dsknb | hello | 07:30 |
---|---|---|
dsknb | sudo apt full-upgrade it occurred error (FATAL ERROR) | 07:32 |
fhuser59__ | hello | 08:32 |
amarsh04 | solved my KDE plasma issue - reinstalled package "plasma-workspace" and then not running prelink on its binaries | 09:09 |
furrymcgee | apt install vsftpd in a schroot fails to start the service: invoke-rc.d: could not determine current runlevel | 11:12 |
r3boot | yep, that's correct | 11:12 |
r3boot | Try installing it outside of chroot, or bind-mount the directories containing your runlevel info into your chroot | 11:13 |
furrymcgee | no its fine to do manually service start command after install, just curious because I expected schroot to do this | 11:28 |
r3boot | Oh check. yeah, You could try to bindmount /var/run into the chroot and get it working that way, but if it works manually as well, that's fine | 11:30 |
furrymcgee | yes thank you | 11:31 |
furrymcgee | runlevel is "N 2" after apt purge --yes --allow-remove-essential sysvinit-core && apt install runit-init/testing | 12:34 |
devoid_ | why hasnt libsystemd been eradicated yet | 13:23 |
devoid_ | i know of at least 1 (one) person who is extremely bothered by this | 13:23 |
r3boot | just out of curiosity, whats the problem with libsystemd? | 13:23 |
devoid_ | i dont know | 13:29 |
r3boot | why should it be eradicated then? | 13:29 |
devoid_ | i dont know | 13:29 |
devoid_ | but ill ask him when he gets back from afk | 13:30 |
r3boot | ok, that's fair | 13:30 |
devoid_ | =) | 13:30 |
r3boot | I really wonder how libsystemd got into devuan at all tbh, this being the non-systemd distro | 13:30 |
gnarface | it's just the runtime libraries | 13:37 |
gnarface | they're harmless (probably) | 13:37 |
gnarface | systemd itself isn't there | 13:37 |
gnarface | that's a different package from libsystemd | 13:37 |
r3boot | yeah, I know, hence I was wondering how it got into devuan :) | 13:37 |
r3boot | I assume it's because it's required b/c some dependency that came along from debian jessie, but I'd love to know the background on that | 13:38 |
gnarface | it's because those packages were already built that way | 13:38 |
gnarface | most the packages in devuan haven't been altered from debian | 13:38 |
gnarface | it would be a lot more work to actually edit and rebuild all the packages | 13:39 |
gnarface | and they would do it if they had the man power | 13:40 |
r3boot | yeah, I expected that. Same thing that elogind exists nowadays; Lots of apps have become dependent on SD api's, and if devuan doesnt support those api's, it needs an alternative | 13:40 |
r3boot | and alternatives are expensive if you need to write + maintain them | 13:41 |
gnu_srs | r3boot: Maybe the problems will be solved so that libsystemd can be replaced with libelogind. Work is ongoing in that direction :) | 14:12 |
r3boot | yeah, following that somewhat closely :) | 14:13 |
r3boot | Devuan has, so far, been the only serious distro that actually tries to live w/o systemd. And in doing so, it'll need to either maintain a bunch of forks (for, say, gnome), or rewrite the functionality (elogind). Its good to see that the elogind path has been chosen, but I do wonder about long-term maintenance, especially if the rest of the Linux/GNU FLOSS world has moved beyond sysv init | 14:17 |
r3boot | (note, gentoo does that as well, but I dont see that as a general-purpose distro) | 14:17 |
system16 | hi | 14:18 |
system16 | should i DDoS my sftp server ? i want to see if my firewall settings are working or not | 14:19 |
system16 | using loic | 14:19 |
system16 | low orbit ion cannon | 14:19 |
r3boot | dont | 14:19 |
system16 | why | 14:19 |
r3boot | because you are not going to test your firewall ruleset using loic, AND you will trigger a lot of IDS alerts in doing so | 14:19 |
r3boot | Better to use nmap | 14:19 |
system16 | nmap ? | 14:20 |
r3boot | nmap -sT -vv -p1-65535 | 14:20 |
r3boot | yes, a portscanner | 14:20 |
system16 | a port scanner ? | 14:20 |
