| merpnderp | Is it still true that no one has died from Omicron? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Dredd | There's no way to know since we are not sequencing literally every covid case so not all deaths will be sequenced | 00:05 |
| Dredd | As time goes on and the bigger picture comes to light then we'll see stuff like that | 00:05 |
| Dredd | It also largely hasn't been long enough that omicron has been on the radar to have good data on that | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Reunion: +2675 cases (now 63863), +7 deaths (now 391) since a day ago — Argentina: +3089 cases (now 5.3 million), +23 deaths (now 116703), +49100 tests (now 26.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Colombia: +1704 cases (now 5.1 million), +53 deaths (now 128874), +48705 tests (now 28.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Angola: +42 cases (now 65301) since a day ago | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): And consistent with the mutational profile seen in the spike protein, with mutations mostly being located in known binding sites of neutralising antibodies. twitter.com/mugecevik/stat… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1468355486873534481 | 00:05 |
| merpnderp | This sucks. | 00:06 |
| merpnderp | I don't think people really understand how bad this will be if it is just as lethal as delta but as contagious as measles. | 00:06 |
| Dredd | I think what is already clear is that it is more infectious (for whatever reasons) than delta | 00:08 |
| Dredd | Which already isn't great because delta is already pretty bad | 00:08 |
| merpnderp | That's understating it. I've seen 3-6x as infectious as Delta. | 00:09 |
| merpnderp | R0 of Delta was already crazy high at 6. | 00:10 |
| Dredd | Where did you get a figure that high for? | 00:14 |
| Dredd | In the UK the omicron one is estimated to be 3.5 atm | 00:15 |
| dTal | those can't both be true | 00:27 |
| dTal | 6 x 6 = 36, no way omicron is that high | 00:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | they even designed a big special banner with cute flowers and art; describing this party boat superspreader event. The detected superspreader events are now presented to the people with hilarity, joy and friendship | 00:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | yes it's true that nobody died from omicron but we need to let it spread first | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +198 cases (now 718696), +4 deaths (now 25407) since 12 hours ago — Mauritius: +95 cases (now 22251) since 20 hours ago | 00:30 |
| de-facto | if comparing reproduction between Delta and Omicron one important factor would be the *type* of immunity most prevalent in the target population in question, especially since ~32 mutations on the s-protein may imply seroevasive capabilities for Omicron | 00:35 |
| de-facto | e.g. Omicron may evade antibodies raised against Wuhan-Hu-1 or Alpha or Delta | 00:35 |
| de-facto | then independent from that, if the reproduction number comparison would be in a immuno-naive population (probably rare nowadays) in regard to SARS-CoV-2 there may also be a difference due to better adaption of Omicron (e.g. to human biology but also optimizing important replication steps like the furin cleavage site) in terms of general fitness compared to its ancestors (Alpha) or sisters (Delta) | 00:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof Peter Hotez MD PhD (@PeterHotez): Thanks @EricTopol in my view of these data we need a clarifying statement from CDC or WH on whether 1) “full vaccination” now means 3 doses (I believe it does), 2) what does 3 doses do in terms of neutralizing antibody vs omicron (why don’t we [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/PeterHotez/status/1468372488786743305 | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +43808 cases (now 5.2 million), +78 deaths (now 88237) since a day ago — Slovakia: +9380 cases (now 1.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Australia: +1703 cases (now 222266), +6 deaths (now 2071) since 23 hours ago — Burkina Faso: +334 cases (now 16334), +4 deaths (now 290) since a day ago | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why would a 3rd shot (booster) likely override Omicron's immune evasiveness? Take a look at the 40-fold rise of neutralizing antibodies (NAbs)medrxiv.org/content/10.110… (if you missed it, Omicron led to a ~40-fold reduction in nAbs, via @sigallab) pic.twitter.com/kz0YOGFp29 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468377695666855938 | 01:39 |
| LjL | merpnderp, is it good news? a 40-fold reduction in neutralization... | 01:45 |
| LjL | i guess the fact there's still *some, any* neutralization is good news if you're the very half-full glass kind of person :P | 01:46 |
| LjL | <merpnderp> I don't think people really understand how bad this will be if it is just as lethal as delta but as contagious as measles. | 01:49 |
| LjL | <Dredd> I think what is already clear is that it is more infectious (for whatever reasons) than delta | 01:50 |
| LjL | guys, maybe you'll be like "don't listen to tv", but i don't *often* listen, but this pretty crappy talk show (yet, it's what we get) was basically being like "don't y'all experts remember how you were scaring us about this Omicron a week ago and now nobody's even talking about it anymore?!" | 01:50 |
| LjL | the scaring was actually being done by the media. the not-talking-about-anymore also done by the media. the complaining about both: also done by the media. | 01:50 |
| LjL | but "someone" has decided that the message about Omicron must be that it's not a threat, and that the ones calling it a threat were speaking out of turn, at least here. | 01:51 |
| LjL | so don't take it for granted it's obvious what a risk Omicron is, because there's some hefty, *working* rhetoric around to consider it either nothing of consequence, or even beneficial | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Vaccines should work against Omicron variant, WHO says: A small study in South Africa suggests the new variant could partially evade the Pfizer jab. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59573037 | 02:08 |
| LjL | bit of a spin of a headline eh | 02:09 |
| LjL | second sentence in the actual article: "Researchers say there was a "very large drop" in how well the vaccine's antibodies neutralised the new strain." | 02:10 |
| LjL | then "But the WHO's Dr Mike Ryan said there was no sign Omicron would be better at evading vaccines than other variants." but uh, actually there is, 40-fold vs beta's 9-fold | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Norway: +5143 cases (now 294754) since 14 hours ago — Uruguay: +237 cases (now 401340), +1 deaths (now 6137), +8887 tests (now 4.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Barbados: +106 cases (now 26306), +2216 tests (now 445197) since a day ago | 02:10 |
| LjL | so the headline should be more like "Vaccine should work against Omicron, if you take a booster, and only right after you've taken that booster, because it looks from the study we're citing that it's just enough to retain some immunity" | 02:13 |
| LjL | and then they go as far as giving credit to the idea it's milder, which many people i trust more than the WHO (sorry, WHO) say everyone should at least shut up about until we *know*, and i wholeheartedly agree | 02:13 |
| minthos | WHO has lost so much credibility from all the stupid crap they've been saying about the pandemic | 02:17 |
| LjL | though to be fair they're hardly the only ones, it's a stupidcrap party | 02:19 |
| LjL | (with more than 120 infected) | 02:19 |
| LjL | if i had the ability i'd try to figure out who's against who on Twitter among all the presumed experts i half-follow | 02:20 |
| LjL | i feel if you dissected it fully, they'd mostly all hate what each other has to say | 02:20 |
| LjL | but they only sometimes make it apparent with direct shade | 02:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Regarding memory B cells: The hybrid immunity outcomes and the 3-dose (boosted) RNA vaccine outcomes combined with the Sigal and Murrell data indicate that memory B cells have a good chance of recognizing Omicron well.(see above) But I would like [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1468390504563822592 | 02:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Syria: +92 cases (now 48801), +6 deaths (now 2788) since 23 hours ago — Rwanda: +20 cases (now 100449), +20372 tests (now 3.6 million) since a day ago — Ivory Coast: +18 cases (now 61844), +7434 tests (now 1.2 million) since 23 hours ago | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Monoclonal Sotrovimab retains activity against OmicronGood news! A 2.7x shift, so it should still be an effective COVID therapeutic drug in high risk patients. 18/nbiorxiv.org/content/10.110… → https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1468390505461420035 | 02:35 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1468390497915834369 | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): "b) 5x drop in Omicron neutralization by people with hybrid immunity" | nitter | 02:37 |
| LjL | i think they're talking about vaccine+natural a "hybrid" immunity there, but still, unsurprisingly, i'm increasingly regretting not opting for Moderna to mix with my Pfizer instead of more Pfizer ;( | 02:37 |
| LjL | (but to be fair i'd probably be regretting not doing the other way around if i had done the other way around) | 02:37 |
| LjL | <CarlSagan_> [Ars Technica - Science] Officials trying to contact all 53K anime convention attendees in omicron probe https://arstechnica.com/?p=1818725 2021-12-07T23:22:13 | 02:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): So, again, current take home messages for Omicron immunity: Get vaccinated. Get boosted. Hybrid immunity is good.end/n → https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1468390506577100801 | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): 1) What do I think about Omicron now that some neutralization data is available? My impression hasn't change. We seem to see a drastic reduction in neutralizing activity, far more than with previous variants. Little activity was left in vaccinated [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468397677562011650 | 02:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Congo: +96 cases (now 19066), +5 deaths (now 359) since a day ago — Nicaragua: +74 cases (now 17328) since a day ago — St. Vin. and Gren.: +22 cases (now 5645), +234 tests (now 91554) since a day ago — Sierra Leone: +3 cases (now 6405) since a day ago | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): 7)...that target neutralizing epitopes conserved between wild type SARS-CoV-2 and Omicron. The fact that we find residual neutralizing activity in some individuals with high titers can also be seen as evidence for this. Now, when Omicron spike is [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468400012480679936 | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): 9) All of the above may also depend on the vaccine that was used. Some vaccines will likely provide better protection than others. I am most worried about inactivated vaccines and 'one-shot' vaccines. → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468401269844942848 | 03:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): PS: We are all tired. The health care workers are tired, the researchers are tired, everybody is tired of the pandemic. We all want our lives back. Unfortunately, the virus doesn't care. And we can only get through this together. → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468404120746876928 | 03:23 |
