libera/#devuan-arm/ Thursday, 2021-11-04

VanfanelGood morning!10:09
VanfanelOn the Raspberry Pi4, sustained CPU usage turns HDMI display off. It used to happen on Raspberry Pi OS, too, but was eventually fixed: https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/159810:10
VanfanelI have opened a thread on the devuan forums: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=32574#p3257410:11
ShorTiewho's kernel are you running ??10:54
ShorTiei normally do the raspi.list thing so i use the foundations10:54
ShorTiehave you worked on your over heating problem at all ??11:00
VanfanelShorTie: I use the kernel that comes with Chimaera 4.0, which is: 5.10.74-v811:11
VanfanelI don't have any over heating problems11:12
ShorTiesure you do, it's throttling11:35
ShorTiefix that and the other issue will probily go away11:36
ShorTiedo you even have a heatsink on it ??11:43
VanfanelShorTie: No, I don't have a heatsink on it, and yes, it's throttling is seems, you are right! :)13:26
VanfanelShorTie: But video shouldn't go away when throttling13:26
ShorTiedid you not read what popcornmix said ??13:43
ShorTie"I think the issue is when arm throttles (due to high temperature) it was incorrectly reducing core frequency below that required for the hdmi mode."13:45
ShorTieyou need at least a heatsink on it13:45
VanfanelShorTie: yes, that means that there IS throttling. But that throttling is incorrectly reducing core freq below the freq needed for HDMI13:46
ShorTiemaybe13:46
VanfanelWhen throttinlg happens, video poweroff should not happen13:46
Vanfanelpopcornmix said that13:47
ShorTiebut fix the temp issue and the othe will go away13:47
VanfanelShorTie: Those are different issues13:47
ShorTiebut they are related13:48
VanfanelSure they are. But while throttling is a normal thing to happen on the Pi4, video going off should not13:49
ShorTiei would not say it's a normal thing13:50
ShorTieit's a no good thing imho13:50
VanfanelShorTie: are you the author of the arm64/pi4 Devuan image?13:51
ShorTienop, i make my own13:51
Vanfanelok, ok13:52
VanfanelI'll wait for the outcome in the forum issue13:52
ShorTielike i said13:52
ShorTiei use the raspi.list method so i get foundation updates13:52
ShorTieeven just setting a penny on it will help13:54
ShorTieyou need a heatsink, Period !13:54
ShorTieneeded 1 since the pi3 really13:55
ShorTiepsst, if you keep it cool your compile times will go down too...14:14
VanfanelShorTie: I insist, there's a problem with video going off even if you are right and I need a heatsink. Just bought one, the LIRC one.14:15
VanfanelShorTie: what's the raspi.list method, btw?14:15
ShorTiei just take a old chipset one and cut it up .. :/~14:16
ShorTiethe way the foundation does there arm64 images14:16
ShorTiegive me a minute14:16
VanfanelShorTie: so you do your own arm64 images based on how the foundation makes them but without systemd? Do you publish these images online?14:17
VanfanelAre your images bullseye-based?14:17
VanfanelOfficial foundation images are still on Debian 1014:18
ShorTiehttps://github.com/ShorTie8/Devuan-imager/blob/master/Devuan-pi-imager.sh#L35814:18
ShorTiesortta like that14:19
VanfanelShorTie: but that's still on buster14:20
VanfanelCurrent Devuan is on Bullseye already14:20
ShorTiethat doesn't matter14:21
ShorTieit's idea of the way to get the needed files that matters14:22
VanfanelWell it does, I need newer GCC14:22
VanfanelAhh! You mean I should install the foundaton keys and .list, right?14:23
ShorTiei would, but that is me14:23
ShorTiewhen i do a Linux From Scratch run it can take days of compiling14:26
ShorTieor playing Gentoo14:27
ShorTieand like never go above the mid 60's in temp14:27
ShorTiewith a heatsink14:27
VanfanelShorTie: I have already ordered a heatsink, will be here tomorrow :D14:28
ShorTieCool14:28
VanfanelShorTie: Cool-er, I hope :D14:28
VanfanelShorTie: I take the DEVUAN repos also get Pi kernel updates, right?14:28
VanfanelI mean without the foundation lists14:29
ShorTiegot me14:29
ShorTiedon't know if your using parazyd image or c0rnelius image14:29
ShorTienot hip on the parazyd one's14:30
VanfanelShorTie: I git it from here -> https://arm-files.devuan.org/14:40
VanfanelWhat do you mean with "not hip"?14:41