r3boot | yes, a tool which systematically attempts to open up all ports on a given computer system to see if something is listening on that port | 14:20 |
system16 | (i just want to see its reaction to a ddos attack) | 14:20 |
r3boot | your host will go offline, or your network will go offline, or nothing will happen at all | 14:21 |
r3boot | dont test firewalls using a DoS tool, that's just wrong :) | 14:21 |
system16 | a reboot fixes them right ? | 14:21 |
r3boot | you dont even need to reboot | 14:21 |
r3boot | just stop DoS'ing | 14:21 |
* MinceR reboots the universe | 14:21 | |
system16 | my server is OFF right now . what would happen if i ddos my public IP ? | 14:22 |
r3boot | system16: seriously, if you cant make the distinction between a DoS tool and a portscanner, maybe you need to learn a thing or two about network security before you attempt to validate the security of your network (nofi, just some wise words) | 14:22 |
r3boot | do not ddos your public ip! | 14:22 |
r3boot | you have a chance of getting caught / getting into trouble | 14:22 |
system16 | o k o k | 14:22 |
system16 | oh | 14:22 |
r3boot | (not if you do it on your local lan tho) | 14:22 |
system16 | by my isp ? | 14:22 |
r3boot | could be, yeah, or some isp in between | 14:23 |
r3boot | but really, read up about network security first | 14:23 |
system16 | port 22 is open | 14:23 |
r3boot | yep, that's ssh | 14:23 |
system16 | 3389 | 14:23 |
system16 | remote desktop | 14:23 |
r3boot | sftp is a protocol that runs over ssh | 14:23 |
system16 | ik | 14:23 |
errandir1 | In case of a ddos attach you network card or the linux IP stack should drop the packets. If you have enough CPUs your system should still function | 14:24 |
system16 | so technically nothing serious would happen if someone ddoses me right ? | 14:25 |
system16 | https://pentest-tools.com/network-vulnerability-scanning/tcp-port-scanner-online-nmap | 14:25 |
system16 | im using that | 14:25 |
errandir1 | depends on your expectations and the number of CPUs in your system... | 14:26 |
r3boot | errandir1: yeah, but there is a chance that your kernel will consume all cores just processing + dropping the packets | 14:26 |
system16 | it did nothing | 14:26 |
errandir1 | r3boot: yes it will consume a number of cores | 14:27 |
system16 | what should i look for ? | 14:27 |
r3boot | also depends on the age of your cpu tho, and the type of nics, the amount of offloading features, and how fast the DoS is coming in. If your 1GE nic is saturated with 10GE of traffic, nothing will come through at all | 14:28 |
system16 | cmd does not have nmap right ? | 14:28 |
system16 | nope | 14:28 |
r3boot | I'm running an old colo (dl380g4, debian squeeze, dont ask), which used to run a public ntp server, and I had to pull that offline b/c reflection attacks taking my colo offline | 14:29 |
r3boot | system16: cmd sounds like windows | 14:29 |
system16 | well my server runs linux ( but i have a ton of linux VMs) | 14:29 |
r3boot | then nmap from your server ;) | 14:29 |
r3boot | windows does not come with nmap by default iig | 14:29 |
r3boot | but you can install it, no problem | 14:30 |
system16 | let me try termux | 14:30 |
system16 | of course. an error my luck is AWESOME | 14:32 |
system16 | cannot link executable "nmap" | 14:32 |
system16 | i guess my only way is to power the server | 14:32 |
r3boot | no | 14:33 |
r3boot | you need to install nmap, and make sure it is in PATH | 14:33 |
r3boot | apt-get install nmap ; nmap -sT <blah> | 14:33 |
system16 | its pkg but OK | 14:34 |
system16 | server is b00ting | 14:34 |
system16 | is root needed ? | 14:35 |
system16 | (im on my server) | 14:36 |
gnarface | depends on options | 14:36 |
gnarface | i'm sure it will tell you | 14:36 |
system16 | i ran apt install nmap | 14:36 |
system16 | (its not installed) | 14:37 |
gnarface | oh, root is needed for that | 14:37 |
gnarface | but root isn't always needed to run nmap, it depends on the options you pass to it | 14:37 |
system16 | nmap -sT -vv -p1-65535 <<where should i type the host name ? | 14:38 |
system16 | after nmap ? | 14:38 |
