| oerheks | *do not lick these elevator buttons* | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| de-facto | i would not even go inside an elevator | 00:01 |
| de-facto | how would i know who coughed into that tiny cabin half an hour before i entered it? | 00:01 |
| oerheks | I still have no clue how it transmits, on what surfaces, or does it act like a mushroom.. | 00:01 |
| oerheks | floating on a string.. | 00:01 |
| oerheks | de-facto, 2 elevators here, for 100 residents... | 00:02 |
| de-facto | aerosol spread, like smoke | 00:02 |
| oerheks | and i have to walk the dog 4-5x day | 00:02 |
| de-facto | imagine someone smokes a cigarette, would you be able to smell it? if the answer is yes then the smoke migrated from the smokers lung inside your nose, hence potentially if that was aerosol (that cant be smelled) it would have been able to infect you | 00:03 |
| oerheks | .. on the floor .. walk it into your clean home.. | 00:03 |
| ublx | it's.. in the air | 00:04 |
| ublx | how often do you breath your floor in? | 00:04 |
| de-facto | i would think that most infections happen via aerosol, then second most via droplets (people spitting into each others faces when talking to each other), and only a bit via surfaces (where it could stay infectious for days to weeks depending on conditions and contamination dose) | 00:05 |
| de-facto | peak may be in mid of Jan in UK | 00:10 |
| dTal | oerheks: I'd get a filtering respirator if I were you | 00:10 |
| oerheks | dTal, i have those, and push buttons with my house-key | 00:11 |
| oerheks | bump doors with my behind | 00:11 |
| dTal | excellent, you sound like you have your shit together | 00:11 |
| oerheks | I wish the other 99 residents did the same.. | 00:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uruguay: +356 cases (now 404255), +3 deaths (now 6153), +9825 tests (now 4.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Rwanda: +230 cases (now 101413) since 22 hours ago | 00:15 |
| de-facto | i wonder how severe Omicron will become in the non-vaccinated naive cohorts | 00:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: UK records more than 90,000 Covid cases for second day in a row → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjj0ic/covid_uk_records_more_than_90000_covid_cases_for/ | 00:23 |
| oerheks | sofar, looking at the stats in south africa, i fear the next one, pi | 00:23 |
| sdfgsdfg | I also live in a more than 100 resident tower with 3 lifts, but I'm more scared about the grocery shopping than this. Hepa filters are reliable but trying to sterilize some lemons is not | 00:23 |
| sdfgsdfg | we'd need pressurized air spaces to disinfect everything on arrival | 00:24 |
| oerheks | open vegetables i leave in the shelve.. | 00:24 |
| oerheks | frozen food is oke | 00:24 |
| oerheks | .. and much cheaper now :-D | 00:24 |
| de-facto | In Germany we have 24.1M people over 60 year old, only 52.6% are boosted (11.4M not boosted), 86.9% is double vaccinated (3.16M NOT vaccinated and over 60) | 00:26 |
| de-facto | this MAY become a disaster for them | 00:26 |
| oerheks | dutch pension funds are high in the green again.. in 2019 they were in the red. | 00:27 |
| ublx | i'd say a lemon is an easy thing to sterilise. its skin doesn't seem likely to admit soapy water | 00:27 |
| ublx | but the most convenient thing, space permitting, seems to be cycling groceries so that they can lie undisturbed for a couple of days | 00:28 |
| de-facto | i dont think that suffices as it can stay infectious for many days on surfaces | 00:29 |
| de-facto | but i also think the risk from that is pretty low (contaminated foods) | 00:30 |
| ublx | de-facto: those results were theoretical, were they not? not exactly "no evidence", but not demonstration of functional viability either | 00:30 |
| de-facto | i would worry more about proximity to people | 00:30 |
| de-facto | they measured it in a lab long time ago, artificially controlled environment, but were able to infect cell cultures after weeks | 00:31 |
| de-facto | i think it was clean shiny surfaces in the dark though | 00:31 |
| ublx | various surfaces | 00:31 |
| ublx | still theoretical | 00:31 |
| ublx | they didn't exactly swab surfaces then stick swabs in volunteer nostrils | 00:32 |
| de-facto | i think the contamination on food is pretty low, at least here all people in supermarket wear masks and those that dont get thrown out violently | 00:32 |
| ublx | yeah | 00:32 |
| de-facto | if you really are worried maybe cook the vegetables? | 00:33 |
| ublx | fairly confident you could cook with a basket of groceries freshly delivered and be just fine if you didn't touch your face without washing your hands | 00:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): 2020.09 (that's 2020, should have put it earlier): Announcing the first SARSCoV2 protease inhibitor with a alkylated proline P2 group for preorganization, based on the HCV protease inhibitor boceprevir (later seen in Pfizer's PF-07321332 = [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1472347043494391813 | 00:33 |
| de-facto | actually it will have a certain half life under a given condition, hence it depends on initial contamination dose how long it will take until it decayed away | 00:34 |
| ublx | the frozen food angle is an interesting one, given that freezers are used to preserve microbes | 00:34 |
| ublx | presumably what was meant was that frozen food packaging is easier to sanitise than lettuce | 00:34 |
| de-facto | so if the contamination dose is very low, it indeed could suffice to let it just stay for a few days until the small potential contamination could have decayed | 00:35 |
| de-facto | may change with omicron when fewer virions may suffice already to kickstart an infection | 00:35 |
| ublx | hmm | 00:35 |
| de-facto | .title https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-020-01418-7 | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From virologyj.biomedcentral.com: The effect of temperature on persistence of SARS-CoV-2 on common surfaces | Virology Journal | Full Text | 00:36 |
| de-facto | not sure there probably are newer papers about it, but i think its not a relevant part of transmissions, so i did not really read up on it | 00:36 |
| de-facto | (and yes i do sanitize my hands, prevent touching my face, and do wash my hands with warm water and soap once i come home) | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +266 cases (now 743852), +235367 tests (now 106.5 million) since a day ago — Netherlands: +14670 cases (now 3.0 million) since 20 hours ago — Canada: +6624 cases (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago | 00:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Guests urged to be vaccinated at anti-vaxxer Robert F Kennedy Jr’s party → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjjlww/guests_urged_to_be_vaccinated_at_antivaxxer/ | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A reporter risked her life to show the world Covid in Wuhan. Now she may not survive jail. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjjm13/a_reporter_risked_her_life_to_show_the_world/ | 01:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kenya: +2169 cases (now 262335), +9428 tests (now 2.9 million) since a day ago | 01:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): What defines an efficacious COVID-19 vaccine? A review of the challenges assessing the clinical efficacy of vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 thelancet.com/article/S1473-… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1472359887309004807 | 01:20 |
| minthos | clearly the safe option is to grow your own vegetables so they get sterilized by sunlight while they grow | 01:25 |
| minthos | give me a solarpunk future please | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +89190 cases (now 11.3 million) since 21 hours ago | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Madagascar: +1501 cases (now 47295), +16 deaths (now 996), +16736 tests (now 307183) since 7 days ago | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Antibody Responses to 3rd Dose mRNA Vaccines in Nursing Home and Assisted Living Residents → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rjkx66/antibody_responses_to_3rd_dose_mrna_vaccines_in/ | 02:17 |
| Trippy72894 | against omicron, how does sinovac stack up against other vaccines? | 02:52 |
| LjL | i'm almost positive no one has a clue | 02:55 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 02:55 |
| Trippy72894 | and now, where's all this headed? What's all this going to look like in 3 years, better or worse? | 02:56 |
| Trippy72894 | are we screwed, it will pass, or ongoing crap, pardon the swear. | 02:56 |
| Trippy72894 | will vaccines get better or stop working against whatever is going around? | 02:58 |
| LjL | the EU has triggered a clause with their Pfizer/BNT contract that requires them to develop an Omicron-specific vaccine within 100 days | 03:00 |
| oerheks | let me jump 10 years in the future, brb | 03:00 |
| LjL | and they can totally do that (they already have one for Delta)... the problem, and the thing that takes time, is a trial | 03:00 |
| Trippy72894 | interesting indeed | 03:01 |
| oerheks | back, nope, we should have shutdown airports, as de-facto suggested | 03:01 |
| Trippy72894 | but doesn't it seem like omicron will just get everywhere no matter what? | 03:02 |
| Trippy72894 | isn't it just a matter of time till we all get it? | 03:02 |
| minthos | the virus isn't magical | 03:03 |
| minthos | if humans stop mingling the virus can't infect anyone (well, except animals..) | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | my friend says "no vaccine, natural immunity from getting and and surviving is better." to which I replied "vaccine won't stop it, but make it less likely you get sick, and if you do get it while vaccinated, you will get natural immunity also" | 03:04 |
| minthos | but it takes a lot more effort to stop omicron than the previous variants | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | is that right? | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | minthos good point | 03:04 |
| minthos | the side effects from the vaccine are considerably less than the side effects from the virus | 03:05 |
| Trippy72894 | but that is neither here nor there | 03:05 |
| minthos | it is though, it's the reason vaccines exist | 03:05 |
| oerheks | the horror starts when testing is no longer free :-( | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | if vaccinated and you get covid, you still get immunity from your defenses and the ones the vaccine provided, right? | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | am i getting that wrong? | 03:06 |
