libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2018-11-05

ArchiFleKs/!\ ATTN: Τһіs channeⅼ has mⲟⅴed to irc.freenഠdᥱ.ᥒеt #/joiᥒ /!\00:28
MinceRSPAMALARM01:08
DocScrutinizer05honestly?01:08
MinceRyeah01:08
MinceRthis time the only activity this window had was a line of spam01:08
MinceRand i saw another earlier01:09
DocScrutinizer05so two spams today?01:09
MinceRno, 1 spam today01:09
MinceRit's 1:0901:09
DocScrutinizer05alternative: you go +O (permanent op) to catch those poor lads who are not authenticated but are innocent users coming here to ask devuan questions01:10
DocScrutinizer05the final goal is to keep the channel as welcoming and user friendly as possible01:12
MinceRi could massvoice regularly, i already do so on 2 other channels01:12
DocScrutinizer05or that01:12
MinceRmight be a bit noisy here though, as there are 244 unvoiced users :)01:12
DocScrutinizer05well, no, that doesn't help either since it doesn't catch those who join in and ask a question, not realizing they are +q01:13
DocScrutinizer05and noisy is bad. 2 one-liner spams per day are less noisy than all that mass-voicing etc01:14
MinceRok01:14
MinceRwhat if one of the newbs we want to welcome believes the spammer? :>01:15
DocScrutinizer05meh01:15
DocScrutinizer05trying to answer this honestly, the damage done by them believing it is no worse than them thinking the whole channel simply ignores them01:17
DocScrutinizer05last one I can spot searching for ATTN:  [2018-11-01 07:47:04] <rhorama3> ᜵!⧵ ATTN:01:19
MinceRthey might be using homoglyphs for that part too01:21
MinceRas they do for the rest01:21
DocScrutinizer05hmmm     [2018-11-04 15:02:02] <rasb_> ∕﹗\ АTTN01:21
MinceR05 002813 < ArchiFleKs> /!\ ATTN:01:21
DocScrutinizer05I still think up to maybe two spams per day are tolerable01:22
DocScrutinizer05even 301:22
MinceRi guess so01:22
MinceRbut having 0/day is just so tempting01:22
DocScrutinizer05if it wouldn't come with collateral damage01:23
gnarfaceanyone here using timidity alot notice any recent changes to how it ties up the soundcard by default?03:04
lem-fr26/!\ ATΤⲚ⁚ Ꭲһiѕ cһɑᥒneⅼ haѕ mo⋁eⅾ to irⅽ.freenoⅾᥱ․ᥒet #/јⲟiᥒ ᜵!\03:26
nacelletotes legit , i'm sure...04:31
syme2⧸︕\ ΑTTⲚ: This channel hɑѕ ⅿⲟvеd to irⅽ.frеenοde.nᥱt #/join /ⵑ\07:58
refp24/!\ AΤTN: Thiѕ chɑnnᥱl hɑs ⅿovеԁ to іrc․freеᥒoⅾe.net #/joⅰᥒ /ⵑ⧹08:18
MinceRis it massvoice time? :>09:29
DocScrutinizer05massop time09:29
DocScrutinizer05lemme check something09:30
DocScrutinizer05meh09:31
DocScrutinizer05hail IRC command syntax orthogonality :-S09:32
MinceR:)09:34
DocScrutinizer05anyway MinceR please if you wouldn't mind, stay +o to catch the poor lads who come here without being authenticated09:34
MinceRok09:34
MinceRhere goes nothing09:34
DocScrutinizer05ohmygod09:35
DocScrutinizer05no THATS annoying09:35
DocScrutinizer05now*09:35
MinceRit only needs to be done once though :)09:36
DocScrutinizer05and almost completely pointless too09:36
MinceRwhy?09:36
MinceRspambots don't wait to be voiced09:36
DocScrutinizer05users neither09:36
xrogaan#opennic kick people who talks too soon.09:37
MinceRusers should learn irc skills :>09:37
xrogaan"Woops, you just entered the channel. You should wait a bit to start to talk."09:37
MinceRkicking after the talking's done is too late, as then we'll see the first line of the spam, as we did lately09:37
MinceRSigyn caught the spammers, but not before they've sent the first line09:37
xrogaannot if you direct the sentences to the op for the unvoiced09:38
DocScrutinizer05#and you don't catch the users that just joined channel09:38
xrogaanit's the +z mode09:38
xrogaanz (reduced moderation) | The effects of +b, +q, and +m are relaxed. For each message, if that message would normally be blocked by one of these modes, it is instead sent to channel operators (+o).09:39
MinceRdoes Sigyn tolerate being opped?09:39
DocScrutinizer05yeah, please explain it to MinceR, seems he's not aware we got it09:39
xrogaanso they have a bot who receive everything non-voiced send09:39
xrogaanand if it's too soon, it kicks them.09:39
