| LjL | It's basically, since we don't have tests, it's not the government's fault for not making sure we have enough tests, it's our fault for using them | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| de-facto | on Nov 24th it was given its name | 00:01 |
| de-facto | on Nov 26th it was given the status VoC by WHO, so lets say the clock for the manufacturers to create an updated vaccine is ticking since then | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Quebec premier announces end to curfew Monday, back-to-school plan → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3bwjr/quebec_premier_announces_end_to_curfew_monday/ | 00:03 |
| de-facto | exactly 7 weeks ago, so where is our updated vaccine? | 00:03 |
| oerheks | Pfizer says March | 00:06 |
| oerheks | https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant | 00:06 |
| de-facto | so basically probably April until it becomes available i assume | 00:07 |
| de-facto | 4 months thats WAY too slow | 00:07 |
| de-facto | countries are spiking now with Omicron, 6-7 weeks after it was declared VoC, hence if we would need at least 2 weeks after vaccination to create antibodies, there is no more than 4 weeks to update s-protein signature in vaccines | 00:10 |
| de-facto | that would assume instant vaccination, but that also takes time | 00:11 |
| Al2O3 | oerheks: not sure about united in states, its been rightfully divided since inception. | 00:11 |
| de-facto | hence my statement that it would have to be days not months to update the vaccine signatures | 00:11 |
| de-facto | maybe if there were more travel restrictions into place we would have had a few more weeks | 00:12 |
| de-facto | *in place | 00:12 |
| Al2O3 | does anyone have cliff notes for this channel :) | 00:14 |
| de-facto | cliff notes? | 00:14 |
| de-facto | if you mean logs look at the title | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Brazil: +96311 cases since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +34377 cases, +15 deaths since 14 hours ago | 00:17 |
| de-facto | also LjL compiled a lot of really useful resources, the github pages, the zotero searchable literature index etc | 00:27 |
| de-facto | probably half of EU will get infected with Omicron in the coming weeks | 00:30 |
| de-facto | at least potentially | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: How a birthday party exposed Hong Kong officials to the harsh reality of zero-Covid → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3ch4v/how_a_birthday_party_exposed_hong_kong_officials/ | 00:31 |
| gry | TIL: Hong Kong has 7.5 million people | 00:33 |
| de-facto | the good thing may be that many people in EU recently got offered a booster, so for those that took it the probability for severe progressions will be significantly lower | 00:34 |
| Al2O3 | is that a known fact for this booster? | 00:35 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/preliminary-data-indicate-covid-19-vaccines-remain-effective-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ema.europa.eu: Preliminary data indicate COVID-19 vaccines remain effective against severe disease and hospitalisation caused by the Omicron variant | European Medicines Agency | 00:38 |
| RedDawn | hi everyone | 00:39 |
| RedDawn | how are you feeling? | 00:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf | 00:40 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From assets.publishing.service.gov.uk: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation (UKHSA) | 00:40 |
| finely[m] | There are a lot of neurological conditions we don't understand. You'd have to assume COVID will cause something down the track for a unlucky percentage of those that catch it. | 00:41 |
| finely[m] | https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/a-very-common-virus-may-be-the-trigger-for-multiple-sclerosis/ | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: D.C. Region Could Reach Peak In COVID Cases As Soon As Next Week, Health Experts Say → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3cqv0/dc_region_could_reach_peak_in_covid_cases_as_soon/ | 00:41 |
| de-facto | "In this analysis, the risk of hospitalisation is lower for Omicron cases after 2 and 3 doses of vaccine, with an 81% (77 to 85%) reduction in the risk of hospitalisation after 3 doses compared to unvaccinated Omicron cases. " | 00:41 |
| de-facto | so that means preventing 4 out of each 5 hospitalizations | 00:42 |
| de-facto | sounds quite effective to me | 00:43 |
| de-facto | btw the technical briefings from UK are really informative | 00:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings <-- worth keeping an eye upon | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.gov.uk: Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 variants: technical briefings - GOV.UK | 00:48 |
| finely[m] | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-14/poorer-nations-dump-millions-of-close-to-expiry-covid-vaccines/100755832 | 00:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: I read this article a few months ago. But wouldn’t the counter argument be valid again with omicron? → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s3cww6/i_read_this_article_a_few_months_ago_but_wouldnt/ | 00:51 |
| de-facto | "An update on the analysis published last week finds the risk of presentation to emergency care or hospital admission with Omicron was approximately half of that for Delta (Hazard Ratio 0.53, 95% CI: 0.50 to 0.57). The risk of hospital admission from emergency departments with Omicron was approximately one-third of that for Delta (Hazard Ratio 0.33, 95% CI: 0.30 to 0.37)." | 00:52 |
| de-facto | LjL, look at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf this describes vaccine efficacy against Omicron in great detail | 00:58 |
| de-facto | maybe something for zotero? | 00:58 |
| LjL | de-facto, hold on a second... why does that say "This briefing provides an update on previous briefings up to 23 December 2021" but then if i click on "briefings" it takes me here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings where there is nothing from December, only from November, and in particular there isn't the one containing the "famous" figure 7 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/ | 01:08 |
| LjL | system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1042367/technical_briefing-31-10-december-2021.pdf ? and instead there is a figure on AZ where negative efficacy isn't seen? | 01:08 |
| LjL | in fact if i google the url "https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1042367/technical_briefing-31-10-december-2021.pdf" i find *nothing* except the document itself | 01:08 |
| LjL | the timeline of these reports is confusing | 01:11 |
| de-facto | LjL, look at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings | 01:13 |
| LjL | figure 2A of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf is almost identical to figure 7 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1042367/technical_briefing-31-10-december-2021.pdf for BNT, but suddenly the CI for AZ becomes tiny around 0 | 01:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Argentina: +128402 cases, +138 deaths, +198532 tests (64.7% positive) since a day ago — Colombia: +30283 cases, +96 deaths, +109502 tests (27.7% positive) since a day ago — Uruguay: +10640 cases, +6 deaths since 22 hours ago — Tunisia: +6562 cases, +13 deaths, +23813 tests (27.6% positive) since a day ago | 01:13 |
| de-facto | https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1043807/technical-briefing-33.pdf | 01:13 |
| de-facto | "SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England Technical briefing 33 23 December 2021" | 01:15 |
| aruns | Interesting. | 01:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Man says Covid caused his penis to shrink by 4 centimetres, experts say he might be right → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3dmaw/man_says_covid_caused_his_penis_to_shrink_by_4/ | 01:19 |
| de-facto | gosh reddit | 01:20 |
| LjL | ... | 01:20 |
| LjL | apart from reddit | 01:20 |
| LjL | from https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf again | 01:20 |
| LjL | (ugh so many PDF newlines to remove) | 01:21 |
| LjL | One dose of vaccine was associated with a 35% reduced risk of hospitalisation among symptomatic cases with the Omicron variant, 2 doses with a 67% reduction up to 24 weeks after the second dose and a 51% reduced risk 25 or more weeks after the second dose, and a third dose was associated with a 68% reduced risk of hospitalisation. When combined with vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease this was equivalent to vaccine effectiveness against | 01:21 |
| LjL | hospitalisation of 52% after one dose, 72% 2 to 24 weeks after dose 2, 52% 25+ weeks after dose 2 and 88% 2+ weeks after a booster dose. | 01:21 |
| LjL | it's "all brands combined", so who knows AZ vs BNT | 01:22 |
| LjL | but there is presumably still an effectiveness against hospitalization, even though it's just 50%-ish, even when there is no effective against symptomatic infection | 01:22 |
| de-facto | they have a graph for AZ and BNT primary series boosted with mRNA | 01:23 |
| LjL | it's not great but better than nothing. i do wonder why in the one against symptomatic infection they decided to show AZ, BNT and Moderna separately, but not in this one which is arguably what matters the most | 01:23 |
| LjL | that's about symptomatic efficacy...? isn't it the graph i was referring to earlier | 01:23 |
| LjL | figure 2A and 2B | 01:23 |
| LjL | but what i quoted is about hospitalization | 01:24 |