ShorTiedon't like how he makes them14:43
VanfanelShorTie: So mine's from c0rnelius?14:44
Vanfanel(That nick makes want to sing "Dr Zaius, Dr Zaius.. Ohhh Dr Zaius" for some reason14:45
ShorTiethink those are parazyd images14:46
VanfanelAnd what do you dislike about them?14:46
ShorTiethe complicated method to which he does simple things14:47
Vanfanelwell, but he uses the devuan package lists, so.. there must be some kernel updates somehow from devuan.org, right?14:48
ShorTienever could get his image builder to work14:48
ShorTiei wouldn't count on it, but got me14:48
VanfanelShorTie: The kernel comes from the package: raspberrypi-linux-image14:52
VanfanelSo when that package updates, the kernel will update14:52
VanfanelI guess every ARM-based devuan image uses raspberrypi-linux-image14:52
TenkawaVanfanel: that comes from the foundation14:52
Tenkawaits only packaged by devuan14:53
VanfanelTenkawa: Ah, so in fact, when the foundation kernel updates, raspberrypi-linux-image on Devuan will update, right?14:54
Tenkawaits possible they could retweak it but they can't do much to it without breaking it for multi-rpi support14:54
TenkawaVanfanel: not until its pulled again no14:54
VanfanelVanfanel: pulled by the Devuan people, right?14:55
Tenkawaand the foundation have been a bit behind lately14:55
Tenkawacorrect14:55
Tenkawathey still havent gotten a deb built with pi zero 2 w kernel completely built in yet14:55
Tenkawa(as of yesterday anyway)14:56
TenkawaVanfanel: thats one reason we build images manually (I work with c0rnelius)14:56
TenkawaLinux zbox2 5.15.0-zbox2 #1 SMP Wed Nov 3 10:55:11 EDT 2021 aarch64 GNU/Linux14:57
Tenkawana@zbox2:~$ grep PR /etc/os-release14:57
TenkawaPRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 4 (chimaera)"14:57
Tenkawathis is my pi zero 2 w14:57
VanfanelTenkawa: I really thank you for your work on Devuan, It's my distro of choice nowadays on ARM (and thanks to it I learned about eudev, which doesn't depend on systemd...)15:01
Tenkawac0rnelius is really the one to thank... I break things.. (thats my job)15:02
Tenkawalol15:02
Tenkawabut thanks though.15:02
ShorTieeudev is dieing15:04
Tenkawaindeed15:05
Tenkawa Important15:05
Tenkawaeudev is being retired from Gentooand will be removed from the Gentoo repository on 2022-01-01.15:05
Tenkawa eudev will be replaced by udev. The transition should be uneventful, however the corresponding News Item must be read and followed to avoid any issues.15:05
Tenkawaconsidering I think Gentoo is who really kept it going strong thats an omen to follow15:06
ShorTiehe's trying to run a pi4 with no heatsink15:09
ShorTieit gets so hot it kills the video15:09
Tenkawaouch15:11
VanfanelShorTie: Stop laughing about me, you! :D15:13
VanfanelNo, seriously, I have ordered a heatsink already15:13
VanfanelShorTie is right, the thing is hot15:13
VanfanelTenkawa: That eudev omen... Devuan will also jump to udev, right?15:14
VanfanelTenkawa: HOW can Devuan run udev without systemd? By building udev without systemd sypport? Or do you simply use an older udev?15:15
TenkawaVanfanel: they \15:16
Tenkawaer they already have a few options15:16
Tenkawaudev can run by itself15:17
VanfanelSo udev will become the main option I guess15:17
VanfanelThere's also MDEV15:23
Tenkawayeah mdev I think might make an entrance15:24
VanfanelTenkawa: wow, MDEV looks VERY good! Busybox is in fact a wonder itself15:29
Tenkawayeah busybox can be amazing if used right15:30
c0rneliusVanfanel: What does ur `dmesg | grep "Linux version"` say?16:09
steevoh that does make me sad about eudev, but it's to be expected since there were so few devs16:47
Vanfanelc0rnelius: Linux version 5.10.74-v8 (root@rpi-img-builder) (aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc-10 (Ubuntu 10.3.0-1ubuntu1~20.04) 10.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.34) #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Oct 19 04:33:14 CEST 202117:21
c0rneliusVanfanel: To update the kernel run `fetch -u`17:22
c0rneliusYou'll see options17:22
c0rneliusI'm actually building fresh ones now for 5.10.y as there were a lot of changes made recently.17:23
Vanfanelc0rnelius: ah! That "fetch -u" allows us to update the kernel, the Pi-specific firmware in /boot, etc... right?17:30
