libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2021-12-31

ublxLjL: you're probably right that he took the rapid glance view of your tweet. don't think it's worth belabouring the point since a second glance likely got the point00:02
LjLuh-oh Paxlovid affected? https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rs9yqb/the_hypertransmissible_sarscov2_omicron_variant/hqlk63r/?context=300:02
LjLublx, oh, i was about to tweet him about it after double checking00:03
ublxwell you never know00:03
ublxbut it seems like one of those things were you go ooh, ahh, hrm00:04
LjLublx, "I might be confused by all the browser tabs, but I meant that THIS paper https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_829360_smxx.pdf ("The hyper-transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant exhibits significant antigenic change, vaccine escape and a switch in cell entry mechanism", Glasgow) seems related to your 2." ← rude?00:04
ublxbut then ultimately wonder if it isn't too obvious to bother clarifying00:04
LjLublx, these people tweet a lot of things00:04
LjLhe has several tweets just in the past two minutes :P00:04
ublxlol ok00:04
ublxyou can't know if you don't ask, i guess00:05
LjLmeh, worst thing he'll feel slightly annoyed and still not look at the link, i guess00:05
LjLhis loss since i'm just about smart enough to figure out a lot of keywords in it match the one he's linked :P00:06
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron is 'not the same disease' as previous Covid variants, Oxford University scientist says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rselfq/omicron_is_not_the_same_disease_as_previous_covid/00:06
LjLoxford pls00:06
LjLif you want to get into semantics go to... uh, oxford or something00:07
xxuh00:08
xxguess we shouldn't call it covid-19 anymore00:08
xxcovid-21?00:08
LjLxx, really when you read the article he was just using a figure of speech in passing, and they made it into a headline00:15
LjLdidn't find it a very interesting article though00:15
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Science: Preliminary data suggests two doses of J&J vaccine help with omicron → https://arstechnica.com/00:16
xxLjL: I said it only kinda half-way in reference to that article00:16
xxthe 19 bugs me a bit00:16
xxbecause the symptoms have changed a bit since then00:16
LjLit's definitely not the only virus with variants00:17
LjLbut i think it would be a bit farfetched to consider omicron a "different virus"00:17
xxis the original wild strain extinct?00:17
LjLi'm not sure00:17
xxoh not different virus but different disease00:17
xxi.e. not corona, but covid (corona ... disease)00:18
LjLwell, the thing is... you could call it maybe COVID-19 B00:18
LjLand COVID-19 A would be the original00:18
xx-19.rev200:18
LjLbut still the -19 part is defined as being the disease caused by SARS-COV-2, and it's definitely still SARS-COV-200:18
xxor something creative00:18
LjLthe -19 part is unfortunate imo because it's barely even named in full anymore00:18
xxbut I see your point00:18
LjLand... if we *did* have an entirely new coronavirus still, they'd probably have to call it something other than "COVID-xx" for the masses not to make confusion00:19
xxhonestly I found it a bit odd that it even started at -1900:19
LjL(including me in the masses)00:19
LjLafter all SARS isn't called COVID-03 (or whichever year applies). i know, the WHO changed naming schemes a few times because that's all they can do, but... next time they just might have to do it again :P00:20
xxlet's hope there isn't a next time00:21
xxbut there definitely will be a next time, and I'd bet the response would be same or perhaps worse00:22
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: DECRETO-LEGGE 30 dicembre 2021, n.229: Misure urgenti per il contenimento della diffusione dell'epidemia  daCOVID-19  e  disposizioni  in  materia  di  sorveglianza   sanitaria.(21G00258) → http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2021/12/30/21G00258/SG00:25
BrainstormNew from NPR: People should avoid cruise travel regardless of their vaccination status, the CDC says: The CDC revised its guidance Thursday, as 91 cruise ships are under investigation for COVID outbreaks onboard. Most cruise lines require adult passengers to show [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/30/1069253312/cdc-cruise-ship-travel-covid-1900:35
xxdid... did they seriously accept vaccination certificate as proof of non-infectivity?00:40
xxon a cruise ship00:40
Spec_people should avoid cruise ships regardless of the pandemic00:40
xxthat too is a good point, yeah00:41
xxincidentally, if anyone wants to travel the world on a ship, I can offer you that opportunity00:41
xxyou just might need to learn some stuff and do some work00:41
* xx runs a shipping thing00:41
LjLSpec_, people should avoid people regardless of people00:43
Spec_people should00:44
LjLxx, also yes there are a bunch of cruise ships all infected currently00:44
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Travelers infected one another across hallway in Covid-19 quarantine facility, New Zealand research shows → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsfcli/travelers_infected_one_another_across_hallway_in/00:44
LjLthe fact that the first out-of-china parts of this pandemic *started* on a cruise ship seems to be lost on these people00:45
LjLoh bleh00:46
xxI remember when there were daily updates on number of infected on two cruise ships00:46
user27Darwin Awards00:46
xxI remember when countries airlifted their own citizens out of corona zones00:47
xxit was a strange time back when nobody really know what this covid thing is gonna be like00:47
xxjanuary 2020, never forget00:47
LjLthat Gazzetta Ufficiale bulletin contains a law that seems to toughen restrictions (hard to tell exactly how since it's written in the legalese that's like "the words blah blah are removed from the previous law's section 1") for fairs, events, and ski resorts among other things...00:47
LjL... starting from 10 January :|00:47
lastshellI recall some news about some animals getting covid00:49
LjLbe more specific, a few animals have gotten covid ;(00:49
lastshellmy bad I was scrolling but the conversation shifted00:49
LjLthere were news about deer in Ohio yesterday i think00:49
lastshellalso some tigers in some zoo in USA00:50
LjLyeah but like, it's a sort of thing that's been reported several times00:50
LjLit's pretty established by now that a few species do easily get infected00:50
lastshellis possible that from human -> animal -> human covid transfer occur ?00:50
lastshelland in the process mutate ?00:51
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID-19 deaths in Eastern Europe surpass 1 million → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsfmey/covid19_deaths_in_eastern_europe_surpass_1_million/00:54
LjLlastshell, yes01:01
lastshellI guess that is not good01:02
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: MTA Continues Service Cuts As Omicron Fuels Worker Shortage → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsfsge/mta_continues_service_cuts_as_omicron_fuels/01:03
LjLlastshell, it's not been proven to happen yet except with those infamous mink01:04
LjLbut i don't see why it wouldn't happen01:04
LjLcats are heavily affected, and reliably infect other cats... i'm not sure why we'd expect them to *not* infect people back, but for now it's one of those "there is no evidence" sort of things01:06
LjLlastshell, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_on_animals#November_202101:07
LjLIt has been pointed out that such reverse zoonosis spillovers may cause reservoirs for mutating variants that could spill back to humans – a possible source for variants of concern other than immunocompromised people.[20]01:08
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Multiple spillovers and onward transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in free-living and captive white-tailed deer ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/8W3FIZZ9 )01:12
LjLublx, all is well that ends well https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/147669366930658509401:17
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on animals ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/DMDQR557 )01:17
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Reverse zoonosis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/29CMEE2B )01:17
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): More evidence a booster helps prevent you from catching Omicron. We knew that already from Pfizer but this study looks at risks within households, which is useful info as it provides an absolute rather than relative risk in a common [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147670735589091328601:22
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Media_829360_smxx.pdf ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/JGBDZBTQ )01:22
xxmountain gorrilas have been infected too01:23
xxand infected each other01:23
xxno idea if there's a documented spread of it back to humans though01:23
LjLxx, there was, with the minks01:26
LjLthat's why it was considered SO serious... as to... you know01:26
LjLalthough i seem to recall the people who were infected back from mink were infected weakly01:26
LjLi've added a "Wikipedia" section to Zotero by the way, i think the article on COVID in animals mentions mountain gorillas01:27
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Enhanced fusogenicity and pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 Delta P681R mutation ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/PJMD6F48 )01:27
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: The hyper-transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant exhibits significant antigenic change, vaccine escape and a switch in cell entry mechanism ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/QJDTZ584 )01:27
LjLin any case there are obviously a lot of Wikipedia article related to COVID but i often forget they can be a useful source of information, so i'll be adding the ones that seem important, hopefully it's not too much additional noise01:28
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): Really wish authors would make it clear, when they say vaccines block transmission, if they mean getting infected or transmitting onward. This has been a source of confusion regarding the role of vaccines in blocking spread for a long time. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147671141703834420601:32
xxbtw, statistically meaningless, but I got a hold of someone I know who is currently in some coastal city in china, and he says that the restrictions are really strict, and that the there's a general feeling among the local population that covid is spread by foreigners, so they avoid him01:32
xxof course no idea if that's messaging done from the central govoernment, local government, or just weird word-of-mouth by the locals01:33
LjLhow many foreigners are even in China these days?01:36
LjLbut... yeah if i lived in a country with little local spread, at least little reported spread and it felt believable, then i wouldn't be surprised if everyone avoided non-locals01:37
xxwell, omicron most definitely did not originate in china, so I get it01:37
LjLbut i think China has some pretty darned stringent rules around entry of foreigners, unless they relaxed them since i last heard about it01:37
xxin this case, most of the foreigners have to stay on the ship, but they are allowed to regularly send someone out to deal with stuff01:38
xxship travel is a weird case in itself, very different from entering by plane or car or on foot01:39
xxcompletely different regulations01:39
LjLublx, i wonder if this stuff is also elsewhere and readers are just supposed to Know About It... or if, GAH, Twitter is just bad for this stuff and yet inexplicably used for it: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476678457778049024/photo/1  am i supposed to transcribe the URLs by hand? ;(01:40
ublxtwitter is a dumpster fire01:41
