| lastshell | LjL how your family member is feeling ? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | lastshell: it's two of them now, one got her positive PCR today, the other didn't for some reason even though he did it yesterday too. But it doesn't really matter, they both certainly have it. They're still feeling bad but at least not getting worse, and I think they've had less fever | 00:07 |
| LjL | He had 93% saturation the other day, 92% is when the guidelines here say you become eligible for oxygen | 00:07 |
| LjL | But who knows what his normal saturation is since he smokes and already always coughs a lot :/ | 00:08 |
| lastshell | LjL I don't have the source right now but I think there are some covid patients that they are treating with Fluvoxamine, oh yes the oxygen is not good :( | 00:08 |
| lastshell | I hope the oxygen levels don't drop more | 00:08 |
| LjL | I read that, I don't know what to think about that study because "the experts" are furiously fighting now on Twitter over paxlovid vs molnupiravir vs fluoxamine | 00:09 |
| lastshell | I see so is more like a many options but not sure which one is the real deal ? | 00:09 |
| LjL | He also has a few allergies so I definitely shouldn't suggest any medications. Otherwise I may subtly ask if he's okay with aspirin | 00:09 |
| lastshell | I know is crazy this but I recommend high vitamin D/C levels of vitamins | 00:10 |
| LjL | lastshell: well maybe they all work to some extent. Paxlovid seems to have the best results but it needs to be produced... We already have fluoxamine | 00:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Argentina: +42032 cases (now 5.6 million), +26 deaths (now 117111), +135645 tests (now 27.8 million) since a day ago — Colombia: +6326 cases (now 5.1 million), +33 deaths (now 129866), +69825 tests (now 29.5 million) since a day ago — Grenada: +41 cases (now 6009) since 21 hours ago | 00:10 |
| LjL | But if there was suddenly a huge demand for fluoxamine, psychiatric patients who need it may be left without so probably got to be careful with planning of that too | 00:11 |
| LjL | 42k cases out if 135k tests :| | 00:11 |
| LjL | Out of* | 00:12 |
| lastshell | I also recommend chicken soup with bones (I know is crazy some of this recommenddations but anything that can boost there inmune system with help) | 00:12 |
| lastshell | so far on my family gathering we are ok, we using n95/kn95 outside house, and we have the air filters at home some vaxxed other boostered | 00:13 |
| lastshell | I wish speed recovery to your family LjL | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): 2020.08: On how finding live SARSCoV2 in aerosols makes airborne spread undeniable, but actually studies showing infection from distances >>6ft were already know in 2020.03, even while CDC and WHO denied aerosol spreadtwitter.com/michaelzlin/st… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1476328450466091012 | 00:14 |
| LjL | Thanks | 00:16 |
| LjL | We just haven't gathered | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): 2021.12: On how molnupiravir’s risks of creating immunoevasive variants of SARSCoV2 should be publicly discussed by doctors and policymakers, and how many well known people share my concern.twitter.com/michaelzlin/st… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1476332936119009282 | 00:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bahamas: +665 cases (now 24204), +2429 tests (now 182446) since 5 days ago — Guinea: +174 cases (now 31412) since a day ago | 00:35 |
| xx | there's a respiratory virus pandemic out there, and people still don't see that as a real good opportunity to give up smoking... | 00:40 |
| Tuvix | Oof, CDC update tonight forecasts 44000+ deaths over the next 4 weeks, or ≈1571 per day, or a COVID death on average every 55 seconds. Today's 7-day moving daily death average is 1523, so that "+" at the end may manifest if that ticks up much. | 00:47 |
| lastshell | Tuvix this is USA ? | 00:52 |
| lastshell | I guess yes is CDC | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Great 1-slide summary. I find the experimental data convincing that Omicron is substantially less able to infect lung cells. twitter.com/erictopol/stat… → https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1476338041077731328 | 00:53 |
| Tuvix | Yea, USA-centric from the CDC; I suppose I could have clarified instead of making that implied. | 00:54 |
| Trippy72894 | does molnupiravir "introduce mutations into the viral genome"? | 00:58 |
| xx | the answer to that depends on your understanding of viruses | 00:59 |
| Trippy72894 | really? | 00:59 |
| xx | yeah | 01:00 |
| Trippy72894 | bottom line, is it a bad or good thing? | 01:00 |
| lastshell | I think was clear for the CDC I'm maybe sleepy Tuvix | 01:00 |
| xx | again, depends. Personally I'm curious about how it will work out, so I'm for allowing it. | 01:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bulgaria: +3449 cases (now 740682), +162 deaths (now 30819), +36449 tests (now 7.4 million) since a day ago — Switzerland: +20 deaths (now 12247) since 9 hours ago | 01:00 |
| xx | as a general rule, I'm all for human testing and experimental drugs, just for the sake of advancing human knowledge | 01:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Sildenafil for the Treatment of Patients With COVID-19 and Perfusion Mismatch on Subtraction Computed Tomography Angiography: A Pilot, Placebo-Controlled Randomised Trial → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rrmfwb/sildenafil_for_the_treatment_of_patients_with/ | 01:02 |
| xx | and it is guaranteed that using molnupiravir will advance human knowledge | 01:02 |
| xx | hey Brainstorm I said that days ago! | 01:02 |
| Brainstorm | Howdy xx! | 01:02 |
| LjL | xx, please stop acting holier than thou with your "let's all go extinct, but also, i'm much better than everybody who smokes or lets the virus mutate in them" and whatnot | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Return to in-person schooling in doubt as Omicron cases spike across Ontario → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrmo25/return_to_inperson_schooling_in_doubt_as_omicron/ | 01:12 |
| LjL | you could give up some things | 01:12 |
| xx | pretty sure that's a strawman | 01:13 |
| LjL | that doesn't give you the right to be condescending towards those who don't find the capacity in them to do so | 01:13 |
| LjL | if you think they deserve what's coming, you can keep just thinking it | 01:13 |
| xx | I would not interpret what I said as condescending | 01:13 |
| LjL | maybe it's not the right word | 01:14 |
| LjL | it's probably a worse word i have in mind, but i haven't used two years of pandemic as a good opportunity to read a dictionary | 01:14 |
| xx | I'm expressing a genuine surprise that not even a global pandemic is a sufficient enough reason to once again give up a habit that every doctor advises against | 01:15 |
| xx | like if you asked me 30 years ago "What would be a sufficient reason for you to give up smoking?" I would have thought that the horrible pictures on cigarrete packs would work | 01:17 |
| xx | and I would have been wrong | 01:17 |
| xx | at which point, I would have probably joked that "some airborne viruses going around would convince people". And this pandemic would have proven me wrong. | 01:17 |
| LjL | anyway i was also being fed up reading the Trippy part, you don't have to answer mysteriously to people asking genuine questions | 01:18 |
| LjL | i know/suspect what you mean is you hope to see the virus actually mutate-a-lot "thank" to molnupiravir | 01:19 |
| LjL | but apart from the fact that i hope to reflect the general sentiment we'd hope to mutate your face for those ideas, Trippy just doesn't know | 01:19 |
| xx | if monupiravir actually produced that unwanted effect, it would also mean that we'd be perhaps one step closer to developing some cancer cure | 01:20 |
| Tuvix | I'm sure you have a legit citation to back up that bunch of nonsense? | 01:20 |
| LjL | xx, but making the virus mutate a lot *is* molnupiravir *wanted* effect | 01:20 |
| xx | because right now we don't have a good enough chemical way of making viruses rapidly mutate in-vivo that would not also kill the host | 01:20 |
| LjL | it's just that some people argue that that there's more than enough chances it won't mutate *enough* to consistently fail at reproducing | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Nightingale surge hubs to be set up in eight hospitals, NHS England says → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59823652 | 01:22 |
| LjL | Tuvix, me or him or both? ;( | 01:22 |
| xx | probably me | 01:22 |
| Tuvix | The claim that a COVID treatment that's mutagenic is "good" for cancer research. | 01:27 |
| LjL | i guess his underlying argument is that no virus is actually mutating if it's just *failing to transcribe* to the point where no further functioning virion is constructed | 01:28 |
| LjL | hence the earlier "depends on your understanding of viruses" | 01:28 |
| LjL | obviously i can't state for a fact that any specific virion has actually caused another specific virion to be produced but with mutations that wouldn't have occurred without molnupiravir | 01:29 |
| Tuvix | Maybe? But the concern is that its mutagenic properties could result in new but still reproducing varients. I'm still not sure how that applies to oncology in a scientifically understood *productive* way regarding research. | 01:29 |
| LjL | but maybe the high bar for being technically able to make such a claim is the whole reason some people are concerned ;( | 01:30 |
| LjL | yeah i dunno | 01:30 |
| xx | obviously I'm not hoping for mutations that would be beneficial to coronavirus... | 01:30 |
| LjL | from my point of view, i just want him to understand he shouldn't play around with people asking genuine questions in a reasonable way in here | 01:30 |
| xx | but I am hoping for more insight being generated into methods of causing failures in genome transcription occuring inside cells, especially if there is a lot of transcription happen | 01:31 |
| xx | because that's cancer, simply speaking | 01:31 |
| LjL | i guess i would also like to understand more about molnupiravir but i'll do that later, same as i'll quit smoking later | 01:31 |
| LjL | (kidding, i did quit a few years ago) | 01:31 |
| xx | and causing cancer cells to fail to transcribe properly, in a way that suddenly makes them visible to the immune system, is one of holy grails of cancer research | 01:31 |
| LjL | weeeeell i think there are a few assumptions there to go from virus to cancer that may not hold true in practice... | 01:32 |
| LjL | such as the mechanism of "recognition" of the "thing to mutate" needing to be "it gets transcribed a lot" | 01:32 |
| xx | so imagine lung cancer, where you infect the lungs with some virus, wait a while, and then add a drug that causes massive failures in viral transcription | 01:32 |
| Tuvix | So, to summarize, you have zero references what-so-ever that this drug has any notable impact in the field of oncology and are speaking with your usual MO of flinging things against the wall to hope that people engage you? That's exactly what I have a problem with. | 01:32 |
| xx | of course I'm making lots of assumptions there, but I'm also hoping that more research will occur in this area | 01:33 |
| xx | Tuvix: I don't know why you seem to have an idea that I'm a troll, because that's how one would describe a troll | 01:35 |
| Tuvix | Got it, you'd like to think that this magically has properties that only you, with your not-even-1-year-of-pre-med have seen, and the experts in oncology have overlooked. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to receive your self-described hopes and assumptions. Maybe they'll name a research wing after you! | 01:35 |
| LjL | i can tell you he's not alone in being a bit fed up with you | 01:35 |
| LjL | and i don't even mean me | 01:35 |
| Tuvix | Oh, do you have a *reference* I've now asked for 3 times that has any relevance comparing molnupiavir to cancer reserach fields? | 01:36 |
| Tuvix | Or, do you* | 01:36 |
| Tuvix | If you don't, maybe you shouldn't bring it up in a channel that's supposed to focus on facts, not your untrained "hopes" and "assumptions" | 01:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Australia: +17350 cases (now 358756), +14 deaths (now 2224) since 21 hours ago — Ivory Coast: +1502 cases (now 66568), +1 deaths (now 708), +5348 tests (now 1.2 million) since a day ago | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: CDC investigating 86 cruise ships with reported Covid outbreaks → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrnoix/cdc_investigating_86_cruise_ships_with_reported/ | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +4934 cases (now 585624), +46 deaths (now 19622) since a day ago — Lebanon: +3153 cases (now 719103), +15 deaths (now 9087) since a day ago — Uruguay: +1417 cases (now 410311), +1 deaths (now 6168), +18971 tests (now 4.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Barbados: +227 cases (now 28063), +1409 tests (now 467711) since a day ago | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Siemens Healthineers Announces FDA Emergency Use Authorization For CLINITEST® Rapid COVID-19 Antigen Self-Test → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrnt0n/siemens_healthineers_announces_fda_emergency_use/ | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Dutch vaccine sceptic and anti-lockdown campaigner dies from coronavirus - DutchNews.nl → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rro24p/dutch_vaccine_sceptic_and_antilockdown_campaigner/ | 02:18 |