| Dredd | <minthos> "WHO has lost so much credibility..." <- Yeah I don't put much stock in anything they say these days | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +7174 cases (now 489484), +63 deaths (now 4020) since 23 hours ago — Egypt: +889 cases (now 364922), +51 deaths (now 20821) since a day ago — Panama: +178 cases (now 479231), +1 deaths (now 7375), +3563 tests (now 4.3 million) since a day ago — San Marino: +91 cases (now 6308) since a day ago | 03:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): PPS: I do not know what all of this means for long COVID. → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468405695468945417 | 03:33 |
| LjL | Dredd, meanwhile i blocked someone on Twitter because they were claiming that my criticizing that headline equated to saying the vaccines *don't* work. people just can't help going from one extreme to the other. | 03:42 |
| LjL | yes that includes me | 03:42 |
| LjL | however, i think i'm slightly more aware than certain utter... | 03:42 |
| LjL | *shakes fist* | 03:42 |
| LjL | (i also know blocking them doesn't really do anything, but it may make me stop engaging) | 03:43 |
| LjL | (and create my own twitter bubble, and enable twitter to profile me exactly, but also help stop engaging) | 03:44 |
| xx | I sometimes say something that is critical of the way covid vaccines are described or marketed, and suddenly people think I'm antivax... | 03:44 |
| LjL | i would point to the actual stated findings here, and the surrounding posts | 03:44 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/sigallab/status/1468325162860826634 | 03:44 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Alex Sigal (@sigallab): "There are a few results: 1. Omicron still uses ACE2 2. There is a very large drop in neutralization of Omicron by BNT162b2 immunity relative to ancestral virus 3. Omicron [...] | 03:44 |
| LjL | i assume we'll be seeing the paper soon, but meanwhile, sure, the findings could have been *worse* as he says, but how does one go from "welp, there are some pretty scary findings, but they could've been scarier" to "hurray, vaccine still works"? | 03:45 |
| LjL | that's all i'm pointing out about the headline. it doesn't mean "the vaccine DOESN'T work" (although it looks pretty damn close to potentially stopping working so we need to *have variant vaccines ready very soon* and we don't!) | 03:46 |
| xx | omicron being more infectious = will infect more people, including those who already had covid and are vaccinated = higher chance of a successful new mutation being created that escapes immunity (no idea however whether it will be more or less severe than previous mutations) | 03:49 |
| xx | there, that's all they'd need to say, but they don't say that | 03:49 |
| xx | instead they say "keep 1.5m away from *sick* people and you'll be fine" | 03:50 |
| LjL | well they don't say exactly that but... yeah, i get your grievance | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Boosting is able to give you 2x more antibodies than needed to protect 90% against Delta disease. As omicron requires 10x higher titres to get the same protection as Delta, that means it won't be possible for current vax+boost to provide 90% protection [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1468410984528187394 | 03:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Please find @sigallab @Sandile_Cele22 pre-print showing #Omicron extensive but incomplete escape of Pfizer BNT162b2 elicited neutralization - ceri.africa/publication/?t… twitter.com/sigallab/statu… pic.twitter.com/Q0yfGpCCFi → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1468412689022173185 | 04:01 |
| xx | 10x higher titres? Is that even physiologically achievable? | 04:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +3618 cases (now 2.2 million), +38 deaths (now 21033) since 23 hours ago — Mexico: +3304 cases (now 3.9 million), +289 deaths (now 295601), +22196 tests (now 12.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Bolivia: +1489 cases (now 546155), +17 deaths (now 19264) since 23 hours ago | 04:02 |
| LjL | xx, i don't know, these back-of-the-envelope calculations are... i don't know, i'm not a virologist, but i don't think you can just reach conclusions like this | 04:03 |
| LjL | anyway it appears the preprint (while not available at sigillab.net, at least i don't see it) is available at https://ceri.africa/publication/?token=365 | 04:04 |
| xx | it's a really odd calculation, that's what I'm saying | 04:04 |
| xx | antibody production shoots up to really *really* high levels at some point during most viral infections, and to say that 10x that would be needed just feels weird | 04:05 |
| xx | especially if one's immune system is already primed through vaccination | 04:05 |
| xx | I see, they are doing neutralization assays, so it is not reflective of what happens inside the human body | 04:08 |
| LjL | also this paper was posted on r/COVID19 but somehow my multireddit didn't pick it up and instead posted mostly useless cruft lately based on my logs ;( bleh | 04:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | hey guys, what does this mean | 04:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | Omicron significantly reduces Covid antibody protection in small study of Pfizer vaccine recipients. | 04:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/omicron-significantly-reduces-covid-antibody-protection-in-small-study-of-pfizer-vaccine-recipients.html | 04:13 |
| LjL | we've been talking about it | 04:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | sry I have these tweet link preview feature, my screen was spammed - i'll do a quick read now | 04:14 |
| LjL | it means the vaccine may or may not protect from omicron, but it's "maybe not as bad as feared by some". and also somehow the WHO and/or the BBC think it's actually a reason to boast "vaccine still works", which is a bit paradoxical when they're such an awful reduction in neutralization activity. i mean, hopefully it still "works" anyway, but it's like you get some concerning evidence of x, and you say "everybody, !x, cool!" | 04:14 |
| sdfgsdfg | the wording was awkward to me though, it says it reduces the existing protection... it just sounds like you even lose your existing immunity against delta | 04:16 |
| LjL | what, no | 04:16 |
| LjL | your immunity *against Delta* is not changing | 04:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | ok | 04:16 |
| LjL | but Omicron is poised to become prevalent | 04:16 |
| LjL | it's much more contagious than Delta and it's likely that Delta will mostly disappear, just as Alpha has before | 04:16 |
| xx | to be fair, there's no data yet on what happens if you're infected with delta and omicron at the same time | 04:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | even if it's 1% effective I'm sure media will stretch it to, "it almost works but we do need the vax supplements" | 04:17 |
| LjL | xx, i don't want to be that datapoint | 04:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's probably what will happen | 04:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | public confidence + money | 04:17 |
| xx | LjL: you don't want to collect them all? :) | 04:17 |
| LjL | i'm happy with collecting handheld computers | 04:17 |
| LjL | they are smaller than desktop computers, but not as small and pesky as a virus | 04:18 |
| LjL | it's a sweet spot | 04:18 |
| sdfgsdfg | Dr David Berger says "Looking at the superspreading events so far, it looks like it hardly works at all against transmission, but does still work reasonably well against severe illness" | 04:18 |
| xx | well, if you have some big hands then any computer is a handheld computer | 04:18 |
| sdfgsdfg | it doesn't sound like he knows what's going on | 04:19 |
| xx | why are there still superspreading events happening... | 04:19 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, well, it barely worked with Delta *against transmission*, so that's unsurprising that it doesn't work at all against transmission of Omicron. about severe illness, i think we'll have to wait for more cases *and* for the outcomes of the current cases... | 04:19 |
| sdfgsdfg | exactly right | 04:19 |
| xx | that's right, current omicron cases in europe have not reached the required time yet by which we'd expect deaths to start ramping up | 04:20 |
| sdfgsdfg | it's opinionated doctors like these that seriously contribute to the overall mess | 04:20 |
| xx | (starting from date of first infection) | 04:20 |
| LjL | it may well work against severe disease, but we can't sit just making/taking more of the same vaccine that's *still for the very original variant, not even D614G* and cross our fingers | 04:20 |
| LjL | well, we can, but it's going to be a shitty way to live the rest of our lives | 04:20 |
| LjL | and to make them shorter, the moment a variant arises that manages to evade the vaccine *completely* | 04:21 |
| sdfgsdfg | they'll never publish the news if it evaded completely, it'd cause a political disaster | 04:21 |
| LjL | if hybrid immunity is so highly touted, well, then let's get multivalent vaccines already! on the market, not only somewhere on clinicaltrials.gov where it sits endlessly | 04:21 |
| LjL | i'd be happy with Moderna's Beta vaccine | 04:21 |
| sdfgsdfg | they can't afford to lose public trust | 04:21 |
| LjL | Omicron is not Beta, but really, i *bet* it work work a lot better | 04:21 |
| LjL | who's "they", someone would publish this research, we would see it. it might get discredited, but i think there are enough attentive eyes | 04:22 |
| xx | sdfgsdfg: are you saying that the whole covid thing is not a political disaster already? | 04:22 |
| sdfgsdfg | someone would probably die before publishing a research like that, or get his funding cut | 04:22 |
| sdfgsdfg | or get manipulated by peer reviews, get review refused | 04:23 |
| LjL | xx, it's an incredibly exercise in setting the bar lower and lower while still smiling and pretending like you aren't | 04:23 |
| LjL | incredible* | 04:23 |
| xx | heh, you're right about that | 04:23 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, most of this stuff is preprints and talked about *as* preprints | 04:23 |
| LjL | takes ages to get them things peer reviewed | 04:23 |
| LjL | we're all discussing preprints all the time | 04:23 |
| sdfgsdfg | ok, no conspiracies then. Carry on :P | 04:23 |
| LjL | idle conspiracies "just because" aren't helpful | 04:24 |
| xx | sdfgsdfg: it's hard to believe that a random doctor from a random village somewhere saying '100% of vaccinated people got infected with omicron and died' would not reach the internet | 04:24 |
| LjL | i think if this paper is corroborated by other studies, it's bad enough, we don't need anything to say "woah it evades it *completely*". like it only evades is 99%, we only need people to *get that correctly*, because that's not what the BBC published as the WHO saying. but the research says something else. | 04:25 |
| LjL | what it also says is: it could evade it more. well, that's great. let's maybe ensure it doesn't. we're late already. | 04:25 |
| sdfgsdfg | on top of that, statistics will also give us an accurate picture of that right LjL | 04:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | we only need time and a bit more patience | 04:26 |
| LjL | we'll get an accurate picture by the time Omicron is superseded by something else still :P | 04:27 |
| LjL | but reality anyway is that statistics on the actual population are always hairy | 04:28 |
| LjL | and you can't do a double-blind study on purposefully infecting people with Omicron | 04:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | I can't wait to watch the news from Israel when they start their 5th dose | 04:28 |
