Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Why Covid-19 vaccines are a freaking miraclestatnews.com/2022/02/14/why… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493362853981609990 | 00:17 |
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xx | yeah let's not call them miracles | 00:19 |
Tuvix | Clark's 3rd law seems to apply here. Also, perhaps have a comment about the article, not the twitter/reddit/facebook "let's just make commentary on the article's title" for best results. | 00:21 |
blueberrycrop | Hahaha xD | 00:21 |
LjL | yeah, maybe Marc Veldhoen is someone else who wants to end up in the ##covid-ticker twitterer-hell | 00:23 |
LjL | abandon all hope ye who enter here | 00:23 |
Tuvix | And really, who am I to say the "development, testing, manufacturing, and global distribution of Covid vaccines" wasn't the result of prayer. I don't actively practice religion myself, but this is the kind of thing those who are of faith believe can occur. | 00:23 |
LjL | and i've got to say i've not particularly appreciated statnews's coverage in general | 00:23 |
Tuvix | Sure, all that article seems to be, besides obvious click-bait, is a bit of a summary of "how we got the vaccines." | 00:24 |
Tuvix | But that doesn't make the vaccines any less special, considering we don't have other good options with similar effectiveness. | 00:24 |
Tuvix | How much of an amazing delivery of a medical product does it take to be a "miracle"? I don't know, but for those that do believe in them, I won't discount such a view. I will say that it's not very scientific :P | 00:25 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): The COVID Strategy America Hasn’t Really TriedThe clearest way to reduce deaths is to push to vaccinate more of the elderly—yes, still!theatlantic.com/health/archive… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493363191908343808 | 00:26 |
LjL | if it's not very scientific, and yet it's on statnews, i really think it shouldn't be | 00:26 |
LjL | so all in all, meh, at the article, meh² at the headline, and meh³ at Veldhoen just retweeting it with the headline as commentary, for what i'm concerned | 00:27 |
Tuvix | The statnews article really misses the point when they talk about the drop in infection VE too, but as you said, it seems to be a low-quality article so that's not really surprising. | 00:27 |
Tuvix | I mean, it's possibly interesting if someone never heard of any of the last 2 years of progress on COVID I suppose, but it's written like a video game review would be. | 00:28 |
xx | I'm upset they told those big brother contestants about covid so early on | 00:30 |
xx | should have let it run till the end | 00:30 |
LjL | it says some things worthy of discussion though i guess: when it mentions how the 2009 flu vaccines weren't developed quickly because we usually develop them in eggs, and somehow that didn't work with that year's virus, and then it says that if this had been a flu pandemic again, "“We would have pressed hard on egg-based production. And it’s not extensible and it doesn’t scale,” Hatchett said."... | 00:32 |
LjL | it makes me wonder: how many 2009s would we have needed before we realized a sudden onset of a very aggressive flu strain couldn't be handled with the usual process at the appropriate speed? | 00:33 |
xx | human cell-line (kidney?) are better anyway | 00:33 |
xx | plus fuck eggs | 00:34 |
LjL | maybe the true miracle will be when we stop doing the same thing and expecting different results | 00:34 |
Tuvix | In a way we did part of that with multiple mRNA vaccines as a leading product in this pandemic, but we've discovered some other problems that aren't necessarily ones vaccines can solve. | 00:34 |
LjL | Tuvix, yes, but the article is basically saying: we did that because this wasn't a flu virus and so we *knew* we had to come up with something different. but it also said after the 2009 experience, we knew that for flu too. but we wouldn't have done it anyway. so that's... not good? | 00:35 |
Tuvix | The article does point out some other approaches failed, which is closer to your point about expecting to handle a novel pathogen with the same old methods. | 00:35 |
Tuvix | Investment (funding yes, but a global understanding for its need too) has to be there for something like we saw with nCoV-2 to work. Without governments dumping huge piles of money into the situation, this wouldn't have been possible. | 00:37 |
LjL | actually i didn't mean handling a new pathogen with the old methods, in theory we didn't know that might not work | 00:37 |
LjL | i meant we had at least one chance to realize that the egg method was slow, and hence not appropriate for an aggressive pandemic | 00:38 |
LjL | old flu or novel pathogen, little difference in this sense | 00:38 |
Tuvix | I'm certainly not denying that we've probably been unprepared for a pandemic on this scale for many reasons going back decades of policy and planning decisions. | 00:38 |
Tuvix | However, I'm not sure we could roll back the clock 10 years and somehow fix that by warning that something like this could happen. | 00:38 |
LjL | well maybe we shouldn't call what we did do a "miracle" when it's mostly the side effects of a consistent human-scale failure | 00:39 |
LjL | i'm just back to that :P | 00:39 |
Tuvix | So, better article title, "Humanity doesn't such as badly as it could have without these vaccines!" | 00:40 |
Tuvix | suck* | 00:40 |
LjL | "There is also a fear that people will assume the next time will be easier or even more successful, that what happened with Covid will lead to complacency." ← so which one is it, are we underappreciating or overappreciating? :P | 00:40 |
Tuvix | I'm still convinced there's more to it than *just* weak US vaccine uptake, but the comparisons with ICU & death outcomes still mean not every well-to-do economic nation has fared equally in this (nevermind all the less-able countries still struggling) | 00:41 |
LjL | actually i didn't realize you were convinced there was more to it | 00:41 |
LjL | what do you think it is? | 00:41 |
Tuvix | Vaccines are obviously a large part of it, but social acceptance and political will to have some regulations and enforce them. While the UK PM is being critisized for having "lockdown parties," most places in the US never had any problems with in-person social events going back many months. | 00:43 |
Tuvix | Misinformation and an utter lack of political leadership with our last president haven't helped, and it's continued with the our consertative minority party with congressional officials at federal offices continuing to prey on vaccine skepticism as a way to win cheap political points. | 00:43 |
Tuvix | I've had a hard time buying my usual mouthwash from Amazon the last few months (I have enough, but last order had to buy a flavour I don't usually due to shortages.) That's in part becuase a sitting US senator suggested (without any medical backing) that mouthwash cuts down on effective COVID spread. | 00:45 |
Tuvix | That's just one case example of our political leaders touting quack science both for political reasons and with no medical basis at all. | 00:45 |
Tuvix | We have a medically-proven way to reduce COVID spread: masks, and getting vaccinated will help as a multiplier to some degree as well. | 00:46 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Hong Kong: +2071 cases, +2 deaths since 21 hours ago — Spain: +68706 cases, +601 deaths, +404822470 tests (0.0% positive) since 3 days ago — Netherlands: +55011 cases, +6 deaths since 21 hours ago — Germany: +123064 cases, +130 deaths since 21 hours ago | 01:01 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ Open: Association between pharmaceutical modulation of oestrogen in postmenopausal women in Sweden and death due to COVID-19: a cohort study: Objective Determine whether augmentation of oestrogen in postmenopausal women decreases the risk of death following COVID-19. Design Nationwide registry-based study [... want %more?] → http://bmjopen.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/12/2/e053032 | 01:24 |
Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Booster protection from omicron hospital stay dips from 91% to 78% → https://arstechnica.com/ | 01:34 |
xx | ^ that one should probably link to the actual article on arstechnica | 01:35 |
* rustynail1[m] uploaded an image: (76KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zJLRsxPVQXuuqvTfozxagQax/quarantine-ad.jpg > | 01:53 | |
rustynail1[m] | hmm earily familiar | 01:53 |
rustynail1[m] | this is from the 1918 pandemic | 01:54 |
rustynail1[m] | 🤔 | 01:58 |
LjL | xx, yeah it should but their RSS feed is dumb and i am lazy :( | 01:59 |
LjL | i noticed that before although right now i forget what it is they do exactly | 01:59 |
Tuvix | Actually, this time it's a lot different. Today, a century later, quarantine is merely "guidance" and you're "suggested" to isolate or quarantine where appropriate. | 01:59 |
LjL | i think something like there are several <links> but only one <link> to their homepage | 01:59 |
LjL | cool ad though (i mean cool in some sense) | 02:00 |
Tuvix | Why worry about the telephone or (more recently) Zoom, Skype, and FaceTime when you can just decide the medical guidance isn't for you and go see your friends at the bar anyway, despite getting your positive test result yesterday? After all, it's "only guidance" | 02:00 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 02:00 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:00 |
LjL | i think what it does make me draw a parallel on is how instead of going "DOOOOOOM! THE PLAGUE, IT WILL KILL US AAAALL!", today as in 1918 we're resorting to technology to lull us into complacency | 02:01 |
LjL | which i can say about Europe instead of the US, where quarantine *is* a thing (or was, at least) :P | 02:01 |
Tuvix | Sure, but is today's technology, and more importantly, our undersatnding of it and willingness to apply it well, up to the task? | 02:01 |
rustynail1[m] | there were anti maskers back then too | 02:02 |
rustynail1[m] | 🤔 | 02:02 |
Tuvix | And yes, most of the EU did a better job with quarantine rules (you know, by having them as *rules* to begin with) than the US, but I was making a US-only comparison due to the ad. | 02:02 |
rustynail1[m] | the conspiracys are prolly worse today tho | 02:02 |
Tuvix | That's a feature of technology too. | 02:03 |
LjL | Tuvix, it seems to be up to the task of making us complacent and making this feel at one time like doomsday and like "[smartphone] business as usual" | 02:03 |
Tuvix | No longer are crackpot theories limited to small groups of people in your town and a bit of national-correspondance; now you can tweet your nonsense and it'll go viral before tomorrow. | 02:03 |
rustynail1[m] | there are people in my family inhaling peroxide | 02:03 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:03 |
LjL | at least i get that note of uhm | 02:03 |
LjL | i don't know how to say | 02:03 |
LjL | something that feels one way and the opposite way at the same time | 02:04 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Fr. Polynesia: +2805 cases since 3 days ago — France: +35245 cases, +387 deaths since 22 hours ago | 02:04 |
LjL | not just inconsistent or contradictory (hi pwr22) but discordant in your own head... dissonant | 02:04 |
LjL | i guess dissonant is sort of what i was after | 02:04 |
rustynail1[m] | you would not believe the level of people in my area smoking peroxide to "prevent covid" | 02:05 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:05 |
pwr22 | LjL: Ambivalent? | 02:05 |
pwr22 | Conflicted? | 02:06 |
Tuvix | I'm just reminded of a Dickens' opening line, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, …" | 02:06 |
de-facto | smoking peroxide? whats that? | 02:06 |
Tuvix | Possibly worse than just using leeches like they used to :P | 02:07 |
pwr22 | Sounds like something Trump would advocate | 02:07 |
pwr22 | I myself like a blend of peroxide with some ozone | 02:07 |
pwr22 | With just a touch of halon | 02:08 |
de-facto | lol what is peroxide? i guess not H2O2 | 02:08 |
pwr22 | 😉 | 02:08 |
pwr22 | There's a few compounds I remember with peroxide in the name but none of them are readily gas at room temperature | 02:09 |
LjL | pwr22, yeah ambivalent but while dissonant is less understandable unless i describe what i mean, i think it conveys the *feeling* i get more. when i focus on how things are being treated as abnormal and yet normal at the same time it feels like two dissonant notes are being played at the same time and i'm the only one who goes "hey don't you all hear this doesn't sound right?!" (not really the only one, of course i recognize that many here see this) | 02:10 |
LjL | strident, which is similar to dissonant? | 02:10 |
LjL | %w strident | 02:10 |
Brainstorm | LjL, strident — adjective: 1. Loud; shrill, piercing, high-pitched; rough-sounding, 2. Grating or obnoxious, 3. (nonstandard) Vigorous; making strides — noun: 1. (linguistics) One of a class of s-like fricatives produced by an airstream directed at the upper teeth → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strident | 02:10 |
LjL | no, not really similar | 02:10 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: a real doctor promotes it named dr mercola. needs his medical creds revoked | 02:10 |
rustynail1[m] | hydrogen peroxide | 02:11 |
rustynail1[m] | in a nebulizer | 02:11 |
de-facto | whoa | 02:11 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:11 |
Tuvix | Revoking medical licenses is very hard, especially in the US (if that's where you're based.) The system wasn't really designed for the level of willfil malpractice we see in some of this bad-medical advice. | 02:11 |
de-facto | that is crazy, its good for bleaching hairs, but it also bleaches tissue | 02:11 |
pwr22 | Hmm, if you boil it how much peroxide actually evaporates? | 02:11 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 02:11 |
Tuvix | Not just experimental, but I mean properly bad medical advice, and even when it happens it's _very_ hard to reovke licenses. A number of states have passed or have new bills coming up for vote that would make it even harder too. | 02:12 |
de-facto | i know that first hand, played with chemistry stuff, ahem, as a kid, and once i spilled H2O2 over my hands, they were bleached white for a few days | 02:12 |
rustynail1[m] | basically since we are not his patients we cannot do much prolly | 02:12 |
rustynail1[m] | he would probably have to literally prescribe it to get sanctioned | 02:12 |
Tuvix | Here's a good article on the anti-science being not only advocated by some doctors, but now made legal (or harder to be illegal at any rate): https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/state-legislators-dispense-with-standard-of-care-for-covid-treatment-and-encourage-medical-misinformation/ | 02:13 |
pwr22 | de-facto: what sort of concentration were you dealing with 😆 ? | 02:13 |
de-facto | 15% | 02:13 |
LjL | first thing i find if i google "peroxide covid" gives me "H2O2 as a mouthwash and nasal spray is safe to use. There is insufficient evidence to demonstrate that H2O2 is effective as an auxiliary treatment for hospitalized COVID-19 patients." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33957025/ | 02:13 |
