdates for Libya: +479 cases (now 375468), +6 deaths (now 5499), +3875 tests (now 1.9 million) since 9 hours ago — Kenya: +32 cases (now 255469) since 9 hours ago — Yemen: +9 cases (now 10034), +1 deaths (now 1955) since 9 hours ago — United Kingdom: +9 cases (now 10.5 million), +1 deaths (now 146056) since 9 hours ago15:39
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Omicron has the potential to promote much needed things to happen in the United StatesVaccinations and boosterswashingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12… @BelleTimsitContact tracingapnews.com/article/corona… @apheatherh @BobbyCalvan pic.twitter.com/sySo2RAx33 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/146786477833272524815:44
joergLjL: do you get a newline or whatever that gets filtered out but should get replaced by a space instead? >>and boosterswashingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12… ...<<15:47
joergclearly somewhere at some tier strings get concatenated without addin a FieldSeparator15:52
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Covid-19: Hundreds of refugee and international doctors join NHS through innovative scheme: The medical support worker (MSW) scheme, introduced by NHS England to boost the workforce during the covid-19 pandemic, has enabled refugee and international doctors who may otherwise have been... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2993.short16:03
BrainstormUpdates for Serbia: +1565 cases (now 1.3 million), +38 deaths (now 11955), +13837 tests (now 6.9 million) since 10 hours ago16:04
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Nature Rev Immunol (@NatRevImmunol): The germinal centre B cell response to SARS-CoV-2 dlvr.it/SDrb8Z pic.twitter.com/BeqWdW0YKZ → https://twitter.com/NatRevImmunol/status/146787196507549287216:13
BrainstormUpdates for Chile: +1501 cases (now 1.8 million), +30 deaths (now 38531), +59999 tests (now 26.0 million) since 10 hours ago — Canada: +626 cases (now 1.8 million), +3 deaths (now 29824) since 10 hours ago — Azerbaijan: +585 cases (now 596973), +16 deaths (now 7983) since 10 hours ago — Sri Lanka: +568 cases (now 568250), +23 deaths (now 14484) since 10 hours ago16:35
joergLjL: :-D http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/__covid-19.2021-03-01.log.html#t2021-03-01T19:21:40  >>LjL:i think i'd rather have my second shot later, but with something covering variants<<16:39
joergquite some prevision16:40
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): "Omicron: Need for speedy vaccine redesign, says Tom Wenseleers " telegraphindia.com/india/omicron-… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/146787965154036123116:42
joergTelvana: just for your convenience, so you have a text to phrase your questions to those leading scientists you talk to at a daily basis: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/covid-19-variants-omicron-may-not-evolve-less-danger-time-nervtag-uk  there's more and older stuff, actually googling for https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=virus%20evolves%20towards%20less%20dangerous yields 90%+ explanations which it *WONT* do >> while evolution16:48
joergwould drive Covid to spread more easily the virus might not become less dangerous. “Most of the transmission has already happened by the time people get hospitalised,” Ferguson told the Commons science and technology committee. “The virus cares about replicating very fast within the respiratory tract and getting out into the environment. If that happens to kill somebody 10 days later the virus really doesn’t care.”<<16:48
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): And for those who say "but not a single person died from Omicron". Well, that's not quite correct: the "it's mild" Tshwane report found that of 166 Covid-positive patients admitted to this 1 hospital in the last 2 weeks, 9 died of Covid & 5 out of 33 [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/146788316390934528116:52
joergs/which it/why it/16:56
joergI'd be more than happy why this isn't correct16:57
joerg...to learn why this isn't correct16:58
BrainstormUpdates for Austria: +4625 cases (now 1.2 million), +48 deaths (now 12844), +380547 tests (now 112.9 million) since 11 hours ago17:00
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Beansohgod: Fixed an inaccuracy with Russia's case count.: Fixed an inaccuracy with Russia's case count. ← Previous revision Revision as of 15:52, 6 December 2021 Line 319: Line 319: | 11 | 11 | 24 | 24 ⚫ |- ⚫ ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Russia}} ⚫ | 10 {{cite [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php17:01
dzhoLjL: the PM from Bakunin was just continue to argue about the US political partisanship around vaccinations. I don't know how relevant to you it remains, or if it had much to do with channel operations to begin with.17:05
dzhoMy main problem with it was that it was an unsolicited PM. I might have given an ok to pursue the subject by pm if asked first here.17:06
dzhoanyway, sorry this is a bit late I just figured I'd /unignore and then see if that nick was still here.17:06
