Vanfanel | Good morning! | 10:09 |
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Vanfanel | On the Raspberry Pi4, sustained CPU usage turns HDMI display off. It used to happen on Raspberry Pi OS, too, but was eventually fixed: https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/1598 | 10:10 |
Vanfanel | I have opened a thread on the devuan forums: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=32574#p32574 | 10:11 |
ShorTie | who's kernel are you running ?? | 10:54 |
ShorTie | i normally do the raspi.list thing so i use the foundations | 10:54 |
ShorTie | have you worked on your over heating problem at all ?? | 11:00 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: I use the kernel that comes with Chimaera 4.0, which is: 5.10.74-v8 | 11:11 |
Vanfanel | I don't have any over heating problems | 11:12 |
ShorTie | sure you do, it's throttling | 11:35 |
ShorTie | fix that and the other issue will probily go away | 11:36 |
ShorTie | do you even have a heatsink on it ?? | 11:43 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: No, I don't have a heatsink on it, and yes, it's throttling is seems, you are right! :) | 13:26 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: But video shouldn't go away when throttling | 13:26 |
ShorTie | did you not read what popcornmix said ?? | 13:43 |
ShorTie | "I think the issue is when arm throttles (due to high temperature) it was incorrectly reducing core frequency below that required for the hdmi mode." | 13:45 |
ShorTie | you need at least a heatsink on it | 13:45 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: yes, that means that there IS throttling. But that throttling is incorrectly reducing core freq below the freq needed for HDMI | 13:46 |
ShorTie | maybe | 13:46 |
Vanfanel | When throttinlg happens, video poweroff should not happen | 13:46 |
Vanfanel | popcornmix said that | 13:47 |
ShorTie | but fix the temp issue and the othe will go away | 13:47 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: Those are different issues | 13:47 |
ShorTie | but they are related | 13:48 |
Vanfanel | Sure they are. But while throttling is a normal thing to happen on the Pi4, video going off should not | 13:49 |
ShorTie | i would not say it's a normal thing | 13:50 |
ShorTie | it's a no good thing imho | 13:50 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: are you the author of the arm64/pi4 Devuan image? | 13:51 |
ShorTie | nop, i make my own | 13:51 |
Vanfanel | ok, ok | 13:52 |
Vanfanel | I'll wait for the outcome in the forum issue | 13:52 |
ShorTie | like i said | 13:52 |
ShorTie | i use the raspi.list method so i get foundation updates | 13:52 |
ShorTie | even just setting a penny on it will help | 13:54 |
ShorTie | you need a heatsink, Period ! | 13:54 |
ShorTie | needed 1 since the pi3 really | 13:55 |
ShorTie | psst, if you keep it cool your compile times will go down too... | 14:14 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: I insist, there's a problem with video going off even if you are right and I need a heatsink. Just bought one, the LIRC one. | 14:15 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: what's the raspi.list method, btw? | 14:15 |
ShorTie | i just take a old chipset one and cut it up .. :/~ | 14:16 |
ShorTie | the way the foundation does there arm64 images | 14:16 |
ShorTie | give me a minute | 14:16 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: so you do your own arm64 images based on how the foundation makes them but without systemd? Do you publish these images online? | 14:17 |
Vanfanel | Are your images bullseye-based? | 14:17 |
Vanfanel | Official foundation images are still on Debian 10 | 14:18 |
ShorTie | https://github.com/ShorTie8/Devuan-imager/blob/master/Devuan-pi-imager.sh#L358 | 14:18 |
ShorTie | sortta like that | 14:19 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: but that's still on buster | 14:20 |
Vanfanel | Current Devuan is on Bullseye already | 14:20 |
ShorTie | that doesn't matter | 14:21 |
ShorTie | it's idea of the way to get the needed files that matters | 14:22 |
Vanfanel | Well it does, I need newer GCC | 14:22 |
Vanfanel | Ahh! You mean I should install the foundaton keys and .list, right? | 14:23 |
ShorTie | i would, but that is me | 14:23 |
ShorTie | when i do a Linux From Scratch run it can take days of compiling | 14:26 |
ShorTie | or playing Gentoo | 14:27 |
ShorTie | and like never go above the mid 60's in temp | 14:27 |
ShorTie | with a heatsink | 14:27 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: I have already ordered a heatsink, will be here tomorrow :D | 14:28 |
ShorTie | Cool | 14:28 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: Cool-er, I hope :D | 14:28 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: I take the DEVUAN repos also get Pi kernel updates, right? | 14:28 |
Vanfanel | I mean without the foundation lists | 14:29 |
ShorTie | got me | 14:29 |
ShorTie | don't know if your using parazyd image or c0rnelius image | 14:29 |
ShorTie | not hip on the parazyd one's | 14:30 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: I git it from here -> https://arm-files.devuan.org/ | 14:40 |
Vanfanel | What do you mean with "not hip"? | 14:41 |
