| Brainstorm | Updates for Colombia: +2287 cases (now 5.1 million), +56 deaths (now 129163), +59043 tests (now 28.7 million) since 23 hours ago — French Guiana: +89 cases (now 46510), +1 deaths (now 333), +3736 tests (now 466594) since 3 days ago | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Starting to have a few Omicron cases in Lombardy apparently | 00:15 |
| LjL | Not many, they're just now starting to trace them, but you know, they become many quickly | 00:15 |
| lastshell | In Ontario 21% of the covid patients are omicron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcPifKbIaKc | 00:16 |
| LjL | Wow | 00:17 |
| LjL | %cases Ontario | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Ontario, Canada has had 638905 confirmed cases (4.8% of all people) and 10122 deaths (1.6% of cases; 1 in 1329 people) as of a day ago. +1144 cases, +5 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ontario&legacy=no | 00:17 |
| LjL | Any clue if the plan (assuming there's one) is still to decommission the Google/Apple exposure notification system at the end of 2021? It's kinda weird no one is talking about it | 00:19 |
| lastshell | most of the experts says they can not control omicron spreed with vaccines | 00:23 |
| LjL | Well you couldn't really control the *spread* of Delta either | 00:26 |
| LjL | unless by "control" you mean "manage to keep going even though there's still a lot of spread" like the UK did | 00:26 |
| LjL | I think we're all clear that the current vaccines don't stop infections. With Delta they could reduce infections, not sure if they will do that with Omicron too if everyone gets a booster, but it's clear it's not enough to suppress it | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Johnson&Johnson: Innovation: New Data from MajesTEC-1 Study Show Continued Deep and Durable Responses of Teclistamab (BCMAxCD3 Bispecific Antibody) in Treatment of [... want %more?] → https://www.jnj.com/new-data-from-majestec-1-study-show-continued-deep-and-durable-responses-of-teclistamab-bcmaxcd3-bispecific-antibody-in-treatment-of-heavily-pretreated-patients-with-multiple-myeloma | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for San Marino: +136 cases (now 6600) since 3 days ago — Paraguay: +73 cases (now 463828), +8 deaths (now 16513) since 23 hours ago | 00:32 |
| de-facto | without contacts there is no transmission, hence reducing contact rate will prevent any spread | 00:35 |
| de-facto | if Omicron is much more reproductive we would need much more contact reduction to compensate for those carriers that do spread to many susceptible | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: 9 Minnesota hospital systems plead for people to take COVID seriously → https://arstechnica.com/ | 00:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Mutations in RBD of SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant result stronger binding to human ACE2 protein → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rftrj1/mutations_in_rbd_of_sarscov2_omicron_variant/ | 01:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +30 deaths (now 11841) since 10 hours ago | 01:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): • Denmark expects Omicron to overtake Delta this week• 10k daily cases expected this week, 2.5x higher than 2020 peak• Concern that hospitals will be impacted, as Omicron can still cause severe disease even if less commonly• Boosters will be [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470544880686354435 | 01:16 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Norway bans serving alcohol in bid to curb Omicron surge → https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rftth4/norway_bans_serving_alcohol_in_bid_to_curb/ | 01:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Australia: +1984 cases (now 232746), +7 deaths (now 2113) since 22 hours ago — Rwanda: +79 cases (now 100713), +14184 tests (now 3.7 million) since a day ago | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron’s Spread Across Hotel Hall Highlights Transmission Worry → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rfub7v/omicrons_spread_across_hotel_hall_highlights/ | 01:35 |
| LjL | "Closed-circuit television camera footage showed neither person left their room nor had any contact, leaving airborne transmission when respective doors were opened for food collection or Covid testing the most probable mode of spread" | 01:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.covid19genomics.dk/statistics <-- no Omicron yet as its 2 weeks behind, something to watch for updates | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.covid19genomics.dk: Danish Covid-19 Genome Consortium | 01:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/status-of-the-epidemic/covid-19-updates-statistics-and-charts <-- also this of course | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.sst.dk: COVID-19 surveillance - Danish Health Authority | 01:42 |
| de-facto | .title https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.00533 | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From arxiv.org: [2110.00533] Relative Contagiousness of Emerging Virus Variants: An Analysis of SARS-CoV-2 Alpha and Delta Variants | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): With so much new data, I've just posted an updated summary for where we stand with Omicron. erictopol.substack.com/p/omicron-is-g… @SubstackInc It's called "Ground Truths". It's free to subscribe. It's a 1-month experiment that I'm trying to get deeper into [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470552994710126596 | 01:44 |
| de-facto | .title https://erictopol.substack.com/p/omicron-is-getting-more-defined?justPublished=true | 01:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From erictopol.substack.com: Omicron is getting more defined - by Eric Topol | 01:49 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.12.472252v1 | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Improved neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant after Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine boosting | bioRxiv | 01:54 |
| LjL | i wrote a *controvurshal* (at least i assume) post: https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rfub7v/omicrons_spread_across_hotel_hall_highlights/hog8rli/ | 01:55 |
| LjL | de-facto, he's on substack? interesting, i saw that site initially only from links of people who were clearly conspiracy theorist and nutters | 01:55 |
| de-facto | i think he just joined as he announced that on twitter | 01:58 |
| LjL | oh | 01:59 |
| LjL | well maybe there is being some effort to "rebalance" the content of that side because maybe it's becoming too important? | 01:59 |
| LjL | i went through a couple of links to it from a subreddit that was *clearly* anti-vax and stuff | 01:59 |
| de-facto | "We utilized an authentic virus, multicycle neutralisation assay to demonstrate that sera collected 1, 3, and 6 months post-two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 has a limited ability to neutralise SARS-CoV-2. However, four weeks after a third dose, neutralizing antibody titres are boosted." | 01:59 |
| LjL | i quickly got the impression those substacks only ever linked to each other as "sources" | 01:59 |
| de-facto | "Despite this increase, neutralising antibody titres are reduced 4-fold for Omicron compared to lineage A.2.2 SARS-CoV-2." | 01:59 |
| de-facto | interesting so booster needs some time to mature? | 02:00 |
| LjL | what are you quoting from? | 02:00 |
| de-facto | the biorxiv link | 02:02 |
| de-facto | "there was a 4-fold reduction in median nAbT against Omicron in contrast to the wild-type and 1.5-fold decrease of nAbT against Delta VOC following the third dose." | 02:02 |
| de-facto | just half an hour old info :P | 02:03 |
| LjL | well it's compatible with what i'd heard though? | 02:03 |
| LjL | like 75% estimated efficacy (from neutralization, not real-world data) against Omicron with a booster | 02:03 |
| LjL | down to >90% against Delta | 02:03 |
| LjL | that's compatible with a 4-fold reduction in how much of the thing the antibodies do, isn't it? | 02:04 |
| LjL | not sure if they simply looked at 4 weeks after, or they actually had to wait 4 weeks for a peak | 02:04 |
| LjL | 4 weeks seems long to me, i remember something stating 1 week after the booster you already had antibodies peaking, faster than the first shots (understandably so) | 02:04 |
| de-facto | yeah but maybe they need some time to mature, e.g. hypermutate? | 02:05 |
| antepost[m] | just keep in mind biorxiv is not scientific .... its just prerelease | 02:05 |
| de-facto | yes its a very early preprint, not peer reviewed | 02:06 |
| de-facto | but its scientific, just not finalized, work in progress | 02:06 |
| de-facto | i think we really need to understand if T-cell induced immunity will hold against Omicron | 02:07 |
| de-facto | at least against severe progressions | 02:07 |
| LjL | "not scientific"? | 02:10 |
| LjL | lack of peer review doesn't make science not scientific | 02:10 |
| LjL | and peer review is often not very scientific itself | 02:10 |
| LjL | it's two random folks with a science degree, going over a paper, unpaid | 02:10 |
| de-facto | also another interesting read by Eric Topol | 02:18 |
| de-facto | .title https://erictopol.substack.com/p/is-omicron-ominous | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From erictopol.substack.com: Is Omicron Ominous? - by Eric Topol - Ground Truths | 02:18 |