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +20965 cases (now 2.8 million), +34 deaths (now 20152) since 11 hours ago — Kosovo: +4 cases (now 161139) since 11 hours ago17:37
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Event: EMA regular press briefing on COVID-19, from 09/12/2021 to 09/12/2021 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/events/ema-regular-press-briefing-covid-19-917:40
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Source here: coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/146789693783589684017:50
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell): As of yesterday, 16 states have detected #Covid cases caused by the #Omicron variant. cdc.gov/coronavirus/20… pic.twitter.com/TWsvDuFFic → https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/146789826851658957917:59
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +9494 cases (now 5.1 million), +92 deaths (now 134287), +301560 tests (now 122.6 million) since 12 hours ago — Jordan: +5811 cases (now 981767), +26 deaths (now 11787), +54223 tests (now 12.5 million) since 12 hours ago — Greece: +4927 cases (now 971148), +121 deaths (now 18716), +103253 tests (now 38.3 million) since 12 hours ago [... want %more?]18:02
LjL-Matrixdzho, that's fine, unsolicited pm is normally just a matter of manners I guess but when you're muted from the channel then it becomes a bit more in my opinion. I wanted to know whether they just felt the need to say something topical but couldn't due to the mute (shouldn't, but I can kind if understand) or they were actively abusing the ability to still be reading the channel18:21
LjL-MatrixKind of*18:21
Dredd<dzho> "My main problem with it was that..." <- They were quieted here I think so it would have been possible for them to do that 🤷18:23
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: /* Epidemiology */ less of the "implies" here: Epidemiology: less of the "implies" here ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:23, 6 December 2021 Line 226: Line 226: In the UK, the logistic growth rate of Omicron-associated S-gene target failure (SGTF) cases over S-gene [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php18:28
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: Putative host origins of RNA insertions in SARS-CoV-2 genomes: I concur with Kristian’s cautionary note as to source for the Omicron insert, that actually seems from the alignment to be GCCAGAAGA (not that highlighted).  In the -1 reading [... want %more?] → https://virological.org/t/putative-host-origins-of-rna-insertions-in-sars-cov-2-genomes/761/418:38
joergLjL-Matrix: I think https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SARS-CoV-2_Omicron_variant&action=history shouldn't be a source for Brainstorm messages, at least not without further filters18:41
BrainstormUpdates for Jamaica: +67 cases (now 91536), +952 tests (now 678165) since 12 hours ago18:46
LjL-Matrixjoerg: I usually put Wikipedia history feeds on -ticker but I thought at least for a while this one might give us some important fresh news18:46
BrainstormNew from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Uhooep: /* Statistics */ 336 UK: Statistics: 336 UK ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:42, 6 December 2021 Line 245: Line 245: |- |- ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} | 246 {{ Cite [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php18:47
joergI hoped for finding the "this is a minor edit" flag getting used there, but obviously not18:47
joergit lacks any usable URL, and it adds lots of useless noise like >>Previous revision Revision as of 17:42, 6 December 2021 Line 245: Line 245: |- |- ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left"...<<18:49
LjLjoerg, yeah i haven't found filters for it. the bot has the "usual" regex filters that it has for all the other COVID feeds, but of course that tends to *always* apply for that feed ("omicron" is in the filter, for a start!)18:52
LjLi found my computer frozen when i came here... did the bot just post updates to this article in a machine gun way?18:53
joergI see the problems, just mentioning it18:53
joergno18:53
LjLalso by the way, you'll see a bit more "Updates for..." numbers now, because yesterday i wiped the database after realizing the bot had completely failed to report on Norways crazily rising cases since September :\ but over time when cases are no longer "the highest" in a given country, it should stop reporting on that country again18:54
joerghttp://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/search?q=New+from+SARS-CoV-2+Omicron+variant+on+Wikipedia18:54
LjLlike for instance, in "Italy: +9494 cases", that bold generally means it's a record number. but it's not (unfortunately), but with the database wiped, it thinks it is18:54
LjLwell, i'd say it is a bit too frequent, and also unfortunately what it posts doesn't really make it very clear what the actual change is. plus, the URL is somehow https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php instead of the link to the actual change18:55
LjLso all in all it's not very useful unfortunately (it's a shame because wikipedia sometimes catches on some new things very early, although with COVID there are wide discretionary sanctions against adding things from primary sources, which i'm not sure i totally agree with, but i haven't been active on wikipedia for a while, so...), i'll move it to -ticker18:56
