golinux | I need a guinea pig who is using the cinnabar theme on beowulf and has chromium installed | 00:04 |
---|---|---|
golinux | Any volunteers? | 00:05 |
yeti | I can put chromium on 2 VMs (i386/amd64) | 00:57 |
yeti | beo+xfce already installed | 00:57 |
mason | And... I'm behind on deliverables, but I'll try to address that by meeting time. | 03:16 |
Evilham | z | 10:10 |
mason | Evilham: A sleeping noise! | 15:03 |
gnu_srs | LeePen: The link to devuan.../britney please! Cannot find it. | 15:57 |
Evilham | "/britney on pkgmaster" --> https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/britney | 15:58 |
gnu_srs | Evilham: tks :) | 16:00 |
Evilham | did we have a pre-beta iso for beowulf? | 16:34 |
Evilham | fsmithred? :-D | 16:34 |
golinux | There are for the -live isos | 16:37 |
golinux | But not yet for netinstall | 16:38 |
golinux | devuan_beowulf_3.0.0-test_2020-01-15_i386_desktop-live.iso | 16:40 |
golinux | I forget where I got it | 16:40 |
* Evilham reaches to refracta's isos on its server anyway :-p | 16:45 | |
mason | rrq: The testing netboot ISO I'm trying now still gives me us.deb,devuan.org as my top pick, and pkgmaster as second pick. If we want most people on deb.devuan.org this might want to be amended. | 16:47 |
Evilham | mason: mind sharing where the ISO came from? | 16:49 |
golinux | on borta somewhere. I have that too. | 16:50 |
mason | Evilham: https://borta.rrq.id.au/ | 16:50 |
mason | took me a minute to dig it out of the logs | 16:50 |
Evilham | <3 thanks | 16:50 |
Evilham | I searched for iso and didn't find it '-.- | 16:50 |
mason | i386 only, but that's fine for testing some of the stuff I want to see | 16:50 |
Evilham | mason: mind opening a bug against the installer with critical importance about the default mirror? | 16:51 |
mason | Hm, and in fact I get base-installer: error: exiting on error base-installer/debootstrap-failed | 16:52 |
Evilham | it'd be silly to claim CC.deb.devuan.org is deprecated and have that be the default | 16:52 |
mason | Evilham: I was going to just mention it at the meeting, but I can do a bug as well or instead. | 16:52 |
mason | I'll do a bug as well, as that's better for tracking. | 16:52 |
Evilham | precisely :-) | 16:53 |
golinux | As you might have read, rrq has been occupied with other tasks | 16:53 |
Evilham | yup, bummer | 16:53 |
golinux | No kidding. My heart was racing even to imagine it | 16:54 |
Evilham | stay away from strong emotions :-D | 16:54 |
Evilham | things will be fine :-D | 16:54 |
mason | What venue? I didn't latch onto whatever news it was. | 16:54 |
mason | I hope he's okay, in any event. | 16:56 |
Evilham | yeah, everything is alright, no need to worry | 16:56 |
mason | In what venue did this come up? If it's something I have access to I'll go look again. | 16:56 |
golinux | Evilham: That was a figurative description not reality. | 16:56 |
mason | If it's not, that's fine. | 16:56 |
golinux | mason: You were present and commented on it when it happened in this very channel | 16:58 |
mason | Ah... | 16:58 |
mason | Oh, that. Alright. Yeah. | 16:59 |
golinux | :D | 16:59 |
Lydia_K | Packaging.. there needs to be more packaging work done? | 17:00 |
mason | So, funny thing - the Devuan server I finally managed to install the other day (ZFS root but legacy, not UEFI, which made it trickier) is my new backup server. | 17:01 |
golinux | Lydia_K: Welcome home! | 17:04 |
Lydia_K | Heya! | 17:05 |
golinux | Lydia_K: Packaging yes. But not removing libsystemd0 anymore | 17:05 |
Lydia_K | :( | 17:06 |
golinux | elogind makes that unnecessary | 17:07 |
mason | Removing libelogind0 at some point should be a goal, since it's just a renamed piece of systemd. Doesn't sit well with the project's goal. | 17:08 |
mason | It'd be like renaming PulseAudio to ThrobAudio and pretending you no longer had PulseAudio installed. | 17:09 |
