| gnarface | i just want to state for the record that i think the devuan community cloaks are about as bad of an idea as suggesting everyone add their genders to their name tag | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | great way to start a fight | 00:08 |
| gnarface | poor way to do anything else | 00:08 |
| gnarface | i get the concept of "showing support" but i think honestly it's really just exposing more attack surface. | 00:11 |
| gnarface | i fear any attention it draws to the project will be more negative than positive | 00:11 |
| Xenguy_ | Really gnarface ? | 00:28 |
| Xenguy_ | For me it's just about showing support | 00:28 |
| gnarface | it gives up stealth, that's all | 00:29 |
| Xenguy_ | I think I see your point | 00:29 |
| Xenguy_ | I'm still going to go for the devuan cloak; it's a way of showing support | 00:30 |
| buZz | its the same privacy removal as putting a devuan sticker on your laptop really | 00:38 |
| buZz | there's no stealth to cloaks whatsoever | 00:39 |
| golinux | <Xenguy_> Really gnarface ? Yes. It's about as silly as 'buntu beans or Discourse badges. | 00:51 |
| gnarface | could be just my paranoia, but i guess we'll see | 00:57 |
| gnarface | i guess it bears more explanation | 00:58 |
| gnarface | it's not just the unnecessary risk i see | 00:59 |
| gnarface | i really thought it would be better for the project if nobody thought it was very popular until after it was already very popular | 00:59 |
| golinux | If DNG is any indication, it's likely the rhetoric will be increasing | 00:59 |
| gnarface | if it quietly just gained users at a steady speed until it had achieved a silent majority | 00:59 |
| golinux | There are elements in Debian who really want Devuan to go away because we have been hanging on and new users coming in consistently | 01:00 |
| golinux | You are on DNG aren't you? | 01:01 |
| gnarface | no actually | 01:01 |
| gnarface | i probably should be | 01:01 |
| golinux | Well then you are out of the loop. | 01:01 |
| golinux | Hold on | 01:02 |
| golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2419 | 01:02 |
| gnarface | thanks for the info | 01:07 |
| gnarface | i had already heard some people mention it | 01:07 |
| gnarface | but thanks for the link | 01:07 |
| Xenguy | golinux: Well we'll agree to disagree in this case then | 01:08 |
| Xenguy | I'm all for wearing the colors at this point | 01:08 |
| Xenguy | It's just a +1, no big deal | 01:08 |
| Xenguy | And besides, it's an individual thing in this case I think | 01:09 |
| Xenguy | Besides, you're already flying the 'dev' colors I see = ) | 01:10 |
| golinux | gnarface: Form somewhere in that thread: "Devuan is� questionable, when one�s used to all of Debian." | 01:12 |
| golinux | Completely misinformed about what Devuan is. | 01:13 |
| gnarface | yea, this is the type of thing i'm talking about. weaponized willful ignorance | 01:13 |
| Xenguy | define "questionable", I'd say | 01:13 |
| golinux | And this really pissed me off: | 01:13 |
| golinux | Several people have said they believe that to be the end of Devuan, | 01:13 |
| golinux | and I concur, from what I�ve read. | 01:13 |
| golinux | That is all one quote from that thread | 01:14 |
| gnarface | yea of course they think it's impossible to find a maintainer for sysvinit | 01:14 |
| Xenguy | Aha, the Naysayers have landed | 01:14 |
| gnarface | but it can't be all that hard | 01:14 |
| Xenguy | I'm surprised there's no one to pick up on the sysvinit work | 01:14 |
| Xenguy | But there probably is, somewhere in the wings | 01:15 |
| Xenguy | It is important work tho | 01:15 |
| gnarface | on craigslist ad away | 01:15 |
| Xenguy | If someone steps up, they better be steady about it | 01:15 |
| Xenguy | hah | 01:15 |
| gnarface | *one craigslist ad away | 01:15 |
| Xenguy | It may have to be One Of Us | 01:16 |
| Xenguy | OOU | 01:17 |
| Xenguy | The Usual Suspects | 01:17 |
| Xenguy | TUS | 01:17 |
| mtnman | helo | 01:38 |
| Xenguy | Ola | 01:42 |
| Xenguy | hola? | 01:44 |