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Suspected Omicron outbreak closes Paisley primary school: High numbers of staff in self-isolation prompted the closure of Todholm Primary in Paisley. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-5954869418:56
LjL%title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/146790593513791488019:09
BrainstormLjL: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "I don't think so. No virus is known to have self-attenuated, much less in some mysterious tradeoff for greater infectiousness." | nitter19:09
LjL(about Omicron not being milder, he also mentions hospitalizations in SA don't reflect that idea, but i found it interesting he actually makes the claim no known virus got wilder, considering how much repeated the myth that "they are all bound to" has been)19:10
BrainstormNew from Contagion Live: Plans to Vaccinate Children Against COVID-19 Among Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Parents: Parents who were themselves vaccinated against COVID-19 were more likely to vaccinate their children than parents who were not, yet even [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/plans-to-vaccinate-children-against-covid-19-among-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-parents19:16
BrainstormUpdates for Malaysia: +4262 cases (now 2.7 million), +38 deaths (now 30652), +90009 tests (now 38.5 million) since 13 hours ago — Singapore: +662 cases (now 269873), +4 deaths (now 763) since 13 hours ago — Moldova: +495 cases (now 366751), +27 deaths (now 9244), +4835 tests (now 2.2 million) since 13 hours ago19:17
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +50859 cases (now 10.6 million), +42 deaths (now 146097) since 13 hours ago — Portugal: +2216 cases (now 1.2 million), +14 deaths (now 18551) since 13 hours ago — Israel: +700 cases (now 1.3 million), +5 deaths (now 8209) since 13 hours ago — Algeria: +193 cases (now 211662), +8 deaths (now 6111) since 13 hours ago19:29
joergLjL: grep for \(+[0-9]{2,3}\)  ?19:32
joergalso seems there are "chaper edit" and "summary" tags?19:34
joergchapter. Didn't see them though19:35
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Suspected Omicron outbreak closes Paisley primary school: High numbers of staff in self-isolation prompted the closure of Todholm Primary in Paisley. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-5954869419:44
LjLjoerg, the thing is i'd have to change the bot code a lot, because right now i can't have a different regex *per source*. all the ##covid-19 sources use the same regex (which is just a very long list|of|terms mostly)19:46
de-factohey LjL how is your arm?20:01
LjLde-facto, just hurts a bit, like yesterday, not much20:02
de-factonice so not much side effects?20:02
de-factohow about the sneezing? still ashooOOing?20:02
LjLde-facto, still feel like i have a bit of a small cold. but that's probably what it is :P20:03
lastshellLjL for the booster ?20:03
LjLalso i have an SMS with my new COVID certificate \o/20:03
LjLlastshell, yes20:03
LjL(and by "\o/" i mean the whole thing is sad but whatever)20:03
de-factoyeah indeed, thats the goal, making it a minor cold in an ideal world20:03
lastshellweird for all covid shots I just got arm pain no cold syntoms :(20:03
LjLde-facto, err are you saying i actually have covid? :P20:03
de-factoi am saying your immune system is training in the right places20:04
de-factoe.g. mucus20:04
LjLlastshell, me neither, so yesterday i was a bit worried about the cold symptoms, especially since, you know, well, i tend to be a worried person, but also, the vaccine center is the most crowded place i've been at in ages20:04
de-factona i dont think you have covid, would not make sense20:04
LjLde-facto, i'm not convinced it's that :P20:04
LjLbesides, i had no sneezing or anything like that the first two shots!20:04
de-factosome people did not even had their arm hurting in the first two shots20:05
de-factothough on 3rd they said it did hurt their arm for 3 days20:05
de-factoyeah it does not directly correlate with immunity, but i think its a good sign anyhow20:06
lastshellso far omicron seems more less lethal than delta20:06
BrainstormUpdates for Ireland: +2911 cases (now 597161) since 14 hours ago — Luxembourg: +935 cases (now 91709), +5 deaths (now 885), +10823 tests (now 3.7 million) since 14 hours ago — Dominican Rep.: +232 cases (now 408748), +3235 tests (now 2.5 million) since 14 hours ago — Albania: +172 cases (now 201902), +5 deaths (now 3115), +1440 tests (now 1.4 million) since 14 hours ago20:07
de-factodo we have data on that already? id not follow the latest news about it yet20:07
lastshellwell is not oficial yet20:07
lastshelldoctors says they need more time deaths occur after 2 or 3 weeks of infection20:07
de-factoyeah indeed20:08
lastshellI hope is less lethat20:08
de-factohonestly i doubt it (unless some super antigen became broken that did annoy the immune system and trigger cytokine storm with previous variants)20:09
lastshellalso we don't know yet hot effective are the vaccines + booster agains omicron20:10
