* man_in_shack waves | 11:21 | |
man_in_shack | is there a comparison of the different init services listed somewhere? :) | 11:25 |
---|---|---|
ryuujin | man_in_shack: in gentoo wiki there's a nice comparison: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems | 11:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | UGH [DNG] jaromil >>https://linux.slashdot.org/story/18/09/22/0150209/new-custom-linux-distro-is-systemd-free-debian-based-and-optimized-for-windows-10 licensing-wise has a rather dodgy change to MIT<< WRF how could they change licensing from GPL to anything else? | 14:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL >>It can also be downloaded from Microsoft Store at a 50% discount,<< | 14:16 |
man_in_shack | wat wat wat | 14:56 |
man_in_shack | "custom linux distro optimised for windows 10"? | 14:56 |
nemo | well, windows 10 does have that linux-compatible posix subsystem now | 14:57 |
nemo | embrace-extend-extinguish! | 14:57 |
nemo | but. yeah ☺ | 14:57 |
nemo | ah. that's exactly what the article is about | 14:58 |
man_in_shack | reading up on all the bullshit systemd does on suckless.org | 15:02 |
man_in_shack | and why debian deicded to go with systemd in the first place | 15:02 |
man_in_shack | and i'm sitting here wondering, why is having PID1 talk over dbus considered a GOOD thing? | 15:03 |
man_in_shack | what possible advantage can that have? | 15:03 |
MinceR | i wonder how is it a "Linux distro" if it doesn't even contain Linux | 15:09 |
man_in_shack | yah | 15:13 |
man_in_shack | that's slashdot for you | 15:13 |
fsmithred | man_in_shack, PID1 needs to control everything to make sure it's done the right way. 'Cause the old way is wrong. | 15:18 |
nemo | man_in_shack: you'd probably enjoy my fav rant I ran into on without-systemd.org | 15:33 |
nemo | lemme dig it up | 15:33 |
nemo | oof. lot of articles in http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_articles_critical_of_systemd | 15:34 |
nemo | trying to rember. it was a good rant. | 15:35 |
ryuujin | woohhaa | 15:36 |
man_in_shack | yah, i did a little reading there too | 15:36 |
nemo | " | 15:43 |
nemo | And yes, a large part of this may be that I no longer feel like I can | 15:43 |
nemo | trust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why. | 15:43 |
nemo | " | 15:43 |
nemo | -- linux | 15:43 |
nemo | *s | 15:43 |
nemo | god my fingers keep wanting to type s | 15:43 |
nemo | *x aaaagh | 15:43 |
nemo | man_in_shack: http://wizardofbits.tumblr.com/post/45232318557/systemd-more-like-shit-stemd ← this was my favourite rant - had to go into the history to find it | 15:46 |
nemo | someone removed it from list of articles ☹ | 15:46 |
nemo | man_in_shack: apparently someone doesn't enjoy a good rant. | 15:46 |
man_in_shack | heh | 15:48 |
man_in_shack | hmm | 15:54 |
man_in_shack | trying to switch from debian to devuan and apt is ignoring all the devuan files | 15:54 |
KatolaZ | man_in_shack: what do you mean? | 15:54 |
KatolaZ | which debian release? | 15:54 |
KatolaZ | which Devuan repos are you using? | 15:55 |
KatolaZ | are you going through the upgrade howto? | 15:55 |
KatolaZ | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ <- man_in_shack | 15:55 |
man_in_shack | huh | 15:57 |
man_in_shack | wasn't working with deb.devuan, is working with pkgmaster.devuan | 15:58 |
man_in_shack | deb/sid => devu/ceres | 15:58 |
KatolaZ | uh? | 16:00 |
KatolaZ | define "wasn't working|" | 16:00 |
KatolaZ | (please) | 16:00 |
jaromil | i actually am just hitting a bug in dash | 16:01 |
man_in_shack | "wasn't working" = Ign on every devuan file when doing apt update | 16:01 |
man_in_shack | and looping | 16:01 |
KatolaZ | o_O | 16:01 |
jaromil | but is unrelated | 16:01 |
KatolaZ | can you please try again? | 16:01 |
KatolaZ | jaromil:bug in dash? | 16:01 |
jaromil | however beowulf gets a new dash package from debian which is broken | 16:01 |
jaromil | yes | 16:01 |
KatolaZ | ffs | 16:01 |
jaromil | Adding 'diversion of /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz to /usr/share/man/man1/sh.distrib.1.gz by dash' | 16:01 |
KatolaZ | which one ? | 16:01 |
jaromil | Errors were encountered while processing: | 16:01 |
jaromil | /var/cache/apt/archives/dash_0.5.10.2-1_amd64.deb | 16:01 |