| de-facto | .title https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1040076/Technical_Briefing_31.pdf | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From assets.publishing.service.gov.uk: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation (UKHSA) | 02:31 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-of-concern-variant-risk-assessments | 02:32 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.gov.uk: Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern: variant risk assessments - GOV.UK | 02:32 |
| LjL | should we call it Omicrous? | 02:34 |
| de-facto | their risk assessment shows too many red lights for my taste | 02:35 |
| LjL | de-facto, i somehow suspect that the UK government's escalation of measures is partly due to that paper you linked the other day, i forget which university, but anyway with the modelling for Omicron in the UK | 02:36 |
| de-facto | yes of course otherwise having them model the scenario would not make much sense if the results were irrelevant | 02:38 |
| de-facto | .title https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/omicron-england.html <-- this here from https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2021/modelling-potential-impact-omicron-england ? | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From cmmid.github.io: Modelling the potential consequences of the Omicron SARS-CoV-2 variant in England | CMMID Repository | 02:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-98-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-december-2021/sage-98-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-december-2021 <-- or that? | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.gov.uk: SAGE 98 minutes: Coronavirus (COVID-19) response, 7 December 2021 - GOV.UK | 02:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-09122021-ke43 <-- Report about Omicron in Denmark from last week (in Danish) | 02:42 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From files.ssi.dk: Rapport om omikronvarianten | 02:42 |
| LjL | de-facto, yes that | 02:43 |
| de-facto | .title https://covid19.ssi.dk/virusvarianter | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covid19.ssi.dk: Virusvarianter | 02:45 |
| de-facto | .title https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-13122021-i30w from https://covid19.ssi.dk/virusvarianter/omikron | 02:55 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From files.ssi.dk: Rapport om omikronvarianten | 02:55 |
| de-facto | report about Omicron in Denmark from today | 02:55 |
| LjL | <de-facto> yes of course otherwise having them model the scenario would not make much sense if the results were irrelevant ← if only governments *never* ignored good science... but sometimes they do | 03:02 |
| LjL | sometimes one only does science in the *hope* it will be paid attention to | 03:02 |
| de-facto | Denmark 09-12-2021: 6,552 SARS-CoV-2 with 666 Omicron being 10.2 % | 03:15 |
| de-facto | i just took their absolute number of cases in Denmark and made a nonlinear fit | 03:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/aQgNY4H https://i.imgur.com/HRBe7Mb.png Omicron(t) = Omicron(t0) * Rt ^(t/4) = 4.5 * 3.4^(t/4) src: https://covid19.ssi.dk/virusvarianter/omikron with https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-13122021-i30w | 03:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Denmark: OMICRON (B.1.1.529) cases - Album on Imgur | 03:15 |
| antepost[m] | https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/03/14/preprints-citations-non-peer-reviewed-material-included-article-references/ | 03:16 |
| de-facto | grrr made a typo | 03:16 |
| de-facto | ok correction | 03:20 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/AMqZV7j https://i.imgur.com/LhtD3Gs.png "COVID Denmark: OMICRON (B.1.1.529) cases" Omicron(t) = Omicron(t0) * Rt ^(t/4) = 4.5 * 3.4^(t/4) src: https://covid19.ssi.dk/virusvarianter/omikron with https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-13122021-i30w | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Denmark: OMICRON (B.1.1.529) cases - Album on Imgur | 03:20 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Improved neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant after Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine boosting ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/BV6I4I3T ) | 03:20 | |
| LjL | antepost[m], i'm not sure if you realize that there's like a COVID study published every minute (eyeballing, could be more or could be less, but i do remember reading about a mindboggling number being published), and preprints that we discussed here in 2020 are sometimes only passing peer-review *now*... not because they were bad studies, but because there's a huge backlog to peer review and publish papers | 03:22 |
| LjL | you can understand that information about some 2020 variant may not even be very relevant anymore today | 03:23 |
| LjL | so yes, preprints are unavoidable when "doing COVID science" | 03:23 |
| LjL | the article you posted is from 2018. you may have noticed that 2021 is markedly different from 2018. | 03:23 |
| LjL | and even then, it says "The tide seems to be flowing toward more inclusion [of preprints] in reference lists." | 03:24 |
| de-facto | so if that would continue like that in Denmark Omicron(t) = Omicron(t0) * Rt ^(t/4) = 4.5 * 3.4^(t/4) hence Rt(4d) ~ 3.4 we would have *doubled* the number of cases each T2 = 4d Ln(2) / Ln(3,4) ~ 2.3 days | 03:24 |
| de-facto | thats ... a bit crazy | 03:24 |
| antepost[m] | what has the date to do with the principle of science ?? ... even if the site is vrom 1722 it does not change the fact that preprints can be a personal opinion and even if they look scientific in theyr document structure they are not valid science in the first place | 03:26 |
| LjL | antepost[m], it has everything to do with it, since peer review wasn't even *common* until a few decades ago | 03:26 |
| LjL | the site couldn't have been from 1722 because peer review didn't "exist" | 03:27 |
| LjL | it's not a "principle of science", it's a current principle of the scientific publishing industry | 03:27 |
| LjL | claiming otherwise is ludicruous | 03:27 |
| antepost[m] | so peer review exists since before the bat virus from wuhan | 03:27 |
| LjL | yes, it does | 03:29 |
| LjL | i'm glad the goalpost has moved from "1722" to "sometime before the virus" | 03:29 |
| LjL | anyway here is what a medical doctor had to go through for a peer review process https://youtu.be/WHC1bY_qdQ0?t=926 | 03:29 |
| LjL | and here are some of his opinion on the medical publishing industry in general https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo&t=22s | 03:30 |
| LjL | and here are a large amount of study papers, most of which preprints https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/library | 03:30 |
| LjL | i think you'll have to deal with it | 03:30 |
| LjL | of course that doesn't mean every preprint is not bollocks. but not every peer-reviewed paper is not bollocks, either | 03:31 |
| antepost[m] | LjL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarly_peer_review | 03:31 |
| antepost[m] | > The first record of an editorial pre-publication peer-review is from 1665 by Henry Oldenburg, the founding editor of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society at the Royal Society of London.[12][13][14] | 03:31 |
| antepost[m] | > The first peer-reviewed publication might have been the Medical Essays and Observations published by the Royal Society of Edinburgh in 1731. The present-day peer-review system evolved from this 18th-century process,[15] began to involve external reviewers in the mid-19th-century,[16] and did not become commonplace until the mid-20th-century.[17] | 03:31 |
| antepost[m] | ok it was 10 years later .. so what | 03:31 |
| LjL | here is a publication that tries to collect all the (often peer-reviewed) papers that had to be retracted, either because of errors or because of conflicts of interest or misrepresentations https://retractionwatch.com/ | 03:31 |
| LjL | you must have skimmed over the "did not become commonplace until the mid-20th-century.[17]" | 03:32 |
| LjL | all the things that were published and NOT peer reviewed between 1665 and the "mid 20th century" are STILL SCIENCE | 03:32 |
| LjL | that includes a bunch of things published by Einstein, for example | 03:32 |
| LjL | just stop claiming something needs to be peer-reviewed "to be science", because that's not true. period. | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sint Maarten: +21 cases (now 4653) since a day ago — Bermuda: +20 cases (now 5784), +6762 tests (now 666941) since 3 days ago — Antigua and Barb.: +13 cases (now 4175) since a day ago | 03:33 |
| antepost[m] | it looks like science and it can be science as any personal view can be science ... how ever its not valid to use in science | 03:34 |
| LjL | no. you're wrong. | 03:35 |
| LjL | even the article you cited claims you're wrong. | 03:35 |
| LjL | so just stop. | 03:35 |
| LjL | this channel is not for advocating against valid science being science. | 03:36 |
| LjL | preprints don't just "look like science" | 03:36 |
| LjL | that is a depiction that makes them look like they're faking it | 03:36 |
| LjL | which is absolutely not the wrong track | 03:36 |
| LjL | the right* track | 03:36 |
| antepost[m] | even science journals have theyr rules and not in favour of personal opinions | 03:37 |