| LjL | ugh | 02:21 |
| LjL | today Twitter gave me #LockdownSubito as the top trending hashtag for Italy (or for me in Italy, anyway), where subito means immediately | 02:24 |
| LjL | i thought "good, people are seeing the issue?" but then turns out the first bunch of the tweets were in English with the Italian tag somewhat inexplicably added | 02:24 |
| xx | did you try to see if twitter would give you the same trending hashtag if you used a private window? | 02:25 |
| LjL | maybe i saw them first because my browser/Twitter is set to English, but still, why would so many tweets *in English* have an italian tag | 02:25 |
| LjL | and secondly there were a ton of tweets from anti-vax people | 02:25 |
| LjL | (in italian) | 02:25 |
| LjL | xx, no i didn't bother, i wasn't primarily concerned with whether it was tailored for me, more appalled at the tweets | 02:25 |
| LjL | anyway i thought part of it at least had to be a uh, what do you call it, a tweet farm? | 02:26 |
| LjL | xx, i don't think i can even try it from a private window, i'd have to make another account entirely, as twitter doesn't really like to show a lot of things to people without an account ;( | 02:26 |
| LjL | and to my dismay, Reddit also seems not to on mobile now | 02:27 |
| xx | that's true | 02:27 |
| xx | I just did a quick test, and in my private window, https://twitter.com/search?q=lockdown shows mostly anti-vax nonsense | 02:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): We thought the anti-Covid pill Paxlovid (Nirmatrelvir) would be effective vs Omicron because there are few, if any, mutations in the main protease of the virus in variants. But good to see this confirmation of potency in an independent lab (not Pfizer) [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476361793786183683 | 02:28 |
| LjL | hm, https://twitter.com/search?q=lockdownsubito shows me things in italian first, so i guess at least the english part being shown first is just because of the language i've set | 02:28 |
| xx | other people have spotted it https://twitter.com/Remodulator/status/1476261524888948736 | 02:29 |
| xx | and whenever something is trending, that's when the tweet bots/farms/whatever start misusing it too | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Channel Islands: +2371 cases (now 25998), +1 deaths (now 113) since 5 days ago — Rwanda: +2083 cases (now 109070), +22797 tests (now 4.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Belize: +333 cases (now 32067), +2021 tests (now 379996) since 23 hours ago | 02:34 |
| LjL | xx, that's actually one i saw when i looked | 02:36 |
| LjL | also, i remember some other time a while ago i clicked on a trending COVID thing, and it was also like this | 02:37 |
| LjL | that time i didn't feel like paying too much attention to it, y'know, bots gonna be bot | 02:37 |
| LjL | i am extremely wary of current "trends" towards saying that we should heavily censor social media | 02:37 |
| LjL | but on the other hand, when i care to look, i can sort of see the problem | 02:37 |
| xx | it's hard to manage at the scale where you have a billion users | 02:38 |
| xx | though I'm still leaning towards 'censorship = bad' | 02:39 |
| xx | even if it means that antivax get a platform to spout their nonsense | 02:39 |
| xx | mainly because I have a few web services and would prefer to not be forced to police it heavily or spend extra funds on that | 02:40 |
| xx | but yeah, twitter is in a weird position | 02:40 |
| LjL | maybe there is a constant in that scaling up to "having" billions of X doesn't tend to go hand in hand with scaling up to "handling" billions of X | 02:42 |
| LjL | same as... humans | 02:42 |
| xx | heh, good point | 02:42 |
| xx | on the other hand, services like mastodon have very few users (in comparison) but still find themselves full of abuse and bots and fake info | 02:43 |
| xx | so maybe humans just suck and we need to learn to use a mental /ignore while trying to make sure we don't accidentally ignore good info | 02:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID surge may delay garbage pickup for some Miami-Dade residents → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrol27/covid_surge_may_delay_garbage_pickup_for_some/ | 02:47 |
| minthos | censorship is necessary and it can be good or bad depending on how it's done | 02:47 |
| xx | I don't think I've read a convincing argument that it is *necessary* | 02:48 |
| LjL | xx, i know of a chatroom-type that's how hackers talk when they don't want to be overheard, which despite having less than 100k users found itself so rotten from inside that, without its admins realizing, it ended up being owned by a completely bonkers abusive individual, imagine that | 02:48 |
| xx | i.e. that some information must not be made available | 02:48 |
| LjL | they didn't even just *have* trolls, they *were* the troll, without knowing! | 02:48 |
| minthos | it's not that the information shouldn't be available, it's that communication channels should be low noise, high signal | 02:49 |
| minthos | if someone wants all the bot spam they should be able to seek it out | 02:49 |
| minthos | or crazy people, etc | 02:49 |
| minthos | but I don't want it in my feeds | 02:49 |
| LjL | but your feeds are basically a search (if you're most people) | 02:50 |
| xx | LjL: for some reason that made me think of freenode | 02:50 |
| LjL | because there's so much information on the internet, the only sane wane to go through it is searching | 02:50 |
| minthos | this channel is a feed, and it's censored | 02:50 |
| LjL | so you have to remove the things you don't like from the search, ultimately | 02:50 |
| LjL | then you give them their own search, but then people in *that* search start feeling there's too much crazy stuff... | 02:50 |
| xx | minthos: that doesn't sound like censorship, at least not in the traditional meaning of it | 02:50 |
| LjL | minthos, yes, it works "easily" at a very local level, but when you're Twitter, you're much more than this channel | 02:51 |
| minthos | like I said, it can be good or bad depending on how it's done | 02:51 |
| xx | as long as there's an option "click here to reveal potentially wrong info" or a setting to disable those prompts, that fine by me, for now | 02:51 |
| LjL | hmm | 02:51 |
| xx | but once they start completely removing info, and not even letting you know that info was removed, that's when I worry | 02:51 |
| LjL | chilling effect blah blah | 02:51 |
| minthos | exactly | 02:51 |
| LjL | well what about my shadowban from r/coronavirus ;( | 02:52 |
| xx | oh shadowbans are the worst | 02:52 |
| LjL | i kept writing comments without knowing they wouldn't be seen! | 02:52 |
| dTal | I don't see how all the botspam meaningfully makes the channel censored | 02:52 |
| LjL | so frustrating | 02:52 |
| minthos | dTal: we kick annoying users | 02:52 |
| LjL | dTal, i don't think that's what anyone was saying... | 02:52 |
| LjL | if by botspam you're referring to Brainstorm ;( | 02:52 |
| dTal | Ah, well then I misunderstood. Carry on | 02:53 |
| xx | isn't there some channel like #covid-ticker that doesn't have as "handpicked" sources? | 02:53 |
| dTal | LjL you know my feelings about Brainstorm :) if a human posted that way, you'd kick them | 02:53 |
| LjL | xx, it'd flood out fre-- libera, lol | 02:54 |
| dTal | how would you like them to be picked then | 02:54 |
| xx | oh I wasn't asking that, I was just saying that if someone is upset that Brainstorm posts very select ("censored") stuff in this channel, there's another channel where more wide sources are posted | 02:55 |
| LjL | wait wait wait everyone | 02:56 |
| LjL | i think what happened was simply that this was posted <minthos> if someone wants all the bot spam they should be able to seek it out | 02:56 |
| LjL | and minthos meant "bot spam" as in the Twitter botfarm stuff | 02:56 |
| LjL | but dTal saw that and assumed it was about Brainstorm-type bot spam because that's what happens in here, and the conversation had sort of turned into being about the channel | 02:56 |
| minthos | no LjL I wasn't referring to brainstorm, I mean the crap like the elon musk btc giveaway spambots on twitter | 02:57 |
| minthos | oh yes right | 02:57 |
| minthos | sorry I misread | 02:57 |
| LjL | i know, but that's because i know how the conversation started with the twitter hashtag stuff | 02:57 |
| Tuvix | The spammiest I see links here is from Lin, and he's arguably got his own perspective and seems to mostly know his stuff. The record just stays in the same concentric groove a bit too long until he posts something actually useful :P | 02:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mayotte: +232 cases (now 21911) since a day ago | 02:59 |
| LjL | why hello Brainstorm | 02:59 |
| LjL | i'm still tempted to remove Lin, maybe i'm biased towards keeping him because i agree with his molnupiravir concerns, but i can see he's being a broken record a bit | 03:00 |
| minthos | if someone doesn't like brainstorm, peace is only a /ignore away | 03:00 |
| xx | what's the update on molnupiravir anyway? It's been EUA approved, but it is actually already being used in the wild? | 03:00 |
| dTal | I'm philosophically opposed to /ignore | 03:01 |
| dTal | I wish there were a version that made people's text low-contrast and smaller font - that would be alright | 03:01 |
| minthos | my ignore list has 137 entries | 03:01 |
| LjL | dTal, that's basically the default setup on Matrix, *if* bots use the Matrix equivalent of NOTICE | 03:02 |
| LjL | which... they usually do | 03:02 |
| xx | dTal: there's a trigger on weechat for that, other clients possibly have that too | 03:02 |
| LjL | problem is if they do that, the bridge also makes them use NOTICE on the IRC side | 03:02 |
| LjL | and then everybody starts complaining because they aren't used to that and because some clients are dumb and treat NOTICEs as an indiscriminate highlight | 03:02 |
| LjL | so the main issue on IRC is that there is no de-facto (sorry de-facto) standard for "marking" bots as such | 03:02 |
| dTal | don't apologise it's his fault for picking that nick :p | 03:03 |
| Tuvix | There are a few UTF-8 dashes to use too, like de–facto :D | 03:03 |
| LjL | i guess that's de-facto true but i still feel bad, de-tal | 03:03 |
| LjL | i could also just have used the space, if i had not actually wanted to be slightly annoying :P | 03:04 |
| minthos | he de facto made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it | 03:04 |
| xx | so many people use xx as a placeholder... | 03:04 |
| LjL | (also he's away for holidays i believe) | 03:04 |
| LjL | a lot of the staff have a single-letter nickname they sometimes use. i believe they switch to it when they feel they've not been feeling "angry staffer" enough, and they need more rage | 03:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): We also very quickly jumped to over 84,000 Covid hospitalizations twitter.com/EricTopol/stat… pic.twitter.com/wo8c7h2qbg → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476370555594969093 | 03:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Coroner finds 3 siblings at Johnstown home died of COVID-19 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrpjt1/coroner_finds_3_siblings_at_johnstown_home_died/ | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Alpha Coronavirus Variant Evolved to Evade Immune System → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrpm5a/alpha_coronavirus_variant_evolved_to_evade_immune/ | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mexico: +5290 cases (now 4.0 million), +188 deaths (now 299132), +25798 tests (now 12.3 million) since 22 hours ago — Suriname: +240 cases (now 52031), +1 deaths (now 1189), +893 tests (now 169283) since 22 hours ago | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): Data from all cases as of Dec 29 in Ontario Canada shows 2-shot vaccine still associated with:90.4% less risk of hospitalization95.4% less risk of ICU admissioncompared to unvaccinated.But only 14.5% less risk of [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/1476381143410745344 | 03:45 |
| LjL | hmm, that study on Alpha above | 03:52 |
| LjL | (which is at https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04352-y by the way since the article, for a change, is not kind enough to link to it) | 03:52 |
| LjL | maybe Omicron is a bit milder *because* it convinces the immune system to react less? | 03:53 |
| lastshell | how that is possible if I recall omicron has more mutation ? | 03:53 |
| LjL | which is a win for the virus because it can reproduce more, but maybe also a small win for us if the severe disease was often caused by immune overreaction, cytokine storms, and the like | 03:53 |
| LjL | yes, it has more mutations. so did Alpha compared to the wild-type virus (i.e. before Alpha) | 03:54 |
| dTal | that would imply that you could treat pre-omicron covid with ibuprofen and other immunosuppressants | 03:54 |
| lastshell | so thats why sometimes the antidepressive drugs are working ? | 03:54 |
| dTal | however: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7247463/ | 03:54 |
