libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2022-02-17

BrainstormNew from WebMD: Vaccination Reduces Chance of Getting Long COVID, Studies Say: Vaccination against COVID-19 reduces the risk of developing long COVID and improves long COVID symptoms among those who were unvaccinated when infected, according to a new comprehensive review [... want %more?] → https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220216/vaccination-reduces-chance-of-getting-long-covid-studies-say00:06
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Josiah 'So Mild' Grindrod (@JT_Grindrod): When you use your "freedom" to go back to a 2019 life, you doom others to be locked down forever. But enjoy sitting in a restaurant inhaling SARS, while remembering that previous SARS infection is going to be a "comorbidity" soon. twitter.com/_Bethan_Jones_… → https://twitter.com/JT_Grindrod/status/149408852495339110600:25
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Articles] Global, regional, and national prevalence estimates of physical or sexual, or both, intimate partner violence against women in 2018: These findings show that intimate partner violence against women was already highly prevalent across the globe before [... want %more?] → https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02664-7/fulltext00:35
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Mental health in people with covid-19: In April 2021, we published a large-scale systematic characterisation of the clinical manifestations of long covid—the post-acute sequelae that result from an infection with SARS-CoV-2.1 We followed... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o415.short01:42
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): There are now 4 studies that show natural immunity (NI) plus 1-shot for preventing infection is superior to NI, unvaccinated and that more than 1-shot makes no difference. 2 of these were reported today @NEJM My summary table pic.twitter.com/iOFw62ifh2 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149410985197840384201:51
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): These add to my recent review of Prior Covid and how natural immunity + 1 shot should be considered "fully vaccinated" (and = 3 mRNA shots)erictopol.substack.com/p/ground-truth… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149411201251889971202:01
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The 1-year impact of Covid on mental health disorders is profound, as shown this comprehensive assessment of >150,000 people (21,000 not hospitalized), 90% men, w/ controlsbmj.com/content/376/bm…@bmj_latest @zalaly @WUSTLmed @VeteransHealth pic.twitter.com/k6fOOAj3X7 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149411555477641216102:10
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "Now, a giant new study shows people who contracted COVID-19 faced substantially higher risks of neuropsychiatric ailments 1 year later, including brain fog, depression, and substance use disorders."@ScienceMagazine by @meredithwadman nytimes.com/2022/02/16/hea… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149411650083104768802:20
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The first cases of HIV were 40 years ago and there's no vaccine and a total of 3 cures.The first cases of Covid was just over 2 years ago and highly effective vaccines have saved more than 1 million American lives. → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149412052113431347502:29
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: AstraZeneca wins another round in an escalating battle over a drug discount program: In the latest twist in a closely watched legal battle, a U.S. judge ruled that a federal agency incorrectly threatened AstraZeneca with penalties for curtailing discounts to a [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2022/02/16/astrazeneca-hhs-340b-hospitals/03:17
BrainstormNew from NPR: Disney theme parks say face masks are now optional for vaccinated visitors: Walt Disney World and Disneyland do not require proof of vaccination to enter but Disney says guests who aren't fully vaccinated must continue to wear face [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/02/16/1081331346/disney-parks-masks-optional-vaccinated-visitors03:27
LjL%title https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/02/16/1081331346/disney-parks-masks-optional-vaccinated-visitors03:33
BrainstormLjL: From www.npr.org: NPR Cookie Consent and Choices03:33
LjLfigures03:33
TuvixWhat, Brainstorm didn't confirm the cookie choices before prsenting the <html> title attribute component? :P03:34
TuvixWhile there is evidence that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected (or infected as severely which may translate to less potent/long spread,) the VE against infection is perhaps not significant enough to make going maskless purely based on vaccination status that useful.03:35
TuvixPerhaps using that in combination with other factors like local spread and other metrics, like outdoor vs. indoor, how good the air-exchange is, and so on.03:36
LjLthe more you make the rules intricate, the more people will just do what they decide for themselves03:36
TuvixI may go to some local diners and bars again, but only the ones that support outdoor seating until things change. Seeing as the temperature here is well below freezing for highs most days, that'll be a couple months yet.03:37
TuvixOh, sure, you really want whatever metrics set to determine more simple rules, something like "Based on current conditions, masks are required for all guests indoors; feel free to take your masks off when outside buildings at your preference."03:37
TuvixThen you just have your staff update the guidance based on whatever metrics you're using.03:37
LjLItaly has switched back and forth around the issue of masks outdoors a few times, and regardless of what you think of that particular measure... i think it highlights the reality that at some point, a few people are going to wear masks anyway even if you don't mandate the, and a few aren't gonna wear them even if you mandate them. both groups are numerous (at least here, maybe the *initially* strict mandates helped) but they don't change all that much when the law03:38
LjLchanges.03:38
TuvixThat keeps it simple for guests, but still allows some control to keep both guests (some which may be at-risk themselves) and staff safer. Of course, most business don't want to do that.03:38
TuvixWell, the US has the opposite approach, with very few required rules, and a lot of highly confusing guidance that, at the national and most state levels, is hard to follow and often behind the science by months.03:39
TuvixWe sort of shrug and let people figure it out, and all the while blast them with far too much information that even I have a hard time determining when I'd be required to mask up in any given part of the country without a decent amount of research ahead of time.03:40
TuvixSay you picked a random city I would be travelling to for a business or personal trip; I'd probably spend the next 30-60 minutes figuring out what state, county, and city rules existed, and if any travel plans crossed local jurisdiction borders, I'd have to look up their rules too.03:40
