libera/#devuan-dev/ Wednesday, 2020-12-30

plasma41rrq, LeePen: The TLS cert for jenkins.devuan.dev expired today.01:50
golinuxThanks.  LeePen caught that some hours ago.02:13
seabassHello everyone. I would like to send a bug report about www.devuan.org to the devuan-dev mailing list, but I found the info page a little confusing. It mentioned invitations; am I permitted to simply send my bug report to the list?19:22
fsmithredseabass, what's the bug?19:23
fsmithrednormally we have bugs go to bugs.devuan.org but there probably isn't a package for that.19:23
seabassfsmithred, thank you for responding. The issue is a non-freely licensed component; not a bug in the techinical sense but a potential legal problem.19:24
fsmithredwhat component?19:24
seabassIf you go to a non-existent page ( ie. https://www.devuan.org/page-that-doesn't-exist ), you will see an XKCD comic. It's license contradicts that of the page as a whole19:26
seabass*its license19:26
seabassUnless Devuan received a specific license from Randall Munroe himself?19:27
fsmithredthe link below the comic brings me to:19:27
fsmithredThis work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License.19:27
fsmithredThis means you're free to copy and share these comics (but not to sell them).19:27
fsmithredso I don't see the problem19:28
seabassI see that as a limitation of distribution - that contradicts the CC-BY-SA 4.0 International license of the Devuan site.19:28
seabassWhilst the CC-BY-SA 4.0 isn't completely invalidated by such a nonfree component, it might cause some problems for someone copying it down the line.19:29
fsmithredhow is it a non-free compnent when it's got a CC license?19:31
fsmithredand our license states: "19:32
fsmithred    You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an applicable exception or limitation."19:32
seabassNot all Creative Commons licenses are free;19:32
fsmithredI read that as meaning the element has its own license and that's ok.19:32
seabassnon-commercial is a restriction that wouldn't fit into the FSF definition of free at least.19:33
fsmithredFSF definition is irrelevant to CC19:33
seabassAnd yes, its use on Devuan.org is fine, but it means that somebody cannot simply copy the entire webpage under the license that it is claimed to be.19:33
seabass(note that the license link for the comic shows CC-BY-SA, which xkcd is certainly not, and which the link doesn't point to)19:34
fsmithredif they copy the page with the xkcd comic, then they are also copying a line that says what license the comic uses19:34
fsmithredso it should be changed to show the correct license19:35
seabassThere are clearly two things here; one is the incorrect license label. That could be easily fixed I'm sure. The other problem isn't so much as a liability for Devuan as it hinders redistribution...19:36
seabass... as anyone copying the website would need to check for non-free components for using it commercially.19:36
golinuxGood grief . . . It's been that way for 6 years and the sky hasn't fallen.19:36
seabassSay if someone were to want to sell a paper book of the Devuan website; it would be much easier in that case if *everything* was freely licensed.19:37
golinuxXenguy: ^^^19:37
fsmithredif someone wants to sell a paper book of the devuan website, they should have their head examined19:38
seabassHello golinux. I agree it's not the end of the world; it would just be nice if the licensing was straightforward and free.19:38
seabassfsmithred, where there's a will there's a way. There may also be a market, you just never know :)19:38
onefangWould someone selling a paper book include the 404 page?19:39
golinuxWhy would anyone ever want to create a print copy of the error message of the Devuan website.  It has no technical value.19:39
golinuxonefang: We're doing that mindmeld thing again . . .19:39
fsmithredonefang, that could replace the page that says "This page intentionally left blank."19:39
onefanglol19:40
seabassThere may be broken links within the Devuan website; that means a recursive download might include the comic.19:40
seabassIt may not be intentional inclusion of an error page, although certainly the publisher would have to be a bit sleepy to make that mistake!19:40
seabassFor instance, it is most liberating that I could copy the man pages for GNU, burn a few CDs and sell them without any fear of copyright infringement.19:41
golinuxAny technical website is ephemeral.  There is no need to create persistent copies.19:42
golinuxAnyone who think there is should go sit in a corner19:43
golinuxand to the back of the class19:44
seabassRegardless of the motives for copying, I think it would be pretty helpful for the community as a whole to have consistant licensing, don't you agree?19:47
XenguyThanks for your insights seabass (it's clear that I would not have enjoyed a career as a copyright lawyer ; -)19:53
seabassYou're welcome, Xenguy. I am most interested in Devuan as a project; granted, not everyone likes untangling licenses, but for me I find it's a way to try and help the community! :)19:56
XenguyMy personal allergies to copyright law are one reason your efforts are appreciated  : -)19:58
seabasshaha! I'm glad to be of some help here. True, copyright law can be a pain, but then again it does provide free software with some protections as well... maybe something of a double-edged sword.20:00
XenguyLooking at this page then:  https://www.devuan.org/404.html20:01
Xenguyseabass: If it's not duplicating your efforts above, are you able to summarize the basic options available to avoid 'license entanglement'?20:02
seabassWill do. Please give me a second20:03
fsmithredeasiest solution would be to remove the image20:03
Xenguyseabass: Thanks in advance.20:03
Xenguyfsmithred: Option #1 then.  But I must say, I think that comic is pretty funny 8 -D20:04
fsmithredyeah, I like it, too20:04
seabassxkcd certainly brings smiles to faces :)20:05
seabassI must go now. But here are the options, Xenguy:20:09
seabassAs I see it, there are three options available:20:10
seabass- Adjust the license for the 404 page to match CC-BY-NC and correct the label for the comic.20:11
seabass- Contact Randall Munroe asking for this specific comic to be licensed to Devuan (and thus any further recipients) under the CC-BY-SA 4.0 International license and label it as such.20:11
seabass- Replace or otherwise remove the comic from the site.20:11
seabassThere we go! I hope to chat later, bye for now :)20:11
XenguyBack...20:20
XenguyThanks for that seabass20:20
bgstack15Devuan meet tomorrow, December 31, at 20:30 UTC. Pad is here: https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/2/code/edit/Z-s0f6xAX1InONn07LALSBFQ/21:03
bgstack15Take note! This is the last Devuan meeting of the year.21:03
seabassXenguy, I can't stay now. Since I'm not always connected to IRC, if you'd like to discuss this further please email me.22:45
seabassI have left a message with MemoServ, Xenguy, with my email address :)22:47

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!