| de-facto | https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf page 11 | 01:24 |
| de-facto | yes | 01:24 |
| de-facto | symptomatic yes | 01:25 |
| de-facto | hospitalizations are table 5+6 but no brands there | 01:25 |
| LjL | that's what i'm saying | 01:26 |
| de-facto | this is probably the most detailed and accurate info we got so far about VE against Omicron endpoints | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: WHO recommends baricitinib and sotrovimab to treat patients: The Janus kinase (JAK) inhibitor baricitinib, which is also used to treat rheumatoid arthritis, is strongly recommended for patients with severe or critical covid-19 in combination with... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o97.short | 01:29 |
| oerheks | baricitinib and sotrovimab .. bamivortos dna biniticirab | 01:32 |
| LjL | i, what | 01:33 |
| LjL | the names are complicated enough without further mangling! | 01:33 |
| LjL | but i do hope sotrovimab is used together with *something else* | 01:33 |
| LjL | because using it alone is just a recipe for escape | 01:33 |
| de-facto | those describe molecules and their function hence the weird naming | 01:37 |
| de-facto | https://www.ashp.org/-/media/assets/pharmacy-practice/resource-centers/preceptor-toolkit/Biologics-and-Related-Drugs---Definitions-Naming-and-Examples.pdf | 01:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from ##covid-19 Zotero group: Technical briefing: Update on hospitalisation and vaccine effectiveness for Omicron VOC-21NOV-01 (B.1.1.529): Type Journal Article Pages 17 Library Catalog Zotero Language en Abstract This report has been published to share the detailed variant surveillance analyses which contribute [... want %more?] → https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/IE2A8S38 | 01:38 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_nomenclature | 01:40 |
| de-facto | etc | 01:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from ##covid-19 Zotero group: A living WHO guideline on drugs for covid-19: Type Journal Article Author Arnav Agarwal Author Bram Rochwerg Author François Lamontagne Author Reed AC Siemieniuk Author Thomas Agoritsas Author Lisa Askie Author Lyubov Lytvyn Author Yee-Sin Leo Author Helen Macdonald Author Linan [... want %more?] → https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/GGBRAMB3 | 01:57 |
| LjL | de-facto, this ↑ is colorful so i'll understand it better | 01:58 |
| de-facto | oh nice one | 02:02 |
| * mwsd82 is back (gone 05:22:30) | 02:06 | |
| LjL | mwsd82, don't do that please, we can see you're back when you're talking or by doing /whois and you setting yourself away there :P | 02:13 |
| mwsd82 | okay | 02:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Test prudently: by Amy B. Rosenfeld I do not advocate testing for any person vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 unless they display severe symptoms or live with those who for whom vaccines are not yet approved. I understand that testing and isolation are mechanisms to break virus transmission chains and [... want %more?] → https://www.virology.ws/2022/01/13/test-prudently/ | 02:16 |
| ublx | de-facto: seen this? "SARS-CoV-2 Omicron VOC Transmission in Danish Households" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.27.21268278v1.full | 02:33 |
| ublx | seems to be substantially about secondary attack rate | 02:33 |
| ublx | comparison of SAR between delta and omicron, rather | 02:33 |
| de-facto | yeah vaccines seem to work a lot better with Delta | 02:37 |
| lastshell | Bill gates told we need better vaccines: https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/bill-gates-says-covid-19-vaccines-are-missing-two-key-things | 02:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: S. Korea: Daily infections over 4,000 for 3rd day; imported cases hit fresh high → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3fgzl/s_korea_daily_infections_over_4000_for_3rd_day/ | 02:45 |
| de-facto | well before talking about vaccines, how about reinfections? | 02:49 |
| lastshell | I hear if you got delta you can also get omicron | 02:50 |
| lastshell | from this news: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/13/22882619/perspective-glenn-beck-is-battling-covid-19-again-and-its-bringing-out-the-worst-in-his-critics | 02:50 |
| de-facto | if a previous infection could not even prevent reinfection, the vaccines would need to use a very different set of epitopes compared to those that the immune system employs on the wild type pathogen | 02:50 |
| de-facto | so first we would need to know if sterilizing immunity is even a thing with SARS-CoV-2 | 02:51 |
| de-facto | there are good reasons such a thing may not exist at all | 02:51 |
| lastshell | is a little disheartened to know even if you get infected new variant can get you | 02:52 |
| de-facto | then if antigenic drift creates a never ending strain of evasive mutants maybe super long lasting immunity is not even what we should hope for | 02:52 |
| de-facto | yes exactly, but this needs to be understood in detail first in order to evaluate the possibility of longer lasting vaccines | 02:53 |
| de-facto | maybe thats not even possible at all | 02:53 |
| de-facto | there is a reason human coronaviruses are seasonal | 02:55 |
| lastshell | when people spend more time in close counters | 02:55 |
| de-facto | i mean the other ones like 229E, OC43, NL63 and HKU1 | 02:55 |
| lastshell | less airflow circulation | 02:56 |
| de-facto | if i remember correctly they took blood serum that people donated several years ago and evaluated its neutralization capabilities against different generations of those hCoVs | 02:56 |
| de-facto | they have seen that after several years (was it 2-5 or such?) the serum completely lost neutralization ability | 02:56 |
| de-facto | they reinfect people | 02:57 |
| de-facto | updating the immune signature with their current mutant | 02:57 |
| de-facto | so we may see something similar with COVID | 02:58 |
| lastshell | but if the virus constant update there immune signature how do you stop it ? | 02:58 |
| de-facto | i dont think we can stop it other than cut the transmission paths physically | 02:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR Science: Doctors and patients are facing tough choices because of the national blood crisis: The COVID-19 pandemic has contributed to a 62% drop in blood drives at schools and colleges, according to the American Red Cross. → https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072879005/hospitals-in-urgent-need-blood-donations-blood-crisis | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Center for COVID Control pauses national operations for one week → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3g73d/center_for_covid_control_pauses_national/ | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Pfizer expects updated COVID-19 vaccine data for kids under 5 by April → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3ghza/pfizer_expects_updated_covid19_vaccine_data_for/ | 03:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian premier tests positive day after rejecting Covid measures → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3h7mz/canadian_premier_tests_positive_day_after/ | 04:02 |
| st4ck | hello | 04:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID-Hospitalization Numbers Are as Bad as They Look → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3i253/covidhospitalization_numbers_are_as_bad_as_they/ | 04:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Korea raises interest rates to pre-pandemic levels to combat record inflation of 2.5% → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3i5yo/south_korea_raises_interest_rates_to_prepandemic/ | 05:00 |
| LjL | Uh apparently Italy's new "testing is bad and you should feel bad" policy is not Italy's alone... https://www.virology.ws/2022/01/13/test-prudently/ | 05:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: In a pandemic, ignoring science affects everyone. Citizenship education can help ensure that doesn't happen → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3iily/in_a_pandemic_ignoring_science_affects_everyone/ | 05:10 |
| sdfgsdfg | de-facto omicron appeared in the middle of summer in australia and peak is even worse than UK and US when you compare the sick ratio | 06:08 |
| sdfgsdfg | I mean this thing being seasonal.... there must be other cycles too. Maybe it's not seasonal | 06:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | that, or it likes both summer and winter solstice | 06:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer says its vaccine targeting Omicron will be ready in March → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3jtsy/pfizer_says_its_vaccine_targeting_omicron_will_be/ | 06:16 |
| user | its not seasonal | 06:35 |