TuvixPeople who aren't me? They won't bother. As you say, they'll just overlay their own understanding onto the whole trip and not bother changing their approach or views unless forced to.03:41
TuvixIn more uplifting news, the CDC 7-day death toll is now "only" 20.7 times the average annual death rate of influenza.03:43
Tuvix(down from 21.8x with yesterday's 7-day moving aveage)03:43
BrainstormUpdates for France: +100339 cases, +276 deaths since 13 hours ago — New Zealand: +1541 cases since 21 hours ago — Germany: +75184 cases, +279 deaths since 13 hours ago — Netherlands: +63955 cases, +18 deaths since 21 hours ago04:08
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A 5-day pill pack with this efficacy and safety is 2nd after vaccines as the most important medical advance for the pandemic → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149414617973033779204:15
LjLfar from me to be empathetic with politicians, but i just imagined being a decision-maker in New Zealand and being like "okay, we've kept it out for two years, but I think it's not tenable anymore... so I'm just about to decide that a deadly pandemic is going to enter our country starting NOW"04:28
BrainstormNew from ##covid-19 resources: ljl-covid: Re-enable multireddit, as it's actually enabled in the actual bot anyway → https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/a67f746a0d01c2c4a596b168bc8071246f4800b404:44
de-factogigantic mistake04:45
TuvixMaybe, but they're starting from a much better spot than my favourite comparison Doing-It-Wrong country, my own.04:46
de-factoi think most people dont realize what an endemic SARS really means04:46
de-factoits going to stay like this, indefinitely04:46
de-factosome years it will be worse, others better, depending on mutants04:47
TuvixI mean, at the moment that looks like ~10x annual death vs. influenza (US figures, although it's going to be higher than flu pretty much everywhere for the time being) plus all the non-fatal impacts, long-covid, economic impacts, etc.04:47
TuvixUS is closer to 12, but I'll optimistically assume we'll be closer to the 8-10x range, at least until a new varient that's at least as bad as Delta for impact comes along to make me give the virus better odds at dealing fatal damages04:48
LjL-MatrixI wonder if EU countries are playing any tricks with the numbers. Italy is currently showing a nice smooth downwards trajectory (at least if you smoothen it on offloop :P anyway it's less jumpy than some other countries) but if you look at the positive rate rather than the cases, it has more or less settled around 11%. So are the cases actually going down in the fashion the graph shows, or is it really more like Greece where they went down05:26
LjL-Matrixfor a while but then stopped going down, but the appearance is maintained by testing progressively less?05:26
LjL-MatrixAlthough I guess for now the deaths are also following the downward trajectory so that's reassuring, but as usual the deaths are delayed05:26
TuvixAt least if you're using the US as a comparison, I don't think it's a numbers game if you look at the cases / hospital admits / ICU patients / deaths OWID chart; it's clear the US  is doing something producing very different results than any similar economic peer by contrast.05:27
TuvixNot unless every EU nation is deflating their ICU and hospital admits, and that seems like a pretty basic metric even pre-pandemic times to have figured out in terms of logistics.05:28
TuvixDeaths too; my go-to comparison with the US has been the UK since, up until just before Delta, the US & UK were pretty neck-and-neck for outcomes look at fatalities and overall response. Then things changed: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&time=2020-11-01..2022-02-14&Metric=Cases%2C+hospital+admissions%2C+ICU+patients%2C+and+deaths&country=USA~GBR05:30
TuvixBetween early & late 2020, the US & UK basically just traded when the worst of the death toll occurred as a factor of our various responses to the early pandemic. But starting around when vaccines were available, the UK started to do notably better, which is really a combination of vaccine, social, & political factors. At no point since vaccines came out has the US seen less death (per capita) and at no05:33
Tuvixtime during the entier pandemic has the US had better ICU stats either.05:33
TuvixSame with US vs. ITA: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&time=2020-10-26..2022-02-14&Metric=Cases%2C+hospital+admissions%2C+ICU+patients%2C+and+deaths&country=USA~ITA05:36
TuvixAt the point when Delta began sweeping the US (early Jan, 2021) note similar reveral in trends where the US & Italy were more or less trading when we each had peaks in cases/hospital/ICU/deaths.05:36
TuvixSuddenly, the US is not only worse on all fronts, but our spikes are consistently much worse05:37
TuvixWell, similar case incidence spike, but that only means the US handled our cases far worse, although this said both Italy & the US saw similar death peaks from Omicron. The US just started from a much worse place in Delta.05:38
TuvixI suppose this also means Italy saw a much worse _rise_ in cases from Delta to Omicron, whatever that tells us.05:38
TuvixLjL-Matrix: Were restrictions notably relaxed between say October and the rise of Omicron?05:39
TuvixItaly hadn't seen the Omicron death toll figures until going back to spring, 202105:40
LjLTuvix, i honestly don't remember. they were tightened *with* the rise of omicron, with masks mandatory outdoors again and the green pass stuff05:40
LjLin the summer we generally have had *fewer* restrictions05:40
TuvixAh, so it may have been seeing what was coming and trying to reduce metrics where possible. Italy still did better in death outcomes than the US, but not by as much as some other EU comparison countries.05:40
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: COVID-19 patients may have increased risk of developing mental health problems according to large study of patients in the Veterans Health Administration system. People who had COVID-19 were 39% more likely to be diagnosed with depression and 35% more [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/suf8pk/covid19_patients_may_have_increased_risk_of/05:41
TuvixCompare that to notably better ICU & hospital outcomes, despite similar case incidence (and we can also surmise the testing differences could make cases a less interesting benchmark)05:41
LjLTuvix, and yet we are vaccinated a ton :\05:42
TuvixOverall I'd say Italy did better if only because of the reduced incidence of hospital/ICU stress for theoretically similar cases, but the death toll is less impressive as an Italian success if the US is the measuring stick.05:42
LjLit's quite depressing to see the deaths approach the 2021 spring ones, when we've been between 80% and 90% vaccinated (under some metric, full, not boosted) in the meanwhile05:42
TuvixYea, I'd made similar comparisons to Omicron vs. last winter (Alpha here, I think in Italy too) based on the all-ages log charts I'd published before, just this time including Jan 2022.05:43
