Vall | Howdy c0rnelius | 01:41 |
---|---|---|
hyrcanus | maammal | 01:41 |
Vall | Now that Chimaera is official, will you release an image for it? | 01:42 |
Vall | s/image/RPi4 image | 01:42 |
hyrcanus | idk | 01:44 |
hyrcanus | what for | 01:47 |
c0rnelius | Vall: Yeah I can do that, I've been doing requests. You just want a Pi4 img? | 01:50 |
c0rnelius | There is a problem with the latest kernel release so the imgs will still be on 5.10.63 when I make them. | 01:52 |
c0rnelius | https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/4631 | 01:52 |
c0rnelius | 5.10.73 is killing boards. | 01:52 |
Vall | eeech | 01:52 |
c0rnelius | or sd cards I should say | 01:52 |
Vall | ouch | 01:52 |
Vall | lemme read the issue | 01:52 |
gnarface | i vote for pine64_plus too | 01:53 |
c0rnelius | Yeah I made a bunch for release from Beowulf to Chimaera and it killed my Pi3A+. Had to re-flash the card. | 01:53 |
hyrcanus | image means work for kernel. should be seperate from OS globbing | 01:54 |
c0rnelius | So I purged the whole build. Gonna give it a few days. | 01:54 |
c0rnelius | gnarface: I can make those, but I wouldn't be able to provide kernel support. | 01:54 |
c0rnelius | Bluetooth is wonky on it as well. Works on first boot but on reboot, it doesn't come back. Need to power it down, haven't figured out why yet. | 01:55 |
c0rnelius | Happens in Debian and Ubuntu as well. | 01:55 |
gnarface | i think the phones were having the same problem | 01:55 |
c0rnelius | Wouldn't be surprised. | 01:56 |
c0rnelius | Vall: Give me a day and upload some images. | 01:56 |
c0rnelius | You'll be able to find them at the request link -> https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder/releases/tag/image | 01:57 |
Vall | c0rnelius: no hurry, mate. My new Sandisk MAX SD card won't probably arrive until next week at the earliest | 01:58 |
Vall | please take your time | 01:58 |
c0rnelius | Vall: alrighty | 01:58 |
* Vall is really anxious to get his hands on the new card and compare it to his 10-year old 8GB Class 4 SD currently being used | 01:59 | |
c0rnelius | It will be way.. better. | 02:00 |
c0rnelius | I recently moved mine to an ssd so I could free up an sd card for other stuff. | 02:01 |
Vall | re kernel SNAFUs, I think it all started going downhill after 2.6.x when Linux and GregKH and the other kernel gods gave up on having "stable" (even release numbers) and "development" (odd release numbers) | 02:01 |
Vall | SSD connected via USB3, right? | 02:02 |
c0rnelius | Yeah USB3 | 02:02 |
c0rnelius | I see off and on issues in stable releases, but its pretty shitty when an LTS kernel is killing ur board. I think this is the second time have had this prob on 5.10.y with foundation kernels. | 02:03 |
Vall | Is USB3 a better interface, hardware-wise, than the one used for SD cards on the RPi4? | 02:04 |
c0rnelius | Vall: Depends what ur using it for really. SSD off USB3 will be faster than an SDCARD. | 02:05 |
c0rnelius | Pis aren't know for quality sdcard slots :) | 02:05 |
c0rnelius | known* | 02:05 |
ukine | or security. broadcom(m?). heh. | 02:06 |
c0rnelius | very true | 02:06 |
ukine | i'm laying back down. f*** the system. | 02:06 |
Vall | ukine: uh? | 02:09 |
c0rnelius | Alright so my sources.list for chimaera is right. good good. Didn't even notice it was released. | 02:10 |
Vall | c0rnelius: re RPi4 sdcard slots, are they problematic? In which way(s)? | 02:11 |
c0rnelius | Vall: They just aren't high speed like other boards. | 02:11 |
c0rnelius | The ones on the Pi4 are better than the Pi3, but other boards usually provide you with a better quality. | 02:12 |
c0rnelius | There is a way to tweak the dts to increase the freq at which the card reads, but I stopped doing it on the pi4 as it created instability. | 02:13 |
Vall | c0rnelius: thanks for the clarifications. But are they at least stable (without freq increasing)? | 02:15 |
c0rnelius | Yes of course. Don't get me wrong it runs just fine. | 02:16 |
c0rnelius | I was using I think the same card you ordered on mine until like a week ago. Ran perfect. | 02:16 |
c0rnelius | I only pulled it because I needed the card and had an extra ssd laying around. | 02:16 |
Vall | KK | 02:23 |
Vall | thanks again for the clarifications, c0rnelius | 02:23 |
Vall | folks, gotta go. see y'all tomorrow, have a good one! | 02:23 |
* Vall waves | 02:23 | |
c0rnelius | see ya | 02:30 |
c0rnelius | gnarface: The builder uses Hirsute as a Host, but you can make Devuan imgs here -> https://github.com/pyavitz/debian-image-builder | 02:32 |
c0rnelius | Can does cross or native compiling as well and docker is also option. | 02:33 |
c0rnelius | If you don't mind maintaining ur own kernels, its an option. | 02:34 |
gnarface | noted, thanks | 02:36 |
c0rnelius | I haven't done mad testing with Devuan yet, but last time I checked it worked. | 02:36 |
