libera/##covid-19/ Tuesday, 2022-02-15

BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Why Covid-19 vaccines are a freaking miraclestatnews.com/2022/02/14/why… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149336285398160999000:17
xxyeah let's not call them miracles00:19
TuvixClark's 3rd law seems to apply here. Also, perhaps have a comment about the article, not the twitter/reddit/facebook "let's just make commentary on the article's title" for best results.00:21
blueberrycropHahaha xD00:21
LjLyeah, maybe Marc Veldhoen is someone else who wants to end up in the ##covid-ticker twitterer-hell00:23
LjLabandon all hope ye who enter here00:23
TuvixAnd really, who am I to say the "development, testing, manufacturing, and global distribution of Covid vaccines" wasn't the result of prayer. I don't actively practice religion myself, but this is the kind of thing those who are of faith believe can occur.00:23
LjLand i've got to say i've not particularly appreciated statnews's coverage in general00:23
TuvixSure, all that article seems to be, besides obvious click-bait, is a bit of a summary of "how we got the vaccines."00:24
TuvixBut that doesn't make the vaccines any less special, considering we don't have other good options with similar effectiveness.00:24
TuvixHow much of an amazing delivery of a medical product does it take to be a "miracle"? I don't know, but for those that do believe in them, I won't discount such a view. I will say that it's not very scientific :P00:25
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): The COVID Strategy America Hasn’t Really TriedThe clearest way to reduce deaths is to push to vaccinate more of the elderly—yes, still!theatlantic.com/health/archive… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149336319190834380800:26
LjLif it's not very scientific, and yet it's on statnews, i really think it shouldn't be00:26
LjLso all in all, meh, at the article, meh² at the headline, and meh³ at Veldhoen just retweeting it with the headline as commentary, for what i'm concerned00:27
TuvixThe statnews article really misses the point when they talk about the drop in infection VE too, but as you said, it seems to be a low-quality article so that's not really surprising.00:27
TuvixI mean, it's possibly interesting if someone never heard of any of the last 2 years of progress on COVID I suppose, but it's written like a video game review would be.00:28
xxI'm upset they told those big brother contestants about covid so early on00:30
xxshould have let it run till the end00:30
LjLit says some things worthy of discussion though i guess: when it mentions how the 2009 flu vaccines weren't developed quickly because we usually develop them in eggs, and somehow that didn't work with that year's virus, and then it says that if this had been a flu pandemic again, "“We would have pressed hard on egg-based production. And it’s not extensible and it doesn’t scale,” Hatchett said."...00:32
LjLit makes me wonder: how many 2009s would we have needed before we realized a sudden onset of a very aggressive flu strain couldn't be handled with the usual process at the appropriate speed?00:33
xxhuman cell-line (kidney?) are better anyway00:33
xxplus fuck eggs00:34
LjLmaybe the true miracle will be when we stop doing the same thing and expecting different results00:34
TuvixIn a way we did part of that with multiple mRNA vaccines as a leading product in this pandemic, but we've discovered some other problems that aren't necessarily ones vaccines can solve.00:34
LjLTuvix, yes, but the article is basically saying: we did that because this wasn't a flu virus and so we *knew* we had to come up with something different. but it also said after the 2009 experience, we knew that for flu too. but we wouldn't have done it anyway. so that's... not good?00:35
TuvixThe article does point out some other approaches failed, which is closer to your point about expecting to handle a novel pathogen with the same old methods.00:35
TuvixInvestment (funding yes, but a global understanding for its need too) has to be there for something like we saw with nCoV-2 to work. Without governments dumping huge piles of money into the situation, this wouldn't have been possible.00:37
LjLactually i didn't mean handling a new pathogen with the old methods, in theory we didn't know that might not work00:37
LjLi meant we had at least one chance to realize that the egg method was slow, and hence not appropriate for an aggressive pandemic00:38
LjLold flu or novel pathogen, little difference in this sense00:38
TuvixI'm certainly not denying that we've probably been unprepared for a pandemic on this scale for many reasons going back decades of policy and planning decisions.00:38
TuvixHowever, I'm not sure we could roll back the clock 10 years and somehow fix that by warning that something like this could happen.00:38
LjLwell maybe we shouldn't call what we did do a "miracle" when it's mostly the side effects of a consistent human-scale failure00:39
LjLi'm just back to that :P00:39
TuvixSo, better article title, "Humanity doesn't such as badly as it could have without these vaccines!"00:40
Tuvixsuck*00:40
LjL"There is also a fear that people will assume the next time will be easier or even more successful, that what happened with Covid will lead to complacency." ← so which one is it, are we underappreciating or overappreciating? :P00:40
TuvixI'm still convinced there's more to it than *just* weak US vaccine uptake, but the comparisons with ICU & death outcomes still mean not every well-to-do economic nation has fared equally in this (nevermind all the less-able countries still struggling)00:41
LjLactually i didn't realize you were convinced there was more to it00:41
LjLwhat do you think it is?00:41
TuvixVaccines are obviously a large part of it, but social acceptance and political will to have some regulations and enforce them. While the UK PM is being critisized for having "lockdown parties," most places in the US never had any problems with in-person social events going back many months.00:43
TuvixMisinformation and an utter lack of political leadership with our last president haven't helped, and it's continued with the our consertative minority party with congressional officials at federal offices continuing to prey on vaccine skepticism as a way to win cheap political points.00:43
TuvixI've had a hard time buying my usual mouthwash from Amazon the last few months (I have enough, but last order had to buy a flavour I don't usually due to shortages.) That's in part becuase a sitting US senator suggested (without any medical backing) that mouthwash cuts down on effective COVID spread.00:45
TuvixThat's just one case example of our political leaders touting quack science both for political reasons and with no medical basis at all.00:45
TuvixWe have a medically-proven way to reduce COVID spread: masks, and getting vaccinated will help as a multiplier to some degree as well.00:46
BrainstormUpdates for Hong Kong: +2071 cases, +2 deaths since 21 hours ago — Spain: +68706 cases, +601 deaths, +404822470 tests (0.0% positive) since 3 days ago — Netherlands: +55011 cases, +6 deaths since 21 hours ago — Germany: +123064 cases, +130 deaths since 21 hours ago01:01
BrainstormNew from BMJ Open: Association between pharmaceutical modulation of oestrogen in postmenopausal women in Sweden and death due to COVID-19: a cohort study: Objective Determine whether augmentation of oestrogen in postmenopausal women decreases the risk of death following COVID-19. Design Nationwide registry-based study [... want %more?] → http://bmjopen.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/12/2/e05303201:24
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Science: Booster protection from omicron hospital stay dips from 91% to 78% → https://arstechnica.com/01:34
xx^ that one should probably link to the actual article on arstechnica01:35
* rustynail1[m] uploaded an image: (76KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zJLRsxPVQXuuqvTfozxagQax/quarantine-ad.jpg >01:53
rustynail1[m]hmm earily familiar01:53
rustynail1[m]this is from the 1918 pandemic01:54
rustynail1[m]🤔01:58
LjLxx, yeah it should but their RSS feed is dumb and i am lazy :(01:59
LjLi noticed that before although right now i forget what it is they do exactly01:59
TuvixActually, this time it's a lot different. Today, a century later, quarantine is merely "guidance" and you're "suggested" to isolate or quarantine where appropriate.01:59
LjLi think something like there are several <links> but only one <link> to their homepage01:59
LjLcool ad though (i mean cool in some sense)02:00
TuvixWhy worry about the telephone or (more recently) Zoom, Skype, and FaceTime when you can just decide the medical guidance isn't for you and go see your friends at the bar anyway, despite getting your positive test result yesterday? After all, it's "only guidance"02:00
rustynail1[m]yeah02:00
rustynail1[m]🥺02:00
LjLi think what it does make me draw a parallel on is how instead of going "DOOOOOOM! THE PLAGUE, IT WILL KILL US AAAALL!", today as in 1918 we're resorting to technology to lull us into complacency02:01
LjLwhich i can say about Europe instead of the US, where quarantine *is* a thing (or was, at least) :P02:01
TuvixSure, but is today's technology, and more importantly, our undersatnding of it and willingness to apply it well, up to the task?02:01
rustynail1[m]there were anti maskers back then too02:02
rustynail1[m]🤔02:02
TuvixAnd yes, most of the EU did a better job with quarantine rules (you know, by having them as *rules* to begin with) than the US, but I was making a US-only comparison due to the ad.02:02
rustynail1[m]the conspiracys are prolly worse today tho02:02
TuvixThat's a feature of technology too.02:03
LjLTuvix, it seems to be up to the task of making us complacent and making this feel at one time like doomsday and like "[smartphone] business as usual"02:03
TuvixNo longer are crackpot theories limited to small groups of people in your town and a bit of national-correspondance; now you can tweet your nonsense and it'll go viral before tomorrow.02:03
rustynail1[m]there are people in my family inhaling peroxide02:03
rustynail1[m]🥺02:03
LjLat least i get that note of uhm02:03
LjLi don't know how to say02:03
LjLsomething that feels one way and the opposite way at the same time02:04
BrainstormUpdates for Fr. Polynesia: +2805 cases since 3 days ago — France: +35245 cases, +387 deaths since 22 hours ago02:04
LjLnot just inconsistent or contradictory (hi pwr22) but discordant in your own head... dissonant02:04
LjLi guess dissonant is sort of what i was after02:04
rustynail1[m]you would not believe the level of people in my area smoking peroxide to "prevent covid"02:05
rustynail1[m]🥺02:05
pwr22LjL: Ambivalent?02:05
pwr22Conflicted?02:06
TuvixI'm just reminded of a Dickens' opening line, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, …"02:06
de-factosmoking peroxide? whats that?02:06
TuvixPossibly worse than just using leeches like they used to :P02:07
pwr22Sounds like something Trump would advocate02:07
pwr22I myself like a blend of peroxide with some ozone02:07
pwr22With just a touch of halon02:08
de-factolol what is peroxide? i guess not H2O202:08
pwr22😉02:08
pwr22There's a few compounds I remember with peroxide in the name but none of them are readily gas at room temperature02:09
LjLpwr22, yeah ambivalent but while dissonant is less understandable unless i describe what i mean, i think it conveys the *feeling* i get more. when i focus on how things are being treated as abnormal and yet normal at the same time it feels like two dissonant notes are being played at the same time and i'm the only one who goes "hey don't you all hear this doesn't sound right?!" (not really the only one, of course i recognize that many here see this)02:10
LjLstrident, which is similar to dissonant?02:10
LjL%w strident02:10
BrainstormLjL, strident  — adjective: 1. Loud; shrill, piercing, high-pitched; rough-sounding, 2. Grating or obnoxious, 3. (nonstandard) Vigorous; making strides — noun: 1. (linguistics) One of a class of s-like fricatives produced by an airstream directed at the upper teeth → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strident02:10
LjLno, not really similar02:10
rustynail1[m]de-facto: a real doctor promotes it named dr mercola.  needs his medical creds revoked02:10
rustynail1[m]hydrogen peroxide02:11
rustynail1[m]in a nebulizer02:11
de-factowhoa02:11
rustynail1[m]🥺02:11
TuvixRevoking medical licenses is very hard, especially in the US (if that's where you're based.) The system wasn't really designed for the level of willfil malpractice we see in some of this bad-medical advice.02:11
de-factothat is crazy, its good for bleaching hairs, but it also bleaches tissue02:11
pwr22Hmm, if you boil it how much peroxide actually evaporates?02:11
rustynail1[m]yeah02:11
TuvixNot just experimental, but I mean properly bad medical advice, and even when it happens it's _very_ hard to reovke licenses. A number of states have passed or have new bills coming up for vote that would make it even harder too.02:12
de-factoi know that first hand, played with chemistry stuff, ahem, as a kid, and once i spilled H2O2 over my hands, they were bleached white for a few days02:12
rustynail1[m]basically since we are not his patients we cannot do much prolly02:12
rustynail1[m]he would probably have to literally prescribe it to get sanctioned02:12
TuvixHere's a good article on the anti-science being not only advocated by some doctors, but now made legal (or harder to be illegal at any rate): https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/state-legislators-dispense-with-standard-of-care-for-covid-treatment-and-encourage-medical-misinformation/02:13
