LeePen | Hi. I am considering adopting Debian systemd-shim. Not because I am interested in it, but because the lack of version 10.4 in testing seems to be a block on maintaining alternative inits in Debian. | 19:11 |
---|---|---|
LeePen | See #903295. | 19:12 |
LeePen | I see there is a sysvinit upload to Debian experimental today. Does somebody else have an idea to take on systemd-shim too? I don't want to duplicate. | 19:17 |
kilobyte | LeePen: -shim doesn't need to be adopted, it needs to be shot, burned, buried, receive a tombstone written in Comic Sans, with an organic grave marker you can produce with your lower back | 20:14 |
kilobyte | LeePen: we plan to replace it with elogind | 20:14 |
kilobyte | shim never worked (at least for me) in the first place -- and its purpose is to run systemd when it's not pid 1 | 20:15 |
LeePen | Thanks. I get that from Devuan's POV, but there is no elogind in Debian (yet?) | 20:43 |
LeePen | Would elogind in Debian enable a fix for #903295 et al by replacing -shim? | 20:46 |
Centurion_Dan | LeePen: you don't want systemd, then you should run devuan | 20:48 |
kilobyte | Centurion_Dan: bad thinking -- you guys don't have anything close to the manpower to fix regressions | 20:49 |
LeePen | I am and enjoying it. | 20:49 |
Centurion_Dan | kilobyte: whatever... | 20:49 |
LeePen | My thinking is that if we keep alternative inits viable in Debian, Devuan will have less work to do with limited person-power. | 20:50 |
kilobyte | it's Debian who by default put an alternative, extremely bogus, poor excuse for an init. Sysvinit is the standard one; other alternatives being openrc and so on. | 20:53 |
kilobyte | you have a point that getting GUIs installable again is pretty urgent, though | 20:53 |
LeePen | Yes, I am not defending Debian's decision which is why I have switched to Devuan. I am just trying to be pragmatic in terms of reducing Debian's excuse for further reduction in init diversity which will cause Devuan more problems. | 20:56 |
kilobyte | right | 20:57 |
kilobyte | as opposed to sysvinit where somewhere around 10-20 people(!) started contributing after the call on debian-devel@lists.d.o, one person sent me some packages, and that's all | 20:58 |
kilobyte | I planned to depart for the family home for the weekend, but I can do that tomorrow morning; looks like elogind won't do itself... | 21:00 |
kilobyte | unless you have a _trivial_ patch for the meantime | 21:01 |
Centurion_Dan | kilobyte: for elogind just fork the source from git.devuan.org... | 21:02 |
Centurion_Dan | it should build unchanged in debian | 21:02 |
kilobyte | Centurion_Dan: that's what I'm using on this machine -- but that's only good for a person like us | 21:02 |
kilobyte | the vast majority of work is making it upgradeable from systemd | 21:03 |
LeePen | kilobyte: Nothing trivial, I have just spent the afternoon trying to get my head around the various threads over the last 10 days and see where it is worth spending time and effort. | 21:03 |
kilobyte | yeah :( | 21:04 |
kilobyte | looks like the packages need to be at least briefly coinstallable with systemd | 21:05 |
kilobyte | unless someone beats into systemd maintainers that systemd should be removable while it's running | 21:05 |
Centurion_Dan | you may find people have to switchout systemd first and then install elogind... | 21:09 |
kilobyte | can't do that without removing most of the packages (on GUI systems) | 21:10 |
LeePen | I notice the is a RFP for elogind: #905388 | 21:10 |
Centurion_Dan | kilobyte: We can migrate debian -> devuan with one reboot. | 21:10 |
Centurion_Dan | I really don't know if it's possible to do that in debian.. | 21:12 |
* kilobyte looks at Lorenzo Puliti's packaging. It looks... weird. | 21:20 | |
LeePen | I have just been looking at elogind. I agree replacing systemd with logind is difficult. | 22:11 |
LeePen | However, #903295 is a box without systemd. So if elogind and libpam-elogind (provides libpam-systemd) were available in Debian, I think that would be a fix. | 22:13 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!