gnarface | at the end | 14:38 |
system16 | ok | 14:38 |
system16 | some open ports | 14:39 |
system16 | 22 and 21 is expected | 14:39 |
system16 | but 7547 is open | 14:39 |
system16 | 52252 | 14:39 |
system16 | and thats it | 14:40 |
system16 | (443 and etc are open but they are normal) | 14:40 |
system16 | so are those 2 ports normal (its says they are unknown ) | 14:42 |
gnarface | google search suggests 52252 is your apple Xsan and 7547 is a backdoor your ISP put there to patch yoru router firmware | 14:42 |
system16 | but i replaced my isp provided router | 14:42 |
system16 | 2 months ago | 14:42 |
system16 | (i bought my own) | 14:43 |
gnarface | i think the way that portscan was run it's possible you could have caught outbound traffic ports being opened for other programs you're running (dns queries) | 14:43 |
gnarface | so they could also be false positives | 14:43 |
gnarface | unless they're still there when you run it a second time... then you should probably see what process owns them | 14:43 |
system16 | i also ran nmap (my Ip) | 14:43 |
system16 | those 2 ports are gone | 14:43 |
gnarface | without the -p parameter, it will only scan the first 1024 ports | 14:44 |
system16 | well i have a lot of devices connect to the router right now | 14:44 |
gnarface | do you know about wireshark? | 14:45 |
system16 | https://www.whatismyip.com/port-scanner/ reports taht port 52252 is closed hmmm | 14:46 |
system16 | yes | 14:46 |
system16 | scam-baiters use that alot | 14:46 |
gnarface | wireshark might be useful too, or even just tcpdump, so you can see what is passing traffic | 14:46 |
system16 | to find out scammers location and IP | 14:46 |
system16 | so i guess my network is safe ? | 14:48 |
gnarface | seems that way from what you've said | 14:49 |
gnarface | you probably shouldn't be using ftp really though | 14:49 |
system16 | sftp* | 14:49 |
gnarface | no, if it was sftp it wouldn't be open on port 21 | 14:50 |
gnarface | that's not good | 14:50 |
system16 | port 22 and 21 are open | 14:50 |
system16 | so i should probably close port 21 | 14:50 |
system16 | oops | 14:50 |
gnarface | all you need is 22 unless you also want to provide regular unencrypted ftp | 14:50 |
gnarface | openssh-server should have built-in sftp by default now | 14:51 |
djph | gnarface: it's been builtin for ~ages~ | 14:51 |
gnarface | djph: yes, but despite that it's paradoxically rare knowledge | 14:52 |
r3boot | gnarface: technically, you have implicit-ftps, which does encryption on tcp/21, but I guess that's a bit out of scope for this discussion ;P | 14:53 |
djph | yup. I had one issue (different channel) where the guy was complaining ftp/ssl was difficult to configure, and was getting super mad at people for saying "guy, sftp://servernamehere" | 14:53 |
system16 | wow dlinks UI is so confusing | 14:53 |
r3boot | djph: I 'officially' support a 2500 user ftp+ftps cluster, I feel your pain :P | 14:54 |
system16 | there are 3 things for 1 thing wow virtual server and application rules >> they all do the samething as "port forwarding" section | 14:54 |
system16 | according to its help | 14:55 |
system16 | i managed to disable port 21 (inbound filter) | 14:56 |
r3boot | better to disable the ftp server that's running on that port as well | 14:57 |
system16 | there is no ftp server | 14:57 |
r3boot | is tcp/21 open? | 14:57 |
system16 | i never used ftp in my life | 14:57 |
djph | r3boot: thankfully, this was just on the #linux or #networking channels | 14:57 |
system16 | well nmap says its still open | 14:57 |
system16 | but other websites say its closed | 14:58 |
r3boot | system16: then you *are* running an ftp server, or something else which masquerades as a ftp server | 14:58 |
djph | $5 says it's the dlink box itself, and/or the ISP's device. | 14:58 |
r3boot | your router is probably not portforwarding tcp/21 to your server, which is why it returns as 'closed' | 14:58 |
r3boot | but you want multiple layers of defense | 14:58 |
r3boot | (so both a block on tcp/21 AND not running anything on tcp/21) | 14:59 |