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): You recall vaxxed unboosted are basically not protected against being infected by Omicron, so basically unvaxxed is ~30% likely to be infected by a household member within 7d, vaxxed unboosted is also ~30%, and boosted is ~15%. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147671362757913805101:41
ublxminor tragedy that people who you might otherwise wish to read choose to use it01:41
ublxsry01:42
ublxit's not worthless, ofc01:42
LjLhttps://twitter.com/PsychoRooks/status/1476681225674932231 ← "Intentionally anonymous" seems also intentionally thick01:43
ublxbut a platform with that reach could be worth a lot more01:43
LjLublx, i mainly just think its "format" is incredibly ill-suited to what it's being used for a lot (science discussion)01:43
ublxexactly01:44
LjLit's perfectly suited to political statements backed by random newspaper screenshots that discourage people from looking up the source because you have to manually transcribe the headline to find it01:44
xxscience *discussion* should not happen on twitter01:44
xxit's horrible to follow01:44
LjLbut when i'm supposed to be *encouraged* to check out scientific studies, but it turns out i have to print the image and then type in the URLs to do so...01:44
LjLxx, yes, the threading is also horrible, that's part of my gripes with the "format"01:44
LjLi think it's not a problem with Twitter. Twitter does exactly what it wants to be doing01:45
LjLit's like trying to use a free-format wiki that could be suited to writing an encyclopedia for structured data like a dictionary instead01:45
xxI also sometimes have this weird thing with twitter where the url just shows twitter.com, irrelevant of where I actually am on twitter01:45
LjLuh... what was the point i was making again...01:45
LjLxx, i don't have that, are you using Chrome/Chromium? i think "hiding" the port-/ part of URLs is a "feature" Google is rolling out01:46
LjLpost-/*01:46
xxI have that disabled01:47
xxI think it has something to do with when I click back, it hijacks the history somehow01:47
LjLbut, of course, twitter solves what twitter causes01:47
LjL%title https://twitter.com/converttotext01:47
BrainstormLjL: From twitter.com: OCR Bot - Recognize Text in Images (@ConvertToText) | nitter01:47
LjLxx, i do have problems with clicking Back, but i don't have that URL thing. i tend to right-click on the "timestamps" (like "2h ago") of the tweets i want to read and open them in new tabs to avoid having to use Back01:48
anarchatthanks Tuvix01:48
LjLif you right-click on the tweet itself, it doesn't offer to open a new tab because the browser doesn't see it as a link even though you can click on it. it took me a while to figure out the timestamps do that01:49
xxso many antipatterns on twitter...01:49
LjLanarchat, i haven't added anything about children here recently but i do have a "Children" tag on Zotero too https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/Children/library01:49
LjLxx, i live in GDPR-land so what's an antipattern to me, just daily bread01:50
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Characteristics and Clinical Outcomes of Children and Adolescents Aged 18 Years Hospitalized with COVID-19 — Six Hospitals, United States, July–August 2021 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/4FGCII4C )01:57
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: B.C. reports a record 4,383 new cases as Omicron surges → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsgvbb/bc_reports_a_record_4383_new_cases_as_omicron/02:00
oerheks2 days ago 1.3m and yesterday 1.6m, today 1.8m cases already02:09
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covid booster jab offered to all adults in England, says government → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsh4iv/covid_booster_jab_offered_to_all_adults_in/02:10
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/KQFRGD1 https://i.imgur.com/0lVh81d.png "COVID Germany: Omicron B.1.1.529 cases per day" Omicron[t] / 18500 = 2^(t/4.5) = 1.84^(t/4) = 1.58^(t/3) with doubling time t2 ~ 4.5d, reproduction number Rt(4d) ~ 1.84 and Rt(3d) ~ 1.58 data from http://www.rki.de/covid-19-omikronbericht02:17
Brainstormde-facto: At 2021-12-30 19:49:25 UTC, LjL told you: this new study https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_829360_smxx.pdf talks about Omicron having a "different cell entry mechanism", you might understand better as i have no idea what TMPRSS2 is in the first place02:17
Brainstormde-facto: At 2021-12-29 00:41:07 UTC, LjL told you: Pay attention if you look at testing data from Covidly as some countries "have" more cases than they have tests https://covidly.com/graph?country=United%20States&state=#tests such as Thailand, Tanzania or Seychelles02:17
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Omicron B.1.1.529 cases per day - Album on Imgur02:17
de-factothanks02:17
LjLhappy new year's eve02:27
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: S. Korea tallies 114 new Omicron cases over the weekend → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rshdvh/s_korea_tallies_114_new_omicron_cases_over_the/02:28
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Chicago woman quarantined in airplane bathroom for 3 hours after testing positive for Covid-19 mid-flight → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rshmcd/chicago_woman_quarantined_in_airplane_bathroom/02:38
lastshellhappy new year's eve LjL02:40
de-factothats a quite interesting preprint LjL thanks for linking that02:43
de-factolooks like Omicron not only is highly immune evasive to antibodies raised against Wuhan-Hu-1, it also looks like it does not depend on TMPRSS2 for cell entry02:46
de-facto"These data indicate that, whilst Delta is optimised for fusion at the cell surface, Omicron preferentially achieves entry through endosomal fusion; this biological about-face may impact transmission, cellular tropism and pathogenesis. Moreover, this switch away from TMPRSS2-mediated activation offers a mechanistic explanation for reduced syncytia formation by Omicron infected cells."02:46
de-facto"...we demonstrate a shift in the SARS-CoV-2 entry pathway from cell surface fusion, triggered by TMPRSS2, to cathepsin-dependent fusion within the endosome. This fundamental biological shift may affect the pathogenesis and severity of disease and requires further evaluation in population-based studies."02:52
LjLde-facto, Marc Veldhoen also gave me a list of papers on Omicron (mostly on it being milder, because i think he's a supporter of that theory), including one that also involved TPMRSS2, https://twitter.com/BrainstormBot/status/147668326596894720202:57
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. hits record high with nearly 500,000 COVID-19 cases in a single day → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rshyso/us_hits_record_high_with_nearly_500000_covid19/02:57
LjLyou can see all the papers he linked me at https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476671194141179904 and https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1476671233345441793 but i believe i've added them all to Zotero also02:58
LjLublx, xx, this is amazing, it appears i may be shadowbanned in some respect on Twitter as well03:00
LjLthis thread https://twitter.com/PsychoRooks/status/1476681225674932231 has replies from me, but i don't see them if i'm not logged in03:00
xxconfirmed03:01
xxyou're not there03:01
xxI haven't seen you do anything that I'd be opposed to, so no idea why you'd get shadowbanned03:01
xxbut in general twitter is harsh on a lot of people in any way involved with corona03:01
xxmight just have been some "fact checker" not liking your face03:02
LjLbut go here https://twitter.com/BrainstormBot/status/1476715381171568645 and it magically appears03:02
LjL<xx> I haven't seen you do anything that I'd be opposed to, so no idea why you'd get shadowbanned03:02
LjLi'm not entirely sure that speaks in my favor... :P03:02
xxheh, maybe :D03:02
LjLi guess in that tweet i arguably say that the public health campaign haven't worked, hence sounding anti-vax or something03:03
LjLsigh03:03
LjLbut instead, i'm just trying to argue that "Intentionally anonymous" @Hapattack7 is an idiot ;(03:03
xxshadowbans are evil03:03
xxdoesn't even let you have a chance to argue against your ban03:04
LjLand this is worse than the thing on r/Coronavirus because when i paid attention, i could clearly see i was shadowbanned in some fashion there03:04
LjLbut here on Twitter... who knows who sees that post? other posts?03:04
xxglad that libera.chat doesn't support shadowbans03:04
LjLclearly some people *do* see my posts03:04
LjLbut clearly there's some degree of arbitrariness on that03:04
LjLhi03:05
de-factohttps://www.ahri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MEDRXIV-2021-268439v1-Sigal_corr.pdf "Omicron infection enhances neutralizing immunity against the Delta variant"03:05
de-factothis is very good news03:06
LjLde-facto, i believe that's now published on Nature03:06
LjLor at least, it better be, because i didn't re-add the one on ahri03:06
LjLxx, do you feel banned03:06
LjLhmm03:06
de-facto"Neutralization of Omicron increased 14-fold over this time, showing a developing antibody response to the variant. Importantly, there was an enhancement of Delta virus neutralization, which increased 4.4-fold. The increase in Delta variant neutralization in individuals03:07
de-factoinfected with Omicron may result in decreased ability of Delta to re-infect those individuals"03:07
LjLwhat?03:07
LjLi didn't see you say anything03:07
xxif you put a +b or +q on me (but don't kick me), and this channel is +z, then only ops would see messages from me03:08
LjLxx, ... i know03:09
LjLand i saw what you said before :P03:09
xxah :)03:09
xx$r:... would match all mirc users that don't change the default realname03:09
LjLmirc users you say03:10
* LjL ponders the loss03:10
LjLi just used that to arguably obfuscate it a little :P03:10
xxwell this channel isn't +C, so someone could ctcp version the whole channel to find out03:10
LjLwell, now you force me ;(03:11
TuvixLjL: One of the bot-linked reddit posts containing some legit info had a "first" comment by someone appearing to be anti-vax in children who cited some "5-year" ongoing study implying it was reason to consider vaccination bad.03:11
LjLwell done at op-puppeting03:11
xxI'm an irc person, I don't mind spreading irc knowledge03:11
TuvixOf course, that's completely missing the real point that the risk near-term is known, now, to be significantly worse in children, and there's no evidence to suggest the risks will be overtaking that in the short, mid, or long term, but he doesn't actually mention any of that. obviously.03:12
LjLxx, some of my channels aren't even +t because until people actually start messing with it, the usefulness of people being able to change the topic in good faith outweighs the risks of it being misused03:12
LjLTuvix, i might know the one you're talking about but let me check again03:12
LjLTuvix, this? https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rseb9s/covid19_vaccine_safety_in_children_aged_511_years/hqlvrq8/03:13
TuvixI was annoyed at the comment, but not enough to go engage over what I just assumed was either someone who honestly thinks that or part of the anti-vax campaign. I'm frankly not sure which one of those is worse.03:13
xxLjL: as always, people suck, and that's why we can't have nice things (or nicer things)03:13
TuvixYea, that's the one.03:13
de-factoit seems like Omicron might have shortened the generation time (serial time) from Delta being 4 days to Omicron being 3 days on average03:15
TuvixIt's the "wait 5 years to see if it's safe" trope. Meanwhile, the kids all getting infected now are over 4x (based on an analysis in children around the delta surge) times as likely to get said heart inflamation from catching COVID. But no, let's all "wait 5 years."03:15
de-facto.title https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.210114703:15
LjLTuvix, i'm afraid i've upvoted it ;( now you may not want to engage with me, but i think some of these reports from public agencies like the CDC aren't worth ten actual preprints. yes, common-sensically, it's good to vaccinate children, also considering as you said Omicron appears to cause worse hospitalization in them... *but*, it does seem to be true that myocarditis from the vaccines is more frequent than myocarditis from COVID, in younger males. if people are03:15
