libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-10-26

cirdanevening00:23
cirdanjust wondering, but why was a full xorg env installed even though I deselected x11 in the installer. the only thing i left checked was standard system utils. i even did a console install00:24
fsmithredcirdan, that's unusual. I install the same way, and I've never had that happen.00:31
fsmithredmaybe there's a hint in the installer log. I don't remember the exact file name, but it should be in /var/log (probably /var/log/installer)00:32
cirdanyeah i was surprised and annoyed00:33
cirdanalso i wish raspbian would go with devuan, or at least a systemd-less debian base :)00:34
fsmithreddon't we have an equivalent image for rpi?00:36
fsmithredcirdan, https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/embedded/00:39
cirdani mean with all the special rpi bits00:42
fsmithredoh, I don't know the details about either of them00:42
fsmithredwhat bits?00:42
cirdandevice tree stuff, custom kernels, some drivers and apps00:44
cirdanis the embedded built with hard foat abi?00:46
Centurion_Dancirdan: I believe thats all there, although I think some of the odd chips in the rpi 1 and rpi 0 series that aren't proper arm7 are only armel and don't have the hardfloat abi00:47
cirdanCenturion_Dan: not sure about that since the raspbian images work with every pi version00:47
Centurion_Danthe rpi3 being arm64 is built with everything arm6400:47
Centurion_Danin devuan at least.00:48
cirdanyeah but not raspbian00:48
cirdanthe 3b+ is arm8 but it reports arm7 by default00:49
Centurion_Dancirdan: IIRC raspbian did a custom architecture to take advantage of the vpf and neon - but the newer arm7 chips on later rpi2's didn't get their own armhf build as that would pretty much be just debian...00:51
cirdanyeah i read the faq00:51
Centurion_Dancirdan: devuan had working arm8 compatible arm64 before debian did.00:51
Centurion_Danas ready to go images for arm64 hardware.00:52
cirdansomething with tasksel wantd to install x1101:24
Tashtari"raspbuan"? :)01:28
cirdanrasputan01:31
Centurion_Danrus-putin01:34
Centurion_Dan;-)01:34
Centurion_Danrasvuan01:35
cirdanstill like rasputan01:42
buZzcirdan: xorg is only installed if you keep 'devuan desktop' selected in tasksel01:43
buZzat least on ascii01:43
cirdani unselected it01:44
cirdanvery weird01:44
buZzcirdan: the rpi3b+ reports as armv8 to me ;)01:44
buZz(with devuan)01:44
buZzhmm dont have one on01:45
DRWhiteHi folks, how hard would it be for me to create my own respository from yours?02:55
fsmithredthere are directions for that at the forum: dev1galaxy.org02:56
fsmithredat least a couple of threads02:56
DRWhitethanks, jsut htoguth I'd ask how hard it owuld be, I'lll look there then.02:58
fsmithredI don't think it's very difficult02:59
golinuxDRWhite: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt03:00
gnarfacedid that issue with apt-cacher-ng ever get fixed for devuan?03:19
gnarfaceDRWhite: it's probably worth noting that most people don't actually need a real mirror.  a caching proxy for apt is usually sufficient for most purposes03:20
gnarface(and takes a lot less disk space)03:20
gnarfacei liked apt-cacher-ng because it was easy to set up and also actually shows you statistics about how much bandwidth it saved you03:21
cirdani used to use a twisted based mirror long ago03:44
cirdani forget what it was03:44
cirdanwas basicly a cache03:44
DRWhitegnarface: I don't want a simple proxy. I want to set it for that.03:50
cirdanset what for what03:52
DRWhiteSet my PC to use that as the repository03:53
cirdansure03:53
cirdanhttps://wiki.debian.org/AptCacherNg03:53
DRWhiteNot going to use a cacher.03:53
cirdanwell with that one you set the cacher to use the proxy and it holds all your downlaoded packages03:53
cirdanDRWhite: how much storage/bandwidth do you plan on setting aside for this?03:54
DRWhiteI'll be synchronising the server manually with the upstream (Devuan)03:54
cirdanright03:54
cirdanDRWhite: how much storage/bandwidth do you plan on setting aside for this?03:54
DRWhiteThen I'll be using that server to update all the ones I want to update03:54
DRWhitethat way when I reinstall I just get it from the local.03:54