de-facto | possibly 30% because i had to dilute it for what i was doing back then | 02:13 |
pwr22 | Ooooo, quite strong for a kid to be playing with 😀 | 02:13 |
pwr22 | lol | 02:13 |
de-facto | yeah | 02:13 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: yeah it is wild the way these doctors promote this stuff | 02:14 |
LjL | so from my cursory non-understanding of the issue, i guess maybe an appropriately diluted amount (meaning probably very small, after all when it's sold as disinfectant it's usually 3% iirc) of oxygen peroxide is at least not positively harmful? | 02:14 |
pwr22 | I mean it's probably not something you want up your nose | 02:14 |
pwr22 | or near any mucous membranes | 02:14 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], that study isn't really promoting it since it's saying there is insufficient evidence to justify its use... | 02:14 |
pwr22 | It's a strong oxidiser | 02:14 |
de-facto | it probably will kill more immune cells than virions, because those are much more sensitive to oxidative stress | 02:14 |
LjL | it just says that it is safe in whatever ways they used it in the study | 02:14 |
LjL | not15% for sure :P | 02:15 |
LjL | nor 30% | 02:15 |
LjL | but de-facto plays with fire | 02:15 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: i meant mercola and others | 02:15 |
de-facto | so if not worse, peroxide probably will even promote viral replication, because it ensures there are no functioning immune cells preventing viral replication | 02:15 |
pwr22 | I wouldn't put it up my nose, I wouldn't even want it on my hands or skin for a prolonged time at 1% | 02:15 |
de-facto | LjL, i dont wnat to give more details, for ... reasons :P | 02:15 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], do you know what concentration he proposes? | 02:15 |
LjL | *de-facto lawyers up* | 02:16 |
de-facto | hahaha :P | 02:16 |
LjL | de-facto, you have the right to remain silent. anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. | 02:16 |
rustynail1[m] | let me see if i can find it. he gets banned a lot lol | 02:16 |
rustynail1[m] | there was a video on youtube | 02:17 |
de-facto | yeah better dont link it though | 02:17 |
Tuvix | Psh, don't lawyer up, move to the US state of Tennessee where it's now more or less legal to promote or even perscribe unproven COVID-19 treatments! /s (protip: don't do that) | 02:17 |
de-facto | its not a meme we want to propagate, people may get harmed and more severe COVID from that etc | 02:17 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 02:17 |
rustynail1[m] | 🐻❤️ | 02:17 |
rustynail1[m] | not fit for bears | 02:17 |
Tuvix | There's plenty of misinformation going around already, but this is exactly why our politicians shouldn't get getting involved in the tasks medical review boards usually deal with. | 02:18 |
Tuvix | There's a reason we want a baseline level of *medical* skill to be on such boards. | 02:18 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah it is unreal the things people believe | 02:19 |
LjL | Tuvix, come to civilized Europe with all its institutionalized public medical treatment... and then realize homeopathy is institutionalized in a few of its countries too | 02:19 |
pwr22 | > One study found that only very low concentrations (0.03% solution, this is a dilution of typical 3% Peroxide by 100 times) may induce healing, and only if not applied repeatedly. A 0.5% solution was found to impede healing.[ | 02:19 |
pwr22 | Hmm yes, I don't think I'll be using this as an anti-septic either | 02:20 |
rustynail1[m] | 😂 | 02:20 |
pwr22 | That's about what I expected to be a safe level (was thinking 0.01% specifically) | 02:20 |
pwr22 | > Despite this, it is still used for wound treatment in many developing countries,[106][107] and, in the United States, is prevalent as a major first aid antiseptic. | 02:20 |
pwr22 | USA! USA! USA! | 02:21 |
Tuvix | So, extremely low-dose, and not over-applied. Somehow I don't think either is being observed with the DIY medical folks that got their information from youtube or podcsts… | 02:21 |
rustynail1[m] | pwr22: wouldnt that be hard for the average person to do seems like a lot of room for error | 02:21 |
pwr22 | jk | 02:21 |
rustynail1[m] | Tuvix: yeah prolly not my cousin uses it daily | 02:22 |
rustynail1[m] | along with other stuff. no vaccine tho | 02:22 |
pwr22 | Maybe what he bought is fake and hopefully just saline | 02:22 |
rustynail1[m] | they got it from the drug store :( | 02:23 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:23 |
rustynail1[m] | ☠️ | 02:23 |
LjL | pwr22, it's sold as a first aid antiseptic here too. once i had a thing on my foot and asked the pharmacy if hydrogen peroxide would be appropriate and they said, iirc, something like, no because it tends to close the wound, while we want to keep it open. so it may have some properties that are useful in some situations and less useful in others, i guess | 02:23 |
Tuvix | rustynail1[m]: Also note that the quote above is about healing, not about prevention against COVID. | 02:23 |
LjL | it definitely makes your finger look white if you keep contact with it for a bit too long :P | 02:23 |
rustynail1[m] | 😂 | 02:24 |
LjL | ultimately i guess all antiseptics are not antibiotics, they don't kill very selectively, so you'd expect them to kill your tissues too | 02:24 |
pwr22 | Tuvix: Yeah Tuvix is right there. I figure a mucous membrane probably behaves more like an open wound with exposure to it than regular skin though | 02:24 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah hopefully my family members who are doing it will be ok | 02:24 |
rustynail1[m] | not much i can do | 02:24 |
Tuvix | Yea, and they're what I use to clean wounds before drying them and _then_ putting on some antibiotic. I don't keep re-applying fairly harsh cleaning chemicals for my health. | 02:25 |
pwr22 | rustynail1: yes a bit of a crappy situation ☹️ | 02:25 |
Tuvix | (usually I don't even reach for chemicals, just soap & water, then dry & dress the wound. I only reach for chemicals if there's an obvious need) | 02:25 |
rustynail1[m] | Tuvix: yeah me too | 02:25 |
rustynail1[m] | i have luckily never had an infected wound as far as i remember | 02:27 |
rustynail1[m] | even when i did not wash | 02:28 |
rustynail1[m] | there have been times where i did not wash smaller wounds | 02:28 |
rustynail1[m] | probably not recommended tho | 02:28 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean i probably did at least wash them a bit in a shower i suppose | 02:29 |
Tuvix | I had a pretty nasty chunk of skin off the top of my foot some years back. It didn't require a hospital visit, but I had to twice-daily carefully remove the bandages, use some antiseptic cleaner, and re-apply antibiotic to promote healing. It didn't do any long-term damage but was very unpleasant and took several days to stop being fairly painful, and a couple weeks to heal fully. | 02:30 |
rustynail1[m] | i was drunk one time and fell on a stake and went to bed with an open wound not fully realizing it. im so lucky that did not get infected or continue bleeding a ton | 02:31 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺☠️ | 02:32 |
rustynail1[m] | it was a somewhat big laceration too not bad enough to need stiches but it left a big scar | 02:33 |
rustynail1[m] | it was dark and i did not realize someone had put up stakes in the yard | 02:33 |
rustynail1[m] | if it had been light out it prolly would have never happened | 02:34 |
rustynail1[m] | at least i did not fall and hit my head | 02:34 |
rustynail1[m] | cause i fell on a comcrete area after hitting the stake | 02:34 |
rustynail1[m] | i think alcohol can thin your blood too iirc could have been bad | 02:35 |
rustynail1[m] | i was young and had a super low tolerance | 02:36 |
LjL | i'd say "we all were there" but i guess i shouldn't really implicitly endorse dangerous behavior | 02:37 |
LjL | but many of use were there, bad as it may have been | 02:37 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 02:38 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️🐻 | 02:38 |
rustynail1[m] | i am a lot more careful now plus am more used to the effects | 02:40 |
rustynail1[m] | i went by the pharmacy today and they have huge boxes of n95 masks free. a bit too little too late at this point | 02:42 |
rustynail1[m] | the government sent me 4 test kits for my entire household | 02:42 |
rustynail1[m] | 🤔 | 02:42 |
Tuvix | Depends where in the US; some parts of the country are still very much in the middle of their Omicron waves. | 02:42 |
rustynail1[m] | it is better than nothing tho. | 02:42 |
Tuvix | The JHU daily video does a nice job of highlighting a few national metrics, and one of them shows the hotspots across the country. | 02:43 |
rustynail1[m] | i am glad i got my booster. big grizzly bear protection hopefully | 02:43 |
rustynail1[m] | 🐻 | 02:43 |
Tuvix | https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/covid-19-daily-video | 02:43 |
rustynail1[m] | i never had any side effects from any of pfizers doses luckily | 02:44 |
rustynail1[m] | wish i had gotten moderna but pfizers is not that much different | 02:45 |
Tuvix | I had just mild effects from 1 & 2 (Pfizer for all 3 here) but virtually nothing of note after the 3rd, just a mildly sore arm the next day. | 02:45 |
rustynail1[m] | i took what i could get right when i could get it. | 02:45 |
rustynail1[m] | i was not about to wait around being choosy | 02:46 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah i only had mild sore arm for all three | 02:46 |
rustynail1[m] | my household got covid and i may have gotten it but it was just a very mild sore throat that went away after drinking water thru the day. i kept testing negative on rapid tests where everyone else was positive | 02:48 |
rustynail1[m] | i had such mild symptoms a intranasal PCR would have been too much pain to go thru for what i was feeling | 02:49 |
rustynail1[m] | the swap up my nose would have been worse then the mild soreness in my throat | 02:49 |
rustynail1[m] | i teared up from the one that barley even goes up your nose | 02:50 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:50 |
rustynail1[m] | like that | 02:50 |
rustynail1[m] | it tickled and made me sneeze a few times. i had no desire to get the deep one | 02:51 |
rustynail1[m] | i was boosted and everyone else was not yet | 02:51 |
rustynail1[m] | i tested negative twice on abbot antigrn test | 02:51 |
rustynail1[m] | nasty ole stick up the nose | 02:53 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 02:53 |
Tuvix | I got a PCR test early 2021 when I felt a bit off, but it wasn't COVID. It depends on who does the test, but they don't really need to go that far for the swap to be reliable. | 02:53 |
Tuvix | Not all nurses are as skilled as others though, same as any other profession. | 02:53 |
rustynail1[m] | Tuvix: yeah i have seen some people swab really easily and others where they felt like it was jammed up there | 02:54 |
rustynail1[m] | plus it was not like there was anything they would do for a case of covid so mild that my sore throat goes away when i drink water | 02:55 |
de-facto | iirc Omicron may have higher concentrations in the throat at some time, probably depending how the initial contamination happened, but also on the tissue in nose and pharynx | 02:56 |
rustynail1[m] | it would come back in the morning but basically i just had to keep drinking water. i got a gagging sensation a few times due to the feeling in my throat but that is not that abnormal for me when my throat is dehydrated | 02:56 |
de-facto | so possibly a gargling test or a real pharyngeal-nasal swab may have higher predictive accuracy than only a "convenient" swap not too deep in the nose (it may lead to a false negative) | 02:57 |
rustynail1[m] | my other family members are still feeling fatigue from covid | 02:57 |
rustynail1[m] | a family friend was on ventilater for like 40 days and still has issues. a cousin has permanent taste dysfunction | 02:58 |
de-facto | oh wow | 02:58 |
de-facto | from Omicron that circulates right now? | 02:58 |
rustynail1[m] | the cousin says water tastes like spoiled milk | 02:58 |
rustynail1[m] | she has no pleasure from food anymore | 02:58 |
rustynail1[m] | i think she got it earlier maybe delta | 02:59 |
de-facto | yeah before the current wave it may have been Delta | 02:59 |
de-facto | depending on the contamination date | 02:59 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean hopefully it is not permanent but it is not going away for her and it has been a year or so | 02:59 |
de-facto | yeah it may take some time to recover the nerve cells | 02:59 |
de-facto | they grow very very slowly only | 02:59 |
xx | anal swabs when? | 03:00 |
de-facto | lol whut? | 03:00 |
rustynail1[m] | that would be horrible to have taste become bad where she can only enjoy limited food now | 03:00 |
Tuvix | Smell is a big part of taste, so the change in how foods taste could well be related, at least in decent part, to the traditional loss of smell. | 03:00 |
rustynail1[m] | it would have to be a total chore to eat ugh. i would prolly try to consume mostly protein shakes for a bit if that happened to me and maybe try some solid foods when i could | 03:01 |
rustynail1[m] | i went thru a time where i had neurological problems and trouble swallowing so i had to consume mostly protein shakes with like peanut butter and kale stuff like that because i was rapidly losing weight because it was a chore to eat because i was afraid | 03:02 |
de-facto | a friend got it in the Delta wave, i think like 3-4 months after completing the 2nd mRNA vaccination, only hat mild symptoms but also lost smell/taste completely, i think she said it took more than a month to come back, and at first it was even more intense (maybe because she was not used to that sense anymore, maybe because new cells were more sensitive at first) | 03:02 |
Tuvix | You mentioned some folks around your area or that you know are engaging in various unfounded prevention measures; are they at least vaccinated with 2-doses as well? | 03:02 |
rustynail1[m] | Tuvix: no | 03:03 |
rustynail1[m] | i live in a heavy anti vax area | 03:03 |
de-facto | ooff | 03:03 |
rustynail1[m] | ivermection is everywhere here | 03:03 |
rustynail1[m] | doctors promoting it | 03:03 |
rustynail1[m] | ERs | 03:03 |
xx | at least there are fewer parasites then | 03:03 |
rustynail1[m] | i do not feel safe anymore living here medically | 03:04 |
Tuvix | I mean, I have some new parts of my routine that I also do to help cut down on COVID spread, like being extra careful to wash my hands when I get home, and again after I unload any groceries or such, but I don't do those things _instead_ of vaccination; I do them in _addition_ | 03:04 |
rustynail1[m] | my biggest fear now is that i become incapacitated and some quack prescribes hydroxychloquine | 03:05 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], write down a medical will | 03:05 |