lastshell*how20:10
de-factoyeah we dont know, yet i would guess preventing severe progressions while not really preventing infections20:10
LjLde-facto, my arm really didn't hurt on the second shot. i think that may be more down to how good the injection was (and how relaxed i kept my arm)20:11
LjLon my first, the arm hurt for 2-3 days. not *much*, but it kept on doing it20:11
de-factoe.g. T-cell induced immune reactions probably more or less are intact still (due to their memory on smaller parts of the s-protein) while most likely some degree of B-cell antibodies immuno-evasion would be plausible with that many mutations in the s-protein20:12
LjLlastshell, it's not just "not official", there are clueful people actively saying we do NOT have real indications it's milder20:13
de-factoLjL, though i think the arm hurts not due to the needle but more due to the s-protein blooming provoking T-cells to go berserk (inducing local inflammation etc)20:13
LjLlike Eric Topol and Brian Hjelle, which got posted by Brainstorm20:13
LjLde-facto, i think for me it hurt mostly from the needle, because it started hurting almost right away, and it hurts when i move it in certain ways, or if i lie on it. it barely hurts if it am just keeping it relaxed20:14
de-factofor me it did not hurt a bit *directly* after the injection, began to hurt roughly 3h after it and lasted for 3 days (with both 1st and 2nd Moderna)20:14
LjLmaybe i don't have an immune system20:14
lastshellLjL I think the doctor from sudafrica said that most cases are mild20:14
LjLde-facto, i got the first small "shock" of pain already during my 15min20:14
LjLlastshell, no, *a* doctor from south africa said *the cases they've seen* have been mild20:14
de-factoLjL, sure you have an immune system otherwise you would not be alive anymore20:14
LjLbut it's also true that they were all young people20:14
LjLSouth Africa has a very limited amount of elderly people compared to say Europe20:15
joergre20:15
LjLadditionally, they have a 90% or so prevalence of COVID already, so, sadly, many people who were going to die... have already died20:15
LjLplease don't propagate this "milder" thing until we *know. properly.*20:15
de-factoafaik the consensus still is that there is no direct correlation between reactogenicity and immunogenicity (e.g. between magnitude of side effects and magnitude of vaccine induced immunity)20:15
LjLespecially while authoritative people warn that it's not at all like that20:15
LjLyou can't take the early rumors from one south african doctor and perpetuate them!20:16
lastshellI see so could be worst omicron, because right now the data we have is from young patients20:16
LjLi mean, you can, it's the sort of thing tha keeps happening. but it's dumb and counterproductive, sorry20:16
lastshellyeah I get your point right now is sort of like anecdotal data20:16
LjLlastshell, or it could be just the same as other variants; however, it does seem much more infectious, and that already makes it less mild in the sense that you have more patients, which is more of a problem for the healthcare system20:16
LjLa much more infectious variant could be a big problem even if it's somewhat milder. that's also an important thing to keep in mind whenever framing it as "milder"20:17
joergLjL: perl PCRE extended regex?20:17
LjLjoerg, Python20:17
joergsame20:18
lastshellalso we don't know long covid effects in omicron20:18
LjLi think Python has some of its own idioms in its regexes20:18
LjLbut anyway, i don't really use anything special20:18
LjLjoerg, r'(coronavirus|COVID|pandemic|epidemic|SARS|face mask|sanitizer|new cases|Wuhan|Hubei|Lombardy|Lombardia|Moderna|quarantena|quarantine|isolation|lockdown|swab|Milan|\btests\b|\bICU\b|antibod|pcr|dexamethasone|remdesivir|chloroquine|hcq|\bPPE\b|n95|aerosol|airborne|triage|reopen|il-6|il-8|anti-tnf|cytokine|vaccin|biontech|pfizer|astrazeneca|sanofi|sputnik v|sinovac|sinopharm|curevac|coronavac|B117|B.1.1.7|UK variant|SA variant|variants? of concern|d614g|e484k20:19
LjL|n501y|s477g|s477n|p681h|n440k|green pass|plasminogen|\btpa\b\|delta variant\|beta variant\|lambda variant\|uk variant\|omicron\|indian variant\|brazilian variant\|B.1.617.2\|AY.3)'20:19
LjLwhew20:19
joergdo you grep or rewrite ?20:19
joerglooks like plain grep20:19
joergno s/foo(\1/20:19
LjLi just show an item if and only if that stupidly long regex is found in it20:20
LjLno, not "sed"20:20
LjLit's basically just a list of keywords where the easiest way to do that was to have a regex (also, it's not case sensitive)20:20
joergmaybe I can come up with a PCRE for wiki, won't clean out the trash but should be able to detect if a subtantial edit aka (+99) etc20:21
LjLjoerg, but again, the above applies to *all* the feeds thrown into this channel20:22
BrainstormNew from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/75/20:22
de-factoheh LjL but where is B.1.1.529?20:22
LjLso a regex specific to wiki would have to somehow also not filter out everything else20:22
joergyes, I know20:22
LjLde-facto, nowhere, i only added omicron :P i'll add it now20:22
LjLdefinitely do tell me terms that may need to be added, i am scatterbrained20:22
joergLjL: something like "NOT (-..)"20:23