c0rnelius | I have a sneaking suspicion that 5.15 will be a LTS release, so I've been slowly moving everything to 5.14.y. As I'm the only person really testing its a slow process. | 02:39 |
steev | i hope not, i'd prefer 5.16 be the lts | 04:03 |
c0rnelius | I haven't really read to much into it, but what I have read is it will be the last major release of the year. Could be BS? Most things are... I have no inside information of course. | 04:08 |
c0rnelius | But even when 5.10 was released they made a stink about it, saying essentially if it wasn't adopted by enough people it would be a short term LTS. So who knows? | 04:09 |
steev | yeah, there's just a lot of stuff that is half baked making it into 5.15 and the rest of it isn't going in til 5.16 | 04:43 |
c0rnelius | Thats really not a huge deal has most things get back ported into LTS. | 05:36 |
c0rnelius | has/as* | 05:36 |
c0rnelius | important things anyway. | 05:37 |
c0rnelius | There are commits in 5.14.12 inside 5.10.72. I guess it comes down to priority? | 05:38 |
steev | bug fixes are backported, "new things" are typically not unless the distro themselves do it, ala ubuntu/fedora. | 06:45 |
steev | it typically comes down to the "Fixes" tag - if whatever commit that is tagged is in a kernel, it is typically backported since it's a fix for a broken feature | 06:47 |
steev | as an example - https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-arm-msm/patch/20211011095534.1580406-1-vladimir.zapolskiy@linaro.org/ | 06:47 |
steev | Fixes: 3e482859f1ef ("dts: qcom: sdm845: Add dt entries to support crypto engine.") | 06:47 |
steev | so that would get backported to any kernel that has 3e482859f1ef in it, assuming it's supported still | 06:47 |
steev | but you can also request fixes to be backported, if they aren't already - https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linux-stable-mirror/2021-September/304025.html as an example, because this one wasn't because it never got requested | 06:49 |
steev | i think for "auto" backporting, you have to cc stable tree and mention which trees? | 06:49 |
steev | i'm by no means a kernel expert, just an occasional commit and tested-by's | 06:51 |
hyrcanus | +1 | 07:11 |
c0rnelius | Well you know more than I :) Sounds accurate to me from what I've seen. | 13:57 |
Vall | steev: thanks for the detailed info on kernel fixes backporting, very detailed! | 17:54 |
Vall | I was once a kind of "kernel expert", always configured/compiled my own, had my own patches etc (even if never contributed explicitly to mainline) | 17:55 |
Vall | After 2.6.x, I got kinda disgusted with how things went and nowadays I mostly use whatever comes with the distro | 17:56 |
Vall | So, here's to 5.16 becoming the next LTS with all the good fixes and none of the bad ;-) | 17:57 |
hyrcanus | remember anything in particular that you disliked? | 18:03 |
hyrcanus | @ Vall | 18:03 |
Vall | back | 19:13 |
Vall | hyrcanus: Basically, what I disliked most was the fact that one could no longer just take a x.y.z kernel and compile it and expect it to work as long as y was an even number | 19:14 |
Vall | and the various f*ck-ups that started happening after the decision to do that | 19:15 |
Vall | (the big EXT4 f*ck-up comes to mind) | 19:16 |
Vall | Also, I don't like the attitude of the kernel 'bosses' (GregKH et al) in regards to ZFS, where they basically change things gratuitously that end up breaking ZFS and then say they couldn't care less | 19:18 |
steev | i can actually understand the last one | 19:21 |
steev | while it would be nice to not break the out of kernel modules, they need to do what is best for the kernel, and drivers should strive to enter the mainline kernel | 19:22 |
Vall | Due to all that and adding the f*ck-up in userland (systemd being the main culprit) for a time I seriously considered moving to FreeBSD | 19:22 |
steev | that isn't specific to just zfs, that happens often with out of tree wifi drivers, which i'm more familiar with | 19:22 |
Vall | If it wasn't for Devuan, I would be in FreeBSD already | 19:22 |
Vall | steev: well, that's the issue. ZFS is CDDL-licensed, and albeit it being opensource (or else it wouldn't be in FreeBSD) it's not GPL. So it's not going into the mainline kernel | 19:24 |
Vall | And I fully disagree that what GregKH and gang is doing to the kernel for the last 10 years is actually what is "best" for it | 19:25 |
Vall | (see my observations re: even-numbered releases, and the EXT4 f*ck-up I mentioned above). | 19:26 |
Vall | The situation with ZFS ended up being totally ridiculous, eg https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=154714516832389 | 19:28 |
Vall | Sun didn't even exist anymore (for over 8 years at the time of the above message), and still GregKH was using what he thought they meant for ZFS as an excuse to not support it | 19:30 |