| oerheks | you would end up with antibodies, yes. | 03:06 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, it may just be a matter of time until we get it, but how much time, and what we get, matter | 03:06 |
| LjL | how much time = will hospitals be swamped with huge waves, or will it occur over time | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | oerheks and LjL understood | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | that makes sense | 03:07 |
| LjL | what we get = how bad will be the variant, and what kind of immunity will we have | 03:07 |
| minthos | the point of vaccines is to teach the body to make the right antibodies so when the real virus gets to you your body can stop it faster | 03:07 |
| LjL | Omicron seems "very exponential", but the previous waves also seemed very exponential, yet they didn't get everyone. they did get quite a few people, but then they stopped about as quickly as they had started | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | fair enough. i'm trying to convince my friend in holland not to trust only two people who "make sense", one of whom is an entrepreneur | 03:07 |
| LjL | i'm not sure why that happens, but i think that will happen with Omicron too, as it seems to be happening in South Africa | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | you mean in S africa it's vanishing? | 03:08 |
| Trippy72894 | that's encouraging | 03:08 |
| LjL | not vanishing, but certainly going down | 03:08 |
| Trippy72894 | is that to do with omicron reinfection? | 03:08 |
| Trippy72894 | like it's so fast that it will go before reinfecting or something? | 03:08 |
| LjL | no | 03:08 |
| LjL | Omicron could potentially reinfect everybody, as it seems to have a high potential for reinfection | 03:09 |
| oerheks | spanish flu (originated in Boston) disappeared the 2nd year.. | 03:09 |
| LjL | but it likely hasn't infected everybody yet, so it's not simply out of hosts | 03:09 |
| Trippy72894 | i see | 03:09 |
| Trippy72894 | ok | 03:09 |
| LjL | like i said i don't quite know why this happens. i've heard various hypotheses but i'm not comfortable saying any of them is true | 03:09 |
| Trippy72894 | is it running out of hosts in s africa? | 03:09 |
| LjL | it already has | 03:09 |
| LjL | "it" being SARS-COV-2, not Omicron per se | 03:09 |
| LjL | there's more than 90% estimated immunity in South Africa | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | because everone recently got it right, and still have resistance to reinfection? | 03:10 |
| LjL | Omicron possibly arose *because* most people were immune to prior variants (not a certainty, but possible) | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | wow 90 percent. | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | interesting | 03:10 |
| LjL | look at the wave https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=South%20Africa&cumulative=no&legacy=no | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | so that's good news for earth? | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | checking.... | 03:10 |
| LjL | each wave in South Africa has been taller | 03:10 |
| LjL | and this one has happened much faster | 03:10 |
| LjL | but it's also going down fast | 03:10 |
| Trippy72894 | very very interesting. you can sort of see where it's going | 03:11 |
| LjL | you can see it better if you hit "Smooth" | 03:11 |
| Trippy72894 | doing.... | 03:11 |
| LjL | but i've left it un-hit because sometimes it's deceiving at the end of the graph | 03:11 |
| LjL | but this time it looks right to me | 03:11 |
| Trippy72894 | ah yes, i see it | 03:11 |
| Trippy72894 | so will omicron spawn new variants? | 03:12 |
| Trippy72894 | predictions for next few years? will this $#%#$$%#%ing thing end? | 03:12 |
| minthos | yes | 03:12 |
| minthos | no | 03:12 |
| Trippy72894 | please switch those around to no then yes | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 03:13 |
| LjL | i'm afraid i concur with "yes" and "no" | 03:13 |
| oerheks | Trippy72894, nostradamus said 3 x 3 x 3 = 27 years | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | ahhhh crap | 03:13 |
| minthos | I thik we will get pretty good vaccines and learn to live with the virus | 03:13 |
| LjL | but that doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world | 03:13 |
| minthos | but it will take a while | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | nostradamus said a lot that was wrong, most things in fact | 03:13 |
| oerheks | 25 to go | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | ok that's encouraging | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | could there be a magic bullet vaccine? | 03:14 |
| minthos | yes | 03:14 |
| minthos | but not yet | 03:14 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, look up universal vaccine / pancoronavirus vaccine / pan-sarbecovirus vaccine | 03:14 |
| Trippy72894 | likelihood? | 03:14 |
| Trippy72894 | looking up.... | 03:14 |
| minthos | I'm not qualified to estimate that | 03:14 |
| LjL | likelihood pretty decent if governments stop just paying Pfizer for whatever they have, and fund development instead | 03:14 |
| Trippy72894 | qualified to guess? | 03:15 |
| minthos | pretty good I think.. | 03:15 |
| de-facto | btw IF we assume for a moment that Omicron will reach almost everyone and that in a very short amount if time, even if the price is high in terms of deaths and hospitalizations, would that mean that a lot of immunity is created, simultaneously, globally, hence make it extra difficult for whatever may come after Omicron? | 03:15 |
| Trippy72894 | corporations will be the death of us all. been saying that for years | 03:15 |
| lastshell | where is john titor when we need it | 03:15 |
| LjL | de-facto, but Omicron had it extra easy even though it came right after Delta... | 03:15 |
| Trippy72894 | de-facto, good | 03:15 |
| LjL | why can't the next one do the same? | 03:15 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, corporations only dictate the rules to an extent. governments can still say "no, that's not what we want in the longer term". but governments more often think in the shorter term. | 03:16 |
| lastshell | the media is still telling that omicron is mild | 03:16 |
| de-facto | well good point, so should we start asking what kind of immunity is created my getting infected with Omicron, for the majority or cases (e.g. with the most common pre-existing immune conditions, such as vaccinations or Delta)? | 03:16 |
| de-facto | do we even know if recovery from Omicron blocks the previous variants? | 03:17 |
| de-facto | or mutants based on them? | 03:17 |
| Trippy72894 | well corporations control governments in some places | 03:17 |
| Trippy72894 | those are good questions, de-facto | 03:17 |
| LjL | de-facto, maybe we'll be more strongly protected once we've been infected by *two* somewhat different variants | 03:17 |
| LjL | lastshell, the media may be "right". and by "right" i mean wrong because they had no *good* reason to blabber about it being milder... but i think it could be milder after all | 03:18 |
| LjL | maybe not milder per se, but milder in a mostly-immune population | 03:18 |
| lastshell | I hope the media is right (just this time) | 03:18 |
| LjL | south africa shows that. now the next question is, will the UK show the same, with a different type of immunity mostly | 03:18 |
| dTal | de-facto: not just "whatever may comee after omicron" | 03:19 |
| dTal | maybe it's so infectious that we really can reach a superior herd immunity | 03:19 |
| dTal | as you say it infects everyone simulaneously | 03:20 |
| de-facto | it certainly may infect people faster, globally, than vaccination campaigns could do | 03:20 |
| lastshell | I want to come one day to this channela and scream pandemic is over and run naked on the streets | 03:20 |
| lastshell | some day | 03:21 |
| de-facto | the price may be many deaths though | 03:21 |
| lastshell | I don't want more deaths | 03:21 |
| Trippy72894 | could china's zero covid policy result in a more vulnerable population? | 03:21 |
| dTal | I am scared for my parents | 03:21 |
| lastshell | same dTal | 03:22 |
| de-facto | and the question LjL asked is very relevant: Why can Omicron infect Delta recovered so easy and will this become less likely when our immune systems get re-challenged with more diversity | 03:22 |
| lastshell | but omicron is the evolution of delta ? | 03:23 |
| LjL | de-facto, Trippy72894: one reason why i think the answer may be "yes" is this paper https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)01062-X | 03:23 |
| de-facto | e.g. for a potential successor to Omicron, will this be significantly different because Omicron was the second or third infection, e.g. broadening the immunity? | 03:23 |
| Trippy72894 | checking... | 03:24 |
| LjL | lastshell, Omicron may not actually be evolved from Delta for all we know | 03:24 |
| oerheks | the Omicron variant showed that it had more mutations than the Delta | 03:25 |
| de-facto | i mean maybe if the immune system gets challenged with two variants of very different surfaces, would it promote those antibodies that bind to conserved regions, e.g. those that the virus could not easily change without some significant fitness loss? | 03:25 |
| Trippy72894 | i cannot understand the https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)01062-X article | 03:26 |
| Trippy72894 | is there a lay-person's explanation? | 03:26 |
| lastshell | Welcome to my world Trippy72894 | 03:26 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 03:26 |
| dTal | LjL: I thought that Omicron emphatically wasn't evolved from Delta | 03:26 |
| lastshell | but try to read the paper takes time | 03:26 |
| Trippy72894 | afk. will check back. love this channel. thanks all! | 03:27 |
| dTal | https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff42832f5-4311-4322-9457-6b35c308856a_1600x1069.png | 03:27 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, "at least in mice, when you show the immune system different bits of things that look like SARS-COV-2 but aren't quite it, as long as there is variety, the immune system learns to react to all of them, including SARS-COV-2" | 03:27 |
| de-facto | dTal, it looks very remotely similar to Alpha but highly mutated | 03:27 |
| LjL | dTal, i can't display that url | 03:27 |
| de-facto | e.g. it also got those s-gene droupouts at del6970 or what was it? | 03:27 |
| de-facto | also it aquired the ability to bind to mouse ACE2, surprisingly | 03:28 |
| Trippy72894 | LjL, so then in China, people get vaccines and that's the bits of things, and so immunity okay, right? | 03:28 |