pwr22de-facto: what sort of concentration were you dealing with 😆 ?02:13
de-facto15%02:13
LjLfirst thing i find if i google "peroxide covid" gives me "H2O2 as a mouthwash and nasal spray is safe to use. There is insufficient evidence to demonstrate that H2O2 is effective as an auxiliary treatment for hospitalized COVID-19 patients." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33957025/02:13
de-factopossibly 30% because i had to dilute it for what i was doing back then02:13
pwr22Ooooo, quite strong for a kid to be playing with 😀02:13
pwr22lol02:13
de-factoyeah02:13
rustynail1[m]LjL: yeah it is wild the way these doctors promote this stuff02:14
LjLso from my cursory non-understanding of the issue, i guess maybe an appropriately diluted amount (meaning probably very small, after all when it's sold as disinfectant it's usually 3% iirc) of oxygen peroxide is at least not positively harmful?02:14
pwr22I mean it's probably not something you want up your nose02:14
pwr22or near any mucous membranes02:14
LjLrustynail1[m], that study isn't really promoting it since it's saying there is insufficient evidence to justify its use...02:14
pwr22It's a strong oxidiser02:14
de-factoit probably will kill more immune cells than virions, because those are much more sensitive to oxidative stress02:14
LjLit just says that it is safe in whatever ways they used it in the study02:14
LjLnot15% for sure :P02:15
LjLnor 30%02:15
LjLbut de-facto plays with fire02:15
rustynail1[m]LjL: i meant mercola and others02:15
de-factoso if not worse, peroxide probably will even promote viral replication, because it ensures there are no functioning immune cells preventing viral replication02:15
pwr22I wouldn't put it up my nose, I wouldn't even want it on my hands or skin for a prolonged time at 1%02:15
de-factoLjL, i dont wnat to give more details, for ... reasons :P02:15
LjLrustynail1[m], do you know what concentration he proposes?02:15
LjL*de-facto lawyers up*02:16
de-factohahaha :P02:16
LjLde-facto, you have the right to remain silent. anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.02:16
rustynail1[m]let me see if i can find it.  he gets banned a lot lol02:16
rustynail1[m]there was a video on youtube02:17
de-factoyeah better dont link it though02:17
TuvixPsh, don't lawyer up, move to the US state of Tennessee where it's now more or less legal to promote or even perscribe unproven COVID-19 treatments! /s (protip: don't do that)02:17
de-factoits not a meme we want to propagate, people may get harmed and more severe COVID from that etc02:17
rustynail1[m]yeah02:17
rustynail1[m]🐻❤️02:17
rustynail1[m]not fit for bears02:17
TuvixThere's plenty of misinformation going around already, but this is exactly why our politicians shouldn't get getting involved in the tasks medical review boards usually deal with.02:18
TuvixThere's a reason we want a baseline level of *medical* skill to be on such boards.02:18
rustynail1[m]yeah it is unreal the things people believe02:19
LjLTuvix, come to civilized Europe with all its institutionalized public medical treatment... and then realize homeopathy is institutionalized in a few of its countries too02:19
pwr22> One study found that only very low concentrations (0.03% solution, this is a dilution of typical 3% Peroxide by 100 times) may induce healing, and only if not applied repeatedly. A 0.5% solution was found to impede healing.[02:19
pwr22Hmm yes, I don't think I'll be using this as an anti-septic either02:20
rustynail1[m]😂02:20
pwr22That's about what I expected to be a safe level (was thinking 0.01% specifically)02:20
pwr22> Despite this, it is still used for wound treatment in many developing countries,[106][107] and, in the United States, is prevalent as a major first aid antiseptic.02:20
pwr22USA! USA! USA!02:21
TuvixSo, extremely low-dose, and not over-applied. Somehow I don't think either is being observed with the DIY medical folks that got their information from youtube or podcsts…02:21
rustynail1[m]pwr22: wouldnt that be hard for the average person to do seems like a lot of room for error02:21
pwr22jk02:21
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: yeah prolly not my cousin uses it daily02:22
rustynail1[m]along with other stuff.  no vaccine tho02:22
pwr22Maybe what he bought is fake and hopefully just saline02:22
rustynail1[m]they got it from the drug store :(02:23
rustynail1[m]🥺02:23
rustynail1[m]☠️02:23
LjLpwr22, it's sold as a first aid antiseptic here too. once i had a thing on my foot and asked the pharmacy if hydrogen peroxide would be appropriate and they said, iirc, something like, no because it tends to close the wound, while we want to keep it open. so it may have some properties that are useful in some situations and less useful in others, i guess02:23
Tuvixrustynail1[m]: Also note that the quote above is about healing, not about prevention against COVID.02:23
LjLit definitely makes your finger look white if you keep contact with it for a bit too long :P02:23
rustynail1[m]😂02:24
LjLultimately i guess all antiseptics are not antibiotics, they don't kill very selectively, so you'd expect them to kill your tissues too02:24
pwr22Tuvix: Yeah Tuvix is right there. I figure a mucous membrane probably behaves more like an open wound with exposure to it than regular skin though02:24
rustynail1[m]yeah hopefully my family members who are doing it will be ok02:24
rustynail1[m]not much i can do02:24
TuvixYea, and they're what I use to clean wounds before drying them and _then_ putting on some antibiotic. I don't keep re-applying fairly harsh cleaning chemicals for my health.02:25
pwr22rustynail1: yes a bit of a crappy situation ☹️02:25
Tuvix(usually I don't even reach for chemicals, just soap & water, then dry & dress the wound. I only reach for chemicals if there's an obvious need)02:25
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: yeah me too02:25
rustynail1[m]i have luckily never had an infected wound as far as i remember02:27
rustynail1[m]even when i did not wash02:28
rustynail1[m]there have been times where i did not wash smaller wounds02:28
rustynail1[m]probably not recommended tho02:28
rustynail1[m]i mean i probably did at least wash them a bit in a shower i suppose02:29
TuvixI had a pretty nasty chunk of skin off the top of my foot some years back. It didn't require a hospital visit, but I had to twice-daily carefully remove the bandages, use some antiseptic cleaner, and re-apply antibiotic to promote healing. It didn't do any long-term damage but was very unpleasant and took several days to stop being fairly painful, and a couple weeks to heal fully.02:30
rustynail1[m]i was drunk one time and fell on a stake and went to bed with an open wound not fully realizing it.  im so lucky that did not get infected or continue bleeding a ton02:31
rustynail1[m]🥺☠️02:32
rustynail1[m]it was a somewhat big laceration too not bad enough to need stiches but it left a big scar02:33
rustynail1[m]it was dark and i did not realize someone had put up stakes in the yard02:33
rustynail1[m]if it had been light out it prolly would have never happened02:34
rustynail1[m]at least i did not fall and hit my head02:34
rustynail1[m]cause i fell on a comcrete area after hitting the stake02:34
rustynail1[m]i think alcohol can thin your blood too iirc could have been bad02:35
rustynail1[m]i was young and had a super low tolerance02:36
LjLi'd say "we all were there" but i guess i shouldn't really implicitly endorse dangerous behavior02:37
LjLbut many of use were there, bad as it may have been02:37
rustynail1[m]yeah02:38
rustynail1[m]❤️🐻02:38
rustynail1[m]i am a lot more careful now plus am more used to the effects02:40
rustynail1[m]i went by the pharmacy today and they have huge boxes of n95 masks free.  a bit too little too late at this point02:42
rustynail1[m]the government sent me 4 test kits for my entire household02:42
rustynail1[m]🤔02:42
TuvixDepends where in the US; some parts of the country are still very much in the middle of their Omicron waves.02:42
rustynail1[m]it is better than nothing tho.02:42
TuvixThe JHU daily video does a nice job of highlighting a few national metrics, and one of them shows the hotspots across the country.02:43
rustynail1[m]i am glad i got my booster.  big grizzly bear protection hopefully02:43
rustynail1[m]🐻02:43
Tuvixhttps://coronavirus.jhu.edu/covid-19-daily-video02:43
rustynail1[m]i never had any side effects from any of pfizers doses luckily02:44
rustynail1[m]wish i had gotten moderna but pfizers is not that much different02:45
TuvixI had just mild effects from 1 & 2 (Pfizer for all 3 here) but virtually nothing of note after the 3rd, just a mildly sore arm the next day.02:45
rustynail1[m]i took what i could get right when i could get it.02:45
rustynail1[m]i was not about to wait around being choosy02:46
rustynail1[m]yeah i only had mild sore arm for all three02:46
rustynail1[m]my household got covid and i may have gotten it but it was just a very mild sore throat that went away after drinking water thru the day.  i kept testing negative on rapid tests where everyone else was positive02:48
rustynail1[m]i had such mild symptoms a intranasal PCR would have been too much pain to go thru for what i was feeling02:49
rustynail1[m]the swap up my nose would have been worse then the mild soreness in my throat02:49
rustynail1[m]i teared up from the one that barley even goes up your nose02:50
rustynail1[m]🥺02:50
rustynail1[m]like that02:50
rustynail1[m]it tickled and made me sneeze a few times.  i had no desire to get the deep one02:51
rustynail1[m]i was boosted and everyone else was not yet02:51
rustynail1[m]i tested negative twice on abbot antigrn test02:51
rustynail1[m]nasty ole stick up the nose02:53
rustynail1[m]🥺02:53
TuvixI got a PCR test early 2021 when I felt a bit off, but it wasn't COVID. It depends on who does the test, but they don't really need to go that far for the swap to be reliable.02:53
TuvixNot all nurses are as skilled as others though, same as any other profession.02:53
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: yeah i have seen some people swab really easily and others where they felt like it was jammed up there02:54
rustynail1[m]plus it was not like there was anything they would do for a case of covid so mild that my sore throat goes away when i drink water02:55
de-factoiirc Omicron may have higher concentrations in the throat at some time, probably depending how the initial contamination happened, but also on the tissue in nose and pharynx02:56
rustynail1[m]it would come back in the morning but basically i just had to keep drinking water.  i got a gagging sensation a few times due to the feeling in my throat but that is not that abnormal for me when my throat is dehydrated02:56
de-factoso possibly a gargling test or a real pharyngeal-nasal swab may have higher predictive accuracy than only a "convenient" swap not too deep in the nose (it may lead to a false negative)02:57
rustynail1[m]my other family members are still feeling fatigue from covid02:57
rustynail1[m]a family friend was on  ventilater for like 40 days and still has issues.  a cousin has permanent taste dysfunction02:58
de-factooh wow02:58
de-factofrom Omicron that circulates right now?02:58
rustynail1[m]the cousin says water tastes like spoiled milk02:58
rustynail1[m]she has no pleasure from food anymore02:58
rustynail1[m]i think she got it earlier maybe delta02:59
de-factoyeah before the current wave it may have been Delta02:59
de-factodepending on the contamination date02:59
rustynail1[m]i mean hopefully it is not permanent but it is not going away for her and it has been a year or so02:59
de-factoyeah it may take some time to recover the nerve cells02:59
de-factothey grow very very slowly only02:59
xxanal swabs when?03:00
de-factolol whut?03:00
rustynail1[m]that would be horrible to have taste become bad where she can only enjoy limited food now03:00
TuvixSmell is a big part of taste, so the change in how foods taste could well be related, at least in decent part, to the traditional loss of smell.03:00
rustynail1[m]it would have to be a total chore to eat ugh.  i would prolly try to consume mostly protein shakes for a bit if that happened to me and maybe try some solid foods when i could03:01
rustynail1[m]i went thru a time where i had neurological problems and trouble swallowing so i had to consume mostly protein shakes with like peanut butter and kale stuff like that because i was rapidly losing weight because it was a chore to eat because i was afraid03:02
de-factoa friend got it in the Delta wave, i think like 3-4 months after completing the 2nd mRNA vaccination, only hat mild symptoms but also lost smell/taste completely, i think she said it took more than a month to come back, and at first it was even more intense (maybe because she was not used to that sense anymore, maybe because new cells were more sensitive at first)03:02
TuvixYou mentioned some folks around your area or that you know are engaging in various unfounded prevention measures; are they at least vaccinated with 2-doses as well?03:02
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: no03:03
rustynail1[m]i live in a heavy anti vax area03:03
de-factoooff03:03
rustynail1[m]ivermection is everywhere here03:03
rustynail1[m]doctors promoting it03:03
rustynail1[m]ERs03:03
xxat least there are fewer parasites then03:03
rustynail1[m]i do not feel safe anymore living here medically03:04
TuvixI mean, I have some new parts of my routine that I also do to help cut down on COVID spread, like being extra careful to wash my hands when I get home, and again after I unload any groceries or such, but I don't do those things _instead_ of vaccination; I do them in _addition_03:04
rustynail1[m]my biggest fear now is that i become incapacitated and some quack prescribes hydroxychloquine03:05
LjLrustynail1[m], write down a medical will03:05