TuvixOur youngest ages, 1-4 years old actually have done the worst in Omicron all-pandemic :\05:43
TuvixThey're also the ones not eligible for vaccination, although our 5-11 age group has really bad vaccine uptake too.05:44
LjLit's important that ICUs are less crowded and everything05:44
rustynail1[m]🥺❤️🐻05:44
LjLbut ultimately i personally find it important not to die, and not to have my family die05:44
rustynail1[m]sad05:44
TuvixWell, the US has failed on the ICU/hospital metric, significantly.05:44
LjLand when i see the death figures still be so high despite all this vaccination... bleh05:45
LjLTuvix, i mean in Italy, with vaccine uptake much higher than the UK05:45
LjLbut i'm trying to show the angle where the vaccines aren't this huge "miracle" after all. *without* the vaccines, Omicron would probably have been much, much worse than what preceded it... *with* the vaccine, ICUs are less crowded and the deaths are a bit less, but not so much05:46
LjLi'll take it, but a miracle is something else05:46
rustynail1[m]there even cases where people were deliberately given placebo by anti vaccine workers.  i do not think it happened on a mass scale at least i hope not 🥺05:46
LjLmine could have been placebo for all i know, since all i felt was a bit of arm pain :P05:47
rustynail1[m]they went around thinking they were vaccinated05:47
LjLbut i have good reasons to doubt it, luckily05:47
LjLi've heard of such things, yeah05:47
LjLi hope it's criminally prosecuted as it deserves to be05:47
rustynail1[m]that is unreal05:47
rustynail1[m]yeah05:47
TuvixThere were some reported cases (I forget where now, but frankly nowhere would suprise me) where some nurses were giving saline injection to anti-vax patients so they could claim they were vaccinated.05:48
TuvixVery uncommon, and it's obviously medical malpractice, but with all the crazy stuff going on in the anti-vax movement encouraged by social media, that's also not suprising that it occurs in tiny amounts.05:48
rustynail1[m]yeah it has become outrageous.05:48
TuvixThe bot linked it a couple days back, but apparently the Canadian truck protest was funded by almost half by people tied to US-addresses.05:49
rustynail1[m]i got my vaccines from multiple soures the first two from the same source and the booster a walk in clinic type pharmacy05:49
TuvixTurns out even when it's a neighboring country, the US anti-vax movement is *still* responsible for a large part of it :(05:49
rustynail1[m]90% of truckers are vaccinated05:49
TuvixYea, ditto; I got my first 2 from a pretty large mass-vaccination clinic put on as a combination aid of local health departments, the country's National Guard, and a state-run effort.05:50
rustynail1[m]in canada05:50
TuvixOver 90% IIRC, and yea, most of the professonal trucker's groups were very much against the road blockades.05:50
rustynail1[m]yeah they talked about it non stop on the news here cable news.  my parents treated it like a WWE match05:51
TuvixMeanwhile, compare vaccination uptake between US & CAN: ttps://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2021-02-01..2022-02-14&Metric=Vaccine+doses%2C+people+vaccinated%2C+and+booster+doses&country=USA~CAN05:52
TuvixThen compare outcomes, same time-interval but this on a log-scale to account for the Omicron values and allow them to be shown on the same graph:05:53
Tuvixhttps://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&time=2021-02-01..2022-02-14&Metric=Vaccine+doses%2C+cases%2C+ICU+patients%2C+and+deaths&country=USA~CAN05:53
TuvixAll this said, Canada also saw the same massive rise as I noted with Omicron deaths that Italy saw. However, the US was still worse, and our rise is only less notable because here stateside we did so poorly recovering from Delta.05:55
rustynail1[m]im on mobile05:56
rustynail1[m]they kinda look similar vaccination dose wise05:56
rustynail1[m]but i could be seeing it wrong on mobile05:56
TuvixUS/CAN? Yea, they're a lot closer than some other places. However, Canada has *many* more boosted.05:56
TuvixAnd boosting matters a lot for Omicron outcomes.05:56
TuvixPretty big fully-vaccinated comparison too.05:57
TuvixUS has maybe 63% looking at that graph, while CAN has about 80%.05:57
Tuvix(fully vaccinated)05:57
rustynail1[m]oh ok05:57
TuvixThat in combination with Canada having had more legit restrictions and a less anti-vax culture (or at least the pockets of it the US has) are all likely factors in outcomes.05:58
rustynail1[m]yeah05:58
TuvixPlus Canada's healthcare system is vastly different than its southern neighbor05:58
rustynail1[m]many are refusing booster here05:58
TuvixEven 2-doses helps to a point, but the waning effectiveness is quite significant in outcomes05:59
rustynail1[m]i know people who got johnson and johnson and have not been back since too05:59
TuvixThe CDC recently published some charts on the comparison between 2 vs 3 doses in Delta vs Omicron as a factor of time.05:59
rustynail1[m]a single johnson and johnson shot too05:59
rustynail1[m]i do not want to risk the neurological problems.  i know someone who rapidly progressed into dementia after covid and has no short term memory anymore and long term starting to fade too06:01
rustynail1[m]that would be unreal06:02
TuvixIt seems that even where Covid isn't directly responsible for some of the non-fatal symptoms, it seems to have an ability to make an existing issue worse, or cause it to manifest where it would have been dormant for many years if not for the virus.06:02
rustynail1[m]to just get sick one day and never recover your mind06:02
rustynail1[m]yeah06:03
TuvixThere's a growing body of research on this effect in children, such as the discussion around MIS-C and similar problems.06:03
TuvixThis was witnessed pretty early on in the pandemic too; you may recall the "Kawasaki-like" disease that was discussed, and that may have been more related to what we're understanding now is MIS-C06:03
rustynail1[m]yeah that was what i was worried about too it causing my existing autoimmune problems to get eorse / morph into different symptoms06:04
rustynail1[m]this has all been very scary06:04
rustynail1[m]i cannot believe people do not take this seriously06:04
rustynail1[m]even if your young hell you do not know what is lying dormant in you06:05
TuvixUltimately it's about risk mitigation. It's rather similar to what we learned about smoking over the decades.06:06
rustynail1[m]plus i know people who needed to go to the hospital and if capacity was full perhaps they would have died06:06
TuvixIt used to be smoking was very common, and I even know people who served in the military where one guy I know started smoking because only the smokers got smoke breaks. It took hims yeras to quit.06:06
rustynail1[m]yeah06:07
rustynail1[m]i smoked for like 4 years06:07
TuvixSame story though; at first laws to curb the impact are fought because of a perceived assault on freedom, then there's the questioning of the science, and slowly, over time, acceptance that the harmful effects are real and we have safe ways to reduce the harm.06:08
TuvixThat's been true with smoking, seat-belts, smallpox vaccines, and now COVID vaccines.06:08
