| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron is spreading at lightning speed. Scientists are trying to figure out why → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt54vc/omicron_is_spreading_at_lightning_speed/ | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Tuvix | Earlier varients studied our world's science fiction and decided that Tribbles had a really good way of reproducing… | 00:03 |
| LjL | ah, thought so | 00:19 |
| Tuvix | You got the short straw on that split. | 00:25 |
| LjL | with that could be a bargain in exchange of getting the long straw on some other things | 00:27 |
| LjL | the air outside is unbreathable, bleh | 00:28 |
| LjL | been foggy and smoggy for days, i think it was only *a bit* foggy and smoggy today, but definitely a lot more since they started with the fireworks | 00:28 |
| LjL | which are not even allowed in theory but it sounds like the war here, so much for not allowed | 00:28 |
| Tuvix | Anything that leaves the ground and explodes is not allowed in this state, but you can buy them every independance day celebration. You know, for use "anywhere but where you bought them." | 00:29 |
| LjL | conveniently, the city's main air quality monitoring station is down | 00:29 |
| oerheks | nice evening to go to a hospital for a missing hand or eye | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron's New Year's cocktail: Sorrow, fear, hope for 2022 | AP News → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt5m40/omicrons_new_years_cocktail_sorrow_fear_hope_for/ | 00:30 |
| LjL | oerheks, i couldn't even get the line for general non-emergency urgency number earlier | 00:30 |
| Tuvix | Sure, with all the overworked healthcare staff and the many COVID-positive patients you'll encounter. I have exactly one thing that will be flying off today, and that's the cork on the chilling bottle of champagne. Provided I don't point it at my eye or my cats, that's fairly safe. | 00:31 |
| LjL | being with cats is never safe | 00:31 |
| Tuvix | I haven't bought one in a couple months, so my younger cat should enjoy chasing down the cork. I'll find it in a few weeks either under the couch or somewhere in the basement. | 00:32 |
| Tuvix | Heh, tell me about it. My older one was a bit under the weather earlier this week, and there were so many, um, "surprises" around the home for a couple of days :\ | 00:32 |
| LjL | eep | 00:35 |
| Tuvix | Who knows, maybe I really did have a mild-enough-to-go-unnoticed case and infected my cat. He's eating & drinking again, so yay not having to race him to the animal clinic. | 00:37 |
| LjL | buy an antibody test | 00:39 |
| LjL | they're the only ones still available from the supermarket here | 00:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): A very good background thread and article on recent news that antigen tests *might* not detect #Omicron as well as #delta. Bottom line: there's no reason to believe that the tests won't work well in identifying Omicron infections. twitter.com/Alexander_Tin/… → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1477060620512120838 | 00:39 |
| Tuvix | Local clinics have drive-through PCR and next-day (well, sometimes "same day" depending on when you go) drive-through testing. | 00:40 |
| Tuvix | Either is probably more reliable than the at-home tests which seem to be a bit hit-or-miss on the negative results. | 00:40 |
| Tuvix | Or did you mean to test my cat? :P | 00:40 |
| LjL | PCR doesn't tell you whether you *had* a mild-enough-to-go-unnoticed case... | 00:42 |
| LjL | unless you're one of those people who stay positive to PCR for months ;( | 00:42 |
| Tuvix | I heard a doctor quoted today as saying that Omicron appears to be at or approaching the ability to spread similar to Measles, one of the most contagious diseases, but of course without widespread vaccination we have against that. | 00:47 |
| sdfgsdfg | I think people missed the news articles about how vaccine efficiency is waning over time. I don't understand how vaccinating the entire world is going to help at all ? It'd take a LONG time and halfway there you would already lose more than half of the immunity over time | 00:55 |
| sdfgsdfg | assuming you could somehow vaccinate all the remaining nations of this world in less than 6 months or something | 00:56 |
| sdfgsdfg | "give us a 1% chance of success and we will SELL BILLIONS OF MORE DOSES" big pharma vibe | 00:57 |
| Tuvix | My understanding is that even a 2-dose mRNA priming still confers some protection against serious outcomes including death, but it's less effective at stopping infection and spread. Cases spreading, especially in mixed populations where some aren't even single-dosed (by choice or by lack of resources) has implications, both for local healthcare and possible future varients. | 00:58 |
| sdfgsdfg | what do you mean by "some" protection | 00:59 |
| sdfgsdfg | for how long ? | 00:59 |
| Tuvix | Ultimately we don't know, but obviously if you're eligible for a booster that improves odds, and with the huge surge of Omicron almost everywhere, getting the best odds you can is clearly helpful in the short-term. | 01:00 |
| Tuvix | Let's say this virus does become both less deadly in terms of impact during peaks of spread (impact to life, hospitals, etc) but still mutates and isn't removed; we may end up offering annual vaccination much like we do the flu today. That's not the only possibile outcome, since we could keep getting dealt varients and outbreaks that _are_ serious, like the 3 major waves we've seen globally so far. | 01:02 |
| sdfgsdfg | why are we saying that | 01:02 |
| sdfgsdfg | this latest hope hype makes no sense, so many assumptions | 01:02 |
| Tuvix | We just really don't know since most of us are just barely into our booster doses, so there's a lot of "what if" going on. | 01:02 |
| sdfgsdfg | lets assume we will come up with a multivariant vaccination in 6 months and lets assume omicron and delta ends before end of 2022 | 01:03 |
| Tuvix | We could also have yet another, _more_ serious varient that's worse and partially or, worst-case, almost entierly evades vaccination. | 01:03 |
| sdfgsdfg | and lets assume a new variant wont come | 01:03 |
| sdfgsdfg | lol | 01:03 |
| Tuvix | I don't think anyone is assuming another varient won't come, in fact, there are already a good handful of greek letters allocated to various varients that haven't yet spread as Α, Β, Γ, Δ, and Ο have. | 01:04 |
| Tuvix | Well, "someone" probably is assuming that, but that's a very weak assumption… | 01:04 |
| sdfgsdfg | it doesn't matter what people assume, this is in the media lately | 01:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | if media is publishing these ideas, it's what people think and assume now | 01:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | "oh it looks like pandemic is almost over, lets get our next doses for now" | 01:05 |
| Tuvix | I'm not really the right person to ask, but "the media" (multiple sources from multiple continents) I listen to & watch has a much more balanced approach to this. | 01:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | mind if I ask which ones you're following | 01:06 |
| sdfgsdfg | I'm a news.google.com skimmer haha | 01:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | with the subscription and rupert murdoch media companies filtered out of course | 01:07 |
| Tuvix | I skim CNN for headlines, but don't really rely on it for through information; I have CBC, NPR, & BBC for some both local and international viewpoints on content, which is epsecially useful for American politics since I don't always want the "inside" view on what is going on. I've got a few other general RSS feeds, but honestly I've used those a lot less these-days | 01:07 |
| oerheks | The Spanish flu, originated in Boston, was over after the 2nd year | 01:08 |
| Tuvix | Things like the half-our BBC "Global News Podcast" is a nice way to cram a lot of world info into a short time, and great for things like car rides when I'm a captive audience in my vehicle. | 01:08 |
| Tuvix | half-hour* | 01:08 |
| Tuvix | Those aren't deep-dives, but cover a lot of content and aren't overly focused on any 1 geographic area. | 01:08 |
| oerheks | but the change involving t cells, worries me more | 01:08 |
| sdfgsdfg | oerheks ? what changes involving T-cells, is there a new discovery | 01:09 |
| oerheks | t cells seem to be fighting omricon | 01:10 |
| Tuvix | sdfgsdfg: If your time is limited, check out the twice-daily https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nq0gn/episodes/downloads podcast. No need to catch both episodes daily, and I'll skip them whenever I don't end up with time to listen. | 01:11 |
| Tuvix | I think Google Podcasts has that too, but I had so many problems with the crap Google uses (they don't use the BBC directly but some 3rd party to supply the RSS feeds which are late a LOT) but there's RSS right from the producers you can use too. | 01:12 |
| Tuvix | If Omicron is a bellwether of what COVID is going to continue to do, we may well need well over 90% of society vaccinated to avoid such huge surges. Jury is still out if that level of surge potential is really going to be an ongoing threat, but we've seen evidence of that with other diseases that spread that wildly, notably Measles. | 01:21 |
| Tuvix | eg: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31790030 | 01:21 |
| Tuvix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31790030 | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | Tuvix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Resurgence of measles in the United States: how did we get here? - PubMed | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | Tuvix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Resurgence of measles in the United States: how did we get here? - PubMed | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. Covid cases rise to pandemic high as delta (41%) and omicron (59%) circulate at same time → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt7tta/us_covid_cases_rise_to_pandemic_high_as_delta_41/ | 02:23 |
| LjL | Tuvix, your pulse oximeter must have a really tiny screen (or the thing is really huge) | 02:24 |
| Tuvix | It's 5.7 cm long, and the screen is about 2.4cm x 1.3cm | 02:26 |
| Tuvix | Give or take 10mm on the estimation since this ruler doesn't actually have real units :P | 02:27 |
| romare | happy new covid year | 02:31 |
| romare | can we please name it something else now? like dipsy. | 02:32 |
| romare | my uncle died of dipsy last year | 02:32 |
| romare | by last year I mean 2021 :D | 02:36 |
| sdfgsdfg | sorri for your loss. Add to that how covid also affected our social lives = it's a disaster | 02:37 |
| LjL | Tuvix, hm mine is actually very similar to those sizes. i was just looking at a bunch of them as a friend asked for recommendations, and yours struck me as undersized screen in the picture | 02:39 |
| LjL | maybe others are just better at faking pictures | 02:39 |
| LjL | i had a decaf espresso to celebrate new year | 02:39 |
| LjL | don't think 2022 will deserve more than that | 02:40 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, you'll love this <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Woman vaccinated 4 times tests positive for COVID-19, stopped from boarding Dubai flight from Indore → https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rt7kfx/woman_vaccinated_4_times_tests_positive_for/ | 02:43 |
| sdfgsdfg | I wonder how long it's been since her 4th dose | 02:44 |
| sdfgsdfg | you see they never include these details LOL | 02:44 |
| LjL | note two of the doses were Sinopharm though, and two were Pfizer | 02:45 |
| LjL | not a common combination over here | 02:45 |
| LjL | (but kind of required if you want to be allowed into both China and Europe for example) | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: First case of Covid and flu mixture found in Israel dubbed 'flurona' → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rt8kw9/first_case_of_covid_and_flu_mixture_found_in/ | 03:01 |