| sdfgsdfg | I'm sure de-facto was referring to probably flu, and the overall pattern of sicknesses coinciding with winter in the history of human viruses - because we never had such a high level of commute between nations before 2000 | 06:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: A Modest Proposal: Schools Must Open With Untested, Unmasked, Unvaccinated Children: Kids don’t need Covid-19 vaccines to return to school and the downsides of masking young students are real The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/a-modest-proposal-2/ | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: COVID-19 risks motivating more people to get weight loss surgeries → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3l7sm/covid19_risks_motivating_more_people_to_get/ | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Marooned: Risk of catching Omicron abroad delays airline recovery → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3lffe/marooned_risk_of_catching_omicron_abroad_delays/ | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): COVID Hospitalizations Rising in Kids Too Young for Vaccine → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 08:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Weed may prevent COVID → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3mh9h/weed_may_prevent_covid/ | 08:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 14, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3mz6d/daily_discussion_thread_january_14_2022/ | 09:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | djokovic deported finally (check) | 09:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Rotarix, rotavirus vaccine, live, Immunization;Rotavirus Infections, Date of authorisation: 21/02/2006, Revision: 39, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/rotarix | 09:36 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🌐 Gempa bumi! Earthquake! 6.0 Mb tremor, registered by alomax,scevent, with 9 reports, 9 early, occurred 14 minutes ago (09:06:37 UTC), during daytime, Java, Indonesia (-7.74, 107.24), ↓203 km likely felt 270 km away (in Jakarta…) by 25.5 million people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1606968356 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1610355877 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1620143713 (quakesearch.geonet.org.nz) | 10:21 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: UK economy closed pandemic gap in November: Fresh data suggests the country was in decent shape when the Omicron wave hit. → https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-economy-closed-pandemic-gap-in-november/ | 10:23 |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Gempa bumi! Earthquake! 6.3 Mwp tremor, registered by alomax,early,scevent, with 9 reports, 2 early, occurred 18 minutes ago (09:05:41 UTC), during daytime, Java, Indonesia (-7.27, 106.18) ± 87 km, ↓10 km likely felt 290 km away (in Jakarta…) by 25.1 million people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1610355877 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1606968356 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1610356455 (webservices.ingv.it) | 10:24 | |
| Dredd | <sdfgsdfg> "djokovic deported finally (check..." <- I thought they'd decided to let him in? | 10:31 |
| Dredd | I haven't kept up to date with the djokodrama | 10:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | his visa got cancelled again he is getting deported unless he appeals for a second time | 10:32 |
| Dredd | Didn't the courts rule that he should be allowed in though? | 10:33 |
| aruns | Can anyone help me debunk something one of my colleagues has posted? | 10:35 |
| aruns | https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/ | 10:35 |
| Tuvix | There is literally no information there at all. You can't just put a word like "weird" in quotes and expect people who know how to critically think to believe that. It's very possible whoever wrote that glanced at a chart like this and made assumptions that matched their apparent IQ: https://xkcd.com/2476 | 10:38 |
| Tuvix | aruns: So, going by that comic's chart, isn't it "weird" how people who are right-handed make 90% of mistakes in explaining information? ;) | 10:38 |
| Tuvix | I think I have some actual scientific papers on this subject, let me see. Hopefully your colleague is willing to read a scientific paper that's more than 2 sentences though… | 10:40 |
| Tuvix | aruns: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1 | 10:43 |
| Tuvix | Oh, hang on, that may not have the info I was looking for. | 10:44 |
| aruns | Thanks Tuvix | 10:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Public health is missing crucial data on LGBTQIA+ people. It’s not hard to collect: While there is every reason to believe that LGBTQIA+ people are among the populations that are more vulnerable to Covid-19, we don't know for sure [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/14/public-health-entities-missing-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-data/ | 10:52 |
| Tuvix | aruns: I mean, the lack of ANY data on the reference you provided is a huge red flag. You've been given the web version of a tweet without any reference to actual information. | 10:52 |
| Tuvix | And "cases" doesn't have any significant impact on the outcomes of getting infected; I think that sourthern california study has a bit of what I'm looking for, but I'll let you know if I find a better reference. At any rate you're asking to "debunk" something when there's no actual claim there. Not with any kind of reference to actual verified data. | 10:53 |
| aruns | Thanks Tuvix | 10:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson tests positive for COVID-19 → https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-prime-minister-magdalena-andersson-positive-coronavirus/ | 11:10 |
| Tuvix | Not sure if this is helpful since it only shows the alpha & delta varients, but the charts on p5 (of the full PDF) here are striking in level of Vaccine Effectiveness (VE): https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115481 | 11:12 |
| Tuvix | VE is slightly lower for Omicron, but it's still far better at protecting people. If you want it specific to Scottland, I'd check your government's publicly available data and see if it shows case incidence rates of the hospitalized or dead (ie: "severe outcomes") caused by COVID broken down by vaccination status. | 11:13 |
| Tuvix | I did that for the US specifically, and while that data is currently only avilable through mid-October, the results are obvious: you want to be vaccinated prior to COVID exposure: https://imgur.com/a/Lm9sdzR | 11:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: AP News: ABC News draws fire for editing of CDC director's interview → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3p0ht/ap_news_abc_news_draws_fire_for_editing_of_cdc/ | 11:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Going to Russia for a shot: how are vaccine tours arranged and why do foreigners go to Russia for Sputnik? → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s3p240/going_to_russia_for_a_shot_how_are_vaccine_tours/ | 11:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Wales to reopen nightclubs and allow large crowds at outdoor events → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3r25u/wales_to_reopen_nightclubs_and_allow_large_crowds/ | 13:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron associated with 91% reduction in risk of death compared to Delta, study finds → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3r8sx/omicron_associated_with_91_reduction_in_risk_of/ | 13:47 |
| de-facto[m] | .title https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2022.27.2.2101197?TRACK=RSS | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance | Waning antibody levels after COVID-19 vaccination with mRNA Comirnaty and inactivated CoronaVac vaccines in blood donors, Hong Kong, April 2020 to October 2021 | 13:53 |
| de-facto[m] | %title | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From old.reddit.com: Omicron associated with 91% reduction in risk of death compared to Delta, study finds : Coronavirus | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Swedish PM tests positive for COVID as fourth wave surges → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3rcdl/swedish_pm_tests_positive_for_covid_as_fourth/ | 13:56 |
| Tuvix | Of course, there's still an awful lot of death here in the US. Unless there's a better source of data, the breakdown of who was vacinatd in those detath totals will lag 2 to 3 months, although early reports are that 80%+ in the ICU are unvaccinated, so presumably the deaths are along a similar line. | 13:57 |
| Tuvix | (those near dead are more likely to be in the ICU before that occurs) | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Most hospital patients with Covid-19 have no viral symptoms, review finds (IRELAND) → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3rkz4/most_hospital_patients_with_covid19_have_no_viral/ | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Intrauterine fetal demise in the third trimester of pregnancy associated with mild infection with the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant without protection from vaccination | The Journal of Infectious Diseases → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3rpss/intrauterine_fetal_demise_in_the_third_trimester/ | 14:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron pushes hospitals to the brink in two dozen U.S. states. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3rxf7/omicron_pushes_hospitals_to_the_brink_in_two/ | 14:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Babies in England hospitals with Omicron as a precaution → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59978516 | 14:45 |
| lastshell | Tuvix I don't recall where I read/hear that according to the CDC vaccinated deaths where people with 4 comorbidites | 14:45 |
| Tuvix | The vast majority of those in the ICU and dying who are vaccinated have underlying conditions, yes. | 14:46 |
| Tuvix | And this makes some sense that if you're immune system is already having problems, you'll be more likely to have issues with COVID even with the protections vaccines offer. A family friend here is in stage-4 cancer treatment and unless it improves, he's doing cycles of chemo to try and get improvement. Vaccine or no, COVID could be quite dire for him. | 14:47 |
