| LjL | Hmm anyone know what this is supposed to be about? | 01:12 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | %title https://mobile.twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1482843365364228096 | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From mobile.twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "If Omicron really truly gives crappy immunity against Omicron and thus readily allows reinfection, that would be a serious paradigm shift. I suspect there is [...] | 01:12 |
| LjL | Some study purportedly showing omicron doesn't create robust immunity against itself? | 01:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVAX Delivers Billionth Vaccine - → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5pbdv/covax_delivers_billionth_vaccine/ | 01:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New study says COVID could lead to more brain damage than Alzheimer's → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5pk3u/new_study_says_covid_could_lead_to_more_brain/ | 01:25 |
| de-facto | understanding reinfections is very important | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fashion-conscious Italian police are in revolt after receiving batches of pink face masks to wear on duty, arguing that the "Eccentric" colour is ill-matched with their uniforms. After opening the boxes, many of the officers refused to wear the [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5q1rx/fashionconscious_italian_police_are_in_revolt/ | 01:44 |
| Spec_ | LjL: lol | 01:46 |
| LjL | Spec_, i read about it before, this time the headline is even more loquacious ;( | 01:47 |
| LjL | seriously thought | 01:47 |
| LjL | though* | 01:47 |
| LjL | it's irrelevant and they probably should have just taken the masks | 01:47 |
| LjL | but... we don't have perfectly anonymous boring white masks to give to the police? | 01:47 |
| lastshell | I don't mind to wear a pink masks, most cops maybe are not straight enough | 01:49 |
| de-facto | i think the only sane way to deal with this pathogen is zero-covid | 01:49 |
| lastshell | de-facto china is trying to doing | 01:50 |
| de-facto | maybe in a few years when all other approaches failed more people will accept zero-covid | 01:50 |
| LjL | sounds likely | 01:50 |
| lastshell | but zero-covid policy is not impossible ? | 01:52 |
| de-facto | no its just a question of cohesion | 01:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Omicron appears "mild" mostly because infected people are younger, vaccinated, previously infected, or all three. Omicron case hospitalisations are 20-25% lower than Delta (which was 126% higher than Alpha). → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/s5qb62/omicron_appears_mild_mostly_because_infected/ | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The world's 10 wealthiest men doubled their fortunes during the first two years of the coronavirus pandemic as poverty and inequality soared. Oxfam said the men's wealth jumped from $700 billion to $1.5 trillion, at an average rate of $1.3 billion [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5qdt1/the_worlds_10_wealthiest_men_doubled_their/ | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: World’s 10 richest men see their wealth double during Covid pandemic → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5qmi2/worlds_10_richest_men_see_their_wealth_double/ | 02:12 |
| camelia[m] | LjL: is offloop.net/covid19 back? The graph is working again, but it looks weird | 03:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | camelia: for me https://offloop.net/covid19 still shows no graphs except recoveries, but you can always get the alternate data by either clicking on "Alternate data source" (and waiting) or just adding ?&legacy=no to the URL | 03:43 |
| camelia[m] | the number of sick people is nuts, lots of ppl i know are sick | 03:43 |
| camelia[m] | more than any other wave | 03:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | Yes, definitely very many sick people this wave, vertical flattening of the curve | 03:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | also something must be wrong with the bridge because your message wasn't seen on IRC... err, it is being seen now. 43 minutes late. | 03:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | Weird, it looks like your message only went through when I replied to it | 03:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Democratic Voters Support Harsh Measures Against Unvaccinated → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/s5sgq4/democratic_voters_support_harsh_measures_against/ | 03:48 |
| sdfgsdfg | just some random facts, I was reading the effectiveness of influenza vaccines. "Influenza can cause severe and life-threatening illness in children, accounting for a worldwide estimated 870 000 hospitalizations and 34 800 deaths annually in children aged <5 years" Didn't know we had such high numbers of hospitalization and death for flu | 04:00 |
| LjL | wow, that's also a pretty high number of deaths *over* those hospitalizations | 04:02 |
| LjL | maybe we should get better at not letting them die, like | 04:03 |
| lastshell | where I am pretty much some people I knew more are infected or had covid | 04:20 |
| lastshell | this was a big wave | 04:20 |
| de-facto | what you mean was? its increasing in most locations | 04:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Self-isolation cut to five full days in England: People can now stop quarantining earlier - as long as they produce negative lateral flow tests. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60011276 | 04:54 |
| squirrel | seems to be falling in europe no? | 04:58 |
| de-facto | .title https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases | 05:11 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From ourworldindata.org: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Cases - Statistics and Research - Our World in Data | 05:11 |
| de-facto | nope | 05:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Everyone at Mark's house party caught COVID but him. He's furious → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5uayp/everyone_at_marks_house_party_caught_covid_but/ | 05:13 |
