enyc | Hrrm John Campbell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ thinks promising about Omicron variant in ZA, thinks it mild but much more transmissable and expects similar in eu/uk etc in 6weeks... | 00:02 |
---|---|---|
LjL | Eh, possibly. But Campbell is a bit too uh talking-prone | 00:05 |
joerg | enyc: the population in SA is too different to the one as found in EU/USA etc, so any claims about "mild" may be completely unfounded | 00:06 |
LjL | Also, consider that even if milder, if we have a much taller wave than the previous variants, the absolute number if people needing treatment may still be scarily higher | 00:06 |
LjL | Also that, but there is some *early* indication that this wave has fewer deaths vs the number if cases, compared to previous waves, *in SA*, so not comparing with the EU | 00:07 |
LjL | I'm hopeful that it will be milder, but hopeful with large caveats | 00:07 |
LjL | And as usual, hope for the best but expect the worst | 00:07 |
joerg | rather it seems to me in SA courses if covid are generally more "mild" than in northern hemisphere | 00:07 |
sdfgsdfg | a bigger wave means more rare cases and deaths possibly ? it hasn't even been 10 days since media explosion of omicron and hospitalizations etc happens after a week I thought | 00:08 |
LjL | joerg, sure, because people are younger, but again, in this case i'm comparing one SA "mild course" with another SA "mild course". it's apples to apples, although one objection that has been made is "but maybe those who were likely to die already died in previous waves, since 90% of the population was exposed" | 00:08 |
sdfgsdfg | more hospitalized cases* | 00:09 |
joerg | :nod: | 00:09 |
sdfgsdfg | or yeah maybe the ones who are supposed to die already died | 00:10 |
sdfgsdfg | theyre not showing up on statistics anymore | 00:10 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, i'm thinking specifically about this graph https://mobile.twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1467307054415159304 if you compare with the previous wave, the current wave has gone *just long enough* that you'd expect to see a corresponding rise in deaths (early, but it should be there), and yet it's not | 00:10 |
joerg | :nod: | 00:11 |
LjL | it's extremely ealy and inconclusive evidence, i'm not saying otherwise. but it's been more than the 10 days required, it should be visiblle | 00:11 |
LjL | early* | 00:11 |
joerg | noticed that when you linked it a few hours ago | 00:11 |
sdfgsdfg | right now, the nurses are deciding whether to pull the plug or not. They're probably still alive :P | 00:12 |
LjL | to be fair, i'd say, eyeballing, the previous wave also had like 3x the cases as the one before, and yet "only" 2x the deaths | 00:12 |
LjL | so it's quite possible it's just following a trend of "many people already died" | 00:12 |
joerg | indeed | 00:14 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Today's data from South Africa, >11,000 new cases (>16,000 past 2 days) with relatively small number of new hospital admissions (13), slight decrease in ICU patients twitter.com/sugan2503/stat… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467631127208742914 | 00:14 |
joerg | given all that, we should be very very careful about "probably just mild" | 00:14 |
joerg | particularly for our local forecasts | 00:15 |
joerg | enyc: however Campbell might be quite right about 6 weeks and higher R0 | 00:17 |
joerg | we already see omicron outperforming delta by higher R0, in UK | 00:18 |
sdfgsdfg | SA is going back to 10k from 20k, this thing is not even serious | 00:19 |
sdfgsdfg | there goes our exponential chart | 00:19 |
Dredd | What's not serious? | 00:20 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, or a bit of noise in the signal? | 00:21 |
de-facto | Question: assuming the worst case that Omicron infects a LOT of people, how would that accelerate SARS-CoV-2 evolution? would that mean we have extra fast breeding for the next generation of mutant? | 00:22 |
LjL | eh actually i thought you might be referring to a different graph where i saw a dot going back down | 00:22 |
LjL | i don't even know what this is so i'll have to look at it :P | 00:22 |
LjL | i would love if these twitter threads... were... well, let's just say twitter is not the ideal medium for what it's being used for, although i'm thankful *something* is being used for this kind of thing | 00:23 |
de-facto | its weekend in SA too? | 00:23 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): This will bend Prof Van Ranst's curve from yesterday a bit. Data are not indicative that Omicron is more mild. Until we see it in people > age 60, large N, no prior Covid or vaccination (or > 6 months, waned), we won't knowtwitter.com/vanranstmarc/s… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467633780890357760 | 00:23 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, i'm not sure what you're referring to to be honest, are you comparing two tables from different days from https://twitter.com/sugan2503 ? | 00:24 |
Dredd | Oh they were talking about the one day drop on cases and saying Omicron is not serious from that? | 00:28 |
Dredd | Unwise usage of statistics, that | 00:28 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +93876 cases (now 8.0 million), +78 deaths (now 120519) since 12 hours ago — Canada: +1545 cases (now 1.8 million) since 7 hours ago | 00:34 |
LjL | Dredd, i don't know, i'm asking :P that account has a daily *weekly total* of cases, but still, should definitely be compared on the same day of the week | 00:34 |
LjL | yksi, kaksi | 00:35 |
joerg | ? | 00:45 |
sdfgsdfg | @LjL I'm quoting Eric Topol's tweet and SA's daily reports | 00:45 |
joerg | %wtf yksi, kaksi | 00:45 |
Brainstorm | joerg, No such acronym. Try searching using the Wiktionary command. | 00:45 |
sdfgsdfg | on friday it was 16k, on saturday 16k again, and on sunday 11k | 00:45 |
LjL | %tr <fi >en yski, kaksi | 00:45 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Finnish to English: cough, two (MyMemory, Google) | 00:45 |
LjL | err | 00:46 |
LjL | %tr <fi >en yksi, kaksi | 00:46 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Finnish to English: one two (MyMemory, Google) | 00:46 |
joerg | :-D | 00:46 |
sdfgsdfg | yes it might be unwise use of stats, it does swing around a lot | 00:46 |
sdfgsdfg | if we assume the people have the attention span of a bird | 00:47 |
enyc | de-facto: for some reason I don't know exactly, they speak of virus running out of variation/mutants | 00:47 |
sdfgsdfg | it might not be unwise | 00:47 |
enyc | very much saying it may have used up its mutations | 00:47 |
joerg | at least you're in quite some good company | 00:47 |
sdfgsdfg | :D | 00:48 |
enyc | ** anybody understand this ''running out of variations'' mess? | 00:50 |
joerg | I heard about that, iirc it been completely debunked by Drosten | 00:51 |
sdfgsdfg | modern day nostradamus | 00:51 |
de-facto | enyc, in what context? | 00:53 |
sdfgsdfg | nobody knows anything about the evolutionary potential of a new once-in-a-century virus | 00:54 |
sdfgsdfg | these are just random prophecies | 00:54 |
de-facto | .title https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global <-- this gives a good overview over most recent mutations and their geographic distribution | 00:54 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From nextstrain.org: auspice | 00:54 |
de-facto | its all Delta now, but Delta got subvariants (AY.<suchandsuch>) | 00:55 |
de-facto | now we got Omicron | 00:55 |
de-facto | who knows what else is circulating in South America and Africa | 00:55 |
de-facto | if you click on "clock" you see mutations per time | 00:56 |
de-facto | roughly we see an additional one every 2 weeks | 00:56 |
joerg | https://twitter.com/David_LKaplan/status/1467637993322205186 (sorry the link "doesn't work" for me, scroll down until:) Re: more mild….. it being more mild isn’t relevant even if true. | 01:00 |
de-facto | yeah | 01:04 |
xx | aspirin during covid, yay or nay? Has it been determined yet? | 01:08 |
joerg | doesn't hurt | 01:11 |
de-facto | %papers aspirin | 01:19 |
Brainstorm | de-facto, 10 results out of 299: Aspirin, losartan and simvastatin in hospitalised COVID-19 patients: a multinational randomised open-label factorial trial by Danielle Beaumont et al, dated 2020-05-12 → https://pactr.samrc.ac.za/TrialDisplay.aspx?TrialID=11037 [... want %more?] | 01:19 |
de-facto | lots of papers | 01:19 |
LjL | that looks like an upper limit :P | 01:20 |
LjL | of the API i mean | 01:20 |
LjL | it's good i have spikes flowing in my body and everything, but am i really supposed to be sneezing? ;( | 01:20 |
de-facto | i think aspirin is a good idea, depends on details of course | 01:20 |
de-facto | heh LjL maybe your mucus builds up immunity? that would be good for neutralizing right at the entry | 01:21 |
LjL | de-facto, well how did the spikes already go from the muscles to the mucus! | 01:21 |
LjL | i got it 7 hours ago | 01:22 |
de-facto | idk about the exact temporal dynamics | 01:22 |
* LjL doesn't even know about the spiritual dynamics | 01:23 | |
de-facto | iirc it was decribed as side effects for 2nd dose by some people though | 01:23 |
de-facto | so why not? | 01:23 |
LjL | oh okay | 01:23 |
LjL | if i google "covid vaccine sneezing" i mostly find remarks like "Doctors say fully vaccinated people should pay attention to symptoms they might otherwise dismiss like sneezing." though ;( as in, sneezing can indicate a breakthrough infection (or just a cold, i suppose) | 01:25 |
xx | I sneeze whenever I see bright light | 01:25 |
de-facto | i remember having seen a video from a black girl that got Moderna describing her side effects (i was curious before receiving my shots), the was having mild flu like symptoms including running nose and sneezing etc | 01:27 |
de-facto | actually i remember it because i thought: nice i want such side effects too, maybe they indicate the mucus is reacting to the vaccination and building up something like a first line of defense | 01:28 |
de-facto | yet then i only had a hurting arm... | 01:28 |
de-facto | but maybe it also could be that the immune system ramps up (due to the vaccination) and thereby also reacting more to things like dust etc? | 01:29 |
de-facto | idk just guessing around :P | 01:29 |
LjL | xx, i don't literally sneeze when i see bright light but i *look* at bright light to *help* me sneeze when the sneeze is "there halfway". may just be one of those things. | 01:30 |
LjL | de-facto, to be fair, it was also cold today, including in the vaccine center (i don't think there was heating), and i was struggling to keep my hands and feet warm | 01:30 |
LjL | now i'm struggling to keep the tip of my nose warm | 01:30 |
* de-facto gives LjL a delicious hot cup of tea :) | 01:31 | |
* LjL secretly sneaks some alcohol into it | 01:34 | |
* de-facto steals it back and drinks it in one sip | 01:34 | |
* de-facto burps | 01:35 | |
LjL | rude! | 01:35 |
* de-facto makes LjL a new delicious hot cup of tea :) | 01:35 | |
* de-facto steals LjLs alcohol | 01:35 | |
* LjL puts on his mask just to keep his nose warmer | 01:36 | |
joerg | weird I seem to recall some sneezing on first dose. I might actually have done, and recall since I hardly ever sneeze | 01:36 |
LjL | is it just me or are random US media saying a bit different things from what we get to hear in Europe? like this (obviously related to my search) https://www.10news.com/news/in-depth/in-depth-why-many-breakthrough-infections-look-more-like-allergies-than-covid | 01:38 |
LjL | “If you’ve been vaccinated and start sneezing a lot without an explanation, you should definitely get a COVID test, especially if you are living or working around people who are at greater risk from the disease,” researchers wrote. ← except if i'm living or working around those people and i've already been sneezing, it's a bit too late! | 01:40 |
LjL | (other article) | 01:40 |
LjL | when there's some chat it sometimes almost looks like Brainstorm isn't constantly spitting out stuff | 02:11 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Metals in Cannabis Vaporizer Aerosols: Sources, Possible Mechanisms, and Exposure Profiles → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r9tujs/metals_in_cannabis_vaporizer_aerosols_sources/ | 02:16 |
LjL | yes thanks Brainstorm | 02:17 |
LjL | (like... since when was he even posting from r/Science? must be a real dead night for it to post from places i don't remember him posting from in ages) | 02:18 |
LjL | dzho, can you tell me about the Bakunin PM you received, if it may be related to channel operations, as i had them quieted? | 02:20 |
LjL | ublx, i've randomly thought i could add an indication on one out of how many people in total has died from COVID in a given country. do you applaud the original idea? | 02:50 |
LjL | %cases UK | 02:50 |
Brainstorm | LjL: United Kingdom has had 10.5 million confirmed cases (15.8% of all people) and 146055 deaths (1.4% of cases, and 1 in 455 people) as of an hour ago. 366.1 million tests were done (2.9% positive). 51.1 million were vaccinated (76.9%). See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 02:50 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Sarah Gilbert: Next pandemic could be more lethal than Covid: More funding to prepare for pandemics is needed to prevent gains from being lost, Dame Sarah Gilbert says. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59542211 | 02:54 |
LjL | Brainstorm, pls, go back to talking about cannabis | 02:57 |
ublx | s/funding/successful politics/ | 02:58 |
ublx | LjL: i guess that new indication won't move quickly but if it started to it'd be good nightmare fuel | 03:00 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, well anyway i'm unsure if Topol is having a go at Van Ranst (or at someone else) there, but i really am not sure you can take a decline in cases over a weekend as meaningfully changing the predicted curve. he's probably right that everyone should shut up about whether or not it's milder until we *actually* know some more, though | 03:00 |
LjL | ublx, i'm not sure if i should make it clearer that it's "of all population" or something, but characters are precious | 03:01 |
LjL | (especially since after i added custom URLs at the end) | 03:01 |