steev | the even numbered release thing isn't a thing anymore | 19:44 |
Vall | steev: I know, for a long time already. And that's part of the problem | 20:09 |
Vall | At least IMHO, things were much better when it was | 20:09 |
steev | i'm not sure what you're saying though, because *every* release now is expected to work | 20:09 |
Vall | steev: except that they don't | 20:10 |
Vall | eg the aforementioned EXT4FS fu*k-up | 20:10 |
steev | sure, bugs will occur | 20:10 |
steev | but it's not like they specifically say "i'm gonna break this release just to fuck up Vall's day" | 20:11 |
Vall | LOL | 20:11 |
Vall | agreed | 20:11 |
Vall | I don't think it's personal. | 20:11 |
Vall | Or even that they do it to f*ck things up on purpose | 20:11 |
steev | i know it isn't. in fact, one of the people i used to have a bit of a grudge against, is now someone i goto almost constantly | 20:11 |
steev | when i was at genesi, he was constantly blocking patches from us to get the efikamx support into mainline | 20:12 |
steev | at the time, it was very frustrating, but looking back, he was absolutely right | 20:12 |
Vall | But the fact is that the releases suck. Things that simply can't be put into production slip through all the time | 20:12 |
Vall | Interesting insight | 20:12 |
Vall | looking up efikamx | 20:13 |
Vall | steev: you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efika#Efika_MX | 20:13 |
steev | si | 20:13 |
Vall | hablas español, ¿amigo steev? | 20:14 |
steev | sorry, no, the company i'm at now, everyone says si instead of yes | 20:15 |
steev | i only speak english, and very rudimentary russian | 20:15 |
Vall | Heh | 20:15 |
Vall | si is neither english nor russian ;-) | 20:16 |
Vall | Anyway, nm | 20:16 |
steev | i know various words of spanish, but not enough to hold a conversation :) | 20:16 |
Vall | But interesting machine, the Efika MX | 20:16 |
c0rnelius | perfecto I use to hear a lot. For some reason it really annoyed me :) | 20:16 |
c0rnelius | Just say perfect! I know you can. | 20:17 |
Vall | 12W maximum for a complete laptop (in 2009!) is kinda miraculous | 20:17 |
Vall | Heh | 20:17 |
Vall | I used to *hate* spanish. Then I was forced (for many reasons) to learn it, and nowadays I see a lot of good things in it | 20:18 |
Vall | Spanish's (or, to be more precise, Castellano's) major issue, for me, is the irregular verbs | 20:19 |
Vall | But then all latin languages suffer from that, and in some (*cough* French *cough*) it's actually much worse | 20:19 |
c0rnelius | I don't dislike Spanish and grew up in Miami, FL. But... Native Spanish people are funny in that they refuse to speak English and expect me to speak Spanish. | 20:19 |
steev | yeah, we were ahead of our time :D | 20:19 |
steev | and then squandered it all away | 20:19 |
Vall | steev: sorry to hear it :-/ | 20:20 |
steev | it happens :) | 20:20 |
Vall | c0rnelius: hehehe yeah respect their cultural identity, but don't expect them to respect yours ;-) | 20:21 |
c0rnelius | Exactly | 20:21 |
c0rnelius | If I moved to Germany I would learn German :) to some degree. | 20:21 |
Vall | steev: it happens a lot... but sometimes a good failure is better that an evil success | 20:21 |
c0rnelius | I mean I wouldn't move there, but as an example. Yeah. | 20:22 |
Vall | Just see what MS and Apple became, compared to what they were when they began | 20:22 |
Vall | c0rnelius: sure | 20:22 |
Vall | (re German) | 20:22 |
Vall | In fact I would like to learn German even if I'm not going to move there either | 20:23 |
Vall | there's a lot of material written originally in German that I'd like to read, and translations always f*ck things up (the best translations only f*ck it up a little, but still do f*ck them up) | 20:24 |
Vall | Same with Japanese | 20:24 |
c0rnelius | Not a big lover of the German people. They are fine and all..? But I still hold a grudge. It's like Poland. No plans on ever going there. | 20:24 |
Vall | c0rnelius: you mean, b/c of WW2? | 20:24 |
c0rnelius | Mostly jokes :) | 20:24 |
c0rnelius | Something like that. Not interested in visiting a place I'm not wanted. | 20:25 |
c0rnelius | Funny thing about Germans is a lot of them went to Argentina. Actually have a town and what not there that mostly speaks German. | 20:26 |
c0rnelius | I guess them and Hispanics have a lot in common as they refuse to integrate. | 20:27 |
c0rnelius | I'm mostly joking. But it is true :) | 20:28 |
Vall | A few years back, I spent a couple of weeks in Bavaria (southern Germany) and liked it a lot, people were very friendly and helpful | 20:28 |
Vall | And I have a couple of friends from around Berlin | 20:29 |
c0rnelius | I know a few around there. | 20:29 |
Vall | But haven't gone to Northern Germany yet, actually | 20:29 |
Vall | My friends from Berlin make jokes about their southerners, so there's a kind of rivalry there | 20:32 |