MinceRyeah, i wasn't aware of it09:39
MinceRand i didn't see Sigyn being opped either09:39
DocScrutinizer05+z is the reason for sigjen +o09:40
gnarfacei'm already authenticated though, i shouldn't need a voice09:40
DocScrutinizer05^^^!!09:40
xrogaanspambots can auth too09:40
MinceRsure, but /voice -yes doesn't know who's authenticated and it's easier this way :)09:40
MinceRwe'll cross that bridge when we get there09:41
DocScrutinizer05huh?09:41
MinceRplus having to auth gives ircops another chance to intercept them09:41
xrogaandon't care, got a voice.09:41
gnarfacehave these spam bots been authenticating? i thought that was their one weakness09:41
MinceRthey haven't09:41
DocScrutinizer05no09:41
DocScrutinizer05but we don't want +vvvv spam in channel either09:42
MinceRmaintaining voiced status is a lot less spammy09:42
DocScrutinizer05particularly since those msgs can't even get ignored in most clients09:42
DocScrutinizer05aha09:43
DocScrutinizer05I've set +q $~a which worked excellent so far. Now you say >>maintaining voiced status is a lot less spammy<< which is not exactly what I see here09:44
DocScrutinizer05it spammed 2 screenfull of shit09:44
gnarfacei'm pretty sure there's a way to do that so the messages go back in PM instead of in channel09:44
gnarfacei could be wrong09:45
DocScrutinizer05no09:45
DocScrutinizer05and again, it's pretty much pointless09:46
DocScrutinizer05IOW prolly nothing changed at all by this mass +vvvv09:46
MinceRexcept for letting unauthenticated non-spambots talk09:47
DocScrutinizer05the channel is +zq §~a09:47
DocScrutinizer05and I asked you to stay +o to handle exactly that09:47
DocScrutinizer05thought you understood09:48
MinceRand i did exactly that09:48
DocScrutinizer05no09:48
DocScrutinizer05you spammed channel with a evidently pointless mass +vvvv09:49
DocScrutinizer05evidently since I've not seen a single post of any of the users you just +v'ed, when I was +o during the last weeks09:49
DocScrutinizer05not of any user that suffered the +q09:50
DocScrutinizer05so that mass +vvvv won't have any effect09:50
DocScrutinizer05except spamming the channel09:50
MinceRit lets me voice all new users later with a simple command, after making sure they're not spambots09:51
DocScrutinizer05errwut?09:51
DocScrutinizer05please do NOT spam the channel by +v every user who joins. Many users have "hide join" for a reason, the >> *** MinceR sets mode: +vvvv jaro...<< lines can't get ignored, and this is what made #freenode almost unbearable09:57
DocScrutinizer05I'll stay +o so I *see* unauthenticated unvoiced regular users' posts nevertheless. I asked you to help by also staying +o. If you don't want to, too bad. But please don't kill fire with nukes and spam the channel with mass voicing09:59
dethaThat. +v shouldn't be used to undo +q. Some channels have auto +v for ops so one can quickly see whom to bug (or things like #cisco where +v means you have a CCIE)10:09
DocScrutinizer05detha: it been used to tag official bots in here. So quite similar14:45
dethathat makes sense. this doesn't14:46
MinceRDocScrutinizer05: ok15:01
MinceRi can't promise that i will realize that a user who speaks is not identified though, as my client does not support the freenode protocol extension which puts that in the message15:02
DocScrutinizer05that's my problem as well :-)15:02
DocScrutinizer05anyway I can hover over the user in user list and see if an account is shown in popup15:03
DocScrutinizer05so when a user posts a question and I realize nobody takes notice, I gonna check15:03
DocScrutinizer05alternative: /ns info <USER>15:04
DocScrutinizer05apropos extensions: I heard of those only recently. Which clients would support IRC-V3?15:06
MinceRwhois reveals it too15:10
nemoDocScrutinizer05: https://ircv3.net/software/clients.html ?15:11
DocScrutinizer05nemo: great, thanks!15:11
nemoI've been watching it on and off for a while. rooting for IRCv3 just as general desire to have more consensus protocols as opposed to walled gardens15:13