LjLworried about that balance being even worse in children (and i know people are worried about that), then a study that simply doesn't have the statistical power to see enough myocarditis case is worthless to reassure them that the vaccine's safe03:15
Brainstormde-facto: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance | Outbreak caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant in Norway, November to December 202103:15
LjLi think it's a bit of a dishonest way to convince them it's safe, to be honest.03:16
LjLyes, true, we don't have 5 years to wait until it's known-safe against myocarditis03:16
de-factooh correction: incubation time03:16
de-factohmm03:16
LjLbut it's also true that study is not enough to show it03:16
LjLso maybe that's what should be said03:16
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): Unforgivable. This party can rot in hell.Vaccines and especially booster shots will save hundreds of thousands from hospitalization or death. twitter.com/judiciarygop/s… → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/147673686348644762203:17
LjLanti-vax people are perfectly good anyway (as you see) at pointing out "what's missing"03:17
LjLso may as well straight-up say "what's missing"03:17
TuvixIt overplays the risk of vaccination without saying that the risk of infection, not just immediate but long-term effects, are also "unkonwn" and we're still "studying" that too.03:17
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00264-7/fulltext <-- delta03:17
LjLtrue03:17
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: The Lancet | The best science for better lives03:17
xxfeelings about this one? https://i.imgflip.com/5zkcc7.jpg03:18
LjLbut it's r/COVID19, it's not r/worldnews or somewhere people are going to have Daily Mail level debate03:18
TuvixWe also don't know what that risk is. It could be worse. Or not as bad. But it's speculation that doesn't have a similar preprint warning because it's rather assumed we don't know what the impact of COVID more than 2 years after getting it since no one has had it that long.03:18
LjL(if they don't want to get banned, anyway)03:18
LjLso presumably other posters know the drill too03:18
lastshelllmao xx03:18
lastshellafik the dosis for kids is less than for adults03:18
LjLxx, didn't know you wore glasses03:19
xxof course, protects my eyes from having a larger viral load blown into them03:19
xxand reminds me to not touch my eyes03:19
Tuvixlastshell: That's actually part of the delay in getting the 2-5's approved with Pfizer is because they used a smaller dosing and now need to run more studies to see if a 2nd dose brings up the immune response to the desired levels.03:19
de-facto.title https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/147414359847608320103:20
Brainstormde-facto: From twitter.com: Trevor Bedford (@trvrb): "The Norway Christmas party case study by Brandal et al (https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.2101147) shows a clear 3-day incubation [...]03:20
lastshellalso to reduce / avoid the myocarditis I guess03:20
LjLTuvix, the thing from my point of view is this: when parents fret about vaccinating their kids, currently, their main concern is likely to be myocarditis, because they've all heard about that. if the CDC publishes something that's aimed to make doctors tell them "don't worry, the CDC has found it's safe", it's implicitly going to make the claim it's been found safe *in that respect*. but it hasn't.03:20
LjLthis is different than a random preprint by a random institution or people. it's the CDC03:20
oerheks3-day incubation /// oink03:20
LjLand also i guess you can consider me a bit biased due to the disappointment of learning that Moderna has 10x the myocarditis risk as the other vaccines, and yet no country talked about it or acted on it except Scandinavia03:21
LjL(and my country didn't even *report* that Scandinavia did that)03:21
LjLso i'm getting a bit callous, yes being against vaccines is bad, but please dear "They", don't fool around with me, because i get pissed off pretty easily03:21
TuvixAh, yea, now that's worth talking about. I just get annoyed when the focus is on "look at the risk of <X>" without considering the _relative_ risk.03:21
LjLTuvix, yes, agreed on that03:22
TuvixYou could say that "crossing a paved road blindfolded is a huge risk" but if it's part of a game being played on private land known in advance not to have vehicles there, this may actually be quite safe.03:22
TuvixBit of a silly example, but the risk of doing that thing is far more safe, relative to what people likely assume it means.03:22
xxwe need more data, and we get more data by doing more vaccinations03:23
TuvixYes, but messaging is important too. If people are concerned about myocarditis, and they should be, making sure they have equal information to compare vaccination options (Pfizer/Moderna, etc) plus the risk of NOT vaccinating, are all important.03:23
LjLxx, the data you can obtain by just vaccinating people outside of a controlled trial isn't that great03:24
TuvixIIRC only Pfizer is approved in the US for the under-18's, so perhaps that's part of the analysis going on behind the scenes we just don't hear about.03:24
LjLTuvix, yes, maybe. but we don't hear about it. i'd like more transparency and i think i've been consistent in believing that more transparency would not give more weapons to the anti-X, but take away some03:24
TuvixOr, rather, not enough information is availbale on anything besides Pfizer to convince the regulators it's OK. That Scandanavian study you mentioned, was that on >18 year old only?03:25
xxLjL: not great, but vaccinating an extra billion people provided a higher chance (just due to randomness) of discovering something that would otherwise take a couple years03:25
LjLTuvix, it wasn't a study. in fact i don't know if they eventually published the data they based their decision on (i remember Sweden saying they would, but then admittedly i may have been lazy and not looked for it later). they just stopped using Moderna for all people under 30, first Sweden, then all of Scandinavia followed suit.03:26
LjLand that was well before the UK study that showed 10x for Moderna03:26
LjL(which is this one https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1 )03:26
TuvixGotcha. And yea, while that's still 10x of a fairly small number, that's significant to the point of being an order of magnitude different.03:26
LjL1 out of 10000 starts being non-negligible imo03:27
TuvixIt's enough to make someone possibly consider one vaccine over another at that point.03:27
LjLyeah03:27
LjLbut Scandinavia just found out, said it publicly, and stopped using it03:27
LjLthe rest of Europe (or at least Italy) was like "well, we better not even report that they did that in the news here..."03:27
LjLthen, after a good while, that UK study came out.03:28
LjLand i'm not sure anybody is talking about it, anyway, outside of places like here03:28
TuvixRight, I think the stated risk back circa delta (sometime this summer, I forget exactly) was citing the risk in the 12-17 group comparing Pfizer to COVID infection was 2.7/100k for the vaccine, vs. 13/100k from infection.03:28
TuvixAnd even using the ~40% estimate of children who had been infected at that point. you were _still_ better off getting kids vaccinated if your main concern was myocarditis under the decent assumption that all kids would eventually be exposed, over enough time.03:28
de-factoi think its a bit exaggerated, i knew it before taking Moderna and i only did take it because i considered the risk to be tiny03:29
LjLTuvix, that sounds consistent with this study for the vaccine risk (except Moderna), but not for the COVID risk03:29
LjLbut this study is on males <4003:29
LjLso not quite the same cohort i guess03:29
LjLbut still, hm03:29
lastshelldo we know why affect males only the myocarditis or also females ?03:29
TuvixI get the strong feeling that folks using this as the excuse to avoid vaccinating children just find it a compelling reason to avoid looking into the real cost/benefit.03:29
lastshellnot sure if was this channel when they mentioned maybe the testosterone levels have something todo03:30
TuvixOdds are good even if you convince them about the numbers they'll pick the next-best-excuse to be the white whale of "no"03:30
LjLwell, i don't have children, and i don't have children around me that i'm concerned for. i just have spare time to be ticked off by some things.03:30
LjLTuvix, have 40% of children really plausibly already been infected?03:31
TuvixI'll be curious if first-doses in children tick up after the now pandemic-record-setting hospitalizations the US is seeing now.03:31
de-factothe risk of getting Myocarditis from COVID is probably way higher than from Moderna above a certain age group03:31
TuvixLjL: That was an estimate I'd heard experts throwing around about 1-2 months back, pre-omicron, mid-delta.03:31
LjLde-facto, well the stated concern was always about younger people03:31
LjLand it's entirely possible to use a vaccine for older people and another for younger ones03:31
TuvixNo idea how they estiamted that; presumably partly based on test data, but of course many mild symptoms likely went unnoticed entierly.03:32
LjLand that's exactly what Scandinavia did, so...03:32
de-factowell sure as modified dosing schemes03:32
LjLde-facto, in Scandinavia they just stopped using it for people younger than 30, period, they didn't modify the dose03:32
LjLalso03:32
TuvixSchools largely opened back up here, and some of them didn't even have any mask or distancing guidelines in some of the more, shall we say, relaxed states.03:32
LjLthis UK study is about the *second dose*03:32
de-factodont they do that 1/3 BNT for adolescents and 1/10 BNT for the very young?03:32
LjLplease ponder this03:33
LjLfirst dose: 12 events03:33
LjLsecond dose: 101 events03:33
LjLthird dose: don't know, not enough Moderna done yet03:33
LjLwould you want a third dose of Moderna while being a younger male?03:33
de-factoGermany uses mostly Moderna for boosting afaik03:33
LjLScandinavia said "nope"03:33
LjL(COVID: 7 events)03:34
de-factothe 50µg dose03:34
Tuvixbreakthrough COVID, or unvaccinated COVID? This is where rates of incidence really matter more.03:34
Tuvixcase numbers without a controlled study group don't really mean a whole lot.03:35
LjLTuvix, it's all COVID03:35
LjLCashlin, but you can still compare it to the number of events with Pfizer/BNT03:35
de-factoand same number of covid cases than vaccinated? attack rate for vaccination usually is a LOT higher (orders of magnitude) for a cohort of similar size than COVID03:35
LjLerr, Tuvix03:35
LjLnot sure how Cashlin ended up there, sorry03:35
LjLTuvix, the number of events of BNT/Pfizer with the second dose is 12, against 101 with Moderna. i think keeping quiet on *that* is inexcusable, sorry.03:36
LjLespecially considering it means it could be worse with the third, given the trend, and we don't know03:36
TuvixAgain, incidence rate matters. 12 events in 100k would actually be worse than 101 events in 1M03:37
LjLTuvix, also this *is* rate of incidence, i'm talking about events per million03:37
LjLcan you read the abstract please? :P03:37
TuvixBut I'm sure the numbers weren't that far off given the 10x incidence rate you emntioned earlier.03:37
LjLMyocarditis risk was increased during 1-28 days following a third dose of BNT162b2 (IRR 2.02, 95%CI 1.40, 2.91). Associations were strongest in males younger than 40 years for all vaccine types with an additional 3 (95%CI 1, 5) and 12 (95% CI 1,17) events per million estimated in the 1-28 days following a first dose of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively; 14 (95%CI 8, 17), 12 (95%CI 1, 7) and 101 (95%CI 95, 104) additional events following a second dose of03:37
LjLChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively; and 13 (95%CI 7, 15) additional events following a third dose of BNT162b2, compared with 7 (95%CI 2, 11) additional events following COVID-19 infection.03:37