jaromil | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) | 16:02 |
man_in_shack | still Ign | 16:02 |
jaromil | also visible here https://travis-ci.org/DECODEproject/decode-os/builds/432953915 | 16:02 |
KatolaZ | man_in_shack: which line are you using? | 16:02 |
KatolaZ | jaromil: I have that package installed | 16:02 |
KatolaZ | was upgraded yesterday I guess | 16:03 |
man_in_shack | http://dpaste.com/377PRNS | 16:03 |
man_in_shack | deb [allow-insecure=yes arch=amd64] https://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main | 16:03 |
KatolaZ | man_in_shack: http not https | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | there is no https support for deb.devuan.org | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | it's a DNS rr | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | (Round-Robin) | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | http-only | 16:04 |
jaromil | KatolaZ: i think it breaks on minimal systems | 16:04 |
jaromil | that have no manpages | 16:04 |
jaromil | or something like that | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | if you want https, use one of the mirrors listed at https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 16:04 |
man_in_shack | oop (: | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | man_in_shack: ^^^^ | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | jaromil: I see | 16:04 |
man_in_shack | that makes sense then | 16:04 |
KatolaZ | we sould investigate that I guess | 16:05 |
KatolaZ | jaromil: is that image obtained with debootstrap? | 16:05 |
KatolaZ | or by "other means"? | 16:05 |
KatolaZ | maybe some package has been promoted to "essential" and you are not pulling it by not using debootstrap <- jaromil | 16:06 |
KatolaZ | bbl | 16:06 |
KatolaZ | o/ | 16:06 |
man_in_shack | who wants to buy me an internet connection i can run an australian mirror on? :D | 16:06 |
man_in_shack | "update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported" the fuck? | 16:12 |
man_in_shack | i assume that's some systemd shit | 16:12 |
man_in_shack | huh. lightdm depends on libpam-systemd | consolekit [UNAVAILABLE] | 16:14 |
man_in_shack | :( | 16:14 |
jaromil | KatolaZ: yes, the base image is obtained by update from debian | 16:16 |
jaromil | as per olaf meuwissen's base docker images | 16:16 |
man_in_shack | consolekit in experimental and ascii but not beowolf or ceres | 16:17 |
man_in_shack | fun | 16:17 |
golinux | man_in_shack: The best rant ever! http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html | 16:22 |
* golinux is just now reading the backlogs | 16:23 | |
man_in_shack | hm | 16:23 |
man_in_shack | do i want polkit-backend-consolekit or polkit-backend-elogind? :) | 16:24 |
fsmithred | man_in_shack, it depends on whether you're using consolekit or elogind | 16:25 |
man_in_shack | well if i go with sysvinit-core + consolekit, elogind also got selected by aptitude | 16:26 |
fsmithred | what's pulling in elogind? | 16:27 |
fsmithred | what desktop and display manager do you have? | 16:27 |
fsmithred | (or want) | 16:28 |
golinux | man_in_shack: Read the ascii release notes: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt | 16:28 |
man_in_shack | aptitude is selecting libpam-elogind from policykit-1 | 16:31 |
man_in_shack | ok, i've selected packages differently, now it wants consolekit :P | 16:33 |
man_in_shack | but looks like lightdm works better with elogind | 16:33 |
golinux | man_in_shack: Yes. There is a post about that on the forum. | 16:38 |
fsmithred | power buttons in lightdm seem to need consolekit | 16:41 |
fsmithred | bb in 20min | 16:43 |
fsmithred | this might be helpful: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=11829#p11829 | 16:43 |
man_in_shack | oh fun | 16:48 |
man_in_shack | sysvinit has decided to kexec instead of rebooting :P | 16:48 |
man_in_shack | ok | 17:06 |
man_in_shack | need to see sysvinit boot log | 17:07 |
man_in_shack | kexec seems unhappy with me :D | 17:57 |
man_in_shack | so, sysvinit + elogind, getting a message on boot, "udevd: Error running install command for nvidia" | 18:01 |
man_in_shack | /lib/udev/nvidia_helper runs /lib/udev/udev-acl, which is only present in consolekit package | 18:03 |