| Tuvix | your* | 14:47 |
| Tuvix | Granted covid isn't the only risk, but if he gets infected and dies from complications of covid, that's really still a "covid death" even though it was made worse by the cancer and its treatment. | 14:48 |
| Tuvix | This is part of what the metric of 'unexpected deaths' counts, and by some estimates the US may be closer to 1.2-1.5M deaths that we wouldn't have expected in a normal 2-years if not for the pandemic. | 14:48 |
| lastshell | in some fashion unexpected deaths are covid deaths ? | 14:50 |
| de-facto | what about deaths that resulted from people with other diseases not receiving their necessary treatment in time because healthcare capacity was maxed out? | 14:54 |
| lastshell | a true ^ | 14:54 |
| de-facto | such deaths also could have been prevented if infections by SARS-CoV-2 were prevented | 14:55 |
| de-facto | or diseases that could have been prevented if people received their other vaccinations in time (but cant because hospitals are blocked with COVID)? | 14:57 |
| de-facto | there are many second order effects that will reduce life expectancy due to COVID | 14:58 |
| Tuvix | It was just one such example, but a nationally carried news story here some weeks back was a war vet that died of a gallbladder infection (normally a minor issue to treat) because he couldn't get seen in time at the ER. | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Southern US hospitals grapple with staff shortages amid record Covid cases → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3smgu/southern_us_hospitals_grapple_with_staff/ | 15:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Fully Vaccinated Omicron Infection Risk Declines in New York for First Time in Month → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3sy2v/fully_vaccinated_omicron_infection_risk_declines/ | 15:13 |
| de-facto | Press conference today with RKI head Wieler, health minister Lauterbach and Virologist Drosten about the situation in Germany | 15:18 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e7qQZ9029k | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: Corona-Lage mit Lauterbach (SPD), Drosten & Wieler (RKI) | BPK 14. Januar 2022 - YouTube | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Ambirix, hepatitis A (inactivated) and hepatitis B (rDNA) (HAB) vaccine (adsorbed), Hepatitis B;Hepatitis A;Immunization, Date of authorisation: 30/08/2002, Revision: 16, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/ambirix | 15:43 |
| Tuvix | This is from the an FDA brifing document back in October, 2021, but it's relevant for debunking some nonsense about myocarditis if that's useful for anyone here (apparently this myth came up again on a podcast that's known for covid misinformation.) https://www.fda.gov/media/153447/download | 16:10 |
| Tuvix | .title | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | Tuvix: From www.fda.gov: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee October 26, 2021 Meeting Briefing Document- FDA (FDA) | 16:11 |
| Tuvix | Eg: "While benefits of vaccination were highly dependent on COVID-19 incidence, the overall analysis predicted that the numbers of clinically significant COVID-19-related outcomes prevented would clearly outweigh the numbers of vaccine-associated excess myocarditis cases over a range of assumptions for COVID-19 incidence." | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Twinrix Adult, hepatitis A (inactivated) and hepatitis B (rDNA) (HAB) vaccine (adsorbed), Hepatitis B;Hepatitis A;Immunization, Date of authorisation: 19/09/1996, Revision: 22, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/twinrix-adult | 16:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Every California county is at the highest COVID transmission rate: CDC → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3vk75/every_california_county_is_at_the_highest_covid/ | 17:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Friday 14 January 2022 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/s3vtq7/friday_14_january_2022_update/ | 17:20 |
| mrdata | another antivax podcaster dies https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvkjk/anti-vax-podcaster-doug-kuzma-dies-from-covid | 17:27 |
| mrdata | seems like this happens every day, now | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen, COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Revision: 15, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/covid-19-vaccine-janssen | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Prepare for the 'mother of all supply chain stumbles' if Omicron sweeps across Asia and raises the risk of factory shutdowns, analyst warns → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/s3x0o8/prepare_for_the_mother_of_all_supply_chain/ | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Maternal COVID-19 infection increases risks of preterm birth, low birth weight and stillbirth → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/s3x3ke/maternal_covid19_infection_increases_risks_of/ | 18:08 |
| user | mrdata: everyone's got a podcast | 18:09 |
| Tuvix | Another one of the disinformation podcasters (no idea of he's vaccinated himself) was called out by his guest on the bad claim he made. Podcast host actually looked it up on the spot, then realizing he was wrong, decided to attack the information itself asking "where does this information come from" or something equally stupid. | 18:10 |
| Tuvix | I guess if you get caught lying you just throw shade on the verified information itself and spin it as unreliable. Good thing podcasters don't need to believe that airplanes can fly for them to do so I suppose. | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Majority of Polish medical panel quits in protest at government inaction on COVID: Departing members of Medical Council issue scathing statement accusing the government of pandering to COVID deniers and vaccine skeptics. → https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-medical-panel-quits-protest-government-inaction-coronavirus/ | 18:19 |
| lastshell | I should start my own podcast | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: French Dogs on the Trail of Long Covid; Impact of Long Covid on the US Job Market: By David Tuller, DrPH Can Dogs Smell Long Covid? It can be unwise to pay attention to research published on a pre-print [... want %more?] → https://www.virology.ws/2022/01/14/trial-by-error-french-dogs-on-the-trail-of-long-covid-impact-of-long-covid-on-the-us-job-market/ | 18:28 |
| Tuvix | Oh man, that Polish article has a photo caption that reads, "Poland has one of Europe's highest pandemic death tolls in relation to population size" -- and it's not all that much ahead of the US in terms of per-capita death since the pandemic started :\ | 18:30 |
| Tuvix | Meanwhile, we just largely continue on, business-as-usual here, rejecting almost any widespread enforcement of measures that might help change that pace of death. | 18:31 |
| Tuvix | According to JHU, Poland has a pandemic-long 267/100k death toll, and the US has 257.9/100k | 18:32 |
| Tuvix | To put that into ratios, that's a 1 in 375 people (Poland) and 1 in 388 (US) | 18:33 |
| user | Tuvix: or that the earth is warming to point of no return cause of man | 18:41 |
| user | for >age 65 in the US it's 1 in 100 | 18:42 |
| Tuvix | I don't know about now, but the rate of impact to the older population for death at the very least has been decreasing each wave since vaccines came out, while _more_ of the younger age groups are dying compared to earlier waves. And that's really sad since most of those dying are choosing to pass up the possibly life-saving vaccination :\ | 18:43 |
| Tuvix | Presentation of data to back this claim up from the CDC: https://imgur.com/a/Lm9sdzR | 18:43 |
| Tuvix | (we won't get the next update, presumably through mid-November, until about a week from now) | 18:43 |
| Tuvix | Oh, my mistake, wrong link, hang on. | 18:44 |
| Tuvix | Deaths by month, grouped by age range: https://imgur.com/a/5KLFM3I | 18:44 |
| Tuvix | _That_ is everything through the end of 2021. | 18:44 |
| Tuvix | Note in particular how the oldest age groups are doing better, and than the working-age and younger groups are trending worse despite anyone who wnated a vaccine by the summer delta wave being able to get them. My prior link shows the impact of being vaccinated in any given age against death as an outcome. | 18:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Blood Markers of Brain Damage Are Higher Over Short Term in Patients Who Have COVID-19 Than in People Who Have Alzheimer’s Disease → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s3xv05/blood_markers_of_brain_damage_are_higher_over/ | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: UK civil service chief under pressure over new lockdown party claims: Latest revelations include late-2020 leaving drinks for former head of the government unit tasked with drawing up COVID restrictions. → https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-civil-service-simon-case-pressure-cornavirus-lockdown-party-claims/ | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Study: Cannabis compounds prevent coronavirus entering cells → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s3yk6e/study_cannabis_compounds_prevent_coronavirus/ | 19:18 |