Evilham | mason: we had this discussion some days ago, check the code and you'll see that your claim is not true :-D | 17:09 |
golinux | Yes, but until we find another way, that's the best option,. | 17:09 |
mason | No, I know you pointed out that it's a subset. | 17:09 |
Evilham | a quite small subset, which is not the same as "renamed and published" | 17:10 |
mason | And certainly not using systemd as the service manager is big. But I'd like to break free of using APIs Lennart designs. | 17:10 |
fsmithred | libsystemd0/libelogind0 is harder to get rid of than dbus | 17:10 |
Evilham | anyway, TL;DR current state of affairs: removing libsystemd0 is a PITA and there is not enough willl/personpower to do that, elogind offers libelogind0 which is a very small subset of libsystemd0 and is ABI compatible | 17:11 |
Evilham | so, the current compromise is: for beowulf libelogind0 is fine, for chimaera, we can talk about that when the time comes | 17:11 |
Evilham | which means: just removing libsystemd0 is not enough reason to fork a package on beowulf | 17:12 |
mason | Yeah, I agree that it's almost certainly too late for Beowulf. | 17:12 |
Lydia_K | Not having been part of the discussions it does sound like it's just not worth the effort right now, we need to have released products first and foremost, a few API calls are a far cry from PID1 control. | 17:12 |
mason | Lydia_K: The slippery slope worries me. | 17:12 |
Evilham | indeed <3 | 17:12 |
Lydia_K | I totally understand that mason, and I agree with you in principal, but there's also the need to actually get things out the door. | 17:13 |
Evilham | mason: then I'd suggest that as soon as beowulf is released, you start forking packages for chimaera :-D | 17:13 |
Lydia_K | Totally should be a long term goal. | 17:13 |
Evilham | until then, that kind of comments are really just a waste of bandwidth | 17:13 |
Evilham | (and I mean human bandwidth) | 17:13 |
mason | Evilham: I think a regular reminder of the aim is a useful thing, not a waste. | 17:14 |
golinux | mason: Forking and maintaining in perpetuity. | 17:14 |
Evilham | no, while it's not actionable it's noise | 17:14 |
mason | No one needs to discuss it with me, as long as you don't mind my stating it once in a while and accepting packages if/when they're offered, if they are correct. | 17:14 |
mason | Evilham: Thank you for your opinion. I disagree, which is fine. | 17:15 |
Lydia_K | Anywho.. sounds like I need to get back on the packaging train. | 17:15 |
Evilham | some testing is quite appreciated, off my memory there aren't many packages left for beowulf now | 17:16 |
Evilham | but there are some bugs that require checking and I haven't been able to | 17:16 |
Lydia_K | I should spin up a VM for dev work and get that rolling. | 17:16 |
Evilham | Lydia_K: would you like me to setup a small list of bugs that should be checked? | 17:16 |
Lydia_K | Sure :) | 17:18 |
Evilham | you still have access to devuan-packages and all that, correct? | 17:18 |
Lydia_K | uuuggghhh... I will have to check.. it's been a while.. probably? | 17:20 |
Evilham | please take a look and complain if not :-) | 17:20 |
Lydia_K | Ah! Complaining! I can do that! ;) | 17:21 |
Evilham | \o/ appropriate task assignment | 17:21 |
Lydia_K | LOL | 17:21 |
mason | Evilham: This is an odd situation. My personal goal is to put energy into a project that matches my goals, the most important of which are promoting free software diversity and opportunity and not throwing away methods that work in the name of SNS Syndrome. I'm not sure why you're putting effort into presenting that this concern is a waste of time and bandwidth. It seems counterproductive to work | 17:25 |
mason | towards lessing another volunteer's enthusiasm for the project. Harmful even. | 17:25 |
mason | It's worth your thinking about this. | 17:25 |
Evilham | I'm asking you to please bring this up again as soon as you see beowulf is out :-D | 17:26 |