r3boot | that way, if you (accidentaly or on purpose) disable your firewall, ftp will not be accessible. Nor will it be accessible if you (accidently) run a ftp server | 14:59 |
djph | you can "accidentally" install vsftp these days? | 15:00 |
r3boot | if someone w/o a clue of what the difference is between ftp, ftps and sftp, there is a big chance it will happen :P | 15:00 |
r3boot | 'hey, I need an ftp server.. Look at all these confusing howto's? I just installed vsftpd, but sftp <myhost> does not work?? Oh, I need to enable sftp server in sshd_config' | 15:01 |
system16 | nah i do know the difference. SSH ftp = sftp | 15:02 |
djph | r3boot: pretty sure sshd_config ships with sftp enabled ... and has since at least old-old-old stable | 15:02 |
system16 | its safer | 15:02 |
system16 | cuz it uses ssh | 15:02 |
system16 | and ssh is *mostly* safe | 15:02 |
r3boot | right :) | 15:02 |
r3boot | djph: yeah, I get that. Just trying to explain a situation that I see *very* often over the past 10 yrs of beginner support | 15:03 |
djph | r3boot: yeah, 10 years is a long time though | 15:03 |
djph | ... tbh, i'm getting tired of "beginners" ---> "Why doesn't this work like Windows?!" "because it's not" "But I want it to work like windows" "so use windows" "but I don't want to use windows" "so stop whining already..." | 15:04 |
system16 | guys i think i cant do anything else other than denying inbound filter | 15:05 |
system16 | stupid router | 15:05 |
r3boot | djph: I had the 'tired of lusers' phase some years ago, and I'm trying to get back on track. The satisfaction overwins the amount of end-user drama, if you dont let it get to you that often, imho :) | 15:06 |
djph | r3boot: it's why I tend to /ignore rather quickly these days ... and Usenet | 15:06 |
r3boot | system16: if you really want to get fancy, replace the default route on your linux box with a default route pointing to a blackhole interface, and add host routes for the source ip's that you use to access your box ;) | 15:07 |
system16 | brain.deb is not responding | 15:07 |
r3boot | Eg, ip route del 0.0.0.0/0 ; ip route add 0.0.0.0/0 via lo ; ip route add <your external ip address of another host>/32 via <ip address of gateway> | 15:07 |
r3boot | yeah, then dont do that :) | 15:07 |
system16 | every port scanning site that i tried says its closed | 15:07 |
system16 | i think its good enough | 15:08 |
r3boot | but it's way more secure then just a firewall, since your box will simply not route packets to a box which you havent explicitly configured a hostroute for | 15:08 |
gnarface | system16: keep in mind the view from inside the router will be different than outside, and the router will have it's own firewall settings that need to be checked | 15:09 |
gnarface | (probably) | 15:09 |
system16 | yes hence the name "inbound filter" | 15:09 |
r3boot | what do you think 'inbound filter' means in this context? | 15:09 |
r3boot | djph: and yep, /ignore for ppl that really dont want to learn or are too stubborn to learn :P | 15:10 |
system16 | denies access to port XXXX on wan | 15:10 |
r3boot | *BZZT* wrong :) | 15:10 |
r3boot | a network interface has two directions | 15:10 |
r3boot | inbound, from the network to the device | 15:10 |
r3boot | and outbound, from the device to the network | 15:10 |
djph | and local! | 15:11 |
r3boot | (and under linux, foward, for packets that enter one interface and exit another) | 15:11 |
system16 | r3boot, i meant that ^^ | 15:11 |
r3boot | so an inbound filter implies a ruleset for packets coming FROM the network TO a device :) | 15:11 |
r3boot | ah, check :) | 15:11 |
system16 | thats what i meant | 15:11 |
r3boot | system16: you would really help yourself if you learn a bit about networking btw :) | 15:11 |
system16 | i enabled 21 again. still does nothing :) | 15:12 |
r3boot | Lots of questions you asked could be trivially answered if you know networking basics | 15:12 |
system16 | im still learning | 15:13 |
system16 | server is not responding on port 21 | 15:13 |