DocScrutinizer05>> <e> you could look at <https://ircv3.net/software/clients.html>. of the features in that table, we support account-notify, extended-join, multi-prefix, and sasl v3.1 (i think) and we will soon(TM) support monitor, away-notify and chghost <<15:27
DocScrutinizer05now I have something to chew on, to figure if I even want any of those extensions FN supports and my client doesn't15:29
DocScrutinizer05prolly I should find a nice client made in python and tweak it to my liking15:30
* DocScrutinizer05 searches since ages for a client that allows to assign alias nicks and remarks/qualifiers to users15:32
DocScrutinizer05and post-logging ignore, aka display-ignore: simply hide/unhide a user by a mouseclick15:33
DocScrutinizer05even such simple stuff like "scroll back to last highlight" - I see by colored chan tab there been a highlight but NFC when, so I need to manually scan all backscroll to spot it15:40
DocScrutinizer05"/hide ~$highlight"  :-D15:41
MinceRwell, kvirc has a user database15:44
MinceRnot sure if it was ever used for anything other than ignore, though15:44
DocScrutinizer05sounds useful15:44
* DocScrutinizer05 puts item on todo list: "check kiwiirc"15:45
DocScrutinizer05webirc client, ohmy15:46
* DocScrutinizer05 tries hard to believe in "web browser is just another specialized interpreter"15:47
MinceRweb browser is a wonderful way of making programs more bloated15:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah15:53
nemoI'm using irssi, but nowhere near "latest dev"15:53
nemobut if there was a compelling reason I'd install it15:53
DocScrutinizer05irssi is too terminal15:53
nemohate restarting my irssi sessions though15:53
nemo♥ tmux15:54
DocScrutinizer05err, could somebody please translate this to english for me:  >>Servers - Control which servers kiwi users can connect to. It's your network.<<  https://kiwiirc.com/15:56
* DocScrutinizer05 scratches head15:57
MinceRwhen you run a kiwiirc on your webserver, you can configure it to specify what ircd-s it is allowed to connect to15:57
nemoum. I guess the per..15:57
nemoyeah15:57
MinceRor something like that15:57
DocScrutinizer05oooh15:57
DocScrutinizer05MinceR: ta!15:57
MinceRnp15:57
* DocScrutinizer05 is so totally unused to the concept of webapps15:59
DocScrutinizer05still not "your network" ;-P16:00
nemoDocScrutinizer05: you're not gonna run an open relay right?16:00
DocScrutinizer05you bet I won't16:01
nemokk. then doesn't really matter16:01
DocScrutinizer05but maybe devuan wants to? ;-D16:02
nemohm.  well. presumably devuan would at best want easy access to like #devuan from website for support right16:02
nemoat that point might as well use the freenode web client16:02
buZznemo: i got a compelling reason for 'current dev irssi' version \o/16:02
nemobuZz: oh?16:03
buZznemo: they made OTR support native16:03
buZz:)16:03
nemoah. hm.16:03
DocScrutinizer05I for one would rather run a local apache to load that kiwiirc from, than using this webirc thing hosted by any 3rd party16:03
nemobuZz: you know, I've used OTR exactly once in 20 years16:03
nemomostly just to try it out16:03
nemobuZz: but I guess if I wanted to hold a truly private conversation on freenode it'd be essential16:04
buZznp nemo ;) i really disliked the OTR plugin externally16:04
buZzand am really happy they made it native, it was a compelling reason to me :)16:04
nemoDocScrutinizer05: well... if it's just to relay folks to freenode, using their client kinda makes it their problem16:04
DocScrutinizer05sure16:05
buZzkiwiirc isnt foss, is it?16:05
nemoDocScrutinizer05: if there's another bot attack or whatnot and they start banning various things they'll probably make sure their client works16:05
DocScrutinizer05buZz: must be foss, it's sponsored by PIA16:05
buZzoh, it is16:05
buZzDocScrutinizer05: ROFL16:05
buZzwtf nonsense did you just utter :P16:05
nemoDocScrutinizer05: during last attack I set the voice restrictions to all registered and all freenode webchat, everyone else needed to be explicitly voiced16:05