gnarfaceDRWhite: so, if you just want to mirror the Devuan packages that's completely accomplishable but you'll still be slurping packages from Debian's mirrors in that case.  i fyou want a full mirror of the whole distro including the Debian-original stuff, the size is a bit prohibitive from a disk space perspective.  that's really the difficult part.03:54
cirdanyeah that's what the proxy does03:54
cirdanit saves the packages you install locally so you only have to fetch them once03:55
DRWhiteI'll be fetching from DEVUAN, yes.03:55
cirdanDRWhite: it'll be faster to not mirror it then03:55
DRWhiteAs for Disk requirements... a few GB is easy enough.03:55
cirdanyou can use lftp to mirror the devuan site03:55
cirdana few gb? haha umm03:55
DRWhiteI'll just sync it.03:55
gnarfaceDRWhite: *TERABYTES*03:55
cirdanyeah go buy an 8tb drive for the mirror's use only ;)03:56
cirdanand spend a few days to populate it03:56
cirdanthen a few hours/day to update it03:56
DRWhiteWon't take up 8 Terabytes.03:56
cirdannot today03:57
DRWhiteIt might if I'm grabbing every mirror and every version and everything of everything.03:57
DRWhiteWhen I need what I need, I sync that repo.03:57
DRWhiteThen I can use that repo.03:57
DRWhitedownload once, use many times.03:57
DRWhiteIf I want the PC to use only the remote repos, then I can set it up for that.03:58
cirdanhttps://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt03:58
DRWhiteBut I want it inside my local network.03:58
DRWhitenot running as a proxy persae.03:58
cirdanthats exactly what the proxy does. you set your local machines to use that and it gets the package you want if it doesn't have it already downloaded03:58
cirdanit's local03:58
DRWhiteBecause if I set up as a proxy, it still goes off to the main server and checks if it has updated. that will still consume a lot of bandwidth.03:58
DRWhiteI don't want to do that.03:59
DRWhiteI want it local and only local and only to check for updates when I want it to03:59
cirdanyou are not thinking clearly. the packages take up terabytes03:59
cirdannot gigs03:59
gnarfaceDRWhite: i'm not actually sure what the size is.  i'm not sure you can keep it under 1TB even if you only mirror one architecture03:59
DRWhiteI'm thining more clearly than you it seems, maybe because I know what I want, and you do not.03:59
cirdanyou think you know what you want. it's the frustrating part03:59
DRWhitegnarface: I'll only be getting the main.03:59
DRWhitecirdan: I don't just THINK I knokw what I want, I actually DO KNOW what I want AND NEED04:00
cirdanyou can't easily just pick and chose which packages you want to mirror, and which versions04:00
cirdanand then you have to manually create the packages db for your clients04:00
DRWhitegnarface: Just need to get the repos I need so that I can keep it all only local for my many many installs.04:00
cirdanDRWhite: what is the problem with using the proxy? it does *all* the work for you and keeps the bandwidth to a minium. and used space04:01
gnarfaceDRWhite: hmm. well in that case the issue you'll probably run into is just making the mirror software do that.  as i recall from having this conversation in #debian a few years ago, the standard mirror setup is pretty much all-or-nothing and there's no existing solutions in the wild to make it do partials04:01
DRWhitegnarface: I don't want to have the system checking the remote (because of being a proxy) every time I want a package. It's just rhediculous when you are doing 300 installs a day.04:01
cirdanthe system doesn't check the remote though04:01
DRWhitegnarface: Hmm, okay, I'll have to make one then.04:01
cirdanthe proxy does. and it caches the answer!04:01
gnarfaceDRWhite: (maybe that's changed, it's been a couple years)04:01
DRWhitegnarface: I think I have the solution for that. Is simple enough to accomplish.04:02
DRWhitegnarface: lol, true that. I'llhave a peek anyway and see if ther eis. Because if it is an ALL OR NOTHING situation, then I'lll just have to take it all.04:02
cirdanif you are doing 300 installs per day you should just image the first install04:02
DocScrutinizer05dudes, play nice!04:02
gnarfaceDRWhite: if you *only* back up main, and *only* back up amd64 and i386 you can still have a usable mirror.  the trick then is just making it smart enough to do that, and i can't help.  (some packages are "all" architectures)04:03