system16 | see i told ya. that server wont do anything on port 21 | 15:14 |
r3boot | :) | 15:15 |
r3boot | yeah, I know system16 :) Just trying to teach you how to fish :) | 15:15 |
system16 | am i the only one that is afraid of fstab ? | 15:17 |
system16 | i actually put a command in rc.local that mounts the external drive on startup | 15:17 |
djph | uh, why? | 15:17 |
r3boot | why are you afraid of fstab? | 15:17 |
djph | ^ | 15:17 |
system16 | because | 15:17 |
djph | fstab is the right way to do it ... | 15:18 |
system16 | if i mess it up | 15:18 |
system16 | it wont boot | 15:18 |
r3boot | it's a tab/whitespace delimited file, and you can test it w/o rebooting | 15:18 |
djph | ^ | 15:18 |
djph | mount -a | 15:18 |
r3boot | so add your entry, try to mount, and only if that works, reboot | 15:18 |
djph | "reading fstab ...." | 15:18 |
system16 | well | 15:18 |
system16 | rc.local works | 15:18 |
system16 | so why bother ? | 15:18 |
r3boot | because you want a working system? | 15:18 |
r3boot | so ^^ is how you test it w/o rebooting it | 15:18 |
system16 | and i told it to play a MP3 file after that | 15:19 |
djph | because fstab is the *correct* way | 15:19 |
system16 | "hyperdrive initiated" | 15:19 |
djph | Why would you want to learn multiplication when you can just add? | 15:19 |
system16 | what if i unplug the drive | 15:19 |
r3boot | then you first need to umount it | 15:19 |
system16 | would it still boot normally ? | 15:20 |
r3boot | depends | 15:20 |
r3boot | if you added the 'noauto' flag to the fstab line, it wont be an issue | 15:20 |
system16 | rc.local just runs the command. does not care if it works or not | 15:20 |
r3boot | system16: look, you want to do this correctly, or in a way which 'just works' | 15:20 |
r3boot | because both are possible ;) | 15:20 |
r3boot | but you'll wont learn a lot with the 'just works' method | 15:20 |
r3boot | especially not how Linux actually works | 15:21 |
r3boot | I can think of a bunch of other ways to mount that usb disk apart from rc.local, but none of those methods will learn you anything, apart from that stuff is possible(tm) :P | 15:22 |
devoid_ | udev is the worst thing since udev | 15:23 |
r3boot | why? | 15:23 |
devoid_ | it gets device events via netlink | 15:24 |
devoid_ | afaik | 15:24 |
r3boot | that's how modern linux networking layers work. Your point is? | 15:25 |
devoid_ | well | 15:25 |
r3boot | See also ip and ss | 15:25 |
devoid_ | i know | 15:25 |
system16 | nice fail2ban works... i got banned for 24 hours | 15:26 |
devoid_ | but why send device events over _netlink_? | 15:26 |
r3boot | because you want to be notified about device events? | 15:26 |
devoid_ | seems like such a hack | 15:26 |
r3boot | polling (eg) interface status, now that's a hack | 15:26 |
devoid_ | yeah well read from a device file | 15:26 |
r3boot | polling, yeah, that's a resource hog ;) | 15:27 |
r3boot | having a watcher + event is way more efficient + fast | 15:27 |
devoid_ | just use a blocking read | 15:27 |
r3boot | mja, event-driven programming is the way to go nowadays | 15:28 |
r3boot | iig, I dont see why that would make udev so bad | 15:28 |
devoid_ | it annoys me | 15:28 |
r3boot | I would even see it as an improvement | 15:28 |
r3boot | ahja | 15:28 |
devoid_ | reusing an interface used for configuring networking | 15:28 |
devoid_ | for device events | 15:29 |
r3boot | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netlink | 15:29 |
devoid_ | i really dont like netlink at all to be honest | 15:29 |
r3boot | its an IPC mechanism, not a configuration interface | 15:29 |
r3boot | Tsja, you could see if you can get an old kernel to run, or switch over to a BSD kernel or so | 15:30 |
r3boot | but if you're using linux, netlink is here to stay | 15:30 |
devoid_ | sadly | 15:30 |
r3boot | Tsja, you do have a choice ofc :) | 15:32 |
errandir1 | maybe there are udev alternative that do not use netlink yet, but netlink is the kernel's way forward | 15:37 |
devoid_ | the kernel can call a binary instead i think | 15:38 |