Vall | But this happens a lot in most countries, IME | 20:32 |
Vall | (people from a region making fun of people from another) | 20:33 |
Vall | c0rnelius: and what about Poland? | 20:33 |
c0rnelius | People are stupid, inherently. | 20:33 |
Vall | yeah | 20:33 |
Vall | it's like Douglas Adams said, "the 2 things most common in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity" ;-) | 20:34 |
c0rnelius | Most of the camps were in Poland. When it was invaded by Germany they didn't put up a fight. Poland had one of the largest Jewish populations and now has one of the smallest. | 20:35 |
Vall | I understand, Holocaust. | 20:35 |
c0rnelius | They also sell tickets to visit those camps and are Holocaust deniers. So its kinda of a oxymoron thing going on. | 20:37 |
Vall | I visited a concentration camp turned museum when I was near Nuremberg, and then the main Holocaust Museum in Nuremberg proper. | 20:37 |
c0rnelius | Did you have to pay? | 20:37 |
Vall | Been many years, but IIRC, no. | 20:37 |
Vall | I think entrance was free | 20:38 |
Vall | They had the ever-present gift shop in both, tho | 20:38 |
c0rnelius | I had a tenant here who visited Poland recently and said he really liked it there and visited the camps. Wasn't free. | 20:39 |
Vall | I think the only thing more stupid and cruel than the Holocaust proper is trying to deny it nowadays | 20:39 |
c0rnelius | Well I agree of course. Politics are so stupid. | 20:40 |
Vall | Not to defend Poland too much, but they were invaded by the Nazis in the east and the Reds in the west at the same time. Very difficult to put a fight against that | 20:40 |
Vall | "Politics are so stupid" and then Aristoteles wrote, "Man in the political animal". | 20:41 |
Vall | What this means is that "Man is the stupid animal" ;-) | 20:41 |
c0rnelius | There is a town outside of Dallas, TX in the states where they are trying to find ways to have opposing views in schools. So for example, if you talk about the Holocaust you also need to give children examples of people who say it didn't happen? | 20:41 |
Vall | LOL | 20:41 |
Vall | this is INCREDIBLY stupid. | 20:42 |
c0rnelius | Its funny really. | 20:42 |
c0rnelius | I laughed when I heard it. | 20:42 |
Vall | Then if you teach children that 2+2=4, you also have to give them examples of people who say 2+2=3? Or 5? | 20:42 |
Vall | LOL | 20:42 |
c0rnelius | Pretty much sums that up | 20:43 |
c0rnelius | so stupid | 20:43 |
Vall | Agreed | 20:43 |
Vall | "Children, tomorrow we will have an exposition from a Flat-earther in the Geography class. You know, 'both-sideism' rules...) | 20:43 |
c0rnelius | Life is funny. I honestly just try to laugh at it. | 20:44 |
c0rnelius | But then I feel bad for my kids so I just... you know? Tell them the truth :) | 20:44 |
Vall | "God is a comedian, playing for an audience that is afraid to laugh" | 20:45 |
Vall | ;-) | 20:45 |
c0rnelius | Don't listen to that garbage and stay off of Fakebook. | 20:45 |
Vall | At least we aren't ;-) | 20:45 |
Vall | (afraid to laugh, I mean) | 20:45 |
c0rnelius | I think we need to laugh at everything. :) | 20:46 |
Vall | yeah ;-) | 20:46 |
Vall | I'm with you on that, friend c0rnelius ;-) | 20:46 |
c0rnelius | :D | 20:47 |
Vall | But then, TX is the vanguard of the retarded ;-) | 20:48 |
c0rnelius | This is very true. | 20:49 |
Vall | I think the US should really give it back to Mexico ;-) | 20:49 |
c0rnelius | If I was president I would sell it back to Mexico. Border problem solved. | 20:49 |
Vall | The only problem is, I don't think Mexico would take it back with the Texans... then you'd have to find someplace else for them to go ;-) | 20:50 |
Vall | Perhaps Mexico could evict them, after regaining control of the land? ;-) | 20:50 |
c0rnelius | They would take it back. Lets of Oil still and what have you. | 20:50 |
c0rnelius | And lots of stupid. Its perfect. | 20:50 |
Vall | LOL | 20:50 |
c0rnelius | lets/lots* | 20:51 |
Vall | Well, we should ask the mexicans ;-) | 20:51 |
c0rnelius | And they get to keep that stupid wall :) | 20:51 |
Vall | they would make it a theme park, I think ;-) | 20:51 |
c0rnelius | Probs the best thing for it really. | 20:52 |
Vall | like, glue those plastic hand/foot holds and charge people to try and escalate it ;-) | 20:52 |
c0rnelius | ha | 20:52 |
Vall | heh | 20:52 |
c0rnelius | I side more with Lewis Black on this. They should have built the wall around Canada to help keep all that cold air out :) | 20:54 |
Vall | LOL yeah | 20:59 |
Vall | To say nothing of keeping in all the Americans that try to escape North ;-) | 21:00 |
c0rnelius | truth | 21:06 |
Vall | But then that was what the Reds tried with the Berlin wall, and it didn't work very well nor for very long ;-) | 21:07 |
c0rnelius | From what I can tell though there is nothing but `stupid` going on everywhere. There is no escaping this. | 21:07 |
