| NewGnuGuy | on sources.list page, hellekin shows how to add the entries using multi-line cat commands. This works, but is likely confusing to newcomers and is error-prone. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | I'm in the process of doing that. | 00:01 |
| NewGnuGuy | I suggest we just show what lines need to be added, and advise the use of the "apt edit-sources" command instead | 00:02 |
| golinux | Let me finish that then we can work on the presentation of the entries | 00:02 |
| golinux | iceweasel is giving me some grief on git so it's taking longer. | 00:03 |
| NewGnuGuy | apt edit-sources provides basic sanity checks that using straight cat lacks | 00:04 |
| golinux | OK. The first round of including the descriptions of the various repos if up. But the formatting is a bit borked, | 00:10 |
| NewGnuGuy | borked indeed :-P | 00:13 |
| golinux | It just started to do something that it used to do in iceweasel, Cursor is not at the place where characters are typed. | 00:15 |
| golinux | I was working this morning so might just be something on these pages. | 00:16 |
| golinux | Getting better | 00:17 |
| golinux | only one thing to fix. It sucks not to have a preview. | 00:18 |
| golinux | YEA! Finally!! Please check that page for any errors. | 00:30 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: ^^^ | 00:30 |
| NewGnuGuy | checking | 00:30 |
| golinux | Dang, I missed a . | 00:32 |
| golinux | Now let's clean up the sources.list entries. | 00:32 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: Any comments? I'm going to start simplifying the entries. | 00:39 |
| NewGnuGuy | I would reduce each entry to the deb and deb-src lines preceded by a comment line like "# ascii-security" for example | 00:42 |
| golinux | It's done! | 01:25 |
| golinux | Give it a sec to complete. | 01:26 |
| golinux | The spacing nin markdown is driving ne nuts | 01:27 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: I think everything is fixed new. Please double check and I'll move on to the next item on the list. | 01:34 |
| NewGnuGuy | Some of entries on the page line up the URIs follow the deb deb-src pairs and some don't. They should be consistent. | 01:38 |
| NewGnuGuy | s/follow/following/ | 01:39 |
| NewGnuGuy | The page should also recommend people use "apt edit-sources" as root to edit their sources.list file. This will prevent basic editing mistakes from borking their config. | 01:42 |
| NewGnuGuy | golinux: ^^^ | 01:42 |
| golinux | I've always used apt-get but I mostly I use synaptic so not quite sure what to write. | 01:55 |
| NewGnuGuy | Ok, I just found that https://devuan.org/os/#package-repositories contains a lot of the same information as https://beta.devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list | 01:57 |
| golinux | Yes it does. But it's incomplete. Just enough to get someone started. | 01:59 |
| golinux | Some may not make it past that page. | 01:59 |
| golinux | I need to remove the sources.list.d stuff at the bottom of that page. | 02:00 |
| golinux | Adding new derivatives atm so it will be a while. | 02:01 |
| NewGnuGuy | I would suggest add a few sentences along the lines of "To edit you sources.list file, we reccommend running the command `apt edit-sources` as root. This will allow you to make your changes with your preferred text editor while also providing basic sanity checks." | 02:02 |
| NewGnuGuy | on sources.list page ^^^ | 02:03 |
| golinux | OK. Thanks for that. We'll need to confirm that apt is now the recommended way to go before I put it on the site. | 02:06 |
| golinux | If yes. I'll add your para | 02:06 |
| golinux | Can you please follow up on that? | 02:18 |
| golinux | KatolaZ: ^^^ | 02:19 |
| golinux | I need a break. bbl | 02:19 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: Does the sources.list page look OK now? | 02:20 |
| NewGnuGuy | Some of entries on the page align the URIs following the deb deb-src pairs and some don't. They should be consistent. | 02:22 |
| golinux | I just uploaded a possible fix | 02:29 |
| golinux | (I saw it the first time ;) ) | 02:29 |
| golinux | (and then forgot) | 02:30 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: Better? | 02:31 |
| NewGnuGuy | better | 02:34 |
| NewGnuGuy | bbl, dinner now. (Yes, it's a late dinner). | 02:35 |
| golinux | I never had lunch! Hardly eaten all day. | 02:35 |
| golinux | When you get back, could you please look at this page? | 02:36 |
| golinux | https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros | 02:36 |
| NewGnuGuy | you should eat something | 03:00 |
| NewGnuGuy | In the FluXuan description there's a space before the slash. The space shouldn't be there. | 03:07 |