| LjL | (weeeeell... if you're the UK you sort of can, although i'm not sure whatever happened of that idea) | 04:28 |
| xx | anyone have any links discussing whether the flu is going around, and whether the flu vaccine provides temporary immunity to covid (because the immune system is already going like "there's something going on, better produce immune response") | 04:30 |
| xx | temporary = maybe 20 days or so | 04:30 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, to make it clear where i stand: it's been said for months, really since "vaccine" started being a prospect, that we'd likely have to take it every year, or so, like the flu vaccine. it's not something they're slowly pushing on us, we knew (if you didn't, you didn't pay enough attention). what i take issue with is *using the same vaccine every time* without enough research on 1) keeping up with the variants, so that we have a multivalent vaccine, which | 04:30 |
| LjL | could be *much* more useful against any variants, not just the one it's "designed for", and 2) other vaccine strategies like intranasal, to gain sterile immunity and stop this from reproducing, creating more variants | 04:30 |
| xx | it's correlational (because people sick with flu stay at home, mostly), but I don't remember being sick with flu or shortly afterwards getting infected with any other disease | 04:31 |
| LjL | xx, i doubt it. i have something about flu-like illnesses in Italy, and it looks bad (worse than any other year in the past 20 years for this period, except 2009 during swine flu), but they don't sequence enough to know whether it's *actual flu* or a bunch of other things. children are being mostly affected so far. | 04:31 |
| xx | that's the suspected RSV epidemic, maybe? | 04:32 |
| LjL | xx, i thought about that, maybe | 04:33 |
| xx | though yeah, I have no idea why it would be worse this year (and maybe last year) compared to any years before that | 04:33 |
| LjL | xx, i can't link directly but https://w3.iss.it/site/RMI/influnet/pagine/rapportoInflunet.aspx first link, page 5, has the graph where it compares to other years. the second link is the one where they actually sequence stuff, but i think you may not want to bother with it, just too few sequenced cases | 04:33 |
| xx | very little data then, a pity | 04:34 |
| LjL | xx, i think the idea going around has been that since we basically had *no* flu last year thanks to the widespread distancing, well the more we continue having no flu, the more we (collectively, not necessarily you and me of course) have immunity to it wane, so when a year comes when the thing is actually spreading, it will spread "good" | 04:35 |
| sdfgsdfg | having a multivalent vaccine + the perfect logistics to supply world with equal share of vaccines | 04:35 |
| xx | LjL: it's all hypothetical, but maybe next time when there's a bad flu epidemic starting, then people will at least know about wearing masks, washing hands, working from home, ... | 04:35 |
| xx | but that assumes humans to be rational | 04:36 |
| sdfgsdfg | sounds like it's not going to happen, even if it did - within this framework, a percentage of vax unvax people will always spend half of that year without the antibodies they need I think | 04:36 |
| xx | it's like we're *so close* to actually getting rid of all respiratory diseases that don't have an animal reservoir, but we're not gonna get there | 04:36 |
| LjL | xx, well, some humans did that, last time there was a Really Bad flu epidemic, actually a lot of humans did, but then only some kept wearing masks, some of the rest even had a "San Francisco anti-mask league" | 04:36 |
| LjL | it's almost ridiculous how things are repeating a century later | 04:37 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, i do find it disheartening that 6 months seem to be *barely* the obtained duration of immunity. i was really hoping yearly vaccines would cover it, because i think the logistics of constantly doing it more frequently than that are just absurd. | 04:37 |
| xx | what I find even more absurd is that you're considered unvaccinated after those 6 months, and so all restrictions apply to you again | 04:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | yes, this is now my new fav argument | 04:38 |
| LjL | but keep in mind that the current vaccine is only that weak because of Delta. it's probably pretty good even in people where immunity sort of waned if they met the original variant... but they want. so my point is we need to chase the variants faster | 04:38 |
| LjL | xx, they keep changing that time here actually :P it's 9 months currently down from 12 months | 04:39 |
| LjL | but we're a lot more ridiculous than most countries | 04:39 |
| LjL | (and most countries are pretty ridiculous) | 04:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): —What country has a 44% increase in new cases (week to week) now 120,000 a day avg, a 44% increase in deaths (today 1,800), soaring hospitalizations, and yet to be affected by Omicron?— 4% of the world's population, contributing 25% of the new cases newsnodes.com/us → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468422268942307332 | 04:39 |
| de-facto | i wonder how neutralization evasion would be against SinoVac for Omicron | 04:39 |
| de-facto | relative to D614G | 04:39 |
| xx | LjL: you're right, it might be 9 months, I admit I can't keep up with all the regulatory changes happening | 04:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +17981 cases (now 2.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 04:40 |
| sdfgsdfg | I heard european countries let you get a certificate if you've contracted the virus, is that right ? so it's like an immunity certficiate rather than vaccination cert | 04:40 |
| de-facto | yea 6 months | 04:40 |
| xx | yes, and some people intentionally try to get infected after those 6 months, so that they don't need to get the vaccine | 04:41 |
| xx | pretty wild stuff if you ask me | 04:41 |
| minthos | big brain moment there | 04:41 |
| minthos | the virus only protects against the virus for 6 months so let's get the virus every 6 months so we don't get the virus ... | 04:42 |
| xx | no, not "so we don't get the virus" but "so we don't have to get the vaccine" | 04:42 |
| sdfgsdfg | commonwealth countries refuse to recognize natural immunity, you can't get a certificate for example in Australia if you've had covid | 04:42 |
| sdfgsdfg | the laws are more certain than the scientific surveys | 04:43 |
| LjL | de-facto, some of these twitter people (i lost track who) said they are particularly worried about single-shot vaccines *and inactivated ones*. but they didn't explain why | 04:45 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, yes, the EU certificate can be from vaccination, infection, or a test (PCR or rapid). but each country decides how long each type of certificate is valid for, and what things it can be used for | 04:46 |
| LjL | most people who have immunity are encouraged to have a single-shot vaccine here | 04:46 |
| LjL | i mean who have natural immunity | 04:46 |
| de-facto | LjL, interesting, any idea to why? do they expect some ADE effects or such? | 04:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, it's just this tweet https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468401269844942848 he doesn't elaborate | 04:53 |
| LjL | i guess it may simply be because we already know the immunity they give is lower against prior variants | 04:53 |
| LjL | i tweeted a question about it, but i doubt he'll reply | 04:54 |
| de-facto | i think the key question is not so much level of immunity but more how broad the antibody affinity is (how local, hence ease of evasion) | 04:55 |
| de-facto | "Can you expand a bit on why inactivated vaccines might perform worse in this situation?" -> "Because they perform worse overall." <- erm thats not enlightening in terms to what in particular he had in mind with "worse overall" | 04:58 |
| de-facto | also those neutralization assays say nothing about T-cell induced immunity | 05:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer’s vaccine provides some protection against Omicron, a lab study suggests → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/pfizer-vaccine-efficacy-omicron-variant-7661801/ | 05:26 |
| LjL | someone retweeted by "anti-WHO" tweet saying "I have much criticism for the WHO that I don’t express out loud bc enough people are…and this is a bad statement. But they’re dealing with vax hesitancy in countries that need if most, & today’s news is a nightmare for them." - but then they deleted that tweet | 05:36 |
| LjL | right when i was replying | 05:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Pakistan: +310 cases (now 1.3 million), +9 deaths (now 28793), +43503 tests (now 22.3 million) since a day ago — Mongolia: +310 cases (now 384288), +3 deaths (now 2023) since 23 hours ago — Belgium: +10878 cases (now 1.9 million), +41 deaths (now 27360), +74133 tests (now 25.5 million) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 05:36 |
| LjL | so anyway someone else asked Krammer the same question? i may want to delete mine then ;( | 05:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, but his answer makes sense to me, it was one of the "options" in my own question... if he knows efficacy against pre-Omicron variants is lower with those vaccines, then it doesn't automatically follow that they're useless with Omicron, but... it's a fair supposition | 05:38 |
| de-facto | i imagine it like this: neutralization is a landscape in the space of possible mutations (those that allow the virus to still replicate in human body) that 1) got a limited amount of volume (due to restricted immune resources) and 2) can either be localized "sharply" around a certain variant of antigen or distribute itself more "broadly" (but for the price of having a lower maximum) | 05:43 |
| de-facto | i guess with the current s-protein based vaccines we have a more localized "sharp" peak (highly neutralizing but only if the antigen against which it was raised does not have too much phylogenetic distance to the wild type of contamination), hence i think we somehow have to "broaden" the variety of immunity (while still aiming it at the most promising targets) | 05:46 |
| de-facto | but thats just my guess, no data on that | 05:47 |
| LjL | i am not very much at ease with the idea of injecting the other proteins too, though | 05:47 |
| LjL | i get your point, but i also remember nixonix was concerned that the N-protein could be actively dangerous | 05:48 |
| LjL | i would broaden the variety of immunity by having multivalent vaccines that combine a few variant spikes | 05:48 |
| LjL | or figure out just which part of SARS gives you "universal immunity" when you also take a COVID vaccine after having had it... | 05:49 |
| LjL | which i think was such a huge finding and nobody talked about it | 05:49 |
| de-facto | yeah | 05:49 |
| de-facto | hence i said aiming at promising targets, but do we know them? | 05:49 |
| de-facto | s-protein certainly is one of them (as neutralizing it prevents cell entry) but obviously also a moving target, hence we would need a "shotgun" with wide range to have impact on all possible variants | 05:50 |