| golinux | Xenguy: Read the DBG archives. You are totally out of the loop at this point | 01:55 |
| golinux | Oops DNG | 01:55 |
| Xenguy | So what's the lastest news | 01:56 |
| Xenguy | ? | 01:56 |
| Xenguy | Somebody's got to step up to maintain sysvinit, no? | 01:56 |
| golinux | Start here: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20181017.131446.60f5cf0c.en.html | 01:57 |
| Xenguy | sigh, OK. I do appreciate timely info, so thanks, but there's so many rabbit holes too... I suppose this is an important issue | 01:58 |
| golinux | We were having a discussion on -dev until Ed decided to post to DNG and then . . . well. | 01:58 |
| golinux | The most important since the fork. | 01:58 |
| Xenguy | Oh gawd | 01:59 |
| golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=12323#p12323 | 02:00 |
| Xenguy | Alright, will have to read of course. There seems to be a steady new wave of people who don't get traditional *nix, who just want to innovate all the risky possibilities | 02:00 |
| golinux | It about something different than that | 02:01 |
| Xenguy | I'll read some more then ; -) | 02:01 |
| golinux | Please do. | 02:01 |
| golinux | You'll be at it a while | 02:01 |
| Xenguy | yay | 02:01 |
| golinux | You snooze, you have lots of catching up to do. :) | 02:02 |
| Xenguy | Meh, the world turns | 02:02 |
| golinux | I keep up ewith it and it's still a lot | 02:02 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, online takes time | 02:03 |
| Xenguy | 70,000 miles/per/hour | 02:04 |
| golinux | Unfortunately I don't have the skills to actually solve the problem so just watching from the sidelines and waking people up | 02:04 |
| Xenguy | I'll guess that someone has to adopt sysvinit... | 02:05 |
| Xenguy | But younger folks think it's a passe thing... | 02:05 |
| Xenguy | So someone else who has reverse vision will need to step in | 02:05 |
| Xenguy | And w/e happens: Don't Panic! | 02:06 |
| golinux | Please don't generalize. That could offend the younger members on this channel | 02:06 |
| Xenguy | So what? | 02:07 |
| gnarface | well you don't want to alienate the few who get it | 02:07 |
| golinux | They may not fit your stereotype and that's just rude. | 02:07 |
| golinux | Exactly. | 02:08 |
| Xenguy | Meh, ppl gonna hate, blah | 02:08 |
| golinux | Cop out. Just fess up that was a stupid thing to say | 02:08 |
| Xenguy | FTW | 02:09 |
| golinux | And take responsibility for not thinking before writing/. | 02:09 |
| Xenguy | Not at all | 02:09 |
| Xenguy | I'm all in for critical thinking | 02:09 |
| gnarface | i'm able to recall that sysvinit was already considered archaic when i was young and first picked it up | 02:10 |
| gnarface | despite that i was able to see the sense in the design | 02:10 |
| Xenguy | It's been around a long time, and worked | 02:10 |
| gnarface | my point is that if i was able to see it despite being too young, there may be others | 02:12 |
| gnarface | ageism is actually harmful in both directions | 02:12 |
| Xenguy | It's the ism's that make one weary | 02:12 |
| Xenguy | The self-censoring type of mental discourse | 02:13 |
| Xenguy | It's a CPU hog man | 02:13 |
| Xenguy | Look, we're going to all die, let's not worry too much about age | 02:13 |
| Xenguy | Older people get it a bit more directly, amirite? | 02:14 |
| golinux | labeling and judging is usually not a good idea because generalizations will always have exceptions. You are smarter than to fall into that abyss | 02:16 |
| Xenguy | Convictions cause convicts, sure I get it | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | But yeah, maybe someone will pick up sysvinit | 02:17 |
| golinux | Let''s take this silliness to #debianfork | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | I need to read some more, obv | 02:17 |
| golinux | Obviously | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | Oh yeah, wrong channel, apologies | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | But first, a Public Service Announcement... | 02:27 |
