fugitive | o/ | 01:39 |
---|---|---|
RealUnix28200 | Hello | 01:40 |
fugitive | i have one question.. how to install nvidia drivers on ascii ? :) those worked on jessie, but when i try installing, it complains about dependdencies, all nvidia-* | 01:40 |
RealUnix28200 | cc | 01:40 |
fugitive | hi | 01:40 |
gnarface | fugitive: did your emember to enable non-free and contrib in your sources.list, then run `apt-get update`? | 01:46 |
fugitive | hm, seems not.. i thought it is issue in my sources file.. let me see | 01:48 |
fugitive | contrib was there, guess i missed non-free | 01:49 |
gnarface | personally i disable them both again after adding the nvidia drivers | 01:50 |
gnarface | you don't really want anything from there surprise-updating on you | 01:50 |
terryc | Q: how "safe" is it to upgrade Debian-Stretch to Dev-uan-Jessie by just doing the /etc/apt/sources.list changes and the update/upgrade/dis-upgrade? | 01:50 |
gnarface | terryc: it'll probably work. your mileage may vary | 01:51 |
gnarface | terryc: (depending on what you had installed, much of it may need to be uninstalled first) | 01:52 |
golinux | Have a look here: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ | 01:52 |
fugitive | seems it works. will it work after - will see. :) thanks gnarface | 01:52 |
gnarface | np | 01:52 |
fsmithred | go from stretch to ascii, not jessie | 01:53 |
gnarface | for nvidia drivers, if you install "nvidia-driver" and "libgl1-nvidia-glx" then most of the rest of what you need should get dragged in automatically | 01:53 |
fugitive | hm, i used 340 legacy, I believe i used those before, but yh, it pulled all of pkgs | 01:54 |
fugitive | ok, brb, might be last time seeing X :D | 01:57 |
fugitive | this passed well. thanks again gnarface ;-) | 02:05 |
fugitive | bumbleebe works | 02:05 |
bozonius | I'm fairly sure at this point that the firmware drivers (non-free) for my NIC made a difference | 02:08 |
bozonius | fairly sure, not 100% | 02:08 |
bozonius | the easiest thing was adding them to the install thumb drive before beginning the install. stick them in /firmware off the root directory (not in a subdir of /firmware, I found out) | 02:09 |
bozonius | that way, the driver is found automatically and the install goes smoothly | 02:09 |
bozonius | I can ping forever in that installation. In the former one, where I had a problem of some kind, it will ping google a few dozen times then fail | 02:10 |
gnarface | fugitive: glad to hear it | 02:10 |
bozonius | I then tried installing the firmware into the original installation, but even after a reboot, it still fails after a few dozen pings | 02:11 |
bozonius | so it may or may not be the firmware | 02:11 |
gnarface | bozonius: really weird, hard to say what's going on. that hypothesis makes complete sense except doesn't really explain the mystery DHCP requests - but i guess that still theoretically could be the hardware's fault. is it some sort of server motherboard with a IPMI? | 02:11 |
bozonius | 760GM-P23 (msi board) | 02:12 |
bozonius | it's a rtl 8111 NIC | 02:12 |
filip | hi is cpu fan temperature around 45-60 normal :/ | 02:12 |
gnarface | bozonius: note that the firmware may need to be in the initrd.img to work, which means if the firmware package doesn't regenerate it, you may need to run `update-initramfs -u` again manually | 02:12 |
bozonius | I went to Realtek's support site, but nothing that seems relevant | 02:12 |
bozonius | ah, yes! | 02:13 |
bozonius | I'll try that | 02:13 |
bozonius | I really want to know | 02:13 |
bozonius | bbs | 02:13 |
bozonius | oh... what is the command again? (sorry) | 02:13 |
gnarface | filip: it depends on the hardware | 02:13 |
filip | now it's 56 when i turned hexchat on | 02:13 |
gnarface | bozonius: `update-initramfs -u` to just update the running one. `update-initramfs -u -k all` for all installed | 02:13 |
filip | iv had it 30 before maybe its because its hot in my room i use laptop | 02:13 |
bozonius | 60C sounds about right 110F I think | 02:14 |
filip | ok | 02:14 |
bozonius | is it an AMD or Intel? | 02:14 |
filip | its so boiling hot in england lol the heat is tremendeous | 02:14 |
filip | intel | 02:14 |
gnarface | that might be on the high side for a new intel chip | 02:14 |
bozonius | you might check Intel's support site and see what the specs are for your model of CPU | 02:14 |
gnarface | but it's right in the normal range for older AMD | 02:14 |
filip | fking intel | 02:14 |
bozonius | no, just how they are designed | 02:15 |
bozonius | over 600 successful pings in the reinstallation ascii partition | 02:15 |
bozonius | amazing... | 02:15 |
gnarface | filip: oh, under load that's still fine. i meant it sounded a bit high for idling | 02:15 |
bozonius | ok, gnarface, thnks, bbs | 02:15 |
filip | its a bit more than week ago | 02:16 |
filip | i even use cooling pad with one fan lol | 02:16 |
filip | utbut its really hot in my room though so maybe thats the reason :< | 02:16 |
gnarface | well do the internal fans come on normally? | 02:16 |
gnarface | or have they stopped spinning up? | 02:16 |
filip | no no they spin up alright ;p | 02:16 |
gnarface | using opengl programs can really heat up integrated video on those things | 02:17 |
gnarface | firefox uses opengl by default now | 02:17 |
gnarface | so do several compositing window managers | 02:17 |
filip | well the temperature is worrying i quite worry about it maybe i shouldnt use my laptop when its that hot im even scared to plug the battery cable in | 02:17 |
gnarface | if it doesn't get much higher than 60 under load i wouldn't worry | 02:18 |
gnarface | but there are of course things you can do to ruin a laptop | 02:18 |
gnarface | make sure it's operating with adequate ventilation | 02:18 |
gnarface | don't like, sit it on a blanket | 02:18 |
gnarface | don't block the exhaust ports with your legs | 02:18 |
gnarface | etc | 02:18 |
filip | yeah i did it before put on the blanket on a bed hahah now its on cooling pad | 02:18 |
bozonius | modern CPUs should shut themselves down automatically if they reach a critical temp | 02:19 |