| LjL | why on earth would you have to "dub" it anything | 03:10 |
| LjL | you have flu and covid | 03:10 |
| LjL | don't think the word "and" is all that tricky | 03:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | .cases nsw | 03:15 |
| LjL | %cases new south wales | 03:15 |
| LjL | Brainstorm! | 03:15 |
| Brainstorm | LjL! | 03:15 |
| LjL | uhm | 03:15 |
| sdfgsdfg | AI rebellion | 03:16 |
| LjL | i messed up the code | 03:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United States: +933608 cases (now 55.6 million), +2495 deaths (now 846902), +345141 vaccines (now 243.5 million), +3770996 tests (now 812.7 million, 0.000000% positive) since a day ago — France: +438746 cases (now 10.1 million), +371 deaths (now 124729), +40371 vaccines (now 52.8 million) since 2 days ago [... want %more?] | 03:19 |
| sdfgsdfg | I just went through the daily conferences of nsw and vic, australia - and they are very careful not to mention how many of the cases in ICU and ventilation are vaccinated.... it would be good to know since they have 95% double dose coverage in nsw and about 22k daily cases, only about 35% of cases are omicron in vic, and probably in nsw too | 03:19 |
| LjL | %cases new south wales | 03:19 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: New South Wales, Australia has had 166373 confirmed cases (2.1% of all people) and 657 deaths (0.4% of cases; 1 in 12313 people) as of a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20South%20Wales&legacy=no | 03:19 |
| sdfgsdfg | is that the daily number in U.S ? woah | 03:20 |
| sdfgsdfg | 933608 | 03:20 |
| LjL | i'm not sure, it rounds to "a day ago" but the module wasn't actually running because i had a syntax error in it | 03:20 |
| LjL | there's actually like | 03:20 |
| LjL | %more | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] and infectious...22/n → https://paste.ee/p/vx3ch | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] United Kingdom: +380199 cases (now 13.0 million), +539 deaths (now 149096), +32607 vaccines (now 51.7 million) since a day ago — Italy: +144255 cases (now 6.1 million), +155 deaths (now 137402), +94781 vaccines (now 48.3 million) since a day ago → https://paste.ee/p/n90ky | 03:20 |
| LjL | a TON more countries listed | 03:20 |
| LjL | because they all "updated together" now the module ran again | 03:20 |
| LjL | the number for Italy is right at least ;( | 03:21 |
| somekool | 510 in Japan yesterday ! (pop: 126M) | 03:22 |
| somekool | total infections after 2 years is a little above 1% and the deaths, 1% of that. 1/10000 has died from covid after 2 years | 03:23 |
| sdfgsdfg | LOL. What an intro. "Would a fourth dose of vaccine work even better than 3 ? Experts tell us yeeeeeeesss" ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7SYHF2QbcY | 03:24 |
| LjL | literally what experts say | 03:24 |
| LjL | yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees | 03:24 |
| sdfgsdfg | this is hilarious | 03:25 |
| LjL | i don't get it though, periodically we hear and acknowledge that we'll need regular vaccinations, "like with the flu" (except it's a bit different as only a minority gets flu vaccinations) | 03:25 |
| LjL | but then we all go "gasp" at the need of yet another dose | 03:26 |
| LjL | i do have an issue with keeping using the same vaccine instead of developing and using multivalent vaccines | 03:26 |
| LjL | but the idea that we *will* need to continue getting vaccinate at least yearly is as old as the vaccine itself | 03:26 |
| LjL | if it's every three months... well that's a bit different, and i wish and hope that if we develop multivalent vaccines, those will work for a bit longer | 03:27 |
| sdfgsdfg | normalising 3-4 months cycles in an infinite loop - that does sound scary | 03:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | for me at least it is | 03:28 |
| LjL | yes for me as well | 03:29 |
| LjL | more than scary, i just don't think it's sustainable | 03:29 |
| LjL | it's out of the question, it's ridiculous | 03:29 |
| LjL | if we need to do it three or even four times... *sigh* okay but hurry the hell up with the variant-specific vaccines | 03:29 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, would data from italy about the stuff you were seeking from australia instead be of any use to you instead? https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#effetto-dei-vaccini has neat info... it's all in italian, but "Casi, ricoveri e decessi per stato vaccinale" tells you what percentage of the population (popolazione), of cases (casi), of hospitalizations (ricoveri), of ICU (TI), deaths (decessi) is in unvaccinated, partially vaccinated, | 03:31 |
| LjL | and fully vaccinated, and if you click on "Incidenza" it normalizes that by the amount of people who are vaccinated (to avoid the "if 100% of the population is vaccinated, 100% of the deaths are in the vaccinated" so-called paradox) | 03:31 |
| LjL | and the graph below that one shows cases in vaccinated vs unvaccinated over time (or hospitalizations, ICU and deaths if you click the "Nuovi casi ogni 100mila" dropdown box and select another thing) | 03:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | vaccinati probably means vaccinated :P | 03:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | I'm reading it like my italian friend now | 03:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | it does look nice, I wish they included comorbidities too but that's too much to ask haha | 03:33 |
| LjL | yes it does mean that | 03:34 |
| xx | expect a massive spike in coronavirus cases in the next week or two weeks | 03:34 |
| LjL | it doesn't specify if by "fully vaccinated" it means two doses or three, but i think two | 03:35 |
| xx | I've seen what's going on outside regarding new year events... | 03:35 |
| xx | hundreds of thousands of people in close proximity | 03:35 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, further down it also gives you estimated vaccine efficacy (on various endpoints) *over time* | 03:39 |
| LjL | "Efficacia dei vaccini, serie storica" | 03:39 |
| LjL | meaning, not after how long since you got the vaccine though, but just in time | 03:39 |
| LjL | helps with figuring out effects of variants i suppose | 03:40 |
| Tuvix | We'd also expect to see the number of 'fully vaccinated' (meaning at least 2, and possibly 3) hospitalizations rize if there was a notable chagne in severe outcomes for even the unboosted. | 03:40 |
| LjL | but there's also an estimate of effectiveness drop after 5 months, "Quanto cala l'efficacia dopo 5 mesi" | 03:41 |
| LjL | on diagnosis and severe disease, but it doesn't say how severe disease is defined | 03:41 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and it's probably worse, just not "a whole lot worse." | 03:42 |
| LjL | so it estimates efficacy within 5 months averages 92.7% and >5 months (however long italians have waited, i suppose) 82.6% | 03:42 |
| LjL | (on severe disease) | 03:42 |
| Tuvix | The reality is we really just don't know since we haven't had the distinction between primary dose vs boosted for all that long. | 03:42 |
| LjL | (much worse drop on cases) | 03:42 |
| Tuvix | And there's also a data gap I think, at least in easily available public data. | 03:42 |
| LjL | Tuvix, well we do have people who haven't got a booster so we can see how two-dosed people fare in time | 03:43 |
| Tuvix | Yes, it's a lot worse with cases, and that's a problem when hospitals get more in beds as a result that we don't have, or hits unvac'd populations. | 03:43 |
| Tuvix | Right, those not following advice or who don't have access (in parts of the world where that's an issue) will be part of an intrinsic A/B comparison group, though with less control than a real study I suppose. | 03:43 |
| LjL | too bad this paper had its COVID page (on case data, not on vaccinations though) in English too, but then dropped the English part | 03:43 |
| LjL | it's pretty good | 03:44 |
| LjL | Tuvix, yeah not as good as a real study as there may be correlations such as either taking more risks because if they don't want to get vaccinated maybe they are COVID deniers or similar, or conversely taking fewer risks because of awareness of not being fully vaccinated (not sure which would prevail) | 03:45 |
| Tuvix | Yea, hard to tell. I'd have loved to know if some of the unmasked when I topped off on groceries and a bottle of sparkling wine for later tonight were vaccinated and figured they were (still) protected, or unvaccinated and didn't care. | 03:46 |
| Tuvix | I had to ask the gal (mom I'd presume) of a 3-person family to move aside so I could access the self-checkout she was blocking. None were masked, and the kid was maybe 9 to 13 if I had to guess. | 03:47 |
| Tuvix | It was quite packed there, but that's really not a bring your family to the venue kind of day, especially if you have 2 adults who could presumably be watching the kid at home. But hey, not my family, and I had my quality mask on. | 03:48 |
| LjL | it's pretty crazy how high the positive ratio even of *antigen* tests, which used not to be a very sensitive indicator, is in italy now | 03:54 |
| LjL | https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/#box_6a | 03:55 |
| LjL | left is PCR, right is antigen | 03:55 |
| LjL | PCR is at 22% positive, antigen is at 7.5% positive, it's naturally still less, but before, antigen had never been over 1% | 03:56 |
| LjL | which... could be a good thing for testing i guess? omicron having more viral load and showing up more easily on antigen? | 03:56 |
| LjL | if that's the reason, and not everyone and their cats being infected :P | 03:56 |
| oerheks | or there are more tests done .. | 03:56 |
| LjL | it's the rate, oerheks | 03:57 |
| LjL | cases/tests | 03:57 |
| LjL | if x% of the tests done is positive, that isn't dependent on how many tests are done | 03:57 |
| LjL | (or rather, it tends to be that the *more* tests you do, the *less* the rate is, other things being equal, because you're generally testing more negative people if you're testing more indiscriminately) | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Resolutions for making 2022 a better, healthier year → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt9l0m/dr_sanjay_gupta_resolutions_for_making_2022_a/ | 03:58 |
| LjL | pretty ridiculous with the hard wall of cases we're facing, further restrictions mostly on "holiday-type things" will enter into force... on January 10 :| | 03:59 |
| Tuvix | And many places are just "done" with meaningful restrictions anyway, relying on messaging and "recommendations" and other partially-effective only policies to encourage folks to do things like vaccinate & mask. | 04:01 |
| LjL | Tuvix, i just feel, you know... if that's the strategy they want to adopt, if they want to face Omicron head-first, i might not agree, but i don't get to decide the country's strategy. but if they *do* put restrictions on things like hotels, ski resorts, fairs... but they make it start *from January 10*?! then i just feel like they're taking the piss | 04:11 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and some of that may be about not pushing people away from folloiwng (or business owners having to *enforce* the policy) for the holiday season. | 04:12 |
| Tuvix | People are a fickle bunch, and while I don't really think the public messaging from a lot of country-level departments and figureheads is as productive as it could be, I also don't have a better solution that I have data would actually get more people to follow the rules anyway. | 04:13 |
| Tuvix | The CDC head literally said as much when she explained the isolation changes were driven in part by what they estimated people would actually follow, or at least some of them. | 04:14 |
| LjL | that might be reasonable | 04:14 |
| LjL | but if there will be a huge surge in cases it will be due to christmas, new year and related vacation (skiing etc) together with Omicron already naturally being causing a surge | 04:15 |