rustynail1[m]🤔03:05
rustynail1[m]yeah i guess i could do that i never knew they existed03:05
rustynail1[m]i mean i knew about do not resistate etc03:06
TuvixThey're usually called "living wills"03:06
rustynail1[m]DNRs03:06
LjLrustynail1[m], the rules around them vary by place. but it probably can't *hurt*, legally, to have it written down.03:06
rustynail1[m]oh ok03:06
LjLworse case it may be disregarded, which is what you feared would happen anyway03:06
LjLworst*03:06
rustynail1[m]yeah.03:06
rustynail1[m]it is hard living in the south03:07
rustynail1[m]🤬03:07
rustynail1[m]if i could leave i would.  i feel safer in a place like Oregon that has assisted suicide if i am terminal and is way ahead of the game on various patient rights03:08
xx+1 for assisted suicide laws03:09
LjLi live in a country where a few doctors still think that "pain is part of the process" and won't prescribe enough morphine or similar even to terminal patients03:09
rustynail1[m]yeah we are like that in the US due to the sackler family03:09
LjLor in other situations that i won't mention03:09
rustynail1[m]the war on drugs nonsense03:09
xxalways makes me wonder about the people who say "trust your doctor"03:09
xxlots of doctors are quacks03:10
xxand not the good kind of quack03:10
rustynail1[m]i had to use kratom for my pain03:10
xx\_o< quack!03:10
LjLrustynail1[m], well i'm sure there *is* an abuse of painkillers and opioids and stuff, that should also be considered03:10
LjLbut...03:10
rustynail1[m]there are tons of chronic pain patients suffering here who now use heroin03:10
LjLi don't know, one thing is being mindful of overmedication, another is having religion-inspired ideas on suffering being part of the process you have to go through03:11
rustynail1[m]im just lucky i knew about kratom03:11
rustynail1[m]kratom is not ideal it tastes horrible and lasts only a short time but was better than suicide due to pain03:11
rustynail1[m]they are trying to ban kratom too03:12
rustynail1[m]it is evil.  the war on drugs is evil03:13
rustynail1[m]glad we have the internet now03:13
rustynail1[m]i was completely abadened by the medical doctors supposed to help me.  i had to do all the research on my own03:14
rustynail1[m]i went thru years of suffering due to the drug war and doctors not wanting to lose their liscence03:14
TuvixI'm generally against taking any medication I don't need, but I also got a first-hand experience to the value of pain-killers; I had all 4 of my 3rd molars (wisdom teeth) out at once, as 1 was likely to cause me problems later in life. After the local wore of, the pain was substantial.03:14
rustynail1[m]i had to source things myself for a while03:15
TuvixThe first 2 nights I may not have been able to sleep easily without the maximum dose I was allowed, and I timed it just before bed. After 2 nights I was down to a half-dose, and 4 days in (less than half my supply) I cut myself of. It still hurt a bit, but managable.03:15
rustynail1[m]plus i was terrified i had AS.  i have other autoimmune problems and was having severe SI joint pain03:15
LjLi had 3 of my wisdom teeth extracted, and the fourth i was just like "please no, not another"03:16
TuvixOh, they knocked me out for that.03:16
rustynail1[m]i never got wisdom teeth.  they never came in for some reason03:16
TuvixI had the option to just get a local each extraction, but happily elected to be put under. One of the 4 coming out was not only fully in the gums, but rotated sideways.03:16
TuvixThe tricky one they had to break into parts to remove, and I was quite happy not to be aware of any of it.03:17
rustynail1[m]one guy i know they had to break his jaw or something to fix his wisdom teeth.  it was apparently pretty intense because he had to be awake because he had no ride home03:18
LjLTuvix, there's a difference with the way we do things in dentistry, you'll almost never be put under here, i think my dentist has just about started using nitrous oxide on select patients with particular needs03:18
LjLi definitely had a tooth being broken into parts while being fully aware of it ;(03:18
rustynail1[m]wow03:18
LjLit's not the best03:18
rustynail1[m]that is crazy03:18
LjLno, it's not very crazy03:18
LjLyou have a local anesthetic and you don't really feel much pain, you mostly have "bad mental images" and feel the mechanical unpleasantness03:19
rustynail1[m]🥺03:19
LjLon the flipside of the coin, you are spared from the risks of being "put under", which, however small, are always there03:19
TuvixMost dental work that's not an option, but the 3rd molars was an exception at the clinic I went to. That clinic is also more on the modern edge of science, and is in part staffed by students for some of the more basic dental work.03:19
LjLi'm not saying you *shouldn't* be put under, either03:19
LjLi'm saying the way we do things here just sounds "crazy" to you as a knee-jerk reaction to it being different from the way they do them where you are03:20
rustynail1[m]why do they want people in pain?03:20
TuvixWIth a local there's not really any pain.03:20
LjLto me it initially sounded crazy that you'd be put under for dental things in America. i was like "wow, what do they mean, full anesthesia? my grandma went senile from repeated doses of that, i don't wanna"03:20
rustynail1[m]or suffering mentally?03:20
TuvixNot until after it wears off anyway.03:20
LjLrustynail1[m], i am in fact trying to explain why there are pros and cons to both.03:21
LjLi don't think they "want people in pain" in this case, not any dentist i've known.03:21
rustynail1[m]i was speaking in the context where you said pain is part of the process due to religion03:21
TuvixI was actually once given an extra dose of just a simple local into my gums, becuase the feeling was just starting to come back as they were still working, so they gave me a bit more.03:22
TuvixI really wish I'd known how close they were to being done, becuase it didn't wear off for over an hour after I had left the clinic :\03:22
LjLrustynail1[m], that's another matter, not about dentistry, but more about treatment of chronic pain, terminal patients, and childbirth (cue for...). at a guess, i wouldn't say it's directly *from* religion except for a small amount of doctors, but it's *influenced* by a culture that stems from religious belief on man's suffering03:23
TuvixIn that case, a bit of *mild* pain (not severe obviously) might have been preferred, but whatever, my lips & gums eventually got their feeling returned shortly after I had taken the train home.03:23
xxLjL: did someone say childbirth?03:23
xx:D03:23
LjLxx, i'm making faces but you can't see me03:23
rustynail1[m]chronic pain can destroy your mental state03:23
xx>:(03:24
xxprobably03:24
rustynail1[m]there were times where i felt like i had no opgions03:24
rustynail1[m]s/opgions/options/03:24
xxthough to be fair, every male doctor I've ever interacted with did not take women talking about pain seriously03:24
LjLxx, a complex mixture of 🙄😆🧐😠03:25
rustynail1[m]i have been sexually harassed by doctors, had them not take pain seriously, have them make fun of disabilitys i have in front of students, had them be neglectful not doing lab work like they are required for certain drugs.  it is unreal03:25
xxnot an expert on this, but I've heard of some doctors being happy about women in pain due to some religious nonsense about some sin caused by women03:25
rustynail1[m]it is unreal the way some doctors get away with things.03:26
LjLxx, i've definitely heard other women complaining that doctors, at least male ones i suppose, have an annoying tendency to think that male feeling pain equals pain, while female feeling pain equals whining. but hey, people like me who're whining all the time should help reset that balance ;P03:26
xxyeah and people keep telling me how doctors respect ethics and oaths...03:26
rustynail1[m]i wish pharmacists were far far more involved in the process03:27
rustynail1[m]pharmacists need way more freedom than they currently have03:27
xxpeople need more freedom to just order stuff online03:27
LjLwell, my pharmacy happily recommends homeopathy, so i'm not so sure03:27
LjLpeople are people03:28
xxwhy can't I order aspirin online in most countries?03:28
rustynail1[m]xx: that too03:28
rustynail1[m]i should at least be able to buy codeine for pain03:28
xxcodeine used to be prescription-free in many places03:28
xxbut then they started turning it to meth? or something03:28
rustynail1[m]yeah03:28
rustynail1[m]war on drugs ruined that03:29
rustynail1[m]its about racism mostly tbh03:29
rustynail1[m]not science03:29
xxwar on drugs exists in countries that only have a single race too03:29
BrainstormNew from BMJ Open: Fear of cancer recurrence in peritoneal malignancy patients following complete cytoreductive surgery (CCRS) and hyperthermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy (HIPEC): an observational study protocol: Introduction Fear of cancer recurrence (FCR) is correlated with higher depression levels, worse quality of [... want %more?] → http://bmjopen.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/12/2/e05729403:29
rustynail1[m]the US is a big part of that tho03:29
rustynail1[m]with the single convention on drugs treaty03:30
xxUS and EU03:30
xxUS + EU + commonwealth03:30
rustynail1[m]the US influenced others to sign on to the un treaty03:30
LjLxx, uh? what's "a single race" to do with it? and also, iirc, the treaties mainly involved were signed by virtually every country03:30
rustynail1[m]the single convention on drugs treaty03:30
LjLhardly just US + EU + commonwealth although that does include a lot of countries already03:30
rustynail1[m]the US has a ton of influence tho.03:31
rustynail1[m]just as an example.  if you get blacklisted from US banks you get blacklisted from most world banks.  when the US put sanctions on carrie lam of hong kong she lost all her assets outside china03:32
LjLxx, and, counterexamples: "Some of the most severe penalties for drug trafficking are handed down in certain Asian countries, such as Malaysia, which mandate capital punishment for offenses involving amounts over a certain threshold. Singapore mandates the death penalty for trafficking in 15 g (half an ounce) of heroin, 30 g of cocaine or 500 g of cannabis."03:32
LjLthese countries are not at all single-race03:32
LjLand yet they have some of the strictest penalties for drug use/trafficking03:32
rustynail1[m]carrie lam will not be able to function outside china until the US says so03:32
rustynail1[m]all these countries started the war on drugs in roughly the same time period too.03:33
xxLjL: it was the comment about war on drugs being a race thing03:33
LjLTaiwan also has the death penalty among countries that spring to mind, and they have multiple ethnicities although i guess it's mostly Han Chinese really (i'm not particularly comfortable with the concept of "race" in the first place, so whatever you mean by that, i'll handwave it into ethnicities or something less but more definite :P)03:33
LjLxx, oh03:34
LjLxx, i missed that and instead i thought you were saying the opposite, i.e. that it's a thing that *only* occurs in single-race countries03:34
LjLnevermind then03:34
rustynail1[m]it is not always race based but it def is in the US and they spread this ideology elsewhere03:34
xxdunno, there were laws against drugs in many places even before US was discovered03:35
LjLxx, hmm, wasn't it mainly alcohol, which ironically is the one that's largely allowed by the UN treaties etc? :P03:35
rustynail1[m]nixon hated blacks and wanted a way to arrest people without charging them for being black.  he knew that blacks and whites used drugs at the same rate but also knew that functionally it would not hurt whites as much03:36
xxLjL: yeah alcohol too. Horrible stuff, can't believe it's legal. Also makes for worse covid outcomes.03:36
LjLi think err maybe we should go back to the bleak topic of COVID or similar a little bit, before we stray *too* far into unrelated politics, maybe :x03:36
LjLxx, it's definitely... well... it's tricky, what with the really bad therapeutic ratio... i can't think clearly about it... let me grab some limoncello03:37
rustynail1[m]well i mean no one shoould be arrested for what they do with their own bodies.  we do not arrest type 2 diabetics even tho they caused it on themselves in many cases03:37
xxheh03:37
xxso to bring it more on topic, anyone aware of any studies on covid outcomes for various drug users?03:38
rustynail1[m]xx: depends on the drug03:38
LjL%papers outcomes drug users03:38
BrainstormLjL, 10 results out of 45006: Central Public Health Interventions Responsive Studies Team (PHIRST): Evaluation of the move to remote models of service delivery by drug and alcohol services in Leeds during the COVID-19 pandemic (Leeds COVID-19 DASE Project), dated 2021-09-09 → https://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN50804656 [... want %more?]03:38
xxI can't remember reading anything about it03:38
LjLBrainstorm, you useless piece of 2008 hardware03:39
BrainstormLjL: heh, the solution to covid, rather than a piece of paper showing some vaccination status, so someone could ctcp version the whole situation in USA, but to not have to pay the bills03:39
xxwell, the problem is the word 'drug' in this context03:39
xxmaybe 'narcotic' but that's not used often either03:39
LjLxx, no, if it's between the problem being me being unclear and the other party (bot or person) misinterpreting, it has to be the other party, because i'm a man, and as such can't be wrong. or admit to being wrong, anyway.03:40
rustynail1[m]i highly doupt a mushroom user will see any different health outcomes for example03:41
rustynail1[m]alcohol definetly worsens outcomes03:41
rustynail1[m]tobacco03:41
rustynail1[m]people who smoke drugs have worse outcomes generally03:41