| LjL | dTal, i don't say things emphatically unless i'm myself very sure of them, or very fuming mad about the topic :P | 03:28 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, no | 03:28 |
| Trippy72894 | oh | 03:28 |
| LjL | their vaccines are not "bits of things" any more than ours are | 03:28 |
| LjL | you need differential bits | 03:29 |
| LjL | you need to show the immune system *different* spike proteins | 03:29 |
| dTal | https://bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f42832f5-4311-4322-9457-6b35c308856a_1600x1069.png | 03:29 |
| dTal | how about this URL | 03:29 |
| Trippy72894 | so you're better of in the West vaccinated and getting all the variants that come along? | 03:29 |
| LjL | ... no | 03:29 |
| Trippy72894 | oh | 03:29 |
| LjL | it's not either or | 03:30 |
| dTal | LjL: seems like a You problem | 03:30 |
| LjL | it's in fact not even related to what you're saying | 03:30 |
| Trippy72894 | oh | 03:30 |
| LjL | dTal, i can see that | 03:30 |
| LjL | i was replying to Trippy72894 | 03:30 |
| Trippy72894 | sorry to be so dumb | 03:30 |
| dTal | oh riight lmao | 03:30 |
| Trippy72894 | it's genetic | 03:30 |
| de-facto | not https://covariants.org/shared-mutations | 03:30 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 03:30 |
| oerheks | depends on your healthcareplan, i guess | 03:30 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, what i'm saying is that if you only show *one type* of virus (whether it's inactivated virus, or bits of mRNA, or bits of protein), you will only get one type of immunity | 03:31 |
| Trippy72894 | ahhh ok | 03:31 |
| LjL | if you show two types of virus, maybe you will get *many types* of immunity | 03:31 |
| LjL | because the immune system is smart (sometimes) | 03:31 |
| LjL | so what we need are multivalent vaccines | 03:31 |
| Trippy72894 | so if in china we get lots of different vaccines, that would be better? | 03:31 |
| dTal | but repeated breakthrougs provoke enhanced B-cell activity yes? | 03:31 |
| LjL | vaccines with more than one type of virus [protein] in them | 03:31 |
| Trippy72894 | ah i see | 03:31 |
| dTal | that's why the booster helps against Omicron | 03:31 |
| Trippy72894 | and will we get that? | 03:31 |
| lastshell | LjL the current mrna vaxx only use one protein right ? | 03:31 |
| de-facto | seems Omicron got all mutations of Alpha and a lot more by itself | 03:32 |
| lastshell | we need to target other proteins ? | 03:32 |
| LjL | dTal, a recent study showed that not only do the vaccines wane, but they wane *faster* for Delta than for prior variants and wild type. that, to me, says you can't continue pumping more of the same old vaccine unless you are willing to do that every week eventually | 03:32 |
| LjL | lastshell, no, that's not what i'm saying either | 03:32 |
| Trippy72894 | are boosters the same as the original vaccine, or are they "updated"? | 03:32 |
| LjL | maybe we do, but it's totally not what i'm saying | 03:32 |
| LjL | i'm saying | 03:32 |
| LjL | get the spike protein | 03:32 |
| LjL | inject it | 03:32 |
| de-facto | dTal, yes and more diversity in antibody populations | 03:32 |
| LjL | but inject MORE THAN ONE VARIANT of it | 03:32 |
| lastshell | ahhh | 03:33 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, they are the same so far | 03:33 |
| Trippy72894 | i see | 03:33 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, "updated" vaccines haven't yet finished trials. Moderna is developing one for Beta, Pfizer/BNT one for Delta, and now the EU has requested that they develop one for Omicron | 03:33 |
| de-facto | LjL, thats what i keep repeating with multivalent vaccines, a cocktail of all relevant variants (in terms of prevalence) | 03:33 |
| LjL | i know de-facto, it's just that clearly what i meant wasn't getting across | 03:33 |
| Trippy72894 | i understand | 03:33 |
| lastshell | thank you LjL now I also understand | 03:34 |
| Trippy72894 | we're sure keeping LjL busy | 03:34 |
| LjL | i have nothing to do :P | 03:34 |
| Trippy72894 | thank you! :) | 03:34 |
| LjL | well actually i was trying to make a Zotero command for Brainstorm | 03:34 |
| Trippy72894 | was this channel quiet before I showed up? | 03:34 |
| LjL | but i started it because i wanted to show you that paper, so... | 03:34 |
| lastshell | the channel is pretty active | 03:34 |
| * LjL scrolls up | 03:34 | |
| dTal | chasing the variants seems distinctly less useful with Omicron | 03:34 |
| LjL | yeah it was being pretty quiet | 03:34 |
| Trippy72894 | ah good. | 03:34 |
| de-facto | .title https://investors.biontech.de/static-files/47b4131a-0545-4a0b-a353-49b3a1d01789 would the graphs at page 9 not suggest exactly that (broadening of the antibody affinity spectrum)? | 03:35 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.biontech.de: PowerPoint-Präsentation | 03:35 |
| de-facto | pVNT50 titer BNT162b2 21d after 2nd dose: Wuhan=155, Omicron=6, Beta=36 and 28d after 3rd dose: Wuhan=398(2.6x), Omicron=154(25.6x), Beta=191(5.3x) | 03:35 |
| de-facto | <de-facto> the graph show how much a serum can be diluted until it only neutralized 50% of the pseudovirus | 03:35 |
| dTal | since a) we obviously can't keep up, and b) new variants can emerge from any point in the virus's evolutionary history | 03:35 |
| Trippy72894 | well, the best news I've heard here is that we might get a good vaccine that really nails all of this | 03:35 |
| Trippy72894 | i hop we do | 03:35 |
| dTal | so for example a delta-targeted vaccine could be *worse* against omicron than the original vaccine | 03:36 |
| LjL | dTal, Omicron still has a bunch of mutations that other variants also have | 03:36 |
| LjL | i don't think we need to be targeting the *exact* variant that's circulating | 03:36 |
| LjL | but we need to let the immune system know there's more than one variant, and the "main" mutations around | 03:36 |
| LjL | dTal, a Delta-targeted vaccine would generally be given to people who have also received the prior vaccine. or if not, it should be mixed (multivalent) | 03:36 |
| de-facto | dTal, well any part of the virus history that still is "alive" aka in circulation somewhere, that we did not have a dense history of sequences is our fault of not collecting samples and sequencing where that Omicron history did take place, so aligning it with the phylogenetic tree that is known to us may just indicate that it evolved incognito | 03:37 |
| LjL | can't install pyzotero, whoops. i'm afraid my shoddy python 2 setup really is at the end of the line | 03:40 |
| de-facto | ...if we only are able to connect it with some ancestors in the very past of it | 03:40 |
| * LjL restarts the bot and hope it ain't all broken now | 03:40 | |
| lastshell | LjL r u using docker or python virtualenv ? | 03:40 |
| LjL | lastshell, a venv using poetry | 03:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): 2020.04 (another one I forgot to add): Remember the obsession with antibody tests and seroprevalence in April 2020, driven by this unfounded idea some large % of people got COVID without any symptoms? I didn't want to say it, but it was a dumb press [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1472400146323296260 | 04:00 |
| oerheks | Dutch gov wants to drop 15 min waiting after the jab, so it speeds up 5x https://nos.nl/liveblog/2410089-omt-wil-af-van-wachttijd-na-prik-burgemeesters-steunen-maatregelen | 04:01 |
| oerheks | i disagree | 04:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Peru: +1856 cases (now 2.3 million), +34 deaths (now 202154), +103222 tests (now 21.1 million) since 11 hours ago | 04:02 |
| LjL | oerheks, UK has already (or at least my friend wasn't told to wait today) | 04:04 |
| LjL | it would only speed it up if waiting is the bottleneck... | 04:05 |
| de-facto | oerheks, why not increase "cooldown" space 5-fold instead? | 04:14 |
| de-facto | adverse events should be rare enough that not more personnel would be required to supervise | 04:14 |
| de-facto | they usually use some center or gym etc, so space should not really be a constraint (if they can provide enough air circulation etc) | 04:17 |
| de-facto | or employ concepts like drive in with parking lots | 04:17 |
| de-facto | betelgeuse9, fix your dualstack connection please | 04:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Omicron cases doubling in 1.5-3 days in areas with local spread: WHO → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/omicron-cases-doubling-in-1-5-3-days-in-areas-with-local-spread-who-7679762/ | 04:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A reporter risked her life to show the world Covid in Wuhan. Now she may not survive jail. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjnhwf/a_reporter_risked_her_life_to_show_the_world/ | 04:28 |
| LjL | i'm thinking, to our general sentiment, things like Delta and Omicron are much worse than other "variants of concern" | 04:31 |
| LjL | uff | 04:31 |
| LjL | what should we call them? Variants of Despair? | 04:32 |
| LjL | the naming competition start now | 04:32 |
| ublx | betelgeuse variant exhibits some immune escape | 04:32 |
| minthos | variants of consternation | 04:33 |
| LjL | ublx, nah i'm clearly just a bad B-cell | 04:33 |
| LjL | %title https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210107-the-432-year-old-manual-on-social-distancing | 04:58 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.bbc.com: The 432-year-old manual on social distancing - BBC Future | 04:58 |
| LjL | "People allowed to go out must bear with them a cane measuring six feet long. It is mandatory that people keep this distance from one another." | 04:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Netherlands ‘going into lockdown again’ to curb omicron → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/netherlands-going-into-lockdown-again-to-curb-omicron-7679807/ | 05:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +27654 cases (now 6.8 million) since 12 hours ago — Japan: +195 cases (now 1.7 million), +33689 tests (now 28.8 million) since a day ago — India: +7081 cases (now 34.7 million), +264 deaths (now 477422), +1211977 tests (now 664.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 05:35 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "also think about what this..." <- The counter-view by those who say we must not take any remedial action that will affect he economy is that somehow the virus spreading uncontrolled will itself have no negative effect on the economy in areas such as hospitality. It's patently false and a pretty flawed argument but it largely persists a lot over here in the UK and I think also in the US. Not sure if people are a bit more capable of | 05:52 |