rustynail1[m]i quit with nicotine patches but had a few cigarettes after that but did not buy a pack myself and eventually fully quit with vaping weed.  i do not vape nearly as much as i smoked tobacco tho.  i would smoke like every hour.  i just vape in the evenings or occasionally during the day.  nicotine patches really helped actually06:09
TuvixI remain convinced most of those declining vaccines wouldn't have done so if COVID-19 was no worse than it is, but gave people the skin boils smallpox did; their vanity would have encouraged far more vaccine uptake.06:09
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 867: I love the smell of vaccines in the morning: TWiV reviews an experimental, intranasally administered SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that utilizes adenovirus vectors to deliver three viral proteins and induces immunity to ancestral and variant isolates. → https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-867/06:10
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: yeah probably06:10
rustynail1[m]it is crazy that we organized a global mass smallpox vaccine campaign06:11
rustynail1[m]and have not since06:11
TuvixThere were people who fought aginast that too.06:11
TuvixThere was even a supreme-court case that required a man refusing to take it: look up the Jacobson v. Mass SCOTUS case.06:12
TuvixAnd further, that very case was referenced in some lower-court decisions about state & local vaccine mandates in the US over COVID-19, and the high-court has *not* overruled any of those judgements.06:12
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +241444 cases since 16 hours ago — Belgium: +12714 cases, +54 deaths, +53611 tests (23.7% positive) since 23 hours ago — India: +30757 cases, +1247481 tests (0.1% positive) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +63960 cases since 23 hours ago06:12
TuvixThe sad reality this time is that there's more skepticism, made worse by national political leaders up to and including a former president and many politicans from a specific party who are happy to push such messaging for political points.06:13
rustynail1[m]yeah06:14
TuvixSocial media is a factor too, allowing small pockets of the very few who hold such views to be amplified. What used to be some crazy guy on the corner on a literal soapbox can now go viral on Twitter & Facebook in minutes.06:14
rustynail1[m]my parents are heavily into covid disinformation06:14
rustynail1[m]my whole family is actually except for a few06:15
rustynail1[m]even the medical workers.  none are scientists tho.  medical directors and nurses etc06:15
TuvixYea, but they're not the source of it, from what you're saying; they're merely consuming the deliberate misinformation put out by others.06:15
rustynail1[m]yeah06:16
TuvixWell, medical staff to a point; most take their oath to do no harm very seriously, but some states are making it easier to perscribe downright bogus treatments and shield such medical staff from being punished under various licensing boards.06:16
rustynail1[m]yeah06:17
rustynail1[m]it is becoming unbearable06:17
TuvixRegulation is important to a point, but ensuring that it's medically-sound when what you're regulating is the medical industry is also crucial.06:17
rustynail1[m]i am honestly scared to trust doctors in my area at this point06:18
rustynail1[m]i look up extebsive background on them now06:18
rustynail1[m]what their politics are etc06:18
TuvixJust like you don't want a painter deciding policy for our police or national army, you don't want uninformed politicians deciding how to enforce technical medical behavior.06:18
Tuvix(assuming said painter was not actually a police or army expert, of course, which is hopefully obvious.)06:19
rustynail1[m]where i live they publish heavy amounts of voter data06:19
rustynail1[m]lol06:19
TuvixBackground research is good if you're seeking medical advice, but also just having a frank conversation with them before you choose to use them as your general practice doctor or such.06:19
TuvixOnce you have a GP and medical practice you trust, they can help you find experts if you need a referral for some specific condition.06:19
TuvixAlso, just bringing some of your own questions and asking for specific answers can help too. Obviously at some point you have to trust your doctor, but if something doesn't sound right, they should be more than willing to help clarify what they're recommending and why.06:21
rustynail1[m]i worry about being on a ventilator or something and being given incermection and hydrochloquine and no other treatments 🥺🤬06:21
TuvixYou may not understand all the highly technical bits, but it's also a doctor's job to help explain your options and why they've made a specific recommendation on treatment.06:21
rustynail1[m]s/incermection/ivermectionand/, s/and/hydroxychloroquineand/, s/hydrochloquine and//06:21
TuvixYea, you'd mentioned; look up how a living will works. There are programs and even legal groups dedicated to helping create these.06:22
rustynail1[m]:)06:22
TuvixYou might even have a state or county-run hotline to call who might be able to direct you to local resources, some of which might even be free or low-cost depending on your needs.06:23
TuvixDon't discount some of these resources if what you seek are specific answers to questions about navigating pandemic-related concerns.06:23
rustynail1[m]it is unreal how many doctors have abused me sexually, profit wise, malpractice, ableism, not treating pain, not doing lab work for drugs that absolutely need it.  general neglect.06:23
rustynail1[m]malicious druggjng06:24
rustynail1[m]abandonment06:25
rustynail1[m]so i am still looking i guess06:25
rustynail1[m]it is not that i do not trust doctors as a profession06:28
rustynail1[m]i mean it just seems like at least where i am and where i have been so far they have been scammers06:28
rustynail1[m]in my adult life06:28
TuvixYou probably should seek groups to help with those other issues. If there's nothing more appropriate, the state Attorney General's office can probably help.06:29
rustynail1[m]i have had great psyicions assistents as well and nurse practioners that seem to care tho06:29
rustynail1[m]Tuvix: well i mean that will not help.  some were psychiatrists for example who can just say i am insane or something06:31
rustynail1[m]there is a huge power dynamic difference06:31
rustynail1[m]if i was rich i could sue prolly06:31
TuvixA state AG is there to follow-up on legal matters for average citizens as well; it's very different from a civil lawsuit.06:32
Tuvixhttps://www.usa.gov/state-attorney-general06:32
TuvixThere's also this US resource: https://www.rainn.org/resources06:33
rustynail1[m]thank you06:37
rustynail1[m]i am struggling with PTSD from multiple times it happened from various people06:38
rustynail1[m]i am trying not to drink as much06:39
rustynail1[m]i also worry about the misinfo my family is hearing disinformation really06:40
rustynail1[m]it is very stressful06:40
TuvixIt can be. There's info out there on how to have some of those conversations too; this podcast I dug up from my history was a decent discussion you might want to add to your list sometime when it's not as stressful to consider the topic: https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2021/09/02/miller-reaching-out-to-people-who-are-still-unvaccinated-for-covid1906:42