| squirrel | o nice page | 05:15 |
| LjL | ... | 05:16 |
| de-facto | Greenland is spiking like crazy | 06:33 |
| de-facto | .cases greenland | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Greenland has had 7083 confirmed cases (12.6% of all people) and 2 deaths (0.0% of cases; 1 in 28040 people) as of 3 days ago. 157930 tests were done (4.5% positive). 41280 were vaccinated (73.6%). +630 cases, +1236 tests since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greenland&legacy=no | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Greenland, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 06:34 |
| de-facto | they only have 56.4k ppl | 06:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The First Czech Convicted for Spreading Covid Misinformation → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5vxij/the_first_czech_convicted_for_spreading_covid/ | 06:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Billionaires added $5 trillion to their fortunes during the pandemic → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5wiie/billionaires_added_5_trillion_to_their_fortunes/ | 07:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Almost All Teens in ICU With COVID Were Unvaccinated: Study → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/s5xc5m/almost_all_teens_in_icu_with_covid_were/ | 08:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: One year on, The US COVID19 vaccination programme is estimated to have prevented 1.1million deaths and 10.3million hospitalizations → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/s5xtsx/one_year_on_the_us_covid19_vaccination_programme/ | 08:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 17, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s5ymde/daily_discussion_thread_january_17_2022/ | 09:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Europe Starts To Consider Treating Covid Like The Flu, "Live With It" → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5yna4/europe_starts_to_consider_treating_covid_like_the/ | 09:20 |
| sdfgsdfg | Damn, one of the 2 job offers is from this health insurance company. After accepting it I noticed they have a hardcore vaccine mandate by the Victorian state for being one of the key sectors. They require 3 doses by the end of 31 Jan 2022 | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Researchers In Sweden Identify Gene Variant That Protects Against Covid → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s5z2cd/researchers_in_sweden_identify_gene_variant_that/ | 09:49 |
| sdfgsdfg | you can only choose 1 - yes I can show proof 2- no I need time 3- no I'm against vaccines | 09:49 |
| sdfgsdfg | you could as well choose..... to jump out of the nearest window lol | 09:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Could SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Be Responsible for Long-COVID Syndrome? → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s5zuiw/could_sarscov2_spike_protein_be_responsible_for/ | 10:47 |
| sdfgsdfg | wtf ? | 10:48 |
| sdfgsdfg | ^ that's an odd title | 10:48 |
| sdfgsdfg | Further studies are urgently needed to address the neuropathogenesis of SARS-CoV-2 infection [227, 228] or the long-term effects of COVID-19 especially in the brain [229]. COVID vaccines have been enormously helpful [230,231,232], but there have been reports of rare neurological complications including Guillain-Barre syndrome and Bell’s palsy [233]. These may be related to the recent finding that the spike protein expressed in response to mRNA | 10:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | vaccines was detected in the circulation as early as 1 day post vaccination and became undetectable by day 14 [234]. Hence, we should try to limit or prevent spike-related detrimental effects especially to the brain and their potential contribution to the development of long-COVID. | 10:51 |
| zutt | sdfgsdfg: insurance companies are good at doing the micromort maths, 1 should be the only option if you work for them :P | 10:52 |
| zutt | well, in free countries thats probably illegal | 10:53 |
| zutt | :D | 10:53 |
| zutt | illegal to require vaccines & proof that is and give no other option ^ | 10:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | yes I don't think they will negotiate it with me... but I'll try- as a remote worker | 10:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | ( wfh ) | 10:54 |
| zutt | "Being infected with COVID-19 in July 2020 likely exposed you to 10,000 micromorts (about enough to get you to Mount Everest base camp)" - "This results in an exposure of 1,031 micromorts, or 6.03 micromorts per day for an unvaccinated individual in the U.S. between May and October 2021. Does the idea of BASE jumping make you nervous? Being unvaccinated sure should, as well. | 10:55 |
| zutt | " | 10:56 |
| zutt | https://www.the-rheumatologist.org/article/understanding-risk-in-the-covid-19-era/ | 10:56 |
| zutt | oh theres a nice age-chart for micromorts on wikipedia too, not sure how accurate these are tho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Other | 10:57 |
| genera | space age ! | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Israel logs largest leap in seriously ill COVID patients since September → https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/s60gyp/israel_logs_largest_leap_in_seriously_ill_covid/ | 11:06 |
| zutt | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/01/14/national/intestinal-bacteria-covid19-mortality-rates/ this is kinda interesting as well, however.. as a Finnish person, I'm not too sure if this is very good study | 11:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Report reveals nearly 90% of big US meat plants had COVID-19 cases in pandemic’s first year → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s60tva/report_reveals_nearly_90_of_big_us_meat_plants/ | 11:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wealth of world's 10 richest men doubled in pandemic, Oxfam says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s614k0/wealth_of_worlds_10_richest_men_doubled_in/ | 11:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: COVID-19 lockdowns have doubled adolescent pregnancy and tripled school dropout among secondary schoolgirls in Kenya. → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/s614nl/covid19_lockdowns_have_doubled_adolescent/ | 12:14 |