| LjL | dTal, not sure about ibuprofen, but a couple of italian hospital directors have tried saying in all possible ways that they found either aspirin or nimesuline helped tremendously in their hospital practices | 03:57 |
| LjL | but i guess i remember a lot of ruckus over whether aspirin helped or made things worse, back in 2020, and the same for other NSAIDs... | 03:58 |
| LjL | also, i don't know much about the immune system, but i know it's Pretty Complicated. so maybe the specific parts the virus suppresses help | 03:59 |
| LjL | i don't know, just thought it was an interesting idea based on that study on Alpha, which looks interesting on its own merit anyway | 04:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: POLITICO’s most-read stories of 2021: From royal succession to vaccination rollouts, Joe Biden’s fart and the violent outbursts of a diplomat’s wife, these are the stories that got readers clicking this year. → https://www.politico.eu/article/politicos-most-read-stories-of-2021/ | 04:04 |
| Tuvix | "Come puruse our most clickbait focused stories so we can re-engage you! Again!" | 04:06 |
| Tuvix | Huristics: 0. Clickbait: 1. | 04:06 |
| Tuvix | (though I'm sure the huristics probably get a lot more right…) | 04:06 |
| LjL | Brainstorm's heuristics: -1 | 04:09 |
| LjL | (well he doesn't really have heuristics unless a really long regex made up of many somewhat random individual keywords counts) | 04:09 |
| dTal | I find ignoring Politico to be an excellent heuristic | 04:10 |
| LjL | dTal, what's the story, it used to be decent but it was sold and all its journalists replaced... wait no that was the Atlantic? | 04:10 |
| Tuvix | I'm naturally skeptical of any publication predicated on convincing me to read it as it's primary selling point :P | 04:11 |
| Tuvix | its* | 04:11 |
| dTal | okay it turns out I've read 6 articles on Politico ever | 04:11 |
| dTal | er, 5 | 04:12 |
| dTal | one of them was actually pretty good | 04:12 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Evolution of enhanced innate immune evasion by SARS-CoV-2 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/9GG73NEA ) | 04:12 | |
| dTal | it was an excerpt from Andrew Yang's book | 04:12 |
| dTal | so, that's not a spectacular record for original insightful journalism | 04:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Notorious IRC character dTal found miscounting his number of read articles: in a debacle that will be remembered, dTal's throwing shade on our pretty decent publication backfired! Read all about it → https://www.politico.eu/article/politicos-most-read-stories-of-2021/ | 04:13 |
| dTal | Oh sweet I've always craved notoriety | 04:13 |
| Tuvix | I hear clickbait is half of what you need to win elections at state, if not federal office in the US these-days ;) | 04:14 |
| dTal | the other half is money | 04:14 |
| LjL | Tuvix, if federal elections were decided by quick-witted but cheap clickbaitable quotes, how would you explain the current president take about ten minutes to even say anything | 04:16 |
| LjL | the old one sounded like a Markov chain generator but that can be quite clickbaity | 04:16 |
| LjL | %quote donald trump | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I think trump would say: Wake Up America -- China is pushing hard on cutting taxes {& Maryland. Nothing on emails. Huma’s faulty thinking on the interview. Go donald." | 04:17 |
| dTal | that's the most concise description of Trump I've yet heard | 04:17 |
| LjL | %quote trump on covid | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I think trump would say: "@ArkaysDesign: @slone @realDonaldTrump The grey sofa don't match Sir...I would still be on ice if @cher I agree we need one smart PRESIDENT..NOT a little (and his apology-zero control over himself! | 04:17 |
| LjL | meh | 04:17 |
| LjL | he's got a better Markov chain generator than i do :< | 04:17 |
| dTal | still to coherent, needs a bit more covfefe | 04:18 |
| LjL | %quote trump on covfefe | 04:18 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I think trump would say: Those that worked for another country or person has become a laughingstock." @realDonaldTrump on Fred Dicker's @TALK1300 radio show Tuesday at 8:00 &.security - big leads everywhere. | 04:18 |
| LjL | big meh | 04:18 |
| LjL | now i want to feed it all the COVID headlines this channel has ever had, and create fictional COVID headlines | 04:18 |
| LjL | but is it even worth it when other people are doing this with deep learning instead | 04:18 |
| LjL | and all i know about deep learning is it's, man, deep | 04:19 |
| Tuvix | LjL: Yea, we've gone from brash comments that have little foundation in reality to long-winded addresses that even I just gloss over and wait for a news agency or two to supply me the highlights for. | 04:19 |
| Tuvix | I think there's a middle ground, but I'm also a bit more optimistic we won't have blatently false statements about our next elections by the sitting head of the country this time. I think that's at least mostly a win? | 04:19 |
| LjL | i can't judge, there's a somewhat real chance Berlusconi will be our next president (not PM, mind) | 04:20 |
| LjL | everybody wants Draghi to be the next president, but they also want him to keep being the PM. and that's constitutionally a little tricky. | 04:20 |
| Tuvix | For you math folk: the rate of change of position is speed; the rate of chance of speed is acceleration; the rate of change of acceleration is known as the "jerk"; the rate of change of the jerk? That's inauguration, where we exchange one jerk for another! | 04:21 |
| LjL | heh. i didn't even know it was known as the jerk, but it's mildly funny anyway | 04:21 |
| LjL | omicron-level funny | 04:21 |
| Tuvix | Yea, national populism isn't a US-only trend, but our leader seems to have done a more boisterous job of embodying it. | 04:22 |
| Tuvix | Well, former leader. | 04:22 |
| LjL | he was initially labelled "the American Berlusconi" | 04:22 |
| Tuvix | I was shaking my head at Brexit, and then we put that guy in charge here. Fear sells I suppose. | 04:23 |
| LjL | and i was skeptical of that label because... okay, Berlusconi was first in time, but he was just the president of 🍕, not the president of 🍍🍕 | 04:23 |
| LjL | (the PM, whatever!) | 04:23 |
| Tuvix | Same with COVID too, although the fear is often misdirected at things it shouldn't be, like vaccine safety, effectiveness, or nonsense about inaccurate statements to do with protections like masks. | 04:24 |
| Tuvix | The sports group I've fallen out with literally had one of their "experienced" instructors warn our entier staff email-list about the dangers of requiring masks on our customers, claiming more would pass out from lack of oxygen; he even bolded that last part. | 04:25 |
| Tuvix | This is, to be clear, utter nonsense, but he clearly believed it enough to supply such a warning. | 04:26 |
| LjL | uhm | 04:26 |
| LjL | does that mean customers who would be doing sports? | 04:26 |
| Tuvix | They'd be siting in an airplane for 25 minutes. | 04:26 |
| LjL | oh okay | 04:26 |
| LjL | because i don't know if "lack of oxygen" is an accurate depiction of what happens, but i think when doing sports masks *can* interfere in not great ways | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | If they were exerting themselves, sure, but this is not such an argument. | 04:27 |
| LjL | okay | 04:27 |
| LjL | then he's an idiot | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | And sometimes even if you are, it might not make much difference. Here's a fun video with a 55 year old women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t2k2-xH5AU | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | But yea, he's an idiot. Was unvaccinated as of Aug, no idea now. I assume so. | 04:27 |
| LjL | oh i haven't seen that video but i've definitely seen someone else (possibly Medlife Crisis) demonstrating masks didn't decrease oxygen with a pulse oximeter | 04:28 |
| LjL | but i think they might have had to do multiple takes of that, anyway | 04:29 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and her heartrate is ~165 or so. | 04:29 |
| LjL | because i know how those cheap pulse oximeters "work"... i can have 93% one moment and 99% the next :P | 04:29 |
| Tuvix | I've got some similar one, whatever was "not expensive" but had the PI reading as well. IIRC the error margin is ±2%, but I trust it a bit less than that. | 04:29 |
| Tuvix | It's always been ≥95% for me though, so close enough. I suppose, if it was properly calibrated, that might have been as low as 93%, but it usually reads 96-98% for me. | 04:30 |
| LjL | Tuvix, i have two, neither of them has PI (i bought the first one because it had USB, and the second one was very cheap as i just wanted to check the accuracy of the first one :P) | 04:31 |
| LjL | PI on the second one would've been nice but it would have cost a little more... but still, if it has a graph, you can tell when it's getting a solid reading and when it isn't | 04:31 |
| LjL | (even though unlike PI, the graph usually scales automatically depending on your perfusion) | 04:32 |
| LjL | anyway, they're often reading quite different values from one another | 04:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +16965 cases (now 3.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 04:32 |
| Tuvix | I've been tempted to ask the local fire department to do a comparison for me; I'm assuming they or one of the EMS kits in the station has a properly calibrated one I could compare to. | 04:33 |
| Tuvix | But as to consistency, it seems to be fairly stable, changing not more than 1-2% when I'm wearing it | 04:35 |
| LjL | my USB one is much more variable than the cheaper one, which looks both steadier and... more accurate, as in it doesn't often randomly go down to 93% | 04:35 |
| dTal | I suppose that, given that masks do reduce the efficiency of respiration, that there must therefore be some person with marginal respiration such that a mask causes them to lose consciousness while sitting normally | 04:36 |
| user27 | I wouldn't focus on the number so much | 04:36 |
| dTal | such a person would likely not be able to walk, however | 04:36 |
| user27 | thats a downside of owning one IMO | 04:36 |
| Tuvix | Presumably those same people are at higher risk for COVID anyway due to their shot respiratory system. | 04:37 |
| Tuvix | And yea, if I'm ~98% one day and closer to ~96% the next I really don't worry. | 04:37 |
| dTal | what do you mean "anyway" | 04:37 |
| Tuvix | It's a rough guage and a tool that could well be wrong, not unlike my fitbit. | 04:37 |
| user27 | often CO2 is more important than O2 | 04:38 |
| user27 | and competes better for the hemaglobin , etc | 04:38 |
| Tuvix | COVID would likely have a higher chance of bad outcomes if you already have complications with the primary infection vector: the respiratory system. Say, asthma, or similar. | 04:38 |
| Tuvix | This is the one I have, and after 3 readings it seems to be convinced I'm at 97-98% tonight. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086CBYN87 | 04:42 |
| LjL | well, whatever, i tried to take a video showing the two oximeters showing different values, but they were also both solidly 97%-98% until i held my breath :P | 04:44 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and who knows, if I'd bought 3 of these it's quite possible they don't agree. I bought a rather cheap blister pack of bluetooth temp+humidity sensors recently and reviews were mixed. They were actually quite close once I let them settle from the winter shipping conditiions. | 04:45 |
| Tuvix | Closer to the temperature my multimeter claims too than my home's thermostat :D | 04:45 |
| LjL | Tuvix, i have https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01MS3GLQO/ and https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B08134VTFK/ and also i bought https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B016XOBVY0/ for relatives (as it was the only one available at that very covidy time) | 04:45 |
| LjL | i paid the first one around €30, not €37 as it shows now | 04:46 |
| Tuvix | Yea, supply being what it is you sometimes go with what you can get. | 04:46 |
| LjL | i just had some temperature+humidity sensors go weird | 04:46 |
| LjL | i suspect when there's *awfully* high humidity like in the past days, they may act up and possibly get permanently wonky | 04:46 |
| Tuvix | I put one of mine in my fridge for a bit, and it freaked out for about 20 minutes once I took it out, presumably due to condensation. It cleared up after though. | 04:47 |
| LjL | well one of them, the oldest one, had already measured implausibly low humidity for a while. it's been sitting indoors now, but it was on the balcony before | 04:47 |
| LjL | now the second one which is sitting outside also started showing wrong humidity after some nights with virtually 100% humidity | 04:48 |
| Tuvix | The low-cost ones are built down a price-point; I'm sure the sensors are the absolute cheapest BOM the assembler could find in many cases. | 04:48 |
| LjL | and interestingly, when i put those two and a third for comparison on the balcony, the former two both read the same - wrong - humidity, while the one that hadn't sat outside before was reading a higher and likely correct value | 04:48 |