rustynail1[m] | 🤔 | 03:05 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah i guess i could do that i never knew they existed | 03:05 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean i knew about do not resistate etc | 03:06 |
Tuvix | They're usually called "living wills" | 03:06 |
rustynail1[m] | DNRs | 03:06 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], the rules around them vary by place. but it probably can't *hurt*, legally, to have it written down. | 03:06 |
rustynail1[m] | oh ok | 03:06 |
LjL | worse case it may be disregarded, which is what you feared would happen anyway | 03:06 |
LjL | worst* | 03:06 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah. | 03:06 |
rustynail1[m] | it is hard living in the south | 03:07 |
rustynail1[m] | 🤬 | 03:07 |
rustynail1[m] | if i could leave i would. i feel safer in a place like Oregon that has assisted suicide if i am terminal and is way ahead of the game on various patient rights | 03:08 |
xx | +1 for assisted suicide laws | 03:09 |
LjL | i live in a country where a few doctors still think that "pain is part of the process" and won't prescribe enough morphine or similar even to terminal patients | 03:09 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah we are like that in the US due to the sackler family | 03:09 |
LjL | or in other situations that i won't mention | 03:09 |
rustynail1[m] | the war on drugs nonsense | 03:09 |
xx | always makes me wonder about the people who say "trust your doctor" | 03:09 |
xx | lots of doctors are quacks | 03:10 |
xx | and not the good kind of quack | 03:10 |
rustynail1[m] | i had to use kratom for my pain | 03:10 |
xx | \_o< quack! | 03:10 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], well i'm sure there *is* an abuse of painkillers and opioids and stuff, that should also be considered | 03:10 |
LjL | but... | 03:10 |
rustynail1[m] | there are tons of chronic pain patients suffering here who now use heroin | 03:10 |
LjL | i don't know, one thing is being mindful of overmedication, another is having religion-inspired ideas on suffering being part of the process you have to go through | 03:11 |
rustynail1[m] | im just lucky i knew about kratom | 03:11 |
rustynail1[m] | kratom is not ideal it tastes horrible and lasts only a short time but was better than suicide due to pain | 03:11 |
rustynail1[m] | they are trying to ban kratom too | 03:12 |
rustynail1[m] | it is evil. the war on drugs is evil | 03:13 |
rustynail1[m] | glad we have the internet now | 03:13 |
rustynail1[m] | i was completely abadened by the medical doctors supposed to help me. i had to do all the research on my own | 03:14 |
rustynail1[m] | i went thru years of suffering due to the drug war and doctors not wanting to lose their liscence | 03:14 |
Tuvix | I'm generally against taking any medication I don't need, but I also got a first-hand experience to the value of pain-killers; I had all 4 of my 3rd molars (wisdom teeth) out at once, as 1 was likely to cause me problems later in life. After the local wore of, the pain was substantial. | 03:14 |
rustynail1[m] | i had to source things myself for a while | 03:15 |
Tuvix | The first 2 nights I may not have been able to sleep easily without the maximum dose I was allowed, and I timed it just before bed. After 2 nights I was down to a half-dose, and 4 days in (less than half my supply) I cut myself of. It still hurt a bit, but managable. | 03:15 |
rustynail1[m] | plus i was terrified i had AS. i have other autoimmune problems and was having severe SI joint pain | 03:15 |
LjL | i had 3 of my wisdom teeth extracted, and the fourth i was just like "please no, not another" | 03:16 |
Tuvix | Oh, they knocked me out for that. | 03:16 |
rustynail1[m] | i never got wisdom teeth. they never came in for some reason | 03:16 |
Tuvix | I had the option to just get a local each extraction, but happily elected to be put under. One of the 4 coming out was not only fully in the gums, but rotated sideways. | 03:16 |
Tuvix | The tricky one they had to break into parts to remove, and I was quite happy not to be aware of any of it. | 03:17 |
rustynail1[m] | one guy i know they had to break his jaw or something to fix his wisdom teeth. it was apparently pretty intense because he had to be awake because he had no ride home | 03:18 |
LjL | Tuvix, there's a difference with the way we do things in dentistry, you'll almost never be put under here, i think my dentist has just about started using nitrous oxide on select patients with particular needs | 03:18 |
LjL | i definitely had a tooth being broken into parts while being fully aware of it ;( | 03:18 |
rustynail1[m] | wow | 03:18 |
LjL | it's not the best | 03:18 |
rustynail1[m] | that is crazy | 03:18 |
LjL | no, it's not very crazy | 03:18 |
LjL | you have a local anesthetic and you don't really feel much pain, you mostly have "bad mental images" and feel the mechanical unpleasantness | 03:19 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 03:19 |
LjL | on the flipside of the coin, you are spared from the risks of being "put under", which, however small, are always there | 03:19 |
Tuvix | Most dental work that's not an option, but the 3rd molars was an exception at the clinic I went to. That clinic is also more on the modern edge of science, and is in part staffed by students for some of the more basic dental work. | 03:19 |
LjL | i'm not saying you *shouldn't* be put under, either | 03:19 |
LjL | i'm saying the way we do things here just sounds "crazy" to you as a knee-jerk reaction to it being different from the way they do them where you are | 03:20 |
rustynail1[m] | why do they want people in pain? | 03:20 |
Tuvix | WIth a local there's not really any pain. | 03:20 |
LjL | to me it initially sounded crazy that you'd be put under for dental things in America. i was like "wow, what do they mean, full anesthesia? my grandma went senile from repeated doses of that, i don't wanna" | 03:20 |
rustynail1[m] | or suffering mentally? | 03:20 |
Tuvix | Not until after it wears off anyway. | 03:20 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], i am in fact trying to explain why there are pros and cons to both. | 03:21 |
LjL | i don't think they "want people in pain" in this case, not any dentist i've known. | 03:21 |
rustynail1[m] | i was speaking in the context where you said pain is part of the process due to religion | 03:21 |
Tuvix | I was actually once given an extra dose of just a simple local into my gums, becuase the feeling was just starting to come back as they were still working, so they gave me a bit more. | 03:22 |
Tuvix | I really wish I'd known how close they were to being done, becuase it didn't wear off for over an hour after I had left the clinic :\ | 03:22 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], that's another matter, not about dentistry, but more about treatment of chronic pain, terminal patients, and childbirth (cue for...). at a guess, i wouldn't say it's directly *from* religion except for a small amount of doctors, but it's *influenced* by a culture that stems from religious belief on man's suffering | 03:23 |
Tuvix | In that case, a bit of *mild* pain (not severe obviously) might have been preferred, but whatever, my lips & gums eventually got their feeling returned shortly after I had taken the train home. | 03:23 |
xx | LjL: did someone say childbirth? | 03:23 |
xx | :D | 03:23 |
LjL | xx, i'm making faces but you can't see me | 03:23 |
rustynail1[m] | chronic pain can destroy your mental state | 03:23 |
xx | >:( | 03:24 |
xx | probably | 03:24 |
rustynail1[m] | there were times where i felt like i had no opgions | 03:24 |
rustynail1[m] | s/opgions/options/ | 03:24 |
xx | though to be fair, every male doctor I've ever interacted with did not take women talking about pain seriously | 03:24 |
LjL | xx, a complex mixture of 🙄😆🧐😠 | 03:25 |
rustynail1[m] | i have been sexually harassed by doctors, had them not take pain seriously, have them make fun of disabilitys i have in front of students, had them be neglectful not doing lab work like they are required for certain drugs. it is unreal | 03:25 |
xx | not an expert on this, but I've heard of some doctors being happy about women in pain due to some religious nonsense about some sin caused by women | 03:25 |
rustynail1[m] | it is unreal the way some doctors get away with things. | 03:26 |
LjL | xx, i've definitely heard other women complaining that doctors, at least male ones i suppose, have an annoying tendency to think that male feeling pain equals pain, while female feeling pain equals whining. but hey, people like me who're whining all the time should help reset that balance ;P | 03:26 |
xx | yeah and people keep telling me how doctors respect ethics and oaths... | 03:26 |
rustynail1[m] | i wish pharmacists were far far more involved in the process | 03:27 |
rustynail1[m] | pharmacists need way more freedom than they currently have | 03:27 |
xx | people need more freedom to just order stuff online | 03:27 |
LjL | well, my pharmacy happily recommends homeopathy, so i'm not so sure | 03:27 |
LjL | people are people | 03:28 |
xx | why can't I order aspirin online in most countries? | 03:28 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: that too | 03:28 |
rustynail1[m] | i should at least be able to buy codeine for pain | 03:28 |
xx | codeine used to be prescription-free in many places | 03:28 |
xx | but then they started turning it to meth? or something | 03:28 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 03:28 |
rustynail1[m] | war on drugs ruined that | 03:29 |
rustynail1[m] | its about racism mostly tbh | 03:29 |
rustynail1[m] | not science | 03:29 |
xx | war on drugs exists in countries that only have a single race too | 03:29 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ Open: Fear of cancer recurrence in peritoneal malignancy patients following complete cytoreductive surgery (CCRS) and hyperthermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy (HIPEC): an observational study protocol: Introduction Fear of cancer recurrence (FCR) is correlated with higher depression levels, worse quality of [... want %more?] → http://bmjopen.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/12/2/e057294 | 03:29 |
rustynail1[m] | the US is a big part of that tho | 03:29 |
rustynail1[m] | with the single convention on drugs treaty | 03:30 |
xx | US and EU | 03:30 |
xx | US + EU + commonwealth | 03:30 |
rustynail1[m] | the US influenced others to sign on to the un treaty | 03:30 |
LjL | xx, uh? what's "a single race" to do with it? and also, iirc, the treaties mainly involved were signed by virtually every country | 03:30 |
rustynail1[m] | the single convention on drugs treaty | 03:30 |
LjL | hardly just US + EU + commonwealth although that does include a lot of countries already | 03:30 |
rustynail1[m] | the US has a ton of influence tho. | 03:31 |
rustynail1[m] | just as an example. if you get blacklisted from US banks you get blacklisted from most world banks. when the US put sanctions on carrie lam of hong kong she lost all her assets outside china | 03:32 |
LjL | xx, and, counterexamples: "Some of the most severe penalties for drug trafficking are handed down in certain Asian countries, such as Malaysia, which mandate capital punishment for offenses involving amounts over a certain threshold. Singapore mandates the death penalty for trafficking in 15 g (half an ounce) of heroin, 30 g of cocaine or 500 g of cannabis." | 03:32 |
LjL | these countries are not at all single-race | 03:32 |
LjL | and yet they have some of the strictest penalties for drug use/trafficking | 03:32 |
rustynail1[m] | carrie lam will not be able to function outside china until the US says so | 03:32 |
rustynail1[m] | all these countries started the war on drugs in roughly the same time period too. | 03:33 |
xx | LjL: it was the comment about war on drugs being a race thing | 03:33 |
LjL | Taiwan also has the death penalty among countries that spring to mind, and they have multiple ethnicities although i guess it's mostly Han Chinese really (i'm not particularly comfortable with the concept of "race" in the first place, so whatever you mean by that, i'll handwave it into ethnicities or something less but more definite :P) | 03:33 |
LjL | xx, oh | 03:34 |
LjL | xx, i missed that and instead i thought you were saying the opposite, i.e. that it's a thing that *only* occurs in single-race countries | 03:34 |
LjL | nevermind then | 03:34 |
rustynail1[m] | it is not always race based but it def is in the US and they spread this ideology elsewhere | 03:34 |
xx | dunno, there were laws against drugs in many places even before US was discovered | 03:35 |
LjL | xx, hmm, wasn't it mainly alcohol, which ironically is the one that's largely allowed by the UN treaties etc? :P | 03:35 |
rustynail1[m] | nixon hated blacks and wanted a way to arrest people without charging them for being black. he knew that blacks and whites used drugs at the same rate but also knew that functionally it would not hurt whites as much | 03:36 |
xx | LjL: yeah alcohol too. Horrible stuff, can't believe it's legal. Also makes for worse covid outcomes. | 03:36 |
LjL | i think err maybe we should go back to the bleak topic of COVID or similar a little bit, before we stray *too* far into unrelated politics, maybe :x | 03:36 |
LjL | xx, it's definitely... well... it's tricky, what with the really bad therapeutic ratio... i can't think clearly about it... let me grab some limoncello | 03:37 |
rustynail1[m] | well i mean no one shoould be arrested for what they do with their own bodies. we do not arrest type 2 diabetics even tho they caused it on themselves in many cases | 03:37 |
xx | heh | 03:37 |
xx | so to bring it more on topic, anyone aware of any studies on covid outcomes for various drug users? | 03:38 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: depends on the drug | 03:38 |
LjL | %papers outcomes drug users | 03:38 |
Brainstorm | LjL, 10 results out of 45006: Central Public Health Interventions Responsive Studies Team (PHIRST): Evaluation of the move to remote models of service delivery by drug and alcohol services in Leeds during the COVID-19 pandemic (Leeds COVID-19 DASE Project), dated 2021-09-09 → https://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN50804656 [... want %more?] | 03:38 |
xx | I can't remember reading anything about it | 03:38 |
LjL | Brainstorm, you useless piece of 2008 hardware | 03:39 |
Brainstorm | LjL: heh, the solution to covid, rather than a piece of paper showing some vaccination status, so someone could ctcp version the whole situation in USA, but to not have to pay the bills | 03:39 |
xx | well, the problem is the word 'drug' in this context | 03:39 |
xx | maybe 'narcotic' but that's not used often either | 03:39 |
LjL | xx, no, if it's between the problem being me being unclear and the other party (bot or person) misinterpreting, it has to be the other party, because i'm a man, and as such can't be wrong. or admit to being wrong, anyway. | 03:40 |
rustynail1[m] | i highly doupt a mushroom user will see any different health outcomes for example | 03:41 |