| LjL | and even this channel has its rule and not in favor of *your* personal opinion that you can't even substantiate with the articles you post (which, in fact, point in the opposite direction) | 03:37 |
| LjL | drop it. | 03:37 |
| LjL | if you have specific criticism on a preprints' specific contents, be our guest. but don't just dump *all* preprints into a "not science" bin, not here. | 03:38 |
| antepost[m] | LjL: there is no peer review ... you dont know if they fake it or not ... if one uses his own postulate as an evidence for his other postulate it can be written scientific but its not valid science | 03:38 |
| LjL-Matrix | .¡𝖠𝗇𝗍𝖾𝗉𝗈𝗌𝗍¡.: I recommend you read the links posted during this conversation, both mine *and yours*, and then if your ideas are clearer on the matter, send me a DM. For now you're muted from the room. I think I've been clear about asking you to drop it. | 03:39 |
| LjL | de-facto, i just tried the German CovPass app... it took a while to scan my QR, maybe not enough light, and the QR is very dense, but eventually it got it, but the QR *it* displays is actually a much simpler QR | 03:47 |
| LjL | do you know if they have a "simplified" version of the certificate now in Germany? | 03:48 |
| LjL | i know they do in Switzerland, but the app notes it's *only valid in Switzerland* | 03:48 |
| LjL | so it still also shows the original, big certificate | 03:48 |
| LjL | my original certificate is "4x4" of those alignment markers that QR codes hae | 03:49 |
| LjL | but the CovPass QR is only 3x3 | 03:49 |
| de-facto | i think the redundancy in QR codes is choose-able | 03:50 |
| de-facto | the ones they gave me seems to be 2x2 the app makes 3x3 out of it | 03:53 |
| LjL | yet the CovPass app FAQ themselves show a printout that's identical to the printout i have, with a 4x4 code... | 03:53 |
| LjL | uhm | 03:53 |
| de-facto | so maybe the italian printout adds even more redundancy e.g. 4x4? | 03:53 |
| LjL | i was only given 2x2 certificates that are local certificates and are *not* EU passes | 03:53 |
| LjL | de-facto: look, this is the example printout certificate in the German FAQ | 03:54 |
| LjL | https://www.digitaler-impfnachweis-app.de/assets/img/eu_covid_19_certificate_056e16d084.png | 03:54 |
| LjL | It's 4x4 and looks the same as my physical green pass | 03:54 |
| LjL | anyway, the Swiss app does recognize my "simplified" German certificate | 03:55 |
| LjL | not sure about the Italian app since it's not in F-Droid :P | 03:55 |
| de-facto | yeah mine looks different | 03:55 |
| de-facto | the encoded info should be the same, but QR adds redundancy afaik | 03:56 |
| de-facto | like error correction codes or such | 03:56 |
| LjL | i don't know, the 4x4 one is very hard to scan. it may have more error correction but it also makes it much harder to scan it correctly ;( | 03:57 |
| LjL | i guess i'm wondering if the EU certificate system is slowly trying to move to a 3x3 setup | 03:58 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Error_correction | 03:58 |
| LjL | the Swiss app doesn't let me generate what they call a "Certificate Light". maybe it sees it's not a Swiss citizen | 03:58 |
| LjL | that seems to be saying that the error correction amount is fixed to 15 symbols at most, and that's within one "box" | 03:59 |
| de-facto | "QR codes use Reed–Solomon error correction" with different levels of redundancy | 03:59 |
| LjL | hmm | 03:59 |
| de-facto | if you want to debug it, scan both and compare the string | 04:00 |
| de-facto | i bet its the same for the small and the big QR code | 04:00 |
| LjL | i guess i may half-heartedly install the Italian verification app to see if it sees my "German" code as valid | 04:00 |
| LjL | *if* it works, it should be better than the 4x4 code just becaue 4x4 is *so* dense | 04:00 |
| de-facto | then print it out and draw on each, until they would not scan correctly anymore | 04:01 |
| de-facto | i bet the denser one with more error correction would survive that better, well until there is a resolution limit or such | 04:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Boris Johnson: down but not out: British politics' comeback kid faces a rebellion over COVID rules, a bruising by-election, and muttering about a leadership challenge. → https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-christmas-party-investigation-uk-covid/ | 04:02 |
| LjL | hmm to be fair my new phone even reads the *tiiiiiny* 4x4 certificate that the Swiss app shows before you actually click on it and make it larger. so i guess only printed certificates are so hard to read :P | 04:03 |
| LjL | i guess an AMOLED screen has a lot more contrast than a sheet of paper under bad lighting... | 04:03 |
| LjL | but yeah, the Italian verification app does recognize the German certificate | 04:03 |
| de-facto | yeah it should as they all use the EU system, dont they? | 04:04 |
| LjL | yes, but i had never seen a smaller than 4x4 certificate before, except this "swiss certificate light" thing - and that one said it would *not* work out of Switzerland | 04:05 |
| de-facto | the cost for more redundancy is having a denser QR and that is less well scanable from further distance | 04:06 |
| LjL | de-facto, not just from further distance, i tried from pretty close... | 04:08 |
| LjL | and yes i think 4x4 is just too large | 04:09 |
| LjL | the redundancy advantage is completely swamped by how hard it is to scan | 04:09 |
| LjL | these checks need to be done quickly | 04:09 |
| LjL | by the way, it's also completely preposterous that the Immuni app (one of the two italian apps that let you display a green pass, the other being Io, which needs your e-ID login to show it) doesn't just let me scan a printed QR and add it to my "wallet"... the German and Swiss apps easily do that | 04:10 |
| LjL | instead it asks me for my "authcode" (which is sent via SMS, hopefully i never lose that SMS...), my healthcare card number... it's quite a lot more complicated than just scanning a QR code :\ | 04:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for British Virgin Islands: +26 cases (now 2842), +1 deaths (now 39) since 7 days ago | 04:10 |
| de-facto | yeah there definitely is an optimum point for each scenario | 04:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Efficacy and Safety of COVID-19 Convalescent Plasma in Hospitalized Patients → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rfxm8o/efficacy_and_safety_of_covid19_convalescent/ | 04:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +1891 cases (now 554999), +13 deaths (now 19330) since a day ago | 04:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): In this column, I present a conceptual model to help explain the apparent reduced severity of Omicron-induced illness to date, emphasizing the T cell layer of defense pic.twitter.com/YWaG8RrgwU → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470600831435038720 | 04:50 |
| minthos | this is pretty cool, I'm sure many of you have seen the corsi-rosenthal box already https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2YELPNsImk | 04:52 |
| de-facto | aaaw :) | 04:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +29421 cases (now 2.0 million), +127 deaths (now 27631), +225565 tests (now 26.0 million) since 2 days ago | 05:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +35423 cases (now 6.6 million) since 23 hours ago — India: +5784 cases (now 34.7 million), +252 deaths (now 475888) since 23 hours ago | 05:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Retraction Watch: Paper claiming a lack of evidence COVID-19 lockdowns work is retracted: This is an evolving story, and we will update as we learn more. A paper in Springer Nature’s Scientific Reports claiming there was essentially no evidence that [... want %more?] → https://retractionwatch.com/2021/12/13/paper-claiming-a-lack-of-evidence-covid-19-lockdowns-work-is-retracted/ | 06:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Guatemalan president stands with ally Taiwan, derides Chinese vaccines | Taiwan News | 2021-06-03 12:02:00 → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rfzqrl/guatemalan_president_stands_with_ally_taiwan/ | 06:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Illinois, United States: +19515 cases (now 1.9 million), +105 deaths (now 29339) since 2 days ago — New York, United States: +13503 cases (now 2.9 million), +54 deaths (now 58222) since a day ago — Massachusetts, United States: +11672 cases (now 981261), +29 deaths (now 19663) since 3 days ago [... want %more?] | 06:40 |
| mrdata | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/13/pennsylvania-man-treated-covid-ivermectin-dies/6498445001/ | 07:04 |
| mrdata | "Man whose wife won a lawsuit to treat his COVID-19 with ivermectin has died" | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The rapidity with which Omicron is taking hold in Europe "In Norway, health authorities warned that if no countermeasures were taken Omicron could infect up to 300,000 people a day compared with the previous peak of about 1,000 cases."ft.com/content/3c27c1… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470634875799568385 | 07:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +54578 cases (now 10.9 million) since 14 hours ago — Netherlands: +48 cases (now 2.9 million) since 13 hours ago | 07:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | daaaamn look at UK | 07:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): British Studies Show Vaccines Weaken Against Omicron, But Boosters Help → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 07:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Zostavax, shingles (herpes zoster) vaccine (live), Herpes Zoster;Immunization, Date of authorisation: 19/05/2006, Revision: 31, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/zostavax | 08:45 |