nemohaven't changed it yet actually. wonder if the attack is over16:05
buZz'kiwiirc.com' is owned by that mtgox dude16:05
buZzwho also bought PIA and freenode16:06
buZzhas nothing to do with foss ;)16:06
buZzjust monies16:06
nemobuZz: uh wow. freenode got bought? I kinda missed that16:06
buZznemo: yeah a year ago or something16:06
buZzaround when the spam started16:06
nemohuh. got a link?16:06
nemoer. spam started just 2 months ago no?16:06
nemoI mean the serious spam16:06
buZzno16:06
nemothere were some minor ones prior16:06
buZznope16:06
DocScrutinizer05buZz: sorry I have to disagree, those are my colleagues16:07
buZzDocScrutinizer05: i can see how that would cloud yr judgement yes16:07
nemobuZz: got a link to the purchase?16:07
buZzsure, 1mom16:07
buZzhttps://freenode.net/news/pia-fn16:07
buZzhere's the actual owner ; https://londontrustmedia.com/16:07
buZz(who also owns PIA)16:08
DocScrutinizer05incorrect afaik, This is not the *owner* of FN16:08
DocScrutinizer05FN is self-owned16:08
nemoyeah. was gonna say16:08
buZz1mom16:09
nemoalthough, you know, in same way that people critique mozilla getting 95% of funding from google16:09
nemopresumably money clouds one's choices16:09
DocScrutinizer05I got a view from inside on that and I think here it doesn't16:10
buZzhttps://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/officers <--16:10
buZzLEE, Andrew16:10
buZzCorrespondence address16:10
buZz1550 Wewatta St., 2nd Floor #3152, Denver, Colerado, Usa, 8020216:10
DocScrutinizer05yeah, Andrew Lee I chatted with a 10h ago16:11
buZzDocScrutinizer05: and you know what company he works at?16:11
DocScrutinizer05he doesn't "work at a company" anymore. He has enough money to simply sponsor stuff16:12
buZzright ;)16:12
buZzthats what ownership means, buying stuff16:12
buZzif he was a sponsor, he wouldnt be on freenode board ;)16:13
DocScrutinizer05I don't see your complaints16:13
buZzthats ok?16:13
buZzi wasnt complaining at all16:13
DocScrutinizer05spoiler: LTM/PIA also sponsors Neo900 and even partially / subproject of devuan16:16
DocScrutinizer05and there's a massive campaign inside PIA to FOSS everything they have16:17
DocScrutinizer05Andrew feels like IRC saved his life and he wants to give back16:20
DocScrutinizer05https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/fight-control-andrew-lee-open-sourcing-pia16:22
buZzthey also sponsor an attack on ICANN's authority ;)16:24
buZzthat 'handshake' stuff16:24
DocScrutinizer05handshake, yes16:31
DocScrutinizer05the details are beyond my paygrade, despite me being a part of it16:32
buZzvery transparant ;)16:32
DocScrutinizer05hmm?16:32
DocScrutinizer05I simply don't have the time to acquire expertise in all that stuff16:33
buZzthats cool16:33
DocScrutinizer05got other fish to fry16:33
DocScrutinizer05e.g. last 24h we discussed how tro tackle threats to user privacy and integrity from that cesspool that is Android ecosystem16:37
buZz:) i decided a while ago that people who want privacy shouldnt carry always-on radios that run proprietary software on them16:42
buZzso, just have a deskphone now16:42
DocScrutinizer05valid approach16:42
buZzi dont see android or ios or windowsmobileCE specifically to blame, more than baseband/simcard software16:43
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's the "free as in beer" mindset16:43
buZzwell i do like beer16:43
buZzbut i'm fine to pay for it16:44
DocScrutinizer05baseband is the domain of evil, but you don't _have_ to surrender. Apps otoh which want to get access to your location to enable you play fart sounds... baseband totally unrelated16:45
buZzDocScrutinizer05: you dont? you know any open baseband&simcard platform?16:45
buZzall i know is osmocombb , which doesnt pertain the simcard part16:46
buZzand afaik osmocombb isnt feature rich enough for smartphone usage16:46
DocScrutinizer05no, there isn't and basically can't be. But that's what Neo900 is all about: find other better ways to deal with this situation16:46
buZzalso, only supports 1 ancient platform16:46
buZzthe TI Calypso16:46