rustynail1[m]i get paranoid too that someone is analyzing my traffic patterns to hurt me.  for example someone doing a pen register just saw that i visited those two sites.  after talking to you06:45
rustynail1[m]that could be anyone here06:45
rustynail1[m]i am being hunted that adds to the distress06:46
TuvixIf that's a concern for you, consider using a privacy-aware browser, such as: https://www.torproject.org/download06:47
rustynail1[m]i do06:47
rustynail1[m]i run a relay06:47
rustynail1[m]even still just get nervious06:47
rustynail1[m]s/nervious/nervous/06:47
rustynail1[m]a story just came out06:48
rustynail1[m]the police are using rape kits to use as dna to compare for crimes06:48
rustynail1[m]"crimes"06:48
rustynail1[m]https://apnews.com/article/crime-california-san-francisco-sexual-assault-3dcd00bf0522ce7c39bb2a7ec53cf7d306:49
rustynail1[m]they are probing victims for a single puff off a marijuana cigarette or minor "crimes"06:49
rustynail1[m]with dna from rape kits06:49
rustynail1[m]this means any dirt they want to dig up on you.  your done if you ever been raped06:50
rustynail1[m]almost every american commits multiple felonies a day06:51
rustynail1[m]our laws are so broad06:51
rustynail1[m]there was a huge backlog of rape kits.  now they get to them and they are being used against vicfims06:52
rustynail1[m]this victimizes people even worse then the act in many cases06:52
rustynail1[m]who knows how many cases of this are happening around the country06:54
rustynail1[m]it is getting bad out there06:55
rustynail1[m]i never trusted the police as a male rape victim anyway06:55
rustynail1[m]now even less06:55
TuvixUm, you may be better off contacting a group you can reach without providing personal info, as I gave above. The ##covid-19 channel probably cannot help you meaninfully here. Do it over a clean PC running Tails ( https://tails.boum.org ) if you'd prefer, or use a prepaid phone or something for phone numbers.06:56
TuvixThe 2nd link specifically has a reference for that very issue too.06:56
rustynail1[m]yeah i use qubes os and grapheneos06:56
rustynail1[m]tails not as safe as qubes os06:56
rustynail1[m]do you mean raiinn right ?06:58
rustynail1[m]when you said second link06:58
TuvixYea06:59
rustynail1[m]i have a gaming pc and security pc seperate06:59
rustynail1[m]oh you mean they talk about using a burner phone ?07:00
TuvixNo, I mean about the situation you discussed above; I'm not sure this channel is going to be very useful for any of it, however.07:01
rustynail1[m]yeah qubes os better cause if rainn tries to exploit me with a 0 day07:01
rustynail1[m]https://www.rainn.org/resources  but u meant this link right07:02
rustynail1[m]i just need to keep rainn from attacking my pc07:02
rustynail1[m]or one of their affiliates07:03
rustynail1[m]i can talk to them thru a defense in depth approach tho07:03
rustynail1[m]that way they cannot call 911 or locate me07:04
rustynail1[m]or swat me07:04
rustynail1[m]sometimes when 911 is called they SWAT you07:04
rustynail1[m]then they hurt you07:06
rustynail1[m]and take you to a hospital place i cannot afford to go there and be exposed to covid07:06
BrainstormUpdates for Krasnoyarsk, Russia: +7193 cases, +24 deaths since a day ago — Sabah, Malaysia: +5082 cases, +9 deaths since a day ago — Bashkortostan, Russia: +4105 cases, +19 deaths since a day ago — Tatarstan, Russia: +3746 cases, +5 deaths since a day ago07:09
rustynail1[m]<Tuvix> "No, I mean about the situation..." <- that is ok i can see if this link can help: https://www.rainn.org/resources  i just hope they do not exploit me07:14
BrainstormNew from MedicineNet: (news): COVID Vaccine in Pregnancy Guards Against Infection in Newborns → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp07:45
BrainstormUpdates for Cambodia: +444 cases since 18 hours ago08:11
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | February 17, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/sujhd0/daily_discussion_thread_february_17_2022/09:02
BrainstormNew from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): M-M-RVaxPro, measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (live), Rubella;Mumps;Immunization;Measles, Date of authorisation: 05/05/2006, Revision: 28, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/m-m-rvaxpro09:22
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: ‘What we have in Florida is inadequate:’ State’s COVID monitoring system leaves public blind to new variants → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/sukkkj/what_we_have_in_florida_is_inadequate_states/10:19
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): So finally the Covid vaccines are offered to children 5-11 in the U.K. That took some time. twitter.com/ukhsa/status/1… → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149424663923355238610:48
xrogaanPeople here will resonate with this: https://xkcd.com/2582/10:55
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Why the new normal might be the old normal—but worse: When Russia named its SARS-CoV-2 vaccine Sputnik V we entered a space race in all but name. Russia was first to announce the efficacy of its vaccine—without supporting data (doi:10.1136/bmj.o321).1... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o398.short11:56
BrainstormUpdates for Brunei: +2015 cases since 21 hours ago — France: +101506 cases since 21 hours ago12:02
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on country response measures to COVID-19: This downloadable data file contains information on non-pharmaceutical interventions (or response measures)  that countries in the EU/EEA have reported to date. → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/download-data-response-measures-covid-1912:16
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Spikevax (previously COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna), COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 06/01/2021, Revision: 18, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/spikevax12:44
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen, COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Revision: 17, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/covid-19-vaccine-janssen13:04
BrainstormUpdates for Indonesia: +63956 cases, +206 deaths, +572855 tests (11.2% positive) since 22 hours ago13:05
BrainstormNew from NPR Science: The surgeon general's young daughter got COVID. This is what he wants you to know: This past weekend, U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy wasn't a leading scientific voice on the pandemic — he was another worried parent whose young daughter had just tested positive [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1081217962/covid-vaccine-tests-positive-surgeon-general13:14
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Important study out in Nature: From this, the mRNA vaccines seem far superior to infection in subsequent protection. IMO, this explains what has been seen on the ground.See the striking difference. You want to be at zero here. 1/@Folkehelseinst [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149428506705672601713:24