| Dredd | critically thinking it through in Europe and elsewhere though? | 05:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 844: COVID, children, and boosters with Paul Offit: Paul Offit returns to TWiV to discuss new CDC guidance on J&J vaccine, why children should be immunized against COVID-19, and whether or not booster doses are scientifically justified. → https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-844/ | 06:12 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "they usually use some center..." <- That's not true in the UK. My vaccination walk in was in a relatively small retail unit in the trendy shopping centre nearby. The vast majority of the appointments bookable to me were in random small pharmacies all over the place around the city. Most of the large areas setup / taken over during the pandemic's early days have been given back to their current uses. We shut down all our large overflow | 06:17 |
| Dredd | hospital places too | 06:17 |
| Dredd | > For most of that time, the city wasn't in full lockdown, but people were expected to self-isolate for 40 days if a member of their household was suspected of having the plague, and taken to hospital. This is where the word "quarantine" comes from – "quaranta giorni" means "40 days" in Italian. | 06:24 |
| Dredd | Very interesting! | 06:24 |
| sdfgsdfg | does the rapid antigen test show if you're infected with omicron | 06:27 |
| Dredd | I believe they are supposed to yeah | 06:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Jersey, United States: +7644 cases (now 1.3 million), +33 deaths (now 28708) since 23 hours ago — Lombardy, Italy: +6119 cases (now 992464), +24 deaths (now 34718) since 23 hours ago — New South Wales, Australia: +2558 cases (now 97558) since 23 hours ago — Campania, Italy: +2256 cases (now 515077), +6 deaths (now 8335) since 23 hours ago | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Loud Silenced Doctors: When the history of this pandemic is written, contrarian doctors divorced from patient care won't be seen as its principle victims because YouTube removed their video, because someone called them "fringe," or because someone put up posters reminding them of words they said. [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/muzzled/ | 06:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Experts sound alarm over omicron as border control measures near limit in Japan → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjqdib/experts_sound_alarm_over_omicron_as_border/ | 07:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Some Southeast Asian tourism spots reopen, but arrivals are down → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/some-southeast-asian-tourism-spots-reopen-but-arrivals-are-down-7679927/ | 07:27 |
| minthos | they're an island nation, they could close the border completely | 07:31 |
| minthos | (japan) | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: On cruise ships, omicron puts safety protocols to the test → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/on-cruise-ships-omicron-puts-safety-protocols-to-the-test-7679965/ | 07:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: As COVID surges, experts say US booster effort is far behind → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/as-covid-surges-experts-say-us-booster-effort-is-far-behind-7679934/ | 07:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 19, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rjs3at/daily_discussion_thread_december_19_2021/ | 09:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Majority of hospitalisations in London are incidental admissions. → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/rjs9zt/majority_of_hospitalisations_in_london_are/ | 10:45 |
| darsie | What does incidental admission mean? | 10:54 |
| darsie | i.e. they incidentally tested positive after admission for other conditions. | 10:56 |
| oerheks | Incidental admission is an admission made in connection with admission of some other fact. https://definitions.uslegal.com/i/incidental-admission/ | 10:57 |
| darsie | mhm. thx | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Oman: +60 cases (now 304843) since 2 days ago | 10:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: huisdoktertim #ikvaccineer (@huisdoktertim): Hoe werken antistoffen ? Is dit het enige stuk van je immuunsysteem? Waarom krijg je antistoffen van booster en helpt boosteren ook als antistoffen minder goed werken? En hoe zit dat nou met bijwerking vaccin zoals gevreesde myocarditis ? [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/huisdoktertim/status/1472498233767350273 | 11:04 |
| Tuvix | I'm still shaking my head about the myocarditis hype, like that tweet. Yes, it's a (quite rare) side-effect from vaccines, but it's a far more common (still rather rare) side-effect from catching COVID-19 :\ | 11:10 |
| Timvde | Tuvix: Do you know Dutch? | 11:15 |
| Timvde | The translation is: "How do antibodies work? Is this the only part o your immune system? Why does a booster produce antibodies and does it also help when antibodies are less effective? And what's the deal with the vaccine side effects like the dreaded myocarditis? Explained in language for common people" | 11:18 |
| Tuvix | No, but the meaning is fairly clear through online translators on that. Yes, they can get some things wrong too | 11:18 |
| Tuvix | My point is really that if somoene's big concern with vaccines is myocarditis, they're broadly speaking BETTER off getting vaccinated, since they have a far smaller risk of that side-effect from vaccination than from catching the disease. | 11:19 |
| Tuvix | I don't know if there's been a newer study, but this one was pretty conclusive; If anything, Omicron only seems to make it more likely the unvaccinated not yet infected are (or get re-infected.) https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm | 11:20 |
| Timvde | Tuvix: agreed, which is explained in the thread | 11:21 |
| Timvde | https://twitter.com/huisdoktertim/status/1472500899788505096 | 11:22 |
| Tuvix | Ah, gotcha. In that case I'll still shake my head at the hype, but neat to see some attempts to explain science that isn't a "boring" paper :) | 11:22 |
| Timvde | Myocarditis: yes, it is true. Especially in teenagers, myocarditis happens more after taking the vaccine. There's no use in denying that. It happens, but very rarely. But: myocarditis happens a lot more after COVID infection than after COVID vaccination. | 11:23 |
| Timvde | (next tweet) What does that mean? Being infected with corona is worse (higher chance on myocarditis) than taking the vaccine. And pretty much everyone will get it at some point. It looks like 2/3 of primary school kids already got it. So if you want to avoid myocarditis, you need to get vaccinated. | 11:24 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and going by that CDC report, .146% of COVID patients seem to present with that condition (I think it's a bit less in youth, but don't have that stat handy. I *think* around 14/100k from memory though.) | 11:25 |
| Tuvix | Still, given the national population of youth, that's still a lot of incidence. | 11:25 |
| Timvde | My mother told me this weekend that if I was still a kid, she probably wouldn't have me vaccinated | 11:26 |
| Timvde | I was very disappointed | 11:26 |
| Timvde | (note: she took both doses and has an appointment for her booster, she just doesn't think it's worth it for kids) | 11:27 |
| Tuvix | Ultimately parents/guardians need to get info from their pediatric care doctors. I suspect a lot of the overplayed concern is not coming from doctors though. | 11:27 |
| Timvde | There's also a lot of cherry-picking going on | 11:33 |
| Timvde | "A friend of mine knows a doctor who isn't vaccinated, and he must know!" | 11:33 |
| Timvde | Totally ignoring all other doctors who are | 11:33 |
| Tuvix | Sure, and I've heard some reporting that has noted not just that trend, but that many countries are struggling to deal with "bad" doctors since enforcement is often slow if it comes at all to discourage that borderline misinformation. | 11:34 |
| Timvde | And if they lose their medical license because of it, it's "censorship" and "they don't want us to know the truth" | 11:35 |
| Timvde | There's no winning the battle against misinformation | 11:35 |
| Tuvix | Some are willing to listen to new information, studies, and so on. The ones that aren't will just find another excuse though even if you convince them otherwise. | 11:36 |
| Tuvix | Say someone didn't get their child vaccinated due to myocarditis for example. Let's even assume they reviewed some of the scientific literature with their doctor and agreed with the findings. They could just then refuse on new grounds, and it's back to square-1 again. | 11:37 |
| Tuvix | It really boils down to: are you using science to arrive at a conclusion, or are you cherry-picking science to back the conclusion you've already arrived at. | 11:38 |
| Timvde | Yep | 11:38 |
| Timvde | Although I sort of have to apply the same technique in the other direction just to stay sane | 11:38 |
| Tuvix | I wasn't sold on masks (especially the cheap cloth ones) early on in the pandemic, but I've fully changed my view and have a good mask with replacable filters now. | 11:38 |
| Timvde | There's so much bullshit going around that I dismiss a lot of it without investigating the sources because they sound implausible based on my current understanding | 11:39 |
| Timvde | (it of course depends on the source making the claim - a known antivaxxer vs a reputable news source) | 11:39 |
| Tuvix | Yea, I try to have a bit of variety in my news & podcast feed. I can only take so much info at once, but it's sometimes interesting to hear differing views on say protection from (verified!) prior infection vs. vaccines. Plenty of legit debate there because we still don't really know or have good long-term tracking of that. | 11:40 |
| Timvde | I use disposable surgical masks usually, or an FFP2 mask if I feel uncomfortable (e.g. public transport) | 11:41 |
| Tuvix | Though I'd argue there the lack of good testing makes that a hard premise to get great answers on; let's face it, if you got infected without vaccination, you probably also aren't doing a good job self-monitoring or testing & reporting. | 11:41 |
| Timvde | Yes, but "prior infection yields better protection than a vaccine" never was implausible for me, the big issue there is the prior infection, lol | 11:41 |