| s1gyn | So the CDC website claims there is no evidence that covid can spread via pet fur. But I don't see how fur isn't a good place for droplets to get caught in | 19:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR Science: Fact check: The theory that SARS-CoV-2 is becoming milder: A look at the data that omicron is less severe. What does that mean for the future of SARS-CoV-2 — and the pandemic? → https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/01/14/1072504127/fact-check-the-theory-that-sars-cov-2-is-becoming-milder | 19:28 |
| Tuvix | Surfaces in general seem to be a fairly low-risk method of spread vs. aerosols. In general though it's probably not a bad idea to wash after you've been cuddling or petting your animals prior to touching your face, cooking, etc, and that's not just COVID-specific either. | 19:28 |
| Tuvix | I know my cats get all over the place, and I wouldn't want to be intentionally sticking whatever dark corner of the basement they were in earlier into my eyes or on my cooking surfaces needlessly. | 19:28 |
| Tuvix | s1gyn: did you have a specific concern, like animals in a group setting or something? I wouldn't really worry about indoor pets, including dogs that get walked by those in the home already. | 19:30 |
| Tuvix | We do know animals can get COVID themselves via resporiation, such as in cases of wild deer for example, but that's not related to the fur. | 19:30 |
| s1gyn | Basically if my chihuahua sleeps with my wife in her covid suite upstairs, does the dog need to also be isolated upstairs when she is away from home taking care of her grandfather(who is the one with covid). | 19:31 |
| Tuvix | Oh, I wouldn't worry about fur so much as the probably low-ish chance the dog could actually get infected via aerosol spread and pass that on. | 19:37 |
| LjL | Offloop says Italy's Reff is down to about 1.2 (at least last I looked) from a high of 2.0 or so. But TV just said that Rt is going *up* to 1.56. I *think* they said "up to January 14" so that would be current, although it's possible the calculation is lagged somehow... Any idea what could be the difference? Does Reff vs Rt conceivably make any difference in this case? May the government base it on data that are not simply the case count? | 19:37 |
| Tuvix | The recommendation for COVID-positive people is to avoid unnecessary contact with pets, but I'm not sure how much it'll really matter given Omicron's transmission effectiveness anyway. Maybe sleeping with isn't the best idea for the 5-to-10 days one is most likely contagious after a positive test though. | 19:38 |
| Tuvix | The reality is we don't really have good data on how easily our furry mamals really are, so there's a lot of guesswork and general recommendation on the topic. | 19:38 |
| Tuvix | LjL: I wonder if it's estimated from some of the case or other metrics. This could be the news reading into every daily report what they want for the daily talking points, but there's been claims of "peaking" cases due to a 1 or 2 day lull after a spike, but I read the same charts as just normal daily varience especially after normal weekend reduction vs. weekdays. | 19:40 |
| de-facto | Daily new cases would be N(t) = N(t0) * Rt^((t - t0) / ts) hence Rt(ts) = [ N(t) / N(t0) ]^(ts / (t - t0)) depending on the serial time ts~4d for a new generation of infected, each carrier infecting on average Rt susceptible | 19:41 |
| de-facto | offloop calculates Rt(ts) = Rolling_case_average(t) / Rolling_case_average(t-ts) with ts = 4d, possibly the Italian government may use another ts, some use ts = 5.2d | 19:42 |
| de-facto | each assumed serial time of course results in another numeric value for Rt | 19:43 |
| LjL | Tuvix: yeah it's full of talk of a peak having being reached it. I think it's possible but TV is already celebrating as if taking it for granted. But by saying the Rt is getting higher they'd be doing the opposite... | 19:44 |
| LjL | de-facto: I don't think 4 vs 5 or so could explain the difference between an R that's going definitely up and one that's going definitely down | 19:44 |
| de-facto | reproduction numbers for different serial times can be converted by assuming Rt1 ^ (1/ts1) = Rt2 ^ (1/ts2) hence Rt1 = Rt2 ^ (ts1 / ts2) | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | Sounds like your media is on the same "maybe it's getting better" train, but that may not be true at the same time for larger areas, such as different countries in the EU (or even regions of countries) and certainly isn't uniform here in the US | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | I'm more concerned about the still-rising death rates :\ | 19:46 |
| LjL | Are there methods to calculate it that are dramatically different? | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | As it stands, I think Omicron's death toll is likely to be higher than Delta here | 19:47 |
| de-facto | realistic values would be ts = 5.2d for D514G and Alpha, ts = 4d for Delta and maybe (idk exactly) ts = 3d for Omicron | 19:47 |
| de-facto | surely ts(Omicron) < ts(Delta) | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: News Scan for Jan 14, 2022: Spending on ivermectin for COVID-19 COVID monoclonal antibody combo CWD in Alabama for first time US flu declines slightly Polio in 2 nations → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/01/news-scan-jan-14-2022 | 19:47 |
| de-facto | what i do sometimes when i calculate Rt for a clearly exponential rise is assuming an average Rt can approximate it by minimizing the squared differences for an approximation N(t) = N(t0) Rt^((t-t0)/ts) from the actual discrete case numbers | 19:53 |
| de-facto | the rolling average quotient got the advantage that its time local and also includes a smoothing property depending on the time window for the rolling sum, 7 days would be tbe best low pass property for an assumed weekly periodicity | 19:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Eliminating the FDA’s blood donation ban on men who have sex with men would help ease the U.S. shortage: To turn away blood donors because of their sexual orientation while there is a critical blood shortage during the worst pandemic in a century is [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/14/remove-fda-donation-ban-to-ease-us-blood-shortage/ | 19:57 |
| LjL | de-facto, how high do you think Omicron's R0 is? i just saw a tweet with i think the highest number i've seen claimed so far (says it comes from UAMS but no link, so haven't looked yet) | 20:12 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/brandonhicks/status/1482040315565518851 | 20:12 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 20:12 |
| LjL | "UAMS saying R 17. Wow! For COVID. Don’t be indoors with other people." | 20:13 |
| LjL | meanwhile, not related to COVID and obviously i don't have the ability to evaluate how good the paper is, but, food for thoughts on those who think we should just all get Omicron even when we don't know Long COVID effects and even whether the virus can remain in the body (but we do have hints that it may) | 20:14 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/kearnsneuro/status/1481772805024800769 | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Patrick Kearns (@kearnsneuro): "Phenomenal paper just published in Science persuasively demonstrating that EBV causes most if not all multiple sclerosis. Phenomenal epidemiological design and [...] | 20:14 |
| de-facto | R0 is very hard to predict | 20:19 |
| de-facto | it can be possibly predicted in the very early outbreak numbers when each cluster can be traced down | 20:19 |
| de-facto | but since its per definition the average number of infections each carrier causes in a fully susceptible unaware population it has to be extrapolated, because right now everyone is more or less aware and not fully susceptible | 20:20 |
| de-facto | it also can be predicted by comparing Rt to a variant with an already estimated R0 | 20:21 |
| de-facto | LjL, well lets REALLY hope that this paper is not related to COVID | 20:24 |
| de-facto | if EBV can be re-activated by COVID it may be quite related though | 20:24 |
| LjL | hmmm Twitter is proposing that i follow a "COVID-19: health experts" "topic", which could be interesting for the bot, but i don't know of any way to get a feed from a "topic" https://twitter.com/i/topics/1251670280021225473?pt=1481379934446792704 | 20:25 |
| de-facto | would not be fun to have an MS epidemic from long COVID by EBV reactivation | 20:25 |
| de-facto | or anything like that | 20:25 |
| LjL | :( | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: The Netherlands relaxes coronavirus measures, but restaurants stay shut: 'We hope to reach a situation wherein we no longer need to close sectors which we have just reopened,' says health minister. → https://www.politico.eu/article/the-netherlands-covid-19-coronavirus-omicron-mark-rutte/ | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada's military launches formal proceedings against more than 900 unvaccinated troops → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s40b4b/canadas_military_launches_formal_proceedings/ | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: UK study finds more Omicron hospitalisations in youngest children, but cases mild → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s40ey6/uk_study_finds_more_omicron_hospitalisations_in/ | 20:45 |
| LjL | okay, i was rude (although i'm not sure "you're a liar" is much worse than "your opinion is worthless", but whatever, i shouldn't get to their level), but what the fuck, is everyone just insane in this thread? | 20:52 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/rln_nelson/status/1481091986861932547 | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Rodger L Nelson (@rln_nelson): "Why do you think pre-prints are not peer reviewed? Peer review occurs before submission to a journal as well as after." | nitter | 20:52 |