de-factoalso add a second version without the dots, e.g. B1152920:23
LjLalso uh why am i using sometimes just "|" and sometimes "\|", that's not right ;(20:23
LjLde-facto, is that actually used? i don't think i've seen it20:24
joergwould be prone to false negatives on headlines like "fewer cases of covid (-312)"20:24
de-factogoogle b11529 265.000 results, b.1.1.529 9.710.000 results, omicron 201.000.000 results (holy crap ...)20:25
LjLjoerg, that's still covid news though, isn't it? it's more if a given source tends to give "unimportant" news then at some point it should be removed20:25
LjLde-facto, well omicron is also a letter, i'm sure it was on google before too :P20:25
LjLde-facto, try trends.google.com to see it in time20:25
de-factoyeah indeed20:25
joergI'm ashamed of my town, just went shopping and almost ran into a few hundred idiots with drums and wistles and shouting, and lots of police all around >:-(20:26
LjLhttps://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=B.1.1.529,B11529,Omicron20:26
LjLstill Omicron was basically never a search term until now20:27
LjLadd Delta also, that one is comparable20:27
de-factoyeah spiked only recently20:28
LjLjoerg, today here two young idiots, no criminals, in the metro hit an 80 year old man on the head with glass bottles because he asked them to wear their masks :\20:30
LjLi think he's in serious conditions20:30
LjLone of them has been arrested but the other one is underage so he hasn't been20:30
LjLpretty revolting20:30
dzhooof20:31
BrainstormUpdates for Eswatini: +347 cases (now 47851), +931 tests (now 395038) since 14 hours ago — Ethiopia: +119 cases (now 372334), +4 deaths (now 6804), +4117 tests (now 3.9 million) since 14 hours ago — Guatemala: +39 cases (now 619891), +6 deaths (now 15992) since 14 hours ago — Eritrea: +26 cases (now 7484) since 14 hours ago20:32
* joerg feels like dawn of Mad Max20:33
joergyou heard a few weeks ago a gas station employee got shot dead because he asked some idiot to wear mask. Not in my town but in D20:35
joergI wonder how long until shooting back starts20:36
BrainstormNew from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Aivita Biomedical Inc: AV-COVID-19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/74/20:42
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: TESTO COORDINATO DEL DECRETO-LEGGE 21 settembre 2021, n.127: Ripubblicazione del testo del decreto-legge  21  settembre  2021,  n.127, coordinato con la legge di conversione 19 novembre 2021, n. 165,recante: «Misure urgenti per assicurare lo svolgimento  in  sicurezzadel [... want %more?] → http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2021/12/06/21A07254/SG20:51
LjLwelcome "super green pass"20:54
Arsaneritwhat's that?20:54
LjLArsanerit, a mess of a compromise. from today on in italy, the EU covid certificate ("green pass" here) will have to "levels": the one you can obtain only with vaccination will be the only one allowed for some things (like dining indoors), and that's been dubbed "super green pass" or "reinforced green pass". on the other hand, the normal green pass i.e. the one that you can also obtain every 2/3 days by taking an antigen or PCR test will now be required for things20:57
LjLit wasn't before, such as all public transport (for long-distance transport, you now need a super green pass, though)20:57
LjLtwo* "levels"20:57
LjLspeaking of which, i have a green pass to download and print...20:57
LjL(yes, print! because i'm a 20th century man)20:58
ArsaneritLjL: That sounds like what they call 2G and 3G in Germany.20:58
Arsaneritalthough there's also 1G, 2G+, and 3G+.20:58
LjLArsanerit, sort of, yes, but... well now that you say there's also those ones, it sounds like it may be even more of a mess than our system ;(20:59
joergLjL: that's called 3G / 2G here and we also got 2G+ which is "vaccinated PLUS test"20:59
LjLbut anyway, my understanding was that "2G" meant mostly "now the EU certificate will only be valid if you're either vaccinated or recovered, period"20:59
LjLwhile in our case we're creating two "tiers"20:59
LjLbut maybe i misunderstood, or didn't understand the nuances, of the German/Austrian/NL system21:00
LjLjoerg, oh, that's interesting, what is that used for? it sounds like something de-facto should/would be happy about :P21:00
joerghotspots afaik21:00
LjLsince he always said it was stupid to forego testing for vaccinated people in some circumstances like air travel21:00
LjLjoerg, so in certain location you just have to be vaccinated *and* tested for your certificate to be valid in any situation?21:01
LjLhow long does the "testing certificate" last?21:01
joergin some situations like restaurants etc, in towns that have... >1000 incidence?21:01
lastshellI wonder with the current political things in US they will create a covid passport21:02
joergI think cert lasts 24h21:02
joerghonestly I got tired following up on the frequent changes of rules21:03
de-factoLjL, yeah i have to deal with that everyday21:03
Arsanerit1G = test required, vaccination status irrelevant; 2G = recovered or vaccinated; 2G+ = (recovered or vaccinated) + test (antigen or PCR); 3G = recovered, vaccinated, or tested (antigen or PCR); 3G+ = recovered, vaccinated, or tested (PCR only)21:03