| de-facto | another one could be other key proteins in the replication process, targets on which the virus replication process is highly dependent from, e.g. where potential evasive antigenic drift comes with a high price of fitness decline | 05:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Amid push to vaccinate children, other challenges deluge pediatricians → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/coronavirus-vaccination-children-pediatricians-7661839/ | 06:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +67757 cases (now 6.3 million) since 20 hours ago — Catalonia, Spain: +9652 cases (now 979986), +6 deaths (now 16041) since 2 days ago — North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany: +16301 cases (now 1.2 million), +135 deaths (now 19337) since 2 days ago — Bavaria, Germany: +15708 cases (now 1.2 million), +220 deaths (now 18174) since 23 hours ago | 06:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Air filters work! #COVIDisAirborne twitter.com/orla_hegarty/s… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1468454837889249282 | 06:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zimbabwe: +4031 cases (now 145632), +5 deaths (now 4718), +11535 tests (now 1.6 million) since 19 hours ago | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +19546 cases (now 2.3 million), +132 deaths (now 34034) since a day ago | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): Monoclonal Antibody Rx for COVID Can Be Safely Given by Injection: Study → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 07:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Financial Times (@FinancialTimes): What do we know about the Omicron variant so far? We'll be back on Twitter Spaces today discussing this at 2pm GMT/9am ET with @clivecookson @jburnmurdoch @hannahkuchler @mroliverbarnes @SarahNev & @donatopmancini Tweet questions to @financialtimes on.ft.com/3EAj0gL → https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1468475949750665230 | 08:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Americans’ Pandemic-Era ‘excess savings’ are dwindling for many → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/americans-pandemic-era-excess-savings-are-dwindling-for-many-7661959/ | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Armenia: +410 cases (now 341468), +10 deaths (now 7728), +8485 tests (now 2.4 million) since 23 hours ago — New Caledonia: +30 cases (now 12321), +1 deaths (now 280) since 23 hours ago — Comoros: +6 cases (now 4554) since a day ago | 08:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Food workers have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. New study shows food industry strategies of masking, physical distancing, ventilation, handwashing, and surface disinfection provide significant protection, resulting in less than 1% [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/rblo5b/food_workers_have_been_disproportionately/ | 08:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 08, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rbm7m6/daily_discussion_thread_december_08_2021/ | 09:03 |
| Dredd | <sdfgsdfg> "they'll never publish the news..." <- It would quickly become apparent anyway so I don't buy that. They'd be caught in the lie | 09:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): Key points from latest Omicron immune escape study:• The % figures *do not equate to vaccine efficacy*• Two doses clearly insufficient vs Omicron. Third doses absolutely essential• 3x Pfizer looks similar to 2x Pfizer + infection• No data on [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468494406516887556 | 09:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kerala, India: +4656 cases (now 5.2 million), +134 deaths (now 41902) since 23 hours ago — Gujarat, India: +61 cases (now 827806) since 23 hours ago — Punjab, India: +47 cases (now 603556), +1 deaths (now 16612) since 23 hours ago — Uttarakhand, India: +21 cases (now 344385) since 23 hours ago | 09:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): And more Omicron pseudovirus neutralisation data below. twitter.com/BenjMurrell/st… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1468499673879134208 | 09:41 |
| Guest54 | I finally got it and I am double jabbed. It's a nasty flu-like feeling. How long is it suppoed to last? | 09:50 |
| Telvana | 24 - 48 hours | 09:51 |
| Telvana | oh wait, you got COVID?E | 09:52 |
| Guest54 | yes | 09:52 |
| Guest54 | most likely omicron | 09:52 |
| Telvana | I thought you meant you got your second shot, sorry. It's late here and I'm half asleep | 09:52 |
| Guest54 | no i had my 2d shot in june | 09:52 |
| Telvana | Most I've seen who've had COVID were sick for 3-10 days, but I don't think there is any consensus in how long - depends on a lot of factors | 09:53 |
| Guest54 | so if i have flu-like symptoms does it mean this is the worst that can happen ot can it get worse? | 09:55 |
| Guest54 | s/ot/or | 09:55 |
| Telvana | No real way to know, but being double vaccinated in theory it will keep you from getting a bad case | 09:55 |
| Guest54 | I didn't do the PCR test yet. Is it possible that excessive mucus could have given a false positive? | 09:56 |
| Telvana | no | 09:57 |
| Telvana | Roughly how old are you, if you don't mind my asking? | 09:58 |
| Guest54 | 55 | 09:58 |
| Telvana | Alright, what kind of test did you take? | 09:58 |
| Guest54 | lateral flow | 09:58 |
| Guest54 | i did two in a row both positive | 09:59 |
| genera | a Wohnzimmer-test? | 09:59 |
| Guest54 | ?????? | 09:59 |
| genera | does it differentiate omicron from sigma oder delta? | 09:59 |
| Guest54 | god knows | 09:59 |
| Guest54 | the pcr would | 09:59 |
| Telvana | I am not certain of lateral-flow false-positive data, btw | 10:00 |
| genera | yah but there are some test which dont trigger on omicron | 10:00 |
| Guest54 | I have a box of about 50 lateral flow tests | 10:00 |
| genera | some vendors | 10:00 |
| Telvana | I do know it's testing for certain proteins | 10:01 |
| Telvana | Which in that case would be logical if it's looking for a specific protein and Omicron's protein is just a little different | 10:01 |
| Telvana | https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-11-11-oxford-university-and-phe-confirm-lateral-flow-tests-show-high-specificity-and-are | 10:03 |
| Telvana | Apparently they are accurate - but there are counterarguments which the FDA has brought up | 10:04 |
| Telvana | https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1514 | 10:04 |
| Guest54 | god the headache! | 10:13 |
| Guest54 | it's a weird headache. Aspirin does nothing | 10:16 |
| * xx hopes it can't be transmitted over irc | 10:17 | |
| xx | have we ever had someone positive for covid in this channel? | 10:17 |
| minthos | we should set up a bot to do testing and contact tracing | 10:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): These data imply that a 3rd dose (40x increase) roughly cancels out Omicron's evasion (40x decrease). And that fully boosted people will have a protection only equivalent to a two-dose regimen after waning. Which is also the conclusion I came to based on the [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1468509638324805632 | 10:18 |
| minthos | I'm sitting pretty far from my computer but still | 10:19 |
| Guest54 | what does one do when they are bed riiden and have covid? | 10:19 |
| Guest54 | beside watching stupid YT videos? | 10:21 |
| zutt | read, sleep? | 10:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ukraine: +9921 cases (now 3.7 million), +480 deaths (now 94949) since 23 hours ago — El Salvador: +1 deaths (now 3790) since a day ago | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Important that these are neutralising antibodies only. Other antibodies, swift reaction and adaptation, and T cell response should prevent severe disease. Booster is important. But this is in line with expectations; omicron is very infectious and NAb activity [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468513625325379593 | 10:38 |
| undefined_bob | too bad for him :( | 10:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Changing the definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ is more than just semantics, experts argue: Should the definition of “fully vaccinated” change, now that access to Covid-19 boosters is widespread? Experts say it’s more complicated than you think. → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/08/changing-definition-fully-vaccinated-more-than-semantics/ | 10:47 |
| xx | should have rested rather than gone online | 10:51 |
| xx | I hear one doesn't need to breathe as much if one is resting and lowers their heart rate | 10:52 |
| xx | I'm trying to cut it down to 3 breaths/minute | 10:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Covid Shows Ominous Signs As Winter Sets In; Omicron Incidental To Flare-Up - Dr. Paul Bozyk ...about the desperate situation some Michigan hospitals are dealing with as Covid hospitalizations are the highest they've [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/rbnwzj/covid_shows_ominous_signs_as_winter_sets_in/ | 10:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): A PCR method from @shay_fleishon & colleagues which can specifically detect #Omicron -- both lineages BA.1 & BA.2 (which does not show the SGTF).Fanatically fast work on what's quickly becoming a global variant, openly shared for the benefit of [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468523380672544770 | 11:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Omicron Covid-19 variant: Top international developments today → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/omicron-covid-19-variant-latest-developments-7662391/ | 11:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Austria: +5663 cases (now 1.2 million), +58 deaths (now 12979), +395681 tests (now 113.7 million) since a day ago — Israel: +524 cases (now 1.3 million) since 16 hours ago — United Kingdom: +45508 cases (now 10.6 million) since 19 hours ago | 11:30 |
| * enyc meows | 11:33 | |
| enyc | many in UK able to book booster vaccination today 40+ / vulnerable / health/social care for 3mo rather than 6mo | 11:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): Don't forget to mark your calendars & register for this @MCIDBern @unibern event on #Omicron TODAY at 17.00 CET - we are all busy rewriting our slides to cover all the new data from the past few days Live-translated to German & French on [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468530838845415428 | 11:43 |
| disconnect_me | https://planetes360.fr/pr-luc-montagnier-les-variants-viennent-des-vaccinations/ | 11:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | enyc : "... found that the ability to mount an antibody response to Omicron in people who had three shots of BioNTech/Pfizer was up to 37 times lower than the response to Delta." | 11:52 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-partially-protective-against-omicron-bloomberg-news-2021-12-07/ | 11:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): I guess the lesson is don't use Alphafold2 to predict if a virus can still be neutralized by existing antibodies. twitter.com/florian_kramme… → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468532705147117571 | 11:53 |
| sdfgsdfg | meine Güte | 11:56 |
| Trippy72894 | Okay, so does ivermectin work or not? | 11:58 |
| enyc | sdfgsdfg: hrrm not seen very many studies though | 12:01 |
| enyc | sdfgsdfg: also, is this going to stop people bothering etc? | 12:02 |
| enyc | this news | 12:02 |
| darsie | Trippy72894: It works if you want to kill yourself. I guess you can also deworm horses with it. | 12:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): Excellent thread from @mugecevik summarising what we've learned from the Omicron immune evasion studies overnight, and where that leaves us twitter.com/mugecevik/stat… → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468535679319953409 | 12:03 |
| sdfgsdfg | I've been mentioning eucalyptus, corn mint and myrtle essential oil, humidifier is a great way to look after yourself with some vitamin D too. These things have anti-inflammatory, immunomodulatory, bronchodilatory, and antiviral properties proven by the science. No in vitro studies yet, at least for covid.. so who knows maybe they dont work | 12:03 |