| LjL | what happens after January 10 is virtually irrelevant | 04:15 |
| Tuvix | Right, I'm not saying it's good policy, but a great policy that isn't followed is also pretty worthless, while you & I may be more happy. | 04:15 |
| Tuvix | We're also not really the target of much of this advice, given we're being a lot more careful than guidance would suggest. | 04:16 |
| LjL | Tuvix, this is Italy so there's always strange exceptions to the law, places that manage to stay open despite being ordered closed, and so on... but they are not the norm because when we have lockdown rules they are generally enforced by authorities, they are not recommendations. so "ski resort must be closed" would not be a recommendation | 04:16 |
| LjL | ski resort stays open anyway, ski resort gets raided by police | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covid-19 experts agree: 2021 was a failure for vaccine distribution → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rt9xa3/covid19_experts_agree_2021_was_a_failure_for/ | 04:17 |
| Tuvix | Ah, yea, and if there's enforcement especially at the local/regional levels, those hold more weight. | 04:17 |
| LjL | (then potentially you have some ski resort that's friends with a regional governor, and that one mysteriously stays open, yes) | 04:18 |
| Tuvix | But even the bars/dining closures we had here pre-vaccination were very loosely followed. It didn't take much for people to dine-in anyway, and for establishments to just look the other way becuase they wanted the business so badly. | 04:18 |
| LjL | there are rule that are enforceable, and others that are not so much | 04:19 |
| LjL | it's generally rather obvious which rules are just there to "show you have some rules", but in practice they will be ignored | 04:20 |
| LjL | i don't know if governments do it for show, or they just don't find it obvious and they're stupid | 04:20 |
| LjL | like, let's say that we've established that infection can occur outdoors too, provided there is a crowd | 04:21 |
| LjL | (which seems to be mostly the line of thought in italy) | 04:21 |
| LjL | you can | 04:21 |
| Tuvix | Around here anyway a lot of it is just pure inability to do anything about it. If I were to have complained to the city/county when they had indoor mask mandates in place that were violated all the time, no one would do anything. | 04:21 |
| Tuvix | _maybe_ they'd send an officer out hours or days after it happened and ask them nicely to do a better job, but it wouldn't have mattered. | 04:21 |
| LjL | 1) require masks outdoors at all times, and face people with a fine for being caught not complying (we did this throughout 2020 and part of 2021) | 04:21 |
| LjL | or | 04:21 |
| LjL | 2) require people *carry* masks but only put them on when they cannot respect the 1m distancing rules | 04:21 |
| LjL | i think it's obvious #2 is unenforceable. but that's the rule we have now | 04:22 |
| Tuvix | Sure, but that 1/2m for 15-minutes or more is also not really helpful, moreso with Omicron, and we also know quality of mask matters. | 04:22 |
| LjL | i'm not saying masks outdoors is actually a good idea, i'm agnostic on that. i'm just saying that *if* the government advisors think it's a good idea, then #2 is a stupid implementation of a rule for it | 04:22 |
| Tuvix | One of the TV anchors on a station here asked Fauci about that, and he effectively said that they'd rather people wear _any_ mask than worry about what quality mask they're wearing. | 04:23 |
| LjL | it is pretty asine, yes | 04:23 |
| Tuvix | We're literally trying to beg people to do even the most basic thing to help this pandemic, because they probably won't anyway. | 04:23 |
| LjL | :\ | 04:23 |
| LjL | Tuvix, i've heard of some schools in italy "rotating" kids' positions in the classroom on a 14 minute schedule | 04:23 |
| LjL | please have this desk to slam your face on | 04:24 |
| Tuvix | And sure, if we had heavy-handed fines and enforcement and suspended driver's license or something maybe we'd have more compliance, but then we'd also have (I'm guessing) huge protests about it. There's just no way to win. | 04:24 |
| Tuvix | I know the fines may work elsewhere in places in the EU, but that's just a non-starter in the US at any rate. | 04:24 |
| LjL | Tuvix, it's funny though because in the US i could sometimes end up in a cell for a few hours just for speeding or something | 04:26 |
| LjL | there is... differently-minded enforcement of things, i guess | 04:26 |
| Tuvix | Yea, and certain agencies have a lot more power than you might think at first. I got quite a bit of questioning (but it wans't really a major deal for me) when *re* entering the US from Canada. The Canadian border guards really asked me almost nothing, but coming back home they wanted to know how much I'd bouht, where I was headed, why I was driving in a snow-storm (we both had to work the next day), | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | wanted to look in my trunk, and so on. | 04:27 |
| LjL | ugh | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | US border can't refuse me entry as a citizen, but if they want they can make it absolutely miserable; the could have detained me, taken pretty much any property I had for as long as they wanted, etc. | 04:27 |
| Tuvix | They didn't do any of that, but they *can* | 04:27 |
| LjL | that sort of thing happens when you're near the Swiss border here | 04:27 |
| LjL | yeah, i've definitely heard stories | 04:28 |
| LjL | Tuvix, also, did you know a few constitutional rights are kind of "suspended" up to a certain distance (i don't remember how much, maybe 100km or so, but a sizable distance) from any land or, as far as i understood, also sea border? | 04:28 |
| Tuvix | I had to bite my tongue and not reply to the "why are you driving in this snow storm" question with "Well officer, we don't get as nice of a time off package as you clearly do and have to work for our living." But I didn't :P | 04:28 |
| LjL | which means if you're near Mexico you can get questioned outside of constitutional guarantees, but also if you are... in NYC | 04:28 |
| LjL | maybe it's 60 miles | 04:29 |
| LjL | it's 100 miles | 04:30 |
| Tuvix | I hadn't heard that, no, but of course the US runs off-shore facilities around the globe, such as where we sent the 9/11 suspects. Not that it's unique to the US, but there are "procedural" ways to suspend laws that are in the way of people who think that's appropriate for whatever reason. | 04:30 |
| LjL | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception#/map/0 | 04:30 |
| LjL | *most* of the US population lives within this mapped area | 04:30 |
| Tuvix | Oh, yea, the theory is that CBP needs to "investigate" things related to entry to the US. But similar flawed logic is sometimes used by say local officers who enter a building based on exigent circumstances which turn out to be improper. Prooving that is sometimes hard without good evidence. | 04:33 |
| Tuvix | But that also leads to things like one of the Tor developers having almost any device he carried across a US border taken from him, and effectively never returned. | 04:33 |
| Tuvix | He started travelling with cheap laptops with no hard drive and just downloading his data from the cloud at his destination to avoid it. | 04:34 |
| LjL | but the thing is, with this incredibly wide 100 mile strip that includes most of the US population, the "excuse" of border searches can be used to make searches without probably cause in the biggest US cities | 04:35 |
| LjL | the sea is a border. anything within 100 miles of it is subject to "border search exemption". you are in NYC. the officer claims he thinks you came on a boat illegally somehow. now they can do things outside of the 4th amendment | 04:36 |
| LjL | whether you actually crossed the border becomes sort of irrelevant, or at best, relevant later in court only | 04:36 |
| Tuvix | Right, the so-called "chilling effect" of these. It's not a power that's often abused widely, but enough where it does impact people's lives. | 04:37 |
| LjL | Tuvix, have this: someone who's actually mentioned in a book written by a former US president as someone who helped avoid nuclear conflict between the US and the USSR during the cold war, so, presumably, someone who'd be considered a national hero or something, was flying to Canada with a layover in the United States. only, the US Customs told him he was persona non grata on US soil and sent him back. | 04:39 |
| LjL | i'm not naming names because this was told to me privately by a relative of this person | 04:39 |
| Tuvix | Yea, you get on the wrong kind of "list" and you have trouble, sometimes ill-explained trouble that you can't even protest much less identify the real cause for. | 04:40 |
| LjL | Tuvix, these days to enter the US from Europe or many other places you have to fill in an ESTA form where you're supposed to include a list of all your public online accounts | 04:42 |
| LjL | so i better not complain too much about US Customs on Reddit or whatever, eh | 04:42 |
| LjL | i might be on a list just because of something i've ranted about on Facebook one day | 04:42 |
| LjL | that's if i used Facebook. i don't, which might be reason enough for suspicion one of these days ;( | 04:42 |
| Tuvix | Perhaps less with the Facebook Papers and similar points of discussion. It's got just enough shade on it to be potentially reasonable to leave such platforms on self-wellness grounds. | 04:43 |
| Tuvix | The whole "Meta" renaming is a bit of a joke too. Maybe before Zuckerberg wants to be in central control of how we socialize he should fix the misinformation (see: elections, covid, etc) on the platform, _then_ figure out how to become the metaverse manager or whatever his self-vision is. | 04:44 |
| LjL | maybe. when i tried to look at the online ESTA form, there was a list of "suggested" sites for which you might need to provide account data (not exhaustive) | 04:45 |
| LjL | i saw a pastebin among those, and wondered what the heck it was doing there | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: S. Korea: New infections below 5,000 for 2nd day, distancing curbs extended for 2 more weeks → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtafsf/s_korea_new_infections_below_5000_for_2nd_day/ | 04:45 |
| LjL | when i googled it it turned out to be a pastebin that for some reason was used by terrorist organizations to exchange stuff | 04:45 |
| LjL | obviously the form didn't list all the pastebins on the web, but i'm pretty sure you'd have trouble if you admitted to having an account on that particular one | 04:46 |
| Tuvix | Sounds like a whack-a-mole list of places the government has seen problems and wants to be sure everyone knows they've heard about it. | 04:46 |
| Tuvix | Also a handy excuse to deny entry if they dig just enough to identify some accounts they deem important that you failed to mention. | 04:47 |
| Tuvix | Make the rules complex or obscure enough and no one is allowed entry by the strictest reading. | 04:47 |
| LjL | yeah, i think in that case, at least in theory, you may not even *just* be denied entry, you could be in more trouble | 04:47 |
| LjL | as you've technically lied on a federal something | 04:47 |
| LjL | although, since i'm not a US citizen, when i enter the US they can hold me for pretty much any reason or no reason anyway, they don't need me to have lied | 04:48 |
| Tuvix | Yup, borders are very strange places. | 04:48 |
| Tuvix | COVID has no problem passing though! :\ | 04:49 |
| Tuvix | It must have filled out all the right forms. | 04:49 |
| LjL | Tuvix, ius soli: the first SARS-COV-2 virion that entered the US may have technically been an illegal migrant, but its offspring was born on US soil, so they're fine | 04:51 |
| LjL | okay that was a pretty weak joke | 04:52 |
| Tuvix | heh, and we'll have court battles for years over how to classify them. Although we're doing a fine job of welcoming them into our homes, places of business, and worship it would seem. | 04:52 |