xxpffft you expect us to read? I can barely count using my fingers.03:37
LjLmost of the other numbers overlap in confidence interval03:39
LjL101 is squarely outside03:39
TuvixAh, up to 17 ppm even, but the p<.05 of 95-104 is pretty stark indeed.03:39
TuvixYea.03:39
TuvixI was just eyeing that too, since there's always some uncertainty in data (and it changes the more we get as ongoing studies are updating that, plus varients making a mess of things)03:40
TuvixBut that's still at or appraoching an order of magnitude difference.03:40
xxthis is weirdly specific https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=OMICRON03:41
LjLxx, why would you even search that on OSM :P03:41
xxbecause someone tried the happy-new-year bot03:42
xx!hny omicron03:42
xxand it gave that address03:42
LjLi see O.o03:42
xx#libera-newyears03:42
TuvixRegardless, I still think the lack of corresponding messaging around: we don't know if the also very real, but also rare, heart inflamation from COVID in either short-term or long-term from infection is going to be a problem. That's my main issue with the comment.03:43
LjLTuvix, and this is when Scandinavia first suspended Moderna for under-30: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2477  11 October 2021, and it was later changed from a temporary into an indefinite-time suspension. i was hoping to find the data they did it based on...03:43
LjLokay, you're right, forget the comment03:43
LjLi upvoted it because this other stuff was rubbing me off, i guess03:44
LjLit probably deserves at least a contrary and equal downvote03:44
Tuvix"the suspension of the Moderna vaccine followed the detection of signals of an increased risk of side effects" — yea, "signals" is very weak, though I'm sure there was actual data that was driving that.03:44
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Final count just short of 600K, almost double any previous day through the pandemicAlso over 5,500 new hospitalizations since yesterday that gets total up to ~90,000newsnodes.com/us pic.twitter.com/z9qt1u3Yzz → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/147674541409104691303:46
TuvixBetter analogy: pointing out the dangers of air travel, but not also mentioning that the other most common mode of travel, by car, has a higher risk of death.03:46
LjL"An unpublished Nordic study found men under the age of 30 in Finland, Sweden, Norway and03:46
LjLDenmark, who had received Moderna Spikevax©, had a slightly higher risk than others of03:46
LjLdeveloping myocarditis. Based on this data, as of October 7, 2021, Finland, Sweden and03:46
LjLDenmark have paused the use of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine for younger males.36"03:46
LjLunpublished at that time at least, this is from https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/vaccines/2021/11/myocarditis-pericarditis-mrna-vaccines.pdf?sc_lang=en03:46
LjLbut i think i've found at least *some* of the data here: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n309003:47
LjL"Of 3.5 million people who received BNT162b2, 48 developed myocarditis or myopericarditis within 28 days (54% male, 56% second dose), giving an incidence of 1.4 per 100 000 vaccinated individuals.  [...]   Results for Moderna’s vaccine mRNA-1273 are more consistent with previous studies: of 500 000 people vaccinated, 21 developed myocarditis or myopericarditis (76% male, 86% second dose), giving an overall incidence of 4.2 per 100 000."03:47
LjLso the overall incidence is higher for Moderna, *overall* not by as much as 10x, but it's mostly in males and at the second dose03:47
TuvixI do agree very strongly with you though that if this was also relevant here in the US for only Pfizer being approved for the under-18's, having that explained, ideally on the CDC page if people go looking for info on side effects, would be clearly explained.03:48
LjLwhich is consistent with the UK study03:48
TuvixIf anything that may help tip the balance with some people on the edge of choosing to vaccinate who just needed some reassurance that there *is* a scientific process and their concerns are being addressed.03:48
LjLyes!03:48
TuvixIt won't do anything for the refusing, but you basically need to read either real studies or listen to "certain" news outlets to hear that information today.03:49
LjLi would feel more reassured, *even if* i had gotten Moderna03:49
LjLi would be like, "well, my odds of getting myocarditis are still just 1 in 10000, and it's great they have found this out and are openly telling us about it, so i guess maybe next booster we'll know what to do"03:49
TuvixRight, and if you're not in an overly impacted age group, or are but don't have that as a major concern, it might not change anything.03:50
LjLinstead, with keeping the information hush-hush, i'd be more likely to be "they're hiding things from me. wow. let's ask the Daily Mail and my random anti-vax neighbor what they think about that"03:50
TuvixSure, easy to get pushed into a nasty spiral of confirmation bias as you get fed more and more wild incorrect information, but only tiny bits at a time so you don't realize how crazy it is.03:52
TuvixI try to at least hear out the experts I think are full of it in interviews. I may still think they're morons, but I at least want to hear waht they have to say before I double-down on that :D03:52
TuvixOne a few weeks ago was pushing the "lets get more people infected" crap, pre-omicron. I wonder if he still thinks that way now that hospitals are getting just slammed.03:53
LjLmeh03:53
TuvixThe other expert was not amused at his suggestion, about as much as me going into a Veterans of Foreign Wars (they have bar-rooms across the US) and talking about how WW2 wasn't really so bad.03:54
LjLthe US case count is going bonkers https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1476745414091046913/photo/103:57
oerhekshttps://twitter.com/PresidencyZA/status/147662857866203137403:57
LjLafter setting the world record yesterday they're already at +110k that amount (600k)03:58
xxLjL: I almost think it has to be some correction for lack of releasing results over the past few days03:58
TuvixYea, although if that's sourced from CDC data, there's a footnote that as of Oct this year they stopped artificially smoothing days over non-reporting days from states.03:58
TuvixSo it _could_ be part of that spike is actually reporting delays over the holidays, but we'll knwo for sure probably by the 3rd or 4th of Jan if the 7-day averaging mellows out or follows that spike.03:58
LjL-Gatherings are restricted to no more than 1 000 people indoors and no more than 2 000 people outdoors.03:58
LjLlol ;(03:58
xxha03:58
xx1k people in a room03:59
de-factohmm dont they celebrate Christmas in SA? i guess if so they also would have to expect a drop in both testing hence cases03:59
LjL(re: oerheks's tweet from South Africa)03:59
TuvixOh yea, there's similar guidance in the more rural county north of me. It's not as bad as 1k, but let me see what it is.03:59
Tuvix"Public Health Gathering Recommendations. Indoor gathering: less than 30. Outdoor gathering: less than 100 for outdoor with physical distancing measures."04:00
TuvixNothing about masks, at least not easily visible.04:00
de-factoi think in Germany we only can have 10 fully vaccinated gathering indoors and no fireworks on new years04:00
Tuvix"As a best practice, it is important to work with the asme person(s) throughout the planning, execution and follow-up of the event." Uh-huh.04:01
de-factoprobably even more strict very soon if Omicron keeps doubling each 3.5-4.5 days04:01
Tuvixde-facto: Oh, this is county guidance since the state has effectively nothing. And it's all "suggestions" and seems to make zero reference to vaccination or masking status. It is the more conservative county compared to here, but even here we have only "community expectations" that are loosly adhered to in practice.04:01
TuvixIn fact, the word "mask" doesn't appear once on the "Events and Public Gatherings" landing page. Geez.04:02
de-factobecause Germany has one of the biggest non-vaccinated naive risk groups over 60 year olds in Europe04:02
de-factothose 3M people may be at high risk for Omicron too, and hospitals are already full of Delta cases, hence no fireworks04:03
TuvixOver 60's? What drives such a low rate compared to other countries in the region?04:03
TuvixHere our over-65's (the closest similar reporting age group) tends to be one of the highest groups, although that still varies a lot here by state depending on vaccine acceptance.04:03
TuvixI worry about what gatherings are going to do to hospitals. I expect cases to spike as people get tested for works, school, or because they feel crappy after their new year celebrations.04:04
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Texas Team Applauded for Giving What Big Pharma Refuses: A Patent-Free Vaccine to the World → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsjgci/texas_team_applauded_for_giving_what_big_pharma/04:05
de-facto.title https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.2101147 <-- this could very well also happen with new years party gatherings04:06
Brainstormde-facto: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance | Outbreak caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant in Norway, November to December 202104:06
de-factoimho any party should be prohibited completely04:06
Tuvixoof, 145m^204:07
TuvixSo, 12x12m04:07
TuvixThat kind of thing is happening all over the place here. I could wander into any bar around here, without a mask or vaccination, and sit at the bar for hours without an issue.04:08
de-factothats why Omicron will spike in the new year like crazy04:09
de-factolets see04:09
* de-facto will not meet anyone for New Years celebrations04:10
xxall those blown off fingers won't be reattached on new years with hospitals swamped04:11
oerheksdrunks get sober first04:12
TuvixInteresting study; the attendance at the recirculating HVAC at the sports club I haven't been to in over 4 months is probably a similar size, though we don't have n=117 attendees daily. A "good" day might be between 20-30, and some don't stay the whole time.04:12
TuvixI'm sure they're sharing lots of Omicron, though they're closed the next 2 weekends due to cold and low-staffing (just low interest, AFAIK they still don't get anyone tested, ever)04:13
de-factothose were double vaccinated and Omicron got 3 out of 404:14
TuvixAlso from that Norway study, "The total attack rate for the Omicron variant was 74% (81/110)"04:14
TuvixYea04:14
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Here come the antivirals → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsjmp4/here_come_the_antivirals/04:14
de-factoyep04:14
TuvixSome of the staff aren't even vaccinated at all, or at least they were as of 4 months ago and some where very against it.04:14
Tuvix(at this local sporting club)04:14
TuvixSo the 75% is probably a low-estimate for that kind of time/setting exposure.04:15
de-factoOmicron will use super spread opportunities even more efficiently than any previous variant04:15
TuvixAbout half, sometimes more on any given weekend also travels 150 km, sometimes a bit more, to get there.04:16
de-factoso tolerating party with drunken people is just the worst idea for new years ever04:16
TuvixThen they go back home to their family, friends, and perhaps co-workers and they can infect (or get infected by) a whole new circle of people.04:16
TuvixIndeed, I'm sharing a glass or 3 with my cats. They don't drink the alcohol, but my youngest loves the champaign corks ;)04:17
de-factoon Christmas with family people may be more careful, isolate in advance etc, but not when going for party04:17
LjLthis is ridiculous, i still can't figure out after trying some random online free OCR things how to extract the URL's from Topol's table :|04:19
de-factowhat table?04:20
LjLde-facto, https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/147667845777804902404:21
LjLit may all be studies i already have04:21
LjLbut i can't know if i can't load them ;(04:21