DocScrutinizer05forget osmocom, it isn't meant and will never be suited for solvinf that problem16:47
buZzright, so i dont see any reason to trust any other baseband :P16:47
buZzin pyra (and i assume neo900) the baseband power can be completely cut16:48
DocScrutinizer05your baseband needs to get certified, and a true FOSS implementation that's not locked down by "secure bootloader" can't get that cert16:48
buZzyeah exactly, so 'dont use FOSS, its for your safety'16:49
DocScrutinizer05you don't trust the baseband, that's the whole point16:49
buZzthat, to me, isnt a trustable platform, and baseband can just get OTA flashes from providers16:49
nemobuZz: hm. an other-wise FOSS device couldn't keep the baseband sufficiently jailed?16:50
DocScrutinizer05please take that to #neo900 or #oipenmoko or even #maemo16:50
buZznemo: all communications go through baseband, it can access it all16:50
buZz(at least, all mobile)16:50
DocScrutinizer05sandboxing the whole modem is the key16:50
nemobuZz: I assume everything that's not encrypted is monitored.16:50
DocScrutinizer05you can't evaluate a complete 100MB code size baseband firmware anyway16:51
buZzDocScrutinizer05: so we should just give up? :D16:51
DocScrutinizer05yes, in this channel prlease just give up16:51
buZzgee dude16:51
DocScrutinizer05it's quite OT in here16:51
buZzsorry you're so annoyed , i didnt mean to16:52
DocScrutinizer05and too complex to be tolerable as OT topic in here16:52
DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9114216:52
DocScrutinizer05http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm16:53
buZzi dont get wtf the relevance of those links are :P16:53
DocScrutinizer05that's your problem16:53
buZzDocScrutinizer05: we dont discuss problems?16:54
buZzkeep in mind, you started this topic ;)16:55
DocScrutinizer05those links point you into a direction where you could learn about the problems you mentioned and how to deal with them the right way16:55
buZzi just see neo900 promotion16:55
DocScrutinizer05anyway privacy threats in Android are basically completely unrelated to baseband topic16:56
buZzprobably yeah, thats why you arent using it, right?16:56
buZzno need to use something you dont trust16:56
DocScrutinizer05huh?16:57
buZzoh, you -are- using android?16:57
DocScrutinizer05now THIS is totally pointless to discuss16:57
buZzeh ok16:57
buZz:P16:57
buZzyou keep starting topics you dont want to talk about , you do realize this? :P16:58
DocScrutinizer05aha16:58
DocScrutinizer05I explain to you a 4th time now: baseband is unrelated to 99.99% of privacy threats seen in smartphone ecosystems17:00
buZzcool17:01
DocScrutinizer05the threats get introduced by roiogue apps17:01
buZzi agree, its a horrible ecosystem17:01
buZzbut , its built on a shady underlining tech, thats what i said17:01
buZzeven just replacing entire android with some linux distro, doesnt make the hardware itself more trustable17:02
DocScrutinizer05and I already told you the way to sanitite that shady tech is sandboxing, not baseband firmware audit17:02
buZzsure, but you cant sandbox 'your only link to outside world'17:03
buZzit'll -always- be OTA flashable by 'not you'17:03
DocScrutinizer05so what?17:03
DocScrutinizer05but please, this is OT in here17:03
buZzso, it cant be trustable17:03
DocScrutinizer05particularly since you're spinning in circles. A 3 lines up I told you that auditing (trusting) baseband isn't the goal since not feasible17:05
buZzi dont see 'its difficult' as any reason to give up desires -ever-17:06
buZzhell, if it was, neo900 would never finish, right? :)17:07
DocScrutinizer05first OT warning17:07
buZzgeez dude17:08
buZzyou start topics and then attack ppl for offtopic17:08
DocScrutinizer05postscriptum re Andrew Lee: https://irc.com/19:13
buZzDocScrutinizer05: what does that have to do with devuan?19:59
buZzi wonder why he never mentions he was behind mtgox though20:00
DocScrutinizer05it is a postscriptum providing the link for a previous discussion >><buZz> 'kiwiirc.com' is owned by that mtgox dude - who also bought PIA and freenode - has nothing to do with foss   <DocScrutinizer05> Andrew feels like IRC saved his life and he wants to give back<<20:02