| Dredd | <sdfgsdfg> "daaaamn look at UK..." <- What's up with it? | 08:53 |
| Dredd | <mrdata> "https://www.usatoday.com/story/..." <- The problem with ivermectin is you would need impossibly high doses (that would be toxic to us) to get the therapeutic effect | 08:54 |
| minthos | I wish those alternative cure people would promote fun drugs like LSD instead | 08:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 14, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rg2l3r/daily_discussion_thread_december_14_2021/ | 09:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | Dredd it looks like omicron cases are starting to show up in the wave | 09:19 |
| Dredd | Can you link me to where you can see it? | 09:19 |
| sdfgsdfg | maybe after lunch | 09:20 |
| Dredd | k | 09:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tripura, India: +20 cases (now 84934) since a day ago — Arunachal Pradesh, India: +7 cases (now 55313) since a day ago — Germany: +35424 cases (now 6.6 million) since 16 hours ago | 09:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China detects first case of Omicron coronavirus variant on the mainland → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rg2qtm/china_detects_first_case_of_omicron_coronavirus/ | 09:42 |
| ZdrytchX | .cases australia | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Australia has had 232766 confirmed cases (0.9% of all people) and 2113 deaths (0.9% of cases; 1 in 12143 people) as of 2 hours ago. 50.4 million tests were done (0.5% positive). 20.2 million were vaccinated (78.8%). +20 cases since 5 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia&legacy=no | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Australia, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 09:52 |
| ZdrytchX | .cases victoria | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Victoria, Australia has had 138409 confirmed cases (2.1% of all people) and 1424 deaths (1.0% of cases; 1 in 4631 people) as of 3 hours ago. +1182 cases, +6 deaths since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Victoria&legacy=no | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Victoria, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 09:54 |
| Guest47 | Hi folks, what do you make of this https://ibb.co/zFL9xz3 | 09:57 |
| Guest47 | Can you see a line on the T side? | 09:57 |
| Guest47 | I'll try to take a better pic, my phone is rubbish | 09:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): High quality pre-print:B.1.1.529 escapes majority of SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies of diverse epitopes“data suggest Omicron could cause significant humoral immune evasion while NAbs targeting the sarbecovirus conserved region remain most [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470678092108685314 | 10:01 |
| Guest47 | https://ibb.co/qdvsjzb this is a bit better | 10:02 |
| Guest47 | dtal ^^^ | 10:02 |
| xx | Guest47: you're here often enough, why don't you get a registered nickname, or use a real irc client? Not forcing you, just curious. | 10:03 |
| Guest47 | anonymity, privacy | 10:04 |
| xx | Guest47: you realize that what you're doing *now* is revealing your home IP to everyone? | 10:04 |
| Guest47 | not a problem, thousands are using this IP | 10:05 |
| xx | still weakens the privacy argument | 10:06 |
| xx | anyway, thanks for answering | 10:06 |
| Guest47 | so what do you make of that shadow? | 10:06 |
| xx | does anyone have a study or report that would deal with the chinese numbers - an analysis whether the reports over the whole last year can be trusted? | 10:06 |
| xx | because the chinese numbers just feel weird, but I don't want to jump straight on the bandwagon that "china is lying about everything" | 10:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: James Ward (@JamesWard73): Another week, another long thread on omicron. This time, I’m still concerned, but perhaps a bit less worried than I was – mainly because I’m starting to be more confident that our experience of omicron will be significantly milder than earlier covid [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1470680953643319305 | 10:21 |
| minthos | Guest47: looks clear to me | 10:28 |
| Guest47 | minthos clear as in positive? | 10:29 |
| minthos | clear as in negative | 10:29 |
| Guest47 | ah | 10:30 |
| minthos | the control is red the test is white | 10:30 |
| Guest47 | I've checked it at exactly 30m | 10:30 |
| Guest47 | well there's like a grey shadow over the T line | 10:30 |
| Guest47 | yesterday it was a very faint pink line | 10:31 |
| Guest47 | and two days ago it was a dark red line | 10:31 |
| minthos | I'm no expert but I guess that means your viral load is very low and you're not infectious anymore | 10:32 |
| Guest47 | I was gonna break self isolation today but ill wait another 24 hours | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +618 cases (now 229214), +3 deaths (now 1868), +6512 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago | 10:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Major South African study concludes omicron variant more resistant to vaccines but causes less severe version of covid → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rg3wnm/major_south_african_study_concludes_omicron/ | 10:50 |
| sdfgsdfg | I don't understand how omicron "replaces" delta instead of adding to existing delta cases. Eric Topol's chart shows it's 100% replaced https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470634875799568385?s=20 | 10:55 |
| sdfgsdfg | whoa, didn't even notice the potential number of 300,000 daily in Norway - I was only after the delta-omi displacement of SA | 10:57 |
| sdfgsdfg | .title | 10:57 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "The rapidity with which Omicron is taking hold in Europe "In Norway, health authorities warned that if no countermeasures were taken Omicron could infect up to 300,000 people [...] | 10:57 |
| xx | we'd probably be in a good place if *everyone* got infected with omicron and gained natural immunity for a couple months out of it | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Omicron advance predicted to be very fast.ft.com/content/3c27c1… pic.twitter.com/yI60whvmuY → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1470693312642301955 | 10:59 |
| minthos | pure speculation here: maybe the body's response to omicron is to produce a bunch of T-cells that also take out other variants so only omicron remains in the body, combined with omicron cases growing so rapidly that other cases become a vanishingly small proportion of total cases even if the number of other cases doesn't decrease faster than before | 11:00 |
| minthos | and people get infected with omicron and self-isolate/build immunity before they get the chance to catch other variants | 11:01 |
| minthos | let's say you're in a room with 1 omicron and 1 delta person - you get both in your nose but the delta load isn't big enough to cause infection but the omicron load is, so you get omicron and not delta | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: In emergenza fino al 31 marzo: il governo vara la proroga (e complica Draghi al Colle) → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA/comments/rg478z/in_emergenza_fino_al_31_marzo_il_governo_vara_la/ | 11:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Gatekeepers, wizards, and a mutual appreciation of each other’s kingdoms: Collaborative working is crucial to providing joined up, high quality care, yet medicine continues to be a divided profession of gatekeepers (GPs) and wizards (specialists).12 The covid-19 pandemic... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3005.short | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): BREAKING ⬇️ Thread with important early data on vaccine efficacy re Omicron twitter.com/miamalan/statu… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470706945246253060 | 11:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | could it be that the real pandemic is just beginning and 2022 is going to be an entire fkfest | 12:31 |
| minthos | looks that way | 12:31 |
| minthos | 2020-2021 was just a rehearsal | 12:32 |
| minthos | (we failed) | 12:32 |
| minthos | I'm seriously considering crafting myself a papr before everyone panics | 12:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Latvia: +930 cases (now 263145), +14 deaths (now 4390), +11911 tests (now 5.5 million) since a day ago — France: +11465 cases (now 8.4 million), +223 deaths (now 121647) since 15 hours ago | 12:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zambia: +471 cases (now 211705), +1 deaths (now 3671), +6706 tests (now 2.8 million) since a day ago | 13:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | .cases nsw | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: New Brunswick, Canada has had 9704 confirmed cases (1.3% of all people) and 142 deaths (1.5% of cases; 1 in 5261 people) as of 6 hours ago. +100 cases, +2 deaths since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Brunswick&legacy=no | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about New Brunswick, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 13:13 |