LjLalcohol and tobacco, though, i do know we have studies covering those03:42
LjLbut i'm not sure about illicit drugs. harder to make studies on them...03:42
rustynail1[m]but most illegal drugs are not as toxic as drug propagandists claim03:42
xxyeah, but the adulterants might be03:43
blueberrycropI did one of those covid tests twice, and results came back negative for me... but the rest of my family has COVID03:43
blueberrycropI think I could be immune03:43
xxor it's just too early to tell03:43
blueberrycrophow so?03:43
de-factowell many substances such as drugs may cause some harm on the immune system on cellular level, especially if illegal drugs contain a lot of additional substances that may cause even more harm than the original substance would have03:43
xxblueberrycrop: you'd need to provide more context03:44
xxhow long ago since contact with an infected person?03:44
LjLi'm finding some things on the effects *of COVID-19* in management of substance abuse or the phenomenon itself03:44
blueberrycropwell... I live with my Mom, as well as my nieces and nephew.03:44
blueberrycropThey all tested positive03:44
rustynail1[m]de-facto: hopefully we are moving towards a regulated market03:44
LjLde-facto, that is often used as an argument to make them stop being illegal...03:45
rustynail1[m]i think we will see it in our lifetime03:45
de-factomany immune system cells react extremely sensitive to chemical substances and oxidative stress, so they will be the first affected by the presence of chemical substances alien to human biology (and their decay chains)03:45
rustynail1[m]that is why for example the swiss use heroin assisted treatment03:45
rustynail1[m]you have a clean supply from the swiss pharmacy03:46
de-factobtw that also is the reason the immune system probably will get strengthened by antioxidant rich diets etc03:46
de-factoraw unprocessed food like fresh vegetables and fruits, berries, green tea etc pp03:47
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah03:47
rustynail1[m]supplements do not really work well.  need other micronutrients in the actual veggies03:47
LjLxx, PSA, just read the state department said Americans should "leave Belarus immediately", although i'm reading it on somewhat meh sources. i also saw Russia had military deployments in Moldova.03:48
xxLjL: that was yesterday03:48
rustynail1[m]LjL: yeah things are getting bad03:48
rustynail1[m]scary03:48
rustynail1[m]🐻❤️03:48
xxand yeah, I'm a straight line between the moldova deployment and ukraine border03:48
rustynail1[m]🥺03:48
LjLrustynail1[m], can i ask you to avoid the emoji-on-its-own-line stuff? on Matrix they take up a lot of space, and on IRC people are kind of not used to having a ton of them and multiple lines are disruptive. just use them sparingly on the same line as the rest of what you're saying please ;P03:49
rustynail1[m]ok03:49
LjLthanks03:49
xxthe 🦇 should be banned in here anyway03:49
de-factoso it goes in both directions, hence i would aim to prevent harmful substances (such as alcohol, drugs, especially on the lungs by smoking etc) and also try to get a diversified diet with a lot of natural sources for antioxidants, but also not completely exaggerate that (e.g. by supplements or such) because a *bit* of oxidative stress may also be required for killing cancer cells etc03:49
xxLjL: isn't the matrix bridge down all the time anyway?03:50
de-factoso i would try to stick to natural food sources for such antioxidants, because then they come in the form we (and our microbiome) evolved to process them for millions of years03:50
rustynail1[m]de-facto: i read recently there was a study about alcohol specifically weakening lungs immune function i will have to see if i can find it03:51
LjLxx, not right now for sure, since that's where rustynail1[m] is hailing from...03:51
de-factoyeah it probably has something to do with its decay path in the human body i would assume03:51
rustynail1[m]i mean alcohol is pretty well known to damage most organs so it is not that shocking03:51
de-factoalcohol can be quite harmful at some threshold concentration03:51
xxplus, you know, liver damage not exactly being condusive to any sort of good health outcomes03:52
rustynail1[m]yeah people tend to think of the liver wirh alcohol but heart disease is huge in alcoholics03:52
de-factounspecifically killing cells in general03:52
xxit's a solvent03:52
de-factoyet does not solve all problems03:53
rustynail1[m]a cousin died at 30 from alcohol related stroke03:53
de-factoouch sorry to hear03:53
LjLone of my cousins is an alcoholic :(03:53
LjLand she's around 3003:53
rustynail1[m]i drink too much myself.  i am trying to cut down.  i am having side effects from other medications and stress from covid.  i started drinking daily during covid sadly03:53
xxcombining alcohol and medications?03:54
de-factowow you should try to replace it with some other (more healthy) habit somehow03:54
xxeven if they are deemed "compatible", it's still a shit idea03:54
rustynail1[m]i have side effects from medications that have caused me to lose all impulse control03:54
xxthat sounds dangerous03:54
rustynail1[m]but without them i am unable to function03:55
rustynail1[m]i am splitting my dose in half of paroxetine03:55
rustynail1[m]maybe that will help03:55
rustynail1[m]i need it tho for OCD.  i lost the ability to walk from OCD it got that bad03:56
rustynail1[m]now i am stuck in a place where i feel constant inner restlessness from the paroxetine but if i stop it i might not be able to walk03:56
rustynail1[m]it is very scary03:57
xxnasty stuff indeed03:57
rustynail1[m]and overwhelming chronic pain at times with no help or end in sight03:57
LjLrustynail1[m], is it the only thing you've tried? not necessarily wanting you to go on the try-every-possible-med treadmill, but have you talked to your psychiatrist about the restlessness it causes and the way it bothers you?03:57
xxbut definitely something you should not combine with alcohol03:57
rustynail1[m]LjL: not really.  there is not much they can do besides i do not fully trust them.  i have literally had to navigate this entire battle by myself.  i was the one who suggested the paroxetine in the first place because fluoxetine caused me to nearly kill myself due to insomnisa03:59
rustynail1[m]paroxetine is supposed to cause less insomnia which it did help tbh03:59
de-factoidk what to say, i personally always was a fan of "as little as possible", so i ended up refusing (admittedly minor) medications per default, yet there are of course cases where medications are required. If given the choice i would always try to not get used to any substance (hence also avoid any possible dependence on it)03:59
rustynail1[m]but now i think it is interfering with my ability to feel pleasure in life.04:00
rustynail1[m]but i was unable to walk04:00
rustynail1[m]i literally thought i was about to die every second of every day if i walked and fell and hit my head04:01
LjLrustynail1[m], ultimately none of those things are free from unpleasant drawbacks i guess04:01
xxThere's supposed to be pleasure in life?04:01
rustynail1[m]it is called persistent perceptual postural dizziness a condition related to OCD04:01
LjLxx, "supposed" is a strong word, but i can vouch that i've met people whose interpersonal communications i interpret as them feeling some pleasure in life04:01
rustynail1[m]rustynail1[m]: i had to use a walker for a while04:02
xxLjL: people fake all sorts of stuff. Nobody on social media experiences pleasure, despite what it may look like for example.04:02
LjLxx, i'm not talking about random people on social media, i'm talking about people i interact with on a personal level04:02
rustynail1[m]https://vestibular.org/article/diagnosis-treatment/types-of-vestibular-disorders/persistent-postural-perceptual-dizziness/04:03
LjLpleasure is not all they feel, of course04:03
LjLpain and depression and anxiety also occur04:03
de-factoi think humans in general are a very adaptive species, hence probably can adapt to almost any circumstance, yet of course circumstances will have impact on how people feel, so that probably can be used for creating positive impact, creating circumstances (and challenges) that lead to a more satisfied mental state without depending on chemistry for that too much04:03
xxLjL: a person I've interacted with daily and looked the happiest ever jumped under the train too04:03
xxcan't ever tell if someone else is happy or experiences pleasure04:04
LjLde-facto, if your problem is "unable to walk", the physical circumstances that fixes that is "lie in bed all day", which is by no means ideal04:04
xxthough the weirdest thing was that they did it *after* they got promoted...04:04
xxnever understood it and can only guess04:04
LjLxx, fair enough, but do you know that they weren't actually "happy" to some extent and it was the suicide that was a "fluke"? (one you can't recover from of course)04:05
rustynail1[m]the main treatment for PPPD is SSRIs and therapy04:05
rustynail1[m]the SSRIs helped but they cause this blunting of my ability to take any pleasure in things besides extreme rushes like excessive drinking04:06
xxLjL: he was a family man, with a happy wife and kids, perfect work record, never looked overworked and always spread cheer around.04:06
xxthe human condition is flawed04:06
rustynail1[m]and akathesia04:06
rustynail1[m]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia04:06
LjLxx, so yes you're right ultimately i can't *know*, but i pretty much base my rational outlook on life (as opposed to the non-rational part which probably dominates by far) on the idea that i am a being with thoughts and feeling, and i can't know if others also are and even if they are, whether their thoughts and feelings are comparable, but since from outside we behave in comparable ways (unlike a rock or a flower), it's reasonable to tentatively assume that they04:06
LjLare similar to me in those inner respects too04:06
LjLand by tentatively i mean... forever04:06
xxkinda sucks that I was the one who pushed for him to be promoted because we didn't want him to consider leaving the company04:07
rustynail1[m]i am trying to cut down on the alcohol.  i drink about ten 14 gram doses a day04:07
xxrustynail1[m]: that's like a shot a day :-\04:07
LjLxx, that's unfortunate, but for all you know it may have happened anyway04:07
rustynail1[m]not its not04:08
rustynail1[m]im talking 14 grams of pure ethanol04:08
xxno wait, *ten* 14g doeses? That's 5 shots04:08
xxthat's... really not good04:08
rustynail1[m]ten standard drinks04:08
LjLthat's alcoholism04:08
rustynail1[m]its ten shots04:08
LjLi just had a shot glass of limoncello, and i have one every day, and that's not good, but i do it anyway. but ten04:08
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Hong Kong "overwhelmed" as COVID infections hit record → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/ssspe7/hong_kong_overwhelmed_as_covid_infections_hit/04:08
rustynail1[m]a dose of ethanol here is 14 grams of pure ethanol04:08
de-factocan you slowly dilute the concentration, ramping it down over time?04:09
rustynail1[m]de-facto: well im trying to get to 804:09
BrainstormUpdates for Solomon Is.: +338 cases, +3 deaths since a day ago — United Kingdom: +1163 cases, +3 deaths since 3 hours ago04:09
rustynail1[m]then 5 or 604:09
de-factowell that or just mix more and more water in04:09
LjLmy limoncello shot always makes me hungry... at 4am ;(04:10
de-factoand maybe try to replace it with some positive habit if you can04:10
rustynail1[m]LjL: well i mean i am not having withdrawal symtoms at least i am working on it but yeah im not just going to quit out of nowhere i am using harm reduction04:10
rustynail1[m]i just have no one04:10
LjLde-facto, like the mints i compulsively eat instead of smoking? ;P04:10
xxLjL: isn't that you being dehydrated and confusing it for hunger?04:10
de-factoyes LjL exactly04:10
LjLxx, i suspect not, i just had some 300ml of herbal tea before the drink, but since hydration is the go-to of every doctor ever, i guess i'll drink another 300ml of random lukewarm water and let you know04:11
rustynail1[m]i do not know what to do.  maybe cutting from 20 mg to 10 mg of paroxetine will reduce the feelings i have that cause me to drink to get rid of the side effects04:11
rustynail1[m]i am miserable04:11
rustynail1[m]but i do not want to end up not being able to walk again04:12
rustynail1[m]plus i have no real pain relief besides this like i said04:12
rustynail1[m]the US undertreats pain04:12
LjLrustynail1[m], it would seem somewhat reasonable to me to reduce the paroxetine until the symptom comes back (hopefully not as strongly) and then keep it just above that point. but i'm not a doctor, and while i understand that you may not particularly trust your doctor, if you examine such a strategy, you should examine it with them04:13
rustynail1[m]LjL: yeah i am going to try the 10 mg for a while04:14
rustynail1[m]i am trying to drink calming tea in between drinks.  like sleepy tea like chamomile04:15
rustynail1[m]to sorta cut down04:15
rustynail1[m]LjL: doctors do not know either04:16
rustynail1[m]we do not even know why SSRIs work fully04:16
de-factoi mean how can you know that one problem you experience is not caused by one substance you take hence require treatment by another and so on? Like Elvis Presley etc. Maybe the generic aim of reducing doses may enable the body to find more balance on its own regulation processes04:16
rustynail1[m]a doctor is not going to help any better than reading medical literature tbh04:16
de-factoand good foods, mobility etc, if you can approach that as strategy with your MD04:17
LjLrustynail1[m], are you sure you can read medical literature with the required objectiveness while you're on paroxetine and 10 drinks a day, and scared to death that you may stop being able to walk again?04:17
