libera/#devuan-dev/ Wednesday, 2018-06-20

pixelherodevI tried out Devuan Jessie a while back, and while I liked it, there were too many broken parts for my taste. Some parts of MATE didn't work, the network-manager didn't work, etc. On a whim, I installed it again today, and I was floored. This project has matured nicely, and I'll try to make time and help out a bit :D07:21
pixelherodevFor starters, there's a couple of applets for MATE that aren't in Debian that I'd like to package for Devuan if that's okay.07:22
KatolaZpixelherodev: you know that there is a new stable called ASCII right?07:25
pixelherodevYeah07:26
KatolaZ:)07:26
pixelherodevThat's what I meant07:26
pixelherodevI installed ASCII today07:26
KatolaZok, wasn't clear07:26
KatolaZsorry07:26
pixelherodevI realized that but wasn't sure how to amend my post, my fault :P07:26
pixelherodevs/amend/correct/ - I couldn't figure out how to add to it without it being awkward.07:26
pixelherodevThe second 4GB RAM stick and faster+larger hard drive I upgraded the laptop with earlier today obviously didn't hurt, but the improvement is quite noticeable. This is now in my top #2 distros list (Gentoo still wins, sorry!)07:30
KatolaZpixelherodev: no need to apologize07:31
KatolaZ:)07:32
KatolaZnobody is selling Devuan here07:32
pixelherodev...I might. I now have a CD with it I don't need, I'll see if I can pawn it off later lol07:32
pixelherodevJust to confirm, brisk-menu isn't currently packed in Devuan, correct?07:38
pixelherodev`apt search brisk` came up empty, but I wanted to double-check.07:39
pixelherodevOh wait, it's been added to Sid in Debian. Never mind then :)07:40
golinuxpixelherodev: Sid = Ceres in Devuan07:43
golinuxBest to get brisk from Devuan repos.07:44
pixelherodevAlready cloned built and installed :P07:46
KatolaZpixelherodev: pkginfo.devuan.org07:47
pixelherodev...right, thanks.07:47
pixelherodevI'll try out Beowulf I guess. Thanks for that link, it was a huge help07:48
pixelherodevWow. Did the fonts change from ASCII to Beowulf or are my eyes worse than I thought?07:52
KatolaZpixelherodev: which fonts?07:53
pixelherodevThe defaults I guess?07:53
pixelherodevThe fonts in Hexchat and window titles in the panel for starters07:53
pixelherodevThey look different suddenly after upgrading.07:53
pixelherodev*That*'s what kept bugging me!08:45
pixelherodevHow do I get udisks to stop asking for password (in terminals) or failing outright (through GUI)?08:46
pixelherodevAlso, how can I stop my computer from instantly shutting down when I hit the power button?14:31
pixelherodevIt does that on every DE and before I've logged in if that helps14:31
pixelherodevNever mind, figured that out14:33
pixelherodevRan a grep on /etc for power-related stuff and found /etc/elogind/logind.conf, was able to figure it out from there14:33
nemoSo... mate-power-manager is banned - mildly unfortunate for all of us on the mate desktop + devuan (my SO, my father in law, me...)15:31
nemo#mate says it is due to udev dep, which is precisely why eudev was created15:31
nemoI note that mate-power-manager in gentoo has following:15:31
nemo    systemd? ( sys-apps/systemd )15:31
nemo    !systemd? ( >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.9.2 )"15:31
nemono additional patches either15:32
nemoso... is a rebuild sufficient?15:32
nemohm. only 1.18.1 though15:34
nemoI don't have mate on my gentoo machine but emerge -pv of ~x86 mate-power-manager-1.18.1 did not pull it in15:37
nemo[ebuild  N     ] sys-auth/consolekit-1.2.0::gentoo  USE="acl pam policykit -cgroups -debug -doc -evdev -pm-utils (-selinux) {-test} -udev" 1,100 KiB15:37
nemo[ebuild  N    ~] mate-extra/mate-power-manager-1.18.1::gentoo  USE="applet -gnome-keyring -pm-utils -policykit -systemd {-test}" 3,135 KiB15:37
nemoI don't know much about debian package rebuilding, but maybe I can repackage the debian build in a similar fashion15:38
nemohttps://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/mate-extra/mate-power-manager/mate-power-manager-1.18.1.ebuild15:38
nemomaybe the issue is the version of power manager in ascii..15:55
nemooh. and my buddy's main complaint on his recent conversion to devuan was he found the installer really confusing - specifically the sudo vs su part - apparently he screwed up one install as a result ☺15:56
nemobut I remember that coming up on #devuan like... over a year ago15:56
KatolaZnemo: it must have been the installed shipped with desktop-live, maybe15:57
onefangThat's one of the parts where even I was confused about one of the questions.  Just did what it told me to do, which is to simply leave at defaults anything I didn't understand.15:57