gnarface | if it's old you could have a dust clog problem on the intakes | 02:19 |
filip | yeah... | 02:19 |
bozonius | so you don't have to worry they will burn out the cpu | 02:19 |
filip | when i was playing diablo 3 on devuan i had temperatures at like 85 celsius degrees which was crazy | 02:19 |
gnarface | if you see a pattern of gradually rising temperatures at idle over the course of weeks that's a good sign of clogged fans | 02:19 |
filip | yeah i have pressure air in the garage i think i could use it... | 02:20 |
gnarface | but those things have operating temperature ranges that are well documented even in consumer-grade manuals | 02:20 |
gnarface | it's just that nobody pays attention to those pages of the manual | 02:20 |
gnarface | but if it says that you can safely operate the computer between 60-80F, and you're in a room that's 105F, yea, you're gonna overheat it | 02:20 |
gnarface | i think they usually say like 60-86F or something like that | 02:21 |
filip | shit, ok thanks :> | 02:21 |
gnarface | you can usually push it to +90F ambient room temperature before you start seeing stuff act up under load | 02:21 |
gnarface | after that... shut down the computers | 02:21 |
bozonius | initramfs-tools configuration sets RESUME=UUID=blah-de-blah but no matching swap is available | 02:21 |
gnarface | or buy a proper AC unit | 02:21 |
bozonius | ignore? | 02:21 |
gnarface | oh | 02:22 |
bozonius | or is this potentially serious? | 02:22 |
gnarface | bozonius: eh, only serious in the sense that that value being wrong will break hibernate for you | 02:22 |
bozonius | I don't care about hibernate. But is there a way to fix that easily? | 02:22 |
bozonius | is that in grub.cfg? | 02:22 |
gnarface | it's in something | 02:22 |
gnarface | either grub or initramfs i think | 02:23 |
bozonius | ah! of course | 02:23 |
gnarface | try this: `grep -rni 'resume' /etc/initramfs-tools/` | 02:23 |
filip | ac unit for laptop, if i had pc i made i wouldnt have issues with overheating i would use the best coolers ever ;D | 02:23 |
gnarface | i've had it happen before where something hardcoded it to some UUID that then got later changed | 02:23 |
filip | having PC with some amazing cooling inside it is my dream | 02:24 |
gnarface | filip: you do have acpid installed, right? | 02:24 |
filip | nah i never installed anything like that | 02:24 |
gnarface | filip: check maybe it's installed: dpkg -l |grep acpi | 02:24 |
filip | i just checked on synaptic and it isnt | 02:25 |
gnarface | filip: if it's not, that may explain the high idle temperatures too; you need that for cpu to go into powersaving mode | 02:25 |
filip | this program, yeah i was looking for any program that i could use to manage cpu | 02:25 |
gnarface | filip: in windows by default the computer will down clock the cores when you're not under load. this is the reason newer intel chips run so cool by default | 02:25 |
gnarface | filip: in linux, depending on your settings, that may not happen | 02:25 |
filip | so should i download it then | 02:26 |
filip | is it like cpu power manager | 02:26 |
gnarface | filip: install acpid first. you may need a couple other things too. | 02:26 |
filip | ok im on it | 02:26 |
gnarface | bozonius: i remember it was set somewhere in /etc. you don't have to set it to the right thing, you can probably just comment it out so it will default to your only swap partition | 02:26 |
filip | ok i have i | 02:27 |
gnarface | bozonius: the problem i ran into is somehow sometimes it gets hardcoded, then something will reformat the swap partition, which changes the UUID so initramfs-tools's config setting is no longer valid, and then is now pointing to a UUID it can't find | 02:27 |
gnarface | filip: what does this command return? `cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor` | 02:28 |
bozonius | did the initramfs rebuild but still it is going bad | 02:28 |
bozonius | I'd love to know why ... | 02:29 |
gnarface | bozonius: but did you find the invalid UUID setting in /etc? | 02:29 |
bozonius | not yet | 02:29 |
bozonius | looking... | 02:29 |
filip | powersave | 02:29 |
gnarface | bozonius: what did this command return? `grep -rni 'resume' /etc/initramfs-tools/` | 02:29 |
gnarface | filip: that's the right setting. wait 60 seconds then see if the cpu is cooling down | 02:30 |
bozonius | doh | 02:30 |
bozonius | I'll bet it is set in the new installation... I re-used the same swap partition! So it prob got a new uuid, and you know the rest | 02:30 |
gnarface | filip: (it might help to close firefox and any other multimedia) | 02:31 |
bozonius | I'm booting off of the new install's grub config, not the old one | 02:31 |
gnarface | bozonius: there are UUID-named symlinks pointing to their corresponding partitions in /dev/disk/by-uuid/ | 02:31 |
gnarface | bozonius: you can look in there to get the correct value for your swap partition | 02:32 |
bozonius | blkid works also | 02:32 |
filip | its even worse 70 celsius its about 150 fahrenheit | 02:32 |
bozonius | but I really think they are in the new partition | 02:32 |
filip | omg its the room its so hot | 02:32 |
gnarface | filip: what's your ambient room temperature? do you have an external thermometer? | 02:32 |
filip | its fking boiling hot id say about 25-35 celsius about 80 fahrenheit im boiling here omg fucking heat wheres rain | 02:33 |
filip | anyways ill see when its get colder | 02:33 |
filip | england is turning into desert | 02:33 |
gnarface | 35C is 95F actually | 02:34 |
filip | yeah | 02:34 |
gnarface | that's definitely above data center temperatures | 02:34 |
filip | yeah iv got big window and sunlight coming straight to my room | 02:34 |
gnarface | i can't say for sure if it's the only problem, but it's a problem | 02:34 |
filip | yeah it means id haave to use my laptop in another room or just not use it till it gets colder | 02:34 |
filip | it should be just 30 celsius the pc not two times more its worrying but well ill come back in few days with it and see if something has changed | 02:36 |
filip | thanks for now ;) | 02:36 |