rustynail1[m]plus i have a fairly obscure manifestation of OCD04:17
LjLi say this only partly because the doctor "knows better" about the medications, but also because the doctor is a third party to this04:18
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Vaccine scientists have been chasing variants. Now, they’re seeking a universal coronavirus vaccine. → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/sssw9f/vaccine_scientists_have_been_chasing_variants_now/04:18
LjL(or i guess a second party would be a more appropriate term here)04:18
rustynail1[m]LjL: i mostly drink in the evening04:18
xxrustynail1[m]: beware, a sudden decrease 20mg -> 10mg *will* have dangerous side effects04:18
xxyou really wanted to taper off SSRIs to lower doses04:19
LjLyeah, that's also why i was suggesting talking to you doctor, they should know what an appropriate taper-off is04:19
xxnot make jumps04:19
rustynail1[m]xx: ill be fine04:19
xxLjL: yeah, doctors won't really know04:19
rustynail1[m]20mg to 10 mg is not a huge jump.04:19
xxit's half04:19
xxthat's a big deal04:19
rustynail1[m]it cannot reliably split it into any less than that anyway tho04:20
LjLdon't they sell other dosages?04:20
xxI know some taper protocols do stuff like 20mg 10mg 20mg 20mg 10mg ...04:20
LjLalso there are pill cutters that can cut most things into 4 parts at least04:20
rustynail1[m]they sell 10 mg and 20 mg and up ive never been on anything other than 2004:21
xxbut you'd need to look it up04:21
LjLwell if they sell 10mg you can easily get 10+5, unless the pill is coated and must not be split04:21
rustynail1[m]it goes like 10 mg to 20 mg to 40 mg04:21
rustynail1[m]i am cutting from 20 to 1004:21
LjLwell, i can't stop you04:22
xxwell, it's voluntary04:22
LjLi can only point out that your doctor can't stop you either, so by talking to your doctor, you don't really lose anything04:22
xxbut the effects for someone who doesn't have liver in perfect conditions can be unpredictable04:22
rustynail1[m]i get what your saying but i have went a few days with nothing and no issues04:22
rustynail1[m]i am young04:22
rustynail1[m]i have not been drinking daily long04:22
xxnone of those "brain jolts"?04:22
rustynail1[m]i had blood work not that long ago04:23
rustynail1[m]no brain jolts no04:23
xx(there's a better term for it but I can't remember it)04:23
de-factojust speak with your MD about your strategy, even if its only on the phone or such, because as LjL said its a third perspective on it (with some background of experience)04:23
rustynail1[m]my blood pressure is a little high but my ALT etc is fine04:23
rustynail1[m]ok04:23
rustynail1[m]my blood sugar is fine04:24
xxanyway, they did show some beneficial effects of sertraline (zoloft, a SSRI) on covid outcomes, but it was still only initial stages04:24
rustynail1[m]well i am boosted too04:24
rustynail1[m]❤️04:24
de-factonice04:24
rustynail1[m]but obviously you guys are right i do not want it to get worse04:25
rustynail1[m]my blood pressure is high04:25
rustynail1[m]well a bit elevated.  pre hypertension levels .04:25
rustynail1[m]i do not smoke tobacco at least04:26
de-factome too04:26
de-factoelevated BP04:26
de-factoi just ignore it04:26
rustynail1[m]well i am in my mid 20s i have time to fix this04:27
rustynail1[m]but i need to fix it now04:27
de-facto145/8004:27
rustynail1[m]alcohol causes heart disease and cancer04:27
rustynail1[m]pancreatitis04:27
LjLde-facto, the systolic there is fairly high...04:27
LjLalso the pulse pressure04:28
de-factoyeah my normal value04:28
de-factoits like that with me, always04:28
* de-facto shruggs04:28
de-factoi feel fine though, wont take any meds for that04:28
de-factoi should do sports though, i am just too lazy04:28
xxde-facto: /join ##fitness04:29
rustynail1[m]i mean there is variation to some extent but maybe try increasing cardio04:29
xxwe do lifting04:29
de-factoat least i drive with the bicycle everyday04:29
xxI intend to lift my own bodyweight this year04:29
rustynail1[m]i walk everywhere mostly because i cannot drive04:29
rustynail1[m]but due to the alcohol my BP is high04:29
de-factoin the summer i used to go for a walk everyday, at least 1 hour04:30
de-factoi should do that again04:30
rustynail1[m]but some studies have at least shown better outcomes among alcoholics who excersize04:30
de-factoi always was listening to a podcast and walked in the woods or in the fields, it gave me mental piece and also mobility04:30
rustynail1[m]i just want my life back04:31
de-factohence you will get it back04:32
rustynail1[m]well i am trying to get down to 10 mg of paroxetine and 8 standard drinks well eventually less but 8 is at least a start04:32
de-factoi miss sunbathing, i really enjoyed that, we have a nice river here and i always was sunbathing in the grass there04:33
rustynail1[m]better than ten or sometimes 1204:33
de-factoit was a really nice experience, and heh it even gave moe some vitamin D levels04:33
xxde-facto: isn't that associated with skin cancer?04:33
de-factolol yeah, i dont care04:33
xxlol04:33
xxfair04:33
de-factoi mean i did not burn or roast myself04:33
de-factoand mostly it was in the afternoons anyhow04:34
de-factoso not so much short wavelength04:34
xxoh that's fine, you'll just have cancer in the afternoon then /s04:34
xxat least skin cancer is detectable if one is not being stupid04:34
de-factolol nope but also less Vitamin D, its mostly produced by the UV-B or such iirc04:34
xxjust eat foods that have vit d and take supplements04:35
xxI don't see the sun on most days04:35
xxand my vit d status is good04:35
de-factoa wavelenght that comes through our atmosphere if the light would not have to travel a too long path, hence may be more present if your shadow length is less than your actual height04:35
de-factohence noon times04:35
de-factoyeah i take 2000 IU Vitamin D3 daily as supplement since early 202004:36
xxit's surprising how little that has been mentioned in many countries that vit d supplementation is probably a good idea for covid outcomes04:36
xxbut there've been studies that said it's not true as well04:36
xxbut overall enough vit d is better than not enough04:37
xxand most of the US for example has a low level04:37
rustynail1[m]cases are decreasing by me04:37
rustynail1[m]maybe this is almost over04:37
de-factothis summer may be a good one04:37
de-factoafter that damn Omicron faded04:37
rustynail1[m]would be nice if cases keep going down04:37
LjLi feel there's a lot of taboo around vitamin D vs COVID in the medical community i feel, not quite as bad as ivermectin or what have you, but there have been so many studies showing correlation without causation, you know that's hated04:37
de-factoi guess they will go down, until next mutant comes in the fall04:38
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah04:38
LjLi think taking vitamin D in the winter is good advice for anyone in countries anywhere near my latitude, at least in the winter, and it *is* actually recommended for anyone over a young age by the NHS04:38
rustynail1[m]hopefully we will get out of this someday04:38
de-factowell Vitamin D is a substance also produced by the skin (from UV light)04:38
de-factoso its not a foreign substance to the body04:38
LjLso even if it does nothing for COVID, i think i'm really doing mo more than parroting the NHS's advice by saying people should take vitamin D except maybe in summer months04:39
de-factoits levels are just quite low in the winter in many places without sunlight exposure, for colored people, for elderly people etc04:39
xxfor IRC people...04:40
rustynail1[m]LjL: yeah i like nature made supplements along with vegetables.  studies show supplements may not be very bioavalible but nature made at least has quality control and alomg with whole food based diet may be at least somewhat beneficial.  especially for someone like me who drinks a lot04:40
LjLand since COVID hit, again regardless of its effect on COVID if any... we've had lockdowns, quarantines, all of that, i'm pretty sure people didn't see *more* sun on average than before04:40
rustynail1[m]i do not want a b1 deficiency04:40
de-factoi think its a good idea to take a reasonable dose of Vitamin D3, not crazy high, but also not just a bit04:40
xxrustynail1[m]: you do not want b12 deficiency either, which can happen in alcoholics...04:40
rustynail1[m]yeah04:40
xxand that one you don't recover fully from ever, it's permanent nerve damage04:40
rustynail1[m]i take a dedicated b complex supplement and eat food04:41
de-factohence me with my 90kg i went for daily 2000 iU i.e. 50µg04:41
LjLi take 1000 but i'm also 60kg04:41
xxI still can't believe that I might be heavier by the end of this year than you04:41
LjLxx, well i'm still kinda hungry despite the 300ml water so maybe you won't04:41
LjLthough i feel the water helped. or maybe just the waiting time between alcohol and the hunger stimulus04:42
LjLno, i mean, between the hunger stimulus from alcohol and the potential fulfilment of it04:42
de-factoi just eat anytime i feel hungry04:42
LjLwell there is such a thing as nervous hunger i'm afraid04:42
LjLi keep constantly eating mints. almost no calories but probably not ideal either.04:43
rustynail1[m]xx: yeah.  it occurs more in extreme alcoholics who do not eat much food but i do supplement and i mainly drink at night.  although it is true that alcohol damages your ability to absorb nutrients even when yiou are not actively drinking it04:43
de-factoyeah so if it calms me, why not04:43
rustynail1[m]but i do not think it is that bad yet04:43
de-factoi constantly eat all sorts of nuts that i keep in boxes on my desk04:43
LjLde-facto, well for starters because when i eat before going to bed i usually have awful sleep04:43
de-factoalso i always drink Green Tea with Ginger slices, i love that04:43
rustynail1[m]but yeah kosekoff syndrome is no joke04:44
de-factoall day long LOL04:44
LjLthat explains why you're nuts04:44
rustynail1[m]thats why im trying to cut down04:44
de-factoyeah completely, with no exceptions04:44
LjL:)04:44
xxrustynail1[m]: not familiar with that04:44
rustynail1[m]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke%E2%80%93Korsakoff_syndrome04:45
de-factocashews, one brazil, almonds, hazel, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, sunflower seeds, etc04:46
de-factoi really love roasted italian hazelnuts, sometimes i just cant stop to eat them04:46
rustynail1[m]i eat full meals daily which reduces the risk and take vitamins but still it is a risk04:47
xxrustynail1[m]: nasty stuff as well, but I'd imagine it's rare if one eats food04:48
rustynail1[m]the biggest risk is people who drink all day with no real food04:48
xxprobably end-stage alcoholics who don't eat at all, yeah04:48
rustynail1[m]well im not letting it get to that pointv04:48
rustynail1[m]i drank more at the start of the pandemic04:48
rustynail1[m]i was closer to like 15 standard doses of ethanol then a day04:48
rustynail1[m]sometimes 20 standard doses even04:49
xxwell shit04:50
xxyou must have missed out like half the pandemic then04:50
rustynail1[m]now im at 10 to 1204:50
rustynail1[m]xx: nah when ur tolerance grows you do not experience the same effect04:50
rustynail1[m]i can drink like 5 beers and be functional04:51
rustynail1[m]with no blackout04:51
xxI have bad experience with alcohol so I haven't touched that stuff since I was 18 or 1904:51
rustynail1[m]my tolerance to GABAminergic drugs has always been a bit high04:51
xxbut those numbers would kill me04:51
xxprobably even now04:51
rustynail1[m]i have such high baseline anxiety a few drinks just brings me to basically a regular persons state of mind04:52
de-factoi dont have problem with alcohol, but i was (and probably still am) very addicted to nicotine, i smoked 20 cigs per day04:52
de-factothen i got mad at myself when realizing that i placed myself in a risk group at the begin of the pandemic, hence quit doing harm to my lungs04:53
rustynail1[m]yeah04:53
de-factonow i dont smoke anymore, but i think i still am addicted to nicotine, so i never touch that stuff ever again04:53
rustynail1[m]my grandma died from tobacco04:53
rustynail1[m]had gangrene and cancer04:53
rustynail1[m]she had her leg amputated and died shortly after04:54
de-factoyeah something i dont want to try out04:54
rustynail1[m]alcohol has cardiocascular effects too i do not want to end up like that04:54
rustynail1[m]heart disease runs in my family too04:54
de-factoalcohol also increases cancer risk, damages immune cells and many other bad things04:55
rustynail1[m]yeah i know04:55
rustynail1[m]trying so hard04:55
rustynail1[m]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia04:56
rustynail1[m]this is my biggest problem from the meds i think04:56
de-factoyou really should get rid of that, maybe as a goal to be clean when the summer comes and Omicron is gone04:56
de-factomake a plan04:56
de-factountil when you want to achieve that, then intermediate goals for every day in between now and the goal04:57
rustynail1[m]i hope reducing to 10 mg will help with the restlessness and feeling of "dullness" like lack of dopamine or something.  idk it is like i need extreme things to feel any excitement.  hard to describe04:59
rustynail1[m]it leads to risk taking04:59
rustynail1[m]even though i know that alcohol is very bad for me04:59
rustynail1[m]it is like the meds have made me want instant gratification more than i ever did before05:00
rustynail1[m]i am glad i never got covid tho i am young enough the alcohol probably would not have worsened my outcome that badly however i do have autoimmune dysfunction albeit mild05:01
rustynail1[m]autoimmune diseases are still poorly understood and there is a so called kalidescope of autommunity where having multiple autoimmune diseases make you more likely to have systemic problems05:02