Vall | Well, yeah. But then there's stupid, and there's stupider ;-) | 21:08 |
c0rnelius | If someone said "We need a space Janitor as we are headed to Mars or some shit like this?" I would have been the first one to sign up. Fix ur toilets and Computers and whatever else? I'm on it! Where do I sign? | 21:10 |
c0rnelius | This sounds to good to be true. | 21:11 |
Vall | The alternative is to make enough money, buy an RV and go live in the Desert and work remotely when you can | 21:12 |
c0rnelius | My thing is... I don't really any fucks about money. I understand its needed. But... Its just BS. | 21:12 |
c0rnelius | I've had highs and lows. I find the more you have to more you pay and the less you have the more you pay. Unless you are dirty rich and then you pay nothing for some reason? | 21:14 |
c0rnelius | Capitalism. It doesn't work. | 21:15 |
Vall | Heh | 21:16 |
Vall | The problem is that Comunism works even less ;-) | 21:16 |
Vall | (just ask the Russians, the Polish, the Cubans, etc) ;-) | 21:16 |
c0rnelius | The problem is people. | 21:16 |
Vall | exactly! | 21:16 |
c0rnelius | plan and simple. | 21:16 |
Vall | I'm with you on that | 21:16 |
Vall | Actually, it's Murphy's Law | 21:17 |
c0rnelius | There are ways to navigate this shit show we pretend to call a life. Problem is no one will step up that is in position to do so. | 21:18 |
c0rnelius | Its a trap! | 21:18 |
Vall | You know the joke, "1) You can't win; 2) You can't break-even; 3) you can't even quit the game" ? | 21:19 |
Vall | The punch line is that all belief systems that tried to make human life less miserable fail because they contradict one of the above rules | 21:20 |
Vall | Capitalism fails because it says you can win. Comunism fails because it says you can break-even. And religion fails because it says you can quit the game ;-) | 21:20 |
Vall | brb | 21:20 |
c0rnelius | Shit. They just shot William Shatner into space. Sorta? Kinda space? Not really. And that in the end was a fucking sells pitch for Amazon. Captain fucking Kirk! | 21:20 |
c0rnelius | Its insulting and then they call them Astronauts? and I think... I'm pretty sure real Astronauts trained for this? How insulting. | 21:22 |
Vall | back | 21:24 |
Vall | In fact I found Kirg going to space kinda cool ;-) | 21:24 |
Vall | *Kirk | 21:24 |
Vall | The other day SpaceX shot into space (and then brough back) a capsule-load of amateur astronauts | 21:25 |
c0rnelius | All those old school peps who did test flights and risked their own lives. That guy as much as I like him on that show does not deserve by any degree to be called an Astronaut. | 21:25 |
Vall | I think there are pro astronauts and amateur ones ;-) | 21:25 |
c0rnelius | I think there are people who are rich and those who actually care. | 21:26 |
Vall | Kirk is definitely no pro astronaut, no matter how much he played on on the TV | 21:26 |
c0rnelius | We can agree to disagree on this. | 21:26 |
Vall | ;-) | 21:26 |
Vall | sure | 21:26 |
Vall | You think Kirk went because he is rich, or because he cares? ;-) | 21:27 |
c0rnelius | Never met the man. I think personally someone presented him with something he couldn't refuse. I mean would you? | 21:28 |
c0rnelius | But in the end it was just sales pitch. Sadly. | 21:29 |
Vall | No way in heck I would refuse it ;-) But I do care about Space. | 21:29 |
Vall | I actually think the best investment Humanity could do right now for its own survival would be to establish a sustainable, long-term colony in the Moon, with at least 600 colonists between men and women. | 21:32 |
c0rnelius | That guy whom use to run Amazon "I won't even dignify him by saying his name" is still just being a salesmen. Granted he doesn't have to be, he is dirty rich now. | 21:32 |
Vall | The way things are, we have all eggs in one basket. Literally | 21:32 |
Vall | Jeff Bozos ;-) | 21:33 |
c0rnelius | I'm with you and other Nasa Admins. We should have gone to the mooon. | 21:33 |
c0rnelius | The space station was and is a waste of time and monies. | 21:34 |
Vall | c0rnelius: fully agreed. ISS is better than nothing, but not by much, and costs a ton. | 21:38 |
Vall | Now that the Chinese are threatening to leave the US behind in Space, perhaps this will change. New Space race etc | 21:39 |
c0rnelius | They aren't going anywhere. | 21:39 |
Vall | And to speak of another bozo, Elon Musk, I think trying to establish a colony on Mars before doing so in the moon is to try and run before learning to walk | 21:40 |
Vall | You mean, the Chinese? | 21:40 |
c0rnelius | People place to much strength in China. | 21:40 |
c0rnelius | That isn't really there. | 21:41 |
c0rnelius | I'm not saying that aren't able. But I am saying that can | 21:42 |
c0rnelius | t do it alone | 21:42 |
Vall | I hope you are right. With all its issues, I much prefer the US to be the dominant power in Space and elsewhere, than China. | 21:43 |