| LjL | "no a preprint is literally not what it's defined as" okay | 20:52 |
| LjL | look at the responses also | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Police in Dresden opened misdemeanor proceedings against 22 students who were attempting to stop a group of anti-vaccine protesters from demonstrating in front of their university clinic. Police said coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s40jx4/police_in_dresden_opened_misdemeanor_proceedings/ | 20:54 |
| de-facto | :( | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Firm tackles US drug shortages during COVID with Wisconsin plant: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Jan 14, 2022 After battling foreign fluctuations, Nexus Pharmaceuticals bucks convention and builds local. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/01/firm-tackles-us-drug-shortages-during-covid-wisconsin-plant | 21:05 |
| Tuvix | My weekly local county COVID situation report came out today, and over the last 7 days here the positive test rate is 29.2% | 21:06 |
| Arsanerit | Here they're going to prioritise PCR tests to symptomatic people, due to labs hitting their limits. That will increase the positive test rate, of course. | 21:11 |
| Tuvix | They're doing similar things here, although it's not universal, and pharmacies and the like may have more ability to test people (at least with antigen, and maybe also PCR if capacity allows) but hospitals and test sites associated with hospital systems are being more careful to reserve PCR tests for patients whose treatment outcomes depend on that. | 21:13 |
| Tuvix | I basically don't go anywhere, although probably should consider a test before visiting family sometime either this month or early Feb. | 21:13 |
| Tuvix | ie: to be able to put off the travel since it's not time-sensitive if I am positive. | 21:14 |
| Tuvix | It's within 200km drive, but still no point in being part of the problem spreading this. | 21:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Physicians call out Streaming platform over John Regun spreading ‘false and societally harmful’ covid-19 claims → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s413md/physicians_call_out_streaming_platform_over_john/ | 21:14 |
| lastshell | I will do a covid test this weekend just to see if now is out of my system | 21:14 |
| lastshell | even the amazon covid test at home take time to arrive | 21:15 |
| Arsanerit | I don't go anywhere much and when I do I keep distance & masks, but with my booster I consider the risk of getting seriously sick upon infection quite small. | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Omicron thwarts some of the world’s most-used COVID vaccines → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s41bf4/omicron_thwarts_some_of_the_worlds_mostused_covid/ | 21:24 |
| LjL | here TV is starting to say we're "testing too much" and kind of already talking like people should feel guilty for getting tested :\ | 21:31 |
| LjL | i'm kind of out of energy to even feel appropriately outraged | 21:31 |
| Tuvix | It's a common refrain when tests are in limited supply, in part because they're seeing medical professionals ration and continuing to parrot what they're hearing is "the norm" due to supply issues. | 21:32 |
| Tuvix | It shouldn't be an issue, but yet here we are 2 years in without a good ability to dynamically react with 7 week lead time now since Omicron was announced. | 21:33 |
| Arsanerit | it seems credible that test capacity is starting to run out? | 21:33 |
| Tuvix | I mean, labs can only process so much, and test kits for things like at-home antigen tests can only be produced and shipped so fast. | 21:33 |
| LjL | Tuvix, it's just as backwards as the original "don't use masks, you're bad if you use mask" refrain was. totally counterproductive. if you can't secure a supply, don't make it people's fault for having legitimate demand... | 21:38 |
| LjL | and now it's been two years, and we were expecting the winter wave, and we were warned of Omicron before it came | 21:38 |
| LjL | so i don't even see an excuse for not having enough tests stocked | 21:38 |
| LjL | it's irritating on its own, and just becomes maddening when they try to turn the tables making it "our" fault | 21:39 |
| Tuvix | Yup, and should we see another VoC emerge, it'll be the same thing again, probably fueld by all the "it's so mild" and "this is the last step before endemicity". We certainly could see reduced impact once the worst Omicron is finally past, but that's not the only probably future we may see. | 21:40 |
| Tuvix | fueled* | 21:40 |
| Tuvix | probable*. Time for afternoon tea I think with all these mistakes! | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: U.S. FDA Approves Pfizer’s CIBINQO® (abrocitinib) for Adults with Moderate-to-Severe Atopic Dermatitis: Anonymous (not verified) Fri, 01/14/2022 - 15:30 Friday, January 14, 2022 - 03:30pm CIBINQO is a once-daily oral treatment with proven [... want %more?] → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/us-fda-approves-pfizers-cibinqor-abrocitinib-adults | 21:43 |
| de-facto | its the government that got the task to organize enough testing capacity *in advance* according to the models presented to them. its not the fault of the citizen if there is not enough testing capacity | 21:45 |
| lastshell | well kind of guilty the citizens to trust the goverment :P | 21:46 |
| s1gyn | THe whole "dont use masks" thing they did at first is a big part of what fuels the anti-maskerism | 21:48 |
| Tuvix | And if that wasn't bad enough, some politicians made it an unnecessary political issue on top of that. | 21:52 |
| Arsanerit | I don't know how to interpret the numbers anymore. Many people are vaccinated, boostered, or have had previous infections. It seems not many people infected with omicron are getting sick. Should we be counting sick people rather than infected people? | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Omicron Concerns Rise in China as the Olympics Approach: Return of the Pandemic? | 10JAN22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/s42a17/omicron_concerns_rise_in_china_as_the_olympics/ | 21:53 |
| Arsanerit | Is the number of sick people even reported? | 21:53 |
| Tuvix | Arsanerit: I'd look more at the severe outcomes. Here's a graph for US data I've used a lot since you can see the spike in cases, but you're right, cases alone may not be so bad if it doesn't stress hospitals, ICUs, and kill people. But notice that Omicron, at least in the US, *is* killing lots of people: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases_7daydeathsper100k | 21:54 |
| de-facto | .title https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf <-- Arsanerit this one contains pretty interesting stats about Omicron and vaccinations | 21:54 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From assets.publishing.service.gov.uk: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation (UKHSA) | 21:54 |
| Tuvix | People in the hospital who also have COVID is reported, but some of that number now also includes people with mild cases who just happened to have COVID but were admitted for other primary reasons (like a sprained ankle.) However, when ICU use plus hospital capacity is on the rise overall, that's a bad sign, especially when it becomes a functional problem. | 21:55 |
| Tuvix | I'm concerned that if the death rate in the US keeps rising, we'll not only outpace the daily death rate we saw with Delta, but continue to stress hospitals and potentially see a similar and shockingly slow reduction of that death rate. | 21:56 |
| Tuvix | And the UK's NHS isn't doing so well either, so it's not like this is a problem limited to a specific modern country. | 21:57 |
| Tuvix | There are enough unvaccinated (who are the majority of the seriously ill from COVID) and enough raw case numbers to make this wave bad. It was going to be bad anyway, but if we had 9 in 10 of the currently unvaccinated with some protection, it'd be a lot better. | 21:57 |
| Arsanerit | Tuvix: looks like death rate is still lower than 1st, 3rd, or 4th peak? | 21:58 |
| Arsanerit | Spain has 90% vaccination rate but seems to still need quite some restrictions :( | 21:59 |
| oerheks | Less deaths, but the damage that is done.. we will know in one year or so. | 21:59 |
| Tuvix | Depending on where the death rate peaks at and for how long, here in the states we could possibly see as many or possibly even more die from Omicron until whatever the leveling-out rate is. | 22:00 |
| Tuvix | Also concerning with the US CDC data is that we never really "recovered" from Delta. Not only was the reduction in daily death rates weak compared to last winter's wave, but we never got back to pre-delta levels of fatal cases. | 22:00 |
| Arsanerit | slowing down the wave makes sense to avoid overloading hospitals, but won't slowing down the wave otherwise just spread the same number of cases over a longer time? | 22:00 |
| Tuvix | In fact, it averaged out to a somewhat flat ~2.25/100k death rate, while back in July the US saw a much less dire 0.5/100k at the lowest. | 22:01 |
| Tuvix | Arsanerit: Sort of, but that allows for a few things. 1) less stress on hospitals, because people will die due to a result of lack of service, slow service, etc. 2) slowing it down means those who are getting their 1st vaccinations may have some protection they wouldn't otherwise. 3) mitigations to slow the spread also reduce transmission and reduce viral load for those infected who may end up with a | 22:02 |