LjL | by the way, i am lazy | 03:02 |
LjL | %ca omicron | 03:02 |
Brainstorm | LjL, I have no idea what, who, where, when or whence that is, sorry! Try with a COVID-related thing... | 03:02 |
ublx | yes, next to the cases percentage, it seems easy to gloss past the distinction | 03:02 |
LjL | ublx, s/people/residents/? | 03:02 |
LjL | ("residents" seems like an oddly specific word but "citizens" would be incorrect and "inhabitants" also sounds odd) | 03:03 |
LjL | "dwellers" is shorter still, but | 03:03 |
LjL | "duellers" are even more likely to die | 03:03 |
ublx | (1.4% of cases; 1 in 455 of population) | 03:04 |
LjL | god the preposition clash! | 03:04 |
ublx | ha | 03:04 |
ublx | (1.4% of cases; population: 1 in 455) | 03:05 |
LjL | hmm nah clearer the other way, despite awful-sounding | 03:05 |
LjL | come up with something better while i add Omicron to the list of things he should know | 03:05 |
ublx | well, could just insert "the" | 03:06 |
LjL | ... and mu, apparently | 03:06 |
LjL | ublx, i'm not sure that's the issue i have with it. if you say it out loud, "1 in 455 of the population", doesn't it sound off? | 03:06 |
sdfgsdfg | they should probably publish details of genomic engineering | 03:07 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, wut | 03:08 |
LjL | ublx, i know! i need to find a library that converts country names to demonyms, like "UK" to "Britons", then i can say "1 in 455 Britons" | 03:10 |
LjL | although by the time i find one it'll be a lower number for sure | 03:11 |
ublx | Hmm! | 03:11 |
LjL | damn | 03:11 |
LjL | i missed my chance to say "like 'UK' to 'Englishmen'" | 03:11 |
ublx | you're such a mischievous roman | 03:12 |
ublx | ugh | 03:14 |
ublx | just read a comment about the Oslo cluster | 03:14 |
LjL | what that now? | 03:15 |
ublx | it seems there were 30 infections AFTER the superspreading party left, ie from the air in room | 03:15 |
ublx | not that that's surprising, but it's still ugh | 03:16 |
LjL | :( | 03:18 |
LjL | i didn't know about the cluster in the first place though | 03:18 |
LjL | what sort of place was this? | 03:18 |
LjL | maybe some barely-aerated nightclub or something? | 03:18 |
ublx | a company christmas party | 03:19 |
LjL | and, Omicron? | 03:19 |
ublx | two staff members recently returned from SA attended | 03:19 |
ublx | 120 attendees | 03:19 |
LjL | also why are they having christmas parties in novem... oh wait | 03:19 |
ublx | 100 later tested positive with omicron | 03:19 |
LjL | https://newsnodes.com/nu_tracker needs updated then | 03:20 |
ublx | then 30 further cases in people who occupied the room after the party left | 03:20 |
ublx | status: gimme sec to corroborate all that | 03:20 |
LjL | i think, i do not know, but i think that indicates perhaps a higher degree of airborne-ness than delta | 03:20 |
ublx | clarification: cases positive, but not necessarily omicron | 03:22 |
ublx | omicron is expected, however | 03:22 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Putin hopes WHO soon approves Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/putin-hopes-who-soon-approves-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine-7658114/ | 03:22 |
LjL | ublx, it should at least be in the "probable" column there though i figure | 03:23 |
LjL | ublx, you see https://twitter.com/Forensic_Stats/status/1467497592741318666 ? | 03:23 |
ublx | reading from this, by the way: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/12/oslo-omicron-outbreak-a-textbook-aerosol-driven-superspreader-event-vax-only-totters.html | 03:23 |
LjL | %w totter | 03:23 |
Brainstorm | LjL, totter — verb: 1. To walk, move or stand unsteadily or falteringly; threatening to fall, 2. (figuratively) To be on the brink of collapse, 3. (archaic) To collect junk or scrap — noun: 1. An unsteady movement or gait, 2. (archaic) A rag and bone man → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/totter | 03:23 |
ublx | nakedcapitalism.com does seem to get ahead of itself sometimes, but for the most part it is detailed and earnest | 03:23 |
LjL | oh lord norway's case curve... | 03:24 |
LjL | how do i not get to know a country is suddenly doing that badly, Brainstorm? :( | 03:24 |
LjL | perplexing | 03:27 |
LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-09-25.log:[16:32:37] <Brainstorm> Updates for Norway: +649 cases (now 186349), +17584 tests (now 7.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Qatar: +108 cases (now 236231), +5005 tests (now 2.6 million) since a day ago — Namibia: +89 cases (now 127160), +2 deaths (now 3490), +4877 tests (now 695621) since a day ago — Saudi Arabia: +11 cases (now 546803), +2 deaths (now 8686), +32549 tests (now 28.7 million) since a day ago | 03:27 |
LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-10-08.log:[01:29:11] <Brainstorm> Updates for Norway: +508 cases (now 192587), +22744 tests (now 7.9 million) since 20 hours ago — Ecuador: +382 cases (now 511699), +17 deaths (now 32836), +6732 tests (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Ghana: +209 cases (now 128368), +1 deaths (now 1158), +23627 tests (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 11131) since 10 hours ago | 03:27 |
LjL | that's all the recent there is on Norway from Brainstorm | 03:27 |
LjL | yes i know that's barely a sentence, but clearly it's also barely usable code that decides whether to post stuff or not | 03:27 |
* LjL wipes the database and restarts the thing and hopes for the best | 03:27 | |
LjL | but also i don't get it, as usual | 03:28 |
LjL | nakedcapitalism points the finger immediately to removal of all restrictions | 03:28 |
LjL | ... in september | 03:28 |
LjL | early september. but in september the case then went down, only to go up again in the later half of october | 03:28 |
LjL | i still don't really get what causes waves, how they seem to be dormant for longer than you'd expect... | 03:29 |
LjL | %cases norway | 03:29 |
Brainstorm | LjL: Norway has had 284448 confirmed cases (5.3% of all people) and 1093 deaths (0.4% of cases, and 1 in 4911 people) as of 3 hours ago. 8.7 million tests were done (3.3% positive). 4.2 million were vaccinated (79.1%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Norway&legacy=no | 03:29 |
sdfgsdfg | australia still about 10 more cases of omicron today | 03:29 |
LjL | also pretty vaccinated | 03:29 |
LjL | like, really very vaccinated | 03:30 |
sdfgsdfg | like us | 03:30 |
LjL | how promising | 03:30 |
sdfgsdfg | you mean australia or norway ? | 03:30 |
LjL | norway | 03:30 |
sdfgsdfg | yeah, I guess it's the seasonal difference maybe | 03:30 |
LjL | it's always either that or... something else | 03:30 |
LjL | except look at last winter | 03:30 |
LjL | they barely had anything | 03:30 |
LjL | (including vaccinations) | 03:31 |
sdfgsdfg | classified comorbidities | 03:32 |
sdfgsdfg | 1- winter 2- heartbreak 3- smoking 4- less sun lol | 03:32 |
sdfgsdfg | btw it says Norway is 42.7% fully vax | 03:34 |
LjL | ublx, do you see the 30-people-later thing in that article too? i have it in one comment "There is a major new development on the Oslo cluster — apparently 30 people got infected after the 100/120 group left." | 03:34 |
sdfgsdfg | sorry I was looking at the wrong row | 03:34 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, you can list all the comorbidities or factors you want, but, they also had them last winter | 03:35 |
ublx | LjL: just from the comment | 03:35 |
LjL | unless there was an unusual sun epidemic last winter in norway | 03:35 |
LjL | lol, comment | 03:36 |
LjL | "Oslo temps are running in the teens in the evening. Not many doors or windows would be open." | 03:36 |
LjL | THE TEENS? COVER YOUR NECK! | 03:37 |
ublx | lol | 03:37 |
ublx | some equator dweller posted that? | 03:37 |
ublx | ah. probably an american speaking of degrees Fahrenheit | 03:38 |
LjL | ublx, name in -sen | 03:38 |
LjL | though maybe a Norwegian-American, or, as i tend to call them, Americans | 03:38 |
LjL | i wish the temperature had been in "the teens" (°C) here today | 03:39 |
LjL | maybe i wouldn't have this cold nose and sneezing now! | 03:39 |
sdfgsdfg | vax rate of NSW state is 94.65% compared to 79% of Norway, it will be interesting to track how we both go | 03:39 |
LjL | wut | 03:39 |
sdfgsdfg | with omicron cases and overall, au is going back to zero | 03:39 |
LjL | how did they manage 95% | 03:39 |
LjL | %cases New South Wales | 03:39 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +47 cases (now 2.8 million) since 10 hours ago | 03:39 |
Brainstorm | LjL: New South Wales, Australia has had 83118 confirmed cases (1.0% of all people) and 630 deaths (0.8% of cases, and 1 in 12841 people) as of 21 hours ago. 141777 tests were done (58.6% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20South%20Wales&legacy=no | 03:39 |
LjL | Brainstorm, plsvaccinations | 03:40 |
sdfgsdfg | I don't know, everyone else here except me are literally dying to get more and more of it | 03:40 |
sdfgsdfg | they like the vaccination here | 03:40 |
LjL | sdfgsdfg, do you know whether it's 95% of the eligible population, or 95% of the *whole* population? the number for Norway is whole | 03:40 |
LjL | (mainly excluding babies and toddlers at this point i guess) | 03:41 |
sdfgsdfg | hmmm, they passed the australian-FDA law to vaccinate 5-11 year olds yesterday | 03:41 |
sdfgsdfg | they'll probably start including them soon | 03:41 |
sdfgsdfg | I'm not sure if it includes them | 03:41 |
sdfgsdfg | babies and toddlers also wont be excluded for much long | 03:42 |
sdfgsdfg | at this rate | 03:42 |
ublx | variations of details on olso cluster: https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1466875096212119556 | 03:42 |
ublx | eg: "Almost 120 people are now infected after the party downtown Oslo Nov 26. Around 70 were with the party of 120, 45-50 other guests at the same venue. Omicron suspected in all, still only verified in 13, sequencing slow, screening underway" | 03:43 |
LjL | great | 03:44 |
* LjL throws a "we're fucked" party | 03:44 | |
sdfgsdfg | sounds like we will continue being a hermit kingdom in 2022 | 03:47 |
LjL | %tr <no >en Én person har fått påvist omikronsmitte etter et julebord i Oslo sist fredag. Over 50 personer er påvist smittet etter festen. | 03:48 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Norwegian to English: One person has been diagnosed with omicron infection after a Christmas dinner in Oslo last Friday. More than 50 people have been found infected after the party. (MyMemory, Google) | 03:48 |
LjL | hmm no | 03:49 |
sdfgsdfg | "smittet etter festen" Smitten (by god?), after the feast ? | 03:50 |
sdfgsdfg | I feel like my german is helping me translate it, norwegian seems similar | 03:50 |
LjL | yes | 03:51 |
LjL | %tr <no >en De kommer dermed i tillegg til de rundt 60 juleborddeltakerne som allerede er registrert smittet. | 03:52 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Norwegian to English: They are thus in addition to the around 60 Christmas table participants who have already been registered infected. (MyMemory) — They thus come in addition to the around 60 Christmas table participants who have already been registered infected. (Google) | 03:52 |
LjL | %tr <no >en De smittede besøkte restauranten Louise på Aker Brygge samtidig som selskapet Scatec avholdt julebord | 03:53 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Norwegian to English: The infected people visited the Louise restaurant at Aker Brygge at the same time as the company Scatec held a Christmas table (MyMemory) — The infected people visited the restaurant Louise at Aker Brygge at the same time as the company Scatec held a Christmas table (Google) | 03:53 |
LjL | ublx, ↑ | 03:54 |
ublx | hmm | 03:54 |
minthos | smitten = infected, fest = party | 04:04 |
minthos | sorry, smittet = infected | 04:04 |
minthos | smitten = the infection | 04:05 |
minthos | or maybe the infectiousness or something | 04:05 |
LjL | yes but it was basically right | 04:08 |
LjL | minthos, but you *are* norwegian, right? | 04:09 |
minthos | yes | 04:09 |
LjL | minthos, then it's on you to figure out whether this rumor of the 30 or so infected *after* at that venue the party was over is true, or a misunderstanding | 04:10 |
* LjL slaps an arrow sticker on minthos and runs away | 04:10 | |
minthos | it's true afaik, the party left and another group entered the same room where the virus still lingered in the air | 04:11 |
minthos | most of them were vaccinated too I think | 04:11 |
minthos | this one is super infectious | 04:11 |
minthos | I don't know why they're so slow to confirm it as omicron | 04:12 |
LjL | minthos, well it's confirmed for about 13 people at least | 04:16 |
LjL | not sure about the ones after though | 04:17 |
minthos | it's suspected in most or all of the others but for some reason they haven't finished sequencing or whatever it is they do | 04:17 |
LjL | i mean after they've done 13 i don't need to know about the others, i take it for granted :P | 04:18 |
LjL | but the part about people getting infected after the party leaving is a lot creepier | 04:18 |
LjL | so i would like that one confirmed with sequencing, for sure | 04:18 |
LjL | or at least some PCR that has gene dropout | 04:18 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Woman reveals how she was abducted and held against her will in one of Australia's Covid Concentration Camps → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9wxqe/woman_reveals_how_she_was_abducted_and_held/ | 04:19 |
minthos | this covid thing is making me lean more authoritarian | 04:22 |
minthos | if that was the plan all along by the secret us/chinese puppeteers, well played | 04:23 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germany to make vaccination compulsory for people working in hospitals, nursing homes and other medical practices, says incoming SPD government → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9xp0a/germany_to_make_vaccination_compulsory_for_people/ | 04:57 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Pharmaceutical & biotech are also developing new vaccines, antiviral, and diagnostics with #Omicron data. If new vaccines are produced who will have early access, who will get the profit? The financial gains will be to developed countries and Africa suffer the [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1467710036763979789 | 05:25 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ oopsie: Epidemiology: oopsie ← Previous revision Revision as of 04:29, 6 December 2021 Line 222: Line 222: In the UK, the logistic growth rate of Omicron-associated S-gene target failure (SGTF) cases over S-gene target positive (SGTP) cases was estimated at [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 05:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +21574 cases (now 6.2 million) since 15 hours ago | 05:39 |