| Timvde | It's more "If I get infected for the first time tomorrow, do I want to be vaccinated or not?" | 11:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: London Mayor: Inevitable we will have more COVID restrictions → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjtzg8/london_mayor_inevitable_we_will_have_more_covid/ | 11:42 |
| Timvde | Or even "If I was infected last month, will a vaccine boost my protection or not?" | 11:42 |
| Tuvix | That seems a prety clear answer, at least if you use antibody levels as your metric. | 11:43 |
| Timvde | I think in both cases the answer is "take the vaccine" | 11:43 |
| minthos | over a long enough timeline anti-vaxxers will die from diseases that there are vaccines for | 11:43 |
| sdfgsdfg | we just need the third shot that's definitely needed. | 11:43 |
| Timvde | Maybe wait a couple more months in the second case | 11:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +27655 cases (now 6.8 million) since 19 hours ago | 11:43 |
| sdfgsdfg | closer you get to death when youre infected, better and longer term protection you will have in the long run, your immune system will remember it like there's no tomorrow lol | 11:46 |
| sdfgsdfg | probably | 11:46 |
| sdfgsdfg | I mean there's no evidence that suggests otherwise | 11:46 |
| Tuvix | A lack of information doesn't really suggest correlation either way. Re-infection is a thing, and with existing/future varients that seems a poor thing to rely on. | 11:49 |
| minthos | or, the closer you get to death the more irreversible damage has been done to your organs and the easier it is for the next round to finish you off | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): • A call to fellow-journalists to do better at featuring women's voices in our coverage of Covid. This is something I strive to do in my stories, but I've certainly fallen short far too often kcl.ac.uk/news/women-hav… → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1472518945764749313 | 11:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | death rate of the 25 year olds: 0,01% compared to the death rate of 80 year olds: 15%, almost all of them had comorbidities. | 11:55 |
| minthos | good guy covid thinning out the herd after we defeated all the big predators | 11:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Treating some COVID-19 patients at home, with remote monitoring of oxygen levels, seems eminently sensible to me.Good to see the NHS being fleet-footed in its attempt to avoid a crisis. twitter.com/shaunlintern/s… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1472519742812471304 | 12:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): An observation to finish:A response I often get from women experts on Covid when seeking comment: "thanks, but I don't think I have much to add to what has already been said"From blokes? Not so muchPlease give us quotes, you have just as much to [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1472522864951762945 | 12:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Borders: Germany introduces two-week quarantine for travellers from UK → https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-introduces-two-week-quarantine-for-travellers-from-uk/ | 12:20 |
| xx | work from home? More like "being at the hospital, from home". | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Libya: +726 cases (now 381749), +9 deaths (now 5598), +5364 tests (now 2.0 million) since 2 days ago — Nepal: +133 cases (now 825736), +1 deaths (now 11573), +4831 tests (now 4.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:33 |
| Arsanerit | Is it a realistic idea that Omicron is the final major wave of the pandemic, before reaching an endemic situation? https://twitter.com/EckerleIsabella/status/1469458946800988165 | 12:35 |
| minthos | it may have achieved peak infectiousness so if it teaches us to not breathe each others' exhaled virus particles, maybe | 12:37 |
| minthos | that seems like a big if considering humans | 12:37 |
| Arsanerit | and does a wave that rise quickly also fall off quickly / last less long? | 12:39 |
| minthos | not necessarily | 12:39 |
| minthos | it seems fond of reinfecting those previously infected | 12:39 |
| Timvde | minthos: we also thought that of delta | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: The pandemic has shown a new way to reduce climate change: scrap in-person meetings & conventions. Moving a professional conference completely online reduces its carbon footprint by 94%, and shifting it to a hybrid model, with no more than half of [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/rjv2i1/the_pandemic_has_shown_a_new_way_to_reduce/ | 12:48 |
| Timvde | As long as omicron hasn't reached measles-level of infectiousness, I'm not gonna claim that its at its peak | 12:50 |
| Timvde | eh, as long as the virus* | 12:50 |
| Timvde | I guess omicron won't change anymore, it'd get a different name then :P | 12:50 |
| Dredd | I'm holding out for the Optimus Prime variant | 12:51 |
| Dredd | It's the one that defeats all other variants, competitively inhibiting them but actually makes us healthier instead of sick | 12:52 |
| minthos | let's hope we don't get a decepticon variant | 12:52 |
| Dredd | I would expect an ongoing harrying from the Megatron variant | 12:53 |
| Dredd | But since Optimus Prime variant posses the All-Spike we don't need to worry 🤔 | 12:53 |
| minthos | I just want an excuse to unironically wear a papr in public | 12:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Hits ‘keep coming’: Hospitals struggle as Covid-19 beds fill → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/hits-keep-coming-hospitals-struggle-as-covid-19-beds-fill-7680274/ | 12:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uganda: +297 cases (now 129061), +1 deaths (now 3273), +6680 tests (now 2.1 million) since 23 hours ago | 13:04 |
| xx | honestly I wouldn't mind if wearing mouth+nose coverings became as normal as wearing pants | 13:17 |
| Tuvix | At least when one is sick to help protect those around them, sure. Randall put something similar very well: https://xkcd.com/2457 | 13:24 |
| minthos | thais are pretty good at masking up in general, I think east asians are too from what I've heard | 13:26 |
| minthos | for pollution as well as sniffles | 13:26 |
| Tuvix | A practical approach to both, yea. Sure beats an approach driven more by politics by comparison… | 13:27 |
| xx | I very much enjoy no longer breathing in someone else's exhales | 13:31 |
| xx | as well as carbon particulates, dust, insects, ... | 13:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | wow I didn't know astrazeneca jab was a chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored vaccine. How did I even got to this after chain researching viral conjunctivitis and adenoviruses... | 13:37 |
| xx | sputnik is the one that uses human Ad | 13:40 |
| sdfgsdfg | whoaa....... Many of the most widely known viral diseases are caused by viruses in Riboviria, which includes coronaviruses, ebola virus, HIV, influenza viruses, and the rabies virus. These viruses and others have been prominent throughout history, including Tobacco mosaic virus, which was the first virus to be discovered. Many reverse transcribing viruses notably become integrated into the genome of their host as part of their replication cycle. As | 13:44 |
| sdfgsdfg | a result of that, it is estimated that about 7–8% of the human genome originates from these viruses. | 13:44 |
| xx | 70%-80% of human genome is absolute bullshit anyway that we could live perfectly without | 13:45 |
| xx | just evolutionary baggage with no pressure to remove it | 13:46 |
| sdfgsdfg | that reminds me of the matrix quote agent smith comparing human behavior to viral replication patterns | 13:46 |
| minthos | wait until you discover how much we depend on dna that isn't even in our genome | 13:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Two practical measures that could be taken to reduce the impact of Omicron without the need for stringent restrictions: - Clear guidance to take an LFT immediately before meeting anyone outside your household - Reduce isolation to seven days, provided [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1472546181515554825 | 13:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +285 cases (now 744137), +310797 tests (now 106.8 million) since 13 hours ago | 14:06 |
| de-facto[m] | In UK Omicron dominates with more than 50% contribution to daily new infections | 14:15 |
| Tuvix | It'll be interesting to watch what happens to the US next with both that trend and the impact on the hospital system, already quite stressed in areas thanks to Delta & winter. | 14:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron Variant Multiplies 70 times more than Delta in the Body → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjwgb4/omicron_variant_multiplies_70_times_more_than/ | 14:23 |
| blobbs | @Brainstorm ooohh | 14:27 |
| xx | blobbs: brainstorm is a bot | 14:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +28643 cases (now 6.8 million) since 21 hours ago | 14:31 |
| genera | still deserves respect! | 14:32 |
| xx | genera: you're just trying to create favourable logs for yourself for when the robot overlords take over, aren't you :p | 14:32 |
| genera | how did you tell! | 14:32 |
| xx | because I do the same :D | 14:33 |
| xx | I ❤️ robots | 14:33 |
| minthos | it will be interesting to see if the robots save us from ourselves or just save themselves from us | 14:35 |
| finely[m] | <Timvde> "There's no winning the battle..." <- A huge amount of it could be stopped by somehow killing the social media algorithms that prioritise spreading "contentious" material. | 14:40 |
| blobbs | a government bot to increase fear? | 14:42 |
| blobbs | Oh, yet. Get the jab and you will (not) be save from Omicron. | 14:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): 3) @SMHopkins of UKHSA who has been a consistent and clear communicator throughout the pandemic and has expertly led countless technical media briefings that have left us all infinitely more informed → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1472563337963655168 | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): 4) How on earth did I write this list without including @zeynep, who has time and again been right about Covid where others have been wrong, and is probably my single most recommended follow on Twitter (both for Covid and everything else) → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1472563339284918278 | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Senegal: +20 cases (now 74161), +2102 tests (now 901722) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +211 cases (now 1.6 million), +1 deaths (now 28048), +17332 tests (now 11.3 million) since a day ago | 15:09 |