| Trippy72894 | thanks, darsie. and no, i wouldn't take it if i had covid. | 12:04 |
| Trippy72894 | not without plenty of good evidence | 12:05 |
| darsie | Why let covid kill you if you could do it with ivermectin :). | 12:06 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 12:07 |
| enyc | sdfgsdfg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-08/omicron-threat-may-be-countered-with-extra-dose-of-covid-vaccine some news says the other way | 12:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Poland: +28549 cases (now 3.7 million), +591 deaths (now 86796), +115051 tests (now 25.2 million) since a day ago — Libya: +509 cases (now 376378), +4 deaths (now 5518), +3863 tests (now 1.9 million) since 21 hours ago | 12:08 |
| * sdfgsdfg starts making some popcorn | 12:08 | |
| darsie | Forsythia also works, according to a guy in the movie Contagion. | 12:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | about the essential oils I mentioned earlier "Owing to their lipophilic nature, EOs are advocated to penetrate viral membranes easily leading to membrane disruption. Moreover, EOs contain multiple active phytochemicals that can act synergistically on multiple stages of viral replication and also induce positive effects on host respiratory system including bronchodilation and mucus lysis. At present, only computer-aided docking and few in vitro | 12:25 |
| sdfgsdfg | studies are available which show anti-SARC-CoV-2 activities of EOs" | 12:25 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7427755/ | 12:25 |
| xx | darsie: that's such a racist thing to say... | 12:25 |
| darsie | Which race of forsythia are we talking about? | 12:26 |
| xx | I mean that ivermectin thing | 12:26 |
| xx | over 600M doses are distributed in africa each year, and you compare those people to horses | 12:27 |
| xx | you really should feel bad | 12:27 |
| sdfgsdfg | horses or not they got shot with outdated vaccines | 12:28 |
| xx | it's like the main use of ivermectin, no idea where you came up with it being just a horse dewormer | 12:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | like the rest of us | 12:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Croatia: +4751 cases (now 639778), +54 deaths (now 11383), +12790 tests (now 3.5 million) since 20 hours ago | 12:33 |
| undefined_bob | xx: its an antiparasitic medicine, which is used in humans and live stock. But only for antiparasitic purpose | 12:33 |
| xx | undefined_bob: yes, but I still don't like racists | 12:33 |
| xx | ivermectin is one of the drugs that has saved tens of millions of people in africa from suffering horrible parasitic illnesses | 12:34 |
| xx | and comparing them to horses is just horrible | 12:34 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's inhuman | 12:34 |
| sdfgsdfg | comparing people to horses | 12:34 |
| * enyc meows | 12:40 | |
| * sdfgsdfg meows louder | 12:52 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +264 cases (now 4.3 million), +16 deaths (now 143909), +378197 tests (now 56.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Oman: +23 cases (now 304654) since a day ago — Nepal: +255 cases (now 823357), +2 deaths (now 11547), +9168 tests (now 4.7 million) since a day ago | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): This does not as yet tell us about pathogenicity or competition with Delta. But, the best host-viral interaction at a given time will determine the latter, and for now, avoiding some antibodies is an advantage for Omicron. Better ACE2 binding as well. → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468551400380588032 | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from BioNTech: BioNTech to Hold Digital Press Conference to Provide an Update on Omicron Variant: MAINZ, Germany, December 8, 2021 – BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, “BioNTech” or “the Company”) will hold a digital press conference on [... want %more?] → https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-hold-digital-press-conference-provide-update-omicron | 13:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Africa: First global studies suggest Omicron escapes vaccine immunity, but boosters show promise → https://www.politico.eu/article/first-global-studies-suggest-omicron-escapes-vaccine-immunity-boosters-show-promise/ | 13:30 |
| xx | so I checked it out and "ivermectin is just a horse dewormer" is a copy-paste rhetoric used by anti-antivax people who don't know anything about the actual drug and how it has changed lives for hundreds of millions of people | 13:33 |
| xx | so not immediatelly racist, but still has racist connotations by whoever came up with it first | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malta: +87 cases (now 40188) since a day ago | 13:35 |
| undefined_bob | xx: thats not true at all. The phrase 'horse dewormer' came from anti-vaxx people who took ivermectin meant for horses and other live stock and not for human use | 13:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: One Million Boosters A Day: Additional Covid Shots Hit All-Time High Amid Omicron Concerns | 08DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rbqjqf/one_million_boosters_a_day_additional_covid_shots/ | 13:49 |
| de-facto | .title https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-hold-digital-press-conference-provide-update-omicron | 13:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.biontech.de: BioNTech to Hold Digital Press Conference to Provide an Update on Omicron Variant | BioNTech | 13:49 |
| de-facto | .title https://investors.biontech.de/events/event-details/press-conference-provide-update-omicron-variant | 13:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.biontech.de: Press Conference to Provide an Update on Omicron Variant | BioNTech | 13:49 |
| de-facto | someone understanding German wants to participate there? (unfortunately i dont have time since i have to work) | 13:49 |
| xx | de-facto: "we'll make shitloads of bucks this coming year" - a summary from Pfizer BioNTech conference | 13:58 |
| undefined_bob | no | 13:58 |
| xx | I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that | 13:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Important info in this @pfizer press release on how well their vaccines stack up against #omicron.In summary, two doses may still protect against severe disease - but boosters look pretty essential now. Link: pfizer.com/news/press-rel… pic.twitter.com/Bcsdbp1AN1 → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1468564740792328192 | 13:59 |
| undefined_bob | xx: why you act like a grumpy meanie all the time? :( | 13:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zambia: +62 cases (now 210436), +4618 tests (now 2.8 million) since a day ago — Bermuda: +9 cases (now 5760), +6109 tests (now 656650) since 2 days ago | 14:00 |
| xx | undefined_bob: was that mean? I can't tell what's considered mean in the current decade. | 14:05 |
| xx | it's a genuine expectation that they'll announce the pfizer vaccine still has an effect -> more pfizer orders -> more money for pfizer. And there's nothing wrong with that. | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Treating the Unvaccinated: Should vaccination status be used to triage care for critically ill patients during a crisis? The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/treating-the-unvaccinated/ | 14:08 |
| xx | well, we already don't provide the same treatment to alcoholics vs non-alcoholics, and smokers vs non-smokers, so why not vaccinated vs non-vaccinated (*by choice*) too? | 14:10 |
| xx | doctors probably already do that, it just isn't being talked about publicly much | 14:10 |
| xx | i.e. when actual triage has to happen, they'll provide more help to the person who has a higher chance of survival | 14:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belarus: +1756 cases (now 667893), +17 deaths (now 5210), +29533 tests (now 10.6 million) since a day ago — Switzerland: +7174 cases (now 1.1 million), +31 deaths (now 11708), +75665 tests (now 12.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Dominica: +22 cases (now 6142) since a day ago — Germany: +68340 cases (now 6.3 million) since 22 hours ago | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): "But it’s impossible to talk about Covid booster vaccinations without highlighting the importance of #VaccineEquity . Many people, including healthcare workers & people at risk of severe disease, have yet to receive any doses of a Covid vaccine, let alone [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468574930333745159 | 14:38 |
| Dredd | <xx> "have we ever had someone..." <- Yeah | 14:38 |
| Dredd | <Trippy72894> "Okay, so does ivermectin work or..." <- Doesn't look like it | 14:40 |
| Dredd | <darsie> "Forsythia also works, according..." <- 😀 | 14:41 |
| Dredd | Guest54 left in the end? | 14:46 |
| Dredd | xx: Yeah, ivermectin is a pretty essential medicine for what it actually does well! | 14:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Canada, with its 77% population vaccination rate and #VaccinePlus mitigation strategy, showing the world how Delta can be kept in check pic.twitter.com/ZUeO0z9bVA → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468576725210578947 | 14:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Less waning of immunity associated with more recent vaccination (and long spacing) may be contributing pic.twitter.com/jGga7XeqRu → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468578981251219456 | 14:57 |
| Guest2744444444 | Ok so I tested postive to lateral flow yesterday, then I had massive temperature all night, but I have no fever now. Is it worth doing another test? | 14:59 |
| Guest2744444444 | I mean now. | 14:59 |
| Dredd | Hey, were you Guest54 earlier? | 15:00 |
| Guest2744444444 | probably | 15:01 |
| Guest2744444444 | I dont know I am using libera webchat | 15:01 |
| Dredd | They mentioned getting two positive lateral flow tests | 15:01 |
| Guest2744444444 | yea it's me | 15:01 |
| Dredd | Ah ok, so going back to your earlier question. No, excess mucous wouldn't cause a false positive lateral flow | 15:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +14599 cases (now 1.4 million), +230 deaths (now 26930), +281180 tests (now 70.4 million) since a day ago — Saudi Arabia: +46 cases (now 550043), +2 deaths (now 8849), +38407 tests (now 31.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Bangladesh: +277 cases (now 1.6 million), +6 deaths (now 28016), +20549 tests (now 11.0 million) since 23 hours ago | 15:02 |
| Dredd | If you got two positives it's for sure worth doing a PCR to confirm if you feel well enough to do so | 15:02 |
| Dredd | How's your headache? | 15:03 |
| Guest2744444444 | Here in UK you haveto post the PCR. How can I do that if I am not allowed to leave my accommodation. | 15:03 |
| Guest2744444444 | Headache better now. | 15:03 |
| Dredd | I'm pretty sure you're allowed to go to a test centre if you think you've got covid even or go post it back in one of those priority mailboxes you can find from the nhs / royal mail site | 15:04 |
| Dredd | Glad to hear you headache is better | 15:05 |
| Dredd | Guest2744444444: aside from getting tested I'd suggest just trying to rest and drink plenty of fluids | 15:17 |