| LjL | hmm i wonder if we still have the hilarious "can go to church, but no shaking hands and saying peace be with you" | 04:54 |
| LjL | rule | 04:54 |
| Tuvix | Somewhere early on in the pandemic (I want to say in SAE somewhere) a huge and obviously unmasked cult including singing/worship was the source of a huge outbreak with almost everyone attending infected. | 04:55 |
| Tuvix | And then of course they go home and spread it to a 2nd circle of contacts. | 04:55 |
| LjL | yeah, some choirs got infected like crazy | 04:56 |
| LjL | singing is probably a good way to be a superspreader | 04:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Sorrento Therapeutics’ COVISTIX Covid-19 test detects Omicron variant → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtb0ik/sorrento_therapeutics_covistix_covid19_test/ | 05:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +15686 cases (now 2.1 million), +23 deaths (now 28331) since 2 hours ago | 05:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for EI (unemployment) benefits, minister says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtbgi7/unvaccinated_workers_who_lose_jobs_ineligible_for/ | 05:51 |
| Tuvix | And just like that, thousands in times square jsut removed masks to take a drink. | 06:00 |
| oerheks | flurona :-D | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Grenada: +118 cases (now 6299), +992 tests (now 94927, 0.000000% positive) since 2 hours ago — India: +794 cases (now 34.9 million), +251 deaths (now 481486) since 2 hours ago | 06:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 848: COVID-19 clinical update #95 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #95, Daniel Griffin discusses new CDC guidelines for isolation and quarantine, EUA for Molnupiravir, children and COVID, vaccine safety in 5-11 year olds, Omicron outbreaks in Nebraska and Denmark, Baylor's COVID [... want %more?] → https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-848/ | 06:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian COVID-19 hospitalizations up 67 per cent in week as Omicron takes hold → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtc6q6/canadian_covid19_hospitalizations_up_67_per_cent/ | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Patients hospitalized with Covid-19 who had a combination of high blood pressure, obesity, diabetes or other conditions associated with metabolic syndrome were at much higher risk of acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and death, according to [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/rtc9oa/patients_hospitalized_with_covid19_who_had_a/ | 06:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +119927 cases (now 4.2 million), +24 deaths (now 62504) since 3 hours ago — California, United States: +58829 cases (now 5.5 million), +83 deaths (now 76520) since 3 hours ago — Lombardy, Italy: +41458 cases (now 1.2 million), +37 deaths (now 35081) since 3 hours ago [... want %more?] | 06:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Identification of TCR repertoires in functionally competent cytotoxic T cells cross-reactive to SARS-CoV-2 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtckdy/identification_of_tcr_repertoires_in_functionally/ | 06:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Malaysia : Health Ministry studying need for fourth shot among Sinovac-Pfizer recipients → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtclfc/malaysia_health_ministry_studying_need_for_fourth/ | 06:58 |
| Tuvix | nyan | 07:02 |
| Tuvix | Aw, not a cat channel. | 07:03 |
| * Tuvix goes to fix channel tab layout. | 07:03 | |
| Tuvix | Also, that Canadian increase of 67 percent, off. I wonder if that's going to hold with the new year data reporting. Guess we'll see next week. | 07:04 |
| Tuvix | oof* | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: "Hospital emergency" declared in Maryland; health centers to implement "crisis policies" → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtd3lo/hospital_emergency_declared_in_maryland_health/ | 07:16 |
| Tuvix | 49% hospitalization increase from 2 weeks prior according to that MD, USA article | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Could omicron be the beginning of the end of the COVID-19 pandemic? → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtd5rv/could_omicron_be_the_beginning_of_the_end_of_the/ | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Ontario restricts testing to high-risk, symptomatic individuals due to lack of testing capacity → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtdpuz/ontario_restricts_testing_to_highrisk_symptomatic/ | 08:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Canadian restaurants grapple with dim New Year’s for 2nd year in a row - National | Globalnews.ca → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtdzye/canadian_restaurants_grapple_with_dim_new_years/ | 08:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +757 cases (now 3.2 million) since 5 hours ago | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: China ends 2021 with worst COVID week since taming original epidemic → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rte7dk/china_ends_2021_with_worst_covid_week_since/ | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 01, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtepvd/daily_discussion_thread_january_01_2022/ | 09:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Maharashtra, India: +8067 cases (now 6.7 million), +8 deaths (now 141526) since 6 hours ago — West Bengal, India: +3451 cases (now 1.6 million), +7 deaths (now 19764) since 6 hours ago — Delhi, India: +1796 cases (now 1.4 million) since 6 hours ago — Tamil Nadu, India: +1155 cases (now 2.7 million), +11 deaths (now 36776) since 6 hours ago | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Gauteng records significant decline in Covid-19 hospital → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtf1e1/gauteng_records_significant_decline_in_covid19/ | 09:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Eric Adams Details Omicron Battle Plan as NYC COVID Rates, Hospitalizations Soar → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtf3t4/eric_adams_details_omicron_battle_plan_as_nyc/ | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Scientists say Omicron may peak in the U.S. in mid-January but still may overwhelm hospitals. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtf9bv/scientists_say_omicron_may_peak_in_the_us_in/ | 09:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Philippines: +3507 cases (now 2.8 million), +41 deaths (now 51545) since 6 hours ago | 10:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Xi'an: Cries for help and food in quarantined Chinese city. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtfc2x/xian_cries_for_help_and_food_in_quarantined/ | 10:06 |
| saviormatrix[m] | The Elites, Secret Controllers Have Final Chance To Receive Help From The Savior Till 16-01-2022 https://illusioncyber.forumotion.com/t18-the-elites-secret-controllers-have-final-chance-to-receive-help-from-the-savior-till-16-01-2022 | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: App 'DreamLab' by Imperial College London can accelerate COVID research by using your mobile phone's processing power → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtg45x/app_dreamlab_by_imperial_college_london_can/ | 11:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China opens embassy in Nicaragua for first time since 1990 after Taiwan ties cut. Nicaragua’s move to cut ties with Taiwan increased the island’s diplomatic isolation on the international stage. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtggyx/china_opens_embassy_in_nicaragua_for_first_time/ | 11:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turks and Caicos: +124 cases (now 3408) since 8 hours ago — Montserrat: +4 cases (now 50) since 8 hours ago | 11:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Out after peer-review.Binding to the B.1.1.529 receptor binding domain (RBD) and N-terminal domain (NTD) was reduced in convalescent not vaccinated individuals, but was mostly retained in vaccinated individuals.nature.com/articles/d4158… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1477226297583714304 | 11:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Reduced COVID-19 isolation for NSW healthcare staff a 'catch-up' measure to stop system 'collapsing' → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtgxey/reduced_covid19_isolation_for_nsw_healthcare/ | 11:59 |
| sdfgsdfg | sweden stopped moderna for 30 year olds and younger right... being 31, if I remember the statistics research right, this is like the peak age for highest incidence of side effects like myocarditis - of which 5 percent also die in following year and some of the rest develop cardiac diseases | 12:20 |
| sdfgsdfg | side effect incidence also seemed to rise exponentially with additional boosters | 12:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A ‘very strange’ omicron variant symptom has emerged → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rthc1k/a_very_strange_omicron_variant_symptom_has_emerged/ | 12:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: First case of ‘florona’ detected in Israel: Know about this double infection of Covid-19 and influenza → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/health/florona-israel-covid-19-pandemic-flu-influenza-7701201/ | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saudi Arabia: +846 cases (now 557082), +1 deaths (now 8878) since 9 hours ago — United Kingdom: +931 cases (now 13.0 million) since 9 hours ago | 12:37 |
| minthos | florona sounds like a strain bred in florida, coflu is more descriptive | 12:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Jeffrey Barrett (@jcbarret): @PeacockFlu Awesome paper, Tom. Question on ACE2 binding compared to other variants: you show Omicron highest of all (fig 3b), but Cameroni et al showed Alpha as king (fig 1d). You note flow cytometry of full spike is different than surface plasmon resonance—do [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1477244295807709189 | 12:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: FDA says Covid-19 antigen tests may be less sensitive to Omicron variant → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rthv82/fda_says_covid19_antigen_tests_may_be_less/ | 13:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: NJ's Largest Hospital System Expects Hospitalizations to Exceed Worst of 2020 Soon → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rthyer/njs_largest_hospital_system_expects/ | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: People strongly favour a fairer and more sustainable way of life in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, despite not thinking it will actually materialise or that others share the same progressive wishes, according to new research which sheds intriguing [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/rti71b/people_strongly_favour_a_fairer_and_more/ | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +342 cases (now 828773), +5007 tests (now 4.9 million, 0.0% positive) since 10 hours ago | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: N.J.’s COVID activity map is mostly red for the 1st time since 2020. Here’s what it means for schools. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rti8iv/njs_covid_activity_map_is_mostly_red_for_the_1st/ | 13:34 |