LjLi tried searching for some of the keywords used in it in case he had it in some *text* form on the web, but had no luck04:21
LjLi know i have the Hong Kong one, *some* Syrian hamster study (but that's 3 of them...)04:22
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Australia: National cabinet changes isolation rule for COVID cases — a day after announcing the previous rule → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsjt44/australia_national_cabinet_changes_isolation_rule/04:23
xxLjL: did you try DMing him?04:27
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2 vaccination and myocarditis or myopericarditis: population based cohort study ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/F5Z3BTDK )04:27
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Myocarditis after vaccination against covid-19 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/IUPXXBC4 )04:27
LjLxx, he's never even replied to any of my reply tweets. he's got way better things to do :P04:28
xxtell him you have ops in a covid channel on irc :p04:28
LjLlol04:28
xxyou might wanna try the same argument to get into some VIP conference too :)04:29
xxyou're effectively PRESS04:29
xxprint and laminate some card and have it on a lanyard04:30
LjLTuvix, somehow, in England, they found much lower rates of myocarditis after vaccines, but interestingly still 6 per million with Moderna vs 1 per million with Pfizer/BNT04:32
LjLhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-004:32
TuvixYea, and the first bmj article you linked also noted that the Dutch (who were originally incorrectly quoted as having limited Moderna when they haddn't) had also not found increased rates in the data they were using, prseumably internal data collection.04:33
LjLwhich unlike the later UK study (done by Scotland, but on 40 million people...) is claimed to be much less than the amount caused by COVID (40 per million)04:33
TuvixI think the upshot is that it's still a fairly small risk, but given the type and number of people in any given study or data analysis it's possible to miss.04:33
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Ontario pushes back start of school by 2 days to give schools time to prepare → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsk1ku/ontario_pushes_back_start_of_school_by_2_days_to/04:33
LjLTuvix, still, the indication that Moderna rates are much higher than the other vaccines seem consistent04:33
de-factoLjL, https://bpa.st/IPFQ04:33
TuvixRight.04:33
LjLde-facto, don't tell me you've copied them manually ;(04:34
TuvixMy point is mostly that some of the studies from places who did look but didn't find enough to act may have been less sensitive or didn't include enough people.04:34
LjLTuvix, the first bmj article also mentioned that definitions for myocarditis may vary, although the danish study used a relatively strict one04:34
de-factono i did some OCR on the images, you may need to de-duplicate04:34
LjL(i've "linked" that article to the Danish paper in Zotero, by the way, that's a neat feature when you want to remember what article brought you to some other one)04:35
LjLde-facto, thanks04:35
de-factotwitter sucks, leading people to put text into images because of their limits04:36
de-factohorrible platform04:36
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/MQG6ZTNC )04:37
LjLyeah we were discussing what a poor choice it is for this stuff earlier :(04:38
LjLTuvix, looks like more countries had at least temporarily suspended Moderna in younger people on similar grounds but i had either forgotten or never knew04:39
LjL%title https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/french-health-authority-advises-against-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-under-30s-2021-11-09/04:39
BrainstormLjL: From www.reuters.com: French health authority advises against Moderna COVID-19 vaccine for under 30s | Reuters04:39
LjL"The decision in Paris came after regulators in several other countries, including Canada, Finland and Sweden, had also taken a more defensive stance on Spikevax over heart-related safety concerns affecting younger people."04:39
* LjL is still mostly looking for Sweden's original data, if they are anywhere04:39
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covid-19: FDA puts Moderna’s paediatric application on hold to investigate side effects ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/DJHK9C8G )04:42
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer’s COVID-19 shot causes mostly mild side effects in young kids – U.S. CDC → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/pfizers-covid-19-shot-causes-mostly-mild-side-effects-in-young-kids-u-s-cdc-7699069/04:43
LjLi actually had all the studies in Eric Topol's table, except maybe for https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhCazFav1pokFKmsZI5_oqgleH9ofFckR/view which must be the wrong URL, by checking i've corrected it to https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhCazFav1pokFKmsZI5_oqleH9ofFckR/view (it had an extra g) but still not found, there must be something else wrong i'm not seeing04:54
xxoh cool, google again 403's me...04:55
simpletonI am so happy I have covid04:55
xxwhy?04:55
simpletonI get more money from government related support for people who can't work that i get from working. It's a vacation with net income increasing04:56
simpletonI am just very mild symptoms enjoying a staycation04:56
LjLif you're happy and you know it cough your lungs *cough cough*04:57
simpletonlol04:57
xxhah04:57
xxoh shit I actually got a fit of cough04:57
simpletonlol04:57
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Omicron infection enhances neutralizing immunity against the Delta variant ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/HJZMPWA7 )04:57
xxhopefully just some saliva got into the wrong hole04:58
xxI've been travelling the past few days, but hopefully was safe04:58
simpletonsince I smoke heavily and have COPD, asthma, and Emphysema... I always cough... but the COPD and Emphysema, is going away thanks to a biotech+stem cell stage one clinical trail from astrazenica... but disability pays for the $20k weekly treatments04:59
simpletonSo... Totally not worried about the potentially fatal conditions, since they are recessing towards not being there, instead of progressing towards terminal status and death05:00
LjLthere is a thing like trolling too blatantly05:00
xxdunno, I've seen that user in other channels05:01
xxstill a nonsensical argument though05:02
xxunless it's just something to do with being faced with death05:02
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mexico to get more Covid-19 vaccines from China’s CanSino next year → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rskij8/mexico_to_get_more_covid19_vaccines_from_chinas/05:02
simpletonI'm not trolling, I just wanted to say this because it's comical and beneficial unlike the expection would normally be05:02
simpletonIt's so ridiculous I had to say it05:02
LjLfair enough05:05
LjLmaybe at some point that 20000 limit on Matrix users should be lifted if the bridge wants to, like, work05:05
LjL(especially in rooms that haven't exempted the Libera requirement of all-users-being-actually-present)05:06
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): In contrast to CDC, CA public health guidance is that COVID19 cases can end isolation after 5 days with a negative test, otherwise 10. Antigen test preferred too. @michaelmina_lab will love this. twitter.com/DrTomasAragon/… pic.twitter.com/OfV1CbCFly → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147676551515873690205:11
minthos"disability pays for the $20k weekly treatments" this right here sounds ridiculous to me. first of all that a treatment costs $20k per week, but even more that you don't have to pay it yourself. If reasonably priced treatments were covered, maybe reasonable treatments would be affordable and coverage would also be affordable..05:18
minthos*if _only_ reasonable treatments were covered05:18
xandrare: that CA public health guidance: idc what anyone says, i am grateful i've spent the pandemic in california. haven't gotten covid once since this whole thing started.05:25
xandrafriends and family back in my hometown haven't been so lucky and they're taking just as many (if not more) precautions than i am. :/05:26
xandraas/than*05:26
xxminthos: in countries with free healthcare, after subtracting personnel and maintenance costs, 99% of funding is spent on 1% of patients, so that $20k/week does not surprise me05:26
xx(however keep in mind that after subtracting the personnel and maintenance costs, very little actually remains for treatment anyway)05:27
TuvixThere'll be lag as the wave of omicron makes its way across the US at different times. I'm not sure what part of CA you're in, but there's been a sharp spike in cases it looks like starting just over a week ago there: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/california-covid-cases.html05:29
xandraTuvix: for sure. i'm in SF, the spike been here lmao still grateful nonetheless.05:37
TuvixYea, NYT uses a 14-day change (more smoothing & mini-charts, but a bit different than most other 7-day changes.) Still, SF reporting a +731% 14-day case change, although so far just a +4% hospitalization change. While hospital admits lag cases, the nice 80% fully vaccinated rate in that county helps a lot I'm sure.05:39
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Analysis: Experts question new U.S. CDC policy on COVID isolation period → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsl4zo/analysis_experts_question_new_us_cdc_policy_on/05:40
xandrai was reading a story in the chronicle today about affluent, white neighborhoods now experiencing COVID spikes because they're the lowest vaccination rates in the city.05:40
TuvixI think behavior plays a big role in this too. Just having fully-vaccinated might not consider populations where people have lower boost percentages, less masking, and/or more social gatherings.05:40
TuvixAnd I'm using "social gatherings" very loosely here, since going into an office or factory might be social in the sense that you're around other people.05:41
xandrawell, i know back in tennessee, folks have been required to get back to work; whereas, here we're definitely still WFH for a vast majority of office work.05:41
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): @michaelmina_lab Test-to-release is the most cost-effective use of rapid tests. Only cases test, so there's no waste on a low-prior-probability group. By day 5 titers are dropping, so unlikely contagious if antigen-negative, diff from early in [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147677606806533734605:49
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid: UK 'incomparably better placed' this new year - PM: Boris Johnson urges revellers who go out to take a Covid test and "remember the importance of ventilation". → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-5983466705:59
oerheksventilation how? facebook, twitter .. ?06:05
TuvixI mean, that's a quote from the UK PM, so it's overly broad and generic.06:06
BrainstormNew from CDC (old): Coronavirus [CoV]: Find out if you can board a flight to the United States → https://tools.cdc.gov/api/embed/downloader/download.asp06:08
TuvixA bit interesting that, besides congragulating the "incredible" and "heroic" vaccination efforts, he doesn't mention that gathers should be vaccinated, tested, and consider caution (ie: not going at all.) But if your audience is the people who are going to go out and party no matter what, perhaps encouraging them to test and consider air supply is something. Not like opening windows and turning on an06:09
Tuvixintake fan is going to go over well in the UK this time of year…06:09
agentX%cases Germany06:42
agentX%cases Germany06:45
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Wow! We were listed by the CEO of @Illumina @fdesouza as one of the heroic actions & major medical breakthroughs in Genomics in 2021. A good read on what to expect in 2022 on the genomics of rare diseases, epidemics & cancer - linkedin.com/pulse/2021-gen… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/147678873578629940306:46