gnarface | filip: there could be other things wrong but it's hard to say. keep an eye on it. | 02:37 |
filip | yeah, thanx ;) | 02:37 |
gnarface | filip: there should be a list of available speeds in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies, you can make sure that 'powersave' mode is letting you fall to the lowest one at idle, then at least you'll know cpu reclocking is actually working | 02:38 |
bozonius | looked at the load? | 02:38 |
gnarface | filip: yea, you can just run top to see if anything is chewing up horsepower too | 02:38 |
bozonius | if a core is pegged at 100% that is a telltale sign | 02:39 |
bozonius | (I've had that happen to me and the fans start whirring up loud) | 02:39 |
bozonius | (sounds like a jet taking off) | 02:39 |
bozonius | guess what, I've had wireshark running throughout these tests! I see clusters of DHCP requests, then nothing, then again, then nothing... | 02:41 |
bozonius | that firmware package seems the culprit | 02:41 |
gnarface | can you get a MAC address from those DHCP requests bozonius? | 02:42 |
bozonius | and, if so, it might be good to advise people seeking help here and at the forum that they may have some serious problems with networking (even though the current advisory seems to suggest only minor functionality is lost) | 02:42 |
bozonius | yes, same as before: the test box | 02:42 |
bozonius | (I almost have the last 6 nibbles memorized) | 02:43 |
filip | okay i had some java game running and now highest cpu usage is xorg is only 3% | 02:44 |
bozonius | filip: "Had?" we want to know while "have" game running! | 02:44 |
filip | yeah with game is was about 70 degrees now its gone down to 47 its crazy lol its old school game and why does it takes so much temperature | 02:44 |
filip | it suddenly colder in the room now crazy lol | 02:45 |
bozonius | more cycles, more work | 02:45 |
bozonius | AND | 02:45 |
filip | but its old game not some diablo 3 lol | 02:45 |
bozonius | it is hitting your GPU more | 02:45 |
bozonius | if it doesn't have a GPU, then that work is spent on your main CPU cores | 02:45 |
filip | yeah well i have fking optimus gp java was taking 97% of my cpu | 02:45 |
bozonius | tht will do it, yes | 02:46 |
filip | now the temperature is down to 43 celsius from 70 crazy i read on internet it could be gpu drivers | 02:46 |
bozonius | how long were you playing for? | 02:46 |
bozonius | ok, we might have something | 02:46 |
filip | 30 minutes i just came back from town turned the game on and the cpu temperature just goes up all the time | 02:46 |
bozonius | you played for 30 minutes? | 02:46 |
filip | i wonder whats xorg it likes my memory, yeah about 30 minutes yeah | 02:47 |
bozonius | you will feel very differently come winter... I hear England gets cold too | 02:47 |
bozonius | how much memory total? | 02:47 |
filip | not really lol its getting worse desert lol | 02:47 |
filip | i only have 4gb i paid 600 dollars for 4gb ddr4 ram and optimus gpu with intel hd 500 and nvidia geforce 940mx fking hell that sounds like a perfect linux laptop -.- | 02:48 |
bozonius | when you are playing, is your system swapping?\ | 02:48 |
filip | what do u mean by swapping? | 02:48 |
bozonius | total 4GB? | 02:48 |
bozonius | or 8GB? | 02:48 |
filip | ye ;/ total 4gb ;/ | 02:48 |
bozonius | having a little trouble following | 02:48 |
bozonius | ok | 02:48 |
filip | ill get more tho | 02:49 |
bozonius | when your game is playing how much total memory is being used? | 02:49 |
filip | i can upgrade it to 8gb | 02:49 |
filip | lemme have a look but temperature is gone down to 38 celsius now so it is java app | 02:49 |
bozonius | if you are running out of memory, then your system will swap to disk. If it does, that will add work to the CPU (and slow you down a bit too) | 02:49 |
bozonius | sure | 02:49 |
bozonius | htop will show you how much memory your total system is using and how much is being swapped | 02:50 |
filip | its crazy this game run on ubuntu on pc for 20 dollars its now 50% cpu and 8% memory | 02:50 |
filip | i played this game on ubuntu pc for 20 dollars before and didnt have any problems XD | 02:50 |
bozonius | I know the feeling, believe me... | 02:50 |
filip | cpu temp was just 240% now and 100% | 02:51 |
bozonius | boy oh boy do I feel that | 02:51 |
bozonius | cpu temp is 240% ??? | 02:51 |
bozonius | not likely | 02:51 |
filip | yeah top command showed it lol | 02:51 |
bozonius | maybe you mean cpu usage? | 02:51 |
filip | i think its this optimus bollocks this app runs on nvidia integrated now | 02:51 |
bozonius | cpu temp is not measured in percentage | 02:51 |
filip | yeah cpu usage | 02:51 |
bozonius | ok | 02:51 |
bozonius | it matters, it matters... | 02:52 |
bozonius | you are running devuan ascii? | 02:52 |
filip | maybe i should download linux-firmware and bumblebee and run the app from optirun | 02:52 |
bozonius | not famliar with bumblebee or optirun, sorry. Ask gnarface about those | 02:52 |
filip | im a bit familiar, optirun would run the app from geforce but geforce is performance card not saving power one | 02:53 |
bozonius | definitely install firmware if it is suggested | 02:53 |
filip | so it doesnt make any sense | 02:53 |
bozonius | might still be worth a try, if it might take load off the cpu | 02:53 |
filip | well at first i was blaming OS i had similar issue on fedora now on devuan so i thought its the OS problem not me but now i can see its the java app my temp started to go higher again | 02:53 |
bozonius | OTOH, graphics cards get hot also | 02:53 |
filip | yeah the core temp is now 50 degrees | 02:54 |
bozonius | 50C is not too bad I think | 02:54 |
bozonius | what is the CPU model? | 02:54 |
filip | i5-7200 7th the thing is the temperature is going higher and higher now it will be 70 again from 30 | 02:55 |
filip | so its the java app its weird anyways ill sort it out maybe xD | 02:55 |
bozonius | apparently, your processor maxes out around 100C | 02:58 |
bozonius | you will pay less for heating this winter | 02:59 |