| sdfgsdfg | does kenya even have access to drinking water | 12:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | people die of starvation too right | 12:17 |
| sdfgsdfg | in kenya ? no | 12:18 |
| sdfgsdfg | "An estimated 2.1 million Kenyans face starvation due to a drought in half the country, which is affecting harvests" | 12:18 |
| Tuvix | Public radio here just used the death comparison to 9/11 in this morning's discussion on the COVID situation, similar to what I'd used, though he was less specific just calling it "a 9/11 every day or two" | 13:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Fighting Covid-19 in Kibera, one of Africa’s largest informal settlements: Interest in getting vaccinated is high among residents of Kibera, one of Africa's largest informal settlements. Getting enough doses for them quickly will be a challenge. → https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/17/fighting-covid-in-kibera-large-informal-settlement-in-africa/ | 13:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s62klj/no_vaccine_no_french_open_for_djokovic_says/ | 13:22 |
| genera | so, it's the French Closed, no? | 13:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Healthcare use in 700 000 children and adolescents for six months after covid-19: before and after register based cohort study: AbstractObjectivesTo explore whether and for how long use of healthcare services is increased among children and adolescents after covid-19.DesignBefore and after register based [... want %more?] → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj-2021-066809.short | 13:41 |
| Tuvix | genera: Not if you consider all the other players that are vaccinated. They all knew the rules, but one tried to ignore them. | 14:01 |
| Tuvix | It's open for anyone who follows the rules, and that's not the only requirement. Just the one that's relevant for that player. | 14:02 |
| genera | i see that .fr is planning to simply close all athletic vernues for all visitors whether players or spectators. all unvaccineted that is. | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Novak Djokovic could be barred from French Open: Tennis star could miss another grand slam after French MPs back vaccine pass law. → https://www.politico.eu/article/novak-djokovic-could-be-barred-from-french-open-2022-without-vaccine/ | 14:10 |
| Tuvix | Those kinds of events that attract lots of people who sit next to each other for hours has impact not only on spread (which, yes, the vaccinated can also be part of with breakthrough infections) but also means some of the unvaccinated who get infected are then at higher risk of stressing hospitals, ICUs, and at risk of death. | 14:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Why are physicians threatened by efforts to report doctors to their state medical board for COVID-19 misinformation?: It's not "cancel culture" to delicense physicians promoting dangerous [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-are-physicians-threatened-by-efforts-to-report-doctors-to-their-state-medical-board-for-covid-19-misinformation/ | 14:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Omicron Less Severe Even for Unvaccinated, Study Says → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s63yk6/omicron_less_severe_even_for_unvaccinated_study/ | 14:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Mutation rate of Covid19 virus is at least 50 per cent higher than previously thought → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/s6469c/mutation_rate_of_covid19_virus_is_at_least_50_per/ | 15:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Document: Levofloxacin/dexamethasone (ocular use) : List of nationally authorised medicinal products - PSUSA/00010881/202106 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/psusa/levofloxacin/dexamethasone-ocular-use-list-nationally-authorised-medicinal-products-psusa/00010881/202106_en.pdf | 15:27 |
| oerheks | NL: 42,352 new cases, we do have a daily record | 15:50 |
| oerheks | .. but testing has gone up, 100k > 175k tests/day | 15:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Von der Leyen isolating after driver tests positive for COVID → https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der-leyen-isolate-driver-test-positive-covid/ | 16:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: Real estate developer reneges on multimillion-dollar pledge to Harvard-led Covid project: A financially troubled Chinese real-estate developer has reneged on a major pledge to Harvard University, leaving a shortfall of millions of dollars for a major Covid-19 research effort. → https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/17/harvard-covid19-research-china/ | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: PIP: Opinion/decision on a Paediatric investigation plan (PIP): Anti-IL-7Rα monoclonal antibody (S95011/ OSE-127), decision type: , therapeutic area: , PIP number: P/0163/2021 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/paediatric-investigation-plans/emea-002930-pip01-20 | 16:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Vaxneuvance, pneumococcal polysaccharide conjugate vaccine (adsorbed), Pneumococcal Infections, Date of authorisation: 13/12/2021, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/vaxneuvance | 17:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Beijing locks down office building with workers still inside over single Omicron case → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s68jnk/beijing_locks_down_office_building_with_workers/ | 18:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: In Greece, unvaccinated people ages 60 and up now face monthly fines: The nation imposed the new mandate on Monday as it looks to bring its vaccination rate closer in line with the EU average. The unvaccinated will [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/01/17/1073623759/in-greece-unvaccinated-people-ages-60-and-up-now-face-monthly-fines | 18:42 |