agentX!cases Germany06:47
agentX.cases Germany06:47
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 delays UN nuclear treaty meeting, possibly till August → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/covid-virus-delays-un-nuclear-treaty-meeting-possibly-till-august-7699346/07:25
sdfgsdfgdo you guys know the variant coverage in germany, how many of daily cases are omicron07:29
sdfgsdfgit seems it did replace delta in uk ._.07:31
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel approves 4th vaccine dose for most vulnerable → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsnl2x/israel_approves_4th_vaccine_dose_for_most/07:53
BrainstormNew from MedicineNet: (news): J & J's Booster Brings Robust Protection Against Omicron, Study Shows → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp08:03
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: Yearender 2021: How the pandemic paved way for experiential storytelling in fashion → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/fashion/even-when-it-comes-to-fashion-stories-sell-7685455/08:12
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Chinese cities on Covid alert as New Year holiday looms → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/chinese-cities-on-covid-alert-as-new-year-holiday-looms-7699419/08:31
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Global Covid-19 Omicron updates: South Africa says fourth wave peaked; US breaks single-day case record → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/coronavirus-omicron-delta-global-updates-december-31-2021-7699471/08:50
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 deaths in Eastern Europe surpass 1 million → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsop5e/covid19_deaths_in_eastern_europe_surpass_1_million/09:09
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 31, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsovdi/daily_discussion_thread_december_31_2021/09:19
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Why Trump’s recent comments on Covid-19 vaccine stoked criticism from supporters → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/donald-trump-covid-19-vaccine-comments-supporters-criticism-7699418/09:38
somekoollol Brainstorm ;)09:44
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): On this, the 31st of December, remember to wish all your loved ones a very happy...Delayed Release of Important Weekly Covid Hospital Data Day™️  → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/147683921177288294409:57
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Scots urged to stay at home for Hogmanay amid Omicron surge → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsq0q1/scots_urged_to_stay_at_home_for_hogmanay_amid/10:35
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Korea to extend curbs amid Omicron surge, serious COVID-19 cases → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsqh7p/south_korea_to_extend_curbs_amid_omicron_surge/11:03
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Scots urged to stay at home for Hogmanay amid Omicron surge → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsqjlu/scots_urged_to_stay_at_home_for_hogmanay_amid/11:13
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): As expected, the high prevalence of Omicron has led to a significant number of NHS staff absences in England. However - more positive signs are emerging in London, which first bore the brunt of this latest wave. twitter.com/mroliverbarnes… → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/147686605552399975011:51
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Air New Zealand suspends in-flight food and drinks → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsrcg3/air_new_zealand_suspends_inflight_food_and_drinks/12:10
BrainstormNew from Politico: Coronavirus: Ireland cuts COVID-19 quarantine as 92 percent of cases now Omicron → https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-cuts-covid-19-quarantine-as-92-percent-of-cases-now-omicron/12:19
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. CDC warns against cruises, regardless of vaccination status → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsrpza/us_cdc_warns_against_cruises_regardless_of/12:28
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron crashes global New Year party but South Africa offers hope → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rss146/omicron_crashes_global_new_year_party_but_south/12:47
DreddYay, the de-facto @de-facto:libera.chat has returned12:55
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Integrating artificial intelligence in bedside care for covid-19 and future pandemics: The covid-19 pandemic created unprecedented challenges for both clinicians and healthcare institutions. Adapting to a rapidly emerging disease while facing staff and material shortages prompted... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068197.short12:57
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Oral COVID-19 antiviral, Paxlovid, approved by UK regulator → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rss8av/oral_covid19_antiviral_paxlovid_approved_by_uk/13:06
finely[m]In Australia, you now aren't a close contact unless you spend more than 4 hours with   a positive person in a "household-like" setting. The government is pursuing a strategy of everyone getting Omicron and hoping the hospital system doesn't fold. Without explicitly saying it. If Omicron is significantly less severe and long COVID can eventually be cured, this might make sense. (Vaccination + omicron infection leading to robust, long lasting13:10
finely[m]multivariant immunity in most of the population). But that is a lot of dubious assumptions. They are just rolling the dice without even pretending to consult with the people they will kill and maim.13:10
finely[m]PCR Testing capacity is maxed out already and there are no rapid tests available. No additional health care capacity was built in the two years they had to do it. NSW is saying it will stop smartphone contact tracing again. Some medical staff are being forced to work despite being close contacts. 2022 is going to be a shitshow.13:10
finely[m]https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-30/relaxed-covid-19-restrictions-will-result-in-more-cases-cmo-says/10073216413:10
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Belgian scientific base in Antarctica engulfed by Covid-19 despite strict measures → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsse5b/belgian_scientific_base_in_antarctica_engulfed_by/13:16
sdfgsdfgfinely[m] it's just the ScoMo got caught in a most unconvenient chain of events, omicron was a plot twist13:16
finely[m]Nobody could have seen this coming. /s13:18
sdfgsdfgbut still.. they're acting super weird13:18
sdfgsdfgI also think youre right13:19
sdfgsdfgespecially in victoria, wtf13:19
finely[m]Might just be changing the rules so business don't get closed down. We'll never know as national cabinet meetings are FOI excempt. What's going on on Vic?13:20
sdfgsdfgI got ambushed by cops one night, we were partying during august lockdown, 6 of them rushed in without an excuse and slapped a $5000 fine and a f****ing conviction for every single person in my place13:21
finely[m]Lucky the government used the time bought by everyone's sacrifice during lockdown to prepare so well.13:22
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): In summary, the early detection of #omicron, high-level science, low number of infections and hospitalization when variant emerged and trust between government and scientists is allowing South Africa to lead the world on COVID science and response. → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/147689077303566745613:35
Dredd<sdfgsdfg> "I got ambushed by cops one night..." <- Are you complaining you got caught out ignoring the rules?13:38
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Unvaccinated are 'rolling the dice' with omicron, Arizona health expert says - KTAR.com → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rssttd/unvaccinated_are_rolling_the_dice_with_omicron/13:44
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Arkansas judge strikes down law banning mask mandates → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rssz0f/arkansas_judge_strikes_down_law_banning_mask/13:54
sdfgsdfgof course I am, you wouldn't see this happening in U.S13:56
sdfgsdfgpeople would shoot each other instead lol13:56
DreddEh? You choose to party during a pandemic rather than following the rules out in place to manage it and knowing the consequences13:57
sdfgsdfgwe do need more guns in australia13:57
sdfgsdfgwait, what13:59
sdfgsdfgit's already 202213:59
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: US woman tests positive for Covid-19 mid-flight, isolates for 5 hours in bathroom → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-woman-tests-positive-covid-19-mid-flight-isolates-bathroom-7700079/14:03
DreddHappy new year14:11
* Dredd uploaded an image: (379KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/RuLovizNgrlFzxttKdXvKUee/tenor_gif282337129425644262.gif >14:11
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Are COVID hospitalizations high where you live? Look up your hospital : Shots → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rst9dt/are_covid_hospitalizations_high_where_you_live/14:13
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Adverse events of active and placebo groups in SARS-CoV-2 vaccine randomized trials: A systematic review → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rstih0/adverse_events_of_active_and_placebo_groups_in/14:22
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Taiwan reports 41 imported COVID-19 cases, sets new high → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rstl3g/taiwan_reports_41_imported_covid19_cases_sets_new/14:32
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): While data is skewed by reduced holiday reporting, there’s increasing signs #Omicron wave in London may be peaking. The huge wave has occurred, so far, with only a small rise in hospital admissions requiring mechanical ventilation. New York [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/147691218677372108814:51
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/JEva2YV https://i.imgur.com/PmAa6NP.png "COVID Germany: Age dependent Incidence" src: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-12-30.pdf?__blob=publicationFile data: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Altersverteilung.html15:05
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Age dependent Incidence - Album on Imgur15:05
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/Dy7bcbW https://i.imgur.com/rj0xwOb.png "COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoC Evolution" src: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-12-30.pdf?__blob=publicationFile data: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/VOC_VOI_Tabelle.html15:05
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoC Evolution - Album on Imgur15:05
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/8hUI92q https://i.imgur.com/WktLxNM.png "COVID Germany: Omicron B.1.1.529 SARS-CoV-2-VoC" src: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-12-30.pdf?__blob=publicationFile data: http://www.rki.de/covid-19-omikronbericht15:05
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Omicron B.1.1.529 SARS-CoV-2-VoC - Album on Imgur15:05
de-factoThis is the Incidence, Variant coverage and Omicron geographical distribution in Germany15:06
de-factoRKI does a very good job, they publish a detailed report on every Thursday of the week containing all the graphically illustrated data but also offers them for download and own analysis in xlsx files15:08
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 Vaccine Demonstrates 85 Percent Effectiveness against Hospitalization in South Africa when Omicron was Dominant → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsue9q/johnson_johnson_covid19_vaccine_demonstrates_85/15:11
