plasma41 | rrq, LeePen: The TLS cert for jenkins.devuan.dev expired today. | 01:50 |
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golinux | Thanks. LeePen caught that some hours ago. | 02:13 |
seabass | Hello everyone. I would like to send a bug report about www.devuan.org to the devuan-dev mailing list, but I found the info page a little confusing. It mentioned invitations; am I permitted to simply send my bug report to the list? | 19:22 |
fsmithred | seabass, what's the bug? | 19:23 |
fsmithred | normally we have bugs go to bugs.devuan.org but there probably isn't a package for that. | 19:23 |
seabass | fsmithred, thank you for responding. The issue is a non-freely licensed component; not a bug in the techinical sense but a potential legal problem. | 19:24 |
fsmithred | what component? | 19:24 |
seabass | If you go to a non-existent page ( ie. https://www.devuan.org/page-that-doesn't-exist ), you will see an XKCD comic. It's license contradicts that of the page as a whole | 19:26 |
seabass | *its license | 19:26 |
seabass | Unless Devuan received a specific license from Randall Munroe himself? | 19:27 |
fsmithred | the link below the comic brings me to: | 19:27 |
fsmithred | This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License. | 19:27 |
fsmithred | This means you're free to copy and share these comics (but not to sell them). | 19:27 |
fsmithred | so I don't see the problem | 19:28 |
seabass | I see that as a limitation of distribution - that contradicts the CC-BY-SA 4.0 International license of the Devuan site. | 19:28 |
seabass | Whilst the CC-BY-SA 4.0 isn't completely invalidated by such a nonfree component, it might cause some problems for someone copying it down the line. | 19:29 |
fsmithred | how is it a non-free compnent when it's got a CC license? | 19:31 |
fsmithred | and our license states: " | 19:32 |
fsmithred | You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an applicable exception or limitation." | 19:32 |
seabass | Not all Creative Commons licenses are free; | 19:32 |
fsmithred | I read that as meaning the element has its own license and that's ok. | 19:32 |
seabass | non-commercial is a restriction that wouldn't fit into the FSF definition of free at least. | 19:33 |
fsmithred | FSF definition is irrelevant to CC | 19:33 |
seabass | And yes, its use on Devuan.org is fine, but it means that somebody cannot simply copy the entire webpage under the license that it is claimed to be. | 19:33 |
seabass | (note that the license link for the comic shows CC-BY-SA, which xkcd is certainly not, and which the link doesn't point to) | 19:34 |
fsmithred | if they copy the page with the xkcd comic, then they are also copying a line that says what license the comic uses | 19:34 |
fsmithred | so it should be changed to show the correct license | 19:35 |
seabass | There are clearly two things here; one is the incorrect license label. That could be easily fixed I'm sure. The other problem isn't so much as a liability for Devuan as it hinders redistribution... | 19:36 |
seabass | ... as anyone copying the website would need to check for non-free components for using it commercially. | 19:36 |
golinux | Good grief . . . It's been that way for 6 years and the sky hasn't fallen. | 19:36 |
seabass | Say if someone were to want to sell a paper book of the Devuan website; it would be much easier in that case if *everything* was freely licensed. | 19:37 |
golinux | Xenguy: ^^^ | 19:37 |
fsmithred | if someone wants to sell a paper book of the devuan website, they should have their head examined | 19:38 |
seabass | Hello golinux. I agree it's not the end of the world; it would just be nice if the licensing was straightforward and free. | 19:38 |
seabass | fsmithred, where there's a will there's a way. There may also be a market, you just never know :) | 19:38 |
onefang | Would someone selling a paper book include the 404 page? | 19:39 |
golinux | Why would anyone ever want to create a print copy of the error message of the Devuan website. It has no technical value. | 19:39 |
golinux | onefang: We're doing that mindmeld thing again . . . | 19:39 |
fsmithred | onefang, that could replace the page that says "This page intentionally left blank." | 19:39 |
onefang | lol | 19:40 |
seabass | There may be broken links within the Devuan website; that means a recursive download might include the comic. | 19:40 |
seabass | It may not be intentional inclusion of an error page, although certainly the publisher would have to be a bit sleepy to make that mistake! | 19:40 |
seabass | For instance, it is most liberating that I could copy the man pages for GNU, burn a few CDs and sell them without any fear of copyright infringement. | 19:41 |
golinux | Any technical website is ephemeral. There is no need to create persistent copies. | 19:42 |
golinux | Anyone who think there is should go sit in a corner | 19:43 |
golinux | and to the back of the class | 19:44 |
seabass | Regardless of the motives for copying, I think it would be pretty helpful for the community as a whole to have consistant licensing, don't you agree? | 19:47 |
Xenguy | Thanks for your insights seabass (it's clear that I would not have enjoyed a career as a copyright lawyer ; -) | 19:53 |
seabass | You're welcome, Xenguy. I am most interested in Devuan as a project; granted, not everyone likes untangling licenses, but for me I find it's a way to try and help the community! :) | 19:56 |
Xenguy | My personal allergies to copyright law are one reason your efforts are appreciated : -) | 19:58 |
seabass | haha! I'm glad to be of some help here. True, copyright law can be a pain, but then again it does provide free software with some protections as well... maybe something of a double-edged sword. | 20:00 |
Xenguy | Looking at this page then: https://www.devuan.org/404.html | 20:01 |
Xenguy | seabass: If it's not duplicating your efforts above, are you able to summarize the basic options available to avoid 'license entanglement'? | 20:02 |
seabass | Will do. Please give me a second | 20:03 |
fsmithred | easiest solution would be to remove the image | 20:03 |
Xenguy | seabass: Thanks in advance. | 20:03 |
Xenguy | fsmithred: Option #1 then. But I must say, I think that comic is pretty funny 8 -D | 20:04 |
fsmithred | yeah, I like it, too | 20:04 |
seabass | xkcd certainly brings smiles to faces :) | 20:05 |
seabass | I must go now. But here are the options, Xenguy: | 20:09 |
seabass | As I see it, there are three options available: | 20:10 |
seabass | - Adjust the license for the 404 page to match CC-BY-NC and correct the label for the comic. | 20:11 |
seabass | - Contact Randall Munroe asking for this specific comic to be licensed to Devuan (and thus any further recipients) under the CC-BY-SA 4.0 International license and label it as such. | 20:11 |
seabass | - Replace or otherwise remove the comic from the site. | 20:11 |
seabass | There we go! I hope to chat later, bye for now :) | 20:11 |
Xenguy | Back... | 20:20 |
Xenguy | Thanks for that seabass | 20:20 |
bgstack15 | Devuan meet tomorrow, December 31, at 20:30 UTC. Pad is here: https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/2/code/edit/Z-s0f6xAX1InONn07LALSBFQ/ | 21:03 |
bgstack15 | Take note! This is the last Devuan meeting of the year. | 21:03 |
seabass | Xenguy, I can't stay now. Since I'm not always connected to IRC, if you'd like to discuss this further please email me. | 22:45 |
seabass | I have left a message with MemoServ, Xenguy, with my email address :) | 22:47 |
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