KatolaZany feedbac on that will help improving things :)15:59
KatolaZs/bac/back/16:04
onefangI was too busy tearing my hair out over nVidia drivers to make desktop-live installer notes, but I'll likely run it again some time later.16:06
nemoKatolaZ: oh... the live USB has sudo and su setup so the installer running from the USB doesn't know which one to use?16:09
KatolaZnemo: ?16:11
KatolaZnemo: the installer is just asking you what you prefer :)16:11
nemoKatolaZ: was just trying to understand what you meant by "it must have been the installed shipped with desktop-live maybe"16:11
nemoKatolaZ: that's what I basically figured, and what I told him, he just felt it was not a useful question16:12
nemomaybe tuck it out of way in some advanced thingy16:12
KatolaZnemo: if you don't understand a question, leave the default16:12
KatolaZif you need Ubuntu, install ubuntu16:12
nemoheh16:12
KatolaZ:)16:12
nemoone more bit of feedback from him ☺16:12
nemo08:15 <@sheepluva> nemo: hm. devuan seem to have no official support/LTS/end-of-life O_o16:12
KatolaZ:)16:13
nemoI guessed that it was basically debian's16:13
nemo09:58 <@sheepluva> nemo: I did the same WAG, but if they want to be taken seriously in the enterprise sector they should really specify their support time spans16:13
KatolaZI wonder whether people ask these questions also for other distros16:13
nemoI have no idea if "seriously in enterprise" is a goal16:13
nemodepends on the distro I imagine16:13
KatolaZor on the user, I guess16:13
nemowell. I do care about EOL for debian and ubuntu.  I care a lot less for gentoo16:14
nemodifferent models16:14
nemoand minor distros you should just be grateful they are still there a month later16:14
onefanglol16:15
KatolaZthe fact that people ask these questions for Devuan should tell you a lot then :)16:15
KatolaZ(meaning that they think it will not disappear a month later...)16:15
nemowell. I'm hopeful devuan will flourish16:15
nemothe fact that it is still 95+% debian probably means debian EOL rules.  but might be nice to mention explicitly16:16
KatolaZthanks for the suggestion nemo16:16
onefangMy biggest gripe with refracta is that it will twiddle it's thumbs doing stuff in the background, but give no feedback to the user that they should just sit and wait.16:16
nemooh. and on the mate-power-manager - waddaya think? would it be possible to build it from debsrc? will that ban be a problem even if I did?16:16
KatolaZnemo: why is mate0-power-manager banned?16:17
nemoKatolaZ: udev dependency according to #mate16:17
KatolaZimpossible16:17
nemoKatolaZ: but ofc gentoo has eudev for that, and now the gentoo 1.18 mate-power-manager package has made systemd optional too in preference of consolekit16:17
nemoKatolaZ: so yeah. I perked up when I saw that on the devuan banned packages list16:18
KatolaZnemo: only packages who depend EXPLICITLY on systemd are banned from devuan16:18
nemohm16:18
KatolaZso this means that mate-power-manager has an explicit dependency on systemd16:18
nemoKatolaZ: so maybe another package from upstream that might need a fork/src patch? ☹16:18
nemoKatolaZ: there's no patches in the gentoo repo, so the explicit requirement for systemd must be in the debian build16:18
KatolaZdunno nemo16:19
KatolaZuntil 4 months ago mate was not even installable/usable on ASCII16:19
nemooh interesting16:20
nemogood thing I didn't upgrade her devuan machine then ☺16:20
nemoshe kinda needs her mate16:20
KatolaZnemo: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/mate-power-manager16:21
KatolaZthe package depends explicitly on systemd16:21
nemohm. 1.1616:21
KatolaZin theory there is an "or consolekit" there16:21
nemooh?16:21
nemook cool16:21
nemoso I'd need to rebuild against consolekit, then remove the ban from the devuan list16:22
KatolaZuh?16:23
KatolaZhow can you remove it from the banned list?16:23
KatolaZ:D16:23
KatolaZlet me double-check with parazyd16:24
KatolaZmaybe there is no need to rebuild it16:24
nemoKatolaZ: O_o  I can't?16:24
nemoKatolaZ: figured it was something that could be done locally??16:25
KatolaZuh?16:25
KatolaZthe ban is on the repo16:25
KatolaZif you build it locally you don't need to do anything16:25
KatolaZjust install the local package16:25
KatolaZbut16:25
KatolaZyou might just try to get the debian package16:25
KatolaZand install it16:25
KatolaZunmodified16:25
nemokk16:25
KatolaZI guess amprolla does not handle some "|" correctly16:26
nemoKatolaZ: oh yeah. 'cause you guys have some libsystemd0 stub shim right?16:26
KatolaZo_O16:26
nemoKatolaZ: I mean, to ensure packages built with it aren't missing symbols16:26