gnarface | filip: there's a lot of things that could be wrong in the java program to cause it. if you can get it running on the geforce card that should lower the CPU temperature if it's OpenGL load that's causing the heat-up. that might just move the heat to elsewhere in the system though too. | 02:59 |
filip | its weird cuz this game runs on intel pentium 2 | 02:59 |
gnarface | filip: it's also possible that if you enable vsync in the game, it'll massively lower the CPU load | 02:59 |
bozonius | maybe a desktop would work better... | 02:59 |
bozonius | even an old one | 03:00 |
gnarface | sometimes with old games like that the problem is that they run TOO fast | 03:00 |
gnarface | no frame limiters in place, so without vsync it's just like an open throttle on your CPU | 03:00 |
bozonius | ah, true | 03:00 |
bozonius | what about running it in something like qemu or virtualbox? | 03:00 |
bozonius | I think there may be options to control stuff like vsync and the like | 03:00 |
gnarface | i have that problem with some newer games in wine, too. Starcraft2 and World of Warcraft's splash screens cause runaway GPU temperature increases | 03:01 |
bozonius | ooooh | 03:01 |
bozonius | not good | 03:01 |
bozonius | I don't play games on the pc | 03:01 |
bozonius | though maybe I should | 03:01 |
gnarface | bozonius: it shouldn't be necessary for him to run it in qemu just to get vsync working. there should be an environment variable he can set. | 03:01 |
filip | goddamn windows games what they had to be so good and addictive fuck | 03:01 |
filip | this is old school runescape and it doesnt even has vsync its game based on engine from 2007 | 03:02 |
filip | i forgot i can run it from mozilla i run it now and my temperatures seem to be stable so that was the app | 03:02 |
filip | its some app that some guy did for linux so it can run runescape | 03:02 |
filip | crazy!! :D | 03:02 |
gnarface | filip: you should be able to force it with your video drivers or maybe even your window manager or compositor settings. (there's also one in nvidia-settings but that'll only work for the nvidia gpu) | 03:02 |
filip | yeah the temperatures are just fine now when i run it from browser | 03:02 |
filip | thanks!! | 03:02 |
gnarface | oh, yea firefox is probably vsyncing in opengl mode by default | 03:03 |
bozonius | uh... what's this "driconf?" | 03:03 |
bozonius | https://subsetgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2009 | 03:03 |
bozonius | (my Uncle Google sent me this) | 03:03 |
bozonius | I have no idea if that is relevant or useful | 03:03 |
filip | so u saying that if app cant vsync in opengl mode then it just causes trouble? | 03:04 |
bozonius | read the link, filip. See if that sounds like it might help | 03:04 |
gnarface | filip: ironically, only if it's really lightweight and runs real fast. like an old game. | 03:05 |
filip | ok cheers yeah the temperature is on 40 celsius now and its stable on the browser the app was the issue | 03:05 |
filip | yeah it is really lightweigh actually and it is old game ;P | 03:05 |
gnarface | filip: if there's no vsync and no frame limiter and the game can render at like 600FPS you can see heating rise in proportion to that | 03:05 |
bozonius | gnarface filip: did you look at driconf? | 03:06 |
filip | yeah okay i entered your link bozonius thanks gonna have a look | 03:06 |
bozonius | ok | 03:06 |
bozonius | good | 03:06 |
gnarface | bozonius: i don't know anything about it. since he has optimus hardware i expect it will work on his integrated GPU but not on the Nvidia one | 03:06 |
filip | its fine i dont need nvidia one for thsi game anyway i dont even need this nvidia card id change it for more ram memory if i could | 03:07 |
gnarface | both drivers should obey their environment variables for this though, regardless of the program being run | 03:08 |
bozonius | close to 2000 pings on my testbox | 03:08 |
bozonius | no problems | 03:08 |
gnarface | for the onboard intel video the environment variable is vblank_mode=0 and for the nvidia proprietary it is __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 | 03:08 |
gnarface | actually the environment variable is "vblank_mode=0" for all the drivers using mesa | 03:09 |
gnarface | nvidia nonsensically does their own thing as usual | 03:09 |
filip | BRB | 03:09 |
* bozonius watches the rest of this convo flying way over his head | 03:09 | |
bozonius | so... something went waaaaay wrong during the first install of ascii on my testbox | 03:10 |
bozonius | huh | 03:10 |
bozonius | but what, I still don't know | 03:10 |
filip | okay i installed this direct rendering preferences xD | 03:10 |
bozonius | gnarface: I plan on eventually having a number of bootable partitions on the test box, and they will chage from time to time | 03:12 |
bozonius | I'm wondering if there might be something else besides grub that would work as well, and automatically find and configure whatever bootable partitions it can find? | 03:12 |
bozonius | like boot manager, or the like | 03:13 |
Vall | Hello everyone. I'm trying to use `apt-add-repository` (added via apt-get from pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main) and it aborts with a Python traceback, of which the relevant part seems to be: | 03:16 |
Vall | aptsources.distro.NoDistroTemplateException: Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/ascii | 03:16 |
gnarface | bozonius: you can try lilo. i still like it, but it's considerably less automatic than grub. | 03:17 |
Vall | ie, seems the program doesn't grok Devuan?! | 03:17 |
bozonius | gnarface: I like you. I always liked lilo. Even grub 1. Not so crazy about grub 2. | 03:17 |
bozonius | any thoughts on elilo? | 03:17 |
gnarface | i don't think i ever tried it | 03:18 |
gnarface | Vall: it wouldn't be the first. i think the debian version of debootstrap still doesn't support Devuan either | 03:18 |
gnarface | Vall: are you trying to upgrade to Devuan or are you just trying to mix some packages from the repos into Debian? | 03:19 |
Vall | gnarface: I installed Devuan from the Live DVD, using the Install script on the Desktop | 03:20 |
gnarface | oh hmmm | 03:21 |
gnarface | Vall: so no packages from outside of Devuan? | 03:21 |