| LjL | yeah these are not even bluetooth, they're 433MHz RF | 04:48 |
| LjL | which is nice as i can get the readings with rtl_433 :P | 04:48 |
| LjL | also the temperatures right now are ranging between 6.5C and 8.2C... that's not *quite* the same, though still within tolerance technically, since it's ±1°C and the real temperature could be around 7 | 04:50 |
| Tuvix | Interesting, looks like that's also square in the middle of the Associazione Radioamatori Italiani UHF range. | 04:52 |
| Tuvix | Presumably the devices are either willing to work with possible interference or are legally required to deal with it if it happens. | 04:52 |
| LjL | it's unlicensed use all over the EU and used by a ton of things | 04:52 |
| LjL | the interference is usually "dealt with" very roughly by just repeating the same message three times in a row | 04:53 |
| Tuvix | Ah, probably power limits like a ton of US "Part-15" (after the federal law that's licensed under) stuff. | 04:53 |
| LjL | and if it doesn't get across anyway, well too bad | 04:53 |
| Tuvix | Pretty much any consumer device you buy here that has a radio (receiver or transmitter) has a part-15 label on it. | 04:53 |
| LjL | yes there are power limits and i believe there are also duty cycle limits | 04:53 |
| LjL | and you can't *make* a 433MHz device yourself, even if it otherwise respects the limits, it has to be pre-assembled | 04:54 |
| Tuvix | Yea, it's got to be idiot-proof so no one does something like wipe out EMS or whatever by tweaking it. | 04:54 |
| LjL | despite its name by the way, rtl_433 can deal with any frequency and does work with a number of devices in the US | 04:55 |
| LjL | (you just have to tell it the frequency) | 04:55 |
| LjL | (and i'm told there are a number of 433MHz devices in the US anyway, even though i'm not clear on whether that's actually legal :P) | 04:56 |
| Tuvix | If amazon delivers it there probably are, legal or not. | 04:56 |
| LjL | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPD433 would indicate it's illegal, but it's unclear whether it's talking about *voice* radios, since those were not previously allowed on 433 even in Europe | 04:56 |
| Tuvix | Hopefully it's a good sign my pulse oximeter tends to agree with my fitbit on heartrate, typically within 1bpm accounting for the offset refresh rates. | 05:00 |
| Tuvix | I trust neither device for medically-crucial decisions, but it's nice to have baseline stats. | 05:00 |
| Tuvix | I've also heard about cases where patients shared fitbit data on things like heartrate changes in order to help identify if a condition was newly presenting or a long-term trend. | 05:01 |
| LjL | Tuvix, pulse oximeters are generally quite accurate on heartrate | 05:04 |
| LjL | fitbits not so sure, at least my Bip watch is not very accurate unless i'm taking a reading while staying quite still... the automatic readings it takes every 5 minutes are not great :P | 05:04 |
| LjL | Tuvix, similar things have been used to even monitor COVID on a population level. cool and also a bit creepy. de-facto shared this before. https://corona-datenspende.de/science/en/monitor/ | 05:06 |
| Tuvix | I don't think my fitbot indicates SpO2, but has some "estimated oxygen variation" graph for sleep-hours. | 05:06 |
| Tuvix | Stats in aggregate, as long as properly managed and consented (even if opt-out, which I normally despise) I'm sort of on-board with. If it's not personally identifying, and there's some potential legit socitial value, sure, make people click in an app to disable it. | 05:07 |
| Tuvix | It's the "properly managed and consented" bit that is easy to get wrong though. | 05:07 |
| Tuvix | I don't really poke at my fitbit data all that often, but the last 2 weeks I seem to not have unusually high oxygen variation. That's better than inconsistent oxygen delivery while I sleep I suppose. | 05:09 |
| LjL | Tuvix, this Bip i have, i use it with Gadgetbridge (a free and open source app that works with a few of these wearables), but Huami which makes the Bip and some other devices supported by Gadgetbridge introduced some cryptography preventing use with Gadgetbridge without "stealing a key" in the newer versions (Bip S, Bip U, and newer Mi Bands). clearly they strongly want people to use these things with *their* app. | 05:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Japan: +466 cases (now 1.7 million), +4 deaths (now 18393), +40191 tests (now 29.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 05:10 |
| Tuvix | Yuck, vendor lock-in stinks. | 05:10 |
| LjL | and i know they have an API for "third parties" to get information as to your activity, and this information is probably machine-learned to some extent since you can "teach" their app that you are, for instance, brushing your teeth | 05:10 |
| LjL | (it's an actual example from the library of things you can be doing) | 05:10 |
| LjL | so i imagine in the west, this could be used to pop up a Colgate ad just at the right time | 05:11 |
| LjL | in China... maybe it can be used to remove some healthcare-related social credit from you because you don't brush your teeth regularly? ;( | 05:11 |
| Tuvix | Right, or if you're inconsistent at dental care, suggest a dentist in your area to advertise to you to become their client or w/e. | 05:11 |
| Tuvix | Heh, you and I had similar ideas there :P | 05:11 |
| LjL | or tell health insurance companies to beware of you | 05:12 |
| Tuvix | Yea, Orwell would love this if he'd known what the 21st century had in store… | 05:12 |
| LjL | the slope is slippery, as i find most slopes can be | 05:12 |
| Tuvix | Thought police? Nah, we just have the Internet of Thoughts. I mean things! | 05:12 |
| LjL | Orwell's "mistake" was he envisioned surveillance powered by humans, so you knew you *might* be watched at any time, but in reality the chances of that happening at any given time weren't all that high, because it'd take 8 billion people to monitor 8 billion people 24/7. | 05:13 |
| LjL | but that's without AI | 05:13 |
| Tuvix | I don't know if the interview clip is still on youtube or wherever, but a former CIA staffer spoke publicly about similar "threads" you could pull at people's digital and other government-accessible trails. Individually knowing what cell tower you were at during the lunch hour may not say much, but over hours, days, and weeks, all that information can be very revealing. | 05:16 |
| Tuvix | Ah, Bill (William) Binney is the guy. | 05:17 |
| Tuvix | Hmm, reading his more recent public positions, I guess it's a mixed bag given some of his odd statements since. Weird. | 05:19 |
| Tuvix | Yea, all my info on the guy was pre-2012 I guess, since there's some crazy stuff he's been involved with since. | 05:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: This Scientist Created a Rapid Test Just Weeks Into the Pandemic. Here’s Why You Still Can’t Get It. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrs1zw/this_scientist_created_a_rapid_test_just_weeks/ | 05:30 |
| minthos | the body is pretty good at adapting to reduced oxygen levels, endurance athletes for example train at high altitudes before competitions to improve their oxygen uptake | 05:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Pakistan: +482 cases (now 1.3 million), +3 deaths (now 28921), +50662 tests (now 23.3 million) since a day ago — Belgium: +12945 cases (now 2.1 million), +17 deaths (now 28267) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +223745 cases (now 12.6 million), +69 deaths (now 148557) since 23 hours ago | 05:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO warns of a ‘tsunami’ of Delta and Omicron cases as US officials stress Omicron’s ‘milder’ effects → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/who-delta-omicron-covid-cases-us-milder-effects-7697609/ | 05:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): There's some indication Covid cases could be starting to peak in London, one of the earliest European cities to become engulfed by #Omicron wave. Hospitalizations in the city, while up sharply, are well below levels seen in prior Covid waves and [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1476413236513849347 | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +7769 cases (now 34.8 million), +268 deaths (now 480860) since 6 hours ago | 06:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Dreaming of long summer days… Hope with the decrease of travel ban and SA managing well #Omicron, lots of people would like to come to enjoy the long beaches and amazing nature and wildlife in South Africa. pic.twitter.com/ldr9cPZp38 → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1476420675107790852 | 06:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: No travel history, just scratchy throat: Should you get tested for the Omicron variant? → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/health/travel-history-scratchy-throat-omicron-testing-7694747/ | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Scotland, United Kingdom: +54907 cases (now 886065), +14 deaths (now 9836) since 4 days ago — Ontario, Canada: +41560 cases (now 740988), +24 deaths (now 10224) since a day ago — Lombardy, Italy: +32696 cases (now 1.1 million), +28 deaths (now 35008) since a day ago — New Jersey, United States: +26473 cases (now 1.5 million), +50 deaths (now 28967) since a day ago | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Global Covid-19 updates: Top developments today from around the world → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/coronavirus-omicron-delta-global-updates-december-30-2021-7697644/ | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Maybe someday @CDCgov and other gov't leaders who are currently saying testing won't help can explain why 4 days prior to the new shortened isolation guidelines they issued guidance for healthcare workers *with a negative test result* pic.twitter.com/m2IkuhCA2w → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476428741622394880 | 06:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Florida Surgeon General declares single positive COVID test proves immunity forever: Florida's Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, continues to defy scientific consensus with new rules declaring a single positive COVID test [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/florida-surgeon-general-declares-single-positive-covid-test-proves-immunity-forever/ | 07:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Covid: People rush to cancel weddings, demand refunds; wedding industry takes another hit → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/life-style/covid-people-rush-to-cancel-weddings-demand-refunds-wedding-industry-takes-another-hit-omicron-7697035/ | 07:34 |
| Bridgestorm | ❗ 地震预警 / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for Taiwan (just felt near Hualien City?) — Follow for updates (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 07:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): FDA Says Rapid At-Home COVID Tests Not as Sensitive to Omicron → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 08:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Why Covid-19 means the era of ever cheaper air travel could be over → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/why-covid-19-means-the-era-of-ever-cheaper-air-travel-could-be-over-7697740/ | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Maharashtra, India: +3900 cases (now 6.7 million), +20 deaths (now 141496) since 23 hours ago — West Bengal, India: +1089 cases (now 1.6 million), +12 deaths (now 19745) since 23 hours ago — Delhi, India: +923 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Tamil Nadu, India: +739 cases (now 2.7 million), +8 deaths (now 36758) since 23 hours ago | 09:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Thousands message late Chinese COVID whistleblower doctor 2 years on → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rrwl7k/thousands_message_late_chinese_covid/ | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Anthony Fauci says US life without pandemic controls could begin in months → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrwqwm/anthony_fauci_says_us_life_without_pandemic/ | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Decline in new Covid-19 cases in Belgium slowing down → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrwz0w/decline_in_new_covid19_cases_in_belgium_slowing/ | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Philippines: +1470 cases (now 2.8 million), +132 deaths (now 51373) since a day ago | 10:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | my friend is like "x is really sick, y seems to be dying" and so on, then later he says hey ! it's so crowded downtown, lets go party!!" lol | 10:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | why won't they take it serious... | 10:17 |
| Dredd | <xx> "I'm expressing a genuine..." <- Because such decisions aren't largely mediated by a lack of reason? 😛 | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Another very thoughtful, balanced thread from Chris on the challenges posed by staff absences and hospital-acquired infections. And on why reducing the isolation period from 7 to 5 days is such a complicated issue, with obvious benefits but significant [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1476483237102903300 | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +1377 cases (now 240334), +6 deaths (now 1928), +9500 tests (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +43180 cases (now 7.1 million) since 18 hours ago | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Wearing masks outdoors mandatory in Paris starting Friday → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrxore/wearing_masks_outdoors_mandatory_in_paris/ | 10:43 |