| xx | vodka is fluid | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): South African scientists are leading the world on #COVID19 science and working quickly & diligently to understand #omicron. Is time for global solidarity and financial support to Africa??? Or punished again with vaccines, antivirals hoarding & economic damage [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1468588081397776384 | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Pfizer said 3rd dose is needed, will vaccines be hoarded in the 'developed & selfish world'? What will happen to the profits of the company? Will support Africa? Should financial gains from discoveries support countries that produce transparent data that [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1468588083574681605 | 15:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bhutan: +1 cases (now 2642), +1454 tests (now 1.3 million) since 2 days ago — United Kingdom: +413 cases (now 10.6 million) since 20 hours ago | 15:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Leaked video and story of No.10 Government laughing about secret Christmas party amid COVID restrictions → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rbspbw/leaked_video_and_story_of_no10_government/ | 15:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Update on the now 4 Omicron neutralization studies:Nice tabular summary by @erlichya twitter.com/erlichya/statu…@CiesekSandra's report extends to Moderna vaccine and questions durability of booster restoration twitter.com/CiesekSandra/s…Pfizer data (w/ [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468593675747794946 | 16:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Under fire, UK PM Boris Johnson apologises for staff joking about Christmas lockdown party → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/boris-johnson-apology-staff-joking-christmas-lockdown-party-7663012/ | 16:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Looks like my booster antibody predictions yesterday were spot on. Nice to be right sometimes. pfizer.com/news/press-rel… twitter.com/profshanecrott… → https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1468599956516732930 | 16:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer, BioNTech say booster dose needed to fight Omicron → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/pfizer-covid-booster-omicron-protection-7662984/ | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sri Lanka: +572 cases (now 569743), +28 deaths (now 14533) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +3063 cases (now 1.8 million), +27 deaths (now 29887) since 23 hours ago | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: AnGes: AG0301-COVID19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/3/ | 16:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: N/A: Protected: Chapter 2: Investing in healthcare for a post-COVID recovery → https://www.politico.eu/sponsored-content/chapter-2-investing-in-healthcare-for-a-post-covid-recovery/ | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Risk of Guillain-Barre Syndrome Higher with Recombinant Zoster Vaccine Shingrix: A case series observation study found a slightly higher risk of Guillain-Barre syndrome among Medicare beneficiaries within 42 days after receiving the [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/risk-of-guillain-barre-syndrome-higher-with-recombinant-zoster-vaccine-shingrix | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/75/ | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Aivita Biomedical Inc: AV-COVID-19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/74/ | 17:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): De mate waarin Omicron bescherming tegen ernstige ziekte onderuit zou kunnen halen is nog niet helemaal duidelijk. Maar hieronder alvast toch een eerst preliminaire schatting. Ook daar zouden boosters zeker helpen. twitter.com/DiseaseEcology… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1468618203865702405 | 17:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for North Macedonia: +419 cases (now 218194), +14 deaths (now 7688) since 23 hours ago | 17:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Allergic conditions linked to lower COVID-19 infection risk → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rbv054/allergic_conditions_linked_to_lower_covid19/ | 17:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: 7 early signals from Olaf Scholz: The pandemic comes first, and Scholz wants to take a strong hand on economic and EU policy. → https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-coronavirus-unvaccinate-economy-olaf-scholz/ | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +17946 cases (now 5.2 million), +86 deaths (now 134472), +564698 tests (now 123.9 million) since 23 hours ago | 18:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Peacock (@PeacockFlu): Its become apparent in the last few weeks both Omicron and B.1.640 – two variant lineages with very long branch lengths, have minor ‘outgroups’ that are clearly related but very distant, with no apparent intermediates between them. → https://twitter.com/PeacockFlu/status/1468626588149428228 | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): Hieronder ook een vroege schatting van @HJWesteneng van de snelheid waarmee Omicron het overneemt van Delta in 42 landen, inclusief in België. En wat op het eerste zicht dus even snel is dan in Zuid Afrika. Effect op R waarde zal dus vgl zijn. twitter.com/HJWesteneng/st… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1468627828342202368 | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Portugal: +5286 cases (now 1.2 million), +15 deaths (now 18587) since a day ago — Malaysia: +5020 cases (now 2.7 million), +28 deaths (now 30746) since 20 hours ago — Myanmar: +398 cases (now 525403), +5 deaths (now 19157) since 12 hours ago — Netherlands: +18098 cases (now 2.9 million), +72 deaths (now 20294) since 20 hours ago | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): If we are prepared and with high vaccine coverage (and booster), we are likely to see mostly mild cases and can react to more severe #omicron ones. More than ever, fast science and communication is neeed to respond to this pandemic. → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1468634964136759298 | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Lots of people to thank in SA and scientists in the world who work day and night to provide transparent and high-quality data #Omicron - Together, as a global community, we can face this pandemic. It is more than time to stop vaccine nationalism and travel bans [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1468634968016527373 | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): I'm using @SubstackInc as a Writer-in-Residence for a month to get deeper into Covid and related biomedical matters, with frank perspectives.It's free, please subscribe to follow.First post is an Omicron overview, coming later today erictopol.substack.com/p/welcome-to-g… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468640826955743233 | 19:01 |
| LjL | Boris Johnson is going to hold a press conference | 19:02 |
| LjL | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5M3uoVvkJI | 19:02 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.youtube.com: Boris Johnson holds press conference as plan B Covid rules approved for England – watch live - YouTube | 19:02 |
| Arsanerit | Plan B? We need Plan Ο (not to be confused with Plan O) | 19:03 |
| LjL | other sources https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=boris+johnson+press+conference&sp=EgJAAQ%253D%253D | 19:03 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, lωl | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Moldova: +609 cases (now 367948), +23 deaths (now 9293) since a day ago — Greenland: +83 cases (now 1746), +1143 tests (now 117720) since 23 hours ago — Sao Tome and Principe: +1 deaths (now 57) since 2 days ago | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Hugo Gye (@HugoGye): NEWGovt-backed study into use of antiviral drug molnupiravir starts immediately, enrolling 10,000 patients aged over 50.Separately, the most vulnerable immunosuppressed people can get drug at home from Monday if they contract covid.Story @theipaper: inews.co.uk/news/health/ov… → https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1468642574609047552 | 19:11 |
| LjL | bleh i linked it and yet i missed the start | 19:16 |
| lastshell | partial slides | 19:16 |
| lastshell | where we can see the slides | 19:16 |
| LjL | maybe it's the guardian's fault | 19:16 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIhPqTPxEAA | 19:16 |
| LjL | this has the slides on screen apparently | 19:17 |
| LjL | (well, not right now, but 5 seconds ago it did) | 19:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Plan B announced by @BorisJohnson :From Monday in England - work from home “if you can”. Face mask rules extended to most indoor places. NHS COVID Pass mandatory in nightclubs and other settings with large gatherings. A negative lateral flow [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1468644255832936448 | 19:20 |
| LjL | "i know it's imperfect because we throw crazy parties, but we preach what we don't do so i'm sure the public will appreciate" | 19:28 |
| lastshell | this is why people don't trust ^ | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Eswatini: +895 cases (now 49253), +1653 tests (now 398080) since 23 hours ago — Kenya: +108 cases (now 255652), +5073 tests (now 2.9 million) since a day ago — Malawi: +38 cases (now 62053), +882 tests (now 448167) since 23 hours ago — Djibouti: +1 cases (now 13509), +399 tests (now 249312) since a day ago | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Those at highest risk who test positive for COVID-19, for example those who are immunocompromised, cancer patients or those with Down’s syndrome - will be able to access molnupiravir or the novel monoclonal antibody Ronapreve treatment from 16 [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1468646532962557953 | 19:30 |
| LjL | lastshell, well it's one reason, i strongly think there are some other reasons | 19:36 |
| LjL | meanwhile my twitter feed seems to be saying there are "now at least three" studies showing Omicron has at least 40-fold loss of neutralization | 19:36 |
| LjL | i had just one last night | 19:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): “If the growth rate and doubling time continue at the rate we have seen in the last 2 weeks, we expect to see at least 50% of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases to be caused by Omicron variant in the next 2 to 4 weeks.”gov.uk/government/new… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1468648846268018697 | 19:39 |
| LjL | no Boris, the reason you're having fewer restrictions than other European countries is not because you had the fastest vaccine rollout, it's because you've decided to ignore having 50k cases a day and the EU isn't | 19:48 |
| Dredd | Yay, I got a £1 dividend on my Pfizer shares | 19:52 |
| LjL | heh | 19:53 |
| Dredd | Keep getting vaccines everyone 😉 | 19:53 |
| LjL | Dredd, it says Pfizer sucks 40x against Omicron | 19:53 |
| LjL | so i want my money back | 19:53 |
| LjL | NOW | 19:53 |
| LjL | or you'll hear from my solicitor | 19:53 |
| Dredd | 😮 | 19:53 |
| Dredd | 💉 LjL @LjL:libera.chat | 19:53 |
| LjL | oh lord | 19:54 |
| LjL | i didn't catch this, they decided that if you come into contact with someone who's got Omicron, initially they wanted people to isolate, but now you don't have to if you take a test every tday | 19:54 |
| * LjL facepalms | 19:54 | |
| Dredd | Is Boris currently outlining his plan to save Christmas? | 19:54 |
| Dredd | I'm watching YouTube videos about electricity lol | 19:55 |
| ublx | Is Boris currently making a lot of noise designed to distract attention from gathering calls for his resignation? | 19:56 |
| LjL | Dredd, he's done | 19:56 |
| Dredd | Lol, Boris is like trump | 19:56 |
| Dredd | He can do whatever | 19:56 |