| xx | insane | 18:48 |
| xx | literally pay fines just for being alive on this planet | 18:48 |
| Tuvix | xx: That's not why they're being fined and you know that. | 18:49 |
| xx | it's to that effect | 18:49 |
| Tuvix | That's, *literally* not the reason. | 18:49 |
| xx | like sure, antivaxx are stupid, but at the same time having innocent humans pay fines? | 18:50 |
| Tuvix | They're being fined for not following vaccination requirements; it has nothing to do with not being dead. | 18:50 |
| xx | it's effectively saying that a hermit living in the woods far from society is breaking the law and must be fined | 18:50 |
| Tuvix | You do realize most of the people fined are not isolated from society, yes? You appear to want to argue points that make no sense at all. Please stop it. | 18:51 |
| xx | instead of having it be just a blanket monthly fine, convert it to a subscription to enter publicly-accessible buildings instead, such as hospitals, etc. | 18:51 |
| Tuvix | A number of countires are taking similar approaches, and the people being targeted with enforcement are the ones in population centers. | 18:51 |
| xx | don't pay that subscription = no access to public infra | 18:51 |
| xx | I'd be happier with that than just paying a blanket fine for existing | 18:52 |
| Tuvix | And that's not what this is. | 18:52 |
| Tuvix | It's a fine for refusing to follow public health requirements. Existing has nothing to do with the laws. | 18:52 |
| xx | well then fine fat people, fine smokers, fine alcohol drinkers, ... | 18:53 |
| Tuvix | They aren't filling up ICUs and hospitals to the breaking point. | 18:54 |
| xx | well then don't accept unvaccinated into hospitals | 18:54 |
| xx | easy | 18:54 |
| Tuvix | If they were, yes, we'd need far stronger measures to curb those behaviors. | 18:54 |
| Tuvix | That's not legal in most civilized worlds. It is thus not easy at all. | 18:54 |
| xx | then change the laws | 18:54 |
| xx | to make it legal | 18:54 |
| Bakunin | wont happen in the US, but maybe a sane country like Germany or France | 18:55 |
| Tuvix | Not even there. And what, if you don't have proof of vaccination, you'll be turned away after your heart attack? it's just not viable to implement, notwithstanding the lack of moral and ethical society norms that would involve changing. | 18:56 |
| xx | well then change it to paying the fine only once you're in the hospital | 18:56 |
| xx | I just hate it when someone lives on their own farm, away from society, and gov comes along saying "You need to pay a fine" | 18:57 |
| Bakunin | Tuvix it's more that they are showing up with covid symptoms | 18:57 |
| Bakunin | not actual valid medical emergencies | 18:57 |
| Tuvix | xx: Once again you're not listening to the points I'm making and continue to make the same argument. You can't reduce hospital stress by charging people after they take up the space. You need compliance before the system breaks. | 18:57 |
| Bakunin | the valid medical emergency people are the ones dying in the waiting rooms because their diabetic foot infection went septic | 18:57 |
| xx | Tuvix: if people saw they'd need to pay for hospital stays, they'd modify their own behavior (get the vax) | 18:58 |
| Bakunin | because the beds are filled with antivaxers | 18:58 |
| Bakunin | The one hope we can take is that it is preferentially killing the stupid people | 18:58 |
| xx | it's literally the single most effective move any country could make, change free service -> paid service | 18:58 |
| xx | but only for unvaxxed | 18:58 |
| Tuvix | It won't work. If the unvaccinated realized they were so much more likely to end up in the hospital, ICU, or dead, they'd have taken the vaccine in the first place. | 18:59 |
| Bakunin | it would help alleviate hospital burden tho | 18:59 |
| xx | no, because they believe that hospitals would fix them anyway | 18:59 |
| Tuvix | By very definition they've decided not to take it because they view that risk as low, and telling them they'd be charged would not change that. | 18:59 |
| Bakunin | also, so would outright refusal of service | 18:59 |
| Bakunin | Most of these dying antivaxers blame the hospitals lol | 19:00 |
| xx | if they saw they'd need to pay, then they'd get the vax | 19:00 |
| Bakunin | they're doing longform journo off Herman Cain Awards on DailyKos, and I'm drinking every delicious word. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/14/1591327/-Oh-no-In-a-world-of-COVID-horror-stories-I-wouldn-t-wish-this-one-on-my-worst-enemy | 19:00 |
| Tuvix | xx: That is literally not what those interviewed say when they're suffering severe complications. I've watched many such interviews, and "literally" seen the exact opposite. They thought it wouldn't impact them, or that it wouldn't be so bad. This is a *literal* summary of what they've said. Literally. | 19:00 |
| xx | we see different interviews then | 19:01 |
| Tuvix | This is not a tax on "living" like you claim. It's literally not, as in the literature that makes up these laws. You know, literally what the word literally means. | 19:01 |
| Tuvix | Please keep blatent misinformation to a minimum here. | 19:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Democratic Voters Support Harsh Measures Against Unvaccinated → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s69uii/covid19_democratic_voters_support_harsh_measures/ | 19:01 |
| Arsanerit | they would refuse to pay the fine | 19:02 |
| Tuvix | Arsanerit: Right, that too, and now you need to pay entire enforcement divisions to follow-up with that. | 19:02 |
| Tuvix | The whole point is to reduce the impact on society, not add to it. | 19:02 |
| Arsanerit | imho we need better easier vaccination offers and better info before we proceed with mandatory vaccinations | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | there should be as many places to get vaccinated as there currently are to get officially tested | 19:03 |