| finely[m] | <blobbs> "a government bot to increase..." <- A Russian disinfo worker exploiting existing divisions in the west? | 15:10 |
| finely[m] | "A trove of internal Facebook documents reveals that the social media giant has privately and meticulously tracked real-world harms exacerbated by its platforms, ignored warnings from its employees about the risks of their design decisions and exposed vulnerable communities around the world to a cocktail of dangerous content." | 15:12 |
| finely[m] | https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/10/25/what-are-the-facebook-papers/ | 15:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Just a reminder that we’ve known about human coronavirus for over 70 years now. It didn’t come from a lab in china → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rjxjqt/just_a_reminder_that_weve_known_about_human/ | 15:21 |
| Tuvix | finely[m]: It doesn't help that some people view (parts of) facebook as a proper source of news, compounded with an often low ability to apply critical thinking to the results. | 15:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Pessimists Archive (@PessimistsArc): ❝The question being raised is whether it might not be better to... leT chilDrEn geT MEAslES aNd DeVElOp a NaTURAL LiFe-TiMe IMmUNiTY❞ pessimistsarchive.org/list/vaccines/… → https://twitter.com/PessimistsArc/status/1472575698313302028 | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): @jburnmurdoch Thank you so much @jburnmurdoch. In yet another pandemic period that feels particularly tough at this time of year, this is really touching and meaningful. We are all in a brighter place because of your graphs & thoughtful threads - thank you [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1472580763195523078 | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Paris cancels New Year fireworks as Omicron fears deepen → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rjyac4/paris_cancels_new_year_fireworks_as_omicron_fears/ | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): No words are needed when you put it in a picture like this!dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vacci… pic.twitter.com/0Yei3D0pv3 → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1472585702827339783 | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6605 cases (now 1.9 million), +6 deaths (now 30094) since 23 hours ago | 16:36 |
| Tuvix | Hmm, that Wisconsin DHS data is interesting to poke at. There's a by-month (since Feb, so basically when vaccines were just beginning to become available) view of cases/hospitalizations/deaths broken down by fully vs non-fully vaccinated. | 16:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: London, with Britain’s largest surge, goes on emergency footing against Omicron → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/london-britain-emergency-footing-omicron-7680694/ | 16:47 |
| Tuvix | Also interesting to compare the change in ratios between fully vs non-fully vaccinated (hosp. or death) as a factor of time. | 16:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Retraction Watch: Elsevier subjects entire special issue of journal on COVID-19 to an expression of concern: Elsevier has subjected an entire special issue of a journal — including a paper claiming COVID-19 vaccines kill five times [... want %more?] → https://retractionwatch.com/2021/12/19/elsevier-subjects-entire-special-issue-of-journal-on-covid-19-to-an-expression-of-concern/ | 17:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Yes I know - we still don’t know exactly what this means for hospital admissions and deaths. But this volume of cases, at least, is likely to be very disruptive with so many people in isolation. → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1472599616570933254 | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Researchers develop an RNA-based breath test to detect COVID-19 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rjzxhr/researchers_develop_an_rnabased_breath_test_to/ | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +13293 cases (now 3.0 million), +48 deaths (now 20929) since 16 hours ago | 17:38 |
| de-facto | .tr <de " Die Einstufung des Vereinigten Königreichs von Großbritannien und Nordirland inkl. der Isle of Man sowie aller Kanalinseln und aller britischen Überseegebiete als Virusvariantengebiet ist wirksam ab Montag, 20. Dezember 2021 um 0:00 Uhr" | 17:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: "The classification of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland including the Isle of Man as well as all Channel Islands and all British overseas territories as virus variant areas is effective from Monday, December 20, 2021 at 12:00 a.m." (MyMemory, Google) | 17:41 |
| de-facto | NOT before that. | 17:42 |
| de-facto | because Omicron complies with regulations. of course. | 17:42 |
| Tuvix | Sure. Timezones are hard, but the virus is clever. It'll figure it out! | 17:42 |
| de-facto | actually this would be hilarious if not so tragic, the incapability of humans to deal with something like this | 17:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bob Wachter (@Bob_Wachter): Omicron raises an urgent math problem for epi world & @CDCgov– Solve for X:For vaxxed person w/ Omicron, "X"=minimum # of days of isolation that optimizes limiting spread & keeping economy going, assuming rapid test is neg on days X-1 & X.(Hint: I doubt [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter/status/1472605069388357633 | 17:44 |
| Tuvix | My ISS-height view of it all is that it was going to be quite the mess anyway, but handling at both government and individual levels has made it far worse than it had to be. | 17:44 |
| de-facto | now its weekend, i am sure Omicron will only use working days to spread | 17:45 |
| Tuvix | Local here, bars have been packed, and there's a lot of disregard for rules even in the counties with a friendlier view to vaccination & following local guidance. | 17:46 |
| Tuvix | For every family or group of people who follow guidance, there's another out at the local bar, unvaccinated, during case-peaks. | 17:46 |
| Tuvix | I picked up some to-go from a supper-club during lockdown. Locals were "waiting for food to go" with beers at the bar. They also just ate out of their to-go containers over another beer. You know, while they waited… | 17:48 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: what do you think of the idea that omicron might be the final major wave of the pandemic, before reaching an endemic situation? https://twitter.com/EckerleIsabella/status/1469458946800988165 | 17:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +24303 cases (now 5.4 million), +97 deaths (now 135641), +566300 tests (now 130.4 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +81959 cases (now 11.4 million) since 23 hours ago | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Blog: India's Risky Plan Betting On A Mild Omicron → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/rk0t5r/blog_indias_risky_plan_betting_on_a_mild_omicron/ | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: There's no doubt, number of Omicron cases will go up in India: Dr Shahid Jameel → https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid2019/comments/rk0y4e/theres_no_doubt_number_of_omicron_cases_will_go/ | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Wisconsin: 'Our hospitals, without a doubt, are frankly underwater right now' Health experts sound the alarm as COVID cases spike → https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid2019/comments/rk12vy/wisconsin_our_hospitals_without_a_doubt_are/ | 18:22 |
| Tuvix | "I think it's more of another hype up of something, just to keep the masses controlled," said [a Wisconsin local] | 18:28 |
| Tuvix | Uh-huh. | 18:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Great job and organization; 77.000 10-11-year-olds (younger siblings were allowed) were vaccinated this weekend. Smooth running, little waiting time! 7-9 in January and 5-6 shortly after.reuters.com/world/europe/w… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1472619730993393664 | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Namibia: +1263 cases (now 138184), +1 deaths (now 3582), +9119 tests (now 837584) since 21 hours ago — Sierra Leone: +34 cases (now 6505) since 23 hours ago | 18:41 |
| Dredd | <de-facto> "now its weekend, i am sure..." <- Well that is what the cases always show 😉 | 18:43 |
| de-facto | lol :P | 18:43 |
| de-facto | indeed they do | 18:43 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, well yeah its an interesting idea, the question is what kind of immunity results from Omicron, does that neutralize mutants emerging from other prevalent varients such as Delta etc? | 18:45 |
| Dredd | It's always nice that covid gives us a week to sort out our changes | 18:46 |
| Dredd | Boris relies on it a lot | 18:46 |
| de-facto | or asked the other way around: why would we not have assumed similar about Delta and be proven wrong by Omicron (as it being seroevasive)? | 18:46 |
| Dredd | The mildness argument maybe? | 18:47 |
| de-facto | huh? | 18:47 |
| Dredd | Omicron being allegedly mild Vs delta being severe | 18:47 |
| de-facto | assumed that would be the case (i am not convinced), what would you derive from that? | 18:48 |
| Dredd | I mean for it to be endemic and life returning to normality mildness is kind of required | 18:49 |
| Dredd | If it is still dangerous we won't tolerate it still existing and will keep trying to get rid of it | 18:50 |
| Dredd | Or mitigate it | 18:50 |
| Dredd | Which puts a long term selection pressure on milder variants I hope, since we will tolerate them 😂 | 18:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Recruitment of highly cytotoxic CD8+ T cell receptors in mild SARS-CoV-2 infection → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rk1mh8/recruitment_of_highly_cytotoxic_cd8_t_cell/ | 18:51 |
| de-facto | the hope would be that with each re-challenge the immune system would become more adept in dealing with it, hence hopefully every additional infection showing milder and milder symptoms | 18:52 |
| Arsanerit | eventually something will happen | 18:53 |
| de-facto | UK is bravely testing out that thesis for us, lets have a very close look at their hospital occupancy | 18:55 |
| Dredd | https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rjwy27/woman_gets_fired_for_refusing_to_go_to_work_with/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share | 18:55 |
| Dredd | Wtf | 18:55 |
| Arsanerit | And let's see how long their omicron wave lasts. If it grows so rapidly, it can't continue growing for very long. | 18:56 |