| LjL | i only got the things i said i didn't catch from the quick recap by the Sky journalist person | 19:56 |
| Dredd | Sleep with whoever | 19:56 |
| Dredd | Grab whoever by the pussy | 19:57 |
| Dredd | And he can get away with it | 19:57 |
| Dredd | 😛 | 19:57 |
| LjL | ublx, i'm being told he "might" have done this press conference on wednesday instead of the usual friday in the hope that papers won't spend three days detailing all the hypocrisy of their multiple parties done against COVID restrictons | 19:57 |
| Dredd | He can even say he's going to pile up the bodies in the street | 19:57 |
| LjL | Dredd, for a moment i thought "wait wasn't that Berlusconi" but no you're right | 19:58 |
| LjL | speaking of which | 19:58 |
| LjL | guess who our next president (not PM, president) is likely gonna be?! | 19:58 |
| Dredd | Lol, he probably did it too | 19:58 |
| Dredd | Really? | 19:58 |
| LjL | well, either him or Draghi | 19:58 |
| LjL | but if they take Draghi away from being PM, that'll be a problem | 19:58 |
| LjL | so he's plan B | 19:58 |
| Dredd | Didn't he have ties to the Mafia? | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Suspected Omicron cases rising fast in UK. Estimated R at 4 @Helsedir @Folkehelseinst @helse_og_omsorg twitter.com/alastairgrant4… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1468654281364496392 | 19:58 |
| LjL | Dredd, well that's literally every italian politician | 19:58 |
| Dredd | And underage prostitutes? | 19:58 |
| LjL | i think he was eventually acquitted from that! | 19:59 |
| LjL | but, i mean, yeah, it's going to be internationally a pretty damned poor show if he gets elected | 19:59 |
| Dredd | Is the Mafia Italy's largest export? | 19:59 |
| LjL | more than makes up for "oooh they elected Draghi, that's gonna be cool now, he good" | 19:59 |
| LjL | Dredd, them bosses sometimes tend to be overweight, at least in the public's imagination :x | 20:00 |
| Dredd | Brainstorm @Brainstorm:libera.chat: oh no R of 4 now? | 20:00 |
| LjL | i'd heard 3.5 but maybe | 20:00 |
| LjL | Dredd, by the way just for your information (don't think you can do anything about it), when you highlight people it appears both the nickname and then the account name gets printed | 20:01 |
| LjL | <Dredd> Brainstorm @Brainstorm:libera.chat: oh no R of 4 now? | 20:01 |
| LjL-Matrix | Brainstorm: test | 20:01 |
| LjL-Matrix | Brainstorm: test | 20:01 |
| Dredd | Ha ha, that's because there's two brainstorms I guess | 20:01 |
| LjL-Matrix | Doesn't do it with me though | 20:01 |
| Dredd | But it should be able to sort out out somehow | 20:02 |
| lastshell | 4th shot welcome to clownland https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-may-need-fourth-covid-vaccine-doses-sooner-than-expected.html | 20:02 |
| Dredd | Bad bridge! | 20:02 |
| Dredd | Loool, more dividends for me | 20:02 |
| lastshell | lmao | 20:02 |
| Dredd | If at first you don't succeed | 20:03 |
| Dredd | Vaccinate again and again with the thing that doesn't work | 20:03 |
| LjL-Matrix | LOL, who was it that said / told me that Pfizer was expected to come up with better news than yesterday's study? | 20:03 |
| Dredd | 🤷♂️🤦♂️ | 20:03 |
| Dredd | Dunno | 20:03 |
| lastshell | they said the next booster will be in form of a buttplug | 20:03 |
| lastshell | seriously is insane booster every how often ? | 20:04 |
| darsie | Why is that insane? Might as well be sane. | 20:05 |
| lastshell | virus trend to be less lethal | 20:05 |
| lastshell | so far omicron it seems to fit that narrative (anecdotal) | 20:06 |
| lastshell | I'm tired of the fear campaing | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +50952 cases (now 10.7 million), +161 deaths (now 146442) since 21 hours ago | 20:07 |
| LjL | lastshell, stop saying that please | 20:15 |
| LjL | viruses don't tend to be less lethal | 20:15 |
| LjL | i'm sick and tired of this self-perpetuating myth | 20:15 |
| LjL | virologists are telling us "no, that's not necessarily the case" | 20:15 |
| * lastshell going for a walk | 20:15 | |
| LjL | i'm not a virologist. you're not a virologist. | 20:15 |
| LjL | and there's great reasons to be afraid and if you're just tired of being afraid that doesn't wish the virus away | 20:15 |
| lastshell | sorry LjL just tired of covid | 20:15 |
| LjL | i understand, i'm sick and tired too | 20:16 |
| LjL | but wishful thinking doesn't actually make it go away :( | 20:16 |
| LjL | go for a walk, that's almost always a good thing to do (well, with enough distancing) | 20:16 |
| LjL | i would do it if it weren't already 8pm and it wasn't so cold and rainy | 20:16 |
| LjL | (excuses, i probably wouldn't do anyway, but sometimes i manage to drag myself into doing it) | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +69 cases (now 742507) since a day ago | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Denmark tightens up as Omicron spreads ‘extremely fast’: Situation 'extremely serious' as 'new and unpleasant' coronavirus strain speads, says top infectious diseases adviser. → https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-tightens-up-as-omicron-spreads-extremely-fast/ | 20:47 |
| LjL | new and unpleasant | 20:50 |
| LjL | but yeah i haven't heard much news from Denmark and yet they're crazy high in the tracker | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +19842 cases (now 3.1 million), +36 deaths (now 90038), +73911 tests (now 19.9 million) since a day ago | 21:09 |
| de-facto | !title https://investors.biontech.de/events/event-details/press-conference-provide-update-omicron-variant | 21:21 |
| de-facto | https://publicarea.admiralcloud.com/dl/tnPyoctM7qsFSChSjt5Wah | 21:21 |
| de-facto | !title https://investors.biontech.de/static-files/47b4131a-0545-4a0b-a353-49b3a1d01789 | 21:21 |
| de-facto | grrr | 21:21 |
| de-facto | .title https://investors.biontech.de/static-files/47b4131a-0545-4a0b-a353-49b3a1d01789 | 21:21 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.biontech.de: PowerPoint-Präsentation | 21:21 |
| de-facto | .title https://investors.biontech.de/events/event-details/press-conference-provide-update-omicron-variant | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.biontech.de: Press Conference to Provide an Update on Omicron Variant | BioNTech | 21:22 |
| Arsanerit | It would appear the measures in Austria are showing effect. | 21:23 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Pfizer and BioNTech Provide Update on Omicron Variant | Pfizer ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/QFP79SFU ) | 21:24 | |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes New Long-Acting Monoclonal Antibodies for Pre-exposure Prevention of COVID-19 in Certain Individuals → http://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-new-long-acting-monoclonal-antibodies-pre-exposure | 21:25 |
| LjL | do you know if there were superspreading events in Denmark that were worse than Norway, or whatever is causing them to show the *most* Omicron cases (yes, an artifact of sequencing, but still), more than the UK or SA currently? https://newsnodes.com/nu_tracker | 21:27 |
| Arsanerit | I don't know how much sequencing there is in different countries. | 21:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +61390 cases (now 8.2 million), +134 deaths (now 121017) since 23 hours ago — Cameroon: +401 cases (now 107549), +19 deaths (now 1823) since 2 days ago — Tanzania: +39 cases (now 26309), +4 deaths (now 734) since 2 days ago | 21:34 |
| de-facto | LjL, have a look at the presentation, they have very interesting data | 21:34 |
| de-facto | https://investors.biontech.de/static-files/47b4131a-0545-4a0b-a353-49b3a1d01789 | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): An Omicron overview, my 1st post @SubstackInc erictopol.substack.com/p/is-omicron-o…Aligns with latest review of risk assessment by @UKHSA, just published today assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468678580515192833 | 21:35 |
| de-facto | "Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage), while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers" | 21:36 |
| de-facto | "Data indicate that a third dose of BNT162b2 increases the neutralizing antibody titers by 25-fold compared to two doses against the Omicron variant; titers after the booster dose are comparable to titers observed after two doses against the wild-type virus, which are associated with high levels of protection" | 21:36 |
| de-facto | "Due to presence of B and T cell memory responses in vaccinated individuals, and as 80% of epitopes in the spike protein being recognized by CD8+ T cells are not affected by the mutations in the Omicron variant, two doses may still induce protection against severe disease" | 21:36 |
| de-facto | "These results are preliminary, the companies will continue to collect more laboratory data and evaluate real-world effectiveness data to assess protection against Omicron and inform the most effective path forward." | 21:37 |
| vladoski | what do you think about this: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v2.full.pdf | 21:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'll look. do you know what the "third study" is? multiple tweets today talk about "three studies" with concordant data, one is certainly yesterday's one from sigallab, one must be the pfizer release, and... is the third the one vladoski just linked? | 21:40 |
| de-facto | i am not sure, i did not had time yet to follow the latest developments | 21:42 |
| de-facto | they already start with an Omicron based variant (in case the studies would shot it may be needed), they said it would be ready by March 2022 | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Japanese scientists develop glowing masks to detect coronavirus → https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid2019/comments/rc0bss/japanese_scientists_develop_glowing_masks_to/ | 21:44 |
| de-facto | they do a new plasmid DNA template (containing the Omicron S-protein signature) and replicate that, everything else stays the same (in their production lines) | 21:50 |
| de-facto | LjL, maybe this one? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v1.full.pdf | 21:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, i think they "have" to say it will be ready by March because Moderna cut them off and said they'll be ready by February | 21:53 |
| LjL | next they'll be saying "it was ready yesterday" | 21:53 |
| LjL | but oh well at least if they actually compete about who's doing a better work with variants, then maybe something will come out of it | 21:54 |
| LjL | rather than "always the same old shot" | 21:54 |
| LjL | de-facto, thanks it's probably that one since it's from today and clearly on the subject | 21:54 |
| LjL | "Poor neutralization against | 21:55 |
| LjL | Delta and no efficacy against Omicron were observed using sera from heterologous ChAdOx1 and BNT162b2 | 21:55 |
| LjL | vaccinated individuals" | 21:55 |
| LjL | this doesn't sound good. whoops sorry newline | 21:55 |
| de-facto | hence the three studies would be the one from SA at https://krisp.org.za/manuscripts/MEDRXIV-2021-267417v1-Sigal.pdf ( form https://ceri.africa/publication/?token=365 ) then the BioNTech one https://investors.biontech.de/static-files/47b4131a-0545-4a0b-a353-49b3a1d01789 ( from https://investors.biontech.de/events/event-details/press-conference-provide-update-omicron-variant ) and finally the "Frankfurt study" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2 | 21:56 |
| de-facto | 021.08.12.21261952v2.full.pdf | 21:56 |
| lastshell | LjL that include people with 3 doses ? | 21:56 |
| de-facto | grrr | 21:56 |
| sdfgsdfg | I dont understand how the news went from "37 times less effective against omicron with 3 shots" with the african lab study to "3 doses very effective against Omicron!" | 21:56 |