ArsaneritAnd when test can be either antigen or PCR, the antigen tests have 24 hour validity but the PCR tests have 48 hour validity21:03
Arsaneritand recently I heard of yet more variations21:04
LjLjoerg, that's stricter than us then. in the cases when the "testing certificate" is valid, it's still 48 hours for antigen and 72 hours for PCR. they had said they would probably change that, but then they didn't21:04
joergArsanerit to the rescue :-)21:04
LjLi guess in Italy's situation one must always remember "the government" is actually made up of... every single party except one21:04
LjLArsanerit, i'm not sure if that nuance is good or a massive complication21:05
de-factothose "G"s are stupid imho, "Ge-Tested, Ge-Impft, Ge-Nesen, Ge-Storben, Ge-Nervt, ..." how would international students even know what it means if there is a big "3G only" on the doors?21:05
LjLi think nobody would understand that system here :P21:05
LjLlol21:05
Arsaneritde-facto: don't forget Gesund ;)21:05
joergde-facto: full ack21:05
LjLalso, just about every single german past participle starts with "g" (okay not *all* of them, but most)21:05
LjLand21:06
LjLi bet anti-vax people will make a connection with 5G :P21:06
de-factoheh maybe they switch off LTE on their mobile phones and think they comply with the rules :P21:06
LjLha21:06
joergge-stoerte21:06
de-facto"yeah i switched to 3G reception only" LOL21:06
Arsaneritat my workplace it still says AHA+L-3G, where 3G is Geschlossene Räume, Gedränge, und Gruppen21:07
Arsanerithttps://www.t-online.de/gesundheit/krankheiten-symptome/id_88721420/corona-formel-des-rki-was-bedeutet-aha-+-a-+-l-3g-.html21:07
joergwell, they love baby speech to communicate their brilliant ideas. AHAL anybody? I call it ALAH meanwhile21:07
Arsanerit"3G Vermeiden!" says a big poster near the entrance of my workplace at the German federal government :-D21:07
Arsanerit(or something to that effect)21:07
Arsanerit"Gesund", however, is not a past participle :)21:08
BrainstormUpdates for United States: +4656 cases (now 50.0 million), +88 deaths (now 808851) since 15 hours ago — Germany: +11810 cases (now 6.2 million), +222 deaths (now 103826) since 15 hours ago — Greenland: +39 cases (now 1621) since 15 hours ago — Cook Islands, New Zealand: +1 cases (now 2) since 15 hours ago21:09
ArsaneritThe Coronaschutzverordnung for Hessen is 23 pages of legalese21:11
joergHirschhausen, ARD: >>500 000 long covid, retirements<< - no news about that21:12
Arsaneritjoerg: Who is Hirschhausen?21:12
joergTV doctor21:12
joerghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckart_von_Hirschhausen21:13
ArsaneritI see.  Is he to be taken seriously?  I've only seen his name when seeing an announcement for "Hirschhausens quiz des Menschen!" which didn't seem entirely serious.21:13
joerghe's a commedian, but honest. I don't like him much, but he's a "good guy" anyway21:15
joergyou know those clown doctors for kids in hospitals? he kinda is that for adults21:16
Arsaneritoh no :(21:16
joerghowever he's not spreading BS21:16
joergright in this report, he's just moderator21:17
joergor reporter21:17
LjLwhat's this report?21:18
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Omicron SARS-CoV-2 variant: a new chapter in the COVID-19 pandemicA good and realistic summary.thelancet.com/journals/lance… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/146794906195745996821:20
joerghttps://www.ardmediathek.de/video/hirschhausens-check-up/hirschhausen-corona-ohne-ende/das-erste/Y3JpZDovL2Rhc2Vyc3RlLmRlL2hpcnNjaGhhdXNlbnMtY2hlY2stdXAvNDUyNDljMzQtOGMwYy00YzQ3LWI1OTktNDYwZTVhZDNiNjVm/21:21
joerg.title21:21
Brainstormjoerg: From www.ardmediathek.de: Hirschhausens Check-up: Hirschhausen - Corona ohne Ende? | ARD Mediathek21:21
Dredd<joerg> "you know those clown doctors for..." <- This isn't at thing we have in the UK 😀21:27
generai only know him from https://www.dasimpfbuch.de/21:29
DreddThis German G thing seems rather silly to me21:31
DreddIt's too complicated and not at all intuitive21:31
BrainstormUpdates for Turkey: +18063 cases (now 8.9 million), +187 deaths (now 78017), +354269 tests (now 109.8 million) since 15 hours ago — South Africa: +6381 cases (now 3.0 million), +9 deaths (now 89975), +24159 tests (now 19.8 million) since 15 hours ago — Lebanon: +824 cases (now 679625), +10 deaths (now 8785) since 15 hours ago [... want %more?]21:34
joergDredd: well, I only care about and have to deal with 3G and 2G. That's simple enough since both don't mean a thing to me, I'm vaccinated21:36
joerg2G+ only in hotspot towns/districts. And I never before heard of 1G and 3G+21:38
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Dec 06, 2021: COVID vaccine-related myocarditis COVID-19 and tuberculosis → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/covid-19-scan-dec-06-202121:38
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: An advocacy group seeks to broaden access to a Pfizer Covid-19 pill: In a bid to expand access to the Pfizer Covid-19 pill, an advocacy group is trying to create a path for generic manufacturers to sell the treatment in the Dominican… → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2021/12/06/pfizer-covid19-wto-dominican-republic/21:48