rustynail1[m] | alcohol definetly worsens outcomes | 03:41 |
rustynail1[m] | tobacco | 03:41 |
rustynail1[m] | people who smoke drugs have worse outcomes generally | 03:41 |
LjL | alcohol and tobacco, though, i do know we have studies covering those | 03:42 |
LjL | but i'm not sure about illicit drugs. harder to make studies on them... | 03:42 |
rustynail1[m] | but most illegal drugs are not as toxic as drug propagandists claim | 03:42 |
xx | yeah, but the adulterants might be | 03:43 |
blueberrycrop | I did one of those covid tests twice, and results came back negative for me... but the rest of my family has COVID | 03:43 |
blueberrycrop | I think I could be immune | 03:43 |
xx | or it's just too early to tell | 03:43 |
blueberrycrop | how so? | 03:43 |
de-facto | well many substances such as drugs may cause some harm on the immune system on cellular level, especially if illegal drugs contain a lot of additional substances that may cause even more harm than the original substance would have | 03:43 |
xx | blueberrycrop: you'd need to provide more context | 03:44 |
xx | how long ago since contact with an infected person? | 03:44 |
LjL | i'm finding some things on the effects *of COVID-19* in management of substance abuse or the phenomenon itself | 03:44 |
blueberrycrop | well... I live with my Mom, as well as my nieces and nephew. | 03:44 |
blueberrycrop | They all tested positive | 03:44 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: hopefully we are moving towards a regulated market | 03:44 |
LjL | de-facto, that is often used as an argument to make them stop being illegal... | 03:45 |
rustynail1[m] | i think we will see it in our lifetime | 03:45 |
de-facto | many immune system cells react extremely sensitive to chemical substances and oxidative stress, so they will be the first affected by the presence of chemical substances alien to human biology (and their decay chains) | 03:45 |
rustynail1[m] | that is why for example the swiss use heroin assisted treatment | 03:45 |
rustynail1[m] | you have a clean supply from the swiss pharmacy | 03:46 |
de-facto | btw that also is the reason the immune system probably will get strengthened by antioxidant rich diets etc | 03:46 |
de-facto | raw unprocessed food like fresh vegetables and fruits, berries, green tea etc pp | 03:47 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah | 03:47 |
rustynail1[m] | supplements do not really work well. need other micronutrients in the actual veggies | 03:47 |
LjL | xx, PSA, just read the state department said Americans should "leave Belarus immediately", although i'm reading it on somewhat meh sources. i also saw Russia had military deployments in Moldova. | 03:48 |
xx | LjL: that was yesterday | 03:48 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: yeah things are getting bad | 03:48 |
rustynail1[m] | scary | 03:48 |
rustynail1[m] | 🐻❤️ | 03:48 |
xx | and yeah, I'm a straight line between the moldova deployment and ukraine border | 03:48 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 03:48 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], can i ask you to avoid the emoji-on-its-own-line stuff? on Matrix they take up a lot of space, and on IRC people are kind of not used to having a ton of them and multiple lines are disruptive. just use them sparingly on the same line as the rest of what you're saying please ;P | 03:49 |
rustynail1[m] | ok | 03:49 |
LjL | thanks | 03:49 |
xx | the 🦇 should be banned in here anyway | 03:49 |
de-facto | so it goes in both directions, hence i would aim to prevent harmful substances (such as alcohol, drugs, especially on the lungs by smoking etc) and also try to get a diversified diet with a lot of natural sources for antioxidants, but also not completely exaggerate that (e.g. by supplements or such) because a *bit* of oxidative stress may also be required for killing cancer cells etc | 03:49 |
xx | LjL: isn't the matrix bridge down all the time anyway? | 03:50 |
de-facto | so i would try to stick to natural food sources for such antioxidants, because then they come in the form we (and our microbiome) evolved to process them for millions of years | 03:50 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: i read recently there was a study about alcohol specifically weakening lungs immune function i will have to see if i can find it | 03:51 |
LjL | xx, not right now for sure, since that's where rustynail1[m] is hailing from... | 03:51 |
de-facto | yeah it probably has something to do with its decay path in the human body i would assume | 03:51 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean alcohol is pretty well known to damage most organs so it is not that shocking | 03:51 |
de-facto | alcohol can be quite harmful at some threshold concentration | 03:51 |
xx | plus, you know, liver damage not exactly being condusive to any sort of good health outcomes | 03:52 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah people tend to think of the liver wirh alcohol but heart disease is huge in alcoholics | 03:52 |
de-facto | unspecifically killing cells in general | 03:52 |
xx | it's a solvent | 03:52 |
de-facto | yet does not solve all problems | 03:53 |
rustynail1[m] | a cousin died at 30 from alcohol related stroke | 03:53 |
de-facto | ouch sorry to hear | 03:53 |
LjL | one of my cousins is an alcoholic :( | 03:53 |
LjL | and she's around 30 | 03:53 |
rustynail1[m] | i drink too much myself. i am trying to cut down. i am having side effects from other medications and stress from covid. i started drinking daily during covid sadly | 03:53 |
xx | combining alcohol and medications? | 03:54 |
de-facto | wow you should try to replace it with some other (more healthy) habit somehow | 03:54 |
xx | even if they are deemed "compatible", it's still a shit idea | 03:54 |
rustynail1[m] | i have side effects from medications that have caused me to lose all impulse control | 03:54 |
xx | that sounds dangerous | 03:54 |
rustynail1[m] | but without them i am unable to function | 03:55 |
rustynail1[m] | i am splitting my dose in half of paroxetine | 03:55 |
rustynail1[m] | maybe that will help | 03:55 |
rustynail1[m] | i need it tho for OCD. i lost the ability to walk from OCD it got that bad | 03:56 |
rustynail1[m] | now i am stuck in a place where i feel constant inner restlessness from the paroxetine but if i stop it i might not be able to walk | 03:56 |
rustynail1[m] | it is very scary | 03:57 |
xx | nasty stuff indeed | 03:57 |
rustynail1[m] | and overwhelming chronic pain at times with no help or end in sight | 03:57 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], is it the only thing you've tried? not necessarily wanting you to go on the try-every-possible-med treadmill, but have you talked to your psychiatrist about the restlessness it causes and the way it bothers you? | 03:57 |
xx | but definitely something you should not combine with alcohol | 03:57 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: not really. there is not much they can do besides i do not fully trust them. i have literally had to navigate this entire battle by myself. i was the one who suggested the paroxetine in the first place because fluoxetine caused me to nearly kill myself due to insomnisa | 03:59 |
rustynail1[m] | paroxetine is supposed to cause less insomnia which it did help tbh | 03:59 |
de-facto | idk what to say, i personally always was a fan of "as little as possible", so i ended up refusing (admittedly minor) medications per default, yet there are of course cases where medications are required. If given the choice i would always try to not get used to any substance (hence also avoid any possible dependence on it) | 03:59 |
rustynail1[m] | but now i think it is interfering with my ability to feel pleasure in life. | 04:00 |
rustynail1[m] | but i was unable to walk | 04:00 |
rustynail1[m] | i literally thought i was about to die every second of every day if i walked and fell and hit my head | 04:01 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], ultimately none of those things are free from unpleasant drawbacks i guess | 04:01 |
xx | There's supposed to be pleasure in life? | 04:01 |
rustynail1[m] | it is called persistent perceptual postural dizziness a condition related to OCD | 04:01 |
LjL | xx, "supposed" is a strong word, but i can vouch that i've met people whose interpersonal communications i interpret as them feeling some pleasure in life | 04:01 |
rustynail1[m] | rustynail1[m]: i had to use a walker for a while | 04:02 |
xx | LjL: people fake all sorts of stuff. Nobody on social media experiences pleasure, despite what it may look like for example. | 04:02 |
LjL | xx, i'm not talking about random people on social media, i'm talking about people i interact with on a personal level | 04:02 |
rustynail1[m] | https://vestibular.org/article/diagnosis-treatment/types-of-vestibular-disorders/persistent-postural-perceptual-dizziness/ | 04:03 |
LjL | pleasure is not all they feel, of course | 04:03 |
LjL | pain and depression and anxiety also occur | 04:03 |
de-facto | i think humans in general are a very adaptive species, hence probably can adapt to almost any circumstance, yet of course circumstances will have impact on how people feel, so that probably can be used for creating positive impact, creating circumstances (and challenges) that lead to a more satisfied mental state without depending on chemistry for that too much | 04:03 |
xx | LjL: a person I've interacted with daily and looked the happiest ever jumped under the train too | 04:03 |
xx | can't ever tell if someone else is happy or experiences pleasure | 04:04 |
LjL | de-facto, if your problem is "unable to walk", the physical circumstances that fixes that is "lie in bed all day", which is by no means ideal | 04:04 |
xx | though the weirdest thing was that they did it *after* they got promoted... | 04:04 |
xx | never understood it and can only guess | 04:04 |
LjL | xx, fair enough, but do you know that they weren't actually "happy" to some extent and it was the suicide that was a "fluke"? (one you can't recover from of course) | 04:05 |
rustynail1[m] | the main treatment for PPPD is SSRIs and therapy | 04:05 |
rustynail1[m] | the SSRIs helped but they cause this blunting of my ability to take any pleasure in things besides extreme rushes like excessive drinking | 04:06 |
xx | LjL: he was a family man, with a happy wife and kids, perfect work record, never looked overworked and always spread cheer around. | 04:06 |
xx | the human condition is flawed | 04:06 |
rustynail1[m] | and akathesia | 04:06 |
rustynail1[m] | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia | 04:06 |
LjL | xx, so yes you're right ultimately i can't *know*, but i pretty much base my rational outlook on life (as opposed to the non-rational part which probably dominates by far) on the idea that i am a being with thoughts and feeling, and i can't know if others also are and even if they are, whether their thoughts and feelings are comparable, but since from outside we behave in comparable ways (unlike a rock or a flower), it's reasonable to tentatively assume that they | 04:06 |
LjL | are similar to me in those inner respects too | 04:06 |
LjL | and by tentatively i mean... forever | 04:06 |
xx | kinda sucks that I was the one who pushed for him to be promoted because we didn't want him to consider leaving the company | 04:07 |
rustynail1[m] | i am trying to cut down on the alcohol. i drink about ten 14 gram doses a day | 04:07 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: that's like a shot a day :-\ | 04:07 |
LjL | xx, that's unfortunate, but for all you know it may have happened anyway | 04:07 |
rustynail1[m] | not its not | 04:08 |
rustynail1[m] | im talking 14 grams of pure ethanol | 04:08 |
xx | no wait, *ten* 14g doeses? That's 5 shots | 04:08 |
xx | that's... really not good | 04:08 |
rustynail1[m] | ten standard drinks | 04:08 |
LjL | that's alcoholism | 04:08 |
rustynail1[m] | its ten shots | 04:08 |
LjL | i just had a shot glass of limoncello, and i have one every day, and that's not good, but i do it anyway. but ten | 04:08 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Hong Kong "overwhelmed" as COVID infections hit record → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/ssspe7/hong_kong_overwhelmed_as_covid_infections_hit/ | 04:08 |
rustynail1[m] | a dose of ethanol here is 14 grams of pure ethanol | 04:08 |
de-facto | can you slowly dilute the concentration, ramping it down over time? | 04:09 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: well im trying to get to 8 | 04:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Solomon Is.: +338 cases, +3 deaths since a day ago — United Kingdom: +1163 cases, +3 deaths since 3 hours ago | 04:09 |
rustynail1[m] | then 5 or 6 | 04:09 |
de-facto | well that or just mix more and more water in | 04:09 |
LjL | my limoncello shot always makes me hungry... at 4am ;( | 04:10 |
de-facto | and maybe try to replace it with some positive habit if you can | 04:10 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: well i mean i am not having withdrawal symtoms at least i am working on it but yeah im not just going to quit out of nowhere i am using harm reduction | 04:10 |
rustynail1[m] | i just have no one | 04:10 |
LjL | de-facto, like the mints i compulsively eat instead of smoking? ;P | 04:10 |
xx | LjL: isn't that you being dehydrated and confusing it for hunger? | 04:10 |
de-facto | yes LjL exactly | 04:10 |
LjL | xx, i suspect not, i just had some 300ml of herbal tea before the drink, but since hydration is the go-to of every doctor ever, i guess i'll drink another 300ml of random lukewarm water and let you know | 04:11 |
rustynail1[m] | i do not know what to do. maybe cutting from 20 mg to 10 mg of paroxetine will reduce the feelings i have that cause me to drink to get rid of the side effects | 04:11 |
rustynail1[m] | i am miserable | 04:11 |
rustynail1[m] | but i do not want to end up not being able to walk again | 04:12 |
rustynail1[m] | plus i have no real pain relief besides this like i said | 04:12 |
rustynail1[m] | the US undertreats pain | 04:12 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], it would seem somewhat reasonable to me to reduce the paroxetine until the symptom comes back (hopefully not as strongly) and then keep it just above that point. but i'm not a doctor, and while i understand that you may not particularly trust your doctor, if you examine such a strategy, you should examine it with them | 04:13 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: yeah i am going to try the 10 mg for a while | 04:14 |
rustynail1[m] | i am trying to drink calming tea in between drinks. like sleepy tea like chamomile | 04:15 |
rustynail1[m] | to sorta cut down | 04:15 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: doctors do not know either | 04:16 |
rustynail1[m] | we do not even know why SSRIs work fully | 04:16 |
de-facto | i mean how can you know that one problem you experience is not caused by one substance you take hence require treatment by another and so on? Like Elvis Presley etc. Maybe the generic aim of reducing doses may enable the body to find more balance on its own regulation processes | 04:16 |