| de-facto | such businesses should get closed down | 18:56 |
| Dredd | It's not even legal in UK law | 18:56 |
| Dredd | You can self verify as sick | 18:56 |
| Dredd | And unless it's for more than 5 working days they can't require evidence or whatever | 18:57 |
| Dredd | *self certify | 18:57 |
| de-facto | well Arsanerit that depends on when pre-existing immunity thresholds are reached, and if Omicron really is that sero-evasive (with reinfection capabilitiy) it would see a largely naive population, hence may be back to square one in terms of transmissibility etc | 18:58 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: I meant in general; the faster the growth, the earlier the growth hits whatever factors will limit the growth. | 18:58 |
| de-facto | yeah but i meant in this case the growth may be that fast due to it seeing mostly naive individuals, hence it may need longer time to hit limiting factors such as pre-existing immunity (that would have to result from Omicron infection= | 18:59 |
| Arsanerit | I guess we'll find out how bad the symptoms of individuals are who have antibodies for other variants. | 19:00 |
| de-facto | i guess less bad, because 80% of T-cell epitopes are conserved even with Omicron | 19:00 |
| Arsanerit | Then maybe the "omicron is less bad" thingy may be true only because by now most people already have antibodies, either from previous infections or from vaccinations? | 19:04 |
| de-facto | that at least would make both sense and hope | 19:06 |
| de-facto | it would be bad news for non-vaccinated though as they may have severe Omicron progressions, we simply do not know yet, soon we will have statistics on that | 19:07 |
| Arsanerit | Do we have any estimated what % of unvaccinated people have antibodies from previous infections? | 19:07 |
| de-facto | good question, we had if there were efforts for dedicating some testing capacity (both antigen and antibody) towards representative randomly chosen samplings in the population | 19:10 |
| xx | we'd have more reliable numbers on that if govs started accepting antibody levels as equivalent to vaccinations | 19:10 |
| de-facto | that too indeed | 19:11 |
| xx | in fact, accepting vaccinations, without knowing the resulting antibody levels, is a problem in my opinion | 19:11 |
| Tuvix | de-facto: I've stopped participating in a local club here with nearly-as-bad business practices. It's _very_ indoors and close-space contact for what they do. Earlier this year an unvaccinated staff tested positve (probably got it at his day-job) and we had to notify all customers around the facility. Owner refused to even ask our other club/staff to get tested, saying that "we can't ask them to do that" | 19:11 |
| xx | there likely are lots of vulnerable people out there, thinking they have high protection levels after 3 doses, but if they were tested it would be shown they have almost no protection | 19:11 |
| xx | yet those people are going out like everything is fine... | 19:11 |
| de-facto | or excusing vaccinated (or boosted) from testing duties, also completely stupid, because they already decided for vaccination/boosting etc and if a mutant may have developed the capability to circumvent such immunity it would be EXTRA important to: 1) test and get aware of its rise 2) test and end infection chains with it | 19:12 |
| Tuvix | Nevermind mutations; we already know both breakthrough cases among the vaccinated and re-infection amont the recovered are things. | 19:13 |
| Tuvix | Even if the case is mild-to-no-symptoms, it can still get passed along, including to the immunocompromised or those too young to yet be vaccinated by local guidelines or availability. | 19:14 |
| de-facto | we should just make testing mandatory for everyone on a regular basis, so that we know what is going on, closing the eyes and ignoring infections would not make them vanish | 19:14 |
| Tuvix | I've just accepted that I'll be wearing a good quality mask for any non-outdoor interactions in any setting I don't know for sure that 100% of the people are vaccinated. | 19:14 |
| xx | even if they are vaccinated, it doesn't mean that they can't spread it to you | 19:15 |
| xx | better wear a mask always | 19:15 |
| de-facto | i just do not go to restaurants, clubs etc anymore. honestly i hope they will vanish | 19:16 |
| xx | restaurants will likely transform into something where people only go to a few times in life, like for weddings/funerals/birthdays, instead of this thing where people go there every week/day | 19:18 |
| de-facto | yeah their time is over, sad for them but its how it is | 19:18 |
| Tuvix | Before the delta uptick I did a bit of in-person dining during off-hours. I stopped that about 4 months back though, doing just takeout as the hospital inpatient numbers around here have just kept rising. | 19:19 |
| de-facto | here some club owners directly understood that in early 2020 when they sold their establishments, others tried to survive for some time and ended in bankruptcy | 19:19 |
| Tuvix | This was back when the messaging was 2-doses was all you needed, and before delta really had taken off. | 19:19 |
| xx | I've ordered a lot of basic supplies over 2 years ago to not need to go out shopping at all | 19:20 |
| Tuvix | This place is a sports club, but something like half the staff are something between anti vax/mask to highly resistant. | 19:20 |
| xx | well, almost 2 years ago | 19:20 |
| imaginary | honestly i appreciate restaurants and clubs, it really sucks that i can't just go to one anymore | 19:20 |
| imaginary | or well, "can't" i guess | 19:20 |
| imaginary | Tuvix: yikes | 19:20 |
| Tuvix | One of the "experienced" instructors there even emailed the entire staff list in response/protest to masks being re-required (re: delta) to "warn" all the newer instructions that masks on our customers would cause them to pass out due to lack of oxygen (that last part he bolded.) This is of course all false information, but I stopped even trying to discuss matters after that. | 19:21 |
| Tuvix | Presumably that was some nonsense from the various online or inaccurate broadcast personalities that produce such absolutely nonsense as "news" | 19:22 |
| Tuvix | :( | 19:22 |
| Tuvix | Erm, warn the newer instructors* | 19:22 |
| de-facto | yeah some of the owners seek refuge in misinfo groups and then try to establish that nonsense in their businesses | 19:23 |
| Tuvix | This was juat a key regular, but the owner turns a blind eye to it all; I think she's afraid if she pushes back, they'll all stop showing up in protest (it's all-volunteer run) | 19:23 |
| Tuvix | Owner is vaccinated, but basically has zero care what anyone else does, staff or customers. | 19:24 |
| de-facto | if so with not caring about implementing concepts against contagion she also does obviously not care about preserving a sustainable future of her establishment | 19:25 |
| Tuvix | I mean, most of the members there don't seem to mind. | 19:25 |
| Tuvix | There's just enough signage about masks (which is not followed anyway) that customers might be convinced there are actually protocols there. However, there aren't. | 19:26 |
| de-facto | hence their establishment will get known for spreading infections, something that is not good for sustaining business | 19:26 |
| Tuvix | I mean, if staff test positive they might notify customers again, but as I noted above they just don't test. | 19:26 |
| Tuvix | Can't test positive if you don't take a test. Clever, no? :( | 19:26 |
| de-facto | i just wont contribute any money in such establishments, i hope they vanish | 19:27 |
| Tuvix | It used to be masks were required indoors, but then this state (in line with the US gov't changes) moved to masks optional for fully vaccinated people. On the 2nd day of the rule change, all the unvaccinated also took off thier masks, realizing they could "blend in" with the vax'd. | 19:29 |
| de-facto | yeah they just can not be trusted with implementing sane hygiene concepts, because they just dont care, hence a world without them would be better | 19:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6704 cases (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago | 19:31 |
| Tuvix | Heh, they're not going anywhere. I just won't visit, since it's a covid-sharing box. The clubhouse is all closed up (winter here, so recirculating HVAC in a fairly small building) and they have ~25 minute rides out, in a tiny vehicle all breathing the same are. | 19:31 |
| Tuvix | In _theory_ they're supposed to all be masking then too, but I assure you are not. | 19:31 |
| Tuvix | Oh well, maybe by 2023 it'll be safe to rejoin such clubs again. | 19:32 |
| de-facto | i wont rejoin, because of the behavior they demonstrate right now | 19:33 |
| de-facto | even when COVID is over | 19:33 |
| Tuvix | Oh, and just in case you didn't think that expose-our-customer story could get worse, that customer was a paediatric care nurse, and this was before the under-12's could get vaccinated here. | 19:36 |
| Tuvix | That info was in the next weekly all-staff email, not that anyone (besides me) seemed to care. | 19:36 |
| Dredd | <xx> "in fact, accepting vaccinations,..." <- Immune response is a lot more complicated to measure than just serum antibodies at time T so not sure absolutely how useful it would be. They're used a lot as a model for neutralising effect on the virus in vitro because it's easy to do and compare | 19:37 |
| Tuvix | Right, some vaccinations are good for either life or measured in the decades; I don't think that's so much antibody levels as it is long-term protection. T-cell memory can matter a lot more in those applications. | 19:38 |
| de-facto | btw interesting that this weekend in ALL major locations the COVIDIOTS gathered simultaneously, obviously their scheduling is coordinated | 19:39 |
| de-facto | in Europe at least | 19:39 |
| Dredd | Maybe they just gather every weekend 😂 | 19:43 |
| de-facto | not really | 19:44 |
| Tuvix | I don't wish the effect of smallpox on anyone, but I wouldn't mind if COVID-19 produced those boils on the skin. Then vanity would encourage people to get vaccinated and follow other prevention measures. | 19:45 |
| de-facto | if only people knew how their lung would look like after COVID | 19:45 |
| Tuvix | That doesn't tend to help wrt. say smoking. | 19:45 |
| de-facto | i mean if it can be seen on X-rays even it must be quite a significant change | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | Right, but that won't impact your social life, short of landing you in the hospital or morgue (in which case that solves all the rest of your social obligations too, I suppose) | 19:47 |