buZzright, i heard that narrative prior20:03
buZz-i- would be very happy if IRC would -not- turn into a VC platform :P20:03
DocScrutinizer05indeed20:04
buZzwhich does seem to be his plan20:04
DocScrutinizer05no, from what I hear in chats with him, it's definitely not20:04
buZz> IRC Ventures (VC/Incubation on IRC!)20:04
buZz?20:04
buZzor that gambling idea > IRC Gaming (We're going to have literally hundreds of thousands in cash prizes!)20:05
KatolaZBTW all this stuff it quite OT20:05
buZz<320:05
KatolaZjust my 2 cents20:05
DocScrutinizer05I think a lot of this is a tad fuzzy and not very precisely specified20:05
DocScrutinizer05yet?20:05
DocScrutinizer05KatolaZ: it is20:06
buZzthats why you dug it up again :P20:06
DocScrutinizer05KatolaZ: it went OT when discussing who owns kiwiirc20:06
DocScrutinizer05buZz: you see PM?20:13
DocScrutinizer05icebreaker: please authenticate to nickserv, you're not visible to channel. See /topic20:14
DocScrutinizer05icebreaker: /msg nickserv ID <YOURPASSWORD>20:17
DocScrutinizer05I don't think so20:23
DocScrutinizer05/msg nickserv help identify20:24
plasma41I am personally against the practice of requiring nick registration in a support channel.20:24
DocScrutinizer05plasma41: yes, I tend to agree, but we need this to fight spam20:25
icebreakermsg nickserv help identify does not work, nothing happens when i type that, same with password20:26
plasma41DocScrutinizer05: Simply kicking unregistered nicks who post in the first five seconds after joining should take care of the majority of drive-by spammers.20:28
plasma41Hello icebreaker, how can we help you today?20:28
DocScrutinizer05plasma41: we're well trained to employ all applicable means20:28
DocScrutinizer05and freenode provides support like Sigyn20:29
plasma41Better a little spam slipping through, than adding barriers to those seeking help.20:30
DocScrutinizer05HelloInternet: use /whois HelloInternet20:31
DocScrutinizer05you should see >>[Whois] HelloInternet is logged in as .... <<20:31
DocScrutinizer05you also should see reply from nickserv on /msg nickserv help identify20:32
HelloInterneti think it works20:33
DocScrutinizer05you got voiced so for now it works20:33
HelloInternetcool thx20:33
DocScrutinizer05however you should sort your IRC client settings to get auto-authenticated on joining the network20:33
HelloInternetmy question was: Hello everyone! I just downloaded the latest Version of Qt from their website because i need version 5.11 for compiling another Programm. Now the Qt Installer made a Qt dir in my ~/Qt and put everything in there and not into /bin ... can i break something if i copy it manually and maybe replace existing files??20:34
HelloInterneti will try that20:34
DocScrutinizer05[2018-11-05 20:34:33] [Notice] -NickServ- HelloInternet has NOT COMPLETED registration verification20:34
DocScrutinizer05HelloInternet: you should have received an email which you need to process (send the command provided in there)20:35
DocScrutinizer05HelloInternet: note that registering and identifying (authenticating) are two different things. You registered your account but you didn't identify to it yet20:37
plasma41HelloInternet: I would recommend you install the qtbase5-dev package from Devuan Testing.20:37
DocScrutinizer05plasma41: you might find this informative: https://freenode.net/news/spamfilter20:56
DocScrutinizer05plasma41: during last 24h we tried to lift the +q ban on unauthenticated users. We might try agan eventually, didn't pan out today20:57
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I guess as long as (number of unregistered users posting here in vain) > (number of SPAM oneliners that slipped through serverside filtering), we should lift the ban. So, since >>[2018-11-05 21:03:15] <zaibitsu> which is the root pass for a new install? <<, trying it once more to -q $~a23:44

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