| golinux | Thanks. git and my cursor aren't in sync today. | 03:11 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: That space is on https://sourceforge.net/projects/fluxuan/ | 03:14 |
| NewGnuGuy | Also contrasting computer and laptop sounds weird. Contrasting desktop and laptop sounds better | 03:15 |
| golinux | Maybe it's a typo and should just be removed? | 03:15 |
| NewGnuGuy | I would remove it and inform the FluXuan dev(s) | 03:15 |
| golinux | Maybe PC or laptop? | 03:16 |
| NewGnuGuy | I would consider a laptop a personal computer, so that sounds weird as well | 03:17 |
| golinux | How about desktop or laptop | 03:19 |
| * golinux heads back to the kitchen | 03:20 | |
| NewGnuGuy | that sounds good | 03:20 |
| golinux | I'll change it after some food. Good we're in the same tz | 03:21 |
| golinux | bbiab | 03:21 |
| NewGnuGuy | I'm guessing the description for Dowse came from Jaromil? | 03:35 |
| golinux | From the website | 03:49 |
| golinux | I may have edited a bit. | 03:49 |
| golinux | Probably Fredd | 03:50 |
| golinux | You want to change something? | 03:51 |
| NewGnuGuy | Well it's a rubbish description. | 03:53 |
| NewGnuGuy | You should tell Fredd or whoever that they are bad at describing their own distro. | 03:54 |
| golinux | The site is much, much worse. I don't send anyone there anymore. It's embarrassing. | 03:55 |
| golinux | I'm not going to boss Fredd around. He hasn't asked for my opinion. | 03:56 |
| NewGnuGuy | I've been to the site. It's pretty bad. I had to work way too hard to understand what Dowse actually does. | 03:57 |
| golinux | The old Dowse white paper that jaromil wrote was quite good. | 04:00 |
| golinux | Don;t we have enought to worry about? | 04:00 |
| golinux | The Dyne site has suffered from his attention also. | 04:01 |
| NewGnuGuy | The page title is "Free Software Distros Based on Devuan". When I read "Free Software Distros" I think distro that follow the GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines. | 04:02 |
| golinux | Actually now that I think about it, I snagged that description from the dyne site. The Dowse site was useless. | 04:03 |
| NewGnuGuy | Only EterTICs, Gnuinos, heads, and Dyne:bolic fit in that category. | 04:03 |
| golinux | I think we should dump the "Free Software" part because some of them may have non-free components | 04:04 |
| NewGnuGuy | Perhaps change the heading to just "Distros Based on Devuan" | 04:04 |
| golinux | Exactly what I was thinking. | 04:05 |
| NewGnuGuy | Consensus! | 04:05 |
| golinux | I'm ready to pour some tea. bbia few | 04:05 |
| NewGnuGuy | Tea sounds good. I'm getting some too. | 04:06 |
| golinux | Well agreement at least (consensus doesn't require 100% just a majority). | 04:06 |
| golinux | See you in a bit. You've been a tremendous help. | 04:06 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy: I just added some more notes to the pad. When we continue, It should probably be on #devuan-www | 06:04 |
| NewGnuGuy | ok, I should be back online sometime tomorrow afternoon. | 06:06 |
| NewGnuGuy | ttyl | 06:08 |
| KatolaZ | golinux: nope, apt is not the reccomended anything | 09:50 |
| KatolaZ | people can use whatever they want | 09:51 |
| KatolaZ | and we won't choose for them | 09:51 |
| KatolaZ | either apt-cache+apt-get+apt-key or apt or aptitude or synaptic or bare dpkg | 09:51 |
| KatolaZ | there is no need at all to suggest "the right way" to do things | 09:52 |
| KatolaZ | at least not in an official page about Devuan repository | 09:52 |
| KatolaZ | which has little to do with the actual tool used to pull packages from those repos | 09:52 |
| KatolaZ | : | 09:52 |
| KatolaZ | :| | 09:52 |
| golinux | Please don't :| me. Not my idea. Suggested by one of the editors. Didn't want to put it up w/o your approval. Actually I didn't want to at all and you just supported my instincts. | 09:56 |
| golinux | IOW, I'm just trying to get it right. | 09:57 |
| KatolaZ | ":|" is not an insult | 09:59 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 09:59 |
| KatolaZ | I am just saying that we are here because we refused "The One Right Thing" that RedHat wanted us to accept | 10:00 |
| KatolaZ | now, apt-cache/apt-get has never been deprecated | 10:00 |
| KatolaZ | and will continue to work | 10:00 |
| KatolaZ | despite what the apt developers think about it | 10:01 |
| golinux | Thanks for the clarification,. I've never used apt or aptitude. | 10:01 |
| golinux | So don't have a clue. | 10:01 |
| golinux | I left you a PM earlier. Did you see it? | 10:02 |
| KatolaZ | no idea about removing folders, sorry | 10:02 |
| KatolaZ | :( | 10:02 |
| golinux | Should I remove those files so nobody can pull them up? The empty folder shouldn't hurt anything | 10:03 |