c0rnelius | Space is like Antarctica. | 21:43 |
Vall | How so? | 21:43 |
c0rnelius | There are rules. | 21:43 |
c0rnelius | You can't just claim this and that and frankly the with out the US helping them, I don't see how they are going to move forward in a ral way. | 21:44 |
c0rnelius | real* | 21:45 |
c0rnelius | This isn't an anime is what I'm saying. There is a huge cost of life here. | 21:46 |
c0rnelius | Granted China does prove its self to not really care about its population, but that doesn't mean that communist system is gonna risk its dominance. | 21:48 |
Vall | hummmr | 21:48 |
Vall | You mean, no one can go and claim a part of Space b/c, like in Antarctica, you'd have to somehow have help from the US? | 21:49 |
c0rnelius | It is generally recognised as a global commons, both by the members to the Antarctic Treaty, to non-member states and to the general population globally. Antarctica is a more concrete, physical space than other global commons, such as outer space, and it has, and is, actively dealing with the issue of sovereignty. | 21:51 |
c0rnelius | Pulled from the webs | 21:51 |
Vall | hummrmrmr... how does integrate "China can't really dominate space" argument? | 21:52 |
c0rnelius | Well I think the above says it all. Not only can't on a real level do so, but they would also be going against the other norms that are present on Earth as we know it. It would go against norms and more than likely be the end of them. To be frank. | 21:54 |
c0rnelius | No one would stand for it | 21:55 |
c0rnelius | We don't live in a united world currently. If we did things would be a better place. But I can say with current politics that isn't going to fly. | 21:56 |
c0rnelius | I have nothing but great respect for all people of the planet. But to think China is some how going to assume control is a but naive in my opinion. America has been at it since the end of WWII and still can't find its own dick. | 21:59 |
c0rnelius | Another fact about China which for some dumb reason no one thinks about anymore, is that if wasn't for the fact America blew the shit out of Japan, China would now be apart of Russia. | 22:33 |
c0rnelius | At the end of WWII China was occupied and fucked by Japan and Russia was moving in to claim territory lost by the China. America dropped those bombs to prove a point "which they didn't need too" Back off! | 22:37 |
c0rnelius | This in the end created the cold war, but stopped China from being occupied by the Russians. | 22:38 |
c0rnelius | Its funny to me how history and simple facts are lost by people. | 22:39 |
c0rnelius | But then again I don't know anything. I just read, which I hear is bad thing these days. | 22:40 |
steev | c0rnelius: so, i decided to give your image builder a try, when making the distro kali and suite kali-rolling on a kali host, the kali banner doesn't work in lib/source because we don't seem to have the "small" font apparently. | 22:43 |
steev | i mean, i assume it would fail on any of them on a kali host because of not having the small font really | 22:44 |
c0rnelius | steev: The builder is specific to Ubuntu. But i thought I put a caution in there for if not found don't do it? | 22:44 |
steev | you check that toilet exists, not the font :) | 22:44 |
c0rnelius | But ur talking about actual fonts. | 22:44 |
steev | the toilet fonts | 22:45 |
c0rnelius | true | 22:45 |
c0rnelius | Why would Kali ot include this? | 22:45 |
c0rnelius | not* | 22:45 |
c0rnelius | Could just remove that from the lib? | 22:45 |
steev | i think ubuntu patches that font in, because we don't do anything different from debian | 22:45 |
steev | or it's dropped from newer toilet than ubuntu has? | 22:46 |
c0rnelius | Pretty sure that in Debian. | 22:46 |
c0rnelius | The original builder was based on Debian | 22:46 |
c0rnelius | I moved it to Ubuntu because of the GCC support available | 22:47 |
c0rnelius | Which builder are you using? | 22:47 |
steev | https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/all/toilet-fonts/filelist | 22:48 |
steev | i'm building it on my c630 actually, which is a kali host | 22:49 |
steev | i'm trying to build an image for the nanopc t4 | 22:49 |
c0rnelius | I see | 22:49 |
c0rnelius | Not sure I added bookworm to supported options. | 22:49 |
steev | i stripped out the -f small | 22:49 |
steev | that's just the link] | 22:50 |
steev | even going to oldstable which is buster, doesn't list small | 22:50 |
steev | and bullseye has the same as buster | 22:50 |
steev | er | 22:50 |
steev | bookworm | 22:50 |
c0rnelius | Ur building on Kali though right? | 22:50 |
steev | yes | 22:51 |
c0rnelius | I just checked I haven't, added bookworm. | 22:51 |
steev | you're focusing on the wrong thing | 22:51 |
steev | it's not about bookworm | 22:51 |
Tenkawa | bookworm is unstable | 22:51 |
c0rnelius | Well the current state of the builder is meant to be used with Ubuntu. | 22:51 |