rustynail1[m] | a doctor is not going to help any better than reading medical literature tbh | 04:16 |
de-facto | and good foods, mobility etc, if you can approach that as strategy with your MD | 04:17 |
LjL | rustynail1[m], are you sure you can read medical literature with the required objectiveness while you're on paroxetine and 10 drinks a day, and scared to death that you may stop being able to walk again? | 04:17 |
rustynail1[m] | plus i have a fairly obscure manifestation of OCD | 04:17 |
LjL | i say this only partly because the doctor "knows better" about the medications, but also because the doctor is a third party to this | 04:18 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Vaccine scientists have been chasing variants. Now, they’re seeking a universal coronavirus vaccine. → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/sssw9f/vaccine_scientists_have_been_chasing_variants_now/ | 04:18 |
LjL | (or i guess a second party would be a more appropriate term here) | 04:18 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: i mostly drink in the evening | 04:18 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: beware, a sudden decrease 20mg -> 10mg *will* have dangerous side effects | 04:18 |
xx | you really wanted to taper off SSRIs to lower doses | 04:19 |
LjL | yeah, that's also why i was suggesting talking to you doctor, they should know what an appropriate taper-off is | 04:19 |
xx | not make jumps | 04:19 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: ill be fine | 04:19 |
xx | LjL: yeah, doctors won't really know | 04:19 |
rustynail1[m] | 20mg to 10 mg is not a huge jump. | 04:19 |
xx | it's half | 04:19 |
xx | that's a big deal | 04:19 |
rustynail1[m] | it cannot reliably split it into any less than that anyway tho | 04:20 |
LjL | don't they sell other dosages? | 04:20 |
xx | I know some taper protocols do stuff like 20mg 10mg 20mg 20mg 10mg ... | 04:20 |
LjL | also there are pill cutters that can cut most things into 4 parts at least | 04:20 |
rustynail1[m] | they sell 10 mg and 20 mg and up ive never been on anything other than 20 | 04:21 |
xx | but you'd need to look it up | 04:21 |
LjL | well if they sell 10mg you can easily get 10+5, unless the pill is coated and must not be split | 04:21 |
rustynail1[m] | it goes like 10 mg to 20 mg to 40 mg | 04:21 |
rustynail1[m] | i am cutting from 20 to 10 | 04:21 |
LjL | well, i can't stop you | 04:22 |
xx | well, it's voluntary | 04:22 |
LjL | i can only point out that your doctor can't stop you either, so by talking to your doctor, you don't really lose anything | 04:22 |
xx | but the effects for someone who doesn't have liver in perfect conditions can be unpredictable | 04:22 |
rustynail1[m] | i get what your saying but i have went a few days with nothing and no issues | 04:22 |
rustynail1[m] | i am young | 04:22 |
rustynail1[m] | i have not been drinking daily long | 04:22 |
xx | none of those "brain jolts"? | 04:22 |
rustynail1[m] | i had blood work not that long ago | 04:23 |
rustynail1[m] | no brain jolts no | 04:23 |
xx | (there's a better term for it but I can't remember it) | 04:23 |
de-facto | just speak with your MD about your strategy, even if its only on the phone or such, because as LjL said its a third perspective on it (with some background of experience) | 04:23 |
rustynail1[m] | my blood pressure is a little high but my ALT etc is fine | 04:23 |
rustynail1[m] | ok | 04:23 |
rustynail1[m] | my blood sugar is fine | 04:24 |
xx | anyway, they did show some beneficial effects of sertraline (zoloft, a SSRI) on covid outcomes, but it was still only initial stages | 04:24 |
rustynail1[m] | well i am boosted too | 04:24 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️ | 04:24 |
de-facto | nice | 04:24 |
rustynail1[m] | but obviously you guys are right i do not want it to get worse | 04:25 |
rustynail1[m] | my blood pressure is high | 04:25 |
rustynail1[m] | well a bit elevated. pre hypertension levels . | 04:25 |
rustynail1[m] | i do not smoke tobacco at least | 04:26 |
de-facto | me too | 04:26 |
de-facto | elevated BP | 04:26 |
de-facto | i just ignore it | 04:26 |
rustynail1[m] | well i am in my mid 20s i have time to fix this | 04:27 |
rustynail1[m] | but i need to fix it now | 04:27 |
de-facto | 145/80 | 04:27 |
rustynail1[m] | alcohol causes heart disease and cancer | 04:27 |
rustynail1[m] | pancreatitis | 04:27 |
LjL | de-facto, the systolic there is fairly high... | 04:27 |
LjL | also the pulse pressure | 04:28 |
de-facto | yeah my normal value | 04:28 |
de-facto | its like that with me, always | 04:28 |
* de-facto shruggs | 04:28 | |
de-facto | i feel fine though, wont take any meds for that | 04:28 |
de-facto | i should do sports though, i am just too lazy | 04:28 |
xx | de-facto: /join ##fitness | 04:29 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean there is variation to some extent but maybe try increasing cardio | 04:29 |
xx | we do lifting | 04:29 |
de-facto | at least i drive with the bicycle everyday | 04:29 |
xx | I intend to lift my own bodyweight this year | 04:29 |
rustynail1[m] | i walk everywhere mostly because i cannot drive | 04:29 |
rustynail1[m] | but due to the alcohol my BP is high | 04:29 |
de-facto | in the summer i used to go for a walk everyday, at least 1 hour | 04:30 |
de-facto | i should do that again | 04:30 |
rustynail1[m] | but some studies have at least shown better outcomes among alcoholics who excersize | 04:30 |
de-facto | i always was listening to a podcast and walked in the woods or in the fields, it gave me mental piece and also mobility | 04:30 |
rustynail1[m] | i just want my life back | 04:31 |
de-facto | hence you will get it back | 04:32 |
rustynail1[m] | well i am trying to get down to 10 mg of paroxetine and 8 standard drinks well eventually less but 8 is at least a start | 04:32 |
de-facto | i miss sunbathing, i really enjoyed that, we have a nice river here and i always was sunbathing in the grass there | 04:33 |
rustynail1[m] | better than ten or sometimes 12 | 04:33 |
de-facto | it was a really nice experience, and heh it even gave moe some vitamin D levels | 04:33 |
xx | de-facto: isn't that associated with skin cancer? | 04:33 |
de-facto | lol yeah, i dont care | 04:33 |
xx | lol | 04:33 |
xx | fair | 04:33 |
de-facto | i mean i did not burn or roast myself | 04:33 |
de-facto | and mostly it was in the afternoons anyhow | 04:34 |
de-facto | so not so much short wavelength | 04:34 |
xx | oh that's fine, you'll just have cancer in the afternoon then /s | 04:34 |
xx | at least skin cancer is detectable if one is not being stupid | 04:34 |
de-facto | lol nope but also less Vitamin D, its mostly produced by the UV-B or such iirc | 04:34 |
xx | just eat foods that have vit d and take supplements | 04:35 |
xx | I don't see the sun on most days | 04:35 |
xx | and my vit d status is good | 04:35 |
de-facto | a wavelenght that comes through our atmosphere if the light would not have to travel a too long path, hence may be more present if your shadow length is less than your actual height | 04:35 |
de-facto | hence noon times | 04:35 |
de-facto | yeah i take 2000 IU Vitamin D3 daily as supplement since early 2020 | 04:36 |
xx | it's surprising how little that has been mentioned in many countries that vit d supplementation is probably a good idea for covid outcomes | 04:36 |
xx | but there've been studies that said it's not true as well | 04:36 |
xx | but overall enough vit d is better than not enough | 04:37 |
xx | and most of the US for example has a low level | 04:37 |
rustynail1[m] | cases are decreasing by me | 04:37 |
rustynail1[m] | maybe this is almost over | 04:37 |
de-facto | this summer may be a good one | 04:37 |
de-facto | after that damn Omicron faded | 04:37 |
rustynail1[m] | would be nice if cases keep going down | 04:37 |
LjL | i feel there's a lot of taboo around vitamin D vs COVID in the medical community i feel, not quite as bad as ivermectin or what have you, but there have been so many studies showing correlation without causation, you know that's hated | 04:37 |
de-facto | i guess they will go down, until next mutant comes in the fall | 04:38 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah | 04:38 |
LjL | i think taking vitamin D in the winter is good advice for anyone in countries anywhere near my latitude, at least in the winter, and it *is* actually recommended for anyone over a young age by the NHS | 04:38 |
rustynail1[m] | hopefully we will get out of this someday | 04:38 |
de-facto | well Vitamin D is a substance also produced by the skin (from UV light) | 04:38 |
de-facto | so its not a foreign substance to the body | 04:38 |
LjL | so even if it does nothing for COVID, i think i'm really doing mo more than parroting the NHS's advice by saying people should take vitamin D except maybe in summer months | 04:39 |
de-facto | its levels are just quite low in the winter in many places without sunlight exposure, for colored people, for elderly people etc | 04:39 |
xx | for IRC people... | 04:40 |
rustynail1[m] | LjL: yeah i like nature made supplements along with vegetables. studies show supplements may not be very bioavalible but nature made at least has quality control and alomg with whole food based diet may be at least somewhat beneficial. especially for someone like me who drinks a lot | 04:40 |
LjL | and since COVID hit, again regardless of its effect on COVID if any... we've had lockdowns, quarantines, all of that, i'm pretty sure people didn't see *more* sun on average than before | 04:40 |
rustynail1[m] | i do not want a b1 deficiency | 04:40 |
de-facto | i think its a good idea to take a reasonable dose of Vitamin D3, not crazy high, but also not just a bit | 04:40 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: you do not want b12 deficiency either, which can happen in alcoholics... | 04:40 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 04:40 |
xx | and that one you don't recover fully from ever, it's permanent nerve damage | 04:40 |
rustynail1[m] | i take a dedicated b complex supplement and eat food | 04:41 |
de-facto | hence me with my 90kg i went for daily 2000 iU i.e. 50µg | 04:41 |
LjL | i take 1000 but i'm also 60kg | 04:41 |
xx | I still can't believe that I might be heavier by the end of this year than you | 04:41 |
LjL | xx, well i'm still kinda hungry despite the 300ml water so maybe you won't | 04:41 |
LjL | though i feel the water helped. or maybe just the waiting time between alcohol and the hunger stimulus | 04:42 |
LjL | no, i mean, between the hunger stimulus from alcohol and the potential fulfilment of it | 04:42 |
de-facto | i just eat anytime i feel hungry | 04:42 |
LjL | well there is such a thing as nervous hunger i'm afraid | 04:42 |
LjL | i keep constantly eating mints. almost no calories but probably not ideal either. | 04:43 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: yeah. it occurs more in extreme alcoholics who do not eat much food but i do supplement and i mainly drink at night. although it is true that alcohol damages your ability to absorb nutrients even when yiou are not actively drinking it | 04:43 |
de-facto | yeah so if it calms me, why not | 04:43 |
rustynail1[m] | but i do not think it is that bad yet | 04:43 |
de-facto | i constantly eat all sorts of nuts that i keep in boxes on my desk | 04:43 |
LjL | de-facto, well for starters because when i eat before going to bed i usually have awful sleep | 04:43 |
de-facto | also i always drink Green Tea with Ginger slices, i love that | 04:43 |
rustynail1[m] | but yeah kosekoff syndrome is no joke | 04:44 |
de-facto | all day long LOL | 04:44 |
LjL | that explains why you're nuts | 04:44 |
rustynail1[m] | thats why im trying to cut down | 04:44 |
de-facto | yeah completely, with no exceptions | 04:44 |
LjL | :) | 04:44 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: not familiar with that | 04:44 |
rustynail1[m] | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke%E2%80%93Korsakoff_syndrome | 04:45 |
de-facto | cashews, one brazil, almonds, hazel, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, sunflower seeds, etc | 04:46 |
de-facto | i really love roasted italian hazelnuts, sometimes i just cant stop to eat them | 04:46 |
rustynail1[m] | i eat full meals daily which reduces the risk and take vitamins but still it is a risk | 04:47 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: nasty stuff as well, but I'd imagine it's rare if one eats food | 04:48 |
rustynail1[m] | the biggest risk is people who drink all day with no real food | 04:48 |
xx | probably end-stage alcoholics who don't eat at all, yeah | 04:48 |
rustynail1[m] | well im not letting it get to that pointv | 04:48 |
rustynail1[m] | i drank more at the start of the pandemic | 04:48 |
rustynail1[m] | i was closer to like 15 standard doses of ethanol then a day | 04:48 |
rustynail1[m] | sometimes 20 standard doses even | 04:49 |
xx | well shit | 04:50 |
xx | you must have missed out like half the pandemic then | 04:50 |
rustynail1[m] | now im at 10 to 12 | 04:50 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: nah when ur tolerance grows you do not experience the same effect | 04:50 |
rustynail1[m] | i can drink like 5 beers and be functional | 04:51 |
rustynail1[m] | with no blackout | 04:51 |
xx | I have bad experience with alcohol so I haven't touched that stuff since I was 18 or 19 | 04:51 |
rustynail1[m] | my tolerance to GABAminergic drugs has always been a bit high | 04:51 |
xx | but those numbers would kill me | 04:51 |
xx | probably even now | 04:51 |
rustynail1[m] | i have such high baseline anxiety a few drinks just brings me to basically a regular persons state of mind | 04:52 |
de-facto | i dont have problem with alcohol, but i was (and probably still am) very addicted to nicotine, i smoked 20 cigs per day | 04:52 |
de-facto | then i got mad at myself when realizing that i placed myself in a risk group at the begin of the pandemic, hence quit doing harm to my lungs | 04:53 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 04:53 |
de-facto | now i dont smoke anymore, but i think i still am addicted to nicotine, so i never touch that stuff ever again | 04:53 |
rustynail1[m] | my grandma died from tobacco | 04:53 |
rustynail1[m] | had gangrene and cancer | 04:53 |
rustynail1[m] | she had her leg amputated and died shortly after | 04:54 |
de-facto | yeah something i dont want to try out | 04:54 |
rustynail1[m] | alcohol has cardiocascular effects too i do not want to end up like that | 04:54 |
rustynail1[m] | heart disease runs in my family too | 04:54 |
de-facto | alcohol also increases cancer risk, damages immune cells and many other bad things | 04:55 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah i know | 04:55 |
rustynail1[m] | trying so hard | 04:55 |
rustynail1[m] | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia | 04:56 |
rustynail1[m] | this is my biggest problem from the meds i think | 04:56 |
de-facto | you really should get rid of that, maybe as a goal to be clean when the summer comes and Omicron is gone | 04:56 |
de-facto | make a plan | 04:56 |