| golinux | They are all related to sources.list.d | 10:05 |
| KatolaZ | dunno | 10:12 |
| KatolaZ | have no idea | 10:12 |
| golinux | :| | 10:15 |
| golinux | LOL! | 10:15 |
| NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ parazyd jaromil: Before making final isos/images, it would be nice if the base-files package could be edited to list the Devuan version as "ASCII" instead of "ascii/ceres" like it does now. It looks like nextime has made the most edits to the package, though Evilham is listed as the maintainer. | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF?! | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, highlight spamming | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 15:46 |
| NewGnuGuy | Oops I tripped the bot | 15:47 |
| NewGnuGuy | Did the message send? | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't trip at 3 nick highlight | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NewGnuGuy: err yes, the one with three nicks got through | 15:48 |
| NewGnuGuy | ok good | 15:48 |
| NewGnuGuy | g2g bbl | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Donnager: config help supybot.plugins.ChanTracker.hilightPermit | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Donnager: config channel #devuan-dev supybot.plugins.ChanTracker.hilightPermit | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, anyway I've set it to 5 now | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was 3 | 16:05 |
| fsmithred | KatolaZ, are you here? | 16:59 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: yes | 19:44 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: codenames are always lowercase | 19:44 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: but yes, we should remove ceres from there | 19:48 |
| KatolaZ | and leave only ascii | 19:48 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: building base-files now | 20:27 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: done | 20:30 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: anything else? | 20:32 |
| KatolaZ | it's in the repos now | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 DocScrutinizer05 | 20:50 |
| fsmithred | KatolaZ, I'm back. | 20:52 |
| fsmithred | and want to talk about firmware | 20:53 |
| fsmithred | I think we need to make it clear that the only way to avoid non-free firmware is to use one of the expert installs and select a mirror. | 20:53 |
| NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ: I'm comparing Devuan's changes from Debian to the base-files package here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/base-files/compare/jessie...suites%2Fascii | 21:47 |
| NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ: In the debian/README on line 10, the question should read 'Should it not read "ceres" or "unstable"?' | 21:49 |
| NewGnuGuy | https://wiki.xfce.org/faq second question | 22:38 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: ? | 22:57 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: that one is a single answer to the two questions above | 22:59 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: ? | 22:59 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: so the question is asked only in expert mode? | 23:00 |
| NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ: the xfce.org link was directed to golinux | 23:01 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: I was talking about the base-files README | 23:01 |
| KatolaZ | NewGnuGuy: the first two questions are about upgrading to either testing or unstable | 23:02 |
| KatolaZ | and the answer is the same | 23:03 |
| KatolaZ | two questions -> one answer | 23:03 |
| NewGnuGuy | The Devuan edit to line 10 changes sid to beowulf. It should change sid to ceres. | 23:04 |
| fsmithred | KatolaZ, I'm here | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | yes, select one of the expert installs and select a mirror. | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | both conditions must be met to get the question. | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | and without the question, firmware gets installed | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | (firmware-realtek in my case) | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | so there's no way to do an off-line install without getting firmware | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | one possible solution is to make a desktop-live iso without the firmware | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | but that's just a partial solution | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | another idea is to add 'priority=low' to the boot entries for the simple installs | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | but that probably isn't a nice thing to do. | 23:08 |
| NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ: In order to devuanize the questions, the codenames are changed to their Devuan counterparts. This was done incorrectly in the second question. The reference to sid became a reference to beowulf when it should have become a reference to ceres. | 23:08 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: ok | 23:37 |
| KatolaZ | I could try to change the priority of the question | 23:37 |
| KatolaZ | let me have a look | 23:37 |
| fsmithred | I did that with a previous version of refractainstaller | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | there used to be two buttons - simple install and expert install | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | I changed them both to expert install for one version, as a transition | 23:39 |
| KatolaZ | but this has to do with debconf | 23:40 |
| KatolaZ | fsmithred: do you have the exact question it asked you at hand? | 23:41 |
| fsmithred | no | 23:41 |
| fsmithred | paraphrase: your hardware needs some non-free firmware, do you want it or not? | 23:41 |
| KatolaZ | you must have the install log though | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | and then a similar question for contrib | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | no, it's gone | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | last install was with a mirror | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | oh wait | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | that one will have the question | 23:42 |
| KatolaZ | it's in /var/log/installer | 23:43 |
| fsmithred | nope. sorry. I didn't complete the install. | 23:43 |
| fsmithred | got as far as tasksel then chrooted /target to see if firmware was installed | 23:43 |
| KatolaZ | oki | 23:44 |
| fsmithred | if you want, I'll do it again and let it complete | 23:44 |
| fsmithred | but you'll probably be asleep before it's done | 23:44 |
| KatolaZ | well, at this point it is probably better to put it in the release notes | 23:45 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that's what I thought. | 23:45 |
| KatolaZ | I am still around but I am not sure it's easy to pinpoint where the question is actually asked | 23:45 |
| KatolaZ | since it depends on the path taken by the installer | 23:45 |
| fsmithred | it came immediately after the question about repos - security and updates | 23:46 |
| golinux | KatolaZ when you finish the current discussion, I would like you to verify if this statement of hellekin's is true. | 23:47 |
| golinux | msiism has challenged that it is incorrect: | 23:47 |
| KatolaZ | golinux: which one? | 23:47 |
| golinux | This process bearing PID 1 is in charge of services running on the system: it ensures they start in order, verifies they are running fine, shuts them down, and inherits them when they crash. This init process MUST not die, or the whole system goes away with it. | 23:48 |
| golinux | Does PID1 inherit crashed processes? msiism says no | 23:49 |
| KatolaZ | golinux: a crashed process is dead | 23:49 |
| KatolaZ | so nobody inherits it | 23:49 |
| KatolaZ | init inherits the children of crashed processes | 23:49 |
| golinux | So I can remove "and inherits them when they crash"? | 23:50 |
| KatolaZ | but why do we need this level of detail?!? | 23:50 |
| golinux | Ask hellekin. | 23:50 |
| KatolaZ | o_O | 23:50 |
| golinux | It might be useful to some users | 23:50 |
| KatolaZ | golinux: users should learn to use wikipedia | 23:50 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 23:51 |
| KatolaZ | if a user does not know what init does, they have no reason to learn it from us | 23:51 |
| golinux | For now I just remove that pfrase and leave the rest | 23:51 |
| KatolaZ | and in such an incomplete and fragmented way | 23:51 |
| KatolaZ | no information is better that wrong information | 23:51 |
| golinux | Is the rest of that sentence OK? Or are you saying it's not? | 23:52 |
| KatolaZ | golinux: it's totally out of context | 23:52 |
| KatolaZ | could you please provide the actual link? | 23:52 |
| golinux | Not on that page. | 23:52 |
| KatolaZ | -_- | 23:53 |
| golinux | https://beta.devuan.org/os/ | 23:53 |
| golinux | NewGnuGuy and I just reworked that whole page. | 23:54 |
| golinux | Except for that one question | 23:54 |
| KatolaZ | we must always say "Devuan ASCII" and not "ASCII" since "ASCII" alone is something else | 23:54 |
| KatolaZ | I would probably just remove ", and inherits them when they crash" | 23:55 |
| KatolaZ | under "Available Images" we should add "CDROM (3)" | 23:56 |
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