c0rnelius | There is this > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pyavitz/debian-image-builder/feature/lib/.package.list | 22:52 |
Tenkawa | the builder targets "established" targets... not moving ones | 22:52 |
steev | that's fine, i'm just saying that even debian stable has the same version as is in bookworm | 22:52 |
steev | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/toilet | 22:52 |
Tenkawa | thats why sid isnt in there either | 22:52 |
c0rnelius | which points out basic depends for bullseye, but the builder would still be limited. | 22:52 |
c0rnelius | I've never seen an toilet error before :) What would you suggest? | 22:53 |
Tenkawa | steev: don't use "stable" "unstable" target names in debian. period | 22:54 |
steev | Tenkawa: you're still focusing on the incorrect thing | 22:54 |
c0rnelius | steev: Yeah its the font. | 22:54 |
steev | i'm saying that the same version of toilet is in bullseye, sid, and bookworm | 22:54 |
Tenkawa | if you went to #debian and told them you were using that they'd stop talking to you | 22:54 |
steev | that version doesn't have the damn font file in it | 22:54 |
steev | idgaf? | 22:55 |
c0rnelius | Well thats not good | 22:55 |
steev | why are you arguing about inconsequentional bullshit | 22:55 |
Tenkawa | because I don | 22:55 |
steev | i'm reporting a bug and you're complaining about the fact that i'm saying the wrong name of the suite when i'm pointing to a url | 22:55 |
Tenkawa | er I don't think you looked at the right pkg dependency versions | 22:55 |
steev | the package is the same no matter which fucking suite it is | 22:56 |
steev | get off your fucking high horse, jesus fucking christ | 22:56 |
Tenkawa | but the versions and what they contain very much are | 22:56 |
steev | look at the fucking tracker url | 22:56 |
c0rnelius | steev: Is what ur saying is -f small isn't there anymore? | 22:56 |
steev | c0rnelius: i have no idea if it ever was. toilet isn't something that we in kali would customize, we just include it straight from debian | 22:57 |
c0rnelius | Strange because I know for sure its in Debian. | 22:58 |
steev | ~$ toilet -f small -F metal kali | 22:58 |
steev | error: could not load font small | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | toilet -f small test | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | _ _ | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | | |_ ___ __| |_ | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | | _/ -_|_-< _| | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | \__\___/__/\__| | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | works fine for me | 22:58 |
Tenkawa | same image base | 22:58 |
steev | ah, figured it out | 22:59 |
c0rnelius | As a matter of fact I have a "not" mentioned kali-rolling release inside the builder. | 22:59 |
steev | small comes from figlet | 22:59 |
steev | not from toilet | 22:59 |
Tenkawa | exactly!!!!! | 22:59 |
steev | i thought i had the dependencies but my eyes skipped over it | 23:00 |
c0rnelius | Well... I did make the builder very specific. Probs my bad but I was trying to create options and Ubuntu seemed to be the best choice at the time. | 23:02 |
steev | nah, it's not that specific :) | 23:03 |
steev | it runs fine, at least, until it hit that error | 23:03 |
steev | i'd probably still check for the existence of /usr/share/figlet/small.flf and yell at the user to install the dependencies correctly | 23:04 |
steev | or skip passing it | 23:04 |
c0rnelius | steev: I'll do so. | 23:07 |
steev | kinda annoying that they split the toilet fonts out but not the figlet ones | 23:07 |
c0rnelius | But yeah, figlet is a depends in the builder. | 23:07 |
steev | yeah :) i read the dependencies and ran the ones i thought i was missing, just missed figlet in there | 23:08 |
Vall | c0rnelius: agree fully re: a united world would be much better. | 23:08 |
c0rnelius | Vall: I think we can all agree on that, sir. | 23:08 |
Vall | I have great respect for the chinese people. The problem with China is its authoritarian, bullying government | 23:08 |
Vall | heh same here regarding reading. But I have heard this same "the US dropped the 2 bombs in Japan to make a point to the soviets" argument from my father, who actually lived through those times. | 23:10 |
c0rnelius | Vall: Well to some degree its true. Japan was already screwed at that point. What did the US have left to stop the Russians but "check this out"? | 23:28 |
c0rnelius | If yopu ask me, Japan got the short end of the stick, but they did deserve it on some level. At the same time there is history and when you look back, they made the choice to do what they did based on the facts on the ground at that time. | 23:29 |
c0rnelius | I feel bad about it all, really. | 23:29 |
c0rnelius | Of course I wasn't involved but... Still. Was a garbage place to be in. | 23:31 |