| greenel | Best regards for the New Year! Health, happiness and success should be your companions 2022 | 13:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): So as the new year begins, I’d like to share this; my thoughts and feelings of hope for humanity. “One Day” was written with @oddjensen and deals with climate change but could be applied to the pandemic, too. The song can be heard here. Happy New Year. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1477254940766703618 | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Florida breaks single-day COVID case record → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtipom/florida_breaks_singleday_covid_case_record/ | 14:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Senegal: +282 cases (now 75337), +1922 tests (now 921470, 0.0% positive) since 10 hours ago | 14:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Study confirms COVID-19 PCR saliva test at least as accurate as nasal swabs → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtj1i5/study_confirms_covid19_pcr_saliva_test_at_least/ | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Pfizer's COVID-19 shot causes mostly mild side-effects in young kids, says U.S. CDC → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtj7e4/pfizers_covid19_shot_causes_mostly_mild/ | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +2556 cases (now 764493), +1 deaths (now 2165), +463616 tests (now 111.8 million, 0.0% positive) since 11 hours ago | 14:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: China welcomes 2022 with worst COVID week since taming virus → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtjbnz/china_welcomes_2022_with_worst_covid_week_since/ | 14:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Fluvoxamine for outpatients with COVID-19: where do we stand? → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtjnbx/fluvoxamine_for_outpatients_with_covid19_where_do/ | 14:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Early, raw data from Israel may indicate reduced sensitivity of rapid antigen tests in omicron infection twitter.com/Nadav_Eyal/sta… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1477275857978900482 | 14:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): We need studies that look at sensitivity of these tests when samples are taken from nose vs throat/inside of chin. Here, saliva swabs were found the preferred sample for omicron detection: This "supports ex-vivo data of altered tissue tropism for Omicron" [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1477278716459896844 | 15:17 |
| oerheks | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-omicron-africa-vaccines-hoarding-b1985291.html | 15:24 |
| oerheks | we Dutch are not any better .. | 15:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Over 800 sham COVID certificates revealed at Kyiv airport since August - border guards → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtk28h/over_800_sham_covid_certificates_revealed_at_kyiv/ | 15:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +815 cases (now 54147), +2 deaths (now 700), +3552 tests (now 474699, 0.0% positive) since 2 days ago — Bangladesh: +370 cases (now 1.6 million), +4 deaths (now 28076), +33887 tests (now 11.5 million, 0.0% positive) since 12 hours ago — United Kingdom: +1024 cases (now 13.0 million) since 12 hours ago | 15:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Characteristics and Clinical Outcomes of Children and Adolescents Aged <18 Years Hospitalized with COVID-19 — Six Hospitals, United States, July–August 2021 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtk7v9/characteristics_and_clinical_outcomes_of_children/ | 15:36 |
| de-facto | Happy New Year! May it bring some sanity and success by using scientific approaches and reasoning. | 15:39 |
| oerheks | Same to you de-facto, welcome to 2022 | 15:40 |
| Dredd | I wouldn't keep your hopes up 😉 | 15:40 |
| Dredd | But happy new year in any case | 15:40 |
| Dredd | 🙂 | 15:40 |
| oerheks | new year, new name; flurona | 15:41 |
| Dredd | Coviflu | 15:43 |
| Dredd | Influona | 15:44 |
| oerheks | jups | 15:44 |
| Dredd | Flucova | 15:44 |
| Dredd | Why didn't AstraZeneca can l call their jab AstraCoveca? | 15:45 |
| de-facto | nonono its a CoV, its never going to be like Influenza | 15:45 |
| Dredd | Much better than the terrible name I don't even remember | 15:45 |
| de-facto | it may become closer to nCoVs though (hopefully) | 15:45 |
| Dredd | de-facto: Defactovid | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India sends 500,000 vaccines to Afghanistan → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtkgdh/india_sends_500000_vaccines_to_afghanistan/ | 15:46 |
| Dredd | Vaxzevria | 15:46 |
| Dredd | It's so non specific | 15:47 |
| Dredd | I already know it's a vaccine | 15:47 |
| de-facto | hCoVs like 229E, HKU1, NL63, OC43 | 15:47 |
| Dredd | And zevria is just nonsense | 15:47 |
| Dredd | AstraCoveca is much more descriptive | 15:47 |
| de-facto | AZD1222 containing ChAdOx1-S | 15:49 |
| Dredd | I should start a petition to rename the vaccine 😂 | 15:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron Surge Drives Hospitalizations To Record-Breaking Levels In D.C. Region → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtkkwm/omicron_surge_drives_hospitalizations_to/ | 15:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Hospitals may have to reintroduce visitor bans, NHS chief says → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtl5k6/hospitals_may_have_to_reintroduce_visitor_bans/ | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: Arts groups innovate to battle COVID-caused revenue downturn → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/arts-groups-innovate-battle-covid-caused-revenue-downturn-7699974/ | 16:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: India Sending 1 Million Covaxin Doses to Afghanistan for First Time after Taliban Takeover → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtlepf/india_sending_1_million_covaxin_doses_to/ | 16:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Melbourne man sets himself on fire while screaming about Dan Andrews' Covid vaccine mandates → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtlffl/melbourne_man_sets_himself_on_fire_while/ | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: UAE to ban non-vaccinated citizens from traveling abroad from Jan. 10 → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtlwf3/uae_to_ban_nonvaccinated_citizens_from_traveling/ | 17:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +1904 cases (now 1.8 million), +25 deaths (now 39140), +124293 tests (now 27.4 million, 0.0% positive) since 13 hours ago | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Omicron science makes the front page twitter.com/EricTopol/stat… pic.twitter.com/cYGpqZPuym → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1477307673250971648 | 17:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covaxin shows robust safety, immunogenicity in 2-18-year-olds: Bharat Biotech reveals clinical trial data → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtmcx1/covaxin_shows_robust_safety_immunogenicity_in/ | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Montenegro: +1839 cases (now 171873), +3 deaths (now 2414), +6195 tests (now 984760, 0.0% positive) since 14 hours ago — Netherlands: +16327 cases (now 3.2 million), +27 deaths (now 21419) since 14 hours ago | 17:37 |
| Arsanerit | %cases Netherlands | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: Netherlands has had 3.2 million confirmed cases (18.3% of all people) and 21419 deaths (0.7% of cases; 1 in 815 people) as of 59 seconds ago. 14.0 million tests were done (22.8% positive). 13.3 million were vaccinated (76.2%). +16327 cases, +27 deaths since 14 hours ago. See https://coronadashboard.government.nl/ | 17:38 |
| Arsanerit | 18.3% of all people, that sounds like a lot | 17:38 |
| Arsanerit | @cases Belgium | 17:38 |
| Arsanerit | %cases Belgium | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: Belgium has had 2.1 million confirmed cases (18.3% of all people) and 28331 deaths (1.3% of cases; 1 in 407 people) as of 12 hours ago. 27.3 million tests were done (7.7% positive). 8.9 million were vaccinated (77.3%). See https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/ | 17:38 |
| Arsanerit | also 18.3% | 17:38 |
| oerheks | this does not sound right | 17:44 |
| oerheks | NL 17m, Belgium 11,6m ... could be right after all | 17:45 |
| oerheks | %cases Denmark | 17:45 |
| Brainstorm | oerheks: Denmark has had 831657 confirmed cases (14.3% of all people) and 3287 deaths (0.4% of cases; 1 in 1771 people) as of an hour ago. 107.4 million tests were done (0.8% positive). 4.8 million were vaccinated (82.5%). +20885 cases, +5 deaths since 13 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Denmark&legacy=no | 17:45 |
| Brainstorm | oerheks: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Denmark, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 17:45 |
| Arsanerit | %cases Germany | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: Germany has had 7.2 million confirmed cases (8.6% of all people) and 112778 deaths (1.6% of cases; 1 in 737 people) as of 34 minutes ago. 89.6 million tests were done (8.0% positive). 61.7 million were vaccinated (74.2%). +16738 cases since 3 hours ago. See https://corona.rki.de/ | 17:46 |
| Arsanerit | %cases Sweden | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: Sweden has had 1.3 million confirmed cases (12.7% of all people) and 15310 deaths (1.2% of cases; 1 in 675 people) as of 2 days ago. 14.9 million tests were done (8.8% positive). 7.8 million were vaccinated (75.0%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden&legacy=no | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | Arsanerit: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Sweden, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Saturday 01 January 2022 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/rtmz8a/saturday_01_january_2022_update/ | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Resistance Conferring Mutations in Sars-CoV-2 Delta Following Sotrovimab Infusion → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtn8xr/resistance_conferring_mutations_in_sarscov2_delta/ | 17:59 |
| LjL | Well of course if sotrovimab remains the only usable mab there will be resistance developed | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: 'We can get our normal lives back' in 2022, says German health minister → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtnja0/we_can_get_our_normal_lives_back_in_2022_says/ | 18:27 |
| LjL | i think i've heard that in 2021 and 2020 | 18:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: All U.S. forces' personnel to take virus test after arrival in Japan → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtnqny/all_us_forces_personnel_to_take_virus_test_after/ | 18:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Resistance conferring mutations in SARS-CoV-2 Delta following Sotrovimab infusion ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/FSIQCX9F ) | 18:38 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Cross-neutralization of SARS-CoV-2 by a human monoclonal SARS-CoV antibody ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/2GQKVADQ ) | 18:38 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Morocco: +2328 cases (now 965420), +2 deaths (now 14851), +40052 tests (now 10.9 million, 0.0% positive) since 15 hours ago — Qatar: +833 cases (now 251361), +5623 tests (now 3.2 million, 0.0% positive) since 15 hours ago — Cuba: +469 cases (now 966473), +1 deaths (now 8323), +66893 tests (now 11.7 million, 0.0% positive) since 15 hours ago | 18:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Finnish Parliament approves bill on mandatory vaccinations in social and health care → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtnxk0/finnish_parliament_approves_bill_on_mandatory/ | 18:46 |
| lastshell | family will leave tomorrow, so far we are not showing syntoms | 18:52 |
| lastshell | I guess I have to wait 2 weeks to be sure | 18:52 |
| de-facto | incubation time with omicron in Norway Christmas party was like 3 days for most | 18:55 |
| de-facto | so yeah possibly 2 weeks but more likely 3-5 days | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: People want a better world after the COVID-19 pandemic but don’t believe it will really happen → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rto2xq/people_want_a_better_world_after_the_covid19/ | 18:55 |