man_in_shack | huh. switching to consolekit didn't fix that error | 18:07 |
man_in_shack | although it doesn't seem to affect functionality at all | 18:07 |
man_in_shack | switching to consolekit DID fix lightdm's power menu though :D | 18:08 |
man_in_shack | welp so much for systemd being about speed. shave off 2 seconds of my boot time by switching to sysvinit | 18:11 |
man_in_shack | openrc in parallel mode is even faster again | 18:33 |
man_in_shack | i can probably cut it down further by fixing some semi-broken stuff :D | 18:34 |
telst4r | it's all about boot time, right ? :D | 18:36 |
man_in_shack | obviously | 18:38 |
man_in_shack | if systemd was faster than alternatives, i'd be both confused and disappointed | 18:39 |
telst4r | why? | 18:40 |
sxpert | systemd is broken by design | 18:40 |
man_in_shack | confused because it's a massively bloated piece of shit | 18:40 |
man_in_shack | disappointed because leaner alternatives should be faster by definition | 18:41 |
sxpert | I don't really care about being fast, I don't reboot machines often | 18:41 |
telst4r | I'm not sure about that. if it's just a yuge pile of doo, wouldn't it require less of calls and buses and inter-operability with other programs? hence less waiting and memory lookups (In very loosely thought theory) | 18:42 |
sxpert | I'd rather have a does one thing at a time, reliably, thing, that this pile of garbage | 18:43 |
* man_in_shack agrees with sxpert | 18:43 | |
man_in_shack | the fuck does PID1 need dbus for? (: | 18:44 |
telst4r | sxpert, oh you unix ppl.. :) | 18:44 |
sxpert | the fuck does PID1 needs a integrated webserver and QRcodes display | 18:44 |
sxpert | telst4r: hehe | 18:45 |
telst4r | sxpert, well.. if they're ever gonna create a bitcoin fullnode in systemd it has this qr display.... | 18:45 |
sxpert | telst4r: EDONTCARE | 18:45 |
sxpert | useless piece of junk spotted ;-) (both systemd and bitcoin) | 18:46 |
telst4r | :D | 18:46 |
* sxpert proposes to hang this lennard fellow next time he shows up ;) | 18:48 | |
man_in_shack | the fuck does PID1 need any networking stuff at all? | 18:48 |
man_in_shack | network stuff breaking was what pushed me over the edge | 18:49 |
man_in_shack | everything else i can put up with systemd being bloated, insecure, poorly designed shit | 18:50 |
telst4r | "just don't run it" -- alright, thanks for the advice. | 18:50 |
* sxpert goes back to twm.. none of that systemd/wayland bullshit | 18:51 | |
* man_in_shack throws ncurses at sxpert | 18:51 | |
sxpert | thank you ! | 18:52 |
man_in_shack | nothing inherently wrong with wayland | 18:53 |
man_in_shack | although it wouldn't surprise me if systemd ends up with a wayland server in it | 18:53 |
sxpert | can't do remote display... can't use it | 18:53 |
man_in_shack | send all your pixels via dbus | 18:54 |
* telst4r throws up freedesktop.org error messages | 18:54 | |
* sxpert throws up... | 18:55 | |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>send all your pixels via dbus<< afaik some 100% braindead linux variant for automotive aka car entertainment already does exactly that | 19:16 |
sxpert | well automotive devs are the worst ever | 19:18 |
telst4r | Why run linux in a car in the 1st place? | 19:18 |
DonkeyHotei | most cars run Windows Automotive | 19:18 |
sxpert | telst4r: considering what tesla does with it, it's a good match | 19:19 |
sxpert | DonkeyHotei: which regularly blue screens | 19:19 |
telst4r | I'd hate to have a blue screen in the middle of a highway passing somebody.. | 19:21 |
telst4r | "the driver has performed an illegal operation and will be terminated" | 19:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | old joke modified: "you changed the setting of the mouse ^H steering wheel. Please restart the system to make the change take effect" | 19:32 |
telst4r | That was pretty close to the reality back in the days :P | 19:35 |
buZz | i found a 'bug' :P | 22:42 |
buZz | > sudo apt install screenfetch ; screenfetch | 22:43 |
buZz | doesnt know what devuan is :P nor does it have a logo | 22:43 |
gnarface | https://bugs.devuan.org/ | 22:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like an upstream bug, tbh | 23:16 |
golinux | Agreed | 23:19 |
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