c0rnelius | There is a reason why this isn't taught in schools inside Japan. Shame. | 23:33 |
Vall | I think the US would have been perhaps justified in dropping a single bomb on them. Preferably in some uninhabited or lightly-inhabited island near the Japanese main land. | 23:35 |
c0rnelius | I would have to agree. | 23:35 |
c0rnelius | It was just a means to an end at that point. | 23:35 |
Vall | To drop 2 bombs in highly populated cities full of civilians, that was definitely *not* ok. | 23:36 |
c0rnelius | Not only was that done but they made them test subjects to fall out. | 23:36 |
Vall | I think that "the end justify the means" can and is used to 'validate' all kinds of monstruosities | 23:36 |
Vall | c0rnelius: agreed. | 23:36 |
c0rnelius | the whole thing is horrific. | 23:37 |
Vall | The fact that it was two bombs of entirely different technologies (one was based on uranium, the other on plutonium) reinforces that. | 23:37 |
Vall | I think Japan did a monstruous thing in Pearl Harbor. To say nothing of what they did in the rest of Asia ("comfort women", etc) | 23:38 |
c0rnelius | Anyway. China would be apart of Russia if that wasn't done... or? And even perhaps history as we know it today would be completely diff. | 23:38 |
Vall | But to drop 2 atomic bombs on civilians? That could have come straight from the nazis for all it's like. | 23:39 |
c0rnelius | I think the same thing. | 23:39 |
Vall | I never heard this thing about Russia invading China. But anyway, I'm not sure the CCP wouldn't have throw them out right afterwards, just like it did with the english and etc in 1949 | 23:40 |
c0rnelius | Japans fight in WWII as I understand it was resources. The Europeans and US and reserved most of the islands around them and was extracting those resources for them selves. Leaving Japan in a shit poor place and dependent on people, which they didn't want to be. Japan as Island has vert little resources such as fossil fuels. | 23:42 |
c0rnelius | Its really what lite the match for them. | 23:42 |
Vall | yeah | 23:42 |
Vall | but the end does not justify the means | 23:42 |
Vall | I think it's the exact opposite. | 23:43 |
c0rnelius | I'm not saying its just. | 23:43 |
Vall | Even if you don't succeed, if you at least use honorable means, even a failed ending is justified | 23:43 |
c0rnelius | You and I can't change it. | 23:44 |
c0rnelius | Its like thinking Jews made it out of WWII because the world cared? The world didn't. Those who survived lived. Its just that simple. | 23:44 |
c0rnelius | There are less than 200 people on the whole planet with my surname because of that shit show. Its just truth. | 23:45 |
c0rnelius | I just know I had nothing to do with it. It doesn't define me but I still read :) | 23:46 |
steev | c0rnelius: fwiw, image built successfully, and it runs fine on the system | 23:48 |
c0rnelius | steev: You test the turbo you suggested? | 23:48 |
steev | not on the nanopct4 | 23:49 |
steev | i did test it on the pinebook pro and it works fine there | 23:49 |
c0rnelius | Nice | 23:49 |
steev | i mean, i plan to test it in a sec, it should be running but i didn't look just yet | 23:50 |
c0rnelius | Just need to adjust a file a restart a service | 23:50 |
steev | oh i did that and rebooted because i'm lazy | 23:50 |
c0rnelius | ah | 23:50 |
steev | but i'm installing a desktop on it | 23:51 |
steev | and it's trucking along quite nicely, and the pwm fan on it kicks in every so often | 23:51 |
steev | so that's good | 23:51 |
c0rnelius | really? | 23:51 |
c0rnelius | I don't even have that fan :) | 23:51 |
c0rnelius | I was looking at it online but... China and shit. Take weeks to get hear with the current US probs. | 23:52 |
c0rnelius | here* | 23:52 |
steev | Ah I’ve had them for both of the nanopc t4, I got them when I was tired of plugging fans in to the gpio and unplugging them when I didn’t wanna listen to them | 23:53 |
steev | And yeah, shipping now is annoying and ridiculous. | 23:54 |
c0rnelius | When I originally bought the T4 those weren't available which is why I don't have one. | 23:54 |
steev | It took like 2 months for my pinecil to show up | 23:54 |
c0rnelius | Yeah thats just tarded | 23:54 |
steev | Yep | 23:54 |
steev | One thing I may look into | 23:55 |
steev | I’m tired of mainline not supporting the mipi display | 23:55 |
c0rnelius | Well happythe builder worked for you :) I do make some effort there and its good to hear that its helpful to someone besides myself and Tenkawa :) | 23:56 |
steev | I was curious to see it work, plus I wanted to try that patch yeah | 23:56 |
c0rnelius | Well that patch is half ur idea. :) | 23:57 |
steev | wow | 23:57 |
steev | it's already at 90% done installing gnome | 23:57 |
c0rnelius | Fucking turbo boost and whatnots | 23:58 |
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