| sdfgsdfg | .cases new south wales | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: New South Wales, Australia has had 87248 confirmed cases (1.1% of all people) and 640 deaths (0.7% of cases; 1 in 12640 people) as of 6 hours ago. 141777 tests were done (61.5% positive). +795 cases, +1 deaths since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20South%20Wales&legacy=no | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about New South Wales, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Norway bans serving of alcohol as it tries to slow Omicron outbreak: 'For many this will feel like a lockdown, if not of society then of their lives and of their livelihoods,' says prime minister. → https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-prohibit-alcohol-serving-halt-omicron-outbreak/ | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +229 cases (now 824764), +2 deaths (now 11559), +9392 tests (now 4.7 million) since a day ago | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 14DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rg6nk8/global_covid_cases_for_14dec21/ | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Good news regarding Pfizers anti-COVID-19 drug.Important to have at least a few more against different enzymes/mechanisms of action, and ideally use them together.statnews.com/2021/12/14/pfi… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1470737545201958924 | 13:53 |
| minthos | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470721480304463872 | 14:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): Another magnificent Omicron thread from James, evaluating the evidence to date and setting out a range of plausible scenarios for what happens next twitter.com/JamesWard73/st… → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1470738638862442499 | 14:02 |
| minthos | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470735787742294018 | 14:03 |
| minthos | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470739460916539395 | 14:03 |
| minthos | Eric Topol | 14:03 |
| minthos | @EricTopol | 14:03 |
| minthos | · | 14:03 |
| minthos | 21m | 14:03 |
| minthos | We now have a safe and highly effective anti-Covid pill strategy (combination of nirmatrelvir (Paxlovid) and low dose ritnoavir to add to our defense vs Omicron | 14:03 |
| minthos | sorry about the exceesive newlines | 14:04 |
| minthos | it seems it doesn't do much good for vaccinated people though | 14:10 |
| Justin[m]1 | Where does it say it doesn't offer benefits to vaccinated people? | 14:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Graph of Pfizer 3rd shot (booster) vs Omicron symptomatic infection, restoring to 75% protection, significantly less compared to its effect vs Delta (95%) with 95% CI, @UKHSA data, vs unvaccinatedft.com/content/8a6a0e…by @hannahkuchler @donatopmancini [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470744717398720513 | 14:22 |
| minthos | oh, hmm.. maybe I invented that myself. I can't seem to find it now. | 14:24 |
| minthos | Pfizer also reported results from a second study in adults with Covid at normal risk of developing severe disease, a group that included vaccinated people. That study failed to meet its main goal, of increasing the sustained alleviation of self-reported symptoms, at an interim analysis; the study is continuing. But Pfizer said that there was a decrease in hospitalization in that group, too, although | 14:26 |
| minthos | numbers were small. | 14:26 |
| minthos | from here https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/14/pfizers-covid-pill-remains-89-effective-in-final-analysis-company-says/ | 14:27 |
| minthos | The study of patients who were at lower risk, called EPIC-SR, showed that 2 of 333 patients who received a five-day course of Paxlovid were hospitalized compared to 8 of 329 who received placebo. The results were similar in a second analysis, Pfizer said, but barely missed statistical significance. Rates of adverse events were similar between the drug and placebo. | 14:27 |
| minthos | so maybe it's effective but the results aren't conclusive yet on that | 14:28 |
| minthos | sorry for contributing to misinformation :/ | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saudi Arabia: +65 cases (now 550369), +1 deaths (now 8856), +50068 tests (now 32.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +8136 cases (now 1.1 million), +51 deaths (now 11862), +48268 tests (now 13.2 million) since 23 hours ago | 14:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Remember, this is before Omicron. With Omicron, ventilation and other measures to control airborne spread will be crucial. The variant has mutations that makes it much easier for the virus attach to our cells & viral load is greatly [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470749554408661002 | 14:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Our covid times by @Ramireztoons pic.twitter.com/sXAM8N93kd → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470750553021972482 | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Family of woman lose appeal against end-of-life ruling: Doctors have previously described the woman as the "most complicated" Covid patient in the world. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59641995 | 15:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sweden: +9472 cases (now 1.2 million) since 3 days ago — UAE: +110 cases (now 743004), +321306 tests (now 105.3 million) since a day ago | 15:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: From Armani to Zegna, 22 Milan brands plan live runway shows → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/fashion/from-armani-to-zegna-22-milan-brands-plan-live-runway-shows-7671981/ | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): To explain:Doubling of cases every 2 days means the estimated 90-300.000 after 3 weeks, in yet another 8 days - a month from now - will be between (90-180-360-720-)1.440.000 and(300-600-1200-2400)-4.800.000 new cases per day w/o measures.Only strict [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470758391576502274 | 15:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health: CDC data indicate Omicron is starting to eat into Delta’s U.S. dominance → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/14/cdc-data-indicate-omicron-is-starting-to-eat-into-deltas-u-s-dominance/ | 15:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Pfizer Covid pill retains 89% efficacy in full study; Senate committee holds hearing on FDA commissioner → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2021/12/14/covid19-omicron-pfizer-fda-califf-medicaid/ | 15:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kenya: +331 cases (now 256815), +2872 tests (now 2.9 million) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +295 cases (now 1.6 million), +3 deaths (now 28034), +22870 tests (now 11.2 million) since a day ago | 15:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Just published @NatureMedicine The most comprehensive assessment of the rare events of myocarditis, pericarditis, arrhythmias after COVID and AZ, mRNA vaccinesnature.com/articles/s4159… pic.twitter.com/eC5JOx0CmG → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470767378745204739 | 15:50 |
| lastshell | hey guys I hear people get sick aftet the booster what does that means I didn't get any reaction just sore arm ? | 15:51 |
| minthos | it's random, don't worry | 15:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Absolute nonsense @sajidjavid! Not only South Africa identified the #omicron and alerted the @WHO and the world. But we also helped the U.K to identify the the Alpha variant, see Sir @JeremyFarrar spike book. U.K. should be rewarding SA for scientific quality [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1470768240125169666 | 16:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Paper claiming a lack of evidence COVID-19 lockdowns work is retracted → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rg97dv/paper_claiming_a_lack_of_evidence_covid19/ | 16:20 |
| LjL | haven't read the reasons (bit of in a hurry right now) but sometimes i cynically wonder if some of these retractions may not be based on scientific or COI reasons but simply pushed because the claims are undesirable | 16:22 |
| xx | LjL: I have no doubt that it sometimes happens, but I have no way of accurately telling when it happens | 16:32 |
| xx | it's more along the lines where if the study is just around the verge of being conclusive about some topic, it will get pushed towards conclusive/not-conclusive depending on something that is not science | 16:33 |
| xx | I've seen almost-shoddy studies get pushed out when they say something that's convenient, and almost-good studies retracted when they say something that is not convenient | 16:34 |
| LjL | What I will say is that I still favor lockdowns out of a cautionary principle, but given the oddities of these waves, I don't feel I can say for sure that there's a definite correlation with the waves | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +8902 cases (now 1.9 million), +32 deaths (now 29999) since 20 hours ago | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Derek Lowe (@Dereklowe): Pfizer's Paxlovid protease inhibitor for coronavirus infection continues to show strong clinical data. But here's why it's likely to be used only in very high-risk cases:science.org/content/blog-p… → https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/1470778518757908485 | 16:39 |