LjLjoerg, ugh, i could exercise my (practically non-existent) german on that one by turning on the subtitles, but i'm not sure i want to learn about all the horrors of long COVID right now :(21:49
joergI feel with you21:58
generait seems Sachsen/Saxonia has decided to limit public assemblies to 10 persons max. today.22:02
joergsummary: 500 000 cases of long covid in germany. Causes: blood clots and nerve damage. Possible treatment: hyperbaric oxigen therapy (1.4bar, an hour or somesuch, 7 sessions), or "blood cleaning"  (sorry, can't find the correct english term)22:02
joerggenera: seems they finally started enforcing that today22:02
Arsaneritgenera: including for vaccinated people?22:02
generaand mondays are the usual protest days too22:03
Arsaneritsince DDR days22:03
LjLgenera, that is wise, i think, given the Oslo cluster22:03
generauh22:03
ArsaneritMondays are for right-wing protests, Fridays for climate protests22:03
LjLthis thing is going to be a *lot* more of an issue wherever you have gatherings compared to Delta i'm afraid22:03
generai think the police now asks everyone of the 1000 ++22:03
generawell Sachsen has much higher incidents than Oslo i think22:04
LjLjoerg, i think hyperbaric oxygen has been proposed... for quite a few things, like i think even people with tinnitus tried it (they tried everything, though)22:04
joerg:nod:22:04
* LjL ponders ryouma and feels guilty again even though honestly he had forgotten for quite a while22:04
BrainstormUpdates for Trinidad and Tobago: +801 cases (now 75935), +19 deaths (now 2281), +1135 tests (now 458869) since 16 hours ago — Barbados: +105 cases (now 26200), +2 deaths (now 240) since 16 hours ago — Mauritania: +26 cases (now 39584), +2 deaths (now 842), +1673 tests (now 515803) since 16 hours ago — Monaco: +17 cases (now 3902) since 16 hours ago22:05
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Blood pressure up during pandemic? You're not alone, study finds: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Dec 06, 2021 Adults' blood pressures climbed during COVID-19, especially in women. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/blood-pressure-during-pandemic-youre-not-alone-study-finds22:16
spokojni[m]we are done :(22:21
Arsaneritdone how?22:24
lastshellspokojni[m] don't worry the end of the world is been posponed from now22:25
spokojni[m]aww22:25
spokojni[m]how much longer do we have?22:25
lastshellas a civilization now we should be worried in 205022:26
dTalLjL: perhaps this is one of those things the free market would be good at22:27
dTalput hyperbaric oxygen chambers in gyms, let people pay about the same as a sauna to use. All sorts of people will give it a go, and quickly a social consensus on what it's good for will be revealed22:28
BrainstormUpdates for New Zealand: +1 cases (now 12333) since 16 hours ago — Netherlands: +20967 cases (now 2.8 million), +35 deaths (now 20153) since 16 hours ago22:42
joergdTal: great approach. I heard the guy in that TV report said the health insurance doesn't pay for hyperbaric oxy therapy and he paid 3000 bucks for the 7 sessions he needed to recover from long covid22:51
joerghe said it's a bargain, otherwise he had retired from job, due to brain fog etc22:52
dTalwell, I'm sceptical that he didn't just recover by himself22:53
dTalhe's obviously motivated to believe that the huge sum of money he spent wasn't a waste22:53
dTalis there any plausible mechanism of actiion?22:53
joergthat's the maijor problem with long covid: nobody takes it serious22:54
dTalI take it quite seriously22:54
joerghe said the effect was immediate22:54
joergthe physiological mechanism is not entirely clear from that report, they said >>200 times oxygen availability at cells, which allows them to regenerate<<22:56
de-factosurprisingly my SpO2 went up from 96%-97% to 98%-99% recently, i am not sure what it means, maybe a late benefit from having quit smoking almost 1.5 years ago?22:57
de-factoi never have seen 99% on my SpO2 before22:57
joergthe physiological mechanism of long covid are blood clots clogging capillary blood vessels, so any arbitrary organ can suffer oxygen deficit. Makes hyperbaric oxygen therapy sound plausible22:58
de-factoindeed22:58
de-facto.title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-122:58
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nature.com: The SARS-CoV-2 main protease Mpro causes microvascular brain pathology by cleaving NEMO in brain endothelial cells | Nature Neuroscience22:58
joergthough actually I don't see how oxygen would _solve_ the blood clot problem23:00
de-facto.title https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/14/8/80723:00
Brainstormde-facto: From www.mdpi.com: Pharmaceuticals | Free Full-Text | Lung Fibrosis after COVID-19: Treatment Prospects23:00
de-factojoerg, maybe besides improving oxygen saturation in tissue that may be less than optimally supplied (due to damages by COVID) hyperbaric oxygen therapy potentially also can be helpful with autoimmune issues?23:05
de-facto(not sure, just guessing here)23:05
de-factoe.g.23:06
de-facto.title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521661603000913?via%3Dihub23:06