| lastshell | I hope we are in the clear all where using n95/kn95 outside home | 18:55 |
| lastshell | and vaxxed and booster some members | 18:56 |
| lastshell | I also had merc filters and hepa filters at home but we don't wear masks indoors | 18:56 |
| lastshell | also we spray laysol in our cloths before going to the car | 18:57 |
| de-facto | i did the same, visited family, all vaccinated (I think even all boostered), wearing FFP2/N95 outside home indoors, i tested everyday during my visit with a rapid antigen test, just to be sure i did not bring it to them via traveling | 18:57 |
| lastshell | nice de-facto | 18:57 |
| de-facto | i did wear FFP3/N100 the whole time in the train and in the stores, it turned out to be fine | 18:57 |
| lastshell | was sort of normal xmas this time | 18:57 |
| lastshell | thats good | 18:58 |
| de-facto | although my corona warn app showed a "red" alert of risk contact, but i did wear FFP3 the entire time (strictly, all the time), so it turned out that it protected me | 18:58 |
| de-facto | i think it was from shopping in the stores, and another in the train | 18:59 |
| lastshell | ny notification never ringed but I'm in a red state so few people will use the app :( | 18:59 |
| de-facto | it must be a contact for at least 15 min | 18:59 |
| de-facto | first time ever it warned me, but i was not worried too much since i knew i most likely was protected by wearing airtight mask and tested everyday | 19:00 |
| lastshell | very nice de-facto | 19:00 |
| de-facto | furtonately those rapid antigen tests are available in every supermarket here, now cost around 2-3€ each test | 19:01 |
| lastshell | where are you located de-facto ? | 19:02 |
| de-facto | i know they are not perfect, but when doing them everyday they most likely would have alerted me if i was highly infectious | 19:02 |
| de-facto | Germany | 19:02 |
| lastshell | ahh | 19:02 |
| lastshell | not sure if we have covid test over here I might get some to be sure | 19:02 |
| lastshell | (Nevada, US) | 19:03 |
| de-facto | those tests help with detecting infections, but they are not super reliable, yet better than nothing | 19:05 |
| de-facto | they work by latching artificial antibodies on potential N-protein in the sample | 19:06 |
| de-facto | most should work with Omicron too, although i read somewhere possibly with less accuracy (maybe also due to Omicron having shorter incubation time) | 19:07 |
| de-facto | afaik incubation was like 5 days with Alpha et al, went down to 4 days with Delta and now is around 3 days with Omicron | 19:07 |
| de-facto | so if such a rapid antigen test is less sensitive it may still give a false negative, but when Omicron replicates super fast it may reach infectious shedding earlier, hence lead to an unaware spreader | 19:09 |
| de-facto | so i still was careful, wearing masks inside cars etc | 19:09 |
| lastshell | yeah we wear masks in the cars even with family | 19:09 |
| lastshell | but at home don't but using the filters | 19:09 |
| de-facto | nice | 19:10 |
| de-facto | we did not had filters at home, and everyone except me always is against opening windows, so it was potential for conflict :P | 19:10 |
| de-facto | ...as every Christmas, but oh well :P | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +89705 cases (now 13.1 million) since 15 hours ago | 19:10 |
| lastshell | I open some windows here but yeah weather was not very nice between 5 to 10 celcius | 19:11 |
| lastshell | at nigh/early morning | 19:11 |
| de-facto | we even had some snow on Christmas | 19:11 |
| lastshell | wow | 19:11 |
| de-facto | only falling though, directly melted | 19:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why is Omicron so much more transmissible than Delta and previous variants? Enhanced binding and entering cells in the upper airway may be the explanationWork by @PeacockFlu @wendybarclay11 and colleaguesand preprint twitter.com/PeacockFlu/sta… pic.twitter.com/5TexbyzBHR → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1477340216574709760 | 19:14 |
| de-facto | but was nice seeing them in person, and traveling was only inside Germany, so not importing mutants | 19:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: US experts question whether counting Covid cases is still the right approach | US news → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtoxrm/us_experts_question_whether_counting_covid_cases/ | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +5301 cases (now 1.4 million), +1 deaths (now 8244) since 16 hours ago — Italy: +141256 cases (now 6.3 million), +111 deaths (now 137513), +2308320 tests (now 141.2 million, 0.0% positive) since 16 hours ago — Canada: +4570 cases (now 2.2 million), +4 deaths (now 30378) since 16 hours ago | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): For @NHSEngland, last week Omicron was associated with absence (sick or isolating) of ~68,000 healthcare professionals, representing 5% of the workforce ft.com/content/3d2c5e… pic.twitter.com/kLT2v3gkwM → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1477350606268370947 | 19:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: French burn fewer cars on New Year’s Eve due to pandemic → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/french-burn-fewer-cars-on-new-years-eve-due-to-pandemic-7701729/ | 20:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Recognizing the phenomenal work of @PeterHotez and @mebottazzi "We're not trying to make money. We just want to see people get vaccinated."@TexasChildrens @BCM_TropMed @bcmhouston washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/… by @mradamtaylor pic.twitter.com/IvJqY0NZpL → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1477358233278771203 | 20:20 |
| LjL | burn... fewer cars...? | 20:30 |
| * LjL doesn't even read | 20:30 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtq8ct/risk_of_myocarditis_following_sequential_covid19/ | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +19159 cases (now 7.2 million) since 17 hours ago | 20:31 |
| LjL | de-facto, have you seen what happens when you only have one mAb left to treat patients? https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/Sotrovimab/items/FSIQCX9F/library which is a damn shame because it was a mAb that worked on a LOT of viruses, not even just this one (see the other paper) | 20:32 |
| LjL | ethically it's hard to choose i guess, but i think maybe i wouldn't use sotrovimab at all, if the price for saving some lives with it now is never being able to use it again later | 20:32 |
| LjL | we urgently need another mAb that works with Omicron to add to it | 20:33 |
| de-facto | well thats to be expected, the mAb will not fit perfectly, hence random mutations trying in all directions in the space of possible still fit enough versions will be exposed to a *static* gradient of selection pressure, the mAb can not follow antigenic drift (as a real host immune system may be capable of doing with some delay through feedback), so its an unstable system running away sooner or later into the evasive advantage | 20:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, but that's exactly why mAbs are normally used in a cocktail of at least two | 20:37 |
| LjL | it's unlikely the virus will mutate to evade both of them. but if you only use one, it's given | 20:37 |
| de-facto | yes | 20:37 |
| LjL | and now we're only using this one because it's the only one that works on Omicron :( | 20:37 |
| de-facto | its applying multiple static selection gradients at once | 20:38 |
| de-facto | well the more it is used the more likely Omicron will evade it, and if that evasion mutant can jump to the next host the mAb may not work on that infection chain anymore | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covaxin trial results for 2-18 age group pave way for inoculation of kids → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtq8dt/covaxin_trial_results_for_218_age_group_pave_way/ | 20:39 |
| de-facto | baseline: we are MUCH too slow | 20:39 |
| de-facto | will all our technology, it still takes us months to years to develop something, the virus will mutate in days to weeks | 20:40 |
| de-facto | btw same applies to mono-therapies with the small molecule meds | 20:48 |
| de-facto | it applies static selection pressure, as soon as a single mutation got a tiny advantage edge over it (e.g. by slightly modifying the drug target so the small molecule would not fit anymore without paying too much fitness cost) it would go down that road and making the drug less and less effective | 20:49 |
| LjL | de-facto, Paxlovid is actually two drugs (one new and one we already had), i imagine it's partly for that reason | 20:50 |
| LjL | Molnupiravir is not, but Molnupiravir has other issues too... ;( | 20:50 |
| de-facto | afaik the second drug in Paxlovid is preventing too fast biologic half life of the impactor molecule by blocking some liver enzyme that destroys it, hence it can stay longer in the body | 20:51 |
| de-facto | the second drug does not really have targets on CoVs, doesn't it? | 20:52 |
| de-facto | talking about Ritonavir | 20:52 |
| de-facto | it may inhibit HIV protease, but i dont think it directly inhibits CoV protease | 20:54 |
| LjL | ah | 20:54 |
| LjL | so it's normally an antiviral, but it's not really being used *as* an antiviral here? | 20:54 |
| de-facto | it blocks CYP3A4 in the liver that would destroy the impactor protease inhibitor in Paxlovid | 20:55 |
| de-facto | as far as i understand it it enhances the impact of PF-07321332 | 20:56 |
| de-facto | btw blocking CYP3A4 may also make Ecstasy etc lethal, so people taking that with Ritonavir may die | 20:58 |
| de-facto | or other amphetamines | 20:58 |
| LjL | i think someone mentioned to me somewhere that Paxlovid could interact with some other medications | 21:00 |
| de-facto | as for Molnupiravir, i think its a bad idea to introduce mutations in mRNA, it not only may accelerate antigenic drift but also introduce errors in cell proteins that are synthesized, hence may lead to cell "aging" or dysfunctions etc | 21:01 |
| de-facto | i dont know enough about details, but the whole thing with that Merck drug does not sound like a good idea at all to mee | 21:01 |
| LjL | some twitterers, especially Michael Lin, seem to keep hammering on that point | 21:02 |
| de-facto | disclaimer: i dont know enough about how close to the error limit the usual CoV replication takes place | 21:02 |
| de-facto | i know, he even wrote a Washington post about it | 21:02 |
| LjL | i'd be skeptical of them, or at least Lin, and think he has an axe to grind / some conflict of interest, if it weren't that you expressed the same concern before he even started doing it :P | 21:02 |
| LjL | de-facto, well, he makes the point that since it is only 30% effective, presumably in most of the remaining 70%, the virus still replicates *while mutating*, or else why would it not be 100% effective, if they claim there is no chance the virus mutates while still reproducing | 21:03 |
| de-facto | https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/24/merck-molnupiravir-antiviral-covid-fda/ <-- December 24, 2021 at 6:00 a.m. EST By Michael Z. Lin | 21:03 |
| de-facto | .TITLE | 21:03 |
| de-facto | .title | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.washingtonpost.com: A new drug to treat covid could create a breeding ground for mutant viruses - The Washington Post | 21:04 |
| LjL | yeah i just found it too | 21:04 |
| LjL | i will add it to Zotero | 21:04 |
| de-facto | what i mean is this: normally viruses will make a LOT of mistakes during their reproduction, especially RNA viruses, even those that have the error-proofreading proteases like CoVs | 21:04 |
| LjL | i lean towards thinking his concerns are genuine and probably justified. of course i don't really know | 21:04 |
| LjL | de-facto, well, until Alpha came along, the general understanding seemed to be that this virus "didn't mutate much2 | 21:05 |