xx | when the flu vaccine is a good match in a given year, does it provide sterilizing immunity? Can one still spread it to others? | 06:00 |
de-facto | yeah flu vaccines has quite low efficacy | 06:01 |
de-facto | .title https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html | 06:03 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.cdc.gov: Past Seasons Vaccine Effectiveness Estimates | CDC | 06:03 |
de-facto | far from sterilizing immunity | 06:04 |
xx | de-facto: isn't that about it being a bad match for the circulating strain, rather than not providing immunity? | 06:13 |
de-facto | there always are both mechanisms in effect that lead to lower than optimum immunity: 1) level of immunity waning with time 2) pathogen antigenic drift (and recombination) | 06:25 |
xx | thanks | 06:26 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Korea puts reopening plans into reverse as cases soar, omicron spreads → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r9zyf5/korea_puts_reopening_plans_into_reverse_as_cases/ | 07:01 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ + link: Epidemiology: + link ← Previous revision Revision as of 06:07, 6 December 2021 Line 220: Line 220: "Phylogeny suggests a recent emergence. Data from South Africa suggests that Omicron has a pronounced growth advantage there. However, this may be due [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 07:11 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Jmv2009: /* Epidemiology */ The exponent corresponding to something is of course the logarithm of it.: Epidemiology: The exponent corresponding to something is of course the logarithm of it. ← Previous revision Revision as of 06:18, 6 December 2021 Line 220: Line 220: "Phylogeny [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 07:20 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: Banksy street murals recreated in Milan’s main train station → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/banksy-street-murals-recreated-in-milans-main-train-station-7654516/ | 07:39 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Georgia: +1778 cases (now 867071), +63 deaths (now 12407), +25855 tests (now 11.8 million) since 2 hours ago — Taiwan: +10 cases (now 16662), +14366 tests (now 8.5 million) since 2 hours ago — El Salvador: +3 deaths (now 3786) since 2 hours ago | 08:36 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 06, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ra2226/daily_discussion_thread_december_06_2021/ | 09:03 |
Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: BOO: Or how “magic dirt” became a MLM miracle cure scam for COVID-19: "BOO" stands for Black Oxygen Organics, a "cure" for COVID-19 that got the attention of regulators last week. Basically, it's dirt billed by its believers as "magic [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/boo-or-how-magic-dirt-became-a-mlm-miracle-cure-scam-for-covid-19/ | 09:12 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Armenia: +95 cases (now 340818), +8 deaths (now 7691), +3308 tests (now 2.4 million) since 3 hours ago | 09:13 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Gorbi: update sources and total suspected cases: update sources and total suspected cases ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:17, 6 December 2021 Line 228: Line 228: A study suggests that Omicron has picked up one of its mutations, ins214EPE, from the HCoV-229E [[common cold]] [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 09:22 |
joerg | moin! | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: Tidy refs 45-48: Tidy refs 45-48 ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:26, 6 December 2021 Line 210: Line 210: == Epidemiology == == Epidemiology == On 26 November 2021, the South African [[National Institute for Communicable Diseases]] announced that 30,904 COVID-tests [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 09:31 |
joerg | >><sdfgsdfg> I feel like my german is helping me translate it, norwegian seems similar << not really, rather not at all | 09:31 |
sdfgsdfg | moin moin joerg, yeah it's not similar but I wanted to think it was similar at the time lol | 09:32 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Karnataka, India: +853 cases (now 3.0 million), +10 deaths (now 38230) since 3 hours ago — Delhi, India: +114 cases (now 1.4 million) since 3 hours ago — Goa, India: +86 cases (now 179174) since 3 hours ago — Gujarat, India: +92 cases (now 827707), +1 deaths (now 10095) since 3 hours ago | 09:38 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: Add 3x trans-titles: Add 3x trans-titles ← Previous revision Revision as of 08:33, 6 December 2021 Line 269: Line 269: |- |- ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Denmark}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Denmark}} | 32 {{cite web|date=5 December [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 09:41 |
joerg | damn omicron-oslo curse :-/ | 09:53 |
Dredd | Morning all | 09:56 |
joerg | o/ | 09:58 |
joerg | time to order a full respirator | 09:59 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid in Scotland: Negative test to get into clubs, gigs and events: Evidence of a negative test for Covid-19 can now be used as an alternative to a vaccine passport in Scotland. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59540250 | 09:59 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Hungary: +22699 cases (now 1.2 million), +489 deaths (now 35611), +1484654 tests (now 8.7 million) since 4 hours ago — Philippines: +379 cases (now 2.8 million), +113 deaths (now 49499) since 4 hours ago — Liechtenstein: +48 cases (now 4941) since 4 hours ago — Saint Lucia: +14 cases (now 13048), +238 tests (now 101304) since 4 hours ago | 10:03 |
Dredd | I'm not fussed with anything more than a surgical mask myself. I don't go out a lot, I keep my distance from people and I'm not particularly afraid of getting covid myself | 10:07 |
Dredd | I'm wearing the mask to do my part minimising spread from myself to others and as part of all of society hopefully being sensible | 10:07 |
Dredd | But I'm not bothered enough to go though the negatives of using masks or respirators with better filtration | 10:08 |
joerg | well, I'm out a maybe 20 min per week, but that's already a nightmare in (crowded as usual) supermarket with lots of morons, particularly since I already got some respiratory condition which a) makes normal masks a torture for me (nwevertheless wearing FFP3 since...) b) I wouldn't cope well with the virus | 10:18 |
joerg | and now Oslo demonstrates massive immune escape of omicron | 10:19 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Next pandemic could be more lethal than COVID, vaccine creator says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra32e5/next_pandemic_could_be_more_lethal_than_covid/ | 10:28 |
Dredd | I'm gonna wait about 10 more days before I pay much attention to "omicron is X" news | 10:29 |
Dredd | Since that's when I think it'll be enough time for there to be an accurate assessment | 10:30 |
CoJaBo | As a general rule, headlines containing the word "could" are invariably utter hogwash. | 10:33 |
CoJaBo | The next pandemic could make everyone bald. A rogue planet could hit the earth. Dogecoin could rise over $9,000. Fricking speculative wastes of time.. | 10:35 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health Tech: STAT+: The pandemic forced an experiment in delivering intensive mental health care from home. Will the approach stick? → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/06/mental-health-outpatient-ocd-telehealth/ | 10:37 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +32136 cases (now 9.8 million), +1184 deaths (now 282462), +500000 tests (now 228.5 million) since 4 hours ago — Ukraine: +4478 cases (now 3.7 million), +239 deaths (now 93973) since 4 hours ago — Lithuania: +471 cases (now 480310), +15 deaths (now 6862), +3781 tests (now 6.2 million) since 4 hours ago — Israel: +328 cases (now 1.3 million) since 4 hours ago | 10:40 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Covid-19 is fueling a pandemic of violence against women and girls: The message from this pandemic is clear: More girls and women will be harmed if the long-term harms of violence are not factored into pandemic responses and their welfare is… → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/06/covid-19-policies-fuel-violence-against-women-girls/ | 10:47 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Claire Champion (@Champion3Claire): @fact_covid Vaccination Centres are waiting for the new protocols (NP and PGD) to be updated, hopefully by 13/12. GPs can give under prescription so can offer now, but should be calling patients in age brackets from oldest first, and CEV. The [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Champion3Claire/status/1467792565487476737 | 10:56 |
minthos | joerg: have you tried one of those masks with electric fans that make breathing easier? | 11:02 |
minthos | I forget what they're called | 11:03 |
CoJaBo | that seems like overkill lol | 11:04 |
minthos | if we're going to be wearing a mask several hours per week for a year or more, it could be worth investing in added comfort | 11:04 |
CoJaBo | Tbh, it seems like that might reduce comfort if it makes it heavier | 11:05 |
CoJaBo | No matter what I do tho, it fogs up glasses eventually :/ | 11:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Norway: +1046 cases (now 285494) since 5 hours ago — Slovakia: +74 deaths (now 14900), +7971 tests (now 4.7 million) since 5 hours ago — Afghanistan: +54 cases (now 157499), +1434 tests (now 797783) since 5 hours ago — Oman: +9 cases (now 304612) since 5 hours ago | 11:05 |
minthos | a better mask would solve the fogging issue | 11:06 |
joerg | minthos: not yet, I looked into several designs of iirc air-helmet etc, they seem too low airflow | 11:06 |
joerg | https://youtu.be/e_IXwHmKU2g | 11:09 |
minthos | https://twitter.com/realsexycyborg has been tweeting about them, I didn't pay much attention since my mask never bothered me | 11:10 |
joerg | I'm rather thinking about a concept of a halfmask with tubes to a filter&fans unit to be carried on hip belt or as backpack | 11:12 |
imaginary | fogging can't be avoided during the winter can it | 11:12 |
joerg | fogging can easily be avoided by a number of difficult or problematic measures like heating, isolation "shield" (douple layer?) etc | 11:13 |
minthos | or just more airflow I suppose | 11:15 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Dongord: /* Statistics */ update: Statistics: update ← Previous revision Revision as of 10:04, 6 December 2021 Line 361: Line 361: |- |- ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Japan}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Japan}} | 2 {{cite news |title=Japan finds [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 11:15 |
joerg | first of all for fogging you need a shield to fog. I can't see why exactly I'd absolutely need a shield, I'm less worried about protecting my eyes from anything in the air | 11:21 |
joerg | Imean, I hope to be able to keep sufficient physical distance to anybody spitting droplets while speaking, and I doubt my eyeballs would catch significant amount of pathogens from aerosol | 11:23 |
minthos | don't give the virus any ideas | 11:23 |
joerg | hehe | 11:24 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Putin to land in India with eye on military, energy ties: Russian President Vladimir Putin will arrive in India on Monday for just his second overseas trip since the pandemic, seeking to bolster military and energy ties with a traditional ally [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra3yse/putin_to_land_in_india_with_eye_on_military/ | 11:25 |
minthos | https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1465630737663623170/photo/3 | 11:27 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Poland: +13250 cases (now 3.7 million), +25 deaths (now 85700), +78533 tests (now 24.9 million) since 5 hours ago — Slovenia: +775 cases (now 430839), +14 deaths (now 5317), +78 vaccines (now 1.2 million), +1880 tests (now 2.0 million) since 5 hours ago — United Kingdom: +4 cases (now 10.5 million), +25679 vaccines (now 51.1 million) since 5 hours ago | 11:30 |
minthos | PAPR is the word I was looking for | 11:32 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: CoryGlee: /* Statistics */ Correcting my mistake: Statistics: Correcting my mistake ← Previous revision Revision as of 10:33, 6 December 2021 Line 374: Line 374: ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Argentina}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Argentina}} |1 [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 11:34 |
joerg | PAPR? | 11:36 |
minthos | powered air-purifying respirator | 11:36 |
joerg | :-) | 11:36 |
joerg | faintly similar to what I'm musing about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_air-purifying_respirator#/media/File:%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D1%8E%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%A1%D0%98%D0%97%D0%9E%D0%94_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B0_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%A7%D0%A1.jpg though it wouldn't need shield, instead it needs a double-pipe design for exhaust filtering, well maybe maybe not | 11:38 |
joerg | hmmm https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/powered-supplied-air/i/safety/personal-safety/ | 11:40 |
minthos | https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1423283026599940096 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1424285288877068293 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1424304587394064386 | 11:40 |