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): @Folkehelseinst @jonasgahrstore @ingvildkjerkol Link⬆️"the samples from mRNA vaccinated individuals had a median of 17 times higher RBD antibody levels and a similar degree of increased neutralization activities against RBD-ACE2 binding than those from [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149428612418496921613:33
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): @Folkehelseinst @jonasgahrstore @ingvildkjerkol This adds to other research showing that you are not well protected against SARS-CoV-2 infection after having had Covid-19. You still need to be vaccinated in order to be protected from further infections. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149428964561350246513:43
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Plus vax effect wanes & after 2 doses mRNA vax "the Omicron variant spike protein can almost completely escape from neutralizing antibodies elicited in recipients of only two mRNA vaccine doses"➡️You are not protected against O after 2 dosesGet [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149429181814561997013:52
BrainstormNew from The Atlantic: COVID Is More Like Smoking Than the Flu: It’s suddenly become acceptable to say that COVID is—or will soon be—like the flu. Such analogies have long been the preserve of pandemic minimizers , but lately they’ve been creeping into more enlightened circles. [... want %more?] → https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/02/covid-anti-vaccine-smoking/622819/14:12
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Gunhild Alvik Nyborg (@GANyborg): Kids may not even get T cell responses after mild infection but may brush it off & get little if any protection vs severe disease. Preprint"rapid clearance of SARS-CoV-2 in children may compromise their cellular immunity and ability to resist reinfection" [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/149430423978240409614:42
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Covid-19: China’s president orders Hong Kong to control outbreak: China’s President Xi Jinping has ordered Hong Kong to get a handle on its covid-19 epidemic amid a wave of newly confirmed cases in the special administrative region.Xi said the “overriding mission”... → http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o420.short15:01
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael R. Strain (@MichaelRStrain): THREAD. One of the most striking features of the response to the pandemic was a singular focus on protecting adults from contracting Covid, including those who have been vaccinated, with insufficient attention being paid to the needs of children. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/MichaelRStrain/status/149430899201696153915:12
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): In addition, some studies test the effect of vaccination after infection, with vaccinated participants reported their symptoms improved than unvaccinated. pic.twitter.com/nOEJrD50xe → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149431509331989708815:21
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: TWiV 867: I love the smell of vaccines in the morning: TWiV reviews an experimental, intranasally administered SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that utilizes adenovirus vectors to deliver three viral proteins and induces immunity to ancestral and variant isolates. [... want %more?] → https://www.virology.ws/2022/02/17/twiv-867-i-love-the-smell-of-vaccines-in-the-morning/15:31
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): More than 3,000 American Covid deaths yesterday.Think about it. pic.twitter.com/02PlA5IgUP → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149432309187433267316:01
oerhekseric topol; just +2,802 deaths, silly dude16:05
oerheksunreliable source16:05
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The main side effect of Paxlovid was dysgeusia (in 5.6%), a distorted sense of taste, mechanism unclear. It's  interesting since the drug takes down the virus's main protease, and this symptom is shared with some people who get Covid. → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149432550032336896216:11
oerheksprove it, eric topol?16:17
eckssays right there in the linked article16:21
undefined_bob^^16:22
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): End of certificate requirement and isolation of risk contactsThe Government decided to withdraw the digital certificate requirement (only at borders). The negative test requirement is only for access to large events. dn.pt/sociedade/siga… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149433127676493006016:31
BrainstormUpdates for Myanmar: +2692 cases, +1 deaths since 23 hours ago — Germany: +188521 cases, +62 deaths since 13 hours ago — Switzerland: +8793 cases, +12 deaths, +68488 tests (12.8% positive) since 13 hours ago — Canada: +1541 cases, +41 deaths since 13 hours ago17:08
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Pulmonary Rehabilitation for Long COVID (Post COVID-19 Condition) → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524404417:09
BrainstormNew from LitCovid: (news): Phytocompounds and COVID-19: Two years of knowledge. → https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/publication/3517009317:19
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Effectiveness of COVID-19 Vaccines Against the SARS-COV-2 Delta (B.1.617.2) → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524433018:08
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): COVID-19 & Psychiatry: A Retrospective Chart Review → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0524409618:18
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Lisa Jarvis (@lisamjarvis): Yes, we have 2 antiviral pills, but even as we debate taking off our masks and tucking away vaccine cards, we need to keep pushing to expand our options. I looked at what else is in or near the clinic & what we want out of the next wave of Covid pills: [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/lisamjarvis/status/149435953291449958618:28
de-facto.title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa211854218:31
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nejm.org: Oral Nirmatrelvir for High-Risk, Nonhospitalized Adults with Covid-19 | NEJM18:31
de-facto.title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmatrelvir18:32
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Nirmatrelvir - Wikipedia18:32
de-facto"Nirmatrelvir is an antiviral medication developed by Pfizer which acts as an orally active 3C-like protease inhibitor.It is part of the nirmatrelvir/ritonavir combination sold under the brand name Paxlovid."18:32
de-facto"A total of 2246 patients underwent randomization; 1120 patients received nirmatrelvir plus ritonavir (nirmatrelvir group) and 1126 received placebo (placebo group)."18:36