Evilham | and please let it be until then, that's it | 17:26 |
mason | Alright. That's a different tone, but it's fair and I agree. | 17:27 |
Lydia_K | Well I can still login to the jenkins box, the gitlab server does not seem to be responding at the moment, at least from this network. | 17:29 |
Evilham | mason: I see we were talking past eachother, thank you for asking for clarification :-) | 17:29 |
golinux | Lydia_K: There is a new setup. You are probably pointing to the old one | 17:34 |
golinux | I am not the on to tell you where that is. LOL! | 17:34 |
fsmithred | we're still using the old gitlab | 17:34 |
golinux | Jenkins | 17:34 |
fsmithred | and Lydia_K is in the devuan-packages group | 17:34 |
golinux | not gitlab | 17:35 |
fsmithred | oh, right. new jenkins | 17:35 |
golinux | Can you tell her where to go? | 17:35 |
fsmithred | jenkins.devuan.dev | 17:35 |
fsmithred | Lydia_K, ^^^ | 17:35 |
golinux | Thanks | 17:37 |
golinux | I need food. afk for a while. | 17:38 |
fsmithred | I need to go uncover a bees nest | 17:38 |
fsmithred | while it's cold | 17:38 |
fsmithred | they live somewhere under the leaves on the ground | 17:38 |
Lydia_K | Ah, yeah, can't log into that one. Should I just go through the account creation process to request one? | 17:39 |
golinux | Maybe ping LeePen. rrq is sleeping now | 17:40 |
Lydia_K | No rush, I'm at work and stuff anyway. | 17:41 |
Lydia_K | Not that I'm really ever not at work.. | 17:41 |
golinux | This is true. | 17:41 |
* Evilham knows that "never really not at work" feeling too well | 17:42 | |
Evilham | Lydia_K: this might be useful, I can share the terrible terrible code that produced that if you want http://tcp.st/_3ma9 | 17:42 |
Lydia_K | LOL | 17:45 |
Lydia_K | That looks like a fun list. | 17:46 |
Evilham | it's not that long and e.g. we haven't had 389-ds ever, and from taking a quick look and having used it at some point at $work, it'd be pain to have it not be systemd | 17:47 |
Evilham | so, there are some things that can be mostly ignored | 17:48 |
Lydia_K | LDAP.. integrated heavily with systemd.. but why? That kinda makes me want to rip it out all the more. But low hanging fruit first. | 17:50 |
Evilham | X-D | 17:50 |
Evilham | Lydia_K: I'll see if I can prepare the list for you in the evening, have to run "soon" and my remaining hour at work has to fix 2 "critical" bugs :-D | 18:03 |
Evilham | do ping if you need anything else | 18:03 |
Lydia_K | Thanks Evilham :) | 18:13 |
Evilham | phew, that was quicker than expected | 18:29 |
Evilham | LeePen: it'd be interesting to know if you managed to send and get a response re: bug reports for non-forked packages | 18:30 |
LeePen | Yes, just added it to the Pad for the meet tonight. | 18:40 |
LeePen | DPL said probably OK, but not his decision and he recommends asking owner@bugs.debian.org and/or debian-devel list. | 18:41 |
golinux | LeePen: Lydia_K stopped by earlier and wants to helps close bugs. Could you please give her access to new jenkins? | 18:54 |
LeePen | golinux: Yes, of course. I think she will need to register an account first. | 18:55 |
LeePen | I don't think she was imported from the old jenkins. | 18:55 |
golinux | Lydia_K: ^^^ | 18:56 |
golinux | Thanks, LeePen. | 18:56 |
Lydia_K | All set, account created. | 20:10 |
LeePen | Lydia_K: I have given you access to all the jobs and related. Let me know if that isn't enough. | 20:17 |
Lydia_K | Awesome! Thank you. | 20:18 |
Lydia_K | It's going to take me a bit to get a proper dev environment up and get back into the swing of things, so I'll let you know if I run into anything. | 20:19 |
golinux | It's meet time. | 21:28 |
mason | Oh, argh. I'm tied up in trying to reproduce an issue here and I won't be able to break away from it and still hit SLA. | 21:30 |
Evilham | golinux LeePen rrq: http://tcp.st/623b5 | 23:02 |
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