libera/#devuan-dev/ Thursday, 2020-01-30

golinuxI need a guinea pig who is using the cinnabar theme on beowulf and has chromium installed00:04
golinuxAny volunteers?00:05
yetiI can put chromium on 2 VMs (i386/amd64)00:57
yetibeo+xfce already installed00:57
masonAnd... I'm behind on deliverables, but I'll try to address that by meeting time.03:16
Evilhamz10:10
masonEvilham: A sleeping noise!15:03
gnu_srsLeePen: The link to devuan.../britney please! Cannot find it.15:57
Evilham"/britney on pkgmaster" --> https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/britney15:58
gnu_srsEvilham: tks :)16:00
Evilhamdid we have a pre-beta iso for beowulf?16:34
Evilhamfsmithred? :-D16:34
golinuxThere are for the -live isos16:37
golinuxBut not yet for netinstall16:38
golinuxdevuan_beowulf_3.0.0-test_2020-01-15_i386_desktop-live.iso16:40
golinuxI forget where I got it16:40
* Evilham reaches to refracta's isos on its server anyway :-p16:45
masonrrq: The testing netboot ISO I'm trying now still gives me us.deb,devuan.org as my top pick, and pkgmaster as second pick. If we want most people on deb.devuan.org this might want to be amended.16:47
Evilhammason: mind sharing where the ISO came from?16:49
golinuxon borta somewhere.  I have that too.16:50
masonEvilham: https://borta.rrq.id.au/16:50
masontook me a minute to dig it out of the logs16:50
Evilham<3 thanks16:50
EvilhamI searched for iso and didn't find it '-.-16:50
masoni386 only, but that's fine for testing some of the stuff I want to see16:50
Evilhammason: mind opening a bug against the installer with critical importance about the default mirror?16:51
masonHm, and in fact I get base-installer: error: exiting on error base-installer/debootstrap-failed16:52
Evilhamit'd be silly to claim CC.deb.devuan.org is deprecated and have that be the default16:52
masonEvilham: I was going to just mention it at the meeting, but I can do a bug as well or instead.16:52
masonI'll do a bug as well, as that's better for tracking.16:52
Evilhamprecisely :-)16:53
golinuxAs you might have read, rrq has been occupied with other tasks16:53
Evilhamyup, bummer16:53
golinuxNo kidding.  My heart was racing even to imagine it16:54
Evilhamstay away from strong emotions :-D16:54
Evilhamthings will be fine :-D16:54
masonWhat venue? I didn't latch onto whatever news it was.16:54
masonI hope he's okay, in any event.16:56
Evilhamyeah, everything is alright, no need to worry16:56
masonIn what venue did this come up? If it's something I have access to I'll go look again.16:56
golinuxEvilham: That was a figurative description not reality.16:56
masonIf it's not, that's fine.16:56
golinuxmason: You were present and commented on it when it happened in this very channel16:58
masonAh...16:58
masonOh, that. Alright. Yeah.16:59
golinux:D16:59
Lydia_KPackaging..  there needs to be more packaging work done?17:00
masonSo, funny thing - the Devuan server I finally managed to install the other day (ZFS root but legacy, not UEFI, which made it trickier) is my new backup server.17:01
golinuxLydia_K: Welcome home!17:04
Lydia_KHeya!17:05
golinuxLydia_K: Packaging yes. But not removing libsystemd0 anymore17:05
Lydia_K:(17:06
golinuxelogind makes that unnecessary17:07
masonRemoving libelogind0 at some point should be a goal, since it's just a renamed piece of systemd. Doesn't sit well with the project's goal.17:08
masonIt'd be like renaming PulseAudio to ThrobAudio and pretending you no longer had PulseAudio installed.17:09
Evilhammason: we had this discussion some days ago, check the code and you'll see that your claim is not true :-D17:09
golinuxYes, but until we find another way, that's the best option,.17:09
masonNo, I know you pointed out that it's a subset.17:09
Evilhama quite small subset, which is not the same as "renamed and published"17:10
masonAnd certainly not using systemd as the service manager is big. But I'd like to break free of using APIs Lennart designs.17:10
fsmithredlibsystemd0/libelogind0 is harder to get rid of than dbus17:10
Evilhamanyway, TL;DR current state of affairs: removing libsystemd0 is a PITA and there is not enough willl/personpower to do that, elogind offers libelogind0 which is a very small subset of libsystemd0 and is ABI compatible17:11
Evilhamso, the current compromise is: for beowulf libelogind0 is fine, for chimaera, we can talk about that when the time comes17:11
Evilhamwhich means: just removing libsystemd0 is not enough reason to fork a package on beowulf17:12
masonYeah, I agree that it's almost certainly too late for Beowulf.17:12
Lydia_KNot having been part of the discussions it does sound like it's just not worth the effort right now, we need to have released products first and foremost, a few API calls are a far cry from PID1 control.17:12
masonLydia_K: The slippery slope worries me.17:12
Evilhamindeed <317:12
Lydia_KI totally understand that mason, and I agree with you in principal, but there's also the need to actually get things out the door.17:13
Evilhammason: then I'd suggest that as soon as beowulf is released, you start forking packages for chimaera :-D17:13
Lydia_KTotally should be a long term goal.17:13
Evilhamuntil then, that kind of comments are really just a waste of bandwidth17:13
Evilham(and I mean human bandwidth)17:13
masonEvilham: I think a regular reminder of the aim is a useful thing, not a waste.17:14