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Paxlovid: UK medicines regulator approves second Covid antiviral pill → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-5983958415:20
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID-19 Vaccine Safety in Children Aged 5–11 Years — United States, November 3–December 19, 2021 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsunme/covid19_vaccine_safety_in_children_aged_511_years/15:29
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: What is Flurona? Israel records first case of flu and Covid together → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsusda/what_is_flurona_israel_records_first_case_of_flu/15:39
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Two years of coronavirus: how pandemic unfolded around the world → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsuzry/two_years_of_coronavirus_how_pandemic_unfolded/15:48
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: As provinces limit PCR testing, should Canadians be able to report rapid test results? → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsvdx2/as_provinces_limit_pcr_testing_should_canadians/16:07
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: JetBlue cuts about 1,280 flights through mid-January on Omicron hurdles → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsvlpa/jetblue_cuts_about_1280_flights_through/16:17
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Josiah 'So Mild' Grindrod (@JT_Grindrod): Aka "the vaccines weren't the silver bullet we hoped for so let's roll the dice on immunity through infection"Because God forbid we implement NPIs. twitter.com/wsbgnl/status/… → https://twitter.com/JT_Grindrod/status/147693551878914048416:27
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Jeffrey Barrett (@jcbarret): The amazing team @UKHSA released an in-between-days tech. brief. Reassuring updates (consistent w/prev. estimates) on vaccine effectiveness & severity. Most interesting to me was this note that reduction in hosp. risk of #Omicron extends to kids:  [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/147693796063753423416:36
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Determinants of severity among hospitalised COVID-19 patients: Hospital-based case-control study, India, 2020 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rswgpp/determinants_of_severity_among_hospitalised/16:55
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: ‘War footing’: UK builds temporary hospitals to prepare for Covid-19 surge → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rswmo9/war_footing_uk_builds_temporary_hospitals_to/17:05
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 1 in 15 people in London likely has COVID-19 → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rswuv7/1_in_15_people_in_london_likely_has_covid19/17:14
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): Another big day of reported COVID-19 deaths (203 - still some Christmas catch-up involved), however “by date of death” the figure is unchanged. The seven-day average (excluding the five most recent days, which are incomplete) remains [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/147694962872564122217:24
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron hospitalisation risk around one third of Delta, UK analysis shows → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsx9am/omicron_hospitalisation_risk_around_one_third_of/17:33
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Israel begins administering 4th vaccine dose → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/israel-covid-4th-vaccine-dose-7699874/17:43
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Covid Fact Check UK (@fact_covid): My view on this hasn’t changed. I’m very confident that 2022 (once we get past a tricky month or so) will be very different to the last few years, with far less disruption to our lives from COVID.Have a happy and healthy New Year, and a great [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/147695713759525684117:52
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Richard  (@RP131): 203 new #covid19uk deaths reported today (31-Dec). This brings the rolling average by date of death (allowing 4 days for lag) to 98, equivalent to around 17-Aug (i.e. 129 days ago), a reduction of 9 (8%) in the last week. pic.twitter.com/d9NXWTJYKs → https://twitter.com/RP131/status/147695758308906189918:02
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Australia-donated Pfizer vaccines arrive in Cambodia, to be dispatched to front line states with Thailand - Cambodia last evening received 783,000 out of the over 2.35 million doses of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rsxxl4/australiadonated_pfizer_vaccines_arrive_in/18:11
BrainstormNew from Novavax: Novavax Submits Final Data Packages to U.S. FDA as Prerequisite to Emergency Use Authorization Application Request for COVID-19 Vaccine: - Chemistry, manufacturing and controls (CMC) data [... want %more?] → https://ir.novavax.com/2021-12-31-Novavax-Submits-Final-Data-Packages-to-U-S-FDA-as-Prerequisite-to-Emergency-Use-Authorization-Application-Request-for-COVID-19-Vaccine18:20
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: CDC Warns Travelers Against Cruising Over Omicron Outbreaks → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rsyjxe/cdc_warns_travelers_against_cruising_over_omicron/18:30
BrainstormNew from NPR: As omicron heats up in the U.S., South Africa says its wave is on the way out: The variant caused fewer deaths and less severe infections than past versions of the virus in South Africa, but that could be different in other countries. → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/31/1069476889/omicron-south-africa18:39
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): No time for threads lately but ICYMI we've done 3 new Covid stories in the last 24 hours on the latest situation in UK and worldwide, and 11 new charts covering the Omicron surge, testing capacity and the latest hospital data.See them all (and more) [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/147697224084351795518:58
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The new @UKHSA report today strongly reinforces the benefit of the 3rd shot (booster) vs Omicron for reducing hospitalization: 88% assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl… (this is the 1st time we've seen such VE data for booster vs severe disease) [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/147697622066744934419:08
lastshellwhy cruise ships with full vaccinated people get covid ?19:10
dTaldo they?19:10
lastshellhttps://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/30/1069253312/cdc-cruise-ship-travel-covid-1919:11
lastshell"Even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants,19:11
lastshellthis is insane19:11
lastshellhttps://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html19:14
lastshellmost yellow19:15
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): And in the report quantified: A 60-70% reduction in hospitalization for Omicron vs Delta (even with that marked reduction, the enormous case toll for Omicron translates to a lot of severe disease) pic.twitter.com/0RJSFlcL8m → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/147697984353108377819:17
LjLlastshell, why is it insane? we already know that vaccinated people do get covid with the new variants (Omicron and Delta, not so "new")19:20
LjLi find it insane that people still go on cruises19:20
BrainstormNew from Il Sole 24 Ore: Omicron, studio Uk: rischio ricovero è un terzo rispetto alla variante Delta: Studio dell’Agenzia sanitaria britannica condotto su un milione di pazienti: costante la domanda di ventilazione meccanica. Vaccini efficaci → https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/omicron-studio-uk-rischio-ricovero-e-terzo-rispetto-variante-delta-AEbXhh519:27
LjLthat's reporting on a UK report, is there a new one out (saying Omicron has 1/3 the hospitalization demand as Delta, but the need for ventilation remains constant) or do you reckon it's the one from a couple days ago19:33
xxI reckon numbers are still weird due to it being the holiday period19:36
LjLwell this is a report made over some reasonable time range presumably19:36
TuvixGoing by the above tweet that estimates 1 in 15 in UK are infected and blindly assuming further you wouldn't want to be in a room with them, the math shows that with 10 people of random distribution in a room, you now have 50% odds that at least 1 of them is infected.19:39
lastshellI just thing is insane that the vaccine is not more efficient19:40
lastshellI maybe wrong19:40
TuvixBy 20 people the odds go up to 75% in favor of at least 1 being infected.19:40
ublxand in a supermarket with 200 people milling around?19:40
lastshellbtw LJL how is family going on ?19:40
TuvixWell, there's better airflow there, but yea, congregate settings are worse, but the larger space is better. I'd still wear a good quality mask for the grocery store or similar since you don't really know who you'll be stuck waiting in the queue next to.19:41
LjLlastshell, the vaccine was more efficient... on the original variant.19:41
LjLlastshell, my cousin is feeling okay now (but she's still positive). not sure about my uncle19:41
LjLrest of family have stayed negative19:41
LjLi've not been feeling well today but it's nothing to do with COVID, i have tinnitus and i had some strange kind of hopefully-transitory hearing loss :(19:42
LjLit seems to have mostly come back now19:42
lastshellmaybe you need some rest ?19:42
LjLtried to call a medical helpline but i couldn't get a line19:42
lastshellor some workout ?19:42
LjLi'll workout while i sleep :P19:42
lastshellnot sure how that works but that is funny19:43
LjLwell, in case i need rest *and* working out!19:43
LjLanyway it may certainly have to do with anxiety and stuff, including from COVID19:43
lastshelldon't fear the covid, covid needs to fear you19:43
lastshellmindset is everything19:44
lastshellif you can take cold showers,they way I do I start with warm wather then cold half and half time19:44
lastshellthose wonders to your bodu19:45
lastshell*body19:45
* LjL shivers19:46
lastshellalso if is to dark where you are take cold liver oil19:46
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: France reports a record 232,200 new coronavirus cases → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt04c7/france_reports_a_record_232200_new_coronavirus/19:46
LjLi take vitamin D19:46
lastshellgood19:46
TuvixAfter I had to take tapwater-cold showers for a bit over 2 weeks while my first plumber I'd called ghosted me, I'm not a fan of overly cold water. That was in late fall where the seasons are not really friendly to that…19:47
LjLmaybe i should take more, because i never really see the sun19:47
LjLTuvix, only remotely close experience was once in a camping where they only had "warm" water from sun-heated containers, but only people who'd wake up... earlier than me... got to enjoy it. but still, it was summer, so the water probably wasn't quite as chilly as it is now. still rather unpleasant19:48
* LjL is no scout19:48
TuvixYea, I stayed in a hotel (I think in Italy actually, years back during a school trip) where the hotel had almost excusively solar-heated pipes. You had to wake up at the right time, and not be late enough where the early birds emptied most of the sun-basked water.19:49
LjLa hotel! without hot water19:51
LjLitaly is... interesting19:51
LjLwe could be like twice as touristy as we are, but we just don't act very welcoming to tourists19:51
LjLsee also: Spain getting much more tourism than we get19:52
LjLpeople go to Italy anyway because it has interesting things, but they don't often come back with a great *experience* of places like Rome (traffic craze central) or... well i'll shut up about the stereotypes on various places :P19:53
TuvixI wasn't an early riser, but still got lukewarm water, so it was fine. Still much better than tap-cold in late-October at around 43˚ lattitude.19:53
LjLi'm at 45°C and it's currently 5°C so i hope my water heater continues working :P19:54
LjLalthough... come tomorrow, electricy and gas prices will be +50% ;(19:54