cirdanDocScrutinizer05: just trying to save him from himself!04:03
cirdananyway i found the mirror instructions: https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt04:03
DocScrutinizer05that's ok, but please polite04:03
cirdanhrm. files. doesn't have ftp running?04:04
DRWhitegnarface: exactly, and that's why I'd do it manually, because I don't need EVERYTHING, and jsut an rsync would do the trick.04:04
DocScrutinizer05umm, ^^^ seems to be for file mirror, not repo04:05
DocScrutinizer05files != repo04:06
cirdanhmm it says release archives are there04:06
gnarfaceDRWhite: not to take you off your plan but have you heard of refracta?04:06
gnarfaceDRWhite: it might be a shorter path to what you want to accomplish04:06
cirdanah images04:06
cirdanstill, would think you could ftp the isos...04:06
cirdanso stable has ascii, ascii-security, ascii-updates you might want local04:09
cirdanthere's also backports04:09
cirdanoh yeah. pool (where the debs live) isn't seperated by dist, but by package name04:12
cirdanlftp can run du on it to let you know what you'll need for storage04:12
cirdanstill in the L's04:13
cirdananyway, please look at https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~bloch/acng/ as it does exactly what you want in the end. you can even give it a list of packages to pre fetch for you. local machines go through the proxy which only gets new packages when they change upstream. if you get enough you basically have a full mirror auto updated04:17
cirdannight all04:18
furrywolfI missed the start of this conversation, but I've just been rsyncing the .debs around.04:19
furrywolfI copy all new files in /var/cache/apt/archives/ to a usb drive, then back onto whatever box I'm about to update or install things on04:20
gnarfacei like that solution.  it's elemental and doesn't require new functionality.04:22
fsmithredcould even make that an nfs share04:22
fsmithredI want to know how to do 300 installs in a day04:25
furrywolfit's easy.  just hire about ten helpers.04:25
fsmithredoh, right04:25
furrywolfif all the installs are similar, cloning is probably your best bet04:35
XenguyDoes puppet still exist?04:36
furrywolfspeaking of cloning, what's the easiest way to switch to a new hard drive these days?  dd then resize the partitions?04:55
buZzi tend to just make tarball of /home and reinstall the rest04:56
furrywolfthat's a lot more work04:57
buZzkeeps things fresh and exciting :P04:57
furrywolfit's a linuxcnc box running hardware.  I don't want it fresh or exciting.04:57
buZzboo :P04:58
buZzthen just dd away04:58
furrywolfstill waiting on the ide to sata adapter...04:58
buZzi just dug up a 1GB CF card to give to someone trying to pimp out a 486 at the hackerspace :P05:00
furrywolfthis is a toughbook with only ide...  want to put a 480GB SSD in it, that's sata...  yay adapters!05:01
buZz:) they do make pata ssds though, dont they?05:02
buZzyeah stuff like https://www.ebay.com/p/64gb-KingSpec-2-5-inch-Pata-ide-SSD-Solid-State-Disk-MLC-Flash-Sm2236-Controller/225488932405:02
furrywolfonly small ones05:03
furrywolfalso, this is what I have spare.  :P05:03
furrywolfadapter is much cheaper than new drive.05:03
buZzah that helps yeah ;)05:03
buZzin my sony vaio i put a 1.8" zif pata ssd :P05:03
buZzreally made it fly05:03
furrywolfI have a 480GB samsung gathering dust...05:04
buZzyeah you just mentioned ;)05:04
furrywolfthe 120GB spinny drive in it now is too slow, too small, and possibly not always working at power on...05:04
furrywolf(sometimes on resume from hibernate it simply fails during the restore process, and I'm not convinced the problem isn't a drive error)05:05
buZzsmartctl not showing anything?05:05
furrywolfdunno, haven't checked.  I want a ssd anyway.  :P05:06
buZz^_^05:06
furrywolfand more space, so I don't need to keep things on a microsd card stuck in the back...05:06
buZzno need to justify it to me :P05:06
buZzi'm running 2x samsung 850 evo's in raid0 , just because i dont have PCIe 3.0 for best M2 NVMe speeds ;)05:07
furrywolfraid0, eww.05:07
furrywolfmore like raid -1, since one drive failing kills two drives of data.  :P05:08
buZzmore like yolo05:08