golinuxmason: Forking and maintaining in perpetuity.17:14
Evilhamno, while it's not actionable it's noise17:14
masonNo one needs to discuss it with me, as long as you don't mind my stating it once in a while and accepting packages if/when they're offered, if they are correct.17:14
masonEvilham: Thank you for your opinion. I disagree, which is fine.17:15
Lydia_KAnywho..  sounds like I need to get back on the packaging train.17:15
Evilhamsome testing is quite appreciated, off my memory there aren't many packages left for beowulf now17:16
Evilhambut there are some bugs that require checking and I haven't been able to17:16
Lydia_KI should spin up a VM for dev work and get that rolling.17:16
EvilhamLydia_K: would you like me to setup a small list of bugs that should be checked?17:16
Lydia_KSure :)17:18
Evilhamyou still have access to devuan-packages and all that, correct?17:18
Lydia_Kuuuggghhh... I will have to check.. it's been a while..  probably?17:20
Evilhamplease take a look and complain if not :-)17:20
Lydia_KAh! Complaining! I can do that! ;)17:21
Evilham\o/ appropriate task assignment17:21
Lydia_KLOL17:21
masonEvilham: This is an odd situation. My personal goal is to put energy into a project that matches my goals, the most important of which are promoting free software diversity and opportunity and not throwing away methods that work in the name of SNS Syndrome. I'm not sure why you're putting effort into presenting that this concern is a waste of time and bandwidth. It seems counterproductive to work17:25
masontowards lessing another volunteer's enthusiasm for the project. Harmful even.17:25
masonIt's worth your thinking about this.17:25
EvilhamI'm asking you to please bring this up again as soon as you see beowulf is out :-D17:26
Evilhamand please let it be until then, that's it17:26
masonAlright. That's a different tone, but it's fair and I agree.17:27
Lydia_KWell I can still login to the jenkins box, the gitlab server does not seem to be responding at the moment, at least from this network.17:29
Evilhammason:  I see we were talking past eachother, thank you for asking for clarification :-)17:29
golinuxLydia_K: There is a new setup.  You are probably pointing to the old one17:34
golinuxI am not the on to tell you where that is.  LOL!17:34
fsmithredwe're still using the old gitlab17:34
golinuxJenkins17:34
fsmithredand Lydia_K is in the devuan-packages group17:34
golinuxnot gitlab17:35
fsmithredoh, right. new jenkins17:35
golinuxCan you tell her where to go?17:35
fsmithredjenkins.devuan.dev17:35
fsmithredLydia_K, ^^^17:35
golinuxThanks17:37
golinuxI need food.  afk for a while.17:38
fsmithredI need to go uncover a bees nest17:38
fsmithredwhile it's cold17:38
fsmithredthey live somewhere under the leaves on the ground17:38
Lydia_KAh, yeah, can't log into that one. Should I just go through the account creation process to request one?17:39
golinuxMaybe ping LeePen.  rrq is sleeping now17:40
Lydia_KNo rush, I'm at work and stuff anyway.17:41
Lydia_KNot that I'm really ever not at work..17:41
golinuxThis is true.17:41
* Evilham knows that "never really not at work" feeling too well17:42
EvilhamLydia_K: this might be useful, I can share the terrible terrible code that produced that if you want http://tcp.st/_3ma917:42
Lydia_KLOL17:45
Lydia_KThat looks like a fun list.17:46
Evilhamit's not that long and e.g. we haven't had 389-ds ever, and from taking a quick look and having used it at some point at $work, it'd be pain to have it not be systemd17:47
Evilhamso, there are some things that can be mostly ignored17:48
Lydia_KLDAP.. integrated heavily with systemd..  but why? That kinda makes me want to rip it out all the more. But low hanging fruit first.17:50
EvilhamX-D17:50
EvilhamLydia_K: I'll see if I can prepare the list for you in the evening, have to run "soon" and my remaining hour at work has to fix 2 "critical" bugs :-D18:03
Evilhamdo ping if you need anything else18:03
Lydia_KThanks Evilham :)18:13
Evilhamphew, that was quicker than expected18:29
EvilhamLeePen: it'd be interesting to know if you managed to send and get a response re: bug reports for non-forked packages18:30
LeePenYes, just added it to the Pad for the meet tonight.18:40
LeePenDPL said probably OK, but not his decision and he recommends asking owner@bugs.debian.org and/or debian-devel list.18:41
golinuxLeePen: Lydia_K stopped by earlier and wants to helps close bugs.  Could you please give her access to new jenkins?18:54
LeePengolinux: Yes, of course. I think she will need to register an account first.18:55
LeePenI don't think she was imported from the old jenkins.18:55
golinuxLydia_K: ^^^18:56
golinuxThanks, LeePen.18:56
Lydia_KAll set, account created.20:10
LeePenLydia_K: I have given you access to all the jobs and related. Let me know if that isn't enough.20:17
Lydia_KAwesome! Thank you.20:18
Lydia_KIt's going to take me a bit to get a proper dev environment up and get back into the swing of things, so I'll let you know if I run into anything.20:19
golinuxIt's meet time.21:28
masonOh, argh. I'm tied up in trying to reproduce an issue here and I won't be able to break away from it and still hit SLA.21:30
Evilhamgolinux LeePen rrq: http://tcp.st/623b523:02

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