minthos | I welcome our new cyberpunk/dystopian future | 11:41 |
joerg | FFS 1800 bucks https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000204774/ | 11:42 |
minthos | there is something to be said for crafting your own with computer fans and a 3d printer | 11:43 |
joerg | :nod: | 11:44 |
minthos | I guess 3M has certain standards to live up to, while many people just need something better than an N95 mask | 11:46 |
sdfgsdfg | wow... this worldometer chart is from may 2020 | 11:52 |
sdfgsdfg | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ | 11:52 |
sdfgsdfg | the percentages are still probably similar right ? except we also have the vaccinated column now | 11:53 |
sdfgsdfg | I wonder how these numbers changed since then | 11:53 |
sdfgsdfg | this is a quick summary of this epidemic for me | 11:54 |
sdfgsdfg | I'm 31. In the age bracket of 18-44 year olds you see only 3% of deaths | 11:55 |
sdfgsdfg | in that 3%, out of that around 500 people, 480 of them had underlying conditions | 11:55 |
sdfgsdfg | and out of those 20, most were probably skinny girls or expectant mothers perhaps :P | 11:56 |
minthos | the problem is if you get something other than covid and can't get treatment because the hospitals are full of covid patients | 11:58 |
minthos | also "long covid" is something I'd rather avoid | 11:58 |
minthos | the third argument is the moral argument that we should avoid spreading it to others, though some individuals are immune to that line of reasoning | 12:01 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Questzest: /* Statistics */ Updates, old refs cleaned: Statistics: Updates, old refs cleaned ← Previous revision Revision as of 11:01, 6 December 2021 Line 314: Line 314: ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Austria}} ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Austria}} [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 12:02 |
sdfgsdfg | covid deaths resolve in about 20-30 days, after enough waves we won't have candidates for covid death and hospitals will be relieved | 12:03 |
joerg | well, that's what we already see in SA, no? | 12:04 |
sdfgsdfg | old peoples' concern to be honest, I don't understand the extreme gov pressure on jabbing all 5 year olds, I haven't seen expectant mothers protesting - they could just leave the little ones alone | 12:04 |
joerg | re "mild cases only" | 12:04 |
sdfgsdfg | protesting before* | 12:04 |
minthos | omicron may be hitting the very young harder as well as the very old | 12:04 |
joerg | I think it's about time to reconsider the basic covid strategy. Stuff like nocovid / 0covid gains pro arguments every day | 12:07 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +238 cases (now 822830), +2 deaths (now 11543), +7114 tests (now 4.7 million) since 6 hours ago — Latvia: +230 cases (now 257559), +10 deaths (now 4277), +4167 tests (now 5.4 million) since 6 hours ago — UAE: +48 cases (now 742376), +1 deaths (now 2149), +498959 tests (now 102.8 million) since 6 hours ago | 12:08 |
joerg | it's outright utterly silly in my book to ask "how many covid cases may we tolerate per week? our goal is to avoid hospital overload" - we probably should try hard to aim at zero covid cases, reducing the number of cases where mutations breed | 12:09 |
minthos | it's not feasible as long as covid remains in the "uncanny valley" of lethality where a significant portion of politicians and voters don't give a shit | 12:09 |
minthos | some countries have been fairly successful at it | 12:10 |
joerg | :nod: | 12:10 |
minthos | but we need the whole world on board | 12:10 |
sdfgsdfg | yes it became impossible with the transmission level of delta | 12:11 |
joerg | again :nod: | 12:11 |
sdfgsdfg | I don't think China will last long | 12:11 |
sdfgsdfg | actually no wait - it was a stupid plane that impregnated australia after 2 years. We should have kept the border fully closed | 12:11 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Questzest: /* Reported cases */ ref fix: Reported cases: ref fix ← Previous revision Revision as of 11:03, 6 December 2021 Line 463: Line 463: On 29 November, a positive case was recorded in [[Darwin, Northern Territory|Darwin]], Australia. The person arrived in Darwin on a [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 12:12 |
sdfgsdfg | lol | 12:12 |
sdfgsdfg | perfect timing brainstorm | 12:12 |
joerg | >>it became impossible<< no, since the idea is to *aim* at zero cases, not to *reach* and sustain zero cases | 12:13 |
Telvana | 0 covid is a pipe dream - considering the fact that COVID has an animal reservoir | 12:14 |
sdfgsdfg | not sure how people will react to any more days of iso | 12:15 |
minthos | it used to annoy me that we didn't nip it in the bud when Wuhan went on lockdown, but now I see it as a pentest of our pandemic preparedness (which we failed and still continue to fail 2 years in) | 12:15 |
joerg | Telvana: again, zero covid means to TRY to get there, not to sustain exactly zero | 12:15 |
sdfgsdfg | it was probably the only thing that would work | 12:15 |
sdfgsdfg | if done by all countries in sync | 12:15 |
Telvana | Even trying to get there is likely impossible | 12:15 |
Telvana | I mean, unless you want to shut down international travel forever | 12:16 |
sdfgsdfg | only for a few months and make sure we keep people in their homes | 12:16 |
Telvana | Never happen | 12:16 |
joerg | trying is impossible? we're doomed and we asked for it, then | 12:17 |
Telvana | It would have been possible early on if everyone was on board with the plan | 12:17 |
sdfgsdfg | but since people have the attention span of a bird | 12:17 |
sdfgsdfg | we'll just have to watch them die :p | 12:17 |
Telvana | the issue is there was no consistency between countries, borders didn't shut down fast enough, etc | 12:18 |
darsie | How many ppl went vegan/vegetarian to reduce the chance of further animals jumping to humans? Any of you? | 12:18 |
joerg | if *trying* to cope with the pandemic is impossible, please go and get your infection, stay away from rest of civilized world | 12:18 |
minthos | the disruptions to people's lives and economy would have been much smaller if we had done a few months of China level lockdown globally and maintained a high alert with "better safe than sorry" proactive measures for a while after, instead of this clusterfuck of waiting until it gets pretty bad and then half-assing it until it gets a bit better, repeat ad nauseam | 12:18 |
Telvana | "civilized world" | 12:18 |
darsie | How many ppl went vegan/vegetarian to reduce the chance of further viruses jumping from animals to humans? Any of you? | 12:18 |
Telvana | minthos: right, it's just delaying the invevitable | 12:19 |
sdfgsdfg | I only went vegan to see 8f banana smoothies would taste the same after consuming it repetitively | 12:19 |
Telvana | *inevitable | 12:19 |
joerg | darsie: I stopped eating bats | 12:19 |
darsie | :) | 12:19 |
Telvana | Mmm bats | 12:21 |
darsie | I have bats in my area. Occasionally they fly in my flat. | 12:21 |
darsie | Once every few years. | 12:21 |
darsie | Central Vienna | 12:22 |
minthos | another thing is that we should have a global relief fund that can provide people with money during lockdowns, that would probably improve both adherence and support for anti-covid measures immensely | 12:22 |
minthos | but again, hard to get everyone on board | 12:22 |
enyc | de-facto: r.e. evolution of covid-19 variantn | 12:22 |
sdfgsdfg | it'll probably end up being a conspiracy instead of getting everyone on board | 12:22 |
sdfgsdfg | another* | 12:23 |
enyc | de-facto: various (but e.g. john campbell) talk of some sort of running out of mutatitons or similar, I'm not really sure how this can work, what is going on, etc. | 12:23 |
Telvana | Well, the theory is COVID will evolve to be less deadly and less serious over time as it's advantageous for it to NOT kill it's host | 12:24 |
Telvana | Every virus in the history of ever has pretty much done this over time | 12:25 |
joerg | bats are lovely creatures. | 12:25 |
* enyc wonders what is sensible precautions for those going to cycling training camp in spain =) | 12:26 | |
minthos | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cute+bat | 12:26 |
enyc | I don't like the idea of large dinner in town sort of thing like used to happen! | 12:26 |
sdfgsdfg | crazy cnts with sonar sensors flying around | 12:26 |
joerg | >>will evolve to be less deadly<< also already completely debunked as basing on false assumptions | 12:28 |
enyc | joerg: is the less-deadly'ness just "by accident" "incidental" "by luck" etc.? | 12:28 |
joerg | there's no incentive for the virus to _not_ kill people _after_ they have spread the virus | 12:28 |
joerg | it works for a disease that is infectious as long as you suffer from the infection. This doesn't apply to covid | 12:29 |
joerg | self-isolation as soon as people notice severe symtoms further counteracts this evolutionary pressure to "get milder" | 12:31 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Private jet sales and flights soar during pandemic travel confusion → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ra4y6o/private_jet_sales_and_flights_soar_during/ | 12:31 |
Telvana | joerg: debunked? Apparently you're ignoring science | 12:32 |
dTal | darsie: that's pretty far down the list of reasons to become vegan | 12:35 |
dTal | I find it hard to imagine the individual who would be convinced by that line of argument, but not by all the arguments that existed prior to covid-19 | 12:36 |
Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:41 |
sdfgsdfg | I'll close off by arguing against modern science and the respirators now. They probably damage lungs and get people killed faster | 12:41 |
joerg | Telvana: no, I'm quoting scientists. What makes you think I'd "ignore science"? I'm an engineer and scientist | 12:42 |
sdfgsdfg | Imagine hospitals using a humidifier with eucalyptus and herb extracts that actually have strong antiviral properties | 12:42 |
joerg | Telvana: maybe you didn't understand what I wrote? | 12:43 |
dTal | >I'll close off by arguing against modern science | 12:45 |
dTal | nuff said really | 12:45 |
sdfgsdfg | my final trolling attempt lol | 12:45 |
joerg | trolls not appreciated in here. It's no entertainment channel | 12:46 |
sdfgsdfg | we,, | 12:47 |
sdfgsdfg | I do mean it | 12:47 |
sdfgsdfg | go research the respirators and lung damage man | 12:47 |
sdfgsdfg | see ifi t was a trolling attempt or scientific truth | 12:47 |
sdfgsdfg | I was joking about trolling, it's a double negative. So I was dead serious. | 12:49 |
Telvana | joerg: considering I work with the health department and every epidemiologist I've ever spoken with says that it will evolve to be less deadly and more contagious before it becomes endemic, I think I'll trust their word over someone random on the internet | 12:49 |
joerg | we had that discussion a year ago, please refer to chanlog | 12:50 |
Telvana | You really think I'm going to dig up a year old conversation? I'm quite confused | 12:51 |
sdfgsdfg | he's german | 12:51 |
sdfgsdfg | do it | 12:51 |
joerg | while generally correct, the "it becomes less deadly" doesn't really apply to a virus that has the major infectios timespan even before symptoms kick in | 12:51 |
joerg | and yes, this been a fallacy even many epidemiologists fell for, until maybe a year ago | 12:52 |
Telvana | Considering that the infection vector is most prevalent 2-3 days before symptomatic, it's really no different than most viruses | 12:52 |
Telvana | umm | 12:53 |
coruja | it may even be an advantage for this kind of virus to kill its host after some time to relatively more hosts not infected yet, with a better chance of reproducing | 12:53 |
Telvana | for now, coruja | 12:54 |
Telvana | Natural immunity still comes into play here | 12:54 |
Telvana | It *does* of course wane with time as a lot of other viruses do | 12:54 |
sdfgsdfg | you can only get certificate with natural immunity in some countries, most do not recognize it to be as safe as the vax, but it also depends on whether it was symptomatic right | 12:55 |
sdfgsdfg | any science ref on this would be nice, it's confusing to me | 12:55 |
Telvana | Natural immunity is seemingly mostly ignored, because the data isn't there yet | 12:57 |
Telvana | We simply don't know how long natural immunity lasts | 12:57 |
dTal | sdfgsdfg: if you're serious - can you elaborate on " research the respirators and lung damage man" | 12:58 |
sdfgsdfg | its not an alex jones episode let me bring some links | 12:59 |
dTal | because as I understand it, while respirators can damage lungs, it's a tradeoff that's considered worthwhile because without the respirator you'll just suffocate immediately | 12:59 |
sdfgsdfg | of course, rewards would far outweigh the risks | 12:59 |
Telvana | As for "mask usage" and "lung damage" you realize there are people who have been wearing respirators for 12 hours a day since the day we invented them, right? | 12:59 |
dTal | I remember some stat from the start of the pandemic that only 20% of people put on respirators survive | 12:59 |
dTal | Telvana: Sorry, we're not talking about ventilators, not masks. | 13:00 |
dTal | *we're talking | 13:00 |
dTal | just using the wrong term | 13:00 |
Telvana | I have heard there is lung damage from ventilators, btw. But that's to be expected, lungs are not meant to be forced to work the way they are, but that's also why hospitals are now delaying a ventilator until there is absolutely no other choice | 13:01 |
joerg | I as well learned and believed the age old "it gets less deadly" mantra, until a year ago some epidemiologists and virologists elaborated on the obvious lack of any dynamics that would give SARS-COV2 an evolutionary incentive to evolve that way | 13:01 |
dTal | Anyway - only 20% put on ventilators survived, but without the ventilator approximately 0% would | 13:01 |
Telvana | ^^ | 13:01 |
dTal | it's a last resort thing | 13:01 |
Telvana | correct | 13:01 |
sdfgsdfg | but that's my point, I think we leave too much space for human error, the pressure might be more sensitive at different times etc, so many other things | 13:01 |