ShorTie | don't like how he makes them | 14:43 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: So mine's from c0rnelius? | 14:44 |
Vanfanel | (That nick makes want to sing "Dr Zaius, Dr Zaius.. Ohhh Dr Zaius" for some reason | 14:45 |
ShorTie | think those are parazyd images | 14:46 |
Vanfanel | And what do you dislike about them? | 14:46 |
ShorTie | the complicated method to which he does simple things | 14:47 |
Vanfanel | well, but he uses the devuan package lists, so.. there must be some kernel updates somehow from devuan.org, right? | 14:48 |
ShorTie | never could get his image builder to work | 14:48 |
ShorTie | i wouldn't count on it, but got me | 14:48 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: The kernel comes from the package: raspberrypi-linux-image | 14:52 |
Vanfanel | So when that package updates, the kernel will update | 14:52 |
Vanfanel | I guess every ARM-based devuan image uses raspberrypi-linux-image | 14:52 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: that comes from the foundation | 14:52 |
Tenkawa | its only packaged by devuan | 14:53 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: Ah, so in fact, when the foundation kernel updates, raspberrypi-linux-image on Devuan will update, right? | 14:54 |
Tenkawa | its possible they could retweak it but they can't do much to it without breaking it for multi-rpi support | 14:54 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: not until its pulled again no | 14:54 |
Vanfanel | Vanfanel: pulled by the Devuan people, right? | 14:55 |
Tenkawa | and the foundation have been a bit behind lately | 14:55 |
Tenkawa | correct | 14:55 |
Tenkawa | they still havent gotten a deb built with pi zero 2 w kernel completely built in yet | 14:55 |
Tenkawa | (as of yesterday anyway) | 14:56 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: thats one reason we build images manually (I work with c0rnelius) | 14:56 |
Tenkawa | Linux zbox2 5.15.0-zbox2 #1 SMP Wed Nov 3 10:55:11 EDT 2021 aarch64 GNU/Linux | 14:57 |
Tenkawa | na@zbox2:~$ grep PR /etc/os-release | 14:57 |
Tenkawa | PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 4 (chimaera)" | 14:57 |
Tenkawa | this is my pi zero 2 w | 14:57 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: I really thank you for your work on Devuan, It's my distro of choice nowadays on ARM (and thanks to it I learned about eudev, which doesn't depend on systemd...) | 15:01 |
Tenkawa | c0rnelius is really the one to thank... I break things.. (thats my job) | 15:02 |
Tenkawa | lol | 15:02 |
Tenkawa | but thanks though. | 15:02 |
ShorTie | eudev is dieing | 15:04 |
Tenkawa | indeed | 15:05 |
Tenkawa | Important | 15:05 |
Tenkawa | eudev is being retired from Gentooand will be removed from the Gentoo repository on 2022-01-01. | 15:05 |
Tenkawa | eudev will be replaced by udev. The transition should be uneventful, however the corresponding News Item must be read and followed to avoid any issues. | 15:05 |
Tenkawa | considering I think Gentoo is who really kept it going strong thats an omen to follow | 15:06 |
ShorTie | he's trying to run a pi4 with no heatsink | 15:09 |
ShorTie | it gets so hot it kills the video | 15:09 |
Tenkawa | ouch | 15:11 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie: Stop laughing about me, you! :D | 15:13 |
Vanfanel | No, seriously, I have ordered a heatsink already | 15:13 |
Vanfanel | ShorTie is right, the thing is hot | 15:13 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: That eudev omen... Devuan will also jump to udev, right? | 15:14 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: HOW can Devuan run udev without systemd? By building udev without systemd sypport? Or do you simply use an older udev? | 15:15 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: they \ | 15:16 |
Tenkawa | er they already have a few options | 15:16 |
Tenkawa | udev can run by itself | 15:17 |
Vanfanel | So udev will become the main option I guess | 15:17 |
Vanfanel | There's also MDEV | 15:23 |
Tenkawa | yeah mdev I think might make an entrance | 15:24 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: wow, MDEV looks VERY good! Busybox is in fact a wonder itself | 15:29 |
Tenkawa | yeah busybox can be amazing if used right | 15:30 |
c0rnelius | Vanfanel: What does ur `dmesg | grep "Linux version"` say? | 16:09 |
steev | oh that does make me sad about eudev, but it's to be expected since there were so few devs | 16:47 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: Linux version 5.10.74-v8 (root@rpi-img-builder) (aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc-10 (Ubuntu 10.3.0-1ubuntu1~20.04) 10.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.34) #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Oct 19 04:33:14 CEST 2021 | 17:21 |
c0rnelius | Vanfanel: To update the kernel run `fetch -u` | 17:22 |
c0rnelius | You'll see options | 17:22 |
c0rnelius | I'm actually building fresh ones now for 5.10.y as there were a lot of changes made recently. | 17:23 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: ah! That "fetch -u" allows us to update the kernel, the Pi-specific firmware in /boot, etc... right? | 17:30 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: how does that relate to kernel updates via apt-get, for example? | 17:31 |