| Timvde | Hmm, the local store here has new tests from Hangzhou AllTest, based on these results I should probably not buy them? https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.44.2100441 | 16:39 |
| Timvde | Although the enclosed leaflet says that they perform really well | 16:40 |
| LjL | I bet | 16:42 |
| LjL | If you look at the github Timvde I think I had some sites with tables of tests. Not sure if any will be any better than what you've already found though | 16:43 |
| Timvde | I'll just wait until the NewGene tests are back in stock | 16:43 |
| LjL | (The sites not the tests) | 16:43 |
| Timvde | LjL: de-facto gave me that link | 16:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): 2 new reports: up to 100-fold increase in neutralization activity vs Omicron after 3rd dose vaccinemedrxiv.org/content/10.110…biorxiv.org/content/10.110… pic.twitter.com/ssLN1NSAAr → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470781357844570112 | 16:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Jeffrey Barrett (@jcbarret): Fabulous thread, with clear visuals on how Omicron evades pre-existing immunity, and how boosting really helps counteract that. twitter.com/BalazsLab/stat… → https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1470785740254683137 | 17:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Tuesday 14 December 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/rgaox7/tuesday_14_december_2021_update/ | 17:29 |
| mrdata | Dredd, yes; but it doesnt stop the delusional from invoking contingency hypotheses ("he must have had low vitamin D and zinc status") to keep their belief that ivermectin works; they cite low reproduction rates in india and africa (dubious surveillance explains it better i think) | 17:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +12808 cases (now 2.9 million), +74 deaths (now 20670) since 23 hours ago | 17:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Testing a Mindfulness/Acceptance-Based Smartphone App for Nurses Impacted by the COVID-19 Pandemic → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05157035 | 17:39 |
| xx | mrdata: I've seen interesting arguments for ivermectin recently. | 17:40 |
| xx | they claim that lots of people have asymptomatic parasitic infections, and administering ivermectin kills the parasites, and that causes the immune system to starting doing something in order to clear up the parasitic remains, which incidentally also helps clear up coronavirus | 17:41 |
| mrdata | :/ | 17:42 |
| mrdata | there are infinite ideas about this | 17:42 |
| ublx | or just removes a burden allowing more immune resources to target other infections | 17:43 |
| edcba | can parasites catch viruses ? | 17:44 |
| xx | true, things like CMV do stress the immune system persistently | 17:44 |
| ublx | removing the most dubious data from ivermectin systematic reviews seems to leave positive results only in regions where worm infestation is endemic | 17:45 |
| xx | something about the immune system having to keep working on getting the viral load low | 17:45 |
| xx | if it was up to me, I'd treat everyone with ivermectin anyway, irrelevant of any corona thing. It's an extremely well studied medicine used for over half a century, and could be used to exterminate some human parasites forever. | 17:46 |
| ublx | the argument has come from and been mirrored in several quarters. here's one prolix review: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: Safety of Pediatric COVID-19 Vaccination: Conditions : Pain; Injection Site Reaction; Adverse Drug Event → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05157191 | 17:49 |
| ublx | skip to end for summary, first point being: "Ivermectin doesn’t reduce mortality in COVID a significant amount (let’s say d > 0.3) in the absence of comorbid parasites: 85-90% confidence" | 17:50 |
| xx | yeah it wouldn't surprise me if people that die of covid do have some parasites already | 17:54 |
| mrdata | might want to look at deaths from all causes, in these places | 17:54 |
| xx | not necessarily due to lifestyle, but due to simply already having a poorly functioning immune system that hasn't managed to clear the parasitic infection | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Measurment of Interleuukin-6 at Exhaled Breath Condensate of Covid-19 Patients and Post Covid-19 Patients With Lung Fibrosis Randomized Controlled Study → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05157204 | 17:59 |
| mrdata | if you have parasites, (or low vit D or zinc) you should be treated for those | 18:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): And now the good/bad news for RNA/J&J recipients. I'll put 3 images together so all the info is in one place.It's a lot of data but the patterns are clear. First, boosting works better than previous infection across all strains, WT, Delta, and [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470801659945050112 | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Dual pandemic in London atm - both Delta and Omicron cases rising twitter.com/theosanderson/… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470804794906492929 | 18:20 |
| Dredd | <xx> "Guest47: you're here often..." <- Hey, I mentioned the other day that if they want to they will. Please don't keep bringing it up 😉 | 18:22 |
| xx | Dredd: if you read further, you can see me mention that I am not asking them to do it, just that I was wondering why | 18:23 |
| xx | I'm in a few other channels unrelated to covid, where we deal with things like basic opsec, and we have a number of people thinking they are safer without an account, only to realize that they are actually broadcasting their home IP to everyone (due to no cloaks and no VPN/Tor) | 18:24 |
| xx | similarly with the issue of using the webchat which is less stable overall, and is prone to accidental tab closing or the browser unloading the tab (due to memory contention for example) than when one uses an actual irc client | 18:25 |
| xx | one could claim that web browsers have undergone more security hardening, sandboxing and review than irc clients, but they also have a much wider attack surface, so it is a question open to discussion | 18:26 |
| * LjL logs the discussion using log4j | 18:27 | |
| xx | ${jndi:justkiddinglol} | 18:28 |
| xx | wait are you serious? | 18:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +20665 cases (now 5.3 million), +120 deaths (now 135049), +776563 tests (now 127.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +40903 cases (now 6.6 million), +621 deaths (now 107029) since 23 hours ago | 18:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): There is no sign of let up of the Omicron wave in South Africa.Highest test positivity yet and ~24,000 new cases added today twitter.com/miamalan/statu… pic.twitter.com/Pn2aJtsfgS → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470805426723639296 | 18:30 |
| Dredd | <Guest47> "Hi folks, what do you make of..." <- Still a positive test per the instructions but seems to be moving in the right direction! | 18:30 |
| xx | so few places actually mention that it's spring/almost summer in SA compared to Europe/USA/Asia, which probably will affect the viral spread and possibly severity | 18:31 |
| xx | (so few people actually realize that southern hemisphere has seasons at different times) | 18:31 |
| xx | and a few people actually doubt the hemiSPHERE part of that :D | 18:31 |
| LjL | xx: no | 18:32 |
| xx | good :) | 18:32 |
| Dredd | <Guest47> "I was gonna break self isolation..." <- Good call | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Another clear result is that J&J is inferior in all states. You can see across all states in tweet #4, or we can just look at the freshly vaccinated but unboosted state below. The freshly vaxxed state vs WT would reflect the conditions that earned J&J [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470809321525051392 | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): But the most concerning thing is this: J&J+booster doesn't work as well against new variants compared to Moderna+booster or Pfizer+booster.You notice how J&J boosted is similar to Pfizer boosted for WT (especially if high Pfizer outliers removed), [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470811913546178564 | 18:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Also because of the nice color-coding, we can see above that the JnJers who got Moderna boost (red) were better off than the one who chose a JnJ boost. Small n, but it's as we expect from the heterologous boost study. So can't claim the "wrong" [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470811915446153223 | 18:59 |
| lastshell | any good news ? | 19:01 |
| Jigsy | I see the UK's "GET A BOOST NOW" thing is working out nicely. | 19:04 |
| Jigsy | "I was queing for five hours, and when I got in there, there were only two people jabbing." | 19:04 |
| lastshell | that's nice | 19:04 |
| Jigsy | They're never going to hit 1,000,000/day like that. | 19:04 |
| xx | Jigsy: I see a lot more people jabbing each other under the bridges these days, maybe you could try it there? :) | 19:04 |
| ublx | what are you doing hanging around under bridges, xx? | 19:05 |
| lastshell | here in US we hoarding vaccines but what for | 19:05 |
| lastshell | https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/14/us-covid-shot-distribution-faces-new-challenges-in-year-two-ups-vaccine-logistics-head-says.html | 19:05 |