sdfgsdfg | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003687021001915 | 13:01 |
Telvana | joerg: then why are the world class experts I speak with on a daily basis still say it's true? | 13:02 |
joerg | I'm eager to learn what is the mechanism that falsifies that | 13:02 |
sdfgsdfg | According to the Swiss Cheese Model, hazardous situations occur due to an unfavorable sequence of several errors and contributing factors caused by holes in different securing layers (Reason, 2000). Human performance is not constant and errors are to be expected (St.Pierre and Hofinger, 2014; Kohn et al., 2000). | 13:02 |
dTal | respectfully, I do not think that replacing the ventilators with "a humidifier with eucalyptus and herb extracts that actually have strong antiviral properties" is going to save lives | 13:02 |
sdfgsdfg | so that last part about human errors being expected | 13:02 |
joerg | Telvana: you tell me, you talk with them | 13:02 |
Telvana | dTal: I don't either - might as well inject bleach | 13:02 |
dTal | Nor is it probably true that they "get people killed faster" | 13:03 |
sdfgsdfg | a survey would be appropriate | 13:03 |
Telvana | One thing I've learned from COVID is that if it's going to kill you, it's going to kill you regardless of what practice is done to save you | 13:03 |
sdfgsdfg | I don't see any | 13:03 |
dTal | Telvana: that's... kinda tautological? | 13:03 |
joerg | Telvana: please go ask them what's the mechanism behind this, specifically for SARS-COV2 | 13:04 |
Telvana | Well, what I mean by that is there is only so much modern medicine can do | 13:04 |
dTal | You're basically saying that no medical treatment of any kind is possible | 13:04 |
sdfgsdfg | and in that much there are expected errors | 13:04 |
Telvana | Not that what we've done doesn't save people's lives as it does, but when you get to the end of the road with treatment we've got nothing else to do | 13:04 |
Telvana | there is no magical bullet | 13:04 |
dTal | sdfgsdfg: are you familiar with the "motte and bailey" argument | 13:05 |
sdfgsdfg | I just read about it :D | 13:06 |
dTal | it's when you make a ludicrous and outlandish claim, and then when you're called out on it walk it back to some completely defensible position while pretending not to have done so | 13:06 |
sdfgsdfg | I'm not alone | 13:06 |
dTal | for example, saying things like "ventilators get people killed faster" and "hospitals should replace then with eucalyptus humidifiers" | 13:06 |
dTal | then walking it back to "ventilators are sometimes used incorrectly" | 13:07 |
sdfgsdfg | oh now you put words in my mouth | 13:07 |
sdfgsdfg | Ive never ever said "replace" | 13:07 |
sdfgsdfg | I was suggesting additional natural treatments | 13:08 |
dTal | You suggested, in virtually the same breath, that hospitals should a) stop using one thing and b) start using another thing | 13:08 |
sdfgsdfg | I probably used the wrong word there if I said it | 13:08 |
dTal | that's called "replacing" even if you didn't use that specific word | 13:08 |
sdfgsdfg | now I explained what I intended to say, and corrected it | 13:08 |
dTal | So do you concede then that hospitals should *not* discontinue the use of ventilators when deemed medically appropriate? | 13:09 |
sdfgsdfg | of course I'd rather not be opinionated on that front | 13:09 |
sdfgsdfg | I concede | 13:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +14591 cases (now 1.3 million), +223 deaths (now 26483), +209881 tests (now 69.9 million) since 7 hours ago — Iran: +3356 cases (now 6.1 million), +77 deaths (now 130277), +1418575 tests (now 39.4 million) since 7 hours ago — Laos: +889 cases (now 80722), +3 deaths (now 210), +3867 tests (now 820711) since 7 hours ago [... want %more?] | 13:10 |
de-facto | Karl Lauterbach is new health minister of Germany! This is great news :))) | 13:20 |
joerg | re "becomes less deadly", I really genuinely wonder which virus or pathogen at large did that in the past. I can come up with a list like "rabies, plague, flu..." that didn't or stopped doing so a long time ago. I can't name any that actually obviously did | 13:22 |
joerg | hi de-facto ! :-D yeah Egal wie laut du Bach hoerst, immer hoert Karl lauter Bach ;-D | 13:24 |
de-facto | hehehe :) I am happy to hear this, he is exactly the best choice as he is the most competent in this position by far | 13:25 |
de-facto | finally some good news about Germany | 13:26 |
joerg | I hope for his admisitrative skills on par with his epidemiologic knowledge | 13:26 |
joerg | you know... politics :-/ | 13:26 |
de-facto | .title https://twitter.com/Karl_Lauterbach | 13:26 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: Karl Lauterbach (@Karl_Lauterbach) | Hungary-based nitter instance by Hackerspace Szeged | 13:26 |
joerg | then, he got a real army general to support him with administration ;-) STRIKE! | 13:28 |
Brainstorm | New from New Scientist: Covid-19 news: Australia plans to vaccinate five to 11-year-olds: The latest coronavirus news updated every day including coronavirus cases, the latest news, features and interviews from New Scientist and essential information about the [... want %more?] → https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-australia-plans-to-vaccinate-five-to-11-year-olds/ | 13:29 |
de-facto | yep finally there is some hope for Germany | 13:30 |
joerg | I'm afraid there's not so much he can do right now that would show immediate effect, and in 8 or 12 weeks everybody feels disappointed because things went down the sewer despite of Lauterbach | 13:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Finland: +3412 cases (now 194638), +23 deaths (now 1383) since 7 hours ago — Iceland: +309 cases (now 18642) since 7 hours ago — Malta: +81 cases (now 40015) since 7 hours ago — China: +42 cases (now 111783) since 7 hours ago | 13:35 |
* enyc meows | 13:35 | |
joerg | what we'd need now: 2 weeks hard lockdown. Absolutely impossible for Lauterbach to make that happen, even if he intended to and tried very hard | 13:37 |
de-facto | its gonna be Lindner vs Lauterbach, and Lindner is on the side of the money... | 13:37 |
joerg | so Lauterbach or not, I expect a winter that's the evil older sibling of last winter | 13:38 |
joerg | it's probably too late to chance anything about that | 13:39 |
joerg | change* | 13:39 |
de-facto | its never too late to start improving things | 13:39 |
joerg | yeah, but we'll see the results no sooner than March 2022 | 13:40 |
enyc | updates for Spain ? | 13:40 |
joerg | %cases spain | 13:40 |
Brainstorm | joerg: Spain has had 5.2 million confirmed cases (11.0% of all people) and 88159 deaths (1.7% of cases; 1 in 534 people) as of 7 hours ago. 66.2 million tests were done (7.9% positive). 38.4 million were vaccinated (81.5%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain&legacy=no | 13:40 |
Brainstorm | joerg: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Spain, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 13:40 |
enyc | %cases England | 13:41 |
Brainstorm | enyc: England, United Kingdom has had 8.9 million confirmed cases (15.9% of all people) and 126622 deaths (1.4% of cases; 1 in 442 people) as of 7 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=England&legacy=no | 13:41 |
Brainstorm | enyc: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about England, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 13:41 |
joerg | de-facto: on the bright side: some 50% of germans think the anti-corona measures are insufficient and some 70% want Lauterbach for health minister. Let's hope there's some synergy creating opportunities | 13:46 |
joerg | maybe even more powerful than Lindner | 13:47 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Bawanio: /* Further reading */ * WHO: [https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron Update on Omicron]: Further reading: * WHO: [https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron Update on Omicron] ← Previous revision Revision as of 12:42, 6 December 2021 Line [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 13:48 |
joerg | ^^^ >>Preliminary data suggests that there are increasing rates of hospitalization in South Africa, but this may be due to increasing overall numbers of people becoming infected, rather than a result of specific infection with Omicron<< UH... HUH! | 13:50 |
joerg | that's what you get when politics excel | 13:52 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: natural logarithm: natural logarithm ← Previous revision Revision as of 12:55, 6 December 2021 Line 224: Line 224: A study suggests that Omicron has picked up one of its mutations, ins214EPE, from the HCoV-229E [[common cold]] coronavirus strain, a genetic sequence also [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 13:57 |
joerg | errr | 13:59 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belarus: +1312 cases (now 665125), +14 deaths (now 5176), +14523 tests (now 10.5 million) since 8 hours ago — Romania: +803 cases (now 1.8 million), +54 deaths (now 57153), +17105 tests (now 16.2 million) since 8 hours ago — Croatia: +728 cases (now 631765), +51 deaths (now 11269), +2732 tests (now 3.5 million) since 8 hours ago [... want %more?] | 14:00 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: /* Epidemiology */ avoid river-of-blue links: Epidemiology: avoid river-of-blue links ← Previous revision Revision as of 13:05, 6 December 2021 Line 222: Line 222: Detectable changes in levels of COVID-19 in wastewater samples from South Africa's [[Gauteng]] province were [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 14:07 |
Brainstorm | New from Politico: 2022: The Netherlands holds off on restrictions for the unvaccinated — for now → https://www.politico.eu/article/the-netherlands-to-not-move-ahead-with-controversial-2g-covid-system-for-now/ | 14:27 |
joerg | https://blog.fluxcoil.net/posts/2021/12/society-watching-and-corona-in-japan/ some irrelevant background | 14:35 |
joerg | japan vs germany | 14:35 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Sandstein: Sandstein: Changing short description from "Variant of SARS-CoV-2" to "November 2021 variant of SARS-CoV-2" (Shortdesc helper) → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 14:36 |
joerg | ^^^ those seem flawed, link is not useful | 14:37 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +18833 cases (now 1.1 million), +16 deaths (now 11628), +158413 tests (now 12.8 million) since 8 hours ago — Bangladesh: +277 cases (now 1.6 million), +4 deaths (now 28005), +38369 tests (now 11.0 million) since 8 hours ago | 14:37 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Denmark reports 'concerning' spike in Omicron variant as cases triple in 48 hours | 05DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/ra7kb6/denmark_reports_concerning_spike_in_omicron/ | 14:46 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Denmark: +1648 cases (now 516257), +366512 tests (now 96.1 million) since 9 hours ago — Bosnia and Herz.: +1283 cases (now 278511), +93 deaths (now 12780), +20056 tests (now 1.4 million) since 9 hours ago — Iraq: +615 cases (now 2.1 million), +18 deaths (now 23903), +19515 tests (now 16.5 million) since 9 hours ago [... want %more?] | 15:02 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: During COVID-19 lockdowns, parents' use of aggressive discipline linked to stress "in the moment" and not overall levels of stress, a study in Ohio found. Use of corporal punishment and psychological aggression was highest late in the day, when stress [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/ra7u3e/during_covid19_lockdowns_parents_use_of/ | 15:15 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Ftrebien: Paxlovid and molnupiravir are used for treament, not for prophylaxis: Paxlovid and molnupiravir are used for treament, not for prophylaxis ← Previous revision Revision as of 14:20, 6 December 2021 Line 196: Line 196: On 29 November, the WHO said cases and infections are [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 15:24 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): No change in the exponential line (log plot) for new cases at Omicron's epicenter, Gauteng twitter.com/chrischirp/sta… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467862431003131906 | 15:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Libya: +479 cases (now 375468), +6 deaths (now 5499), +3875 tests (now 1.9 million) since 9 hours ago — Kenya: +32 cases (now 255469) since 9 hours ago — Yemen: +9 cases (now 10034), +1 deaths (now 1955) since 9 hours ago — United Kingdom: +9 cases (now 10.5 million), +1 deaths (now 146056) since 9 hours ago | 15:39 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Omicron has the potential to promote much needed things to happen in the United StatesVaccinations and boosterswashingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12… @BelleTimsitContact tracingapnews.com/article/corona… @apheatherh @BobbyCalvan pic.twitter.com/sySo2RAx33 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467864778332725248 | 15:44 |
joerg | LjL: do you get a newline or whatever that gets filtered out but should get replaced by a space instead? >>and boosterswashingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12… ...<< | 15:47 |
joerg | clearly somewhere at some tier strings get concatenated without addin a FieldSeparator | 15:52 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Hundreds of refugee and international doctors join NHS through innovative scheme: The medical support worker (MSW) scheme, introduced by NHS England to boost the workforce during the covid-19 pandemic, has enabled refugee and international doctors who may otherwise have been... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2993.short | 16:03 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +1565 cases (now 1.3 million), +38 deaths (now 11955), +13837 tests (now 6.9 million) since 10 hours ago | 16:04 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Nature Rev Immunol (@NatRevImmunol): The germinal centre B cell response to SARS-CoV-2 dlvr.it/SDrb8Z pic.twitter.com/BeqWdW0YKZ → https://twitter.com/NatRevImmunol/status/1467871965075492872 | 16:13 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +1501 cases (now 1.8 million), +30 deaths (now 38531), +59999 tests (now 26.0 million) since 10 hours ago — Canada: +626 cases (now 1.8 million), +3 deaths (now 29824) since 10 hours ago — Azerbaijan: +585 cases (now 596973), +16 deaths (now 7983) since 10 hours ago — Sri Lanka: +568 cases (now 568250), +23 deaths (now 14484) since 10 hours ago | 16:35 |