buZzits just a workstation anyway, if the disks crash i just need to reinstall devuan and restore /home from most recent backup :)05:08
furrywolfin any case, with an old (pentium M) IDE-only laptop, there's only so much you can do by boosting disk speeds...  one ssd will be plenty.  :P05:08
buZzsure, but if you had another free ata port , you could get double the speeds ;)05:09
furrywolfsome people put a second hard drive in the optical bay....  but I don't see the point.05:09
buZzprobably uses more power anyway05:10
buZzif there's even batterylife left :)05:10
furrywolfabout six hours.  :P05:10
furrywolftoughbook++05:10
buZznice, what production year on the battery?05:10
furrywolfdunno05:11
furrywolfit's not here to check05:11
buZzbusy cnc'ing? :)05:11
furrywolfI've yet to actually have a toughbook battery fail...  genuine panasonic cells seem quite good.05:12
buZzwe had a bunch of toughbooks at my old work, they did end up dying after ~1000-2000 charges like typical laptop batteries05:12
buZzcycles*05:12
furrywolfpanasonic makes almost every part in the toughbooks, except the major silicon...  yay vertical integration.  heh.05:13
furrywolfI don't cycle them that often.  usually they spend most of their time on the ac adapter.05:14
buZzyeah, matsushita kotobuki is alright in my book :P05:14
buZz(official name of panasonic)05:14
buZzor, original05:14
furrywolfone of their advertising campaigns was basically "made in japan with no chinese components"...05:15
buZzthey're a proud nation alright05:16
furrywolfalas, they've since backed down on that, and now outsource to china just like everyone else.  because profit.05:17
furrywolfthe toughbooks are still mostly made in japan, but most other panasonic stuff is china these days.05:19
DRWhitegnarface: I've heard about refracta before, but that still isn't what I want or need I don't think. Unless it has progressed a fair bit since I last looked at it, which was a while ago, so I'll take another look. thanks for the reminder about it. But I still think that it won't be right for what I'm after.06:16
DRWhiteDoes nayone here know how to get their password for http://dev1galaxy.org/ ?06:17
DRWhiteI've tried resettings several times.06:17
DRWhiteI click the link, then go to login wiht the password that they have given me, and it keeps telling me that it's wrong.06:18
rrqDRWhite: pm06:29
terraanyone able to install gvfs on beowulf? Seems that it can't be installed due to the gvfs-daemons' systemd dependencies.08:55
terragvfs needed for removable media support for file managers like Thunar and PCManFM08:56
KatolaZterra: stick with the ascii packages atm08:58
KatolaZwe will be fixing beowulf soon08:59
terraKatolaZ: I was installing ascii before but decided to try beowulf first time yesterday.09:04
KatolaZterra: answered your question09:05
terraI installed it from scratch and configured for my needs then this situation came up after 3 hours I spent.09:05
KatolaZbeowulf is not ready for use on the desktop with all the bells and whistles09:05
terraKatolaZ: I know.09:06
Centurion_Dangvfs depends on libsytsemd0 last time I looked... libelogind0 also fills the role... that said I haven't looked at beowulf or unstable versions.10:15
terraCenturion_Dan: Can you update the gvfs packages to drop systemd dependencies?10:42
Centurion_Danlibsystemd0 is relatively inert... there are no direct deps on systemd11:06
xrogaanpatch your xorg peeps11:44
xrogaan https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2018-1466511:46
KatolaZterra: just keep ascii repos enabled, and apt should be able to find elogind and libelogind12:30
KatolaZsorry12:30
KatolaZlibpam-systemd12:30
KatolaZwhich is in the dep chain of udisks212:30
terraCenturion_Dan: I disabled recommendations at apt.conf, so whatever the reason is, that should be pushed as a direct dependency , probably by udisks213:07
Centurion_Danok.. I'll be working on unstable and beowulf stuff in the next few days.13:10
cirdanyou can also do cf-ide or sdcard-ide13:15
cirdan:)13:15
cirdanfor old stuff13:15
Centurion_Dancirdan: ??13:42
cirdansorry screen was on old scrollback where ppl were talking abou tupgrading old machines like a toughbook14:10
cirdani use irssi + screen so it happens :)14:10