| Jigsy | >When you see the homeless guy getting his COVID-19 vaccination for the 10th time this week | 19:05 |
| Jigsy | Thumbs up.jph | 19:05 |
| Jigsy | .jpg :D | 19:05 |
| xx | ublx: protects me from rain | 19:05 |
| lastshell | Covid shots ‘returned or destroyed’ due to challenges | 19:05 |
| Jigsy | Spoke to my neighbor earlier. | 19:06 |
| Jigsy | Said everyone's probably better off waiting until New Year. | 19:06 |
| Jigsy | Since pre-Christmas mad rush. | 19:06 |
| lastshell | I lost one family member and I know other family friends that also die | 19:06 |
| lastshell | unvaccinated | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sri Lanka: +2545 cases (now 576194), +20 deaths (now 14661) since a day ago | 19:06 |
| lastshell | I now try to push vaccines when I found a person who doesn't want but is hard | 19:07 |
| dTal | Infuriatingly, I was waiting for two hours today, and most of that time the line was barely moving, and when I finally got to the jabby area the marshall there was all "it's been quiet all morning, what a sudden rush" | 19:07 |
| dTal | someone messed up the logistics hard | 19:08 |
| lastshell | dTal you got booster ? | 19:08 |
| dTal | I did | 19:08 |
| lastshell | nice | 19:08 |
| dTal | only 4 months since my second jab | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): This also means the limited humoral response of the J&J vaccine, long waved aside by Ad proponents who claimed the Ad vaccines had better T cell responses, does indeed lead to a meaningful functional disadvantage. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470816071372312581 | 19:08 |
| lastshell | why 4 months ? | 19:08 |
| dTal | because they want everyone to get a booster asap | 19:09 |
| lastshell | got it | 19:09 |
| dTal | Jigsy: I wanted my jab before christmas, to minimize the risk of giving it to my family | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | I've been boostered but I never meet anybody. | 19:11 |
| Jigsy | I've had my two. | 19:12 |
| Jigsy | I think the 2nd was in July? | 19:12 |
| Jigsy | Ah, June. | 19:13 |
| dTal | I meant booster jab. | 19:13 |
| dTal | I have now had 3. | 19:13 |
| lastshell | https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&uniformYAxis=0&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Cases+and+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=GBR~ITA~ESP | 19:14 |
| dTal | At least, they tell me I have. I didn't see it go in at all. Could all be a ruse. | 19:14 |
| lastshell | I can see italy and spain going up | 19:14 |
| lastshell | in cases | 19:14 |
| lastshell | uk also is going up crazy | 19:15 |
| lastshell | im sure USA cases are not counted very well | 19:15 |
| dTal | I wouldn't say that UK is "going up crazy" | 19:16 |
| dTal | if you look at the trend lines on a log graph since July "freedom day", nothing especially remarkable is happening... yet | 19:16 |
| lastshell | yeah | 19:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): It would makes sense to deprecate J&J to the role of a booster to the RNA vaccines (where it seems to work well enough, see green dot below, and may give a broader CD8 T cell response). pic.twitter.com/D9yPj9RNSr → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470819426882621443 | 19:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Basically you need a RNA vaccine at some time to prime a wide B cell population for antibodies against variants. J&J does not substitute. If you don't do it earlier, you'll just have to do it later. I hope for the health of JnJers that @CDCgov and [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470821455420035073 | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +59647 cases (now 11.0 million), +151 deaths (now 147085), +44328 vaccines (now 51.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 19:31 |
| Timvde | I wonder if J&J is actually "bad" or just worse because it was only one dose | 19:33 |
| LjL-Matrix | I suspect one dose of AZ would be very similar | 19:34 |
| Timvde | Yes, but they gave 2 doses, and it seems that 2x AZ + mRNA gives better protection against variants than 3x mRNA (iiuc) | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A 3rd report today which includes Moderna and J&J vaccine data for the first time"Neutralization of Omicron was undetectable in most vaccinated individuals [before boost]."1-shot J&J + mRNA boost not as high for neutralization as 3 dose [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470826224775688192 | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A 4th report documents both Prior Covid or 2-dose Pfizer vaccine provide low level neutralization vs Omicron, resolved by , and nearly all the monoclonal antibodies (except sotrovimab /S309 ) will lack effectivenessmedrxiv.org/content/10.110… pic.twitter.com/eXDMpl7cTs → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470829212969824260 | 19:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): @CDCgov @CDCDirector A couple of clarifications: As 2x RNA didn't produce nAbs vs variants (that's the recently vaxxed but unboosted case) but a 3rd shot of any sort did, it means 2x RNA may be needed to activate that broad memory B cell population. So [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470831034207899648 | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Second, J&Jers boosted with Moderna should do fine against Delta. J&J + Moderna gives even more nAbs against Delta than 2x Pfizer unboosted (below), and that correlates with 80% VE against Delta disease. This is consistent with the previous prediction [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470833067824594949 | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): So in a sense JJ+RNA booster gets to where 2xRNA was to begin with (pic1 below). But it is worse than 3xRNA for variants, esp Omicron (pic2 below). And with decay we expect some loss of protection to Delta in the upcoming months (if we go by 2xPfizer [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470836034317418499 | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +26136 cases (now 5.4 million), +58 deaths (now 88542) since 23 hours ago — Morocco: +219 cases (now 951763), +11286 tests (now 10.6 million) since a day ago — Germany: +46353 cases (now 6.6 million), +626 deaths (now 107085) since 23 hours ago — France: +14890 cases (now 8.4 million), +237 deaths (now 121661) since 23 hours ago | 20:33 |
| LjL | i agree with this guy on just about everything he says here https://www-huffingtonpost-it.translate.goog/entry/luca-ricolfi-il-governo-sbaglia-cosi-fa-abbassare-la-guardia-ai-vaccinati_it_61b66323e4b04ae31a00e544?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=it | 20:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine boosters induce neutralizing immunity against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rgf22l/mrnabased_covid19_vaccine_boosters_induce/ | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: 2022: Boris Johnson hit by huge Tory rebellion as coronavirus curbs pass → https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnsons-tory-rebellion-coronavirus/ | 20:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: High-Flow Oxygen Reduces Need for Mechanical Ventilation in Severe COVID-19: Patients with severe COVID-19 who received high-flow oxygen therapy were less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had a shorter time to clinical recovery, [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/high-flow-oxygen-reduces-need-for-mechanical-ventilation-in-severe-covid-19 | 21:04 |
| Arsanerit | Did UK revert their freedom day? | 21:05 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267755v1 | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine boosters induce neutralizing immunity against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant | medRxiv | 21:06 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267769v1 | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: mRNA booster immunization elicits potent neutralizing serum activity against the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant | medRxiv | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Made a mistake above regarding J&J as a booster. I misread a case of Moderna+Pfizer (blue dot) as Moderna+JJ (green dot). So this study doesn't say how well J&J works as a boost for RNA vax. The earlier study says J&J is inferior to RNA in boosting [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1470849242000355328 | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): Een degelijke modelling studie over waarschijnlijke impact van Omicron in het VK hieronder. Meest waarschijnlijke scenario: vergelijkbare golf dan in najaar 2020. Al wel met het effect van boosters meegerekend. cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19… twitter.com/BarnardResearc… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1470852354203439107 | 21:32 |
| Arsanerit | how bad can hospitalisation be if 100% are triply vaccinated? | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +21477 cases (now 9.1 million), +181 deaths (now 79503), +709653 tests (now 112.6 million) since a day ago | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): We just talked Covid with @ASlavitt, who I consider a version of "Mr Phelps," taking on Mission(s) Impossible for helping the United States with its biggest healthcare challenges. Here's our conversation w/ @cuttingforstone @Medscapemedscape.com/viewarticle/96… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470854240981581827 | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Brilliant discussion, on whether omicron will displace delta or not. Thanks @RogerDobson14 twitter.com/trvrb/status/1… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1470857015132106754 | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Eswatini: +1222 cases (now 54731), +2 deaths (now 1254), +2016 tests (now 407052) since a day ago | 22:00 |