joerg | LjL: :-D http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/__covid-19.2021-03-01.log.html#t2021-03-01T19:21:40 >>LjL:i think i'd rather have my second shot later, but with something covering variants<< | 16:39 |
joerg | quite some prevision | 16:40 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): "Omicron: Need for speedy vaccine redesign, says Tom Wenseleers " telegraphindia.com/india/omicron-… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1467879651540361231 | 16:42 |
joerg | Telvana: just for your convenience, so you have a text to phrase your questions to those leading scientists you talk to at a daily basis: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/covid-19-variants-omicron-may-not-evolve-less-danger-time-nervtag-uk there's more and older stuff, actually googling for https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=virus%20evolves%20towards%20less%20dangerous yields 90%+ explanations which it *WONT* do >> while evolution | 16:48 |
joerg | would drive Covid to spread more easily the virus might not become less dangerous. “Most of the transmission has already happened by the time people get hospitalised,” Ferguson told the Commons science and technology committee. “The virus cares about replicating very fast within the respiratory tract and getting out into the environment. If that happens to kill somebody 10 days later the virus really doesn’t care.”<< | 16:48 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): And for those who say "but not a single person died from Omicron". Well, that's not quite correct: the "it's mild" Tshwane report found that of 166 Covid-positive patients admitted to this 1 hospital in the last 2 weeks, 9 died of Covid & 5 out of 33 [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1467883163909345281 | 16:52 |
joerg | s/which it/why it/ | 16:56 |
joerg | I'd be more than happy why this isn't correct | 16:57 |
joerg | ...to learn why this isn't correct | 16:58 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Austria: +4625 cases (now 1.2 million), +48 deaths (now 12844), +380547 tests (now 112.9 million) since 11 hours ago | 17:00 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Beansohgod: Fixed an inaccuracy with Russia's case count.: Fixed an inaccuracy with Russia's case count. ← Previous revision Revision as of 15:52, 6 December 2021 Line 319: Line 319: | 11 | 11 | 24 | 24 ⚫ |- ⚫ ! style="text-align: left" scope-"row" | {{flag|Russia}} ⚫ | 10 {{cite [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 17:01 |
dzho | LjL: the PM from Bakunin was just continue to argue about the US political partisanship around vaccinations. I don't know how relevant to you it remains, or if it had much to do with channel operations to begin with. | 17:05 |
dzho | My main problem with it was that it was an unsolicited PM. I might have given an ok to pursue the subject by pm if asked first here. | 17:06 |
dzho | anyway, sorry this is a bit late I just figured I'd /unignore and then see if that nick was still here. | 17:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +20965 cases (now 2.8 million), +34 deaths (now 20152) since 11 hours ago — Kosovo: +4 cases (now 161139) since 11 hours ago | 17:37 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Event: EMA regular press briefing on COVID-19, from 09/12/2021 to 09/12/2021 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/events/ema-regular-press-briefing-covid-19-9 | 17:40 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Source here: coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1467896937835896840 | 17:50 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell): As of yesterday, 16 states have detected #Covid cases caused by the #Omicron variant. cdc.gov/coronavirus/20… pic.twitter.com/TWsvDuFFic → https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1467898268516589579 | 17:59 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +9494 cases (now 5.1 million), +92 deaths (now 134287), +301560 tests (now 122.6 million) since 12 hours ago — Jordan: +5811 cases (now 981767), +26 deaths (now 11787), +54223 tests (now 12.5 million) since 12 hours ago — Greece: +4927 cases (now 971148), +121 deaths (now 18716), +103253 tests (now 38.3 million) since 12 hours ago [... want %more?] | 18:02 |
LjL-Matrix | dzho, that's fine, unsolicited pm is normally just a matter of manners I guess but when you're muted from the channel then it becomes a bit more in my opinion. I wanted to know whether they just felt the need to say something topical but couldn't due to the mute (shouldn't, but I can kind if understand) or they were actively abusing the ability to still be reading the channel | 18:21 |
LjL-Matrix | Kind of* | 18:21 |
Dredd | <dzho> "My main problem with it was that..." <- They were quieted here I think so it would have been possible for them to do that 🤷 | 18:23 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: The Anome: /* Epidemiology */ less of the "implies" here: Epidemiology: less of the "implies" here ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:23, 6 December 2021 Line 226: Line 226: In the UK, the logistic growth rate of Omicron-associated S-gene target failure (SGTF) cases over S-gene [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 18:28 |
Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Putative host origins of RNA insertions in SARS-CoV-2 genomes: I concur with Kristian’s cautionary note as to source for the Omicron insert, that actually seems from the alignment to be GCCAGAAGA (not that highlighted). In the -1 reading [... want %more?] → https://virological.org/t/putative-host-origins-of-rna-insertions-in-sars-cov-2-genomes/761/4 | 18:38 |
joerg | LjL-Matrix: I think https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SARS-CoV-2_Omicron_variant&action=history shouldn't be a source for Brainstorm messages, at least not without further filters | 18:41 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Jamaica: +67 cases (now 91536), +952 tests (now 678165) since 12 hours ago | 18:46 |
LjL-Matrix | joerg: I usually put Wikipedia history feeds on -ticker but I thought at least for a while this one might give us some important fresh news | 18:46 |
Brainstorm | New from SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant on Wikipedia: Uhooep: /* Statistics */ 336 UK: Statistics: 336 UK ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:42, 6 December 2021 Line 245: Line 245: |- |- ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} | 246 {{ Cite [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php | 18:47 |
joerg | I hoped for finding the "this is a minor edit" flag getting used there, but obviously not | 18:47 |
joerg | it lacks any usable URL, and it adds lots of useless noise like >>Previous revision Revision as of 17:42, 6 December 2021 Line 245: Line 245: |- |- ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left" | {{flag|United Kingdom}} ! scope-"row" style="text-align: left"...<< | 18:49 |
LjL | joerg, yeah i haven't found filters for it. the bot has the "usual" regex filters that it has for all the other COVID feeds, but of course that tends to *always* apply for that feed ("omicron" is in the filter, for a start!) | 18:52 |
LjL | i found my computer frozen when i came here... did the bot just post updates to this article in a machine gun way? | 18:53 |
joerg | I see the problems, just mentioning it | 18:53 |
joerg | no | 18:53 |
LjL | also by the way, you'll see a bit more "Updates for..." numbers now, because yesterday i wiped the database after realizing the bot had completely failed to report on Norways crazily rising cases since September :\ but over time when cases are no longer "the highest" in a given country, it should stop reporting on that country again | 18:54 |
joerg | http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/search?q=New+from+SARS-CoV-2+Omicron+variant+on+Wikipedia | 18:54 |
LjL | like for instance, in "Italy: +9494 cases", that bold generally means it's a record number. but it's not (unfortunately), but with the database wiped, it thinks it is | 18:54 |
LjL | well, i'd say it is a bit too frequent, and also unfortunately what it posts doesn't really make it very clear what the actual change is. plus, the URL is somehow https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php instead of the link to the actual change | 18:55 |
LjL | so all in all it's not very useful unfortunately (it's a shame because wikipedia sometimes catches on some new things very early, although with COVID there are wide discretionary sanctions against adding things from primary sources, which i'm not sure i totally agree with, but i haven't been active on wikipedia for a while, so...), i'll move it to -ticker | 18:56 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Suspected Omicron outbreak closes Paisley primary school: High numbers of staff in self-isolation prompted the closure of Todholm Primary in Paisley. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-59548694 | 18:56 |
LjL | %title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1467905935137914880 | 19:09 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "I don't think so. No virus is known to have self-attenuated, much less in some mysterious tradeoff for greater infectiousness." | nitter | 19:09 |
LjL | (about Omicron not being milder, he also mentions hospitalizations in SA don't reflect that idea, but i found it interesting he actually makes the claim no known virus got wilder, considering how much repeated the myth that "they are all bound to" has been) | 19:10 |
Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Plans to Vaccinate Children Against COVID-19 Among Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Parents: Parents who were themselves vaccinated against COVID-19 were more likely to vaccinate their children than parents who were not, yet even [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/plans-to-vaccinate-children-against-covid-19-among-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-parents | 19:16 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +4262 cases (now 2.7 million), +38 deaths (now 30652), +90009 tests (now 38.5 million) since 13 hours ago — Singapore: +662 cases (now 269873), +4 deaths (now 763) since 13 hours ago — Moldova: +495 cases (now 366751), +27 deaths (now 9244), +4835 tests (now 2.2 million) since 13 hours ago | 19:17 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +50859 cases (now 10.6 million), +42 deaths (now 146097) since 13 hours ago — Portugal: +2216 cases (now 1.2 million), +14 deaths (now 18551) since 13 hours ago — Israel: +700 cases (now 1.3 million), +5 deaths (now 8209) since 13 hours ago — Algeria: +193 cases (now 211662), +8 deaths (now 6111) since 13 hours ago | 19:29 |
joerg | LjL: grep for \(+[0-9]{2,3}\) ? | 19:32 |
joerg | also seems there are "chaper edit" and "summary" tags? | 19:34 |
joerg | chapter. Didn't see them though | 19:35 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Suspected Omicron outbreak closes Paisley primary school: High numbers of staff in self-isolation prompted the closure of Todholm Primary in Paisley. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-59548694 | 19:44 |
LjL | joerg, the thing is i'd have to change the bot code a lot, because right now i can't have a different regex *per source*. all the ##covid-19 sources use the same regex (which is just a very long list|of|terms mostly) | 19:46 |
de-facto | hey LjL how is your arm? | 20:01 |
LjL | de-facto, just hurts a bit, like yesterday, not much | 20:02 |
de-facto | nice so not much side effects? | 20:02 |
de-facto | how about the sneezing? still ashooOOing? | 20:02 |
LjL | de-facto, still feel like i have a bit of a small cold. but that's probably what it is :P | 20:03 |
lastshell | LjL for the booster ? | 20:03 |
LjL | also i have an SMS with my new COVID certificate \o/ | 20:03 |
LjL | lastshell, yes | 20:03 |
LjL | (and by "\o/" i mean the whole thing is sad but whatever) | 20:03 |
de-facto | yeah indeed, thats the goal, making it a minor cold in an ideal world | 20:03 |
lastshell | weird for all covid shots I just got arm pain no cold syntoms :( | 20:03 |
LjL | de-facto, err are you saying i actually have covid? :P | 20:03 |
de-facto | i am saying your immune system is training in the right places | 20:04 |
de-facto | e.g. mucus | 20:04 |
LjL | lastshell, me neither, so yesterday i was a bit worried about the cold symptoms, especially since, you know, well, i tend to be a worried person, but also, the vaccine center is the most crowded place i've been at in ages | 20:04 |
de-facto | na i dont think you have covid, would not make sense | 20:04 |
LjL | de-facto, i'm not convinced it's that :P | 20:04 |
LjL | besides, i had no sneezing or anything like that the first two shots! | 20:04 |
de-facto | some people did not even had their arm hurting in the first two shots | 20:05 |
de-facto | though on 3rd they said it did hurt their arm for 3 days | 20:05 |
de-facto | yeah it does not directly correlate with immunity, but i think its a good sign anyhow | 20:06 |
lastshell | so far omicron seems more less lethal than delta | 20:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Ireland: +2911 cases (now 597161) since 14 hours ago — Luxembourg: +935 cases (now 91709), +5 deaths (now 885), +10823 tests (now 3.7 million) since 14 hours ago — Dominican Rep.: +232 cases (now 408748), +3235 tests (now 2.5 million) since 14 hours ago — Albania: +172 cases (now 201902), +5 deaths (now 3115), +1440 tests (now 1.4 million) since 14 hours ago | 20:07 |
de-facto | do we have data on that already? id not follow the latest news about it yet | 20:07 |
lastshell | well is not oficial yet | 20:07 |
lastshell | doctors says they need more time deaths occur after 2 or 3 weeks of infection | 20:07 |
de-facto | yeah indeed | 20:08 |
lastshell | I hope is less lethat | 20:08 |