de-facto | until when you want to achieve that, then intermediate goals for every day in between now and the goal | 04:57 |
rustynail1[m] | i hope reducing to 10 mg will help with the restlessness and feeling of "dullness" like lack of dopamine or something. idk it is like i need extreme things to feel any excitement. hard to describe | 04:59 |
rustynail1[m] | it leads to risk taking | 04:59 |
rustynail1[m] | even though i know that alcohol is very bad for me | 04:59 |
rustynail1[m] | it is like the meds have made me want instant gratification more than i ever did before | 05:00 |
rustynail1[m] | i am glad i never got covid tho i am young enough the alcohol probably would not have worsened my outcome that badly however i do have autoimmune dysfunction albeit mild | 05:01 |
rustynail1[m] | autoimmune diseases are still poorly understood and there is a so called kalidescope of autommunity where having multiple autoimmune diseases make you more likely to have systemic problems | 05:02 |
rustynail1[m] | i have been losing hair recently. likely from my drinking bring my autoimmune flares ups. no other symptoms tho | 05:03 |
rustynail1[m] | its not normal hair loss it is a destintive circular random parts of your head type thing | 05:03 |
de-facto | i had severe house dust allergy, they gave me some meds that helped a bit, i took them a day or two then skipped it and just ignored it, now it went away by its own | 05:03 |
rustynail1[m] | well i do not want this problem to become far worse where it for example causes my immune system to start attacking other areas | 05:05 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️ | 05:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for China: +1528 cases, +2 deaths since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +58 cases, +3 deaths since 4 hours ago | 05:05 |
rustynail1[m] | i was mostly couped up during covid | 05:05 |
rustynail1[m] | i am less couped up now to some extent | 05:06 |
rustynail1[m] | i have gone to a few restaurants not that many but we never went too often in the first place tbh | 05:06 |
rustynail1[m] | we probably went like twice a month before and maybe once every two months now | 05:07 |
rustynail1[m] | maybe not even that | 05:07 |
rustynail1[m] | i went to the pharmacy today and they had a massive box of n95 masks that they were giving away for free from that US government purchase. every pharmacy has different brands tho they must have had to buy from various companies | 05:09 |
rustynail1[m] | i received a ihealth covid test as part of a similar program too. never heard of the ihealth one. some are less accurate than others | 05:10 |
de-facto | the cases in USA already went down quite a bit now | 05:11 |
de-facto | looks like peak was around jan 12th | 05:11 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah it is almost like too little too late for a lot of people | 05:12 |
de-facto | here in Germany we may have our peak either now (one month later) or even later | 05:12 |
rustynail1[m] | jen psaki laughed off sending test kits to everyone in the US but faced backlash so they reversed course and sent 4 to any house that applies | 05:12 |
rustynail1[m] | jen psaki is the press secretary for our government | 05:12 |
rustynail1[m] | she got in trouble for saying "what do you want me to do send everyone a test kit? " sarcastically | 05:13 |
rustynail1[m] | so now we have 4 per house at least | 05:13 |
de-facto | here we can buy the rapid antigen tests in every supermarket | 05:14 |
de-facto | initially they cost around 80 cent, now 2.40€ or such | 05:14 |
rustynail1[m] | there is a shortage here due to the size of the country and lack of planning | 05:14 |
de-facto | we dont have enough PCR tests though | 05:14 |
rustynail1[m] | we usually are ok on PCR for the most part | 05:15 |
rustynail1[m] | you just might have to wait hours sometimes | 05:15 |
rustynail1[m] | or shop around | 05:15 |
de-facto | they only are accessible to people that got a positive rapid test, and since rapid tests are a lot less sensitive people cant profit from the better sensitivity of PCR tests | 05:15 |
de-facto | yeah big queues on the PCR testing centers, and days delay for results, a disaster | 05:16 |
de-facto | so we have to get through this wave with the antigen tests | 05:16 |
de-facto | and hopefully prepare more PCR capacity for the next fall | 05:16 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: oh ok yeah we can get pcr just by going to a urgent care clinic. it was not always that accesible and it probably still is not that accesible everywhere but it is better than it was for PCR | 05:16 |
de-facto | in the summer there should be more than enough time (and few cases) to implement that | 05:16 |
rustynail1[m] | we have big shortage of rapid antigen and molucular tests because people do not seem to want to go to the doctor for a variety of reasons. i mean i have kinda avoided going lately too | 05:17 |
rustynail1[m] | there is a lot of hoarding too going on | 05:18 |
de-facto | i always went to my doc when i had to, i just did wear a good FFP3 mask the whole time | 05:18 |
de-facto | N99 or P100 or what they are called in US | 05:19 |
rustynail1[m] | i did not have any urgent medical issues at the time so i sorta avoided it but i have had at least one checkup during the pandemic | 05:19 |
rustynail1[m] | there is such thing as an n99 yeah | 05:19 |
rustynail1[m] | most wear n95 | 05:20 |
de-facto | i just went for nothing urgent but the normal stuff | 05:20 |
rustynail1[m] | there are probably a lot more comfy styles of n95 | 05:20 |
de-facto | i really like the 3M 9330+ series | 05:20 |
rustynail1[m] | that is prolly why n99 was not chosen instead | 05:20 |
rustynail1[m] | n99 might be tough to function with comfort idk | 05:21 |
de-facto | i wear them everyday, the whole day, without break | 05:21 |
rustynail1[m] | really | 05:21 |
rustynail1[m] | damn | 05:21 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺 | 05:21 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️ | 05:21 |
de-facto | (i have a lot of contact to students, some of them may have got it) | 05:21 |
rustynail1[m] | i cannot wait till we get rid of these masks lol | 05:22 |
de-facto | i see 20 new people indoors for many hours every day | 05:22 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 05:22 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️ | 05:22 |
de-facto | so yeah i installed CO2 sensors, put fans at the windows and do wear FFP3, i got used to that, not uncomfy or such | 05:22 |
rustynail1[m] | still i bet you will be happy when you do not have to wear it. i mean they can cause skin irritation | 05:23 |
rustynail1[m] | i have sensitive skin | 05:23 |
de-facto | yeah i even let them stay when i go for the bakery or such, just because i forgot about it | 05:23 |
rustynail1[m] | oh ok i mean i guess some people get so used to it that they do not even noticd it no more | 05:24 |
de-facto | one household member got COVID in early January, i did not get it (boosted + that mask) | 05:24 |
rustynail1[m] | 🐻❤️ | 05:25 |
rustynail1[m] | grizzly bear protection | 05:25 |
rustynail1[m] | *swats at covid with paw | 05:25 |
rustynail1[m] | ☠️👻 | 05:25 |
rustynail1[m] | opps sorry | 05:25 |
de-facto | yeah i was not afraid, even had some conversations in same room with her, but i also did not really want to get that shit | 05:25 |
rustynail1[m] | forgot about the emoji thing | 05:26 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah i talked to my family too with a mask on or at least ran thru the room fast a few times you know | 05:26 |
rustynail1[m] | i may have gotten it but if i did it was very mild | 05:27 |
de-facto | i have to admit i did make sure the mask edge was of airtight fit though, but i did not want to restrict presence too much inside my own household | 05:27 |
rustynail1[m] | i have heard several anecdotal records of people who are boosted just getting mild sore throats with omicron | 05:28 |
de-facto | so i guess that means masks+boosting does actually work | 05:28 |
rustynail1[m] | maybe that is what happened to me | 05:28 |
de-facto | (otherwise all those healthcare workers would also have catched it already) | 05:29 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 05:29 |
de-facto | yeah rustynail1[m] that makes sense | 05:29 |
de-facto | the problem with them is they may propagate it though, the boosted themselves only get mild symptoms (same with that household member) | 05:30 |
rustynail1[m] | it went away with water each day tho | 05:30 |
rustynail1[m] | it would occur mainly when i would wake up | 05:30 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 05:30 |
rustynail1[m] | i do not go out much | 05:31 |
de-facto | for example, right now i would not visit my parents, just so they stay isolated from my exposure risk here | 05:31 |
de-facto | they are over 70 years old | 05:31 |
rustynail1[m] | the sad thing is people here who are not vaccinated are mostly by choice. there are a few medical exptions sure but it is mostly anti vaxxers | 05:31 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: well yeah even people boosted have died in that age range | 05:32 |
de-facto | yeah we have that problem here in Germany too, 2.4M non-vaccinated over 60 year olds | 05:32 |
de-facto | so most likely they will face the virus with a naive immune system at some point in time | 05:33 |
rustynail1[m] | 🥺❤️ yeah that is sad that they are doing that with their lives | 05:33 |
de-facto | and that may not go too well for some of them (the majority will be fine, but still) | 05:33 |
de-facto | and that even when its known that 4 out of 5 hospitalized can be prevented by boosting and 9 out of 10 fatal outcomes | 05:34 |
xx | it's been at least a year since the vaccine is available, by now it's simply their choice | 05:34 |
rustynail1[m] | well even if they survive i was just thinking that is a lot of potential suffering to go thru for nothing | 05:35 |
de-facto | problem is that they occupy 5-fold of hospital capacity that they would if protecting themselves by preparing their immune system for killing the virus in time | 05:35 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean my family friend lived but was on a ventilater for 40 some days and has permanent lung damage | 05:36 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah | 05:36 |
de-facto | and apart from preventing the fatal outcomes, i think an even bigger issue may be the load of long lasting symptoms that recoveries suffer from | 05:36 |
de-facto | those long COVID cases, they worry me a lot | 05:36 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah me too | 05:37 |
de-facto | young people, healthy in best working age, productive, smart, getting employed for their mental capacity | 05:37 |
rustynail1[m] | i hope my cousin does not have permanent damage to her ability to taste and enjoy food | 05:37 |
de-facto | if they end up with brainfog, fatigue, etc they may be much less effective if able to work at all | 05:38 |
rustynail1[m] | i know a man who rapidly progressed into dementia in his 50s i believe maybe 60s but still he was fine before covid | 05:38 |
de-facto | fortunately vaccination seems to be able to lower the risk for long COVID symptoms quite a lot | 05:38 |
rustynail1[m] | he can still function some but forgets his wife a lot | 05:38 |
de-facto | also heart inflammation is a LOT more common with COVID than with vaccination | 05:39 |
rustynail1[m] | i was scared of covid too due to my autoimmune issues because it seems to trigger autoimmund reactions in people without such conditions in the first place at least temporarily | 05:40 |
de-facto | so many young people (even mild cases) may get heart inflammation from COVID, and if doing sports to "recover" may make it worse possibly | 05:40 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah they fear mongered about that with the vaccines a lot here | 05:40 |
de-facto | well COVID is a lot worse in that respect | 05:40 |
de-facto | probably by orders of magnitude | 05:41 |
rustynail1[m] | myocarditis is treatable in most cases. the benefits of the vaccine outweight the rare risk | 05:41 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah covid worse | 05:41 |
rustynail1[m] | covid causes myocarditis more | 05:42 |
de-facto | i mean myocarditis appears 10-fold or 100-fold as often for COVID infected | 05:42 |
de-facto | yeah | 05:42 |
rustynail1[m] | and in combination with other organs being affected by covid could take a serious toll | 05:42 |
rustynail1[m] | sometimes inflammatory episodes happen with vaccines | 05:43 |
rustynail1[m] | but covid is much worse | 05:43 |
de-facto | well it very much depends, maybe if the immune system is "entertained" by the vaccine antigen it may even forget to attack the own body (auto-immunity) to some degree | 05:44 |
de-facto | its hard to tell, depends on so many variables | 05:44 |
rustynail1[m] | with covid i have heard of cases sort of resembling something like systemic lupus where multiple organs are impacted by an autoimmune reaction. | 05:46 |
de-facto | yes that also can happen i guess, the whole problem with COVID is the immune reaction to it | 05:47 |
xx | I'm just waiting for the next variant where the major symptom is the irresistible urge to bite others | 05:48 |
de-facto | shush | 05:48 |
xx | incidentally, there's no research I can find about whether covid can be spread through human bites | 05:48 |
rustynail1[m] | https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/autoimmune-response-found-many-covid-19 | 05:48 |
rustynail1[m] | ill have to see if i can find more about it | 05:49 |
de-facto | actually that would be really scary: if a pathogen manages to influence the brain of its hosts in a way that increases its transmission, because once it managed to do that it will optimize on that by mutations | 05:49 |
de-facto | xx the horror, we dont need a zombie apocalypse | 05:49 |
rustynail1[m] | but basically my point was that i was worried with my autoimmune conditions that if i got covid it could lead to say inflammation in areas i had not previously experienced | 05:50 |
xx | we already live in some apocalypse, might as well add zombies to it | 05:50 |
rustynail1[m] | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome | 05:51 |
rustynail1[m] | like this for example which is sometimes trigger by an infection. | 05:51 |
de-facto | yes good link | 05:51 |
rustynail1[m] | more commonly infection than vaccination | 05:51 |
de-facto | autoantibodies are a serious problem to some | 05:52 |
rustynail1[m] | mine attack my hair and skin | 05:52 |
rustynail1[m] | Rhemetoid arthritis has been identified in the family | 05:52 |
rustynail1[m] | i need to be on the lookout to some extent for that | 05:53 |
rustynail1[m] | these diseases are complex. they can be limited to one area or multiple and can mofph at times | 05:54 |
de-facto | i think medicine is about to make a big leap, with vaccine induced immuno-therapy in the future | 05:54 |
rustynail1[m] | for example psoriasis can lead to psoriatic arthiritis and then even inflammation of the heart and other organs | 05:55 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: i hope so | 05:55 |