Vall | What I'm trying to do is to add the ZFS repo, which I did on a Mint machine with `sudo apt-add-repository ppa:zfs-native/stable` | 03:22 |
Vall | A little searching brought that up: https://www.mail-archive.com/dng@lists.dyne.org/msg14671.html | 03:23 |
Vall | Seems it's an old issue (at least 1.25 years old) which haven't been addressed yet :-( | 03:23 |
gnarface | there's a bug report about this happening once in 2009 in debian lenny too | 03:24 |
gnarface | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=513039 | 03:24 |
gnarface | Vall, maybe you need to correct your sources.list first | 03:25 |
gnarface | it could be wrong | 03:25 |
gnarface | you didn't swap python versions by any chance, did you? | 03:25 |
gnarface | this seems like the type of problem lots of things might cause | 03:25 |
Vall | LOL | 03:26 |
Vall | old bugs never die, it seems ;-) | 03:26 |
Vall | Well, going to add the repo to sources.d manually then. | 03:26 |
gnarface | there's still a chance this could be self-inflicted | 03:27 |
gnarface | but i guess what matters is that it works | 03:27 |
gnarface | i wonder if anyone else here has seen the same probem | 03:27 |
gnarface | like, recently | 03:27 |
gnarface | the fact you installed from the live image may be related | 03:28 |
Vall | gnarface: never mind, found a much easier way to do what I wanted (seems zfs is on the official Devuan repo) | 03:31 |
Vall | installing it from there right now | 03:31 |
gnarface | ah good. always better to use the native packages when available | 03:31 |
Vall | Anyone knows how to configure xfce so <control><alt><arrow> doesn't go through the beginning/end of each "row"? | 03:33 |
gnarface | you mean in the window manager? not a terminal cursor? | 03:34 |
gnarface | maybe try settings->window manager->keyboard? | 03:35 |
gnarface | i dont' use xfce | 03:35 |
gnarface | it should be pretty easy though to find the settings | 03:35 |
Jjp137 | Vall, this works for me: Settings -> Window Manager Tweaks -> Workspaces tab -> "Wrap workspaces depending on the actual desktop layout" | 03:37 |
Vall | gnarface: the workspace wrap setting worked, thanks! | 04:40 |
Vall | another question: the ZFS version on contrib is too old, I need the one on backports. | 04:42 |
Vall | How do I set apt-get install to get a specific version? adding `=VERSION` after the `apt-get install PACKAGE` returned `E: Unable to locate package | 04:44 |
Vall | OK, `-t ascii-backports` did it | 04:50 |
gnarface | Vall: sorry, i had wandered off, and that was Jjp137's suggestion anyway, but i'm glad you got it working. thanks for letting us know. | 05:35 |
Chanku | I'm officially getting around to updating my current install to ASCII Stable from what basically remained constant during the ASCII Alpha/Beta periods | 05:50 |
golinux | Chanku: Remember to point you sources to deb.devuan.org | 06:22 |
Chanku | tI have | 06:23 |
golinux | Let us know how it goes | 06:23 |
golinux | That user finally got registered with a static connection btw | 06:24 |
Sleaker | golinux you ever dealt with self-building preseeded ISOs/apt repos? | 06:24 |
Sleaker | trying to get a question answered but I think the knowledge base is narrow on the subject. | 06:24 |
Chanku | I also have finally upgraded chromium. | 06:25 |
golinux | Sleaker: No I haven't. I'm a desktop user. | 06:42 |
Sleaker | ah kk | 07:06 |
Sleaker | :( | 07:06 |
artishka | i'm trying to install devuan in a vm | 09:15 |
artishka | but the download speed is painfully slow | 09:15 |
artishka | i've tried changing mirrors between the country specific ones and the pkgmaster one | 09:16 |
artishka | it's not utilizing my full network speed | 09:16 |
artishka | right now it's been on the "Select and install software" phase for ages | 09:17 |
artishka | my network monitor shows its only going 20-40 KB/s | 09:17 |
artishka | whereas my connection maxes out at 1 MB/s | 09:18 |
syco_ | wow :') | 09:18 |
artishka | I've also tried entering mirrors manually from http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 09:18 |
artishka | but that's a no go | 09:18 |
artishka | can anyone help me out on this one? | 09:20 |
artishka | a strange thing is on the initial "Retrieving 13 files" stage, it did use my maximum connection speed for a while | 09:20 |
Jasjar | Hello all. I'm torn between this and Gentoo... What are the differences besides package managers? | 09:20 |
artishka | Jasjar: binary- vs. source-based | 09:21 |
artishka | also, you can install GNOME without systemd on Gentoo, if that's your thing | 09:22 |
syco_ | choice (amount of packaged stuff) and maturity | 09:22 |
Jasjar | Ehh, I prefer KDS of xfce4 | 09:22 |
Jasjar | *KDE or | 09:23 |
artishka | Jasjar: it mostly boils down to if you can handle the compile times | 09:24 |
syco_ | not necessarily .. you can also install binaries with gentoo if you don't want to compile everything | 09:25 |
Jasjar | .deb's? | 09:25 |
artishka | syco_: that, too | 09:25 |
Jasjar | I guess I'll put devuan on my laptop and Gentoo on my PC since that actually has some CPU power... | 09:26 |
artishka | Jasjar: you can also compile packages on your PC and let your laptop use those | 09:27 |
Jasjar | Yes, but that's more annoying than just waiting for the package to compile... | 09:28 |
syco_ | well, i wouldn't install gentoo from stage1 on a laptop :p | 09:29 |
Jasjar | syco_: I already did that on some old HP laptop already lol | 09:31 |
golinux | artishka: Try deb.devuan.org which consists of maybe a dozen load balanced repo servers. | 09:45 |
KatolaZ | artishka: all the servers behind deb.devuan.org provide at least 250Mb/s | 09:53 |
KatolaZ | most of them are well over 1Gb/s | 09:53 |
artishka | golinux: KatolaZ: I've tried those. It starts out max speed, then throttles down to 20-40 KB/s. | 10:57 |
KatolaZ | artishka: are you shure it's not your ISP? | 11:20 |
syco_ | probably | 11:21 |
KatolaZ | (or your disk?) | 11:21 |
KatolaZ | (OK, that was silly :D) | 11:21 |
FlibberTGibbet | silly question of the week. has anyone here tried to convert a Stretch install on WSL to Devuan? asking for a friend ;) | 12:05 |