| de-facto | "Frankfurt study" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v1.full.pdf | 21:56 |
| sdfgsdfg | in less than 10 hours ? | 21:56 |
| sdfgsdfg | whats going on | 21:56 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, have you seen more of that clownery aside from the BBC article citing WHO? | 21:57 |
| sdfgsdfg | no just woke up hahah | 21:57 |
| LjL | oh fair enough | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: SARS-CoV-2 inhibits induction of the MHC class I pathway by targeting the STAT1-IRF1-NLRC5 axis → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rc0lix/sarscov2_inhibits_induction_of_the_mhc_class_i/ | 22:03 |
| Arsanerit | effective for what? | 22:06 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, there are certainly nuances to be had, but that headline was just ridiculous. you can't go from "bad news that confirm our fears about Omicron, although from the details, it could have been worse" to "WHO says: vaccine still works against Omicron" | 22:11 |
| LjL | it may well still "work" for some definition of working, and some configurations of vaccine | 22:11 |
| LjL | but you can't take ← and say it's actually → | 22:11 |
| LjL | or, you can, but my face will be like ↓ on the _ when you do | 22:11 |
| sdfgsdfg | 40 times less effective even with a booster, but 25 times more effective with a booster | 22:12 |
| LjL | 40... 25... BINGO! | 22:13 |
| * LjL goes to cash in the money | 22:13 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Binding of phosphatidylserine‐positive microparticles by PBMCs classifies disease severity in COVID‐19 patients → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rc0phd/binding_of_phosphatidylserinepositive/ | 22:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468628494095581189 | 22:14 |
| de-facto | guys please look at the details | 22:14 |
| Arsanerit | sdfgsdfg: sounds like someone wants to sell boosters? | 22:14 |
| de-facto | you are comparing apples with pears | 22:15 |
| Arsanerit | I'm all for boosters, but if it's vaccine manufacturers telling us to booster it's less convincing than when it's health authorities. | 22:15 |
| LjL | i agree with de-facto, sometimes stuff is too complicated to engage your head in it and you just don't feel it, but in that case, don't jump to random conclusions | 22:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | but maybe eric is right, 37 less effective doesn't necessarily mean less immunity. The actual loss is much less than that, it could even mean better immunity. So please get your booster guys, don't even wait for omicron booster. | 22:16 |
| LjL | even saying "x times more/less effective" is misleading because it's not about efficacy/effectiveness when these studies are just looking at blood in a vial | 22:17 |
| LjL | 37 less *neutralizing*, if you want a shorthand | 22:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's another thing, we can definitely rely on statistics though | 22:17 |
| Arsanerit | I was going to wait until the crowds are gone; I'm a very low risk patient. | 22:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | it might be just better to wait a bit more | 22:17 |
| Arsanerit | It's important that everyone gets boostered, as long as the vaccination places are all busy it's good, and when they're less busy I'll go. | 22:18 |
| Arsanerit | (I prefer to avoid crowds) | 22:18 |
| LjL | reminder to self to add those things i haven't added to zotero (the three studies, and the slides to the press release) when i come back, but dinnertime now | 22:19 |
| Dredd | <lastshell> "so far omicron it seems to fit..." <- No it doesn't because it simply has not existed long enough to have good data. Anyone giving anecdotes on that is speculating irresponsibly and likely engaged in some wishful thinking | 22:28 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "but yeah i haven't heard much..." <- Must be all the minks 🤣. Poor minks ☹️. | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes New Long-Acting Monoclonal Antibodies for Pre-exposure Prevention of COVID-19 in Certain Individuals → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rc16ne/coronavirus_covid19_update_fda_authorizes_new/ | 22:32 |
| Dredd | <Brainstorm> "New from COVID on Twitter..." <- Wtf is substack, is it like medium? | 22:32 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "they already start with an..." <- Ready to give people or for trials? | 22:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cabo Verde: +10 cases (now 38470) since a day ago | 22:36 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "they do a new plasmid DNA..." <- Everything else in the vaccine is just packaging right? I'm not sure why vaccine development isn't already just "shove the new genetic material in the vector" for vaccines targeting a single genotype? | 22:36 |
| de-facto | well it depends on the approval too i guess | 22:37 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "Delta and no efficacy..." <- Was that two jabs of AZ then a pfizer (😛 de-facto) booster? | 22:37 |
| de-facto | everything vaccinations is based on the benefit to risk ratio, so for a given (small) risk from vaccination the benefit (preventing severe disease) would have to be proven by statistics, therefore it MAY require them to accumulate enough breakthrough cases for the new updated vaccine to demonstrate it got a more (or at least similar) benefit compared to the already approved (old) version of it | 22:39 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "Arsanerit, there are certainly..." <- Well you can when the WHO don't know what the fuck they're doing and are borderline incompetent. They have literally made Trump look good for de-funding them during his tenure. That's a crime in itself! | 22:40 |
| de-facto | Dredd, well observe now if pfizer or biontech is developing it :P | 22:40 |
| de-facto | my guess: biontech is going to develop it, pfizer is going to make the clinical trials | 22:40 |
| Dredd | <LjL> "even saying "x times more/less..." <- They also just look at one very narrow part of the immune system invitro as you say. It's an indicator, a useful model but not the full reality | 22:42 |
| Dredd | de-facto: I was kind of wondering if they're baked in estimated time for approval in that time frame | 22:44 |
| Dredd | I hope so | 22:44 |
| de-facto | probably we would need a multivalent vaccine, e.g. one that includes signatures for both Delta and Omicron offsprings assuming those two will be in wide enough spread that future mutants would be based on them | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +8590 cases (now 34.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Lebanon: +1994 cases (now 683326), +9 deaths (now 8804) since a day ago — Barbados: +127 cases (now 26433), +4 deaths (now 244) since 20 hours ago — Mauritania: +48 cases (now 39669), +1974 tests (now 519969) since a day ago | 23:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Booster protection assessed in 4.7 million people, age ≥16 nejm.org/doi/full/10.10…"Across the age groups studied, rates of confirmed Covid-19 and severe illness were substantially lower among participants who received a booster dose...than among those who did [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468703433079328773 | 23:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | wow ! | 23:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | "Finnish PM apologises for staying out clubbing despite Covid exposure" | 23:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | who would have though, finland has a hot prime minister who goes out and grinds on people | 23:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | even after getting sick. Just like my ex gf | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Multiple early studies find notable Omicron vaccine evasion: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Dec 08, 2021 Also, the WHO says global COVID cases have plateaued for 2 straight weeks. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/multiple-early-studies-find-notable-omicron-vaccine-evasion | 23:29 |
| LjL | Dredd, yesterday someone retweeted my tweet "against" the WHO and said she tries to restrain herself from saying bad stuff against the WHO but she thinks it. then guess what, while i was replying, she deleted the tweet. | 23:30 |
| LjL | (not sure if a virologist or similar, but i guess someone with *some* degree of following if she was so self-conscious about what she said in her tweets) | 23:30 |
| LjL | Dredd, about the minks - i was "okay" with them being all slaughtered, but it's kind of interesting how there was no issue killing 1 million mink - okay, they were poised to die and become bags or whatever anyway, but if nothing else, they destroyed that industry... and i was okay with that! as everyone else. but now we have a variant with many more mutations that looks much scarier and collectively we're like "oh well, it looks milder, also the vaccine still | 23:32 |
| LjL | works if you stretch it a lot" | 23:32 |
| LjL | Dredd, and yes it was almost certainly AZ followed by err BNT | 23:33 |
| LjL | other way around extremely unlikely | 23:33 |
| LjL | Dredd, de-facto: i find it completely unrealistic that they would get approval by March, of February, but hey they're Pfizer (this time for real, the ones with the power to get magical EUAs) | 23:34 |
| sdfgsdfg | mink ? whats a mink | 23:34 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, it's one "mink denmark" googling away | 23:36 |
| sdfgsdfg | exactly as I thought | 23:37 |
| sdfgsdfg | it's a type of ferret | 23:37 |
| sdfgsdfg | it did sound like a ferret or some groundhog or something | 23:37 |
| sdfgsdfg | who's killing the ferrets in denmark | 23:37 |
| LjL | nobody | 23:37 |
| LjL | they've already done it | 23:37 |
| LjL | months ago | 23:38 |
| LjL | there are no more minks there | 23:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | :o | 23:38 |
| LjL | that is *also* one googling away though... | 23:38 |
| LjL | my top three hits being | 23:38 |
| LjL | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/animal-news/here-s-why-denmark-culled-17-million-minks-now-plans-n1249610 | 23:38 |
| LjL | https://www.dw.com/en/covid-denmark-to-exhume-last-mink-corpses-culled-over-virus-fears/a-58232925 | 23:38 |
| LjL | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mink_industry_in_Denmark#COVID-19 | 23:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | its too late you already explained it lol | 23:38 |
| LjL | dang | 23:38 |
| LjL | anyway, yeah, there was a variant with dangerous-seeming mutation that was widely spreading in mink there, and there had already been some cases of back-transmission to humans (but weak ones only) | 23:39 |
| LjL | so they done killed them | 23:39 |
| sdfgsdfg | oh no, look at how cute they are lying dead on trays | 23:39 |
| sdfgsdfg | Blaming the ferret for a few accidental transmissions and killing them all.... instead of leaving them alone living in the wild doing their thing | 23:42 |
| sdfgsdfg | these little guys are almost extinct | 23:44 |
| LjL-Matrix | Well they only killed the ones already in farms, not wild ones (if any), I believe | 23:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Florian Krammer (@florian_krammer): 1) Excellent work from an Austrian team around @janinekimpel and Doro von Laer. Same results as @sigallab and @CiesekSandra for Omicron neutralization but more data from heterologous prime-boost vaccination and convalescent individuals. twitter.com/JanineKimpel/s… → https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1468715729121910796 | 23:58 |
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