| Dredd | <user27> "and competes better for the..." <- I think you might mean carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide? | 10:44 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uganda: +1809 cases (now 139079), +4 deaths (now 3291), +8313 tests (now 2.1 million) since 22 hours ago — Saint Lucia: +63 cases (now 13473), +368 tests (now 107507) since 22 hours ago | 10:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Lockdown rulebreakers in China marched through streets in ‘shaming parade’: In a bid to increase compliance, a group of alleged lockdown rule flouters have been marched in a “shaming parade” through the streets of China. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rrxxig/lockdown_rulebreakers_in_china_marched_through/ | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: France tightens COVID rules, makes masks mandatory outdoors in Paris: The French government rolled out new restrictions in an effort to stop the spread of the Omicron variant. → https://www.politico.eu/article/france-tightens-covid-rules-including-mandatory-masks-outdoor-in-paris/ | 11:21 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | So omicron does spread outdoors? | 11:23 |
| Dredd | Delta could spread outdoors, Omicron for sure can | 11:30 |
| Dredd | As it's even more contagious | 11:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Britons with homes in EU told they can’t drive through France to get there: Eurotunnel operator issues warning to UK nationals after update to Covid travel rules by French government. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rrygcd/britons_with_homes_in_eu_told_they_cant_drive/ | 11:31 |
| Dredd | Relatively speaking though, I'm not sure masks make sense outside provided social distancing / not in a packed space | 11:32 |
| Dredd | Since just masks aren't effective enough to stop you breathing in passive circulating virus | 11:32 |
| Dredd | Then again, I guess people wearing them probably get some filtration of the virus that breath out so on that level it may help at the population level | 11:33 |
| Dredd | 🤔 | 11:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zambia: +5555 cases (now 249193), +4 deaths (now 3730), +16629 tests (now 2.9 million) since 22 hours ago — Israel: +2470 cases (now 1.4 million) since 16 hours ago — Oman: +132 cases (now 305489) since 23 hours ago | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Emergence in Southern France of a new SARS-CoV-2 variant of probably Cameroonian origin harbouring both substitutions N501Y and E484K in the spike protein → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rryln7/emergence_in_southern_france_of_a_new_sarscov2/ | 11:40 |
| sdfgsdfg | ahh not sure if it was mentioned here but someone mentioned an academic paper reference management software.... wish I could find that again | 11:49 |
| sdfgsdfg | it looked slick | 11:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: The Cruel Failure of Welfare Reform in the Southwest: by Eli Hager ] ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published. This article was co-published with the Las Vegas [... want %more?] → https://www.propublica.org/article/the-cruel-failure-of-welfare-reform-in-the-southwest#1228355 | 11:50 |
| sdfgsdfg | nice got it, zotero | 11:53 |
| sdfgsdfg | I think | 11:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Finland: +9619 cases (now 248958), +6 deaths (now 1554), +20874 tests (now 8.6 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:01 |
| Dredd | There's a link to it in the topic here | 12:02 |
| Dredd | sdfgsdfg: ^ | 12:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission in South African health care workers who received a homologous booster of Ad26.COV2 during an Omicron COVID19 wave: Preliminary Results of the Sisonke 2 Study. → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rrz28z/vaccine_effectiveness_against_hospital_admission/ | 12:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Theo Sanderson (@theosanderson): Testing situation pretty badData collected by @russss at russss.github.io/covidtracker/t… pic.twitter.com/NTufNwqqZ9 → https://twitter.com/theosanderson/status/1476509480712032257 | 12:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: J&J booster 84% effective against hospitalization -S.African Omicron-era study → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrzayz/jj_booster_84_effective_against_hospitalization/ | 12:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from Johnson&Johnson: (news): Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 Vaccine Demonstrates 85 Percent Effectiveness against Hospitalization in South Africa when Omicron was Dominant → https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-demonstrates-85-percent-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-south-africa-when-omicron-was-dominant | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Senegal: +198 cases (now 74870), +1606 tests (now 917913) since a day ago — Nepal: +235 cases (now 828207), +6814 tests (now 4.9 million) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +1364 cases (now 3.1 million) since 19 hours ago | 12:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Omicron: NHS is on “war footing” as Nightingale hubs are announced in England: Temporary hubs will be set up in the grounds of eight hospitals around England as a precaution against a potential surge in admissions due to the current record number of covid-19 infections, the... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3159.short | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Tests scramble as Nightingale ‘surge hubs’ thrown up amid Omicron spread → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrztn3/tests_scramble_as_nightingale_surge_hubs_thrown/ | 12:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron Isn't Going To Spare Us; It Will Be Tamed By Rising Immunity, Not Movement Curbs → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rrzy8h/omicron_isnt_going_to_spare_us_it_will_be_tamed/ | 13:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Woman vaccinated 4 times tests positive for COVID-19, stopped from boarding Dubai-bound flight from Indore → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rs0c00/woman_vaccinated_4_times_tests_positive_for/ | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Croatia: +5958 cases (now 709678), +27 deaths (now 12493), +14209 tests (now 3.7 million) since a day ago — Romania: +1497 cases (now 1.8 million), +37 deaths (now 58714), +39457 tests (now 17.1 million) since a day ago — Malta: +1353 cases (now 51070) since a day ago — Qatar: +542 cases (now 249787), +1 deaths (now 617), +6558 tests (now 3.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 13:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: J&J’s booster shot provides strong protection against severe disease from Omicron, a study says. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs0n10/jjs_booster_shot_provides_strong_protection/ | 13:44 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Grenada: +64 cases (now 6073), +933 tests (now 93030) since 13 hours ago | 14:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): New Danish Omicron study. Those unvaccinated are 2x as likely to get Omicron and 2x as likely to transmit it. So please do get your booster! twitter.com/LyngseF/status… pic.twitter.com/YwKrRIxDGi → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1476537501967958017 | 14:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): For Omicron wave in South Africa, 2-dose J&J vaccine effectiveness 85% (95% CI 54,95) vs hospitalization medrxiv.org/content/10.110… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476543563844317188 | 14:22 |
| skep | y0 | 14:32 |
| skep | Covidana | 14:33 |
| skep | %cases srilanka | 14:34 |
| Brainstorm | skep: the world has had 286.5 million confirmed cases (3.8% of all people) and 5.5 million deaths (1.9% of cases; 1 in 1395 people) as of 8 hours ago. 4.6 billion tests were done (6.2% positive). 3.3 billion were vaccinated (43.7%). +4 cases since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=the%20world&legacy=no | 14:34 |
| Brainstorm | skep: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about the world, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 14:34 |
| skep | LooljL | 14:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +2366 cases (now 759511), +2 deaths (now 2162), +425682 tests (now 110.9 million) since a day ago — Germany: +44802 cases (now 7.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 14:37 |
| skep | 5.5 million die in one day then it is called to ultrapandemic | 14:39 |
| skep | LooljL | 14:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): In the United States, since all adults were eligible for vaccination in April, there have been nearly 1,000 deaths a day, >>90% among unvaccinated people pic.twitter.com/a2Jz7QxzP6 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476550910574690304 | 14:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saudi Arabia: +752 cases (now 555417), +1 deaths (now 8875), +84568 tests (now 33.1 million) since a day ago | 15:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Clinical Severity of COVID-19 Patients Admitted to Hospitals in Gauteng, South Africa During the Omicron-Dominant Fourth Wavepapers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476554481575804937 | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Carolina Lucas (@carolilucas): Nosso preprint descreve a imunogenicidade do regime de vacinacao heterologa: 2 doses de CoronaVac seguidos pela dose de reforco com Pfizer .(verso em português )medrxiv.org/content/early/… → https://twitter.com/carolilucas/status/1476554911563268102 | 15:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Studies indicate J&J Covid-19 vaccine booster protects people against severe illness from Omicron variant → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs2r2e/studies_indicate_jj_covid19_vaccine_booster/ | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Reduced infectivity but increased immune escape of the new SARS-CoV-2 variant of concern Omicron → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rs2vyp/reduced_infectivity_but_increased_immune_escape/ | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): 2x J&J offers very good protection against Omicron; 85% against hospitalisation.medrxiv.org/content/10.110… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476563166452662275 | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Albert Bourla (@AlbertBourla): Earlier in the year we pledged to deliver 1B vaccine doses to low- and middle-income countries in 2021. I am happy to say that yesterday we achieved this goal. And we are ready to deliver even more next year. → https://twitter.com/AlbertBourla/status/1476565217786036224 | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Mexicans join bid for Covid-19 compensation from China, WHO | 30DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rs3iv0/mexicans_join_bid_for_covid19_compensation_from/ | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +1949 cases (now 1.3 million), +23 deaths (now 12688), +32538 tests (now 7.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Smithsonian Closes Five Museums Temporarily Due To COVID-19 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs3mg0/smithsonian_closes_five_museums_temporarily_due/ | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: CDC shortens isolation period as US cases hit record high: US cases of covid-19 hit a record daily average of 265 000 cases on 28 December, the highest number since the pandemic began two years ago, according to Johns Hopkins University.1 There were about... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3161.short | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Denmark: +21403 cases (now 791687), +9 deaths (now 3270) since 19 hours ago — United Kingdom: +70628 cases (now 12.6 million) since 20 hours ago | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 hospitalization surge among US children spurs new Omicron concerns → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/omicron-covid-children-hospitalization-7698666/ | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): New preprint on Covid impact in Gauteng. During #Omicron wave 17.68% of all recorded hospital admissions were children and teens under 20 years, vs 3.97% during second wave, 3.52% during third (Delta) wave. 5.8% of children and teens are vaxxed [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1476581879524564995 | 16:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): reuters.com/world/us/covid… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476586074885476364 | 17:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Calls to give NHS staff priority access to lateral flow tests → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59826812 | 17:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Portugal: +28659 cases (now 1.4 million), +16 deaths (now 18937), +591374 tests (now 26.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Morocco: +1960 cases (now 961058), +2 deaths (now 14844), +19740 tests (now 10.8 million) since 22 hours ago — Montenegro: +1747 cases (now 168328), +5 deaths (now 2407), +5169 tests (now 972372) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 17:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Psychological impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic on one-month postpartum mothers in a metropolitan area of Japan. → https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/publication/34963448 | 17:45 |