| de-facto | so only a tiny fraction of the viruses produces in the replication cycle will be able "fit enough" to infect other cells and produce a few more copies | 21:05 |
| LjL | so we probably thought it had some reasonably reliable proofreading for an RNA virus... | 21:05 |
| de-facto | so the mutation rate we are seeing is not the real mutation rate, its the rate of those mutations that were *not* disadvantageous enough for the virus to not be able to replicate anymore (which is probably the case for most of the virions produced, they just dont reproduce hence are not visible) | 21:06 |
| de-facto | yes the proofreading mechanism allows coronaviruses to even have such a big genome of 30kb | 21:07 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: A new drug to treat covid could create a breeding ground for mutant viruses ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/3NIZA63M ) | 21:08 | |
| de-facto | without it it the replication cycle would not nearly have enough fidelity to reproduce fast enough to expand the number of fit virions | 21:08 |
| de-facto | .title https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001005 | 21:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From journals.plos.org: Quasispecies Theory and the Behavior of RNA Viruses | 21:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France sixth country with more than 10 mln COVID infections → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rtqv6h/france_sixth_country_with_more_than_10_mln_covid/ | 21:10 |
| de-facto | "Second, many viruses operate near a threshold of ‘‘error catastrophe’’ and may be combated by increasing their replication error rates" <-- not sure to what degree that also applies to CoVs | 21:10 |
| de-facto | i just dont like the idea to throw a wrench in the molecular gear unspecifically, id rather prefer to have something specifically targeting only SARS-CoV-2 machinery | 21:12 |
| de-facto | i guess we will see this year how it turns out, they proceed with it | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Neutralization of ancestral SARS-CoV-2 and variants Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Zeta and Omicron by mRNA vaccination and infection-derived immunity through homologous and heterologous variants → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtr78d/neutralization_of_ancestral_sarscov2_and_variants/ | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Turkey starts offering 5th dose of COVID-19 booster shots → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtrf4c/turkey_starts_offering_5th_dose_of_covid19/ | 21:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +219126 cases (now 10.3 million), +110 deaths (now 124839) since 18 hours ago | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: People who believe COVID-19 misinformation are more likely to contract the virus. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtrn85/people_who_believe_covid19_misinformation_are/ | 21:39 |
| xx | if I don't see a massive spike in the next few weeks due to new year events, then I won't believe in coronavirus either | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Plasma Neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron Variant → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/rtrna3/plasma_neutralization_of_the_sarscov2_omicron/ | 21:58 |
| zyxl[m] | <Brainstorm> "New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavi..." <- Remember when this was conspiracy theory? | 22:08 |
| sdfgsdfg | any papers or lab studies that compare the natural immunity from newest variants to x doses of x vaccine ? | 22:23 |
| sdfgsdfg | ideally with immunity waning over time included | 22:24 |
| sdfgsdfg | no ? ok :P | 22:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: France sixth country with more than 10 mln COVID infections → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rtsfjq/france_sixth_country_with_more_than_10_mln_covid/ | 22:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uganda: +1867 cases (now 142604), +3 deaths (now 3297), +8048 tests (now 2.2 million, 0.0% positive) since 19 hours ago — Jamaica: +729 cases (now 94649), +3 deaths (now 2476) since 19 hours ago — Faroe Is.: +317 cases (now 6081), +7000 tests (now 648000, 0.0% positive) since 19 hours ago — Germany: +19706 cases (now 7.2 million) since 19 hours ago | 22:41 |
| oerheks | Since the start of the corona pandemic, 100 million corona infections have been registered in Europe, the French news agency AFP has calculated. Tonight at 7:45 PM, the news agency had counted 100,074,753 positive tests. | 22:46 |
| xx | are those unique infections or are duplicates counted? | 22:47 |
| summonner | I think I caught omicron, so I'm feeling like the Pokemon Master now ;) | 22:49 |
| xx | you sure you had all the other ones already? | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): These Auras for example are not your granddaddy's cup-style N95s. They fit me without any wiggling and that wasn't true for cup N95s. There's a wide flexible padded strip that's easy to shape around your nose. pic.twitter.com/mlcvS0BPeY → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1477397365543739393 | 22:55 |
| summonner | xx, yeah I've had it 4 times already. Is that enough? | 22:59 |
| xx | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 23:00 |
| xx | I don't know how many times I've had it | 23:00 |
| xx | most people probably don't know | 23:00 |
| Tuvix | It's not statistically significant, but the first recorded US death from Omicron was in a patient that had contracted an earlier varient. With Omicron in particular, prior infection may not offer meainingful protection depending on how long ago it was, but vaccination & boosting remains the best approach. | 23:01 |
| Tuvix | Or, roll the dice again I guess and hope there's not another varient that continues the trend? That seems like the less-safe approach. | 23:01 |
| xx | I don't remember the details, but wasn't that patient full of comorbidities, and their health deteriorated even further by the time of the 2nd infection? | 23:01 |
| Tuvix | And yet the prior infection didn't offer any magic shield. Getting infected doesn't mean you won't get re-infected, although I know people who seem to think effectively that. | 23:02 |
| Tuvix | As I said, statistically meaningless (someone was going to die first, odds were better it was someone with underlying conditions too.) | 23:03 |
| summonner | which patient is that? I believe the death that was talked about was denied by the hospital (if it's the same one we're talking about) | 23:03 |
| lastshell | Tuvix the first in US (omicron death I thing was in texas) | 23:04 |
| lastshell | yeah: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/21/us-omicron-coronavirus-death-first-reported/ | 23:05 |
| Tuvix | Guess the county must be in on the conspiracy theory too wtih their press release about the event on a .gov domain. /s | 23:08 |
| sdfgsdfg | summonner that's fantastic, how tough was it ? you had 4 of those infections mild ? | 23:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | also how old are you if you don't mind | 23:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | and are you vaxxed | 23:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): We should move to N95 now not just because the better efficacy (up to 95% block) is useful to slow down transmission by the highly contagious omicron, but also because these new styles are easier to wear right and more comfortable. Here they're [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1477399249520263171 | 23:14 |
| summonner | 52, overweight (not obese) unvaxxed - 1ST was like a bad flu, had me in bed for 4 days coughing up a horrible jelly phlegm, got azithromycin and it cleared up within 1.5 days | 23:15 |
| sdfgsdfg | bhahahaha | 23:16 |
| summonner | 2ND was a flu for 2 days, a cough that lasted a month. | 23:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | you just gave me so much hope | 23:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | I knew it was a fairytale | 23:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | lol | 23:16 |
| summonner | 3RD was an afternoon flu but runny nose for a week, more jelly phlegm, 4TH was cough, sneeze, tiny bit of jelly. | 23:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's really good for 52 and a single comorbidity | 23:17 |
| summonner | last one last week was a headache and runny nose, tiny bit of jelly, gone after a hot shower and good night's sleep | 23:17 |
| lastshell | summonner you might now your vitamin d levels ? | 23:18 |
| sdfgsdfg | yeah I take it every day, ever since I researched about the studies on D3 | 23:19 |
| summonner | well after the first one, I did lots of research, I have friends in the medical field, they gave me access to documents... Vit D was marked as a known factor highlighted between survivors and autopsies but no one knew why | 23:19 |
| sdfgsdfg | so you've been taking D as well ? | 23:20 |
| Tuvix | Folks, don't engage the troll. | 23:20 |
| summonner | I've boosted mine above 3,000 IU since the first sickness | 23:20 |
| sdfgsdfg | I don't think he's trolling.. | 23:20 |
| summonner | sorry, not trying to troll | 23:20 |
| summonner | anyway, that's my story | 23:21 |
| summonner | everyone of my family and friends back home in OZ that I know has taken the vaxx - quite a few because they were forced to by their employers or colleges - or they just wanted to get it over and done with | 23:22 |
| summonner | me, I've had it, so I don't see the need | 23:22 |
| sdfgsdfg | yes natural immunity is not recognized in australia | 23:24 |
| xx | I don't think I can recognize Dr Lin as an expert anymore | 23:25 |
| xx | he only *just now* found out that there are N95s that have a good fit, are manufactured well and tested to actually work? | 23:26 |
| xx | he hasn't been wearing such masks for the last 2 years? | 23:26 |
| Tuvix | Lots in the medical profession use employer-supplied bulk-purchased PPE on the job. | 23:26 |
| xx | well I'd expect someone that does research to... actually research this as well... | 23:27 |
| xx | as many have actually done | 23:27 |
| xx | but this Dr Lin has not | 23:27 |
| summonner | I saw the funniest video (I don't have the link) of some of the outfits which people have made, for when they go food shopping | 23:27 |
| Tuvix | It's a big field, but I think his point is that these are available to the public. You're on IRC a lot but I bet there's stuff about IRC you don't know too, perhaps even that might chance advice you give others here if you had done your reserach too. | 23:27 |
| Tuvix | change* | 23:28 |
| Tuvix | It also comes at a time when some agencies (eg: the US CDC) is not even mentioning mask quality in their high-level guidance, so there is some value to discussing what is the appropriate mask to be using if it could mean better masks in high-spread places considering mask requirements as a component to limit the incipient surge. | 23:30 |
| xx | but they *have* been including that info, for e.g. the flu seasons in the years before corona | 23:30 |
| xx | they just conveniently did not include this info for corona | 23:30 |
| Tuvix | Right, but did you see the CDC Directors discussion about why that was the messaging this past week? | 23:31 |
| xx | CDC had guidelines for respirators in flu seasons | 23:31 |
| summonner | I saw Alysa Milano wearing a crocheted mask | 23:31 |
| summonner | but there are standards, right? | 23:32 |
| summonner | like washing it etc yes? | 23:32 |
| xx | look, another guy in my company did a short calculation that we could have produced 1.2B respirators *and* distributed them to every american in 8 months, so that every american had 4 respirators on rotation. Given that the gov agencies haven't chosen to do that makes me believe that they don't *want* to fix this. | 23:32 |
| Tuvix | The Americans not masking where they're asked to now are unwilling to put on even a less-effective mask, so they're unlikely to follow stricter advice. Arguably, yes, a cloth mask does fairly little even if worn over the mouth and nose. It's perhaps "mildly valuable" at best at source control. | 23:32 |