de-facto | honestly i doubt it (unless some super antigen became broken that did annoy the immune system and trigger cytokine storm with previous variants) | 20:09 |
lastshell | also we don't know yet hot effective are the vaccines + booster agains omicron | 20:10 |
lastshell | *how | 20:10 |
de-facto | yeah we dont know, yet i would guess preventing severe progressions while not really preventing infections | 20:10 |
LjL | de-facto, my arm really didn't hurt on the second shot. i think that may be more down to how good the injection was (and how relaxed i kept my arm) | 20:11 |
LjL | on my first, the arm hurt for 2-3 days. not *much*, but it kept on doing it | 20:11 |
de-facto | e.g. T-cell induced immune reactions probably more or less are intact still (due to their memory on smaller parts of the s-protein) while most likely some degree of B-cell antibodies immuno-evasion would be plausible with that many mutations in the s-protein | 20:12 |
LjL | lastshell, it's not just "not official", there are clueful people actively saying we do NOT have real indications it's milder | 20:13 |
de-facto | LjL, though i think the arm hurts not due to the needle but more due to the s-protein blooming provoking T-cells to go berserk (inducing local inflammation etc) | 20:13 |
LjL | like Eric Topol and Brian Hjelle, which got posted by Brainstorm | 20:13 |
LjL | de-facto, i think for me it hurt mostly from the needle, because it started hurting almost right away, and it hurts when i move it in certain ways, or if i lie on it. it barely hurts if it am just keeping it relaxed | 20:14 |
de-facto | for me it did not hurt a bit *directly* after the injection, began to hurt roughly 3h after it and lasted for 3 days (with both 1st and 2nd Moderna) | 20:14 |
LjL | maybe i don't have an immune system | 20:14 |
lastshell | LjL I think the doctor from sudafrica said that most cases are mild | 20:14 |
LjL | de-facto, i got the first small "shock" of pain already during my 15min | 20:14 |
LjL | lastshell, no, *a* doctor from south africa said *the cases they've seen* have been mild | 20:14 |
de-facto | LjL, sure you have an immune system otherwise you would not be alive anymore | 20:14 |
LjL | but it's also true that they were all young people | 20:14 |
LjL | South Africa has a very limited amount of elderly people compared to say Europe | 20:15 |
joerg | re | 20:15 |
LjL | additionally, they have a 90% or so prevalence of COVID already, so, sadly, many people who were going to die... have already died | 20:15 |
LjL | please don't propagate this "milder" thing until we *know. properly.* | 20:15 |
de-facto | afaik the consensus still is that there is no direct correlation between reactogenicity and immunogenicity (e.g. between magnitude of side effects and magnitude of vaccine induced immunity) | 20:15 |
LjL | especially while authoritative people warn that it's not at all like that | 20:15 |
LjL | you can't take the early rumors from one south african doctor and perpetuate them! | 20:16 |
lastshell | I see so could be worst omicron, because right now the data we have is from young patients | 20:16 |
LjL | i mean, you can, it's the sort of thing tha keeps happening. but it's dumb and counterproductive, sorry | 20:16 |
lastshell | yeah I get your point right now is sort of like anecdotal data | 20:16 |
LjL | lastshell, or it could be just the same as other variants; however, it does seem much more infectious, and that already makes it less mild in the sense that you have more patients, which is more of a problem for the healthcare system | 20:16 |
LjL | a much more infectious variant could be a big problem even if it's somewhat milder. that's also an important thing to keep in mind whenever framing it as "milder" | 20:17 |
joerg | LjL: perl PCRE extended regex? | 20:17 |
LjL | joerg, Python | 20:17 |
joerg | same | 20:18 |
lastshell | also we don't know long covid effects in omicron | 20:18 |
LjL | i think Python has some of its own idioms in its regexes | 20:18 |
LjL | but anyway, i don't really use anything special | 20:18 |
LjL | joerg, r'(coronavirus|COVID|pandemic|epidemic|SARS|face mask|sanitizer|new cases|Wuhan|Hubei|Lombardy|Lombardia|Moderna|quarantena|quarantine|isolation|lockdown|swab|Milan|\btests\b|\bICU\b|antibod|pcr|dexamethasone|remdesivir|chloroquine|hcq|\bPPE\b|n95|aerosol|airborne|triage|reopen|il-6|il-8|anti-tnf|cytokine|vaccin|biontech|pfizer|astrazeneca|sanofi|sputnik v|sinovac|sinopharm|curevac|coronavac|B117|B.1.1.7|UK variant|SA variant|variants? of concern|d614g|e484k | 20:19 |
LjL | |n501y|s477g|s477n|p681h|n440k|green pass|plasminogen|\btpa\b\|delta variant\|beta variant\|lambda variant\|uk variant\|omicron\|indian variant\|brazilian variant\|B.1.617.2\|AY.3)' | 20:19 |
LjL | whew | 20:19 |
joerg | do you grep or rewrite ? | 20:19 |
joerg | looks like plain grep | 20:19 |
joerg | no s/foo(\1/ | 20:19 |
LjL | i just show an item if and only if that stupidly long regex is found in it | 20:20 |
LjL | no, not "sed" | 20:20 |
LjL | it's basically just a list of keywords where the easiest way to do that was to have a regex (also, it's not case sensitive) | 20:20 |
joerg | maybe I can come up with a PCRE for wiki, won't clean out the trash but should be able to detect if a subtantial edit aka (+99) etc | 20:21 |
LjL | joerg, but again, the above applies to *all* the feeds thrown into this channel | 20:22 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/75/ | 20:22 |
de-facto | heh LjL but where is B.1.1.529? | 20:22 |
LjL | so a regex specific to wiki would have to somehow also not filter out everything else | 20:22 |
joerg | yes, I know | 20:22 |
LjL | de-facto, nowhere, i only added omicron :P i'll add it now | 20:22 |
LjL | definitely do tell me terms that may need to be added, i am scatterbrained | 20:22 |
joerg | LjL: something like "NOT (-..)" | 20:23 |
de-facto | also add a second version without the dots, e.g. B11529 | 20:23 |
LjL | also uh why am i using sometimes just "|" and sometimes "\|", that's not right ;( | 20:23 |
LjL | de-facto, is that actually used? i don't think i've seen it | 20:24 |
joerg | would be prone to false negatives on headlines like "fewer cases of covid (-312)" | 20:24 |
de-facto | google b11529 265.000 results, b.1.1.529 9.710.000 results, omicron 201.000.000 results (holy crap ...) | 20:25 |
LjL | joerg, that's still covid news though, isn't it? it's more if a given source tends to give "unimportant" news then at some point it should be removed | 20:25 |
LjL | de-facto, well omicron is also a letter, i'm sure it was on google before too :P | 20:25 |
LjL | de-facto, try trends.google.com to see it in time | 20:25 |
de-facto | yeah indeed | 20:25 |
joerg | I'm ashamed of my town, just went shopping and almost ran into a few hundred idiots with drums and wistles and shouting, and lots of police all around >:-( | 20:26 |
LjL | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=B.1.1.529,B11529,Omicron | 20:26 |
LjL | still Omicron was basically never a search term until now | 20:27 |
LjL | add Delta also, that one is comparable | 20:27 |
de-facto | yeah spiked only recently | 20:28 |
LjL | joerg, today here two young idiots, no criminals, in the metro hit an 80 year old man on the head with glass bottles because he asked them to wear their masks :\ | 20:30 |
LjL | i think he's in serious conditions | 20:30 |
LjL | one of them has been arrested but the other one is underage so he hasn't been | 20:30 |
LjL | pretty revolting | 20:30 |
dzho | oof | 20:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Eswatini: +347 cases (now 47851), +931 tests (now 395038) since 14 hours ago — Ethiopia: +119 cases (now 372334), +4 deaths (now 6804), +4117 tests (now 3.9 million) since 14 hours ago — Guatemala: +39 cases (now 619891), +6 deaths (now 15992) since 14 hours ago — Eritrea: +26 cases (now 7484) since 14 hours ago | 20:32 |
* joerg feels like dawn of Mad Max | 20:33 | |
joerg | you heard a few weeks ago a gas station employee got shot dead because he asked some idiot to wear mask. Not in my town but in D | 20:35 |
joerg | I wonder how long until shooting back starts | 20:36 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Aivita Biomedical Inc: AV-COVID-19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/74/ | 20:42 |
Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: TESTO COORDINATO DEL DECRETO-LEGGE 21 settembre 2021, n.127: Ripubblicazione del testo del decreto-legge 21 settembre 2021, n.127, coordinato con la legge di conversione 19 novembre 2021, n. 165,recante: «Misure urgenti per assicurare lo svolgimento in sicurezzadel [... want %more?] → http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2021/12/06/21A07254/SG | 20:51 |
LjL | welcome "super green pass" | 20:54 |
Arsanerit | what's that? | 20:54 |
LjL | Arsanerit, a mess of a compromise. from today on in italy, the EU covid certificate ("green pass" here) will have to "levels": the one you can obtain only with vaccination will be the only one allowed for some things (like dining indoors), and that's been dubbed "super green pass" or "reinforced green pass". on the other hand, the normal green pass i.e. the one that you can also obtain every 2/3 days by taking an antigen or PCR test will now be required for things | 20:57 |
LjL | it wasn't before, such as all public transport (for long-distance transport, you now need a super green pass, though) | 20:57 |
LjL | two* "levels" | 20:57 |
LjL | speaking of which, i have a green pass to download and print... | 20:57 |
LjL | (yes, print! because i'm a 20th century man) | 20:58 |
Arsanerit | LjL: That sounds like what they call 2G and 3G in Germany. | 20:58 |
Arsanerit | although there's also 1G, 2G+, and 3G+. | 20:58 |
LjL | Arsanerit, sort of, yes, but... well now that you say there's also those ones, it sounds like it may be even more of a mess than our system ;( | 20:59 |
joerg | LjL: that's called 3G / 2G here and we also got 2G+ which is "vaccinated PLUS test" | 20:59 |
LjL | but anyway, my understanding was that "2G" meant mostly "now the EU certificate will only be valid if you're either vaccinated or recovered, period" | 20:59 |
LjL | while in our case we're creating two "tiers" | 20:59 |
LjL | but maybe i misunderstood, or didn't understand the nuances, of the German/Austrian/NL system | 21:00 |
LjL | joerg, oh, that's interesting, what is that used for? it sounds like something de-facto should/would be happy about :P | 21:00 |
joerg | hotspots afaik | 21:00 |
LjL | since he always said it was stupid to forego testing for vaccinated people in some circumstances like air travel | 21:00 |
LjL | joerg, so in certain location you just have to be vaccinated *and* tested for your certificate to be valid in any situation? | 21:01 |
LjL | how long does the "testing certificate" last? | 21:01 |
joerg | in some situations like restaurants etc, in towns that have... >1000 incidence? | 21:01 |
lastshell | I wonder with the current political things in US they will create a covid passport | 21:02 |
joerg | I think cert lasts 24h | 21:02 |
joerg | honestly I got tired following up on the frequent changes of rules | 21:03 |
de-facto | LjL, yeah i have to deal with that everyday | 21:03 |
Arsanerit | 1G = test required, vaccination status irrelevant; 2G = recovered or vaccinated; 2G+ = (recovered or vaccinated) + test (antigen or PCR); 3G = recovered, vaccinated, or tested (antigen or PCR); 3G+ = recovered, vaccinated, or tested (PCR only) | 21:03 |
Arsanerit | And when test can be either antigen or PCR, the antigen tests have 24 hour validity but the PCR tests have 48 hour validity | 21:03 |
Arsanerit | and recently I heard of yet more variations | 21:04 |
LjL | joerg, that's stricter than us then. in the cases when the "testing certificate" is valid, it's still 48 hours for antigen and 72 hours for PCR. they had said they would probably change that, but then they didn't | 21:04 |
joerg | Arsanerit to the rescue :-) | 21:04 |
LjL | i guess in Italy's situation one must always remember "the government" is actually made up of... every single party except one | 21:04 |
LjL | Arsanerit, i'm not sure if that nuance is good or a massive complication | 21:05 |
de-facto | those "G"s are stupid imho, "Ge-Tested, Ge-Impft, Ge-Nesen, Ge-Storben, Ge-Nervt, ..." how would international students even know what it means if there is a big "3G only" on the doors? | 21:05 |
LjL | i think nobody would understand that system here :P | 21:05 |
LjL | lol | 21:05 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: don't forget Gesund ;) | 21:05 |
joerg | de-facto: full ack | 21:05 |
LjL | also, just about every single german past participle starts with "g" (okay not *all* of them, but most) | 21:05 |
LjL | and | 21:06 |
LjL | i bet anti-vax people will make a connection with 5G :P | 21:06 |
de-facto | heh maybe they switch off LTE on their mobile phones and think they comply with the rules :P | 21:06 |
LjL | ha | 21:06 |
joerg | ge-stoerte | 21:06 |
de-facto | "yeah i switched to 3G reception only" LOL | 21:06 |
Arsanerit | at my workplace it still says AHA+L-3G, where 3G is Geschlossene Räume, Gedränge, und Gruppen | 21:07 |
Arsanerit | https://www.t-online.de/gesundheit/krankheiten-symptome/id_88721420/corona-formel-des-rki-was-bedeutet-aha-+-a-+-l-3g-.html | 21:07 |
joerg | well, they love baby speech to communicate their brilliant ideas. AHAL anybody? I call it ALAH meanwhile | 21:07 |
Arsanerit | "3G Vermeiden!" says a big poster near the entrance of my workplace at the German federal government :-D | 21:07 |
Arsanerit | (or something to that effect) | 21:07 |
Arsanerit | "Gesund", however, is not a past participle :) | 21:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United States: +4656 cases (now 50.0 million), +88 deaths (now 808851) since 15 hours ago — Germany: +11810 cases (now 6.2 million), +222 deaths (now 103826) since 15 hours ago — Greenland: +39 cases (now 1621) since 15 hours ago — Cook Islands, New Zealand: +1 cases (now 2) since 15 hours ago | 21:09 |
Arsanerit | The Coronaschutzverordnung for Hessen is 23 pages of legalese | 21:11 |
joerg | Hirschhausen, ARD: >>500 000 long covid, retirements<< - no news about that | 21:12 |
Arsanerit | joerg: Who is Hirschhausen? | 21:12 |
joerg | TV doctor | 21:12 |
joerg | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckart_von_Hirschhausen | 21:13 |