| aruns | https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/covid-19/understanding-immunogenicity.html | 17:47 |
| aruns | Tuvix: This seems to offer a reasonable distinction between the roles of antibodies and T cells | 17:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Greece: +35580 cases (now 1.2 million), +72 deaths (now 20708), +424682 tests (now 46.7 million) since a day ago | 18:09 |
| lastshell | I knew friends that gathered and got covid | 18:21 |
| xx | https://i.imgflip.com/5zip9z.jpg | 18:23 |
| xx | lastshell: ^ | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): With Omicron, there's been the emergence of 2 different camps with opposite perspectives. I've tried to summarize them here pic.twitter.com/UAQ2hqo4Eo → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476602067904974865 | 18:24 |
| lastshell | but is strange I know folks who are vaxxed all family and they also got covid | 18:27 |
| mrdata | lastshell, how are they doing? | 18:27 |
| mrdata | the vaccines dont totally eliminate risk of infection but they reduce risk of hospitalization and death | 18:29 |
| mrdata | plus how long after vaccination did they get it | 18:30 |
| lastshell | no idea | 18:30 |
| mrdata | the protection wanes after several months | 18:30 |
| lastshell | yeah im aware of that | 18:31 |
| lastshell | I been boosterizaed | 18:31 |
| mrdata | also coronaviruses are RNA, so they mutate very fast | 18:31 |
| mrdata | i'm terrified of omicron as i havent been able to get my booster yet | 18:32 |
| lastshell | I got in nov 22 | 18:32 |
| lastshell | so I know my antibodies are ok now but they will decline soon | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Beyond case counts: What Omicron is teaching us: Experts say the U.S. has a ways to go to get through the Omicron surge. Here, STAT outlines what Omicron is already teaching us as this phase of the pandemic… → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/30/beyond-case-counts-what-omicron-is-teaching-us/ | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Luxembourg: +1230 cases (now 102486), +1 deaths (now 912), +4444 tests (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Jamaica: +365 cases (now 93591), +1 deaths (now 2470) since 23 hours ago — Cuba: +328 cases (now 965571), +1 deaths (now 8322) since 20 hours ago — Greenland: +173 cases (now 2610), +2524 tests (now 138127) since a day ago | 18:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): O signs (|) all over the world (here 4 continents, 20 countries) as Omicron continues on its path to global dominanceft.com/content/0baf11… @donatopmancini @jburnmurdoch @stef_palma pic.twitter.com/21mQPghMcl → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476610692987822080 | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +4947 cases (now 184219), +8 deaths (now 1996), +11500 tests (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — Sierra Leone: +92 cases (now 6983) since 23 hours ago — Niger: +24 cases (now 7331) since a day ago | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. FDA expected to approve Pfizer boosters for 12-15 year-olds Monday -NYT → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs7jrz/us_fda_expected_to_approve_pfizer_boosters_for/ | 19:11 |
| LjL | from 98k yesterday to 126k today in Italy :| | 19:15 |
| xx | that's another record, isn't it? :\ | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | Are those day-to-day numbers meaningful? | 19:20 |
| Arsanerit | In particular when there are holidays around? | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Immunogenicity of heterologous BNT162b2 booster in fully vaccinated individuals with CoronaVac against SARS-CoV-2 variants Delta and Omicron: the Dominican Republic Experience → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rs7wet/immunogenicity_of_heterologous_bnt162b2_booster/ | 19:21 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i think they've settled down, the first day after the numbers were exceedingly low (due to low testing) i would have considered unreliable, but now it's just going up in a very obvious way | 19:24 |
| LjL | xx, i believe so | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Theo Sanderson (@theosanderson): Another mid-week update to covid19.sanger.ac.uk (thanks to @msinnott123, @richgoater, et al). That was fast. pic.twitter.com/eyNYh1ERUH → https://twitter.com/theosanderson/status/1476619436585070605 | 19:30 |
| LjL | "That was fast" — Omicron, on itself | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +127000 cases (now 6.0 million), +156 deaths (now 137247), +1150352 tests (now 138.9 million) since a day ago | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Israel to offer 4th vaccine dose to most vulnerable → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs8e1f/israel_to_offer_4th_vaccine_dose_to_most/ | 19:39 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Sputnik V shows 80% long-term efficacy against COVID in San Marino from 6th through 8th month after administering the second dose ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/IV7Q7TSC ) | 19:47 | |
| lastshell | where I am we got 2,000 covid new cases yesterday (Clark Country AKA Las Vegas) | 19:48 |
| lastshell | https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/clark-county/clark-county-sees-highest-1-day-covid-case-increase-in-nearly-a-year-2504164/ | 19:48 |
| lastshell | oh 2,201 new cases | 19:49 |
| lastshell | and those are the ones we know because they tested Im sure the number is higher | 19:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID-19 update: Florida reports 77,848 new cases, a 66% increase from record set one day earlier → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs8jx1/covid19_update_florida_reports_77848_new_cases_a/ | 19:49 |
| xx | if those sputnik reports can be trusted, then it would mean it's the best vaccine out there | 19:52 |
| xx | is that possible? | 19:52 |
| LjL | xx, i don't know, it's just their press release and the RDIF being involved doesn't make me too thrilled, let's see if San Marino actually *published* this study at some point... then we'll also know whether they simply based it on | 19:56 |
| LjL | "The hospitalization rate with COVID infection following vaccination with Sputnik V in San Marino was only 0.75 per 1,000 people during the entire mass vaccination in the country from February to November 2021. This rate is more than 2 times lower than that of any other vaccine used in the country." | 19:56 |
| LjL | which would be a bit ridiculous lacking normalization/matching by age ranges and so on | 19:57 |
| LjL | but i thought there was barely any information on Sputnik, and i routinely include major announcements by vaccine makers into the press releases folder, so may as well this one. if one reads it cursorily but critically i think it should be apparent it's begging for more actual data to be provided | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. CDC says people should 'avoid cruise travel, regardless of vaccination status' → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs8svr/us_cdc_says_people_should_avoid_cruise_travel/ | 19:59 |
| xx | well said | 20:00 |
| LjL | xx, on the other hand, the UK was also trying to say that AZ may offer better protection in time and against Omicron after all, as that might explain why the UK is seeing few hospitalizations despite cases. which came a while after AZ said their vaccine would be perfectly suited for use as a booster... it *also* left me perplexed as to what agenda is behind it. but, it's also possible that these adenovirus vector vaccines have some hidden good surprises | 20:00 |
| xx | I wonder if people in russia/china have the same questions about our vaccines - whether the reports about them can be trusted at all | 20:00 |
| LjL | maybe. a guy from China came here a couple of times, he seemed very informed about what was going on internationally but wondering whether Delta should be considered a threat (it was back when Delta was starting to appear in China), and he could also interestingly defend the way China does things *despite* knowing seemingly quite well how the west does things | 20:02 |
| LjL | but i think he also candidly asked whether SinoVac would be worth anything against Delta, and accepted my answer of "given the mRNA ones aren't so good either... my guess would be not very, so brace for impact" | 20:03 |
| LjL | (impact didn't come) | 20:03 |
| xx | impact didn't come, as far as we know | 20:03 |
| LjL | well, yeah, unfortunately even though he's been the *only* person from China here with fluent English and stuff, he didn't return to tell us how it was actually going | 20:03 |
| LjL | but aside from being worried about the impact of Delta, his impression was thing had been going well | 20:04 |
| xx | if only there was an international agency that would provide trusted information on disease spread... | 20:04 |
| xx | one that would be accepted in the west as well as the east | 20:04 |
| LjL | sorry, who? | 20:04 |
| xx | heh | 20:04 |
| LjL | but i personally believe that China has few cases | 20:05 |
| LjL | when they *do* have some cases, they lock down cities of 13 million, consistently | 20:05 |
| xx | I'm tempted to believe that too, because I know how strict things can be over there, but it's still at the back of my mind whether I should really trust it | 20:05 |
| LjL | and we do get to learn about it, including some hyperbole from the Daily Mail on how people are starving because they're not allowed out | 20:05 |
| xx | I mean, they have so many people, and massive population density in many places, yet have so few cases in comparison? Just weird. | 20:06 |
| LjL | weird, sure | 20:06 |
| LjL | but seeing how i can *see* some of the very obvious failures of our governments in handling this whole thing... repeatedly, consistently, inevitably | 20:06 |
| LjL | then i think i prefer to be humble and think we probably have some things to learn from China *on how to handle the pandemic*, not just on how to hide data | 20:07 |
| xx | well it definitely raises a lot of eyebrows in the west whenever someone mentions that perhaps we should look at how china handled stuff | 20:07 |
| LjL | doesn't mean i want people's doors welded shut (assuming that ever really happened), it shouldn't be an "all or nothing" deal, we could learn *some* things and use them ;( | 20:07 |
| xx | and I don't know what to think of that reaction | 20:07 |
| xx | like, I really don't know if it's actually true that they paraded those lockdown breakers in the streets | 20:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: About 25% of Ohio coronavirus tests are coming back positive. Gov. Mike DeWine says actual positivity is higher. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs8vjy/about_25_of_ohio_coronavirus_tests_are_coming/ | 20:08 |
| xx | or whatever else those people did to "deserve that" | 20:08 |
| LjL | in some places in democratic India, people were made to do strenuous physical exercise in the street by police as a punishment for breaking lockdown rules... | 20:09 |
| LjL | (not just India, i've heard of this sort of thing from elsewhere too, but i forget where) | 20:09 |
| xx | I've heard of that from russia too, but it might have just been isolated incidents | 20:09 |
| xx | or PR stuff, can't really tell | 20:10 |
| LjL | isolated incidents, unapproved policies from local governments... that's kind of also what China says when people get threated harshly by local authorities | 20:10 |
| LjL | such as when there started being a bit of scandal because the pets of people under quarantine were allegedly getting killed | 20:11 |
| xx | I remember that | 20:11 |
| LjL | since there was backlash from the actual people upon learning of that (and you know, people can accepts all sorts of abuse but don't touch their pets), the central government "punished" local governments that had gone to such excesses | 20:11 |
| LjL | is it true it wasn't approved from higher up, is it not, does it matter | 20:12 |
| LjL | xx, i also get befuddled at most of the reactions to that pet (getting killed) peeve of mine, i.e. what the hell is China actually doing, and why, when they "disinfect streets" and malls and so on. i understand that if people don't know, they won't meaningfully answer that, but the vibe i get is almost always "who cares? they're probably just doing something stupid" | 20:15 |
| LjL | but... they're doing some things we don't even bother to look at. they also aren't having cases. correlation is not causation, but it usually deserves some attention | 20:15 |