| lastshell | Arsanerit are triple vax people in hospitals ? | 22:05 |
| mrdata | "Okay, fine, they misspelled “recovery” once. But they spelled it right the other time! That puts it in the top 50% for ivermectin papers!" | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: No cuddling the grandkids this Christmas, says Rutte as Dutch extend coronavirus measures → https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-rutte-christmas-cuddling-grandkids-dutch-coronavirus/ | 22:11 |
| gieroii[m] | https://odysee.com/@logos:3/Warning-to-Humanity_Michael-Yeadon:0 | 22:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: U.S. FDA Approves Pfizer’s XELJANZ® (tofacitinib) for the Treatment of Active Ankylosing Spondylitis: Anonymous (not verified) Tue, 12/14/2021 - 16:08 Tuesday, December 14, 2021 - 04:08pm NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: [... want %more?] → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/us-fda-approves-pfizers-xeljanzr-tofacitinib-treatment-0 | 22:21 |
| LjL | gieroii[m], what is that video about? the title sounds ominous. | 22:22 |
| lastshell | a conspiracy video afik | 22:40 |
| aradesh | i had a jab yesterday. feel a bit tired today | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Algeria: +230 cases (now 213288), +4 deaths (now 6155) since a day ago | 22:44 |
| LjL | lastshell, yes he's banned | 22:49 |
| LjL | i gave them a few minutes to explain | 22:49 |
| LjL | if you're going to throw a link and then hide, might as well leave | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: December 14, 2021 → http://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-december-14-2021 | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Gibraltar: +43 cases (now 7589), +1346 tests (now 430182) since a day ago — Aruba: +41 cases (now 16646), +1 deaths (now 178) since a day ago | 23:03 |
| LjL | Gibraltar! they were 100% vaccinated ages ago already, right? did they get boosters | 23:03 |
| LjL | %cases Gibraltar | 23:03 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Gibraltar has had 7589 confirmed cases (22.5% of all people) and 100 deaths (1.3% of cases; 1 in 337 people) as of 31 seconds ago. 430182 tests were done (1.8% positive). 41075 were vaccinated (121.9%). +43 cases, +1346 tests since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Gibraltar&legacy=no | 23:03 |
| LjL | their wave is actually slowing down though, i guess Brainstorm was conveniently not showing it when it did take plae | 23:04 |
| sdfgsdfg | oof | 23:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | isn't Gibraltar the only country that successfully jabbed 100% of their population | 23:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | the only place on earth where media can't blame the unvaccinated :P | 23:08 |
| LjL | not the only anymore i think, at least for some decent approximation of 100% | 23:08 |
| LjL | but anyway their wave basically didn't have deaths, unlike their prior wave | 23:08 |
| LjL | so they probably can't blame anyone, since the vaccines worked :P | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Omicron now 13% of cases in NY and NJ; health officials brace for sharp rise → https://arstechnica.com/ | 23:08 |
| Arsanerit | lastshell: maybe a few (apart from in hospital unrelated to covid, of course) | 23:08 |
| lastshell | ok | 23:09 |
| LjL | unfortunately they were not available last January when they had their peak of deaths | 23:09 |
| Arsanerit | sdfgsdfg: no, they didn't; they counted foreigners vaccinated in gibraltar, so the % calculation is wrong | 23:09 |
| LjL | https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom;Italy;Gibraltar&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&legacy=no | 23:09 |
| Arsanerit | The 100% vaccination figure for Gibraltar is wrong. | 23:09 |
| Arsanerit | In German press I've seen talk of a 4th dose for summer already. | 23:10 |
| Arsanerit | 31 seconds is recent | 23:10 |
| finely[m] | <xx> "ublx: you're right, however that..." <- It seem the current consensus is COVID is very infrequently spread by fomites. Alcohol is a mutagen. Plain soap, warm water and physical scrubbing is the best way to kill COVID on surfaces. A soapy washcloth in a ziplock bag is probably the best way to clean hand when out and about (if there are no sinks and plain soap). | 23:11 |
| dTal | a mutagen? o no im gonna get hand cancer | 23:14 |
| dTal | I use so much alcohol. So much. | 23:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Pfizer says its pill may be effective against Omicron COVID-19: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Dec 14, 2021 The pill cut non-Omicron hospitalization or death 89% if taken early in the disease course, company data show. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/pfizer-says-its-pill-may-be-effective-against-omicron-covid-19 | 23:27 |
| trbp | yey anti corona pill, that thing people waited for with aids for decades | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Cornell shuts down its Ithaca campus after significant signs of omicron variant found: The campus reported nearly 500 new cases of COVID-19 among the student body. The new omicron variant was detected "in a significant number" of [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/14/1064197606/cornell-university-omicron-campus-shut-down-covid | 23:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, maybe you can't just guess, but would you guess the areas under these graphs are equivalent when smoothed? https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom;Germany;Italy;Netherlands;Sweden&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&leftTrim=650&legacy=no because i'm wondering, Italy has almost the same case curve as Sweden now, but Italy's deaths are going UP, and Sweden's deaths are going DOWN (almost to zero). but, the two countries also seem to have a very | 23:39 |
| LjL | different weekly pattern of deaths. are the looks of the graph deceiving me? | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +6986 cases (now 34.7 million) since 18 hours ago | 23:40 |
| de-facto | hmm i am not sure | 23:44 |
| de-facto | even more strange if you tick cumulative | 23:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: "Omicron is a grave threat," UK Health Secretary Sajid Javid told members of Parliament, saying the strain was already estimated to be infecting 200,000 people a day in the U.K. "Scientists have never seen a COVID-19 variant that is capable of [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rgj1rj/omicron_is_a_grave_threat_uk_health_secretary/ | 23:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, for what the WHO used to consider the 2nd best healthcare system in the world, Italy has a pretty bad deaths/cases ratio | 23:47 |
| LjL | but yeah it's getting worse, and sweden's is getting better, and i don't understand why | 23:48 |
| LjL | we aren't even close to hospital saturation | 23:48 |
| LjL | are we just better at dying | 23:48 |
| de-facto | age groups? | 23:48 |
| LjL | well sweden isn't quite south africa either! | 23:48 |
| de-facto | IFR is an exponential of age, yet in that data age is an unknown | 23:48 |
| de-facto | e.g. if incidence happens in younger cohorts of the population its going to be exponentially less deadly | 23:49 |
| LjL | well, italy has a higher vaccination rate than sweden, and afaik older age groups are by now "very vaccinated" | 23:50 |
| LjL | sweden has omicron, italy doesn't, and omicron is actually milder? | 23:51 |
| LjL | or conversely, italy has omicron invisibly, sweden doesn't, and turns out omicron is deadlier? | 23:51 |
| LjL | you can also compare with the UK | 23:51 |
| LjL | cases are going up both in Italy and the UK, but Italy is still at less than half | 23:51 |
| LjL | and yet, the deaths are almost meeting | 23:51 |
| de-facto | italy got a median age of 46.5 and Sweden got one of 41.1 | 23:54 |
| LjL | wow, that's more different than i imagined | 23:54 |
| de-facto | also the high age group is exponentially overrepresented in fatalities to to the exponential IFR | 23:55 |
| de-facto | so comparing how the highest age groups changed during phases of pandemic may shed some light on interesting effects | 23:55 |
| de-facto | possibly even depletion of vulnerable at some points? | 23:55 |
| LjL | but, in that case, Italy has had more cases and deaths historically, and clearly most of them have been in elderly and vulnerable | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Jim Wappes: South Africa Omicron study finds drop in vaccine protection, fewer hospitalized → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/south-africa-omicron-study-finds-drop-vaccine-protection-fewer-hospitalized | 23:56 |
| LjL | so if either country had a depletion of vulnerable... that should be italy, not sweden | 23:56 |
| de-facto | i really do not have enough overview of either countries demographic dynamics | 23:57 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