rustynail1[m]i have been losing hair recently.  likely from my drinking bring my autoimmune flares ups.  no other symptoms tho05:03
rustynail1[m]its not normal hair loss it is a destintive circular random parts of your head type thing05:03
de-factoi had severe house dust allergy, they gave me some meds that helped a bit, i took them a day or two then skipped it and just ignored it, now it went away by its own05:03
rustynail1[m]well i do not want this problem to become far worse where it for example causes my immune system to start attacking other areas05:05
rustynail1[m]❤️05:05
BrainstormUpdates for China: +1528 cases, +2 deaths since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +58 cases, +3 deaths since 4 hours ago05:05
rustynail1[m]i was mostly couped up during covid05:05
rustynail1[m]i am less couped up now to some extent05:06
rustynail1[m]i have gone to a few restaurants not that many but we never went too often in the first place tbh05:06
rustynail1[m]we probably went like twice a month before and maybe once every two months now05:07
rustynail1[m]maybe not even that05:07
rustynail1[m]i went to the pharmacy today and they had a massive box of n95 masks that they were giving away for free from that US government purchase.  every pharmacy has different brands tho they must have had to buy from various companies05:09
rustynail1[m]i received a ihealth covid test as part of a similar program too.  never heard of the ihealth one.  some are less accurate than others05:10
de-factothe cases in USA already went down quite a bit now05:11
de-factolooks like peak was around jan 12th05:11
rustynail1[m]yeah it is almost like too little too late for a lot of people05:12
de-factohere in Germany we may have our peak either now (one month later) or even later05:12
rustynail1[m]jen psaki laughed off sending test kits to everyone in the US but faced backlash so they reversed course and sent 4 to any house that applies05:12
rustynail1[m]jen psaki is the press secretary for our government05:12
rustynail1[m]she got in trouble for saying "what do you want me to do send everyone a test kit? " sarcastically05:13
rustynail1[m]so now we have 4 per house at least05:13
de-factohere we can buy the rapid antigen tests in every supermarket05:14
de-factoinitially they cost around 80 cent, now 2.40€ or such05:14
rustynail1[m]there is a shortage here due to the size of the country and lack of planning05:14
de-factowe dont have enough PCR tests though05:14
rustynail1[m]we usually are ok on PCR for the most part05:15
rustynail1[m]you just might have to wait hours sometimes05:15
rustynail1[m]or shop around05:15
de-factothey only are accessible to people that got a positive rapid test, and since rapid tests are a lot less sensitive people cant profit from the better sensitivity of PCR tests05:15
de-factoyeah big queues on the PCR testing centers, and days delay for results, a disaster05:16
de-factoso we have to get through this wave with the antigen tests05:16
de-factoand hopefully prepare more PCR capacity for the next fall05:16
rustynail1[m]de-facto: oh ok yeah we can get pcr just by going to a urgent care clinic.  it was not always that accesible and it probably still is not that accesible everywhere but it is better than it was for PCR05:16
de-factoin the summer there should be more than enough time (and few cases) to implement that05:16
rustynail1[m]we have big shortage of rapid antigen and molucular tests because people do not seem to want to go to the doctor for a variety of reasons.  i mean i have kinda avoided going lately too05:17
rustynail1[m]there is a lot of hoarding too going on05:18
de-factoi always went to my doc when i had to, i just did wear a good FFP3 mask the whole time05:18
de-factoN99 or P100 or what they are called in US05:19
rustynail1[m]i did not have any urgent medical issues at the time so i sorta avoided it but i have had at least one checkup during the pandemic05:19
rustynail1[m]there is such thing as an n99 yeah05:19
rustynail1[m]most wear n9505:20
de-factoi just went for nothing urgent but the normal stuff05:20
rustynail1[m]there are probably a lot more comfy styles of n9505:20
de-factoi really like the 3M 9330+ series05:20
rustynail1[m]that is prolly why n99 was not chosen instead05:20
rustynail1[m]n99 might be tough to function with comfort idk05:21
de-factoi wear them everyday, the whole day, without break05:21
rustynail1[m]really05:21
rustynail1[m]damn05:21
rustynail1[m]🥺05:21
rustynail1[m]❤️05:21
de-facto(i have a lot of contact to students, some of them may have got it)05:21
rustynail1[m]i cannot wait till we get rid of these masks lol05:22
de-factoi see 20 new people indoors for many hours every day05:22
rustynail1[m]yeah05:22
rustynail1[m]❤️05:22
de-factoso yeah i installed CO2 sensors, put fans at the windows and do wear FFP3, i got used to that, not uncomfy or such05:22
rustynail1[m]still i bet you will be happy when you do not have to wear it.  i mean they can cause skin irritation05:23
rustynail1[m]i have sensitive skin05:23
de-factoyeah i even let them stay when i go for the bakery or such, just because i forgot about it05:23
rustynail1[m]oh ok i mean i guess some people get so used to it that they do not even noticd it no more05:24
de-factoone household member got COVID in early January, i did not get it (boosted + that mask)05:24
rustynail1[m]🐻❤️05:25
rustynail1[m]grizzly bear protection05:25
rustynail1[m]*swats at covid with paw05:25
rustynail1[m]☠️👻05:25
rustynail1[m]opps sorry05:25
de-factoyeah i was not afraid, even had some conversations in same room with her, but i also did not really want to get that shit05:25
rustynail1[m]forgot about the emoji thing05:26
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah i talked to my family too with a mask on or at least ran thru the room fast a few times you know05:26
rustynail1[m]i may have gotten it but if i did it was very mild05:27
de-factoi have to admit i did make sure the mask edge was of airtight fit though, but i did not want to restrict presence too much inside my own household05:27
rustynail1[m]i have heard several anecdotal records of people who are boosted just getting mild sore throats with omicron05:28
de-factoso i guess that means masks+boosting does actually work05:28
rustynail1[m]maybe that is what happened to me05:28
de-facto(otherwise all those healthcare workers would also have catched it already)05:29
rustynail1[m]yeah05:29
de-factoyeah rustynail1[m] that makes sense05:29
de-factothe problem with them is they may propagate it though, the boosted themselves only get mild symptoms (same with that household member)05:30
rustynail1[m]it went away with water each day tho05:30
rustynail1[m]it would occur mainly when i would wake up05:30
rustynail1[m]yeah05:30
rustynail1[m]i do not go out much05:31
de-factofor example, right now i would not visit my parents, just so they stay isolated from my exposure risk here05:31
de-factothey are over 70 years old05:31
rustynail1[m]the sad thing is people here who are not vaccinated are mostly by choice.  there are a few medical exptions sure but it is mostly anti vaxxers05:31
rustynail1[m]de-facto: well yeah even people boosted have died in that age range05:32
de-factoyeah we have that problem here in Germany too, 2.4M non-vaccinated over 60 year olds05:32
de-factoso most likely they will face the virus with a naive immune system at some point in time05:33
rustynail1[m]🥺❤️ yeah that is sad that they are doing that with their lives05:33
de-factoand that may not go too well for some of them (the majority will be fine, but still)05:33
de-factoand that even when its known that 4 out of 5 hospitalized can be prevented by boosting and 9 out of 10 fatal outcomes05:34
xxit's been at least a year since the vaccine is available, by now it's simply their choice05:34
rustynail1[m]well even if they survive i was just thinking that is a lot of potential suffering to go thru for nothing05:35
de-factoproblem is that they occupy 5-fold of hospital capacity that they would if protecting themselves by preparing their immune system for killing the virus in time05:35
rustynail1[m]i mean my family friend lived but was on a ventilater for 40 some days and has permanent lung damage05:36
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah05:36
de-factoand apart from preventing the fatal outcomes, i think an even bigger issue may be the load of long lasting symptoms that recoveries suffer from05:36
de-factothose long COVID cases, they worry me a lot05:36
rustynail1[m]yeah me too05:37
de-factoyoung people, healthy in best working age, productive, smart, getting employed for their mental capacity05:37
rustynail1[m]i hope my cousin does not have permanent damage to her ability to taste and enjoy food05:37
de-factoif they end up with brainfog, fatigue, etc they may be much less effective if able to work at all05:38
rustynail1[m]i know a man who rapidly progressed into dementia in his 50s i believe maybe 60s but still he was fine before covid05:38
de-factofortunately vaccination seems to be able to lower the risk for long COVID symptoms quite a lot05:38
rustynail1[m]he can still function some but forgets his wife a lot05:38
de-factoalso heart inflammation is a LOT more common with COVID than with vaccination05:39
rustynail1[m]i was scared of covid too due to my autoimmune issues because it seems to trigger autoimmund reactions in people without such conditions in the first place at least temporarily05:40
de-factoso many young people (even mild cases) may get heart inflammation from COVID, and if doing sports to "recover" may make it worse possibly05:40
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah they fear mongered about that with the vaccines a lot here05:40
de-factowell COVID is a lot worse in that respect05:40
de-factoprobably by orders of magnitude05:41
rustynail1[m]myocarditis is treatable in most cases.  the benefits of the vaccine outweight the rare risk05:41
rustynail1[m]yeah covid worse05:41
rustynail1[m]covid causes myocarditis more05:42
de-factoi mean myocarditis appears 10-fold or 100-fold as often for COVID infected05:42
de-factoyeah05:42
rustynail1[m]and in combination with other organs being affected by covid could take a serious toll05:42
rustynail1[m]sometimes inflammatory episodes happen with vaccines05:43
rustynail1[m]but covid is much worse05:43
de-factowell it very much depends, maybe if the immune system is "entertained" by the vaccine antigen it may even forget to attack the own body (auto-immunity) to some degree05:44
de-factoits hard to tell, depends on so many variables05:44
rustynail1[m]with covid i have heard of cases sort of resembling something like systemic lupus where multiple organs are impacted by an autoimmune reaction.05:46
de-factoyes that also can happen i guess, the whole problem with COVID is the immune reaction to it05:47
xxI'm just waiting for the next variant where the major symptom is the irresistible urge to bite others05:48
de-factoshush05:48
xxincidentally, there's no research I can find about whether covid can be spread through human bites05:48
rustynail1[m]https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/autoimmune-response-found-many-covid-1905:48
rustynail1[m]ill have to see if i can find more about it05:49
de-factoactually that would be really scary: if a pathogen manages to influence the brain of its hosts in a way that increases its transmission, because once it managed to do that it will optimize on that by mutations05:49
de-factoxx the horror, we dont need a zombie apocalypse05:49
rustynail1[m]but basically my point was that i was worried with my autoimmune conditions that if i got covid it could lead to say inflammation in areas i had not previously experienced05:50
xxwe already live in some apocalypse, might as well add zombies to it05:50
rustynail1[m]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome05:51
rustynail1[m]like this for example which is sometimes trigger by an infection.05:51
de-factoyes good link05:51
rustynail1[m]more commonly infection than vaccination05:51
de-factoautoantibodies are a serious problem to some05:52
rustynail1[m]mine attack my hair and skin05:52
rustynail1[m]Rhemetoid arthritis has been identified in the family05:52
rustynail1[m]i need to be on the lookout to some extent for that05:53
rustynail1[m]these diseases are complex.  they can be limited to one area or multiple and can mofph at times05:54
de-factoi think medicine is about to make a big leap, with vaccine induced immuno-therapy in the future05:54
rustynail1[m]for example psoriasis can lead to psoriatic arthiritis and then even inflammation of the heart and other organs05:55
rustynail1[m]de-facto: i hope so05:55
de-factothe original intend decades ago with developing the mRNA technology was to stimulate the immune system to attack cancer cells (as a new cancer therapy)05:55
rustynail1[m]yeah will be great to see what the future holds05:55
rustynail1[m]the bald spot my immune system attacked is coming in nicely05:56
rustynail1[m]my skin has been ok lately05:56
de-factonow they proved how well that works with normal vaccination process, yet its possible to also encode other things in the mRNA, for example iirc BioNTech developed a vaccine that helps against MS05:56
de-factothey train the immune system to stop attacking the own body somehow05:57
rustynail1[m]but i do think drinking it what caused the bald spot in the first place since i have not had issues in a few years05:57
de-factoiirc it worked in an initial study05:57
de-facto.title https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aay363805:58
Brainstormde-facto: From www.science.org: A noninflammatory mRNA vaccine for treatment of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis05:58
