libera/#devuan-dev/ Tuesday, 2021-07-20

masonIn trying to understand the background of the UsrMerge debacle, I found the best description yet: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=91489709:16
masonThe framing there makes it seem like there's very little choice for a downstream/derivative.09:16
masonWhich is to say, it'd take enormous work to undo it. It was made default rather than opt-in because the onus of enormous work was daunting for Debian themselves.09:17
masonAnyway, that's all. I don't have further input at present and I'm about to fall asleep at my keyboard.09:19
adam_free2airwhich meta package that installs the default gui that comes on the iso images (asking for a raspberry pi friend running a minimal chimaera image)?10:40
rrqyou mean task-xfce-desktop ?10:41
adam_free2airah. thanks :)10:42
adam_free2airqq10:42
gnu_srsmason: It is really odd that the project and TC pushes the solution for UsrMerge, merged-/usr-via-aliased-dirs,12:18
gnu_srsover the head of the dpkg package develper and maintainer Guillem :(12:18
bgstack15gnu_srs: maybe it's a conspiracy? Who benefits from having every debian install have a merged /usr?13:38
adam_free2airRaspberry Pi 0,1,3 and 4 (2 coming soon) alpha nightly builds of Chimaera are available for feedback here https://ci.free2air.net/job/Images/job/rpi-img-builder/ before moving to https://arm-files.devuan.org13:51
LeePensrc:tasksel 3.68+devuan3 now in ceres.14:52
LeePenReverts the change of default audio system from pulseaudio to ALSA for all new installs.14:53
LeePenAccessibility speech-dispatcher config change is now handled through a separate task-speech-accessibility package.14:54
golinuxHeads up!  There is currently a pogrom in progress at FDN to make it a kinder, gentler place.16:26
golinuxIt started here: https://groups.google.com/g/linux.debian.project/c/KCqy1DodJAE16:28
golinux"Upper management" is now firmly in charge and wielding "justice" with a heavy hand.  Any hint of criticism or sarcasm or dissent will result in a warning.16:32
golinuxI also expect "cleansing" of historical posts so might be a good idea to wget the entire thing before it has been erased from history.16:33
golinuxThe community cannot lose Dasein's "Combatting Revisionist History" and other gems.16:34
golinuxThis was foreshadowed about a decade ago when "upper management" created a "Beginners" forum and there was the "Free cynwulf" campaign when he was banned for a month in the fallout16:37
golinuxIt is interesting that this "cleansing" is happening at exactly the same time as UsrMerge is being initiated.16:39
golinuxRather chilling . . .16:40
masongnu_srs: The thing about the bug I linked is that evidently this has been a point of contention for several years now, and the most compelling argument for the UsrMerge seems pretty thin to me. But either way, this will mean forcing non-compliant packages into line. It's essentially use of force to push someone's arbitrary technical whim.20:35
masongnu_srs: What might matter most to Devuan is whether any packages break when all the build machines are UsrMerged. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=914897#139 describes the issue20:37
masongnu_srs: And that reasoning in that comment is why Debian won't support non-UsrMerged systems any more.20:38
masonSo, "LOL let's all change now" and what was once optional is now mandatory, because now if folks want they can have an immutable /usr more easily, although no one actually does this.20:39
golinuxmason: If you have not read my comments above, please do so now.  The timing is quite telling of a bigger agenda IMO.20:54
masongolinux: I read them. They were also brought up just now in a ... I guess I'd call it a "conversation" with the main Debian backer of the project.20:56
golinuxYea, something is coming down the tubes . . .20:57
golinuxYeah,20:58
masongolinux: FWIW, here's the quote from the fellow driving this change: 14:49 < ansgar> mason: The UsrMerge plan is ordered by upper management (i.e., IBM and George Soros himself, together with the "cleansing" of forums.d.n :-)21:02
masonHe clearly doesn't know me and was trying to cause trouble, but people are like that. My impression is that he lost status with his peers for his efforts, but that won't matter to the UsrMerge thing.21:03
masonAnyway, our main sump pump burned out from all the rain, so I've got to go get a replacement if I can. The old one far outlived expectations and I'm grateful for its service.21:04
golinuxHappy tinkering21:04
masonThanks. Worst case is we'll need to enlarge the sump pit which'll mean someone with a jackhammer in the cellar, but we'll see.21:05
masonbbiab21:05
xrogaanfsmithred: Dunno if you glossed over my answer and didn't see it. lftp can handle torrent files, it's a cli software.21:27
fsmithredxrogaan, thanks for the reminder. I only remembered transmission-cli (the one I alreaedy knew.)21:27
fsmithredis it easy to use compared to any others?21:28
xrogaanit's interactive.21:28
xrogaanopen a terminal, type lftp. It'll give you a command line for lftp. In there you can type `help torrent`.21:29
xrogaanIt's straightforward enough, but in a style of its own I guess.21:30
bgstack15I forget; did the UsrMerge come up in the last Devuan meet? Maybe we should bring it up as a topic for this next one, to see if we should make that part of the Devuan policy. I'm not qualified to provide administration of such a technical task, but I might be able to be a low-level lackey in the process.23:36
golinuxIt has really just blossomed in the last few days.23:38
golinuxbgstack15: <stevelitt> See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00144.html and https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00166.html23:40

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