| Tuvix | In most civilized countries it's not legal to turn people away who need healthcare. Even very strict countries, like China, realize that; for instance, when a policy was implemented that had the unintended effect of declining service to someone who needed it, they swiftly acted to ensure that wouldn't occur again. | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | I am not convinced information from China can be trusted. | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | Are the Uyghurs in "re-education camps" getting the healthcare they need? Would we know if if there was an outbreak there? | 19:04 |
| Tuvix | Actually, a lot of the official test sites around me also serve as outlets for vaccination, so in large part that already exists, at least in this region. | 19:04 |
| Tuvix | It's not lack of vaccination access that's the issue for the currently-unvaccinated. They just decine to act. | 19:04 |
| Bakunin | Arsanerit it varies country by country, but in western democracies, there appears to be no shortage of shots | 19:04 |
| Tuvix | This isn't true elsewhere of course, such as poorer countries who lack financing, logistics, or global supply. | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | I don't have another explanation for the much higher vaccination rate in Germany than in Saxony. | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | Bakunin: There is no shortage of shots, but the thresholds and multilingual information access can still be improved. | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | It still makes a difference if there is a vaccination van around the corner where you can be informed by a local community leader in your native language, or if you have to book an appointment online and sit in a train for 10 minutes, or worse, drive 30 minutes. | 19:06 |
| Bakunin | not in the states, canada, or Europe (for the most part) | 19:06 |
| Arsanerit | The relative vaccination success in Bremen suggests that this is a major factor. | 19:06 |
| Tuvix | Although vaccination isn't the whole story either, with mitigations still being crucial during periods of high spread. | 19:07 |
| Arsanerit | They closed the vaccination centre in my town last month. | 19:07 |
| Arsanerit | Now we have to take train or otherwise to the next town. | 19:07 |
| Tuvix | The US death rate has been pretty bad ever since Delta hit, and even after the Delta surge (but before Omicron) the US only saw a level of death that was still 5 times that of the pre-delta low around early July. | 19:07 |
| Arsanerit | The argument being that the vaccination centre in the next town is larger and can does process more people, but that doesn't explain why not have both. | 19:08 |
| Tuvix | That's just sad that we still have 5x the death rate (more now, almost 8x and still climing as Omicron sweeps the nation) and yet it remains socially acceptable to gather for food, drinks, and events indoors with no concern for who may get infected and die. | 19:08 |
| Tuvix | 5x/8x as compared to mid-summer in the States. | 19:09 |
| Bakunin | the US and australia will probably just have to endure the stupids getting sick, slamming the hospitals, and dying | 19:09 |
| Arsanerit | There is still a subset of unvaccinated people who are misinformed or underinformed. Who may have a language barrier, who may not understand why they need a vaccine despite being healthy, who may think it's too much effort to spend two hours on travel + vaccination for something they are not necessarily opposed to, but don't understand as a priority. | 19:10 |
| Bakunin | the cold weather and indoor lifestyle shift of winter makes transmission far more successful https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-deaths-daily | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | At least such is the situation here in Germany. | 19:10 |
| Bakunin | that guy in the DailyKos article died like the soldier in "Johnny Got His Gun" | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | The few times they do have vaccination actions by putting a van in a neighbourhood with many poor immigrants, staffed by doctors who speak the local language, there are long queues to get the shot. | 19:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: E-Cigarette Users at Higher Risk for Symptomatic COVID-19: People who vape with e-cigarettes and contract COVID-19 are significantly more likely to experience symptoms. → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/e-cigarette-users-at-higher-risk-for-symptomatic-covid-19 | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | I mean, the languages spoken by the minorities living in those neighbourhoods. | 19:11 |
| Tuvix | Sure, although that's harder to pull off if your vulnerable populations who may have language or culture barriers aren't necessarily in similar areas like that. | 19:12 |
| Arsanerit | As I mentioned, there are significant differences between different cities in Germany, despite similar socio-cultural-economic composition, but with different strategies in how to bring vaccination to the people. | 19:13 |
| Arsanerit | There is certainly a hardcore group of antivaxxers, that's a different group. | 19:13 |
| Tuvix | Right, it may work better in a place like Germany; not sure if it was you or someone else, but there was a prior discussion about some of the mountianous regions being more skeptical of vaccines and a far lower uptake as a result. | 19:14 |
| Tuvix | I think the issue of local messengers was mentioned when discussing that regional group. | 19:14 |
| Arsanerit | That too (I linked a related article). | 19:14 |
| Arsanerit | There are also communities where a discreetly parked vaccination van gets more visitors than one places square in the centre. | 19:14 |
| Bakunin | I have a close friend who is antivax. I found out how stupid he is during this episode. | 19:15 |
| Bakunin | You cannot reason with them | 19:15 |
| Bakunin | They are stubborn, defiant, and think with fear-anger axis, not with information-test-confirm axis | 19:15 |
| Bakunin | the world would be better off without all of them, including my friend | 19:15 |