Vanfanelc0rnelius: how does that relate to kernel updates via apt-get, for example?17:31
VanfanelThere's the raspberrypi-linux-image, which would be updated with apt-get, I guess17:32
TenkawaVanfanel: this is not raspbian/rpi os so apt-get doesn't pull that kernel17:33
Tenkawathats the one we get with fetch and install17:33
VanfanelTenkawa: I don't quite understand. Updating raspberrypi-linux-image would install the Pi fundation kernel then?17:33
Tenkawayes but its not done with apt.. you use fetch17:34
Tenkawaapt was for rpios/raspbian kernel17:34
Tenkawayou still use apt for the rest of the os though17:35
VanfanelTenkawa: Then what's the raspberrypi-linux-image package?17:35
VanfanelOr... are you saying fetch will update the raspberrypi-linux-image package?17:35
TenkawaVanfanel: we still kept it the same correct package bame17:35
Tenkawaer name17:35
Tenkawayes17:35
Tenkawait fetches the proper upate17:35
Tenkawaer update17:36
c0rneliusThe diff is we make them our selves and don't use the foundation kernel, but use the foundation sources.17:36
VanfanelTenkawa: SO, does fetch update the raspberrypi-linux-image package? Am I right?17:36
Tenkawa(its made to work for debian, devuan, and ubuntu)17:36
Tenkawayes17:36
Vanfanelok, ok, understood now :D17:36
Tenkawaif you use the update option17:36
VanfanelSorry if I look a bit obtuse...17:36
c0rneliusIts fine.17:37
c0rneliusYeah it will update the kernel and headers.17:37
Vanfanelc0rnelius: "fetch -1" will also update fw blobs, dtbs, etc.. in /boot, right?17:42
c0rneliusyes17:42
Vanfanelgreat!17:42
c0rneliusits all baked into the build process.17:42
Vanfanelc0rnelius: why a 250HZ kernel? Since it's a PREEMPT-enabled kernel, why not 1000HZ?17:43
c0rneliusBeats me :) I use the foundation defaults. Only thing I add is module signing.17:45
Vanfanelc0rnelius: I get it. Thanks! :)17:47
c0rneliusI basic run down of ur options are here -> https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder#usage18:07
c0rneliusNow whom made the img ur running I can't say for sure, so I don't know what they changed, but according to that dmesg and the fact the fetch script is there, I can say the used the builder or a fork of it.18:10
c0rneliusFor example I don't zip my imgs. On that site they appear to be renamed and zipped and in another location named properly and zipped. Either way, I don't zip :) Requested imgs I place here -> https://github.com/pyavitz/binary/releases/tag/images18:13
steevif it's arm64, that's the default for the defconfig because, well, "most arm64 devices are servers"18:25
c0rneliusWell there you go.18:26
Vanfanelc0rnelius: Have you ever tried to load the vc4 module manually? It turns off the HDMI video, do you know why?18:30
VanfanelMaking "modprobe vc4" causes the HDMI video to turn off18:31
VanfanelI boot in full KMS mode,with dtoverlay=vc4-kms-v3d18:31
TenkawaVanfanel: because vc4 aka videocore is the core of the video output if you are using that overlay18:32
VanfanelTenkawa: But I am LOADING it, not UNLOADING it18:34
Vanfanelwhy should modprobe vc4 turn video off??18:34
c0rneliusA good resource for problems is to check here https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues18:34
Tenkawac0rnelius: I don't think its a problem18:34
Vanfanelc0rnelius: I just opened an issue there about that18:34
VanfanelThere's something I don't know here..18:35
c0rneliusNot saying it is, just saying thats a good place to look first.18:35
TenkawaVanfanel: you have to remember that the boot overlays and modules interact with each other so it might have turned it off as a default18:35
Tenkawatheres a overlay command to see whats loaded18:36
Tenkawalet me see if I can find it18:36
Tenkawarun dtoverlay -l when its running ok18:37
Tenkawamake it break. then from ssh run that again18:37
Tenkawasee if it changes18:37
Tenkawa(from sudo or root)18:37
Tenkawaif the list is different then there "is" a way to reactivate that overlay using that command on the fly again18:39
VanfanelTenkawa: No changes.. seems to be a module dependency problem, according to the issue outcome18:58
Tenkawaany errors in /var/log/kern.log or syslog?18:58
VanfanelTenkawa: nope, nothing19:04
Tenkawabummer19:04

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