| Arsanerit | If you don't test you have no cases ;-) | 20:15 |
| LjL | see, my point | 20:16 |
| LjL | they actually tested like 10 million people in a day, repeatedly, because they do pooled testing of entire cities | 20:16 |
| Arsanerit | Nobody knows what omicron is doing in germany. | 20:16 |
| LjL | yet you can say something silly like that | 20:16 |
| xx | animals probably spread coronavirus, but we're not ready to have that discussion in the west | 20:16 |
| xx | because people are pet lovers, not animal lovers | 20:17 |
| LjL | sorry, yes, it's silly, because you're saying that as a knee-jerk reaction to hearing "China" and "don't have cases", not from knowledge of what testing they actually do or not do | 20:17 |
| Arsanerit | People accept a lot more restrictions for pets than for humans. | 20:17 |
| Arsanerit | It's been standard practice for decades that pets going to the UK have to quarantine. | 20:17 |
| xx | it is *proven* that animals get infected by corona, we just don't know for sure whether they spread it on a regular basis back to humans | 20:17 |
| Arsanerit | Animals don't go to night clubs. | 20:17 |
| Arsanerit | Pets do not gather in groups of one thousand individuals. | 20:17 |
| xx | Arsanerit: I've sure seen a bunch of rats in night clubs over the years | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron Update: NY Shatters COVID Case Record for 2nd Straight Day, Hospitalizations Rise → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rs97cp/omicron_update_ny_shatters_covid_case_record_for/ | 20:18 |
| Arsanerit | xx: 1000 all close together? | 20:18 |
| xx | Arsanerit: there are pet daycares, there are people who walk your pets on a leash, where there are 20 dogs in close proximity | 20:18 |
| xx | there are pet groomers | 20:18 |
| xx | etc. | 20:18 |
| LjL | xx, yes, but here too what gets me mad is instead of saying "we don't know for sure whether cats spread it back to humans", it's "there's no evidence cats spread it back to humans" which VERY QUICKLY turns into "pets can't spread it to humans" (including in my own government's FAQ) | 20:18 |
| Arsanerit | xx: Exists, but is pretty minor compared to humans gathering. | 20:18 |
| xx | could still make for a superspreader event probably | 20:19 |
| LjL | animals can spread disease that didn't exist in a given places *especially* when that place is an island | 20:19 |
| Arsanerit | It seems pretty clear that the overwhelming way of spread is human to human. | 20:19 |
| xx | I know schools that have pets for the kids, and those pets come into contact with a lot of kids... | 20:19 |
| LjL | animal quarantine for islands is an extremely sound measure | 20:19 |
| Arsanerit | The kids come into contact with each other without any pets. | 20:19 |
| xx | those kids might not be touching each other as much though | 20:20 |
| Arsanerit | Sure, I can see how pets may contribute in some case or another, but I don't see how it's significant compared to human-human contact. | 20:20 |
| Arsanerit | Humans travel around a *lot* more, and faster. | 20:20 |
| xx | human-human contact is of course the main issue, I just find it puzzling how little is being talked about the animal-human contact | 20:20 |
| xx | china/india/russia/whatever places are doing something about it, but with little info as to *why* | 20:21 |
| xx | LjL: yeah, I've spotted that rhetoric too, where "There's no evidence that X happens" gets turned into "X can't happen" | 20:22 |
| LjL | xx, i think i can give you a plausible reason why it's downplayed, although that doesn't mean i find it a *good* reason as i'm generally against these "white lies": they know that, for now at least (but also for a long time to come...) human-to-human will be the main issue, they know it's hard to prove cat-to-human transmission, and they know if they told people their pets *can* infect them, there would be a sudden spike of abadoned pets, an even worse reservoir | 20:22 |
| Arsanerit | There is no evidence that aliens helped humans build the pyramids. | 20:23 |
| Arsanerit | There is no evidence that aliens have abducted humans. | 20:23 |
| LjL | not sure what point you're making with that comparison | 20:23 |
| xx | perhaps, sounds like a believable reason why they'd do it. Or they think that humans wouldn't part with or treat the pets anyway, so there'd be little point. | 20:23 |
| xx | but at the same time they know humans will fail with a lot of other restrictions, yet they still try to apply those | 20:24 |
| LjL | obviously, lacking evidence for something *can* mean that thing just isn't true. it just doesn't have to, and in some cases there can be a lack of evidence but plenty of common-sense hints | 20:24 |
| LjL | xx, well i think a rational reaction would be to stop letting cats outside for instance. if i had a cat i wouldn't want it to get COVID from other cats and then give it to me, but if the cat were always in my apartment then that would be a non-issue. | 20:25 |
| Arsanerit | I'm not making any point, sorry. | 20:25 |
| LjL | although apparently when cats are used to going outside, it's pretty tricky to make them stop... | 20:25 |
| Arsanerit | It's also pretty tricky to make humans stop. | 20:25 |
| xx | pets are special | 20:26 |
| xx | non-pet animals are killed off even on a suspicion (those mink and some other animals, can't remember which ones) | 20:26 |
| xx | we do the same with birds whenever there's the avian flu going around | 20:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): This is what world dominance looks like! The impressive force of something so small, yet so powerful; SARS-CoV-2 O.ft.com/content/0baf11… pic.twitter.com/eAO5TmphOU → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476634389668843528 | 20:27 |
| xx | well, we're finally flattening the curve I guess | 20:31 |
| LjL | vertically? | 20:34 |
| oerheks | 2 days ago 1.3m and yesterday 1.6m .. flat up? | 20:34 |
| xx | LjL: yeah :\ | 20:35 |
| xx | uh | 20:35 |
| xx | yeah :| | 20:35 |
| LjL | xx, i stole it https://twitter.com/BrainstormBot/status/1476638093436465163 | 20:35 |
| xx | it's definitely a valid observation | 20:36 |
| xx | on those graphs, I can't see how far into december they went | 20:37 |
| xx | and ft.com does not mention it | 20:37 |
| LjL | xx, but it's an article from today and it says it's a 7-day rolling average and it mentions "The US seven-day rolling average of cases neared 300,000 on Wednesday" so i think they must be recent | 20:42 |
| LjL | xx, also since you're usanian, https://biobot.io/data/ | 20:43 |
| LjL | i wonder if the discrepancy with official data during the current wave is due to omicron having more viral load | 20:43 |
| LjL | that graph used to be pretty overlapping | 20:43 |
| LjL | it's clear during the *first* wave there just wasn't enough testing, so the wastewater graph is higher | 20:44 |
| LjL | but then they were matching | 20:44 |
| LjL | now it's much higher again | 20:44 |
| xx | I wonder if they ignored the last 7 day average, due to the issues with testing | 20:44 |
| LjL | (matching though the wastewater graph has some predictive power on the case graph) | 20:44 |
| xx | it's "funny" how they say not to worry about omicron, because it doesn't cause high viral load in lung tissue (but instead higher up in bronchi), but we possibly see such a *massive* increase in wastewater (hence intestinal mucous tissue) | 20:46 |
| xx | which would indicate it has higher load in all sorts of other tissues | 20:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: The hyper-transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant exhibits significant antigenic change, vaccine escape and a switch in cell entry mechanism → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rs9yqb/the_hypertransmissible_sarscov2_omicron_variant/ | 20:46 |
| LjL | switch in cell entry mechanism? O.O | 20:47 |
| xx | if I was a betting person, I'd say omicron is definitely sexually transmitted due to all the mucous tissue involved | 20:47 |
| LjL | then i'm safe | 20:47 |
| xx | I guess official advice will ignore this aspect, due to nobody probably masking up anyway during sex | 20:48 |
| LjL | %tell de-facto this new study https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_829360_smxx.pdf talks about Omicron having a "different cell entry mechanism", you might understand better as i have no idea what TMPRSS2 is in the first place | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass de-facto your message when they are around. | 20:49 |
| LjL | xx, just make it into a fetish | 20:49 |
| xx | oh I wish that... latex(?) or whatever fetish it is was more common, where people already wear masks | 20:50 |
| xx | goth? | 20:50 |
| xx | I'm not up to date on these things | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covid vaccines rarely lead to problems in younger children, according to two C.D.C. reports. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsa0pd/covid_vaccines_rarely_lead_to_problems_in_younger/ | 20:56 |
| Tuvix | Daily US hospital new COVID-19 admissions now above 10k daily, an influx rate not seen since the 10-Aug to 20-Sept range. | 20:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Less disease in mice (green = Omicron) pic.twitter.com/XLCM5EpJsr → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476643587446218752 | 21:14 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: The SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.529 Omicron virus causes attenuated infection and disease in mice and hamsters ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/NMXE2ATZ ) | 21:22 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Russia’s COVID-19 death toll crosses 650K, second highest in the world → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsaq3a/russias_covid19_death_toll_crosses_650k_second/ | 21:24 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: And this is the 6th independent study that shows reduced pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 Omicron compared to other VoCs.. The SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.529 Omicron virus causes attenuated infection and disease in mice and hamsters https://t.co/qay5WmCzAd ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/U3FTF4PG ) | 21:32 | |
| xx | I should not have laughed but did https://twitter.com/MashezJ/status/1473858373766504452 | 21:33 |
| * LjL BSODs xx | 21:34 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Economist analysis estimates that China's real Covid death numbers may be up to 17,000% higher than their official numbers → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsb50c/economist_analysis_estimates_that_chinas_real/ | 21:34 |
| LjL | okay let's read that one | 21:34 |
| LjL | and also report it, because they changed the headline | 21:34 |
| xx | why does Brainstorm sometimes do www.reddit and sometimes old.reddit ? | 21:35 |
| LjL | oh i already had that article | 21:36 |
| LjL | xx, because i'm inconsistent | 21:36 |
| LjL | i'll make them all old., new interface is terrible | 21:36 |
| LjL | but... well, that'll be bad for people on mobile, i guess | 21:37 |
| * LjL-Matrix wonders if teddit provides up to date RSS feeds too | 21:39 | |
| LjL | nope :( https://codeberg.org/teddit/teddit/issues/3 | 21:40 |
| LjL | oh, yep-ish? | 21:41 |
| LjL | let's just boldly give it a try | 21:42 |
| LjL | teddit looks okay both on desktop and on mobile, and also respects my dark theeme | 21:42 |
| LjL | theeeeeeeeme | 21:42 |
| LjL | hmm it doesn't respect limit=, that's an issue | 21:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: UK Covid case numbers hit another record high at more than 189,000 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsbkid/uk_covid_case_numbers_hit_another_record_high_at/ | 22:03 |
| Timvde | LjL: use www and let people choose? | 22:03 |
| Timvde | I mean, I think new reddit is terrible too, so I set it to the old interface in my settings | 22:03 |
| LjL | it only lets people with an account choose | 22:04 |
| Timvde | There are also add-ons that do the redirect | 22:05 |
| Timvde | On the subreddit I moderate, there are more new reddit users than old reddit users fwiw | 22:05 |
| LjL | Timvde, without an account, i noticed on the (new) mobile UI you aren't even allowed to view some things when you try to click on them, it basically gives you a view of a subreddit but then wants you to make an account :( | 22:07 |
| LjL | which i find beyond awful, although twitter and facebook and friends do that too, but reddit used to be a bit different | 22:07 |
| LjL | if i can get teddit to work i think i would prefer that, but i'd definitely need a way to limit the feed length | 22:07 |
| Timvde | Right o_o | 22:07 |
| LjL | feedparser is awfully slow | 22:08 |
| Tuvix | New reddit is awful even _with_ an account, since many threads demand you "click to follow conversation" or w/e, and I've had it do that twice in a row only showing me a single new comment at once. | 22:08 |
| Timvde | Stupid Reddit | 22:08 |
| Tuvix | It seems they want to use that to figure out thread retention, but it's so user-hostile. | 22:08 |
| Timvde | Tuvix: use old Reddit | 22:08 |
| Tuvix | Right, I do, except when I'm signed out, which I am not infrequently since I despise tracking. | 22:08 |
| Timvde | Old Reddit is bad on mobile, wow | 22:09 |