KatolaZ | WSL? | 12:07 |
* FlibberTGibbet blushes | 12:08 | |
FlibberTGibbet | Windows Subsystem for Linux | 12:08 |
* FlibberTGibbet looks into the middle distance and whistles innocently | 12:08 | |
KatolaZ | O_o | 12:09 |
KatolaZ | what is that? | 12:09 |
FlibberTGibbet | it's a mapping for syscalls etc so you can run a distro directly inside Win | 12:09 |
KatolaZ | Witchcraft? | 12:09 |
KatolaZ | oh | 12:09 |
FlibberTGibbet | dark and terrible magic, certianly | 12:09 |
FlibberTGibbet | s/certianly/certainly | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | but the "aasking for a friend" is not at all convincing... | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | :D | 12:10 |
FlibberTGibbet | damn. saw right through me :) | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | "My cousin said" | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | "The neighbour wants to know" | 12:10 |
FlibberTGibbet | or some guy at the pub... | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | "I have a friend who asked..." | 12:10 |
KatolaZ | yeah | 12:11 |
KatolaZ | we have been around enough :D | 12:11 |
FlibberTGibbet | anyway, they have Stretch on the Win10 store. was wondering if there's a straightforward way of turning a Stretch install into Ascii | 12:11 |
ivanshmakov | “Inquiring minds want to know.” | 12:13 |
ivanshmakov | “(While the minds with self-preservation instincts run away screaming.)” | 12:15 |
FlibberTGibbet | lol ivanshmakov | 12:15 |
FlibberTGibbet | i know. just that gitbash for Windows only provides a subset of the usual commands of a Linux distro, and I'd rather have an actual Devuan-backed shell on the box than the ported GNU userland, or fire up a full VM every time. | 12:16 |
ivanshmakov | FlibberTGibbet: I can’t seem to recall the author of the quote, sadly. | 12:17 |
FlibberTGibbet | ah, dev1fanboy has a decent looking tutorial on the devuan gitlab. | 12:19 |
FlibberTGibbet | what could possibly go wrong(TM)? | 12:19 |
buZz | who put stretch on the win10 store? | 12:19 |
FlibberTGibbet | microsoft by the looks of it | 12:20 |
FlibberTGibbet | along with suse, ubuntu and kali | 12:20 |
buZz | ah, debian themselves it says | 12:21 |
FlibberTGibbet | ah, ok | 12:21 |
buZz | maybe you could make it your mission to make a devuan for that windows linux emulator | 12:21 |
FlibberTGibbet | but still, if that works then I reckon it's worth a try to convert to Ascii. just for lolz | 12:21 |
buZz | fyi, it performs shitpoor | 12:21 |
FlibberTGibbet | ah, that's a bugger | 12:21 |
KatolaZ | so, Linux on top of Windows... | 12:22 |
FlibberTGibbet | horrible but true. | 12:22 |
KatolaZ | with syscalls translated on the fly | 12:22 |
FlibberTGibbet | yup. | 12:22 |
FlibberTGibbet | lovely, eh? :/ | 12:22 |
KatolaZ | windows is not able to manages its own syscalls... | 12:22 |
KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: cygwin | 12:23 |
buZz | i dont get why you'd not run linux native | 12:23 |
buZz | the 'mah games' argument is kinda mute now that steam has over 5000 native linux games | 12:23 |
KatolaZ | well, sometimes at work you have to get along with windows | 12:24 |
buZz | windows runs well in a VM on linux | 12:24 |
KatolaZ | buZz: if you can do that | 12:24 |
KatolaZ | i.e., if you administer the machine you are supposed yto use... | 12:24 |
buZz | you mean, if you have the aptitude? | 12:24 |
KatolaZ | nope | 12:24 |
buZz | oh like that | 12:24 |
artishka | KatolaZ: strange, it's working fine now... | 12:24 |
KatolaZ | if you have the power :) | 12:24 |
FlibberTGibbet | buZz: I'd do that in a heartbeat if I thought the Adobe crap, Rhino, my renderer etc wouldn't be slowed right down | 12:24 |
artishka | whatever could it have been? | 12:24 |
Drugo | Hello. Is there a LAMP ready Vagrantfile for devuan? | 12:24 |
FlibberTGibbet | anyway, more of a curiosity. i'll let you know if it works. | 12:25 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: wine3.x is quite amazing | 12:25 |
KatolaZ | artishka: probably your ISP, since you tried from different mirrors | 12:25 |
Chanku | Dual boot is also an option | 12:25 |
FlibberTGibbet | buZz: it's not up to the job with things like Indesign CC or Maxwell Render though. | 12:25 |
KatolaZ | single boot is the sensible option | 12:25 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: you tried wine 3.x ? thats only out since a couple months | 12:25 |
Chanku | I mean if you have to use Windows for something, dual booting is a decent option. I've done it before | 12:26 |
buZz | supports directx 11 even | 12:26 |
FlibberTGibbet | buZz: I'm going for option 2: make the next fancy laptop linux-only, gradually retire the Windows side of my work :) | 12:26 |
FlibberTGibbet | and keep things jogging along until then | 12:26 |
buZz | :) thats me ~20 years ago | 12:26 |
buZz | winME left me unable to ever consider microsoft' solutions workable | 12:27 |
FlibberTGibbet | my mistake for staying around publishing too long. the rest of what i do doesn't need proprietary sw at all | 12:27 |
Chanku | I used to dual boot with Windows 7 (actually triple boot: Win 7, Manjaro Open-RC, and Devuan/Debian) for a handful of games that I really like that don't run outside of Windows and for when I need to ensure windows compatability. | 12:27 |
KatolaZ | Chanku: many times you don't have the option to dual-boot | 12:27 |
KatolaZ | :) | 12:27 |
KatolaZ | in some places you have to use a windows desktop | 12:27 |
Chanku | I know, I am currently in one of those times :P | 12:27 |
KatolaZ | :D | 12:27 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: true artists dont need branded paintbrushes to make art ;) | 12:27 |
KatolaZ | I had once | 12:28 |
Chanku | (Albeit my limitation is staying with Devuan :D) | 12:28 |
KatolaZ | I just installed cygwin with windowmaker | 12:28 |
KatolaZ | :) | 12:28 |
FlibberTGibbet | buZz: no, but commercially viable designers need to use the same software as their peers. sad but true. | 12:28 |
Chanku | And I mean a VM for a system works alright depending on what yo uneed. | 12:28 |