| Tuvix | weaker infection as a result. | 22:02 |
| Tuvix | This is why "going out to catch COVID" is still a really bad idea. | 22:02 |
| Tuvix | Not to mention if you get infected on purpose, you can now spread it to someone else, and they may not be able to handle it as well. | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Omicron could make booster doses counterproductive, EMA suggests | 14JAN22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/s42ifi/omicron_could_make_booster_doses/ | 22:03 |
| Arsanerit | I'm not going out to catch covid, but I wonder if messages that "it's going to be very difficult to avoid catching the virus in the next months" may reduce public support for restrictions ("why bother if we can't stop it anyway?"). | 22:03 |
| Arsanerit | If I'm going to catch it anyway, isn't it better to catch it 2 weeks after my booster than 3 months after it? | 22:04 |
| Arsanerit | Not saying that I think that way, but people might? | 22:04 |
| Tuvix | Up to 20 weeks seems to be the cutoff where prior vaccine-induced immunity wanes, so 3 months is still reasonably within similar levels of protection. But again, lets say you did drop your guard (and/or go out to get it, similar effect here), catch COVID, but have serious complications despite your lack of risk factors. Now you need hospital services who are already not able to handle existing loads. | 22:05 |
| oerheks | in NL; as of 15 jan, "with a booster shot, no more quarantine after contact" | 22:06 |
| oerheks | but horeca stays closed. | 22:06 |
| Tuvix | Public messaging is tough though; if you ask people to do too much like stay at home whenever possible and wear good quality masks, many won't becuse they're just sick of it. | 22:06 |
| de-facto | same in DE, not really helpful with reducing reproduction | 22:06 |
| de-facto | boosted still can get infected and shed | 22:07 |
| Arsanerit | Why do boostered people not need to quarantine? | 22:07 |
| de-facto | will have a mild progression though | 22:07 |
| oerheks | Indeed, still this 'mild' virus worries me more and more. | 22:07 |
| de-facto | i guess to avoid closing down infrastructure due to not enough personnel | 22:08 |
| Tuvix | It should, yea. We still don't really understand the long-term impacts of getting COVID, and the still largely-unexplained nurological changes are not a good sign. But again, vaccination+boosting, masking, and some common sense goes a long way to helping so there's no need for outright panic. | 22:08 |
| oerheks | True, still employers are not allowed to ask for vaccination proof. | 22:08 |
| oerheks | .. only customers :-D | 22:08 |
| Tuvix | Where is that? | 22:09 |
| oerheks | Nl, netherlands | 22:09 |
| de-facto | here if i go shopping for non-food i need to show vaccination status and my ID | 22:09 |
| de-facto | otherwise i wont be allowed to enter stores | 22:09 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: but do employees need to show the same? | 22:09 |
| Tuvix | Gotcha. Here in the US employers can largely do what they want, but many only do literally the bare minimum becuase they don't want employees quitting or customers to stop showing up. | 22:09 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, i do not know that | 22:10 |
| s1gyn | de-facto: do they record who you are when they see your ID? | 22:10 |
| gry | They asked vaccination status in December, but then hell went loose, people made a petition, and the hell un-loosened itself to require QR code sign-in again; this time, however, vaccination status is not checked anymore. | 22:10 |
| Tuvix | Some local jurisditictions like states or local cities have more rules, but where I am there's basically no requirement to do anything. No masks, no vaccination, and you don't even need to require sick staff to let contacts know. | 22:10 |
| gry | In Sydney. | 22:10 |
| Arsanerit | My unvaccinated colleague has finally moved mostly into home-office since the workplace became mandatory to be vaccinated or tested. | 22:10 |
| de-facto | s1gyn, they do scan the vaccination QR code with an app (to verify its validity) and then check with the ID that the cert is indeed mine | 22:11 |
| Arsanerit | When we are sick with covid, we are required to tell our manager, but we are merely encouraged to tell our direct colleagues, and the manager cannot tell our colleagues. | 22:11 |
| de-facto | they dont make notes though (possibly could with the app i guess, but the default apps dont offer that functionality) | 22:11 |
| Arsanerit | s1gyn: they aren't allowed to record who I am when they see my ID | 22:12 |
| Arsanerit | s1gyn: by GDPR, private companies need explicit consent for storing and handling personal data, and they can only store and handle it for a specific purpose | 22:12 |
| de-facto | they just check if the valid cert is the same name and date of birth as in the ID and the photo of the ID matches | 22:12 |
| Arsanerit | The government does not need such explicit consent though, the law allows certain branches of the government to handle personal data without consent, but still for specific purposes. | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Jakarta Prioritizes Booster Shots for the Elderly and Vulnerable Group | 13JAN22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/s42l2g/jakarta_prioritizes_booster_shots_for_the_elderly/ | 22:13 |
| s1gyn | Well I mean I assume the cert is stored on some government database and it could record every time it's checked and who checked it (what store) | 22:13 |
| Arsanerit | s1gyn: No, there is no government database in Germany. | 22:13 |
| Arsanerit | At least no centralised one. | 22:14 |
| de-facto | no its a signature that is done by a private (secret) key and the app just uses the associated public key to verify the signature of the cert | 22:14 |
| de-facto | PKI can be done locally without network connection | 22:14 |
| Arsanerit | There is an alternate app called "Luca" that is unsafe and non-private. I don't use it, and I don't visit establishments that require it. There has been at least one report of police abuse of Luca data already. | 22:14 |
| Arsanerit | And earlier there were those lists in which everyone would write their name and details on the same sheet of paper; such lists are not legal either, if contact data is taken on paper each group must get its own | 22:15 |
| Arsanerit | s/is taken/are taken | 22:15 |
| Arsanerit | I've only once been to a vaccinated-only place though (outdoor store) | 22:16 |
| oerheks | This R number, in nl R=1,42 .. what does this mean, per day or week ? | 22:18 |
| de-facto | it means how many infections originate from each carrier per generation of infected | 22:19 |
| de-facto | per serial time (average time for a new generation of infected) | 22:19 |
| Arsanerit | I think the R number is an estimate for the instantaneous value and not average over any time period? | 22:19 |
| de-facto | e.g. 100 carriers infect 142 susceptible in the generation time of e.g. 4 days | 22:20 |
| de-facto | Daily new infections N(t) = N(t0) * R ^ ((t-t0) / ts) with ((t-t0) / ts) being the number of generations | 22:21 |
| de-facto | the serial time ts is usually something like ts=4 days or ts=5.2 days hence R always has to be stated together with the serial time | 22:22 |
| oerheks | ah indeed, 4 days, found at https://www.rivm.nl/coronavirus-covid-19/rekenmodellen | 22:22 |
| de-facto | ok so then in one week we would see an ( R ^ (7/4) )-fold of daily new infections | 22:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: AnGes: AG0301-COVID19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/3/ | 22:23 |
| de-facto | hence for R=1.42 it would be 1.42^(7/4) = 1.85-fold each week | 22:23 |
| Tuvix | If the rate held anyway. It's basically a reflection of the tangent of growth (over the specified period) | 22:23 |
| de-facto | doubling time would be for N(t) / N(t-t2) = 2 = R^(t2/ts) hence t2 = ts * Ln(2) / Ln(R) | 22:26 |
| de-facto | hence with R=1.42 and ts = 4 days it would double each t2 = 4 days * Ln(2) / Ln(1.42) = 7.91 days | 22:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: COVID roundup: new cases surpass 44,000 in 24 hours | 13JAN22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/s434jm/covid_roundup_new_cases_surpass_44000_in_24_hours/ | 22:32 |
| lastshell | https://www.covidtests.gov/ for US | 22:34 |
| de-facto | awesome, finally | 22:35 |
| de-facto | thats really good if that works as expected | 22:35 |
| Tuvix | They discussed that on some TV outlets here today; apparently it's a 7-12 day lag to actually get them (makes sense, they've gotta deal with logistics & shipping) so you need to order in advance of your need. | 22:36 |
| `St0ner | covid is running out of people to infect, it will all be over soon | 22:36 |
| `St0ner | no need for boosters or tests for most people | 22:36 |
| Tuvix | `St0ner: Not necessearily; re-infection is far more common with Omicron than with prior varients, and there's no reason to believe re-infection after Omicron will be any different. | 22:37 |
| `St0ner | india had quite the hindu pilgramage recently, y'all see pics from that? | 22:37 |
| `St0ner | no masking, no distancing, zero fucks given by anyone with regards to government and law enforcement orders | 22:38 |
| Tuvix | COVID "found" many people it infected before and infected them again. So it has a virtually limitless supply, and remember that other coronaviruses don't confer much lasting immunity either. | 22:38 |
| `St0ner | isnt that how they evolved delta variant? | 22:38 |
| Tuvix | And all the other varients; not every varient becomes one of "concern" | 22:38 |