| Arsanerit | I suspect there may be places in the US like that too. In areas where the discussion is heavily politicised, people may not want their friends or family to know they took the vaccine and therefore reluctant to visit a publicly visible vaccination place. Although to be fair, being vaccinated by your own doctor should resolve that issue. | 19:16 |
| xx | Bakunin: the world would be better off without all humans | 19:16 |
| Arsanerit | xx: that is true | 19:16 |
| xx | vhemt.org | 19:16 |
| Bakunin | well, about 75% of us, give or take | 19:16 |
| xx | 100% | 19:16 |
| Tuvix | Not everyone is so firmly against it; reading about the change in vacciation of the Tennis wold-champions (the 128 or so that made it to the Aus Open) as recently as a few months ago around half of them were not vaccinated, but they all, save one, got vaccinated in order to play in the Australian Open. | 19:16 |
| Bakunin | population should be capped globally around 1 bn | 19:16 |
| Bakunin | it somewhat was, until Fritz Haber | 19:16 |
| xx | population should be capped globally at 0 | 19:16 |
| xx | let's put the target date for that cap 150 years in the future | 19:17 |
| Arsanerit | Tuvix: Does Australia accept "Russian", "Chinese", and other "non-western" vaccine for the purposes of entering the country? | 19:17 |
| Arsanerit | xx: What if we make a vaccine that makes all offspring infertile, then make that vaccine mandatory ;-) </j> | 19:17 |
| Arsanerit | It would take a little while before we would realise. | 19:18 |
| xx | Arsanerit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_COVID-19_vaccine_authorizations lists the stuff which countries accept what vaccines for travel | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | xx: Thanks. | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | I read that the UK accepts the British AstraZeneca vaccine but not the Indian one, despite being identical. Not sure if that's still true. | 19:19 |
| xx | I remember reading something like that too, but it wasn't due to the vaccine, but due to papers | 19:19 |
| Arsanerit | It seems that mostly, people vaccinated in poor countries can't travel to rich countries :-/ | 19:21 |
| xx | well, not legally | 19:21 |
| Bakunin | Right now, about 60 Arizonans, 36 Georgians, 34 Wisconsinites and 14 Nevadans are dying of Covid each day. Seventy five percent of 95 percent of that would be minus 103 Trump voters per day — just in those four swing states. Week after week. | 19:21 |
| xx | illegally they still travel very much freely | 19:21 |
| xx | it's not like countries have actual walls at the borders | 19:21 |
| xx | that is without holes | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | xx: that is true | 19:22 |
| Arsanerit | By "can" I meant "are legally allowed to". | 19:22 |
| Bakunin | the guy who might have gotten killed by covid he contracted from hunting deer is my favorite | 19:22 |
| Arsanerit | Bakunin: What are you trying to say with the Trump voter comment? | 19:23 |
| Arsanerit | afaik Trump is fully vaccinated and boostered | 19:23 |
| xx | even more importantly, trump had corona and recovered | 19:23 |
| Bakunin | Arsanerit just that it definitely is changing the political outcome in my country | 19:24 |
| Bakunin | as they die, a more sane populace is left behind... For the next pandemic. | 19:24 |
| xx | strongly disagree, younger people are definitely not more sane than older people | 19:25 |
| Bakunin | in the US they are | 19:25 |
| xx | have you seen babies? They don't understand anything you tell them, they can't talk, they shit themselves all the time, ... | 19:25 |
| Bakunin | nytimes paywalled their covid dashboard, lol | 19:27 |
| Tuvix | Most of the NYT covid resources (not necesarily the news articles they put more investment into though) remain available for free, though some require you to sign up for a (free) account even if you don't subscribe. This remains free for example: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html | 19:28 |
| Arsanerit | Bakunin: Do you have more antivaxxers on the political right than on the left? | 19:29 |
| Tuvix | Same with the 'Track Coronavirus Cases in Places Important to You' I believe you're referring to, Bakunin: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases-deaths-tracker.html | 19:29 |
| Tuvix | I'm not a subscriber but that loads for me. | 19:29 |
| Tuvix | "Thanks for reading The Times. Create your free account or log in to continue reading. | 19:30 |
| Tuvix | ^ That is not a paywall. | 19:30 |
| xx | Build the (pay)wall! | 19:30 |
| Bakunin | Arsanerit yes antivaxers are like 90% rightwing | 19:31 |
| Bakunin | same in most countries | 19:31 |
| Bakunin | here we go. Looks like skiers are helping spread Omicron: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map | 19:32 |
| LjL | my favorite is whichever paper actively refuses to let me load it in incognito mode unless i have an account (which makes it... obviously not very incognito) | 19:34 |
| LjL | might be the NY Times too, i'm not sure | 19:34 |
| LjL | just a thought also: can we like generally try to make this place feel welcoming for the sort of people are not against people, against other people, or against certain other people, rejoicing in their death, disappearance, extinction, or otherwise? | 19:37 |
| LjL | i'm afraid this exact idea is not specifically listed at https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/master/COVID-19-chat.md but i also wish we could avoid needing a list of specific things that need listing | 19:38 |
| Bakunin | is it better if covid stays with us forever, just mutating and passing back and forth from the unvaccinated to the vaccinated, until breakthrus are more common? Because that's what will happen if they persist. | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna aims to roll out a single vaccine for Covid-19, influenza and respiratory syncytial virus -- a common virus that causes the cold in late 2023. The company hopes a joint jab would encourage people to get an annual shot. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s6afec/moderna_aims_to_roll_out_a_single_vaccine_for/ | 19:41 |