de-facto | the original intend decades ago with developing the mRNA technology was to stimulate the immune system to attack cancer cells (as a new cancer therapy) | 05:55 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah will be great to see what the future holds | 05:55 |
rustynail1[m] | the bald spot my immune system attacked is coming in nicely | 05:56 |
rustynail1[m] | my skin has been ok lately | 05:56 |
de-facto | now they proved how well that works with normal vaccination process, yet its possible to also encode other things in the mRNA, for example iirc BioNTech developed a vaccine that helps against MS | 05:56 |
de-facto | they train the immune system to stop attacking the own body somehow | 05:57 |
rustynail1[m] | but i do think drinking it what caused the bald spot in the first place since i have not had issues in a few years | 05:57 |
de-facto | iirc it worked in an initial study | 05:57 |
de-facto | .title https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aay3638 | 05:58 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.science.org: A noninflammatory mRNA vaccine for treatment of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis | 05:58 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 05:58 |
rustynail1[m] | would be great | 05:58 |
rustynail1[m] | the autoimmune drugs right now like methatexate and dven new janise kanise inhibitors like xeljanz are not ideal | 05:59 |
rustynail1[m] | s/dven/even/ | 05:59 |
rustynail1[m] | they cause opportunistic infections | 05:59 |
rustynail1[m] | like someone who has HIV | 06:00 |
de-facto | well i guess this approach aims for fixing the cause not the symptom | 06:00 |
rustynail1[m] | * they can cause opportunistic | 06:00 |
de-facto | e.g. teaching the immune system to stop doing stupid things like attacking the own body | 06:00 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah | 06:00 |
rustynail1[m] | cause the current approach is to basically induce a state of controlled AIDS in a metaphorical way | 06:01 |
rustynail1[m] | it leads to autoimmune patients having to be very very cautious | 06:03 |
rustynail1[m] | because of opportunistic infections | 06:03 |
de-facto | just imagine, in the future, one would go to a pharmacy and get an individualized download for a treatment, they would print it out in mRNA and injecting it would teach the own body's immune system how to fix the problem | 06:03 |
rustynail1[m] | we basically need an immune modulating approach like you said | 06:03 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah | 06:03 |
rustynail1[m] | like a cyberpunk 2077 type system | 06:04 |
rustynail1[m] | well hopefully not as dystopian lol | 06:04 |
de-facto | maybe some cases would require taking a sample and sequence it, send it to some company that may come up with a solution and offer selling the solution as information, as download for an mRNA sequence for the pharmacy to print out | 06:05 |
de-facto | individualized immuno-therapy | 06:05 |
de-facto | probably would be as highly specific as it can get | 06:06 |
de-facto | hence have as few side effects as possible as a well targeted approach solving the problem only | 06:06 |
rustynail1[m] | that will be great right now care is fairly general | 06:06 |
de-facto | yep yet people are individuals | 06:07 |
rustynail1[m] | right now for example we have a couple of classes of drugs to help autoimmune patients but none seem to help fully and none are very selecfive | 06:08 |
rustynail1[m] | s/selecfive/selective/ | 06:08 |
rustynail1[m] | they all carry risk of serious opportunistic infection | 06:09 |
de-facto | i mean the COVID induced auto-immune reactions you linked above, actually they also are a long lasting immune reaction to an antigen exposure, just in that case one that is bad (or non-beneficial) | 06:09 |
de-facto | so such therapies need to be carefully desinged to be beneficial | 06:10 |
de-facto | but just imagine, if one would be able to direct those auto-immune reactions to selectively only target cancer cells | 06:12 |
rustynail1[m] | <de-facto> "individualized immuno-therapy" <- hopefully we can cure HIV somday soon before more varients emerge too | 06:12 |
xx | rustynail1[m]: it's mostly cured | 06:12 |
de-facto | no hole body chemo therapy, rather highly trained assassins only killing the cancer cells and leaving healthy cells alone | 06:12 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: well i mean yeah sorta | 06:12 |
xx | anyone with access to HIV treatment will have a non-detectable viral load and will have same life expectancy as non-infected people | 06:12 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean i see what u mean | 06:13 |
de-facto | HIV is uncurable so far | 06:13 |
de-facto | impossible | 06:13 |
rustynail1[m] | but people still have side effects from treatment | 06:13 |
de-facto | if you got it, you will die with it | 06:13 |
xx | but not because of it | 06:13 |
xx | if you got herpes, you will die with it | 06:13 |
rustynail1[m] | you can get pre exposure pfophalaxis | 06:13 |
de-facto | suppressing the problems with AIDS may make it possible to live a fairly normal live though | 06:13 |
rustynail1[m] | prep | 06:14 |
xx | prep and pep | 06:14 |
xx | truvada works | 06:14 |
rustynail1[m] | and post exposure prophalaxis | 06:14 |
de-facto | but without those drugs, people will die from AIDS 100% | 06:14 |
rustynail1[m] | well yeah | 06:14 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean that is true it is not literally cured | 06:14 |
xx | without various drugs, people will die of a papercut if it was muddy | 06:14 |
rustynail1[m] | but to be fair there are not many viruses with prep and pep | 06:15 |
rustynail1[m] | hiv is uniquely disabled for now anyway | 06:15 |
xx | you can take tamiflu for influenza | 06:15 |
rustynail1[m] | xx: tamiflu is not as effective are prep or pep tho | 06:16 |
rustynail1[m] | prep and pep are amazing breakthrus | 06:16 |
rustynail1[m] | s/breakthrus/breakthroughs/ | 06:16 |
de-facto | btw its very important to 1) diagnose HIV infections 2) treat as many of them as possible 3) make the best drugs available to everyone infected, even if people can not afford that personally | 06:17 |
rustynail1[m] | i think there is even a once a month prep injection now iirc | 06:17 |
de-facto | because immuno-compromised (AIDS) will have ongoing viral infections | 06:17 |
xx | the drug is cheap, it's available as a generic now | 06:17 |
de-facto | their immune system is too weak to end many viral infections, hence initial contamination with one variant of a virus will diversify with time inside their body | 06:17 |
rustynail1[m] | i mean i take tamiflu too at times not bashing it but i was just comparing to prep | 06:18 |
rustynail1[m] | descovy | 06:18 |
de-facto | they will reach a bigger genetic diversity by having the pathogen bloom into its phylogenetic tree, each new branch started by a new mutation | 06:18 |
rustynail1[m] | descovy specifically is what i was comparing tamiflu to. | 06:19 |
rustynail1[m] | i just meant that prep is fairly uniquely effective | 06:20 |
de-facto | and if that can go on over long time the pathogen may "try out" many versions of mutations, hence the probability that at least some of those will optimize the pathogen for human biology (cell entry, immune evasion etc) is much higher in such a persistent infection than e.g. in healthy people with strong immune system or even vaccinated people | 06:20 |
de-facto | that way new variants of concern of SARS-CoV-2 can emerge in immuno-compromised and if given the opportunity to jump over to another carrier may propagate into social networks that are more densely connected such as a tourist transporting it and importing it to a cluster spread (such as a party) | 06:21 |
de-facto | that may then be the start of a new wave with a new mutant, spread worldwide via airplane in weeks | 06:22 |
de-facto | so we really should make sure all HIV positive get the best treatment available | 06:22 |
de-facto | e.g. in Africa | 06:22 |
rustynail1[m] | <xx> "anyone with access to HIV..." <- yeah i wish more knew they had hiv | 06:22 |
rustynail1[m] | de-facto: yeah | 06:23 |
de-facto | this is one theory of the origin of Omicron btw | 06:23 |
rustynail1[m] | oraquick is a rapid hiv test here it is free at many health departments but they say roughly 20% of of hiv positive americans do not know they have it i think | 06:24 |
de-facto | there are many papers observing long lasting infections in immuno-compromised (e.g. AIDS patients) accumulating a LOT of mutations | 06:24 |
de-facto | (note that i wrote AIDS patients, because well treated HIV positive can have quite a healthy immune system that kills COVID just as well as HIV negative) | 06:25 |
rustynail1[m] | i am glad when i was raped that i did not get hiv | 06:25 |
de-facto | wow damn yeah that would have been horrible | 06:26 |
rustynail1[m] | yeah post exposure pfophalaxis is truly amazing. if anyone you know has been raped please tell them to get to an ER and get post exposure hiv drugs | 06:27 |
rustynail1[m] | it can stop hiv from seroconverting | 06:27 |
de-facto | also injuries, e.g. when some crazy people run berserk with a knife stabbing many people or such | 06:27 |
de-facto | yes | 06:27 |
de-facto | but those have to be applied immediately | 06:28 |
rustynail1[m] | well i mean at least with 48 hours | 06:28 |
de-facto | (almost like preventing rabies when a rapid animal bites) | 06:28 |
rustynail1[m] | within | 06:28 |
de-facto | *rabid | 06:28 |
* de-facto cant spell, is half asleep already | 06:28 | |
rustynail1[m] | to be clear i am not saying wait but not all hope is lost after 24 hours | 06:29 |
rustynail1[m] | with hiv you should absolutely try to get meds within 24 hours or less but even within 48 i would still try | 06:30 |
rustynail1[m] | i was raped many times | 06:31 |
rustynail1[m] | i am glad that i did not get hiv | 06:31 |
rustynail1[m] | if i ever have it happen again i will be going instantly to the er for post exposure hiv drugs | 06:32 |
de-facto | sorry to hear, yet glad you did not get hiv of course | 06:35 |
* de-facto needs to catch some sleep, super late here | 06:36 | |
rustynail1[m] | night night | 06:37 |
de-facto | gn8 | 06:37 |
rustynail1[m] | *hugs teddy 🐻❤️ | 06:37 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Novosibirsk, Russia: +5824 cases, +13 deaths since a day ago — Sabah, Malaysia: +4035 cases, +5 deaths since a day ago — Tatarstan, Russia: +3970 cases, +4 deaths since a day ago — W.P. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: +3955 cases since a day ago | 07:10 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): South African scientific dream team, again, helping the world with new knowledge to guide the fight to the pandemic! Unvaccinated + Omicron = Immunity to Omicron onlyVaccinated + Omicron = Immunity to Omicron and other [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1493468728243236868 | 07:19 |
* rustynail1[m] hugs teddy | 08:24 | |
rustynail1[m] | i get anxious | 08:24 |
rustynail1[m] | 🐻❤️ | 08:24 |
Malvolio | (good night) | 08:25 |
rustynail1[m] | i hope it will be ok soon | 08:25 |
rustynail1[m] | Malvolio: good night i hope you have a good night | 08:25 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️ | 08:26 |
rustynail1[m] | i appreciate you | 08:27 |
rustynail1[m] | ❤️🐻 | 08:27 |
rustynail1[m] | night night too me and teddy are going to bed. 🐻❤️ | 08:28 |
Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): Mandatory COVID-19 Tests Lifted for Vaccinated Travelers to Britain → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 08:44 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Greenland: +2 deaths since 4 hours ago | 09:02 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | February 15, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ssxsym/daily_discussion_thread_february_15_2022/ | 09:03 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Women Excelling in Science & Embracing Novel Technologies in a Pandemic - Dr. Jenn Giandhari and Houriiyah Tegally @Jenn_Giandhari @houzhou @StellenboschUni @UKZN23 Feb 2022 at STIAS or VIRTUALLY. In-person attendance followed by a 3-course lunch. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1493498072755847173 | 09:23 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): It means that infection immunity after Omicron is fine against Omicron reinfection or a very similar but new variant. But, protection, without vaccination, against a different variant is very limited. Thus, as shown many times; vaccination remains key, → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493519724994609152 | 10:41 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: ‘I trust my drug dealer more than I trust this vaccine’: A patient's vaccine hesitancy has taught me a lot about how to best care for people who use drugs — and reinforced how poorly the health care system treats her… → https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/15/i-trust-my-drug-dealer-more-than-i-trust-this-vaccine/ | 10:51 |
xx | ^ drug dealers usually care about repeat customers, whereas big pharma gets money regardless | 10:52 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Again it shows good antibodies require the immune response to mature. Much of that happens in the lymph node Germinal centres"Antibody breadth against viral variants is lower after infection compared with all vaccines evaluated but improves over several [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493528816932773892 | 11:20 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): "In contrast to disrupted germinal centers (GCs) in lymph nodes during infection, mRNA vaccination stimulates robust GCs containing vaccine mRNA and spike antigen up to 8 weeks postvaccination in some cases." → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493528819101229057 | 11:30 |
Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: New Leak Suggests Most Users Funding Canada's 'Freedom Convoy' Reside in U.S. → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/st06ez/new_leak_suggests_most_users_funding_canadas/ | 11:49 |
Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Risk remains high in eastern Europe and central Asia with arrival of COVID-19 Omicron variant: Across the entire WHO European Region, we have now recorded more than 165 million COVID-19 [... want %more?] → https://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/statements/2022/statement-risk-remains-high-in-eastern-europe-and-central-asia-with-arrival-of-covid-19-omicron-variant | 11:59 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: PIP: Opinion/decision on a Paediatric investigation plan (PIP): anti-CD40L humanized monoclonal antibody (SAR441344), decision type: , therapeutic area: , PIP number: P/0200/2021 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/paediatric-investigation-plans/emea-002945-pip01-20 | 12:08 |
pwr22 | https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-pledges-1m-more-evusheld-doses-to-u-s-for-a-total-covid-deal-worth-855m | 12:46 |