Brainstormde-facto: From www.sciencedirect.com: Early hyperbaric oxygen therapy attenuates disease severity in lupus-prone autoimmune (NZB × NZW) F1 mice - ScienceDirect23:06
de-factoetc23:06
BrainstormUpdates for Bahrain: +25 cases (now 277856), +18599 tests (now 7.5 million) since 17 hours ago23:07
de-facto.title https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/9/8/94323:07
Brainstormde-facto: From www.mdpi.com: Biomedicines | Free Full-Text | Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Alleviates the Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis via the Reduction of IL-17a and GM-Csf Production of Autoreactive T Cells as Well as Boosting the [...]23:08
joergde-facto: interesting23:29
joergI guess I should re-activate my oxygen concentrator23:30
BrainstormUpdates for Brazil: +4385 cases (now 22.1 million), +70 deaths (now 615744) since 17 hours ago — India: +6680 cases (now 34.6 million) since 17 hours ago — Isle of Man: +108 cases (now 12034) since 17 hours ago — Paraguay: +55 cases (now 463427), +1 deaths (now 16479) since 17 hours ago23:32
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Report from South Africa's Omicron hot spot spurs cautious optimism: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Dec 06, 2021 Only 2 of more than 160 patients were admitted to the ICU, the hospital report says. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/report-south-africas-omicron-hot-spot-spurs-cautious-optimism23:32
enychrrm23:42
enycno suggestion UK<>Spain to be red-list-travel in January23:42
enycboth countries of good vaccination rates, or so.23:42
LjLthe omicron cat is very much out of the bag23:43
enycLjL: indeed, in both places23:45
enycbut UK colder at the time23:45
de-factoi hope that Omicron can be kept from causing too many infections, because actually that would mean accelerated breading on the next mutant23:45
de-factoa more infectious variant (in terms of general better fitness in human biology) always is more dangerous than an immune evasive variant (that "only" would need updated immune competence, e.g. by vaccination in order to contain it)23:47
Arsaneritde-facto: any thought on new German Bundesgesundheitsminister?23:48
enycde-facto: hrrm... john_campbell was saiyng that he thought we would all get omicron exposure and then get herd immunity to it.....23:48
enycthough not entierly enoguh data yet23:48
de-factoArsanerit, yes that we are lucky to have him23:49
Arsanerithigh hopes?23:50
LjLenyc, ah the herd immunity mirage23:50
LjLevery new variant promising to bring it to us23:50
de-factoArsanerit, if he is allowed to act as he thinks its appropriate, yes23:50
LjL(at least according to a selection of people)23:50
enycLjL: hrrm yes seems suspect to me ... but the point was raised that "we will know when we get there"23:50
de-factothe problem with SARS-CoV-2 is that it got that furin cleavage site, so improvements to that make it replicate more efficiently independent of possible additional evasive mutations to its s-protein outer surface23:51
LjLenyc, that one is hard to argue with, but i will note that campbell has posted... strange videos lately23:51
enycLjL: i see, i'm interested in alternate views etc23:52
lastshellLjL why dr campbell is been posted strange videos ?23:52
LjLi don't know, ask him? :P23:52
lastshelllmao23:53
LjLhis video about ivermectin which he initially titled "An interesting video" is completely objectionable23:53
LjL(and i can only imagine that title was to avoid being demonetized/banned/blocked/whatever from youtube)23:53
enycLjL:  Indie_SAGE, John_Campbell, Zoe_Covid_Study  I see... who all *seem* (comparatively) credible,  but curious who else people watch who they find (comparatively) believable etc....23:53
enycbut always question23:53
LjLjust handwaving "it works the same as the pfizer pill" while showing how protease works in a childish cartoonish way with scotch-taped scissors and paper strips...23:54
LjLis kind of unsettling. and then he skimped on *how* the two are actually the same23:54
lastshellyeah most pro people from ivermectin always mention India23:54
LjLindie generally means independent, not indian... -.-23:55
enycLjL: who else does similar covid research reporting ? etc...23:55
lastshellI mean people claim India cases are lower because ivermectin23:55
LjLenyc, the entire list of people that Brainstorm reports from on Twitter?23:56
LjLfor example...23:56
enyc"brainstorm" ? link?23:56
LjL...23:57
LjLBrainstorm, hi23:57
LjLhe only posts things here like so often that half the channel hates it23:57
lastshellis not a Bot ?23:57
LjLyes23:57
lastshellah ok23:57
LjLanyway he's one recent thing from that feed https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/146792577685501542423:58
LjLnot good news, for a change23:58
LjLenyc, here link https://twitter.com/i/lists/1326305739569324036/members23:58
LjLwhenever one of those people posts on Twitter, Brainstorm reports it here (assuming he isn't busy reporting something else, because he only checks all of his feeds every 7 minutes)23:59
LjLthen you have solid science bloggers like Derek Lowe23:59
LjLstatnews sometimes posts things that i find a little over the top, but also a decent source23:59

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