| Tuvix | Viruses like this are very good at mutating through random chance as they multiply or due to recombination events. | 22:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Arcturus Therapeutics Inc: ARCT-165 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/148/ | 22:51 |
| Raf[m] | <`St0ner> "covid is running out of people..." <- Such statements are speculative | 22:57 |
| LjL | COVID has kept having waves that went down, often as fast as they went up, *without* infecting everyone first, or at least, there's always someone speculating they actually infected nearly everyone and we reached "herd immunity", but then the next wave mostly proves that false | 22:58 |
| LjL | (unless of course it's a different variant and then you can't say for sure... but come on) | 22:58 |
| LjL | i honestly don't know why it keeps doing this, and many hypotheses have been made here and elsewhere. but the idea we don't need tests or boosters because it's magically run out of people is absurd | 22:59 |
| user | mm hmm | 23:00 |
| user | proly enough deniers for it to last another year, unless a new worse variant appears | 23:01 |
| dTal | s/deniers/poor people | 23:01 |
| `St0ner | https://torontosun.com/news/national/federal-modelling-shows-covid-19-hospitalizations-to-surge | 23:02 |
| user | yes, | 23:02 |
| `St0ner | hmm no url title bot in here eh | 23:02 |
| user | deniers in 1st world, the meek in the 3rd | 23:02 |
| dTal | plenty of meek in the 1st world too | 23:02 |
| user | yes | 23:03 |
| user | often the uneducated lumpen | 23:03 |
| dTal | if you local kebab shop employee gets covid, ya think they're isolating for a week? | 23:03 |
| user | just don't then say, 'see nothing we can do' | 23:04 |
| oerheks | dTal, no, they are ordered to work outside, delivery | 23:04 |
| LjL | a week? surely it's 5 days without a test afterwards now | 23:04 |
| LjL | (or maybe not, depending on where you are, but the CDC guidance is certainly propagating to other countries, and minds) | 23:04 |
| user | UK is 2 negatives, US is wear a facial covering or fake it | 23:05 |
| dTal | what, you're allowed to go around covid positive in the US if you wear a face covering? | 23:06 |
| Tuvix | The Atlantic had a nice summary of the mess the CDC's recent rule change has been. The first 3 paragraphs here are tongue-in-cheek but clearly show the problem: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/01/cdc-new-isolation-guidelines-confusing/621192/ | 23:06 |
| Tuvix | dTal: You're allowed to go around in the US basically anywhere without even that, unless your state or city has other rules. | 23:06 |
| Tuvix | You "shouldn't" do that according to my county and state (and CDC's) guidance. But it's only "guidance" and "recommendations." | 23:06 |
| user | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1481690657169182721 | 23:08 |
| de-facto | .title | 23:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "Example on CDC guidelines Lighting up @tiktok_us @YouTube @Twitter I'm predicting he'll have a @netflix special in the future @StephenAtHome should have him on " | Hungary- [...] | 23:10 |
| LjL | dTal, Tuvix my understanding is the latest CDC guidance (which Fauci said would likely be "refined", but it wasn't, bit of a conflict there i think) is positive people should break isolation after 5 days, *without* getting a test | 23:10 |
| Tuvix | Yea, that clip is spot on. I mean, it's nonsense, but that's what people are doing. Or, no, that's not what they're doing, but that's what they've been "asked" to do. | 23:10 |
| Tuvix | Oh, it's worse than that, because they're supposed to mask up for days 6 to 10, but that's more or less not stressed anywhere. Even Fauci when he got on friendly TV networks to talk about that in detail didn't really make a point of that, although he did at least mention it. | 23:11 |
| Tuvix | And I can assure you from at least the areas around me, people already aren't masking when it's "suggested" to do so. | 23:12 |
| Tuvix | In theory masks have been suggested any time community tranasmission is in "substantial" or "high." That would be orange or red on this map: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view | 23:13 |
| Tuvix | (spoiler if you don't want to load that: it's 99.7% or so of the US.) | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Netherlands won't send diplomatic group to Beijing Olympics → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s445jj/netherlands_wont_send_diplomatic_group_to_beijing/ | 23:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Pink masks? No thanks, say some Italian police officers. → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s44e3n/pink_masks_no_thanks_say_some_italian_police/ | 23:39 |
| LjL | what | 23:44 |
| LjL | what the hell we really don't have anything more important to think about | 23:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, Eric Topol tweeted https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1482059777005932544 about a new T-cell study, i think you tend to like those https://www.nature.com/articles/d41591-022-00017-z | 23:47 |
| user | would it be so hard to make a nationwide in/outdoor mask mandate, and get people the quality free masks | 23:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: CDC urges Americans to wear most protective mask or respirator that fits well and that they'll wear consistently → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s44jgi/cdc_urges_americans_to_wear_most_protective_mask/ | 23:49 |
| LjL | user, an actual *quality* mask like an Aura costs 5 to 7 euro here | 23:50 |
| user | ask the public airwaves, to run free commercials, every 15-30 minutes | 23:50 |
| LjL | i'd say that would not be possible | 23:50 |
| user | I bought 3Ms Vflex's N-95s for 50cents/ per | 23:50 |
| Tuvix | Hmm, let me go see what the new tagline is, but I'm sure it's still just a "recommendation" etc etc. | 23:51 |
| user | right before the sudden omicron spike, by chance, now they are sold out and raised the prices | 23:51 |
| Tuvix | "CDC continues to recommend that you wear the most protective mask you can that fits well and that you will wear consistently." (from: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html ) | 23:51 |
| user | defense manufacturing act, worldwide vaccines and worldwide masks, like its a war | 23:52 |
| Tuvix | So, uh, "continues to recommend" as of, what, 2022-Jan-14, I guess? :\ | 23:52 |
| s1gyn | I don't see the need for an outdoor mandate in most outdoor situations outside sidewalks in dense urban areas maybe. | 23:52 |
| Tuvix | Note that all the guidance if you pull up the longer text is still just a "recommend[ation]" and what you "should" do. | 23:53 |
| LjL | oh i forgot there was something on twitter about change in CDC mask guidance, or rather "Fauci" saying "wear the highest quality that you can bear" | 23:53 |
| LjL | quite a scatterbrained day today | 23:53 |
| Tuvix | Yea, outdoor mandates don't really do much, except in crowded settings. Think outdoor performances, Times Square, etc. | 23:53 |
| Tuvix | Wel, the mask guidance just literally changed today, I think within the last hour even. | 23:54 |
| Tuvix | But again, note that this does nothing except help direct those who already wanted to follow the recommendations to slightly improve what they do, or at least encourage them to do it. | 23:54 |
| Tuvix | The practical effect when I go to the grocery store or buy pet supplies next week will be almost zero. | 23:54 |
| Tuvix | (I was already following this becuase the science says it's the right choice, not because the CDC finally, 2 years into this, figured out they should tell the public that) | 23:55 |
| de-facto | LjL, thats good news thanks for linking that | 23:55 |
| LjL | not sure if the bot spat them out already but i have a good-looking and a bad-looking study (well the latter is a university press release) with reddit comments, that i honestly don't feel very much like looking at | 23:56 |
| LjL | %title https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s3r8sx/omicron_associated_with_91_reduction_in_risk_of/ | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.reddit.com: Omicron associated with 91% reduction in risk of death compared to Delta, study finds : Coronavirus | 23:56 |
| LjL | %title https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s3xv05/blood_markers_of_brain_damage_are_higher_over/ (comment says title is a bit misleading) | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.reddit.com: Blood Markers of Brain Damage Are Higher Over Short Term in Patients Who Have COVID-19 Than in People Who Have Alzheimer’s Disease : COVID19 | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: CDC encourages more Americans to consider N95 masks: Health officials on Friday encouraged more Americans to wear the kind of N95 or KN95 masks used by health-care workers to slow the spread of Covid-19. → https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/14/cdc-encourages-more-americans-to-consider-n95-masks/ | 23:58 |
| Tuvix | Hmm, the long-text has a pretty weak statement in the intro too: "Masking is a critical public health tool for preventing spread of COVID-19, and it is important to remember that any mask is better than no mask. This page presents options in order of least to most protective." | 23:59 |
| Tuvix | So, this is a critical tool, but we'll suggest you wear something since it's better, and then give you the least-good tools first? :\ | 23:59 |
| Tuvix | better than nothing* | 23:59 |
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