pwr22 | .title | 12:46 |
Brainstorm | pwr22: From www.fiercepharma.com: AstraZeneca pledges more Evusheld doses to US, bringing its antibody supply deal to $855M | FiercePharma | 12:46 |
pwr22 | Looks like the US actually wants something from AZ again | 12:46 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +57049 cases, +134 deaths since 23 hours ago | 13:00 |
Brainstorm | New from PubMed: Worry about COVID-19 as a predictor of future insomnia: The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic resulted in significant increases in insomnia, with up to 60% of people reporting increased insomnia. However, it is unclear whether exposure to risk factors for the virus or worries about COVID-19 are more [... want %more?] → https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35165971/ | 13:08 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Ali Ellebedy (@TheBcellArtist): New paper: We followed, in humans, as SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine induced B cell clones survived the trials and tribulations of the germinal center (GC) reaction and became affinity-matured circulating memory B cells and bone marrow plasma cells @nature [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TheBcellArtist/status/1493546255523454979 | 13:27 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: China's potential mRNA COVID vaccine weaker against Omicron-study | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st1wkj/chinas_potential_mrna_covid_vaccine_weaker/ | 13:37 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid deaths in UK continue to fall: Death certificates suggest fewer people are dying with, or from, Covid. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60388805 | 13:47 |
Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: TWiV 865: COVID-19 clinical update #101 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #101, Daniel Griffin discusses children and COVID, human challenge study results, effectiveness of mask use, Omicron boost in macaques, mucosal vaccine candidate, [... want %more?] → https://www.virology.ws/2022/02/15/twiv-865-covid-19-clinical-update-101-with-dr-daniel-griffin/ | 14:06 |
Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: TWiV 866: EV antibodies rEVolutionize our thinking: Amy returns to TWiV to discuss her work on the identification of cross-reactive antibody responses among diverse enteroviruses, and the implications for our understanding of viral pathogenesis and seroprevalence studies. → https://www.virology.ws/2022/02/15/twiv-866-ev-antibodies-revolutionize-our-thinking/ | 14:16 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: China’s approval of Pfizer pill opens door to ending 'COVID zero' | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st31g1/chinas_approval_of_pfizer_pill_opens_door_to/ | 14:35 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Protesters defy Trudeau's emergency powers with border blockades | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st339v/protesters_defy_trudeaus_emergency_powers_with/ | 14:45 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): The state remains as absurd as ever as pandemic measures come to a close.Masks required in kindergarten classes but not in bars and gyms.Stupid, indefensible, idiotic … and everyone knows it … and yet it is still being done.cnn.com/2022/02/14/us/… → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/1493583882289139722 | 14:55 |
Brainstorm | New from Politico: Matt Hancock breached equality law over Dido Harding appointment, court rules: High Court finds former health secretary breached legislation designed to eliminate discrimination in two top pandemic appointments. → https://www.politico.eu/article/matt-hancock-breached-equality-law-over-dido-harding-appointment-court-rules/ | 15:15 |
Brainstorm | New from BioNTech: BioNTech to Join High-level Meeting with Partners in Marburg and to Hold Press Conference to Provide an Update on Sustainable Vaccine Manufacturing in Africa: MAINZ, Germany, February 15, 2022 – BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, [... want %more?] → https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-join-high-level-meeting-partners-marburg-and-hold-press | 15:45 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: NYT Science (@NYTScience): In museum and hospital collections, some disease detectives are seeking samples leftover from the Russian flu pandemic of the late 19th century, hoping it could yield clues to what will become of Covid-19 nyti.ms/3gNvcjU → https://twitter.com/NYTScience/status/1493598174132547608 | 16:05 |
Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: Anonymous: European Medicines Agency Approves Pfizer’s 20-Valent Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine Against Invasive Pneumococcal Disease and Pneumonia in Adults → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/european-medicines-agency-approves-pfizers-20-valent | 16:15 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Derek Lowe (@Dereklowe): I've had a lot of requests to rebut a lot of coronavirus conspiracy theories. But here's why I'm not jumping on that task:science.org/content/blog-p… → https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/1493607590797975554 | 16:35 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @ScienceTM "Our data highlight the need for booster vaccinations as the nAb response elicited by a two-dose vaccine regimen wanes over time and is largely ineffective against the Delta and Omicron variants by 6 months."science.org/doi/10.1126/sc… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493610543483080715 | 16:44 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Simultaneous infection with both Delta and Omicron variants in 2 immunocompromised people further highlights the importance of genomic surveillancemedrxiv.org/content/10.110… @rockett_rebecca and colleagues @Sydney_Uni pic.twitter.com/RwBOZkBK0j → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493613764880515088 | 16:54 |
Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: Anonymous: Pfizer and OPKO’s Once-Weekly NGENLA™ (somatrogon) Injection Receives Marketing Authorization in European Union for Treatment of Pediatric Growth Hormone Deficiency → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-opkos-once-weekly-ngenlatm-somatrogon-injection | 17:14 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Stress Among Final Year BAMS Students in Relation With Covid Lockdown Through CSSQ-a Cross Sectional Survey → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05241080 | 17:24 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Mortality of Cancer Surgery During SARS CoV2 Pandemic → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05240378 | 17:34 |
Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Consecutive Waves of COVID-19 in Iran: Various Dimensions and Probable Causes. → https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/publication/35152937 | 17:44 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: When to Apply to Which Patient in MSC?: Condition : COVID-19 Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05240430 | 18:03 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid in Wales: All five to 11-year olds offered jabs: Wales' health minister says she is following unpublished advice from the UK's vaccines advisers. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60394709 | 18:13 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Tigray: the challenges of providing care in unimaginable conditions: During a pre-covid sabbatical in Ethiopia, one of the world's poorest countries, we had the privilege of seeing many healthcare facilities. Working for almost three months, we visited tertiary,... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o400.short | 18:42 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @CDCMMWR todayThe US spike in Omicron wave hospitalizations among children and teens, especially for age 0-4 yrs. For age 12-17, unvaccinated accounted for 90% of hospitalizations. cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… pic.twitter.com/aIGlNbE8L2 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493646071968370688 | 19:11 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): To be clear: as I’ve written many times, infection-acquired immunity played a significant role in building England’s immunity wall, esp in second half of 2021, but steep drop in IFR during first half of the year was very clearly primarily due to [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1493649110288764930 | 19:21 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): I think some of the good-faith questions about relative roles of vaccination and infection are from folks who fail to realise quite how much faster and larger vaccine rollout was compared to "virus rollout".During 2021, *far* more people got [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1493650990976933889 | 19:31 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Protection of Covid newborn/infant hospitalizations by expectant mothers getting vaccinated, vaccine effectiveness: overall 61%; 80% for vaccination >20 weeks of pregnancycdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… @CDCMMWR pic.twitter.com/caKnYOiLYT → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493654924076281856 | 19:40 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Myanmar: +2467 cases, +3 deaths since 19 hours ago — Italy: +71023 cases, +388 deaths, +695744 tests (10.2% positive) since 19 hours ago — Netherlands: +53564 cases, +15 deaths since 19 hours ago — United Kingdom: +47124 cases, +237 deaths, +959737 tests (4.8% positive) since 19 hours ago | 20:04 |
Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: The Human Nose Organoid Respiratory Virus Model: an Ex Vivo Human Challenge Model To Study Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Pathogenesis and Evaluate Therapeutics → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/staiqw/the_human_nose_organoid_respiratory_virus_model/ | 20:20 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The importance and motivational impact of conveying hope during the pandemic.by @M_B_Petersen and colleagues @HopeProject_dknature.com/articles/s4159…@SciReports pic.twitter.com/6MvGJ5K1NH → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493665705652219909 | 20:30 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Feb 15, 2022: High COVID hospital bills Estrogen and COVID-19 death → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-19-scan-feb-15-2022 | 20:50 |
LjL | <Brainstorm> New from Science Daily: MRI sheds light on COVID vaccine-associated heart muscle injury: Vaccine-associated myocarditis shows a similar injury pattern on cardiac MRI compared to other causes of myocarditis, but abnormalities are less severe, according to a new study. → https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220215102839.htm | 21:21 |
LjL | an analysis of what the vaccine-induced myocarditis is *like* should be welcomed, i believe, since there's mostly just this "mild and self-resolving*" (* in the short term, we know nothing else) handwaving | 21:22 |
LjL | i may not like though that they looked at the situation radiologically at first, then went "At short-term follow-up (median 22 [IQR 7-48] days), all patients with vaccine associated myocarditis were asymptomatic with no adverse events", and... no comparison of radiological findings? do they just expect them to be unchanged after only 22 days? | 21:25 |
LjL | "Of the patients with impaired LVEF on MRI, 4/6 had subsequent transthoracic echocardiography or follow-up MRI which demonstrated normal LVEF in all." | 21:27 |
LjL | but not the same method of diagnosis... | 21:27 |
Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Surveillance of Myopericarditis following COVID-19 Booster Dose Vaccination in a Large Integrated Health System → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/stbi6p/surveillance_of_myopericarditis_following_covid19/ | 21:28 |
LjL | "There were no deaths in any group. As expected, the follow-up duration for the other two groups was much longer than for the vaccine group, given the relatively short time interval over which COVID-19 vaccines have been administered." ← so i guess all in all this study is nice in that it shows what the radiological findings are *at the time of the event* compared to other types of myocarditis, including COVID-19 induced which is often what gets compared, but i | 21:29 |
LjL | t doesn't say much on even short-term outcomes nevermind long-term ones | 21:29 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Good to see the universal vaccine (vs β-coronavirus) work getting the front page attention it deserves washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02… by @Carolynyjohnson w/ @DennisRBurton @scrippsresearch pic.twitter.com/oGNoLyusTU → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493684889111056388 | 21:38 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Good editorial by @DrMarcSiegel on how the @Novavax vaccine fits inwsj.com/articles/covid… pic.twitter.com/oBrYBeY1JM → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493689987786706945 | 21:57 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Latest CDC Data: Unvaccinated Adults 97 Times More Likely to Die from COVID-19 Than Boosted Adults → https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/stdqy0/latest_cdc_data_unvaccinated_adults_97_times_more/ | 22:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: As COVID-19 ebbs in US, parts of Europe light up: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Feb 15, 2022 A steady drop in US cases includes a substantial decline in children's infections, but in parts of eastern Europe, cases have doubled over the past 2 weeks. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-19-ebbs-us-parts-europe-light | 22:57 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Study suggests maternal COVID-19 vaccination protects babies: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Feb 15, 2022 A second study shows how hard Omicron has hit kids, especially the unvaccinated. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/study-suggests-maternal-covid-19-vaccination-protects-babies | 23:07 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Effectiveness of Maternal Vaccination with mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine During Pregnancy Against COVID-19–Associated Hospitalization in Infants Aged <6 Monthscdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1493711591161970695 | 23:26 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why is a 3rd dose of vaccine, not specifically designed to protect against variants, so effective against Omicron-induced severe disease?The role of Memory B cells, with their capacity to make antibodies of greater potency & breadthbiorxiv.org/content/10.110… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1493714248467304450 | 23:36 |
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