de-facto"In the planned interim analysis of patients treated within 3 days after symptom onset (modified intention-to treat population, comprising 774 of the 1361 patients in the full analysis population), the incidence of Covid-19–related hospitalization or death by day 28 was lower in the nirmatrelvir group than in the placebo group by 6.32 percentage points (95% confidence interval [CI], −9.04 to −3.59; P<0.001; relative risk reduction, 89.1%);"18:37
de-facto"the incidence was 0.77% (3 of 389 patients) in the nirmatrelvir group, with 0 deaths, as compared with 7.01% (27 of 385 patients) in the placebo group, with 7 deaths."18:37
de-facto"Efficacy was maintained in the final analysis involving the 1379 patients in the modified intention-to-treat population, with a difference of −5.81 percentage points (95% CI, −7.78 to −3.84; P<0.001; relative risk reduction, 88.9%)."18:37
de-facto"All 13 deaths occurred in the placebo group. The viral load was lower with nirmaltrelvir plus ritonavir than with placebo at day 5 of treatment, with an adjusted mean difference of −0.868 log10 copies per milliliter when treatment was initiated within 3 days after the onset of symptoms."18:37
de-facto"The incidence of adverse events that emerged during the treatment period was similar in the two groups (any adverse event, 22.6% with nirmatrelvir plus ritonavir vs. 23.9% with placebo; serious adverse events, 1.6% vs. 6.6%; and adverse events leading to discontinuation of the drugs or placebo, 2.1% vs. 4.2%)."18:37
de-facto"Dysgeusia (5.6% vs. 0.3%) and diarrhea (3.1% vs. 1.6%) occurred more frequently with nirmatrelvir plus ritonavir than with placebo."18:38
de-facto"Treatment of symptomatic Covid-19 with nirmatrelvir plus ritonavir resulted in a risk of progression to severe Covid-19 that was 89% lower than the risk with placebo, without evident safety concerns. (Supported by Pfizer; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04960202)"18:38
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: Pfizer criticized over patent strategy for Covid-19 pill, despite a deal to broaden access in poor countries: Pfizer has agreed to make its Covid-19 pill available in 95 low and middle-income countries. But it still faces questions about whether its patent strategy [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2022/02/17/pfizer-covid19-paxlovid-patents/18:57
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @CDCMMWR An Omicron outbreak and the importance of booster shots for protectioncdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… pic.twitter.com/iPOMu6PPWG → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149437174346871193819:07
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): New analysis of patients admitted *WITH* vs *FOR* covid at four U.S. healthcare systems from 3/20–8/21 put incidental admissions at 26%. Tracks other studies which have put pre-Omicron figure at ~20%. This is info CDC should have been reporting [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/149437755401845965519:36
oerheksScott +1, scientists are bad in statistics19:38
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Jeremy Faust MD MS (ER physician) (@jeremyfaust): This tracks my clinical experience and my research with other large data sets. Most Covid admissions remain *due* to Covid, while some are not. twitter.com/scottgottliebm… → https://twitter.com/jeremyfaust/status/149438040583904051819:46
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Listen: Robert Califf’s FDA return, the future of CRISPR, & another vaccine delay: Will there be a new ALS drug this year? What business does Wall Street have with CRISPR? And when can kids get Covid-19 vaccines? Find out on the latest episode… → https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/17/podcast-robert-califf-fda-return-crispr-future-vaccine-delay/20:15
LjLsorry i need to test something20:18
LjL%title https://example.com20:18
BrainstormLjL: From example.com: Example Domain20:18
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): More than 1 million lives have been in lost in the United States due to Covid  washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02…It would have been more than 2 million without vaccinescommonwealthfund.org/publications/i… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149439854517610497620:54
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): COVID reinfections surge during Omicron onslaughtnature.com/articles/d4158… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/149440618036564377921:23
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Feb 17, 2022: Vaccines against long COVID Promising COVID-19 antiviral combo → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-19-scan-feb-17-202221:52
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: COVID vaccines offer lasting protection against reinfection, studies find: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Feb 17, 2022 One study shows more than 90% vaccine protection post-infection, even when the shot follows [... want %more?] → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/covid-vaccines-offer-lasting-protection-against-reinfection-studies-find22:02
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Mask requirements continue to fall as Omicron surge recedes: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Feb 17, 2022 The University of Wisconsin and Purdue University announce the easing of mask requirements. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/mask-requirements-continue-fall-omicron-surge-recedes22:12
BrainstormNew from Contagion Live: Today’s Google Doodle Honors Dr. Michiaki Takahashi, Inventor of the Chickenpox Vaccine: The varicella zoster (chickenpox) virus has been essentially eradicated thanks to the vaccine developed by Japanese virologist Dr. [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/today-s-google-doodle-honors-dr-michiaki-takahashi-inventor-of-the-chickenpox-vaccine22:31
TuvixOh man, that 'with' vs 'for' article the bot cited above is really dubious; their claims that PCR false-positives are common actually cite papers that show that it's false *negatives* that are more common, which we knew from similar papers on the false-negative rate of PCR (and antigen tests too.)22:46
TuvixFurther, that paper cites papers that talk about antigen tests, but the referenced claim for the those citations is specifically *PCR* tests. Those are some really basic mistakes for a paper that wants to be taken seriously.22:46
TuvixTake this excerpt from one of the citations claiming that PCR tests are so frequently false-positive as to cause issues classificying hospital patients (this seems to be a *bogus* claim.)22:48
TuvixThe *actual* claim they've completely misunderstood says this, in reality:22:48
Tuvix"After hospital discharge or discontinuation of quarantine, the patients were asked to continue the quarantine protocol at home for 5 days. The RT-PCR tests were repeated 5 to 13 days later and all were positive. All patients had 3 repeat RT-PCR tests performed over the next 4 to 5 days and all were positive. An additional RT-PCR test was performed using a kit from a different manufacturer and the22:48
Tuvixresults were also posi- tive for all patients."22:48