| Bakunin | real trolley problem | 19:41 |
| LjL | it's what will happen *anyway* | 19:42 |
| LjL | you're just entirely not realistic if you believe that COVID will *go away*, at this point, just by means of the dumber people not being dumb (or alive) any longer | 19:43 |
| LjL | it would be a massive challenge, at this point, to eradicate COVID even if we all finally managed to have months of worldwide coordinated lockdown | 19:43 |
| xx | why months? WHO says 5 days /s | 19:43 |
| LjL | (it's in animals among other things, and Omicron's R is likely so high even a highly-respected lockdown would be tricky, e.g. in Hong Kong they verified that someone got COVID by opening the door to the same hallway as someone else who had COVID, but *not at the same time*, rather after a 1 hour interval) | 19:44 |
| xx | has it also been verified that people get covid from infected farts? (not joking) | 19:45 |
| xx | is anyone selling N95 underwear yet? | 19:46 |
| LjL | i have a high confidence that while entirely plausible, that has not been verified | 19:46 |
| xx | well it was assumed to be true in march 2020, but I haven't heard anything about it since | 19:46 |
| LjL | i feel it's probably like with cats being infectious to humans: it's not talked about, or when it is then it's like "no, they likely don't, so don't worry about that" because it's not the primary transmission route, and because it's hard to verify | 19:47 |
| * xx thinks we should ban beans to stop spread of covid | 19:47 | |
| Bakunin | LjL covid requires hosts to infect; it could be stopped with herd immunity. | 19:48 |
| LjL | and arguably because it's hard to stop | 19:48 |
| xx | LjL: put masks on butts, put masks on catts | 19:48 |
| LjL | Bakunin, no, it couldn't | 19:48 |
| LjL | if you're still thinking this is the kind of virus that "stops circulating after herd immunity", you're not much more in touch with reality than those people who catch COVID thanks to being stupid | 19:48 |
| xx | omicron proved that those who were talking about herd immunity in 2020/2021 were quacks | 19:49 |
| xx | don't listen to anyone who still talks about herd immunity, it's pseudoscience | 19:50 |
| Bakunin | LjL vaccinated individuals can spread it but the replication goes way, way down | 19:51 |
| Bakunin | as one might imagine with an immune system blocking most cellular infection | 19:51 |
| Tuvix | Not enough to "stop" it, if that means zero-COVID. | 19:51 |
| LjL | [citation needed] | 19:51 |
| xx | Bakunin: very little (if any) evidence that vaccination reduces spread | 19:51 |
| LjL | and also, even if that's true, it's only true for people with a fresh booster | 19:51 |
| LjL | maybe we should vaccinate everybody every week. while locked down at home, of course. | 19:52 |
| xx | the vaccines were have are not the kind that eradicate the virus "on contact" | 19:52 |
| Bakunin | https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583 | 19:52 |
| LjL | "less likely" and "way, way down" are qualitatively different. that article gives 65% and 36% depending on vaccine | 19:53 |
| Bakunin | yes, now imagine 90% vaccination | 19:53 |
| LjL | it's also from Delta times | 19:53 |
| Bakunin | whither the hosts? | 19:53 |
| xx | Bakunin: covid is still spreading in 100% vaccinated areas | 19:53 |
| xx | such as some workplaces | 19:53 |
| Bakunin | there are no 100% vaccinated areas | 19:54 |
| LjL | there are 90% vaccinated areas | 19:54 |
| Bakunin | no real replication there, is there | 19:54 |
| xx | I personally know of workplaces where 100% of the people working there are vaccinated, and still get infected and managed to spread it to others in that workplace | 19:54 |
| xx | nobody ended up hospitalized though | 19:55 |
| LjL | Bakunin, "no real replication"? what is this, "fake replication"? http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&legacy=no | 19:55 |
| Bakunin | that is vaccination rate doing its job | 19:56 |
| Bakunin | being able to collect a virion from a nasal swab != reinfecting others | 19:56 |
| LjL | [citation needed] again | 19:57 |
| LjL | obviously "others" are being infected, with such a blatant upspike | 19:57 |
| LjL | you're being absurdly nonsensical | 19:57 |
| Bakunin | that page shows the death rate right there | 19:57 |
| LjL | you're no better than the people you wish dead | 19:57 |
| LjL | shame on you | 19:57 |
| Bakunin | vaccines work, you can test positive with no symptoms, not sure why you didnt know that | 19:58 |
| LjL | anyway i'm out of this discussion, but for the record: next time someone is rejoicing on others dying, i'll rejoice in banning them | 19:58 |
| xx | Bakunin: what you're saying is along the same kind of nonsense that antivax say, just on the completely opposite side of the spectrum | 19:58 |
| xx | vaccines are not magic | 19:58 |
| xx | they reduce chance of death from covid | 19:59 |
| Bakunin | Running doubling time is quite telling, too :) | 19:59 |
| Tuvix | It also slightly reduces the odds of catching it, which by definition reduces the odds of spreading it. | 19:59 |
| Bakunin | The guy who thinks all humans should die is telling me that I said vaccines are magic | 19:59 |
| Bakunin | time to re-engage that ignore list | 20:00 |
| Tuvix | That's been used in recent studies, including on Omicron specifically, that discuss its protection rate against serious outcomes, becuase that's both factoring protection from catching it, plus protection from serious outcomes after catching it anyway. | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Association between vaccination status and reported incidence of post-acute COVID-19 symptoms in Israel: a cross-sectional study of patients tested between March 2020 and November 2021 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s6b7c3/association_between_vaccination_status_and/ | 20:00 |
| xx | well it would be pretty suspicious if humans were suddenly immortal, so yeah humans *should* die because that's what all humans eventually managed to do | 20:01 |
| ublx | okokokokok | 20:01 |
| ublx | what's the flag to mute the entire channel again? | 20:01 |
| xx | /mode ##covid-19 +m | 20:03 |