artishka | KatolaZ: it worked fine if i tried to download files directly using wget from within the vm, tho | 12:28 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: well yeah, sectors that depend on non-openfileformats should just die :) | 12:28 |
FlibberTGibbet | fair point though, might be worth putting a Win10 VM on the next machine and hosting it on a proper OS | 12:28 |
buZz | around the time i made my switch , windows in a VM on linux performed way better than windows on the same machine natively :P | 12:29 |
FlibberTGibbet | really buZz? that's nearly all of solid modelling, most of rendering, nearly all publishing and graphic design work. hope you can feed them after you've banned their jobs... | 12:29 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: brlcad / openscad are both open formats used in a -lot- of industrial designs | 12:30 |
Chanku | what formats does graphic design work need that's non-open? | 12:30 |
buZz | -and- foss software | 12:30 |
buZz | Chanku: PSD :P | 12:30 |
buZz | AI , PDF | 12:30 |
buZz | that kinda pooha | 12:30 |
FlibberTGibbet | buZz: now design me an oil rig in either of those and be sure it works in advance | 12:30 |
FlibberTGibbet | i'd love to see all those things replaced by non-proprietary software but it's a long way off being the case | 12:30 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: you dont know what brlcad is, do you? :P | 12:30 |
buZz | FlibberTGibbet: its used for ~99% of US military cad needs | 12:31 |
buZz | incl simulations | 12:31 |
FlibberTGibbet | good for them. | 12:31 |
Chanku | AI? | 12:31 |
buZz | Chanku: adobe's inkscape clone has that as fileformat | 12:31 |
FlibberTGibbet | inkscape would be great if it wasn't using svg (piss-poor cmyk support for print) under the hood | 12:32 |
Chanku | Krita can export PSD files | 12:32 |
buZz | inkscape has native cmyk aswell | 12:32 |
FlibberTGibbet | now assemble that lot into a solid workflow when a client's screaming at you. not saying it wouldn't be ideal, but unless you've done exactly what I do for a living this is all a lot like wishful thinking | 12:32 |
buZz | lol clients | 12:33 |
FlibberTGibbet | yes, those people who pay for me to eat and have somewhere to live. lol indeed. | 12:33 |
buZz | they're funny | 12:33 |
Chanku | I mean Krita is rather similar to Photoshop, especially from a UI perspective. | 12:33 |
buZz | krita is more like mspaint, from what i can see | 12:34 |
FlibberTGibbet | it's good. but it's a painting app. not the same in many use cases to the publishing workflow | 12:34 |
FlibberTGibbet | mostly i just wish the proprietary bods would at least ship their stuff for a sensible os | 12:34 |
buZz | adobe promissed that a bunch of times, same @ autodesk | 12:35 |
Chanku | buZz it's nowhere close to mspaint | 12:35 |
buZz | they'll never do | 12:35 |
FlibberTGibbet | adobe are working on a chromeos version but it's taking longer than, well, something very slow indeed | 12:35 |
buZz | webbrowser clients are just not productive | 12:35 |
FlibberTGibbet | most of the adobe stuff now looks a lot like a browser app in waiting -- lightweight controls etc | 12:36 |
buZz | yeah gross, and then the browser apps that tend to morph towards a phone display | 12:36 |
FlibberTGibbet | and it relies on npm (ugh) under the hood so i'm betting that's exactly what their stuff will be in 10 years time | 12:36 |
FlibberTGibbet | ugh | 12:36 |
FlibberTGibbet | i'm just amazed at the stuff I can crank out using RMarkdown and a charting library these days. | 12:37 |
FlibberTGibbet | plus XeTex with opentype fonts. | 12:37 |
FlibberTGibbet | ah, it's booting :D | 12:38 |
FlibberTGibbet | heh, fell over at apt-get update | 12:39 |
buZz | on just -update- ? gee | 12:40 |
buZz | oh, you're devuan-ing that windows10 debian? | 12:40 |
FlibberTGibbet | trying | 12:40 |
FlibberTGibbet | actually it won't ping deb.debian.org so i'll have to try it without an update before swapping to ascii | 12:41 |
KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: uh? | 12:43 |
FlibberTGibbet | ah, it won't get through to much at all. apparently all sorts of problems with name resolution | 12:44 |
FlibberTGibbet | the hell with that. life's too short to waste time on ms kludges. :) | 13:00 |
filip | hi i dont know why iv had problems with too high core 0 core 1 temperature when i play game from 2007 its rising and rising its 60 celsius degrees now ;/ | 13:29 |
filip | i think there should be different default browser than firefox | 14:00 |
gnarface | there should be, but it's unfortunately the only one so far that passes muster for packaging in debian and is also fully open-source and can render commercial web pages | 14:02 |
gnarface | chrome isn't open source | 14:02 |
gnarface | palemoon apparently can't be packaged (emotional issues?) | 14:02 |
gnarface | and everything else is either no longer supported, closed source, no longer supported AND closed source, or can't reliably render anything more complex than Gimp documentation | 14:03 |
debdog | would adding the official palemoon repo be an option? | 14:03 |
gnarface | i don't know and can't say but i assume no | 14:04 |
syco_ | what about brave ? | 14:04 |
gnarface | getting *debian* to add palemoon *would* be an option in theory but i assume that the reason it hasn't been done already is something nobody is willing to change | 14:04 |
gnarface | (whatever that is) | 14:05 |
gnarface | hmmm, i don't know anything about brave | 14:05 |
debdog | what if the repo is in sources list but disabled by default? | 14:05 |
gnarface | i'm surprised to hear it was actually finished... i guess it's been out all year | 14:05 |
gnarface | debdog: mixing repos isn't generally an advised practice outside of ubuntu and winehq | 14:06 |
gnarface | i can't really see them doing that | 14:07 |
gnarface | but again, i don't know | 14:07 |
debdog | well, since palemoon is not in the official repo the chance of havin gconflicts is pretty low | 14:07 |
gnarface | but the question remains why it's not | 14:08 |