Tuvix"Discussion | Four patients with COVID-19 who met criteria for hospital discharge or discontinuation of quarantine […] had positive RT-PCR test results 5 to 13 days later. These findings suggest that at least a proportion of recovered patients still may be virus carriers."22:49
Tuvix"Although false-negative RT- PCR test results could have occurred as suggested by a previ- ous study,6 2 consecutively negative RT-PCR test results plus evidence from clinical characteristics and chest CT findings suggested that the 4 patients qualified for hospital discharge or discontinuation of quarantine."22:49
TuvixSource: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762452 (this is one of the citations the bogus paper I'm debunking here claim supports their "false-positive" claims.)22:50
BrainstormNew from ScienceNews: An anime convention in November was not an omicron superspreader event: Vaccines, ventilation and other safety measures probably prevented the variant’s spread at Anime NYC, reports suggest. → https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-omicron-anime-convention-nyc-superspreader-event22:51
TuvixWhat a horribly dishonest take on evaluating clinical patient charting. It completely misses both the fact that ICU _and_ deaths were up significantly in the summer wave of 2021, beginning July through Sept for Delta.22:56
TuvixHah, if you read carefully enough, the article I now classify as junk even *admits* they found data abnormalities in their own conclusions:23:00
Tuvix"In the case of codes for acute kidney injury, further investigation is needed to determine whether SARS-CoV-2-associated acute kidney injury (including COVID-19- associated nephropathy) occurs in patients we otherwise classified as having incidental admissions."23:00
TuvixSo, that translates as, roughly (my words here) 'our machine-learning returned results that even we can't explain, and we'll instead wave our hands and say that we may have poorly trained our machine becuase of a lack of understanding of what COVID does to the body.'23:00
ArsaneritThat's the summary for a lot of papers, replacing "of what COVID does to the body" by whatever the paper is about.23:03
ArsaneritPutting "machine learning" in the research proposal opens a lot of money bags not otherwile open these days.23:03
TuvixWell, they should have hired someone to pick non-crappy citations, because the very things they claim by cited papers actually say the complete opposite in some cases, as I pointed out.23:04
ArsaneritPublish or perish.23:04
TuvixAnd yea, ML may well have been a "we have a cool idea and now just need $500k to support our complex team of people we hired!"23:04
TuvixThe whole paper is just one dishonest claim after another, backed by citations they obviously didn't even hire a research assistant to read.23:05
ArsaneritThey're in a hurry, you don't expect them to read the papers they cite, do you? </s>23:05
TuvixHey, if *I* can do it for free, surely they can find somoene with a clue to pay for it. But yea, either time, or I didn't dig into all the authors, for all I know there's some conflict here. I don't care to go that deep into it, really.23:06
ArsaneritWe already have a postmodernism generator, where is the covid-paper generator?  There's more than plenty of material by now to train an AI that's slightly smarter than a markov chain and churn out papers.  They'd probably be accepted by the paper mills, too (at a fee).23:06
TuvixIt mostly caught my attention due to someone here claiming that it was important enough to "+1" and all the expected anti-vaccine anti-COVID replies on twitter.23:06
ArsaneritThere are too many bad papers out there for anyone to pick apart in a lifetime.23:07
TuvixWell, this was my paper of the week to dig into, and pull up enough of the citations to demonstrate that the claims they're making are, if not completely wrong, massively overstated, likey due to the poor methods and lack of basic cross-checks.23:08
ArsaneritSounds like they should have asked you for peer review.23:08
TuvixOh, see, I'm just some non-medically trained "nobody" you see ;). I couldn't *possibly* be their "peer" :D23:08
ArsaneritIs it in a reputable journal?  Then you could write the editor if you cared enough.23:09
ArsaneritYes, peer review has serious issues.23:09
TuvixNo, it's a preprint, I just got annoyed at the twitter chatter and someone here who has been sniping fairly unhelpful comments.23:09
ArsaneritOh, it hasn't actually been peer reviewed yet?  Then there is still hope.23:09
TuvixSo I figured I'd debunk it, becuase I do care about misinformation, and while the bot links all kinds of preprints, this one is especially bad and deserved some attention in-channel.23:09
ArsaneritLife's too short to get annoyed at twitter chatter.23:09
TuvixJust like we discuss _good_ preprints here, this was the bad one I took aim at.23:10
TuvixI've got a family member who works with ML and biology-based systems in particular, but it's a lot of work to design them in a way that's actually useful to researchers in the target field.23:10
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Large study reveals clearer links between COVID-19, mental health risks: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Feb 17, 2022 "We need to ... address these conditions now before they balloon into a much larger mental health crisis." → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/large-study-reveals-clearer-links-between-covid-19-mental-health-risks23:10
TuvixI also wonder if that ML crap-paper played games intentionaly with the data cutoff; the only say they included data "between 3/2020 - 8/2021" but does that include August? If they "cleverly" omitted the full month of August ("between" meaning 'not to include' in that case) it's VERY dishonest to say hospital admissions were lower in summer. If you include August, they obviously were not "low" as shown in:23:18
Tuvixhttps://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-12-15..2021-08-31&Metric=Hospital+admissions&country=~USA23:18
TuvixNow, if you move the end-time bubble to back up 1 month, you'll see the claimed "low" hospital admit rate in summer. But it's dishonest in Feb 2022 to claim that summer saw low case incidence and hospital/ICU admission :\23:19
TuvixEHR + ML is just a bad choice for a paper like this. I guess that explains all the issues in it.23:28
TuvixWell, it's a bad choice for the theory they were attempting (and, IMO, failed) to demonstrate.23:29
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): My @TIME Essay: As the pandemic has evolved, most Americans have acquired immunity to Covid, and the risk it poses has declined. Approaches adopted when we had few tools to prevent spread are no longer providing benefits that always justify their [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/149444081821143859223:40
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): We just had a highly informative  conversation with @dr_kkjetelina—"Your Local Epidemiologist"—about vaccines for young children, how to communicate pandemic science to the public, death threats, love, and more. With @cuttingforstone @Medscape [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/149444522725954358423:59

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