KatolaZthat's not related here16:26
nemook...16:26
KatolaZI guess the dep is just plainly wrong on the Debian side16:26
nemothought if mate-power-manager was built against systemd it would need that to even launch16:26
KatolaZthey meant it to depend on libpam-systemd16:27
nemooh good16:27
KatolaZand instead put systemd16:27
nemomaybe they don't care that much about accurate deps given systemd is assumed now16:27
KatolaZnemo: can you please try to install the Debian package and report?16:28
nemoKatolaZ: well first I have to upgrade her machine to ascii 😃16:28
nemoshe left it on this time16:28
nemoso I can try doing it remotely16:28
nemoit's still on jessie16:28
nemohm. rebooting could be a problem. it usually is.16:29
onefangRemote upgrades, fun fun fun.16:29
nemohee16:29
KatolaZnemo: why do you need to reboot?16:29
nemoKatolaZ: well it is a power manager tool16:29
KatolaZI have remotely upgraded no less than 20 machines from jessie to ascii16:29
nemowas thinking it might depend on, dunno, acpi or some other kernel facility16:29
KatolaZand half of them where debian jessie originally16:29
onefangI've spent most of the last week scripting and testing a debootstrap ASCII install, so that later I can remote upgrade my server that's on the other side of the planet.16:29
nemoso tough to test reliably w/o reboot right?16:29
KatolaZnemo: a reboot is *necessary* only if you change kernel16:30
KatolaZor some specific kernel options16:30
onefangI tend to reboot after any update that will modify the boot up process.16:30
nemoKatolaZ: well that'll definitely happen on upgrade, but whatev.  it probably shouldn't limit testing the package16:31
nemoat least verifying it runs16:31
nemohere goes...16:31
onefangI agree, it's not *necessary*, but it's best to test that stuff sooner, rather than later, when shit goes wrong.16:31
KatolaZbbl16:32
nemojust wondering before I go to too much trouble16:32
nemois there a nicer way to do it than editing sources.list ?16:32
onefangEditing sources.list should be trivial enough for someone that is confident doing a remote upgrade.16:33
nemoonefang: heh16:34
nemoonefang: it's not so much the vim + %s/// that's the worry16:34
nemoit's just that there might be something else needed as well16:34
nemobut here goes16:34
onefangThat's why I've spent a week scripting and testing.  So there's no surprises when I do it for real.16:35
nemoonefang: hm. slight delay I guess. she's actually using it right now and needs me to run handbrake.  ☺16:38
nemohuzzah for ssh -YC16:38
jaromilahoy... pad for tonite?17:47
golinuxhttps://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/x7D2m3ojX78lP4xPNv3Bvg/G1SACB6iJrBzFzLg64kJnkJ6/17:55
jaromilthanks golinux18:07
gnu_srs1nemo: KatolaZ: Did you see my mail about mate-power-manager to devuan-dev? It should not be banned, it works fine ;)20:15
nemognu_srs1: I would not have seen your email obv ☺20:16
nemognu_srs1: and I'm still upgrading20:16
nemobut good to know20:16
nemohopefully someone w/ a + can fix that20:18
KatolaZgnu_srs1: we are double-checking that20:18
KatolaZmaybe it was erroneously banned by amprolla20:19
nemohttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2006  clearly surprised a few people on here20:20
nemosomeone made a repo20:20
KatolaZnemo: the repoat hezeh has been around for about 2 years :)20:26
golinuxAntoFox maintains MATE for Devuan and that is his personal working space.20:26
KatolaZmaybe more20:26
KatolaZnemo: it just seems that mate-power-manager was unduly banned by amprolla20:27
nemoKatolaZ: I mean. someone hosted a build on their repo.  I have no idea when the repo appeared ☺20:28
golinuxWho is "someone"20:28
golinux?20:28
nemogolinux: ... Antofox was elaborating on "someone made a repo"20:29
nemogolinux: anyway. the build is pretty new20:29
nemodates to earlier this month20:30
KatolaZnemo: hezeh is by AntoFox20:31
nemoright?20:32
nemoKatolaZ: where's the confusion ☺20:32
KatolaZI don't know20:33
KatolaZI am not confused20:33
KatolaZ:)20:33
nemome either! so everyone is fine20:33
KatolaZgreat20:33
nemoanyway. yeah this situation w/ power manager seems to be new, clearly folks care about it, and appears to be an accident so hopefully by the time she actually gets back to her computer it'll already have been fixed ☺20:34
jaromili have lined up more 'old business' in the pad22:23
jaromilmade of defined actions that were easy to take away from the post-ascii bikeshed22:23
jaromillets try to keep the meeting short and focused please!22:25
golinuxThank you for doing that.22:29
golinuxjaromil: ^^^22:29
jaromilmoment22:34

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!