Vanfanel | There's the raspberrypi-linux-image, which would be updated with apt-get, I guess | 17:32 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: this is not raspbian/rpi os so apt-get doesn't pull that kernel | 17:33 |
Tenkawa | thats the one we get with fetch and install | 17:33 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: I don't quite understand. Updating raspberrypi-linux-image would install the Pi fundation kernel then? | 17:33 |
Tenkawa | yes but its not done with apt.. you use fetch | 17:34 |
Tenkawa | apt was for rpios/raspbian kernel | 17:34 |
Tenkawa | you still use apt for the rest of the os though | 17:35 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: Then what's the raspberrypi-linux-image package? | 17:35 |
Vanfanel | Or... are you saying fetch will update the raspberrypi-linux-image package? | 17:35 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: we still kept it the same correct package bame | 17:35 |
Tenkawa | er name | 17:35 |
Tenkawa | yes | 17:35 |
Tenkawa | it fetches the proper upate | 17:35 |
Tenkawa | er update | 17:36 |
c0rnelius | The diff is we make them our selves and don't use the foundation kernel, but use the foundation sources. | 17:36 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: SO, does fetch update the raspberrypi-linux-image package? Am I right? | 17:36 |
Tenkawa | (its made to work for debian, devuan, and ubuntu) | 17:36 |
Tenkawa | yes | 17:36 |
Vanfanel | ok, ok, understood now :D | 17:36 |
Tenkawa | if you use the update option | 17:36 |
Vanfanel | Sorry if I look a bit obtuse... | 17:36 |
c0rnelius | Its fine. | 17:37 |
c0rnelius | Yeah it will update the kernel and headers. | 17:37 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: "fetch -1" will also update fw blobs, dtbs, etc.. in /boot, right? | 17:42 |
c0rnelius | yes | 17:42 |
Vanfanel | great! | 17:42 |
c0rnelius | its all baked into the build process. | 17:42 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: why a 250HZ kernel? Since it's a PREEMPT-enabled kernel, why not 1000HZ? | 17:43 |
c0rnelius | Beats me :) I use the foundation defaults. Only thing I add is module signing. | 17:45 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: I get it. Thanks! :) | 17:47 |
c0rnelius | I basic run down of ur options are here -> https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder#usage | 18:07 |
c0rnelius | Now whom made the img ur running I can't say for sure, so I don't know what they changed, but according to that dmesg and the fact the fetch script is there, I can say the used the builder or a fork of it. | 18:10 |
c0rnelius | For example I don't zip my imgs. On that site they appear to be renamed and zipped and in another location named properly and zipped. Either way, I don't zip :) Requested imgs I place here -> https://github.com/pyavitz/binary/releases/tag/images | 18:13 |
steev | if it's arm64, that's the default for the defconfig because, well, "most arm64 devices are servers" | 18:25 |
c0rnelius | Well there you go. | 18:26 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: Have you ever tried to load the vc4 module manually? It turns off the HDMI video, do you know why? | 18:30 |
Vanfanel | Making "modprobe vc4" causes the HDMI video to turn off | 18:31 |
Vanfanel | I boot in full KMS mode,with dtoverlay=vc4-kms-v3d | 18:31 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: because vc4 aka videocore is the core of the video output if you are using that overlay | 18:32 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: But I am LOADING it, not UNLOADING it | 18:34 |
Vanfanel | why should modprobe vc4 turn video off?? | 18:34 |
c0rnelius | A good resource for problems is to check here https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues | 18:34 |
Tenkawa | c0rnelius: I don't think its a problem | 18:34 |
Vanfanel | c0rnelius: I just opened an issue there about that | 18:34 |
Vanfanel | There's something I don't know here.. | 18:35 |
c0rnelius | Not saying it is, just saying thats a good place to look first. | 18:35 |
Tenkawa | Vanfanel: you have to remember that the boot overlays and modules interact with each other so it might have turned it off as a default | 18:35 |
Tenkawa | theres a overlay command to see whats loaded | 18:36 |
Tenkawa | let me see if I can find it | 18:36 |
Tenkawa | run dtoverlay -l when its running ok | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | make it break. then from ssh run that again | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | see if it changes | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | (from sudo or root) | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | if the list is different then there "is" a way to reactivate that overlay using that command on the fly again | 18:39 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: No changes.. seems to be a module dependency problem, according to the issue outcome | 18:58 |
Tenkawa | any errors in /var/log/kern.log or syslog? | 18:58 |
Vanfanel | Tenkawa: nope, nothing | 19:04 |
Tenkawa | bummer | 19:04 |
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