| Timvde | I just use Slide, it's a really nice app :) | 22:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, actually... yeah it's bad, but i purposefully use it on mobile (and then use it horizontally and zoom in and out a lot) because it still makes more sense to me than the new one | 22:09 |
| Timvde | Try Slide, for real, it's a life changer | 22:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Thursday December 30 2021 Update → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/rsc4g7/thursday_december_30_2021_update/ | 22:12 |
| anarchat | hi | 22:14 |
| anarchat | is there any information about omicron's impact on children? | 22:14 |
| Tuvix | anarchat: Depends a bit where you are, but I can tell you from US / CDC data that I follow more closely than more broad global trends, that hospitalizations are rising in children and a number of hospitals and doctors are currently concerned about that. The severe outcomes so far seem mostly limited to the unvaccinated / undervaccinated, or in rare cases those vaccinated but with co-morbidities. | 22:19 |
| Tuvix | anarchat: SOme CDC data here can show you graphs of new hospital admissions by age, and you can see the very sharp rise recently yourself: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions | 22:20 |
| Tuvix | It's still less rare than in older age-groups, but the main concern is that since Omicron is *so* good at spreading, more infected plus a higher rate of hospitalizations means we're going to see more children in hospitals, and if trends hold, the majority of those will be unvaccinated. | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): I’m probably a bit late to the party here, and it's taken a long time for this to appear on the dashboard, but finally 90% of those aged 12+ in the UK have now received at least one COVID-19 vaccine.Link: coronavirus.data.gov.uk pic.twitter.com/vwWUXctW3D → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1476660479284199425 | 22:21 |
| Tuvix | Excuse me, more rare in children vs. older age groups, broadly speaking. | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: “Our absences are through the roof. And the patients are so sick — not just with covid but with everything. It’s so, so bad,” Ranney added. “The next few weeks are going to be terrifying for patients and families and providers.” → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rscalw/our_absences_are_through_the_roof_and_the/ | 22:31 |
| Tuvix | I guess the goal for the rest of us is try not to need hospital services even for non-COVID things. Walk carefully on ice and drive safely… | 22:37 |
| Arsanerit | And don't get cancer. | 22:38 |
| Tuvix | Reduced screaning for cancer and all the other regular tests are going to impact outcomes for years to come I suspect, yea. | 22:38 |
| Arsanerit | Although if the only care you need is outpatient care you're less affected by ICU overloading. | 22:38 |
| Tuvix | Some hospitals here in the states are canceling basically any surgery that isn't currently life-critical. | 22:39 |
| Arsanerit | I know someone who is under cancer treatment and neither during diagnosis nor during therapy did she notice much overloading, because her therapy does not involve surgery, only chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and immunotherapy, none of which need intensive care units. | 22:39 |
| Arsanerit | But if all the nurses are sick with covid-19 it still sucks, of course. | 22:39 |
| Arsanerit | So make sure you don't need surgery. | 22:40 |
| Tuvix | I had family that is (currently, anyway) cancer-free, but she had some follow-up surgery that was frankly fairly important but not "critical" directly to the cancer care. The pushed back her surgery in 2020 for almost 4 months, and the doctor just scheduled some other surgery in her old slot. | 22:40 |
| Arsanerit | Not sure why they would have reduced screening seeing that screening does not involve the same parts of hospitals as ICUs do. Maybe because hospitals have relocated staff from ambulatory care wards to stationary care wards? | 22:40 |
| Tuvix | I think it's multiple factors, but staff stress at most levels of healthcare surely plays a part. Patients putting off scheduling due to travel to hospitals may also be part of that. | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | Maybe. | 22:45 |
| Tuvix | If you don't have access to a high-quality mask I can see wanting to limit exposure, but the risks of putting off screenings is also bad. | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | Well, and maybe some people deprioritise themselves. | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | They hear about busy places, and think, "my screening is purely preventative, I can wait another half year" | 22:46 |
| Tuvix | Right, although the flip side of that is that, for some portion of positive screenings, that 6 months could make a huge difference in treatment options or effectiveness. | 22:47 |
| Arsanerit | True. | 22:47 |
| Arsanerit | One could save lives by screening everybody every 3 months, but it's not realistic. | 22:47 |
| Tuvix | Sure, but putting off regular care is rarely good. | 22:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: As staff cases spike, Feds press for nursing home COVID boosters → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rscrcf/as_staff_cases_spike_feds_press_for_nursing_home/ | 22:50 |
| Arsanerit | Tuvix: Not sure. Some people go to the doctor and even the urgent care place for minor problems when they should just stay home with some tea and blankets and plenty of rest. | 22:53 |
| Tuvix | Some, but a bigger issue is that some use the urgent care or ERs to get care becuase they don't have insurance and can't get seen by a "regular" doctor. I have family who works in the mental health sector, and that's suprisingly common by people in that situation. | 22:54 |
| Tuvix | ER's legally can't turn someone away, at least until they've been checked out to ensure they aren't going to die hours later. That's a dreadfully expensive way to get non-emergency care though. | 22:55 |
| Arsanerit | That is a problem specific to the USA if I'm not mistaken. | 22:56 |
| Tuvix | Yes, thanks to largely for-profit health care providers and a very opaque insurance framework. | 22:56 |
| Arsanerit | At least I've not heard of this problem in Germany, where insurance is mandatory. | 22:56 |
| Arsanerit | And to cover the standard stuff is mandatory for any health insurance. | 22:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): And earlier than that, virologists already said that the possibility of escaped mutant viruses should be minimized by careful monitoring and combination with other drugs, but the latter is not approved.uk.news.yahoo.com/covid-pill-bei… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1476673786527117326 | 23:00 |
| Dredd | I saw someone on Twitter doomsaying that Omicron somehow evades the complement system (presumably the antibody mediated stuff?) | 23:05 |
| ecks | i, too, evaded the complement system in school | 23:06 |
| Dredd | But I've searched and can't find any info about this so i guess they made it up | 23:06 |
| Dredd | Still, an interesting depth of knowledge required to make up. In my experience very few of the general public know about complement | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): Apparent protection provided by 2-shot vaccine falls.Based on cases in Ontario Canada through Dec 30, a 2-shot vaccine is now associated with:85.6% less risk of hospitalizationcompared to unvaccinated.(That is down sharply from 90.4% yesterday.) [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/1476675455977623552 | 23:09 |
| LjL | Dredd, not sure if it's that, but i added a paper about Alpha featuring some kind of immune suppression (more than evasion), and it mentions Delta and Omicron do as well https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1211792/v1 | 23:12 |
| LjL | maybe this one is a little closer https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.03.471045v2 | 23:15 |
| Tuvix | Dredd: You're talking the various antibody treatments? My understanding is that a couple of those are almost entierly ineffective against Omicron, but at least 1 in common use (at least here in the US) remains effective, and another retains some effectiveness. | 23:16 |
| LjL | idiot https://twitter.com/buildwithjoe/status/1476317266849370112 | 23:18 |
| LjL | i believe he's talking about evading part of the host's regular immune system, not treatments | 23:19 |
| LjL | but who knows since it's just a claim somewhere on twitter :P | 23:19 |
| Tuvix | Here's an interview with a physician who seems to know what he's talking about from a COVID-specific treatment center: https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/12/24/omicron-treatment-sotrovimab-monoclonal-antibodies | 23:20 |
| Tuvix | Here's a key quote, "the omicron variant acquired resistance to Regeneron monoclonal antibodies that were highly effective against the delta variant. So fortunately, there is another monoclonal antibody called sotrovimab, which still holds the neutralization capacity against omicron and is now the only effective monoclonal antibody therapy." | 23:20 |
| Tuvix | And given limited supply, deciding who gets the therapies seems to be a concern too: | 23:22 |
| Tuvix | "So any patient who is elderly, who is unvaccinated, who has a higher BMI, or any patient with a suppressed immune system owing to their disease state, or being on any immunosuppressive medication are [considered higher risk for severe outcomes.]" | 23:22 |
| LjL | botspam incoming due to https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476671194141179904 | 23:22 |
| Tuvix | That reads to me like the unvaccinated who end up with more likely serious outcomes will be competing with supply for the vaccinated but still-at-risk. | 23:22 |
| Tuvix | Do you give the therapy to the immunosuppressed fully vaccinated patient, or the unvaccinated one, if it's a matter of choosing? :\ | 23:23 |
| LjL | Tuvix, another potential problem i know of is that you usually try to use *cocktails* of monoclonal antibodies because if you use just one, there's just one barriier to evasion of that one, and you risk the virus to mutate and make that one useless too | 23:23 |
| Tuvix | (and yes, I realize that it's not exactly that black & white in practicve) | 23:23 |
| LjL | so it's not great that sotrovimab is basically the only one left | 23:23 |
| Tuvix | Right. I mean, there's also Pfizer's paxlovid, but that's very time-sensitive and mostly relies on people getting tested soon enough. | 23:24 |
| Tuvix | My gut is that if you're not getting vaccinated, you're probably also not in the group of people following public health guidance on testing either. | 23:24 |
| Tuvix | Maybe requirements on schools and some employers for testing will help catch some of that. | 23:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: South Africa says that it has passed its fourth wave of cases, and counts few added deaths → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsdpjt/south_africa_says_that_it_has_passed_its_fourth/ | 23:28 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2 Omicron spike mediated immune escape, infectivity and cell-cell fusion ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/A37FA6DE ) | 23:32 | |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): The seven-day average “by date of death” remains 98 today. The “reported” number has jumped up as expected due to the Christmas backlog being added back in.We don’t yet know what impact Omicron will have (most of these deaths are probably with [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1476680547866918917 | 23:38 |
| LjL | uuuh... oh https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476683699043422212 can someone please confirm that my message likely confused him but that i do mean that the *separate* paper https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_829360_smxx.pdf is similar to his #2? i don't want to say that and then find out i'm just showing how my brain is crashing together with my browser tabs :P | 23:40 |
| LjL | it looks like two papers that cover a few of the same subjects but two different papers. basically i'm asking, he didn't mention https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_829360_smxx.pdf in either of his tweets, right? | 23:41 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: The omicron (B.1.1.529) SARS-CoV-2 variant of concern does not readily infect Syrian hamsters ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/23WQRP28 ) | 23:47 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: High Rate of Asymptomatic Carriage Associated with Variant Strain Omicron ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/EMKXKUCN ) | 23:47 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2 Omicron-B.1.1.529 Variant leads to less severe disease than Pango B and Delta variants strains in a mouse model of severe COVID-19 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/RU9JH2VH ) | 23:52 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: COVID-19 Vaccine Safety in Children Aged 5–11 Years — United States, November 3–December 19, 2021 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rseb9s/covid19_vaccine_safety_in_children_aged_511_years/ | 23:57 |
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