jordilawhen trying to 'tar xvf myfile.tar.xz ' i get  ' tar (child): xz: Cannot exec: No such file or directory'  answer ... what am i missing ? Some basics ... probably ?14:11
cirdando you have xz installed?14:12
fsmithredjordila, you're missing "J"14:12
fsmithredand maybe xz-utils14:12
jordilaxz-utils are installed.14:13
fsmithredxvJf14:13
cirdanfor a more universal way try xz -d myfile.tar.xz | tar -xvf14:13
KatolaZjordila: man tar14:15
KatolaZ:)14:15
cirdangenerally I read "xz: Cannot exec: No such file or directory" as no xz in the path it's looking in14:16
cirdanwhich is why i suggested seperate commands to check14:16
jordilafsmithred: when 'tar xvJf myfile.tar.xz ' i get  ' tar (child): xz: Cannot exec: No such file or directory'  answer ...14:27
fsmithredwhat about 'ls myfile.tar.xz'?14:27
fsmithredI always use -xvJf but I'm not sure it matters14:28
jordilacirdan:  when 'xz -d myfile.tar.xz | tar -xvf ' i get 'bash: xz: command not found | tar: option requires an argument -- 'f'14:31
jordila'14:31
fsmithredf wants a file name, but you're giving tar standard output instead14:32
cirdanah yeah14:32
fsmithredyou shouldn't need the f there14:32
cirdanmy bad14:32
fsmithredbut where is xz?14:33
cirdanbut the first part is the main part14:33
cirdanxz: command not found14:33
fsmithred'which xz'14:33
fsmithredor 'whereis xz'14:33
cirdanmine is xz: /usr/bin/xz /usr/share/man/man1/xz.1.gz14:33
fsmithredyeah, I'd expect it in /usr/bin/14:33
cousin_luigiGreetings.21:53
cousin_luigiI've only recently installed devuan in a vm and for some reason I can't install the package rcconf.21:53
cousin_luigiIs it blacklisted for some reason?21:54
Centurion_Dancousin_luigi: pastebin the output.22:09
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: https://paste.opensuse.org/04dfa0b422:11
Centurion_Danpackage doesn't exist...22:11
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/rcconf_3.2.html22:12
Centurion_Danwhat release and pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list22:12
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: https://pastebin.com/raw/ZF5xn8Kt22:17
Centurion_Danok... delete /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list ... it's superfluous for a start22:19
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: no change22:20
Centurion_Danthe in /etc/apt/sources.list change http://packages.devuan.org to http://deb.devuan.org22:20
Centurion_Danand do apt update22:20
Centurion_Danthen try installing rcconf again.22:20
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: no change22:21
cousin_luigiCan you see that package on your system?22:22
Centurion_Danpastebin of the "apt update" and "apt install rcconf"??22:23
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: https://pastebin.com/raw/rn2xBQW922:24
xrogaanthere should be a small utility to check whether or not a package is blacklisted.22:25
Centurion_Danoh... your /etc/apt/sources.list is missing the line:22:26
cousin_luigixrogaan: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt not listed here22:26
Centurion_Dandeb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan ascii main22:26
Centurion_Danhold on...22:26
cousin_luigiCenturion_Dan: Actually, no.22:26
cousin_luigiThat line is there.22:26
cousin_luigiIs it in some extra repository perchance?22:27
Centurion_Danshould be deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main22:27
cousin_luigiIn addition to that or instead of that?22:27
Centurion_Danin addition to deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main22:28
cousin_luigiexcellent, that did the trick22:28
cousin_luigiTYVM22:28
Centurion_Danyour welcome...22:28
cousin_luigiWhat's the difference btw?22:29
cousin_luigiAnd doesn't devuan have the main/updates distinction?22:30
Centurion_Danthat line your missing was for the normal 'ascii' packages repo22:30
Centurion_Dan'ascii-security' is for security updates only22:30
xrogaanthis one exists too deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-updates main non-free contrib22:30
Centurion_Danthat's for post release updated packages22:31
Centurion_Danones that aren't security critical.. and they usually move across to the stable repo for a point release..22:32
cousin_luigiWell, that's like debian22:32
cousin_luigign22:39

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