| Xenguy | Row row row you boat, gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream | 02:27 |
| MinceR | row row row your goat | 02:42 |
| Xenguy | *your | 02:51 |
| Xenguy | Better a goat than a sheep = ) | 02:51 |
| Centurion_Dan | I'm already working on devuan-baptise a dpkg-trigger base tool that on package install converts systemd units into the relevant init-scripts (sysvinit initially, but will also easily do openrc and others), cron jobs and [x]inetd service configs | 08:58 |
| Centurion_Dan | that will cover the common cases. | 08:58 |
| Wonka | Centurion_Dan: cool, that sounds interesting | 10:10 |
| HumanG33k | Centurion_Dan, really really cool, What language do you use? | 11:07 |
| HumanG33k | Some of you had some issues with php heap and current stable kernel ? | 11:11 |
| Centurion_Dan | HumanG33k: I'm probably going to use sh and awk to minimise pre-depends. | 11:13 |
| HumanG33k | Centurion_Dan, ok good, where the code will be ? gitlab ? | 11:18 |
| Centurion_Dan | I'm just figuring out if we can use the sd-notify api for services that should be supervised or have a watchdog timer. It appears we can use it. Service daemons compiled with libsystemd0 can spit out data to an AF_UNIX socket defined by the Environment variable $NOTIFY_SOCKET. The sd_notify api is described here http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/sd_notify.3.html | 11:19 |
| Centurion_Dan | HumanG33k: git.devuan.org:CenturionDan/devuan-baptise | 11:22 |
| Centurion_Dan | https://git.devuan.org:CenturionDan/devuan-baptise | 11:22 |
| Centurion_Dan | https://git.devuan.org:CenturionDan/devuan-baptise/ | 11:23 |
| Centurion_Dan | HumanG33k: at this stage it's still in the design phase... | 11:25 |
| HumanG33k | Good to know, it can be a good thing to use unit testing for your code ? to improve quality | 11:26 |
| negev | hi is there an openssl 1.1.1 package available yet? | 12:24 |
| negev | and/or gnutls 3.6.4? | 12:24 |
| Centurion_Dan | HumanG33k: absolutely!! | 12:24 |
| KatolaZ | negev: pkginfo.devuan.org | 12:26 |
| Human_G33k | Centurion_Dan, i will create an account soon, i m a little bit busy at least until december. | 13:07 |
| Human_G33k | KatolaZ, there is some devuan/companies partnership program or something like that ? | 13:07 |
| KatolaZ | Human_G33k: what do you mean? | 13:42 |
| Human_G33k | KatolaZ, to let’s know to the world all company are currently using devuan. | 13:48 |
| KatolaZ | Human_G33k: partnership means somehting else :) | 13:49 |
| KatolaZ | that's why I am asking | 13:49 |
| Human_G33k | it can be more but for the moment i dont have ressources for that. But i hope i will have some dedicated server in 2019 for an autobuild architecture and repository. (debian + devuan) | 13:59 |
| Human_G33k | and maybe one or two fulltime dev | 13:59 |
| Human_G33k | but for the moment nothing is done but it’s the plan | 14:00 |
| Human_G33k | and the fact some of you will become the debian sysvinit package it’s a good thing | 14:01 |
| stevelitt | gnarface, I like your phrase, "weaponized ignorance." From now on I'll use that phrase often. | 16:42 |
| HumanG33k | there is a way to track dmesg error and memory usage by program/package ? with nice graph ? | 16:50 |
| stevelitt | Which do you guys like better, logger, rsyslog, or syslog-ng? | 17:25 |
| nemo | stevelitt: I use metalog personally | 17:26 |
| nemo | but that's on gentoo ☺ | 17:26 |
| furrywolf | I haven't had to interact with any logger enough to have a preference. | 17:27 |
| nemo | on debian/devuan I tend to use defaults as much as possible | 17:27 |
| stevelitt | nemo, apt-cache shows a "metalogger server" called lizardfs-metalogger. Anybody else using any sort of metalog? | 17:54 |
| nemo | stevelitt: I gotta say I picked metalog like... 15 years ago ☺ | 17:55 |
| nemo | times change.. | 17:55 |
| nemo | http://metalog.sourceforge.net/ | 17:55 |
| nemo | at the time it had a rather nice feature set | 17:55 |
| nemo | and was more active | 17:55 |
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