LjLerr, not 45°C, just 45°19:54
TuvixI had fun in Italy; I got to swim in my first ocean there, and Rome wasn an experience. We got to see the Pope, where it dumped rain partway into his speach and shorted out the PA system.19:54
Tuvixwas an*19:55
LjLocean? are you sure you went to the right Italy? :P19:55
ublxact of god, lol19:55
LjLublx, lol19:55
LjLwhich pope was that19:55
TuvixWhichever one was in 2002, I think it was? It might have been summer 2001, I'm not sure without checking.19:55
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Florida COVID update: Single-day case increase record shattered as hospitalizations rise → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt066v/florida_covid_update_singleday_case_increase/19:55
LjLah so still John Paul II19:56
LjLat least it wasn't Ratzinger19:56
lastshelldoes people in italy are still chatolic ?19:56
LjLwell... certainly some!19:56
TuvixLate June, 2001 according to the rather odd photos my teenage self took.19:56
ublxwe know at least one italian who is chatoholic19:57
lastshellit feels like people are leaving religion19:57
LjLublx, at least on one side19:57
ublxat least the internet facing side!19:57
LjLwho is it anyway19:58
* LjL draws a blank19:58
* LjL also prays to god this tinnitus abates to baseline19:59
LjLs/god/Asclepius/19:59
lastshellmy grandfather was going to be a priest20:00
lastshellbut he found my grandmother more interesting :D20:00
lastshellI grow in a catolic setup but I still don't know how catloic I am20:01
lastshellis confuse20:01
* LjL doesn't disclose his faith or denomination just in case the pope conquers back the country20:01
lastshellDr John Cambell said the omicron will be the last of the pandemic20:01
lastshellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTftlM0MJUk20:02
LjLDr John Campbell also said that Ivermectin and Paxlovid are the same20:02
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: NC Coronavirus update December 31:North Carolina sets record for highest number of new COVID cases for 2nd-straight day → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt0cvf/nc_coronavirus_update_december_31north_carolina/20:05
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron Doesn't Infect the Lungs Very Well, Animal Studies Find → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rt0lgb/omicron_doesnt_infect_the_lungs_very_well_animal/20:14
ublx^ nice if true20:19
LjLublx, well by now a few studies have found that... in animals, and in vitro. i've added a bunch to zotero last night after that Marc Veldhoen guy linked me a few20:20
LjL(i had admittedly not added them at first because i was skeptical of the whole "it's milder" thing and admittedly that biased my choice of what i added :P)20:20
TuvixAlthough I'm not sure any specific reduction in impact is useful beyond not making the horrible surge in many places "a bit less bad than it could have been." Arguably, yes, that's good, but it's still not a good reason to be lax and let infections happen that could be avoided.20:21
ublxright. potentially happier for the individual. still potentially a whole lot of suck for healthcare providers20:22
fooOA20:22
fooDo we have any data on how omicron might affect a 4 month old? Looks liek my brother and his wife have it (despite how careful they've been/masking up/etc)20:22
Tuvixfoo: A quick look for reputable information came up with this introduction you may find useful: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-2048440520:23
lastshellhttps://www.wionews.com/world/after-delmicron-its-flurona-israel-reports-first-double-infection-of-covid-and-flu-441504/amp20:23
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: N.J. sets another daily record with 28,512 COVID cases on New Year’s Eve → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt0ug7/nj_sets_another_daily_record_with_28512_covid/20:24
TuvixLooks like for the newly born, positive close-caregivers are encouraged to wear masks, which makes some sense.20:25
fooTuvix: thanks20:25
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 31 dicembre 2021: Ulteriori misure  urgenti  in  materia  di  contenimento  e  gestionedell'emergenza  epidemiologica  da  COVID-19  nelle  Regioni   Lazio,Liguria,  Lombardia,  Marche,  Piemonte,  Sicilia,  Veneto  e   nelleProvince [... want %more?] → http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2021/12/31/21A07813/SG20:33
LjLoh20:33
LjLi think this is the thing that says Lombardy (among other places) will be switching to yellow alert monday20:34
LjLabout time20:34
LjLalthough it should really be switching to orange, the data almost warrant that20:34
LjLbut we'll have to wait another week for that, as they only take that decision on Fridays and it takes effect the next Monday :|20:34
LjLlastshell, need to take a close look at the flu, because maybe it will still not be around much this year, but... one of these years, it will be, and then it might be bad20:36
lastshellI assume covid displaced the flu last years20:37
TuvixNot so much displaced but the social changes reduced its spread. It's still quite possible to have coinfections of flu plus COVID.20:38
TuvixYou don't gain protection from the other by getting just 1 either, and same applies to vaccinations.20:38
lastshellI had a friend in mexico who got covid back in 2020 I thing and he got the influenza shot before he got covid, aparently the doctors told him that that shot some how helped20:40
lastshellbut he spend 2 or 3 weeks in the icu20:40
lastshellhe is diabetic was a bless he still alive20:40
lastshellbut again this was in the IMSS not sure how true was that statement to have the influenze shot20:42
lastshellso Tuvix having the influeza shot didn't improve the outcome ?20:43
xxmaybe omicron is only said to be milder because politicians are bored of corona, but it in fact is as severe as the original wild strain20:47
Tuvixlastshell: I don't know about infection or fi that's been studied, but the flu vaccination has effectively no protection from COVID. The seasonal flue isn't even a corronavirus, and the spike protein of COVID is significantly different, meaning T/B-cells retaining the memory useful to fight it won't be significant in coming up with antibodies. Even different strains of the seasonal mutations of flu mean20:49
Tuvixthat some years vaccines are more on than others.20:49
TuvixThis year in the global north the flu vaccines are a bit of a miss for the primary strain, but it's still better to have some protection than none. Where I am the season can last through March too, so it could yet change again.20:50
lastshellthank you Tuvix20:58
lastshellthat sounds pausible xx20:59
ublxyeah maybe if you squint your ears21:00
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD  (@michaelzlin): Now the next variant to create a wave may not have the inherently milder severity of Omicron. It could be Omicron regains some lung infection ability, or the next variant is not derived from Omicron. But as long as it's not both antigenically shifted [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/147700568372781875721:01
fooCan someone remind me, I want to fact check myself - I believe the nature of viruses is to lessen in severity over time. So we can reasonable assume, eventually, this virus will become endemic like the flu. Right?21:22
Mike[m]12foo: that's how I understand it21:23
Mike[m]12Happy new year from estern europe 🎉21:23
fooMike[m]12: thanks. :) That's what I thought. Happy new year!21:24
fooThis made me wonder, when did "the flu" enter the scene?21:25
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): Covid hospitalisations by age & vaccination status in France. The message is clear: get vaccinated & do get that booster shot! twitter.com/nicolasberrod/… → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/147701348607710412821:30
ublxfoo, Mike[m]12 : https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/08/facebook-posts/viruses-and-other-pathogens-can-evolve-become-more/21:30
fooublx: SHUT UP! I HATE YOU! STOP IT! I AM GOING TO DIG MY HEAD BACK IN THE GROUND! I LIKE MY VERSION MORE!!!!!!!21:36
fooublx: Just kidding. :) Haha. Thank you.21:36
foo(I genuinely didn't know that)21:36
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): German optimism over Omicron as Europe dampens new year revelrytheguardian.com/world/2021/dec… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/147701542006653747221:40
ublxwell. several reports now suggest omicron is indeed moving in a less harmful direction, at least in some senses. hopefully the overall picture does indeed go that way21:40
fooublx: agree.21:41
foo:)21:41
LjLTuvix, look, this was about as good as they get in terms of how "early" i can give a warning: https://www.reddit.com/r/Earthquakes/comments/rt1bzr/southern_california_earthquake_sismo_possibly/ (you can see the timestamps in UTC time below the messages, that's when the messages were sent, the warning actually got to me some 5-10 seconds before it reached Reddit, APIs be slow)21:43
LjLso 45 seconds on Reddit, maybe 35-40 seconds in my debug places21:44
Dredd<foo> "This made me wonder, when did "..." <- A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...21:48
fooDredd: it's not really a fair assessment considering tech was so different back then... but perhaps something could be learned21:48
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New York State with 72% vaccinated (US avg 62%) had over 76,500 cases today, and is telling us what can happen across the US, during the Omicron wave, with its sharp rise in hospitalizations pic.twitter.com/JPa2bpJxNI → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/147701655902541004821:50
Dreddfoo: Not from a Jedi21:52
DreddDarth Plagueis the wise was said to have such mastery of the force that he could influence the midiclorians to stop COVID itself21:53
fooDredd: buahaha. love it.21:53
DreddI know lots of friends of friends with COVID right now21:54
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Neutralization of ancestral SARS-CoV-2 and variants Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Zeta and Omicron by mRNA vaccination and infection-derived immunity through homologous and heterologous variants medrxiv.org/content/10.110… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/147702237741018726422:08
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Report 49 - Growth, population distribution and immune escape of Omicron in England → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rt3qa4/report_49_growth_population_distribution_and/22:46
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: UConn Moves First Two Weeks of Semester Online → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt3w9s/uconn_moves_first_two_weeks_of_semester_online/22:56
TuvixLjL: Yea, application latency (ie: reddit) seems to be the dominating factor. That's also not a surprise since I'm sure they don't optimize for second/sub-second latency :P23:16
TuvixAlso, I realize there are probably more 31-Dec shoppers, but boy do I wish I'd gotten up early enough to go when the store opened. It was a bit busy, and around 80% of the shoppers had no mask, and plenty seemed to make it a family outing.23:17
TuvixAt least I brought my nice mask with 98%+ filtration down to .1 µm23:19
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: FAA warns it may be forced to delay flights because of Covid → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt4e98/faa_warns_it_may_be_forced_to_delay_flights/23:24
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Is omicron really less severe than delta? What we know today → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt4mmm/is_omicron_really_less_severe_than_delta_what_we/23:34
Tuvixheh, Play-Doh™, plastic bits, and nitrile gloves. Cute photo, if nothing else on that article.23:36
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australia-donated Pfizer vaccines arrive in Cambodia, to be dispatched to front line states with Thailand - Khmer Times → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rt50i9/australiadonated_pfizer_vaccines_arrive_in/23:52

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