rustynail1[m]yeah05:58
rustynail1[m]would be great05:58
rustynail1[m]the autoimmune drugs right now like methatexate and dven new janise kanise inhibitors like xeljanz are not ideal05:59
rustynail1[m]s/dven/even/05:59
rustynail1[m]they cause opportunistic infections05:59
rustynail1[m]like someone who has HIV06:00
de-factowell i guess this approach aims for fixing the cause not the symptom06:00
rustynail1[m]* they can cause opportunistic06:00
de-factoe.g. teaching the immune system to stop doing stupid things like attacking the own body06:00
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah06:00
rustynail1[m]cause the current approach is to basically induce a state of controlled AIDS in a metaphorical way06:01
rustynail1[m]it leads to autoimmune patients having to be very very cautious06:03
rustynail1[m]because of opportunistic infections06:03
de-factojust imagine, in the future, one would go to a pharmacy and get an individualized download for a treatment, they would print it out in mRNA and injecting it would teach the own body's immune system how to fix the problem06:03
rustynail1[m]we basically need an immune modulating approach like you said06:03
rustynail1[m]yeah06:03
rustynail1[m]like a cyberpunk 2077 type system06:04
rustynail1[m]well hopefully not as dystopian lol06:04
de-factomaybe some cases would require taking a sample and sequence it, send it to some company that may come up with a solution and offer selling the solution as information, as download for an mRNA sequence for the pharmacy to print out06:05
de-factoindividualized immuno-therapy06:05
de-factoprobably would be as highly specific as it can get06:06
de-factohence have as few side effects as possible as a well targeted approach solving the problem only06:06
rustynail1[m]that will be great  right now care is fairly general06:06
de-factoyep yet people are individuals06:07
rustynail1[m]right now for example we have a couple of classes of drugs to help autoimmune patients but none seem to help fully and none are very selecfive06:08
rustynail1[m]s/selecfive/selective/06:08
rustynail1[m]they all carry risk of serious opportunistic infection06:09
de-factoi mean the COVID induced auto-immune reactions you linked above, actually they also are a long lasting immune reaction to an antigen exposure, just in that case one that is bad (or non-beneficial)06:09
de-factoso such therapies need to be carefully desinged to be beneficial06:10
de-factobut just imagine, if one would be able to direct those auto-immune reactions to selectively only target cancer cells06:12
rustynail1[m]<de-facto> "individualized immuno-therapy" <- hopefully we can cure HIV somday soon before more varients emerge too06:12
xxrustynail1[m]: it's mostly cured06:12
de-factono hole body chemo therapy, rather highly trained assassins only killing the cancer cells and leaving healthy cells alone06:12
rustynail1[m]xx: well i mean yeah sorta06:12
xxanyone with access to HIV treatment will have a non-detectable viral load and will have same life expectancy as non-infected people06:12
rustynail1[m]i mean i see what u mean06:13
de-factoHIV is uncurable so far06:13
de-factoimpossible06:13
rustynail1[m]but people still have side effects from treatment06:13
de-factoif you got it, you will die with it06:13
xxbut not because of it06:13
xxif you got herpes, you will die with it06:13
rustynail1[m]you can get pre exposure pfophalaxis06:13
de-factosuppressing the problems with AIDS may make it possible to live a fairly normal live though06:13
rustynail1[m]prep06:14
xxprep and pep06:14
xxtruvada works06:14
rustynail1[m]and post exposure prophalaxis06:14
de-factobut without those drugs, people will die from AIDS 100%06:14
rustynail1[m]well yeah06:14
rustynail1[m]i mean that is true it is not literally cured06:14
xxwithout various drugs, people will die of a papercut if it was muddy06:14
rustynail1[m]but to be fair there are not many viruses with prep and pep06:15
rustynail1[m]hiv is uniquely disabled for now anyway06:15
xxyou can take tamiflu for influenza06:15
rustynail1[m]xx: tamiflu is not as effective are prep or pep tho06:16
rustynail1[m]prep and pep are amazing breakthrus06:16
rustynail1[m]s/breakthrus/breakthroughs/06:16
de-factobtw its very important to 1) diagnose HIV infections 2) treat as many of them as possible 3) make the best drugs available to everyone infected, even if people can not afford that personally06:17
rustynail1[m]i think there is even a once a month prep injection now iirc06:17
de-factobecause immuno-compromised (AIDS) will have ongoing viral infections06:17
xxthe drug is cheap, it's available as a generic now06:17
de-factotheir immune system is too weak to end many viral infections, hence initial contamination with one variant of a virus will diversify with time inside their body06:17
rustynail1[m]i mean i take tamiflu too at times not bashing it but i was just comparing to prep06:18
rustynail1[m]descovy06:18
de-factothey will reach a bigger genetic diversity by having the pathogen bloom into its phylogenetic tree, each new branch started by a new mutation06:18
rustynail1[m]descovy specifically is what i was comparing tamiflu to.06:19
rustynail1[m]i just meant that prep is fairly uniquely effective06:20
de-factoand if that can go on over long time the pathogen may "try out" many versions of mutations, hence the probability that at least some of those will optimize the pathogen for human biology (cell entry, immune evasion etc) is much higher in such a persistent infection than e.g. in healthy people with strong immune system or even vaccinated people06:20
de-factothat way new variants of concern of SARS-CoV-2 can emerge in immuno-compromised and if given the opportunity to jump over to another carrier may propagate into social networks that are more densely connected such as a tourist transporting it and importing it to a cluster spread (such as a party)06:21
de-factothat may then be the start of a new wave with a new mutant, spread worldwide via airplane in weeks06:22
de-factoso we really should make sure all HIV positive get the best treatment available06:22
de-factoe.g. in Africa06:22
rustynail1[m]<xx> "anyone with access to HIV..." <- yeah i wish more knew they had hiv06:22
rustynail1[m]de-facto: yeah06:23
de-factothis is one theory of the origin of Omicron btw06:23
rustynail1[m]oraquick is a rapid hiv test here it is free at many health departments but they say roughly 20% of of hiv positive americans do not know they have it i think06:24
de-factothere are many papers observing long lasting infections in immuno-compromised (e.g. AIDS patients) accumulating a LOT of mutations06:24
de-facto(note that i wrote AIDS patients, because well treated HIV positive can have quite a healthy immune system that kills COVID just as well as HIV negative)06:25
rustynail1[m]i am glad when i was raped that i did not get hiv06:25
de-factowow damn yeah that would have been horrible06:26
rustynail1[m]yeah post exposure pfophalaxis is truly amazing.  if anyone you know has been raped please tell them to get to an ER and get post exposure hiv drugs06:27
rustynail1[m]it can stop hiv from seroconverting06:27
de-factoalso injuries, e.g. when some crazy people run berserk with a knife stabbing many people or such06:27
de-factoyes06:27
de-factobut those have to be applied immediately06:28
rustynail1[m]well i mean at least with 48 hours06:28
de-facto(almost like preventing rabies when a rapid animal bites)06:28
rustynail1[m]within06:28
de-facto*rabid06:28
* de-facto cant spell, is half asleep already06:28
rustynail1[m]to be clear i am not saying wait but not all hope is lost after 24 hours06:29
rustynail1[m]with hiv you should absolutely try to get meds within  24 hours or less but even within 48 i would still try06:30
rustynail1[m]i was raped many times06:31
rustynail1[m]i am glad that i did not get hiv06:31
rustynail1[m]if i ever have it happen again i will be going instantly to the er for post exposure hiv drugs06:32
de-factosorry to hear, yet glad you did not get hiv of course06:35
* de-facto needs to catch some sleep, super late here06:36
rustynail1[m]night night06:37
de-factogn806:37
rustynail1[m]*hugs teddy 🐻❤️06:37
BrainstormUpdates for Novosibirsk, Russia: +5824 cases, +13 deaths since a day ago — Sabah, Malaysia: +4035 cases, +5 deaths since a day ago — Tatarstan, Russia: +3970 cases, +4 deaths since a day ago — W.P. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: +3955 cases since a day ago07:10
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): South African scientific dream team, again, helping the world with new knowledge to guide the fight to the pandemic! Unvaccinated + Omicron = Immunity to Omicron onlyVaccinated + Omicron = Immunity to Omicron and other [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/149346872824323686807:19
* rustynail1[m] hugs teddy08:24
rustynail1[m]i get anxious08:24
rustynail1[m]🐻❤️08:24
Malvolio(good night)08:25
rustynail1[m]i hope it will be ok soon08:25
rustynail1[m]Malvolio: good night i hope you have a good night08:25
rustynail1[m]❤️08:26
rustynail1[m]i appreciate you08:27
rustynail1[m]❤️🐻08:27
rustynail1[m]night night too me and teddy are going to bed.  🐻❤️08:28
BrainstormNew from MedicineNet: (news): Mandatory COVID-19 Tests Lifted for Vaccinated Travelers to Britain → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp08:44
BrainstormUpdates for Greenland: +2 deaths since 4 hours ago09:02
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | February 15, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ssxsym/daily_discussion_thread_february_15_2022/09:03
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): Women Excelling in Science & Embracing Novel Technologies in a Pandemic - Dr. Jenn Giandhari and  Houriiyah Tegally @Jenn_Giandhari @houzhou @StellenboschUni @UKZN23 Feb 2022 at STIAS or VIRTUALLY. In-person attendance followed by a 3-course lunch. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/149349807275584717309:23
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): It means that infection immunity after Omicron is fine against Omicron reinfection or a very similar but new variant. But, protection, without vaccination, against a different variant is very limited. Thus, as shown many times; vaccination remains key, → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149351972499460915210:41
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Opinion: ‘I trust my drug dealer more than I trust this vaccine’: A patient's vaccine hesitancy has taught me a lot about how to best care for people who use drugs — and reinforced how poorly the health care system treats her… → https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/15/i-trust-my-drug-dealer-more-than-i-trust-this-vaccine/10:51
xx^ drug dealers usually care about repeat customers, whereas big pharma gets money regardless10:52
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Again it shows good antibodies require the immune response to mature. Much of that happens in the lymph node Germinal centres"Antibody breadth against viral variants is lower after infection compared with all vaccines evaluated but improves over several [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149352881693277389211:20
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): "In contrast to disrupted germinal centers (GCs) in lymph nodes during infection, mRNA vaccination stimulates robust GCs containing vaccine mRNA and spike antigen up to 8 weeks postvaccination in some cases." → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149352881910122905711:30
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: New Leak Suggests Most Users Funding Canada's 'Freedom Convoy' Reside in U.S. → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/st06ez/new_leak_suggests_most_users_funding_canadas/11:49
BrainstormNew from WHO Euro: Risk remains high in eastern Europe and central Asia with arrival of COVID-19 Omicron variant: Across the entire WHO European Region, we have now recorded more than 165 million COVID-19 [... want %more?] → https://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/statements/2022/statement-risk-remains-high-in-eastern-europe-and-central-asia-with-arrival-of-covid-19-omicron-variant11:59
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: PIP: Opinion/decision on a Paediatric investigation plan (PIP): anti-CD40L humanized monoclonal antibody (SAR441344), decision type: , therapeutic area: , PIP number: P/0200/2021 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/paediatric-investigation-plans/emea-002945-pip01-2012:08
pwr22https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-pledges-1m-more-evusheld-doses-to-u-s-for-a-total-covid-deal-worth-855m12:46
pwr22.title12:46
Brainstormpwr22: From www.fiercepharma.com: AstraZeneca pledges more Evusheld doses to US, bringing its antibody supply deal to $855M | FiercePharma12:46
pwr22Looks like the US actually wants something from AZ again12:46
BrainstormUpdates for Indonesia: +57049 cases, +134 deaths since 23 hours ago13:00
BrainstormNew from PubMed: Worry about COVID-19 as a predictor of future insomnia: The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic resulted in significant increases in insomnia, with up to 60% of people reporting increased insomnia. However, it is unclear whether exposure to risk factors for the virus or worries about COVID-19 are more [... want %more?] → https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35165971/13:08
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Ali Ellebedy (@TheBcellArtist): New paper: We followed, in humans, as SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine induced B cell clones survived the trials and tribulations of the germinal center (GC) reaction and became affinity-matured circulating memory B cells and bone marrow plasma cells @nature [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TheBcellArtist/status/149354625552345497913:27