| Bakunin | https://twitter.com/redouad/status/1482991873190936576?t=YHEYDTXRPP9Lm4T68vmnSA&s=19 | 20:26 |
| Bakunin | or, https://twitter.com/redouad/status/1482991873190936576 | 20:26 |
| Bakunin | first time ive seen an ID tracker on a twitter link, sorry | 20:26 |
| Bakunin | https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination | 20:28 |
| Bakunin | if we get our hospitalization rate to 1/50th what it is now, I think we're done with pandemic | 20:29 |
| Arsanerit | Bremen has 88% vaccination rate, Saxony 64%. That is a big differenc. | 20:31 |
| Bakunin | Bremen is a wonderful town | 20:32 |
| Bakunin | https://twitter.com/debdrens/status/1483026905586671621 | 20:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: us: Public Health Watch: Study Finds No Benefit for Convalescent Plasma in Severe COVID-19 → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/public-health-watch-study-finds-no-benefit-for-convalescent-plasma-in-severe-covid-19 | 21:06 |
| Bakunin | once its severe, the patient is liley terminal | 21:14 |
| Bakunin | *likely | 21:14 |
| Tuvix | Bakunin: Citation please? That seems to go against an analysis that drew from 24 other studies to conclude, "The ICU mortality rate (95%CI) across all studies included in the quantitative analysis was 41.6%" . Source: https://doi.org/10.1111/anae.15201 | 21:20 |
| lastshell | 2 weeks after omicron I did a covid pcr test I will knew the results in 2 days more | 21:40 |
| lastshell | I hope is out of my system | 21:40 |
| lastshell | I did a small walk and I did't like my heart rate when a little up 100 | 21:41 |
| lastshell | I will do more small walks once in a while | 21:43 |
| Tuvix | Once your're past the accute symptom phase, you can more or less resume doing what you did pre-infection; the same really applies to post-vaccination too, and note that impact like heart inflamation resulting from COVID infection is still a quite rare side-effect to the extent that it causes medical problems. | 21:45 |
| lastshell | Tuvix I hope wed shows im negative and I will try to do do more exercise | 21:48 |
| Tuvix | Getting out and moving is good, even if it's just a walk around the block, so no real need to worry about stressing yourself if you're still feeling under the weather. But, sure, using the test result as a guage of how under control the virus is as your body fights it off is another tool to inform your choices for more involved workouts. | 21:49 |
| lastshell | thanks | 21:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Plant-based diets or pescatarian diets associated with lower odds of moderate-to-severe COVID-19 → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/s6dez4/plantbased_diets_or_pescatarian_diets_associated/ | 21:53 |
| LjL | it has been found that the average heartrate of people who've had COVID tends to be a little higher, at least during the first month or two | 21:54 |
| LjL | i think that was one of the findings in the German "wearable" study that de-facto knows about, but i think in at least another separate study too | 21:54 |
| LjL | a walk will certainly not hurt in any case (and will likely help) | 21:54 |
| lastshell | thank you LjL | 21:55 |
| LjL | and if you're still positive, keep in mind a lot of people still test positive after two weeks. it doesn't really mean anything bad, that we know of, except there's still RNA around and, depending on the location, that you may still be required to quarantine | 21:55 |
| lastshell | thank you LjL | 21:56 |
| lastshell | I hope and negative mom got it worst | 21:56 |
| de-facto | .title https://corona-datenspende.de/science/en/reports/prolongedchanges/ | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From corona-datenspende.de: Changes in vital data after a COVID-19 infection · Science Blog | 21:56 |
| lastshell | I recover faster than her | 21:56 |
| lastshell | but intul 2 days we know our last result | 21:56 |
| Tuvix | Well, not just quarantine if required by local rules (which, yes, please at least follow the local guidance there!) but also the tests are helpful to inform decisions on mask-wearing in places you might not have previously been required or elected to mask. | 21:57 |
| Tuvix | I take the other extreme and mask up ANY time I'm in public with members outside my household (eg: shopping, to-go food ordering, etc) but I realize not everyone has the same risk calculations going into their choices either. | 21:57 |
| lastshell | yeah I always wear masks the issue was we gather in xmas/new year eve with family all vaccinated | 21:59 |
| lastshell | and that is when we got covid | 21:59 |
| LjL | that was likely not a great decision either, but by now you know that and can't undo it ;( | 22:00 |
| LjL | i can't even remember if masks are currently required here outdoors or not | 22:00 |
| lastshell | exactly | 22:00 |
| de-facto | just monitor your pulse rate and dont stress your heart too much moderate mobility is most likely beneficial though | 22:04 |
| lastshell | thanks guys sucks this | 22:05 |
| Tuvix | Gitting sick usually does, it's just this disease is almost literally everywhere and very good at infecting people | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: World's 10 richest men got richer during pandemic, worth combined $1.5 trillion → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s6exe1/worlds_10_richest_men_got_richer_during_pandemic/ | 22:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China Blames Mail From Canada For Omicron Case In Beijing: Report → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s6ezdt/china_blames_mail_from_canada_for_omicron_case_in/ | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: AnGes: AG0301-COVID19 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/3/ | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Anhui Zhifei Longcom: ZF2001 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/27/ | 22:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Arcturus Therapeutics Inc: ARCT-165 → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/148/ | 23:10 |
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