debdog | TBH, the browsers being very outdated on debian stable is a real bugger. adding additional repos for them might be a tolerable way to go. | 14:09 |
gnarface | people can do that on their own though | 14:11 |
KatolaZ | palemoon has several restrictions concerning repackaging and redistribution | 14:12 |
KatolaZ | debdog: which browser is "very outdated"? | 14:12 |
debdog | which brings me back to "what if the repo is in sources list but disabled by default?" gnarface | 14:12 |
KatolaZ | debdog: why should it be in the sources.list then? | 14:13 |
gnarface | debdog: then it falsely gives the impression of endorsement to packages that the project nor the parent project has any control over the compatibility for, then you're back in the same mess as all the ubuntu PPAs | 14:13 |
KatolaZ | if people know about it, they can include it in sources.list... | 14:13 |
gnarface | debdog: the problem with firefox in ascii being really old is a situation Google manufactured themselves btw | 14:14 |
KatolaZ | tbh, palemoon has a quite strange redistribution policy | 14:14 |
gnarface | er, mozilla i guess. google isn't paying them anymore are they? | 14:14 |
debdog | KatolaZ: actually, no clue. was talking of times past on debian. I have my browsers outside of the debian/devuan repo for years now | 14:14 |
KatolaZ | debdog: o_O | 14:15 |
KatolaZ | debdog: firefox 52.6 was released on June 2018 | 14:16 |
debdog | <KatolaZ> debdog: why should it be in the sources.list then? -- well, just a thought, to make it easier to add a browser repo. and i am not talking about palemoon per se, just an example for any browser | 14:16 |
KatolaZ | and it's already in the repos... | 14:16 |
KatolaZ | debdog: if you add stuff, people expect it to be working out of the box | 14:16 |
KatolaZ | which you can't guarantee | 14:16 |
debdog | also, hehe, who is talking about firefox at all? the talk started with "<filip> i think there should be different default browser than firefox" | 14:17 |
KatolaZ | (sorry, 52.6 was release in january :D) | 14:18 |
KatolaZ | debdog: I also think that the default X should come with xmonad... | 14:18 |
KatolaZ | this does not make it a choice a distro should go for :D | 14:18 |
debdog | considering devuan's target audience, a different than firefox browser might be a valid option, though | 14:19 |
gnarface | i wish there WAS a better option | 14:20 |
debdog | also, if people go for "what most of the people use", they prolly go for debian anyway ;) | 14:20 |
ivanshmakov | AIUI, Pale Moon is rather outdated itself; if anything, they don’t have as much manpower as Firefox has. | 14:30 |
ivanshmakov | Also, http://howtogeek.com/335712/ has some valid points. Unfortunately, to me personally, the choice between, say, Basilisk and Firefox is increasingly one between an insecure program that does work /and/ a secure one that doesn’t. | 14:33 |
ivanshmakov | It gets to the point that I’m starting contemplating forking Firefox myself. If I’m to hazard a guess, Mozilla thinks that ‘modernizing’ UI every other major version constitutes continuous improvement. Arguably, it’s actually a sign of perpetual horrendousness. | 14:35 |
debdog | agreed. the task at hand should be finding a replacement, or creating one | 14:38 |
MinceR | where will you get the manpower palemoon failed to get, though? | 14:38 |
gnarface | well you could start chucking features overboard | 14:38 |
gnarface | i mean, did it really need a wallet? | 14:39 |
MinceR | the "modern" web itself is irredeemably bloated | 14:39 |
MinceR | they, too, chucked features overboard | 14:39 |
MinceR | WebRTC, for example | 14:39 |
ivanshmakov | There’re some things that I’d get rid of, indeed. “Safebrowsing,” for instance, seem like an immediate threat to privacy; as is anything that requires a Mozilla account (like loop or sync.) | 14:42 |
ivanshmakov | Well, more like s/immediate/potential/, yet still. | 14:43 |
ivanshmakov | Also, use cURL for HTTP – do not reinvent the wheel; save on maintenance costs. | 14:43 |
xrogaan | anybody here could tell me if this command also returns a SSL3 error? 'openssl s_client -connect pops.tuxfamily.org:110' | 18:06 |
xrogaan | I get this: 140194136040704:error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number:../ssl/record/ssl3_record.c:252: | 18:06 |
Acacia | I also agree Devuan should have a chromium/firefox alternative. There's Midori in the repositories but that's not always usable. I think IceCat would be a good start, but maybe also palemoon. With IceCat there's a more freedom respecting browser, and then things become a question of the quality of the browser you pick, which we don't really have a choice beyond "bad" currently. The commandline browsers are | 18:06 |
Acacia | pretty good but they're not always usable too. | 18:06 |
KatolaZ | Acacia: palemoon cannot be redistributed in Devuan | 18:07 |
KatolaZ | due to palemoon's license | 18:07 |
KatolaZ | palemoon is somehow in a grey area | 18:07 |
KatolaZ | you can't redistribuite a rebuilt version | 18:08 |
KatolaZ | Acacia: have you tried surf2? | 18:08 |
Acacia | KatolaZ: Haven't heard of it until now | 18:08 |
KatolaZ | :) | 18:09 |
xrogaan | trying to check if openssl is buggy on the client side or if the server is bad. | 18:20 |
xrogaan | midori is crashy btw | 18:20 |
KatolaZ | well xrogaan even firefox is "crashy" | 18:21 |
KatolaZ | as soon as you put the computer on sleep, it says "gash! YOUR tab has crached!" | 18:21 |
KatolaZ | FFS, that's not MY tab. | 18:21 |
KatolaZ | it's YOUR fucking tab, dear firefox... | 18:22 |
bozonius | KatolaZ: I like it. Tell mozilla where to take it. Straighten them out! | 18:32 |
KingNeutron | Howdy - anyone home? | 19:11 |
KingNeutron | I'd like to donate a PC to Devuan | 19:12 |
]BFG[ | i have like to donate some gbit download servers to host devuan isos | 23:22 |
xrogaan | KatolaZ: what I meant was that if you visit a website with midori, chances are it'll crash. | 23:29 |
xrogaan | just because of the javascript or html or whatever. It's not stable. | 23:29 |
xrogaan | stack exchange doesn't display correctly either. | 23:29 |
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