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: China's potential mRNA COVID vaccine weaker against Omicron-study | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st1wkj/chinas_potential_mrna_covid_vaccine_weaker/13:37
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid deaths in UK continue to fall: Death certificates suggest fewer people are dying with, or from, Covid. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-6038880513:47
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: TWiV 865: COVID-19 clinical update #101 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #101, Daniel Griffin discusses children and COVID, human challenge study results, effectiveness of mask use, Omicron boost in macaques, mucosal vaccine candidate, [... want %more?] → https://www.virology.ws/2022/02/15/twiv-865-covid-19-clinical-update-101-with-dr-daniel-griffin/14:06
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: TWiV 866: EV antibodies rEVolutionize our thinking: Amy returns to TWiV to discuss her work on the identification of cross-reactive antibody responses among diverse enteroviruses, and the implications for our understanding of viral pathogenesis and seroprevalence studies. → https://www.virology.ws/2022/02/15/twiv-866-ev-antibodies-revolutionize-our-thinking/14:16
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: China’s approval of Pfizer pill opens door to ending 'COVID zero' | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st31g1/chinas_approval_of_pfizer_pill_opens_door_to/14:35
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Protesters defy Trudeau's emergency powers with border blockades | 15FEB22 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/st339v/protesters_defy_trudeaus_emergency_powers_with/14:45
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): The state remains as absurd as ever as pandemic measures come to a close.Masks required in kindergarten classes but not in bars and gyms.Stupid, indefensible, idiotic … and everyone knows it … and yet it is still being done.cnn.com/2022/02/14/us/… → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/149358388228913972214:55
BrainstormNew from Politico: Matt Hancock breached equality law over Dido Harding appointment, court rules: High Court finds former health secretary breached legislation designed to eliminate discrimination in two top pandemic appointments. → https://www.politico.eu/article/matt-hancock-breached-equality-law-over-dido-harding-appointment-court-rules/15:15
BrainstormNew from BioNTech: BioNTech to Join High-level Meeting with Partners in Marburg and to Hold Press Conference to Provide an Update  on Sustainable Vaccine Manufacturing in Africa: MAINZ, Germany, February 15, 2022 – BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, [... want %more?] → https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-join-high-level-meeting-partners-marburg-and-hold-press15:45
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: NYT Science (@NYTScience): In museum and hospital collections, some disease detectives are seeking samples leftover from the Russian flu pandemic of the late 19th century, hoping it could yield clues to what will become of Covid-19 nyti.ms/3gNvcjU → https://twitter.com/NYTScience/status/149359817413254760816:05
BrainstormNew from Pfizer: Anonymous: European Medicines Agency Approves Pfizer’s 20-Valent Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine Against Invasive Pneumococcal Disease and Pneumonia in Adults → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/european-medicines-agency-approves-pfizers-20-valent16:15
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Derek Lowe (@Dereklowe): I've had a lot of requests to rebut a lot of coronavirus conspiracy theories. But here's why I'm not jumping on that task:science.org/content/blog-p… → https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/149360759079797555416:35
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @ScienceTM "Our data highlight the need for booster vaccinations as the nAb response elicited by a two-dose vaccine regimen wanes over time and is largely ineffective against the Delta and Omicron variants by 6 months."science.org/doi/10.1126/sc… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149361054348308071516:44
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Simultaneous infection with both Delta and Omicron variants in 2 immunocompromised people further highlights the importance of genomic surveillancemedrxiv.org/content/10.110… @rockett_rebecca and colleagues @Sydney_Uni pic.twitter.com/RwBOZkBK0j → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149361376488051508816:54
BrainstormNew from Pfizer: Anonymous: Pfizer and OPKO’s Once-Weekly NGENLA™ (somatrogon) Injection Receives Marketing Authorization in European Union for Treatment of Pediatric Growth Hormone Deficiency → https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-opkos-once-weekly-ngenlatm-somatrogon-injection17:14
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Stress Among Final Year BAMS Students in Relation With Covid Lockdown Through CSSQ-a Cross Sectional Survey → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524108017:24
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Mortality of Cancer Surgery During SARS CoV2 Pandemic → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524037817:34
BrainstormNew from LitCovid: (news): Consecutive Waves of COVID-19 in Iran: Various Dimensions and Probable Causes. → https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/publication/3515293717:44
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: When to Apply to Which Patient in MSC?: Condition :    COVID-19 Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524043018:03
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid in Wales: All five to 11-year olds offered jabs: Wales' health minister says she is following unpublished advice from the UK's vaccines advisers. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-6039470918:13
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Tigray: the challenges of providing care in unimaginable conditions: During a pre-covid sabbatical in Ethiopia, one of the world's poorest countries, we had the privilege of seeing many healthcare facilities. Working for almost three months, we visited tertiary,... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o400.short18:42
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @CDCMMWR todayThe US spike in Omicron wave hospitalizations among children and teens, especially for age 0-4 yrs. For age 12-17, unvaccinated accounted for 90% of hospitalizations. cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… pic.twitter.com/aIGlNbE8L2 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149364607196837068819:11
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): To be clear: as I’ve written many times, infection-acquired immunity played a significant role in building England’s immunity wall, esp in second half of 2021, but steep drop in IFR during first half of the year was very clearly primarily due to [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/149364911028876493019:21
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): I think some of the good-faith questions about relative roles of vaccination and infection are from folks who fail to realise quite how much faster and larger vaccine rollout was compared to "virus rollout".During 2021, *far* more people got [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/149365099097693388919:31
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Protection of Covid newborn/infant hospitalizations by expectant mothers getting vaccinated, vaccine effectiveness: overall 61%; 80% for vaccination >20 weeks of pregnancycdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… @CDCMMWR pic.twitter.com/caKnYOiLYT → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149365492407628185619:40
BrainstormUpdates for Myanmar: +2467 cases, +3 deaths since 19 hours ago — Italy: +71023 cases, +388 deaths, +695744 tests (10.2% positive) since 19 hours ago — Netherlands: +53564 cases, +15 deaths since 19 hours ago — United Kingdom: +47124 cases, +237 deaths, +959737 tests (4.8% positive) since 19 hours ago20:04
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: The Human Nose Organoid Respiratory Virus Model: an Ex Vivo Human Challenge Model To Study Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Pathogenesis and Evaluate Therapeutics → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/staiqw/the_human_nose_organoid_respiratory_virus_model/20:20
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The importance and motivational impact of conveying hope during the pandemic.by @M_B_Petersen and colleagues @HopeProject_dknature.com/articles/s4159…@SciReports pic.twitter.com/6MvGJ5K1NH → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149366570565221990920:30
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Feb 15, 2022: High COVID hospital bills Estrogen and COVID-19 death → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-19-scan-feb-15-202220:50
LjL<Brainstorm> New from Science Daily: MRI sheds light on COVID vaccine-associated heart muscle injury: Vaccine-associated myocarditis shows a similar injury pattern on cardiac MRI compared to other causes of myocarditis, but abnormalities are less severe, according to a new study. → https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220215102839.htm21:21
LjLan analysis of what the vaccine-induced myocarditis is *like* should be welcomed, i believe, since there's mostly just this "mild and self-resolving*" (* in the short term, we know nothing else) handwaving21:22
LjLi may not like though that they looked at the situation radiologically at first, then went "At short-term follow-up (median 22 [IQR 7-48] days), all patients with vaccine associated myocarditis were asymptomatic with no adverse events", and... no comparison of radiological findings? do they just expect them to be unchanged after only 22 days?21:25
LjL"Of the patients with impaired LVEF on MRI, 4/6 had subsequent transthoracic echocardiography or follow-up MRI which demonstrated normal LVEF in all."21:27
LjLbut not the same method of diagnosis...21:27
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Surveillance of Myopericarditis following COVID-19 Booster Dose Vaccination in a Large Integrated Health System → https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/stbi6p/surveillance_of_myopericarditis_following_covid19/21:28
LjL"There were no deaths in any group. As expected, the follow-up duration for the other two groups was much longer than for the vaccine group, given the relatively short time interval over which COVID-19 vaccines have been administered." ← so i guess all in all this study is nice in that it shows what the radiological findings are *at the time of the event* compared to other types of myocarditis, including COVID-19 induced which is often what gets compared, but i21:29
LjLt doesn't say much on even short-term outcomes nevermind long-term ones21:29
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Good to see the universal vaccine (vs β-coronavirus) work getting the front page attention it deserves washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02… by @Carolynyjohnson w/ @DennisRBurton @scrippsresearch pic.twitter.com/oGNoLyusTU → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149368488911105638821:38
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Good editorial by @DrMarcSiegel on how the @Novavax vaccine fits inwsj.com/articles/covid… pic.twitter.com/oBrYBeY1JM → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149368998778670694521:57
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Latest CDC Data: Unvaccinated Adults 97 Times More Likely to Die from COVID-19 Than Boosted Adults → https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/stdqy0/latest_cdc_data_unvaccinated_adults_97_times_more/22:27
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: As COVID-19 ebbs in US, parts of Europe light up: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Feb 15, 2022 A steady drop in US cases includes a substantial decline in children's infections, but in parts of eastern Europe, cases have doubled over the past 2 weeks. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-19-ebbs-us-parts-europe-light22:57
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Study suggests maternal COVID-19 vaccination protects babies: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Feb 15, 2022 A second study shows how hard Omicron has hit kids, especially the unvaccinated. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/study-suggests-maternal-covid-19-vaccination-protects-babies23:07
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Effectiveness of Maternal Vaccination with mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine During Pregnancy Against COVID-19–Associated Hospitalization in Infants Aged <6 Monthscdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149371159116197069523:26
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Why is a 3rd dose of vaccine, not specifically designed to protect against variants, so effective against Omicron-induced severe disease?The role of Memory B cells, with their capacity to make antibodies of greater potency & breadthbiorxiv.org/content/10.110… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149371424846730445023:36

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