Arsanerit | I see. Is he to be taken seriously? I've only seen his name when seeing an announcement for "Hirschhausens quiz des Menschen!" which didn't seem entirely serious. | 21:13 |
joerg | he's a commedian, but honest. I don't like him much, but he's a "good guy" anyway | 21:15 |
joerg | you know those clown doctors for kids in hospitals? he kinda is that for adults | 21:16 |
Arsanerit | oh no :( | 21:16 |
joerg | however he's not spreading BS | 21:16 |
joerg | right in this report, he's just moderator | 21:17 |
joerg | or reporter | 21:17 |
LjL | what's this report? | 21:18 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Omicron SARS-CoV-2 variant: a new chapter in the COVID-19 pandemicA good and realistic summary.thelancet.com/journals/lance… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1467949061957459968 | 21:20 |
joerg | https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/hirschhausens-check-up/hirschhausen-corona-ohne-ende/das-erste/Y3JpZDovL2Rhc2Vyc3RlLmRlL2hpcnNjaGhhdXNlbnMtY2hlY2stdXAvNDUyNDljMzQtOGMwYy00YzQ3LWI1OTktNDYwZTVhZDNiNjVm/ | 21:21 |
joerg | .title | 21:21 |
Brainstorm | joerg: From www.ardmediathek.de: Hirschhausens Check-up: Hirschhausen - Corona ohne Ende? | ARD Mediathek | 21:21 |
Dredd | <joerg> "you know those clown doctors for..." <- This isn't at thing we have in the UK 😀 | 21:27 |
genera | i only know him from https://www.dasimpfbuch.de/ | 21:29 |
Dredd | This German G thing seems rather silly to me | 21:31 |
Dredd | It's too complicated and not at all intuitive | 21:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +18063 cases (now 8.9 million), +187 deaths (now 78017), +354269 tests (now 109.8 million) since 15 hours ago — South Africa: +6381 cases (now 3.0 million), +9 deaths (now 89975), +24159 tests (now 19.8 million) since 15 hours ago — Lebanon: +824 cases (now 679625), +10 deaths (now 8785) since 15 hours ago [... want %more?] | 21:34 |
joerg | Dredd: well, I only care about and have to deal with 3G and 2G. That's simple enough since both don't mean a thing to me, I'm vaccinated | 21:36 |
joerg | 2G+ only in hotspot towns/districts. And I never before heard of 1G and 3G+ | 21:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Dec 06, 2021: COVID vaccine-related myocarditis COVID-19 and tuberculosis → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/covid-19-scan-dec-06-2021 | 21:38 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: An advocacy group seeks to broaden access to a Pfizer Covid-19 pill: In a bid to expand access to the Pfizer Covid-19 pill, an advocacy group is trying to create a path for generic manufacturers to sell the treatment in the Dominican… → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2021/12/06/pfizer-covid19-wto-dominican-republic/ | 21:48 |
LjL | joerg, ugh, i could exercise my (practically non-existent) german on that one by turning on the subtitles, but i'm not sure i want to learn about all the horrors of long COVID right now :( | 21:49 |
joerg | I feel with you | 21:58 |
genera | it seems Sachsen/Saxonia has decided to limit public assemblies to 10 persons max. today. | 22:02 |
joerg | summary: 500 000 cases of long covid in germany. Causes: blood clots and nerve damage. Possible treatment: hyperbaric oxigen therapy (1.4bar, an hour or somesuch, 7 sessions), or "blood cleaning" (sorry, can't find the correct english term) | 22:02 |
joerg | genera: seems they finally started enforcing that today | 22:02 |
Arsanerit | genera: including for vaccinated people? | 22:02 |
genera | and mondays are the usual protest days too | 22:03 |
Arsanerit | since DDR days | 22:03 |
LjL | genera, that is wise, i think, given the Oslo cluster | 22:03 |
genera | uh | 22:03 |
Arsanerit | Mondays are for right-wing protests, Fridays for climate protests | 22:03 |
LjL | this thing is going to be a *lot* more of an issue wherever you have gatherings compared to Delta i'm afraid | 22:03 |
genera | i think the police now asks everyone of the 1000 ++ | 22:03 |
genera | well Sachsen has much higher incidents than Oslo i think | 22:04 |
LjL | joerg, i think hyperbaric oxygen has been proposed... for quite a few things, like i think even people with tinnitus tried it (they tried everything, though) | 22:04 |
joerg | :nod: | 22:04 |
* LjL ponders ryouma and feels guilty again even though honestly he had forgotten for quite a while | 22:04 | |
Brainstorm | Updates for Trinidad and Tobago: +801 cases (now 75935), +19 deaths (now 2281), +1135 tests (now 458869) since 16 hours ago — Barbados: +105 cases (now 26200), +2 deaths (now 240) since 16 hours ago — Mauritania: +26 cases (now 39584), +2 deaths (now 842), +1673 tests (now 515803) since 16 hours ago — Monaco: +17 cases (now 3902) since 16 hours ago | 22:05 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Blood pressure up during pandemic? You're not alone, study finds: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Dec 06, 2021 Adults' blood pressures climbed during COVID-19, especially in women. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/blood-pressure-during-pandemic-youre-not-alone-study-finds | 22:16 |
spokojni[m] | we are done :( | 22:21 |
Arsanerit | done how? | 22:24 |
lastshell | spokojni[m] don't worry the end of the world is been posponed from now | 22:25 |
spokojni[m] | aww | 22:25 |
spokojni[m] | how much longer do we have? | 22:25 |
lastshell | as a civilization now we should be worried in 2050 | 22:26 |
dTal | LjL: perhaps this is one of those things the free market would be good at | 22:27 |
dTal | put hyperbaric oxygen chambers in gyms, let people pay about the same as a sauna to use. All sorts of people will give it a go, and quickly a social consensus on what it's good for will be revealed | 22:28 |
Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +1 cases (now 12333) since 16 hours ago — Netherlands: +20967 cases (now 2.8 million), +35 deaths (now 20153) since 16 hours ago | 22:42 |
joerg | dTal: great approach. I heard the guy in that TV report said the health insurance doesn't pay for hyperbaric oxy therapy and he paid 3000 bucks for the 7 sessions he needed to recover from long covid | 22:51 |
joerg | he said it's a bargain, otherwise he had retired from job, due to brain fog etc | 22:52 |
dTal | well, I'm sceptical that he didn't just recover by himself | 22:53 |
dTal | he's obviously motivated to believe that the huge sum of money he spent wasn't a waste | 22:53 |
dTal | is there any plausible mechanism of actiion? | 22:53 |
joerg | that's the maijor problem with long covid: nobody takes it serious | 22:54 |
dTal | I take it quite seriously | 22:54 |
joerg | he said the effect was immediate | 22:54 |
joerg | the physiological mechanism is not entirely clear from that report, they said >>200 times oxygen availability at cells, which allows them to regenerate<< | 22:56 |
de-facto | surprisingly my SpO2 went up from 96%-97% to 98%-99% recently, i am not sure what it means, maybe a late benefit from having quit smoking almost 1.5 years ago? | 22:57 |
de-facto | i never have seen 99% on my SpO2 before | 22:57 |
joerg | the physiological mechanism of long covid are blood clots clogging capillary blood vessels, so any arbitrary organ can suffer oxygen deficit. Makes hyperbaric oxygen therapy sound plausible | 22:58 |
de-facto | indeed | 22:58 |
de-facto | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1 | 22:58 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nature.com: The SARS-CoV-2 main protease Mpro causes microvascular brain pathology by cleaving NEMO in brain endothelial cells | Nature Neuroscience | 22:58 |
joerg | though actually I don't see how oxygen would _solve_ the blood clot problem | 23:00 |
de-facto | .title https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/14/8/807 | 23:00 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.mdpi.com: Pharmaceuticals | Free Full-Text | Lung Fibrosis after COVID-19: Treatment Prospects | 23:00 |
de-facto | joerg, maybe besides improving oxygen saturation in tissue that may be less than optimally supplied (due to damages by COVID) hyperbaric oxygen therapy potentially also can be helpful with autoimmune issues? | 23:05 |
de-facto | (not sure, just guessing here) | 23:05 |
de-facto | e.g. | 23:06 |
de-facto | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521661603000913?via%3Dihub | 23:06 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.sciencedirect.com: Early hyperbaric oxygen therapy attenuates disease severity in lupus-prone autoimmune (NZB × NZW) F1 mice - ScienceDirect | 23:06 |
de-facto | etc | 23:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Bahrain: +25 cases (now 277856), +18599 tests (now 7.5 million) since 17 hours ago | 23:07 |
de-facto | .title https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/9/8/943 | 23:07 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.mdpi.com: Biomedicines | Free Full-Text | Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Alleviates the Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis via the Reduction of IL-17a and GM-Csf Production of Autoreactive T Cells as Well as Boosting the [...] | 23:08 |
joerg | de-facto: interesting | 23:29 |
joerg | I guess I should re-activate my oxygen concentrator | 23:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Brazil: +4385 cases (now 22.1 million), +70 deaths (now 615744) since 17 hours ago — India: +6680 cases (now 34.6 million) since 17 hours ago — Isle of Man: +108 cases (now 12034) since 17 hours ago — Paraguay: +55 cases (now 463427), +1 deaths (now 16479) since 17 hours ago | 23:32 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Report from South Africa's Omicron hot spot spurs cautious optimism: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Dec 06, 2021 Only 2 of more than 160 patients were admitted to the ICU, the hospital report says. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/report-south-africas-omicron-hot-spot-spurs-cautious-optimism | 23:32 |
enyc | hrrm | 23:42 |
enyc | no suggestion UK<>Spain to be red-list-travel in January | 23:42 |
enyc | both countries of good vaccination rates, or so. | 23:42 |
LjL | the omicron cat is very much out of the bag | 23:43 |
enyc | LjL: indeed, in both places | 23:45 |
enyc | but UK colder at the time | 23:45 |
de-facto | i hope that Omicron can be kept from causing too many infections, because actually that would mean accelerated breading on the next mutant | 23:45 |
de-facto | a more infectious variant (in terms of general better fitness in human biology) always is more dangerous than an immune evasive variant (that "only" would need updated immune competence, e.g. by vaccination in order to contain it) | 23:47 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: any thought on new German Bundesgesundheitsminister? | 23:48 |
enyc | de-facto: hrrm... john_campbell was saiyng that he thought we would all get omicron exposure and then get herd immunity to it..... | 23:48 |
enyc | though not entierly enoguh data yet | 23:48 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, yes that we are lucky to have him | 23:49 |
Arsanerit | high hopes? | 23:50 |
LjL | enyc, ah the herd immunity mirage | 23:50 |
LjL | every new variant promising to bring it to us | 23:50 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, if he is allowed to act as he thinks its appropriate, yes | 23:50 |
LjL | (at least according to a selection of people) | 23:50 |
enyc | LjL: hrrm yes seems suspect to me ... but the point was raised that "we will know when we get there" | 23:50 |
de-facto | the problem with SARS-CoV-2 is that it got that furin cleavage site, so improvements to that make it replicate more efficiently independent of possible additional evasive mutations to its s-protein outer surface | 23:51 |
LjL | enyc, that one is hard to argue with, but i will note that campbell has posted... strange videos lately | 23:51 |
enyc | LjL: i see, i'm interested in alternate views etc | 23:52 |
lastshell | LjL why dr campbell is been posted strange videos ? | 23:52 |
LjL | i don't know, ask him? :P | 23:52 |
lastshell | lmao | 23:53 |
LjL | his video about ivermectin which he initially titled "An interesting video" is completely objectionable | 23:53 |
LjL | (and i can only imagine that title was to avoid being demonetized/banned/blocked/whatever from youtube) | 23:53 |
enyc | LjL: Indie_SAGE, John_Campbell, Zoe_Covid_Study I see... who all *seem* (comparatively) credible, but curious who else people watch who they find (comparatively) believable etc.... | 23:53 |
enyc | but always question | 23:53 |
LjL | just handwaving "it works the same as the pfizer pill" while showing how protease works in a childish cartoonish way with scotch-taped scissors and paper strips... | 23:54 |
LjL | is kind of unsettling. and then he skimped on *how* the two are actually the same | 23:54 |
lastshell | yeah most pro people from ivermectin always mention India | 23:54 |
LjL | indie generally means independent, not indian... -.- | 23:55 |
enyc | LjL: who else does similar covid research reporting ? etc... | 23:55 |
lastshell | I mean people claim India cases are lower because ivermectin | 23:55 |
LjL | enyc, the entire list of people that Brainstorm reports from on Twitter? | 23:56 |
LjL | for example... | 23:56 |
enyc | "brainstorm" ? link? | 23:56 |
LjL | ... | 23:57 |
LjL | Brainstorm, hi | 23:57 |
LjL | he only posts things here like so often that half the channel hates it | 23:57 |
lastshell | is not a Bot ? | 23:57 |
LjL | yes | 23:57 |
lastshell | ah ok | 23:57 |
LjL | anyway he's one recent thing from that feed https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1467925776855015424 | 23:58 |
LjL | not good news, for a change | 23:58 |
LjL | enyc, here link https://twitter.com/i/lists/1326305739569324036/members | 23:58 |
LjL | whenever one of those people posts on Twitter, Brainstorm reports it here (assuming he isn't busy reporting something else, because he only checks all of his feeds every 7 minutes) | 23:59 |
LjL | then you have solid science bloggers like Derek Lowe | 23:59 |
LjL | statnews sometimes posts things that i find a little over the top, but also a decent source | 23:59 |
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