| xx | and by *we* I mean our company using our suppliers and manufacturers | 23:33 |
| xx | and we're a small fry | 23:33 |
| Tuvix | xx: Again, you miss the point. Did you see the reason the CDC Director gave? You don't ahve to have agreed with it, but if you haven't seen the rasoning, it's very silly of you to argue against a point you don't even yet know. | 23:33 |
| Tuvix | You do this, often, here. | 23:33 |
| Tuvix | You like to pretend you're so much better than the rest of us and have it all figured out. I've asked you a question that will have a purpose very soon, if you can be bothered to step down off that high horse of yours for just a moment and answser it. | 23:33 |
| Tuvix | So, can we try agin? | 23:33 |
| Tuvix | < Tuvix> Right, but did you see the CDC Directors discussion about why that was the messaging this past week? | 23:34 |
| Tuvix | xx: Did you? Do you know what she *specifically* said about the rason higher-quality masks were not listed as a talking point in that address of the recently updated guidance? | 23:34 |
| xx | I didn't see it because I stopped following CDC stuff ages ago | 23:34 |
| xx | they don't work in the interest of the public | 23:35 |
| Tuvix | OK, this is very relevant to your little rant above. Let me explain… | 23:35 |
| xx | and yes, I, together with many of my peers, do have this stuff figured out better than most governments and their agencies | 23:36 |
| xx | because unlike them, we're paid based on results, whereas they are paid just because they exist | 23:36 |
| Tuvix | It wouldn't matter if we'd used the DPA to send 10 masks per person to evern resident, legal or not, in the country. That's because people aren't willing to follow the guidelines anyway, and the CDC Dir. made an explicit point of saying the mask quality was not mentioned because having people willing to wear any mask is better than none at all. | 23:36 |
| Tuvix | xx: I'm sure you have a published and peer reviewed report on your firms successes you can link us all to then? | 23:37 |
| lastshell | Is true I live in a red state (most people don't wear a mask indoors even with the mandate inplace) or some wear with not right fit or more like a chin diapper nose and mouth visible | 23:38 |
| Tuvix | A study in a reviewed medical journal perhaps? | 23:38 |
| xx | well I find it a massive failure that bad masks were accepted ever, because now we have people not wanting to wear them because they fog up glasses (good masks don't, but the people don't know that and won't know that now) or it's hard to breathe in them (good masks don't make it any harder to breathe in, but people won't know that now) or it's hard to understand speech due to distortions | 23:38 |
| xx | (again, good masks don't affect it, but people won't know that now) | 23:38 |
| xx | etc. | 23:38 |
| xx | basically if they pushed for good masks for the start, then even adherence would be better | 23:38 |
| xx | but now people will refuse to wear masks because their first experience with masks was so bad | 23:38 |
| xx | and the CDC did not ever even consider this point | 23:39 |
| xx | because they are clueless | 23:39 |
| Tuvix | So, you don't have any study do this and just are ranting some more. But your "team" has this all figured out. Guess you, uh, forgot to share this great success with the rest of the US. | 23:39 |
| summonner | well, most masks just deflect it into the eyes anyway if it's in an airborne particulate | 23:39 |
| lastshell | omicron is possible airbone but delta/gamma was droplets afik (I could be wrong) | 23:40 |
| Tuvix | summonner: Incorrect. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337 | 23:40 |
| xx | Tuvix: the success has been shared over the past 40 years, because these masks are not a new thing | 23:40 |
| summonner | heh didn't this thing escape from a Level 4 Bio-lab? Was that agreed upon? Or it's still up in the air? | 23:41 |
| summonner | oops pun unintended | 23:41 |
| xx | like, everyone who deals with dust, fungal spores, metal filings, and all the other nonsense we have in our shipping containers has always had to wear a mask | 23:41 |
| xx | and you bet they made complaints when masks caused trouble such as fogging up glasses or being hard to understand when wearing them | 23:42 |
| Tuvix | Sure, but the public won't accept that. I went shopping yesterday and 80% (ballpark estimate) refuse to wear any mask, including even a basic cloth one. | 23:42 |
| lastshell | if the glass are foggy is becasue are not sealed properly (masks) | 23:42 |
| Tuvix | If they refuse to wear that, your firm shipping them free N95 or bettter masks won't matter. They won't wear those either. | 23:42 |
| xx | so better masks were purchased (or discussions with manufacturer were made to customize/improve them) and adherence went up, complains became nonexistent | 23:42 |
| xx | and this was in the time before youtube was even a thing, and we had company videos on how to check masks are properly sealed | 23:43 |
| xx | and we also had those smelly things available to test them too during training | 23:44 |
| xx | *all* of that could have been done by the CDC, but wasn't | 23:44 |
| Tuvix | For the general public? Nonsense. | 23:44 |
| summonner | xx did you do testing on how long you could keep it on before you were breathing in your own yuckkie? | 23:44 |
| oerheks | We Dutchies are superspreaders in Kirchberg in Tirol https://www.ed.nl/binnenland/live-cluster-rond-nederlandse-skileraren-breidt-zich-uit-meer-dan-100-miljoen-besmettingen-in-europa~af6ed968/ | 23:45 |
| summonner | I read it's 20 mins before the moisture begins forming enough that you're starting to rebreathe particles | 23:45 |
| xx | summonner: no such thing as your own yuckkie, but those tests were done but I don't know the numbers. Overall nobody had a problem wearing them the whole shift, with some breaks, and in some cases necessary replacements if they got wet (due to environment) | 23:46 |
| xx | like, any industrial company has known all of this, and all the manufacturers did studies and published them, yet the CDC refuses to acknowledge that this prior body of evidence exists | 23:46 |
| summonner | okay I guess better quality material than the leopard-print cloth mask I wear | 23:46 |
| xx | instead they do handwavy nonsense like "public won't wear them, please don't shut us down, we matter!" | 23:47 |
| xx | if a gov agency is afraid of giving unpopular advice/guidelines/rules/laws, then it indicates a failure in the system | 23:48 |
| summonner | well I hope your company does well xx | 23:48 |
| Tuvix | The slightly more rural county north of me has all kinds of advice. None of it is followed by businesses. | 23:49 |
| Tuvix | It's all "gudance" becuase there's zero ability to enforce it, not unless they sent in police and backed it up with National Guard troops for support. | 23:49 |
| Tuvix | guidance* | 23:50 |
| Tuvix | I don't see how that's any more effective. | 23:50 |
| Tuvix | The guidance, not the troops. arguably troops would be hugely effective, and wildly unpopular. | 23:50 |
| xx | I'd prefer to live in a world where gov agencies are ruled by science, their guidance can be trusted and will be respected by the people - and if not, then be enforced by other parts of the gov | 23:51 |
| LjL | Tuvix, army was largely manning the vaccine centers here, at least some of them :P | 23:51 |
| LjL | was/is | 23:51 |
| xx | LjL: same in a few places I visited, it helps make things run smooth | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): @thehowie Important bellwether. Most recent New York State data: vaccine effectiveness 94% vs hospitalization coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-break… pic.twitter.com/LIqFRCUth1 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1477399787099996164 | 23:52 |
| Tuvix | The county here is (and has been, for over 6 months now) continuing to have a "staying safe in your community" guidance that, among other things, asks residents to: "People who are vaccinated or unvaccinated and live in an area of substantial or high spread of disease should wear a mask indoors in public." | 23:52 |
| LjL | i didn't realize i had to get a ticket showing me the time i had to wait until my 15 minutes were over | 23:52 |
| Tuvix | I went shopping for food & 31-Dec supplies yesterday; I'd estimate 80% of the customers were not masked. | 23:52 |
| LjL | and this young alpini woman was like "WHERE ARE YOU GOING?! get this! and wait 15 minutes! not a second before! i'll be watching!" | 23:52 |
| Tuvix | "Guidnace" does nothing to those who don't want to follow it. | 23:52 |
| LjL | "o-ok" | 23:52 |
| LjL | (she was chuckling though, not real angry) | 23:53 |
| summonner | i asked a few people about this, I think the consensus was for people who were at risk, they've had enough time to get their house in order | 23:53 |
| Tuvix | LjL: The initial doses I got here were also run by a mass-vax clinic they set up in an unused college arena, a joint effort by local healthcare, state health, and the country's National Guard, complete with members in uniform helping direct and get paperwork filed. | 23:53 |
| summonner | people have "done enough" to help their fellow man | 23:54 |
| Tuvix | That clinic was _very_ well run. | 23:54 |
| LjL | Tuvix, the one i went to also seemed quite well run the first time. for the booster not so much, but that time i think there was no military. maybe there's a connection... | 23:56 |
| LjL | %wik Alpini | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The Alpini are the Italian Army's specialist mountain infantry. Part of the army's infantry corps, the speciality distinguished itself in combat during World War I and World War II. Currently the active Alpini units are organized in two operational brigades, which are subordinated to the Alpine Troops [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpini | 23:56 |
| Tuvix | Yea, boosters here were all just via local clinics and similar. My "main" healthcare clinic system was backlogged 2 weeks, but I got in with just a 1-week delay at a generic pharmacy (plus general goods store) locally. | 23:56 |
| xx | Like, I fully respect that some people are uncomfortable with military presense, and I respect that people should be free to question laws and so on, however I don't accept that it is an actual slippery slope if police/military presence was enforcing mask mandates. | 23:56 |
| Tuvix | They'd just opened up boosters to 16&17 year olds too, so I guess lots of bookings were full. | 23:56 |
| LjL | i think pharmacies provides some vaccines here but mostly a very limited numbers and it's mostly the large centers doing it | 23:57 |
| LjL | xx, considering things police do quite arbitrarily in America, i'd argue the slope has already been slipped on | 23:57 |
| Tuvix | That might be true elsewhere now in the US; this region doesn't really have those kinds of mass-events anymore, largely due to demand. Omicron's wave and the newly eligible for boosters are what I think caused the 1 to 2 week delay in appointments here. | 23:58 |
| LjL | mask mandate enforcement couldn't do much worse... probably | 23:58 |
| xx | LjL: you're right that the police situation in USA is a bit... unfortunate at times | 23:58 |
| Tuvix | And by that I mean due to the _lack_ of demand, omicron & booster rush notwithstanding. | 23:58 |
| LjL | i think there's some pretty large demand for the booster here. at least when i went it took 1h30 and there was a ton of people (i wasn't very happy about that) | 23:58 |
| LjL | but, of course, the ones who never wanted to get the first 2 doses won't get the booster, and among those who did get the first two, you can only lose some, with each booster, hardly gain some | 23:59 |
| LjL | (unless you make it mandatory) | 23:59 |
| lastshell | hi LjL in Israel they are going to rollout the 4th shot | 23:59 |
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