| de-facto | yep indeed | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Well it certainly looks as though Gauteng, the epicentre of Omicron in South Africa, is past its peak of new cases. At least for now. twitter.com/rajeev_the_kin… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1472638893593870344 | 19:48 |
| de-facto | ^^ interesting, what part of population in Gauteng was required to be infected for that? | 19:49 |
| de-facto | id like to see relative numbers | 19:49 |
| Tuvix | Remember, they're also in springtime. The global-north could be a lot different given both flu-like illnesses and delta priming things in a bad way too. | 19:50 |
| Tuvix | I listen to medic dispatch here, and it's not uncommon for either of the 2 main hospitals to indicate they're on "trauma divert" for several weeks now. | 19:51 |
| Tuvix | Just because they're a half-mild from where that car crash occurred, they might not be able to take a new patient. | 19:51 |
| Tuvix | half-mile* | 19:51 |
| Dredd | I've got some sort of dry cough going on, I've woken up coughing several times in the last week | 19:58 |
| Dredd | But 3 lateral flow tests all were negative | 19:58 |
| Dredd | 🤷♂️ | 19:58 |
| xx | I coughed once today | 20:01 |
| LjL | i probably haven't coughed in the past 24 hours | 20:03 |
| LjL | which disease causes lack of coughing? | 20:03 |
| LjL | it must be a terrible one | 20:03 |
| spokojni[m] | Dredd That's why I smoke, can always blame smoking on coughing. | 20:13 |
| LjL | sensible | 20:14 |
| xx | why would anyone not kick that habit when there's a respiratory virus pandemic out there? | 20:14 |
| spokojni[m] | Why would I? | 20:14 |
| spokojni[m] | It's one of the rare enjoyments I have left in this life. | 20:14 |
| xx | because there are more fun drugs out there that don't fuck up your lungs | 20:14 |
| spokojni[m] | Well I smoke joints, like 10-15 joints per day, with tobacco. | 20:15 |
| spokojni[m] | Just a card filter, my teeths are stained. LOL | 20:15 |
| LjL | why would anyone not kick that habit when it's known to give me many types of cancer, COPD, and more crippling ailments? | 20:17 |
| Tuvix | xx: Coughed once? Hopefully a wet cough: https://xkcd.com/2279 ;) | 20:17 |
| LjL | i'm not sure i know the answer but it's probably the same | 20:17 |
| xx | Tuvix: incredibly wet. I don't salivate, so I just cough once on my food in order to cover it with mucus, then wait a bit for the food to dissolve, and then drink it up using a straw. | 20:21 |
| xx | the teleportation experiment did not go well | 20:21 |
| Tuvix | Heh, Randall should have just subcontracted you to do the mouseovers :) | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Ted (@armourfan1989): @FransPietersma @BartBRKSMA @matthijsgdj @IngeStolkenburg @talithamuusse @huisdoktertim Het is ook niet zozeer dat waar ik een probleem mee heb. Het op één hoop gooien van deze nieuwe en experimentele technieken met uitvoerig geteste en vertrouwde vaccins vind ik [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/armourfan1989/status/1472640974518210567 | 20:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mauritania: +56 cases (now 40083), +1 deaths (now 853), +1928 tests (now 538956) since 21 hours ago | 20:33 |
| rpifan | im really annoyed they wont approve novavax yet | 20:34 |
| rpifan | the real way out of the vacinne crisis is not to force ppl to take the current shit | 20:34 |
| rpifan | but to give ppl more choices | 20:34 |
| rpifan | i was reading an article that said at least 50 percent of the vaccine hesistsant ppl arent against the vaccine but scared of this mrna vaccine | 20:35 |
| rpifan | im gonan inclue myself in that | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New data posted @CDCgov thru November 20th:1. strong protection of vaccination vs infections2. the impact of their 2 month delay for recommending boosters for all adults: a 2.8-fold rise in cases covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra… in 17 jurisdictions pic.twitter.com/mJqfP8Fiya → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472650607538360322 | 20:35 |
| rpifan | if you give me a more traditional vaccine mix ill ake it | 20:35 |
| rpifan | with a lot less hesistance | 20:35 |
| Arsanerit | Novavax is not traditional? | 20:45 |
| Arsanerit | My colleague said he would take a inactivated vaccine type. | 20:46 |
| LjL | groan. https://twitter.com/mcmonkeymc/status/1472448978704809984 | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The evidence for all adults benefiting from boosters was unequivocal well before Omicron washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/… @PostOpinions w/ @mtosterholm pic.twitter.com/2yaGgexpZf → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472658515416084483 | 21:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Xi 'an reports hemorrhagic fever cases, but no need to panic as medical experts urge quick vaccinations → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rk4l05/xi_an_reports_hemorrhagic_fever_cases_but_no_need/ | 21:22 |
| oerheks | No lockdown before Christmas, Germany says | 21:27 |
| oerheks | first spend all you money, please | 21:27 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Report 49 - Growth, population distribution and immune escape of Omicron in England ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/EAVZIBK4 ) | 21:28 | |
| Arsanerit | Christmas is quasi right now | 21:35 |
| Arsanerit | and German has never had a lockdown at all | 21:35 |
| Arsanerit | as at the same time closing shops and restaurants is not ruled out | 21:35 |
| Arsanerit | Closing all schools, shops, restaurants etc. is not a lockdown. | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +48473 cases (now 8.7 million), +75 deaths (now 122478) since a day ago | 21:35 |
| oerheks | Yes it is.. | 21:35 |
| xx | lockdown is not a well defined term | 21:36 |
| Arsanerit | No, lockdown would mean people can't leave their homes. | 21:36 |
| Arsanerit | There have been some lockdowns in Germany, but only at night time or in very small areas. | 21:36 |
| xx | yeah, because covid sleeps during the day and is most active at night | 21:36 |
| Arsanerit | xx: which means Mr. Lauterback can easily escape almost whatever measures he introduces as saying "it's not a lockdown" :) | 21:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Denmark is an important window for tracking Omicron, w/ its extremely high testing rate (35/100K; 9X US) and high fully vaccinated rate (78%)Today's data (yes, weekend, nonetheless) are fairly encouraging newsnodes.com/country/DKMissing—hospitalizations, by [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472666838316171266 | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Anosmia and dysgeusia amongst COVID‐19 patients are associated with low levels of serum glucagon‐like peptide 1 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rk5eof/anosmia_and_dysgeusia_amongst_covid19_patients/ | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Denmark is also a world leader in sequencing the virusToday's @SSI_dk reportMost Omicron cases in age group 20-29Omicron hospitalizations increased by 30, 5 less in ICUfiles.ssi.dk/covid19/omikro… (in English) pic.twitter.com/YHE5NLfS8X → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472679237752528898 | 22:29 |
| yangmobi1e | What is the minimum timeframe between 2. and 3. dose of Pfizer-biontech? | 22:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Today's report on Omicron (vs yesterday)Hospitalizations increased from 85 to 104Deaths increased from 7 to 12 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472680372756303876 | 22:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6931 cases (now 1.9 million), +5 deaths (now 30097) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +13316 cases (now 3.0 million) since 22 hours ago | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Covid 19, now Omicron: Where do we go from here? @TheLancet "The USA provides a potent demonstration of the structural barriers and stymied progress in COVID-19 that can originate from political obstacles to health."thelancet.com/journals/lance… pic.twitter.com/5S7Oo3bTUb → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1472683903223689216 | 22:47 |
| rpifan | yea id take an inactivated vaccine as well | 22:49 |
| rpifan | well the first measure they should take is shut down offices | 22:50 |
| rpifan | an office is 100 times more deadly then a bar or club | 22:50 |
| rpifan | you spend at least 40+ hours a day in there | 22:50 |
| rpifan | its packed full of ppl | 22:50 |
| rpifan | offices are ridiculouos | 22:50 |
| sdfgsdfg | wasn't the media supposed to switch focus to hospitalization numbers at some point, when vaccination began or something | 22:54 |
| Dredd | <Arsanerit> "No, lockdown would mean people..." <- I don't know anywhere that has enforced a covid lockdown by that definition. | 22:59 |
| Arsanerit | Dredd: several places have done that | 23:12 |
| Arsanerit | Dredd: Spain, Melbourne, much of China. | 23:12 |
| Dredd | Ok I'll give you China 😛 | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Antibody-dependent enhancement of coronavirus → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rk6unn/antibodydependent_enhancement_of_coronavirus/ | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): This all looks promising, but omicron is not harmless! You are much better of with immunity; so get vaccinated. Together with data on reduced lung targetting and enhanced upper respiratory tract infection; we seem to be moving towards endemicity. → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1472694073635004422 | 23:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): "Science has provided the tools and evidence to control the COVID-19 pandemic, but the response has been shaped by political factors and a lack of cooperation, often to the detriment of health."thelancet.com/journals/lance… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1472694398613872640 | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +2361 cases (now 34.7 million) since 18 hours ago | 23:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Free at home Covid tests for NJ residents → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rk7i03/free_at_home_covid_tests_for_nj_residents/ | 23:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Anti-vaxxers block-book appointments to stop people getting life-saving Covid jab → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rk7kyq/antivaxxers_blockbook_appointments_to_stop_people/ | 23:54 |
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