r3boot | (and if it's not there, just implement your own ;) | 15:38 |
devoid_ | with ueventd | 15:38 |
devoid_ | s | 15:38 |
devoid_ | its somewhere in the config | 15:38 |
r3boot | TIL ueventd == ported / imported from Android | 15:39 |
r3boot | why not just use the FLOSS implementation instead of an implementation that was written by an advertisement company? :P | 15:40 |
silverwillow | hey all. Having a bit of a puzzle finding a more recent PHP than 7.0. Am I supposed to get it from a debian repository? | 17:07 |
silverwillow | oh, running ASCII | 17:07 |
djph | ascii is stable, which means "stuff isn't going to change" -- same as debian stable | 17:10 |
silverwillow | ah. so i need to migrate to ceres... ok. google will provide :) | 17:12 |
Juesto | how should i safely transition to efi grub from mbr and keeping things in a partition? i also have a uefi fedora already | 17:43 |
buZz | silverwillow: isnt it in ascii-backports? | 18:55 |
buZz | jep, it is | 18:55 |
buZz | php/stable,stable 1:7.0+49 all | 18:55 |
furrywolf | "stable php"... now there's an oxymoron... | 18:56 |
buZz | wait | 18:56 |
buZz | thats not from backports? hmm | 18:56 |
silverwillow | isn't that still 7.0.xxx? | 18:56 |
furrywolf | I have never, ever had a php update not break something. | 18:56 |
buZz | ah too me thats new ;) | 18:56 |
silverwillow | i need > 7.1 for cphalcon | 18:57 |
silverwillow | or rather for stuff that builds on cphalcon - i've been running around in dependency hell all the bloody day. | 18:57 |
buZz | silverwillow: cphalcon says it supports 7.0.x ? | 18:57 |
buZz | even 5.x it seems | 18:57 |
silverwillow | and waddayano.... they tools that supposedly should make it less painfull... npm, bower, etc. they are all BROKEN!!! | 18:58 |
silverwillow | i really do hate the 'modern web' with a passion | 18:58 |
buZz | ? you need nodejs and golang to compile a C++ lib for php? | 18:58 |
buZz | silverwillow: yeah you and me both , i tend to just design new websites in html3 with near zero .js for speed benefits | 18:59 |
silverwillow | yeah cphalcon itself was easy to build/install... but there's a further dependency for something else... meh - i can't even be bothered to type it all... too fed-up with wasting time with all of this stuff. sorry :( | 18:59 |
buZz | np | 18:59 |
silverwillow | anyhow - thanks for taking a pico second of your time to suggest a few things - much appreciated :) | 19:00 |
buZz | welcome \o/ | 19:00 |
silverwillow | :) | 19:00 |
furrywolf | I find these "modern" websites to generally not work, and when they do, to be worse in every way than a non-javascript solution. | 19:01 |
furrywolf | witness, for example, USGS's new and improved earthquake site... that now only works in about two specific browser versions, none of which are for linux or for mobile devices... | 19:02 |
furrywolf | for 99% of websites, a huge javascript blob does not add anything to the site in any way. | 19:03 |
buZz | furrywolf: on the flipside of things | 19:07 |
buZz | someone made ncsa-mosaic compile again on modern linuxes, its nearly the fastest browser i know now | 19:08 |
buZz | :P | 19:08 |
buZz | https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic | 19:08 |
furrywolf | lol | 19:08 |
furrywolf | I've always used dillo for fast-and-light. | 19:08 |
furrywolf | (in modern times) | 19:10 |
buZz | 'surf' is nice aswell, from the suckless ppl | 19:10 |
devoid_ | if you can figure out how to use tabbed | 19:16 |
devoid_ | also from the suckless ppl | 19:17 |
aggrora | y | 20:09 |
* ttkv used "surf" for a while. it's okay. | 21:41 | |
ttkv | mostly seems like a nice basis on which to develop a real browser .. it's the simplest useful wrapper around WebKit/GTK+ | 21:42 |
furrywolf | bbl, time for work | 21:53 |
Juesto | how should i safely transition from mbr to efi grub and keeping the configuration plus everything contained in a single partition? i have another distro with efi already | 21:55 |
* redrick waves at esr | 22:51 | |
* redrick is shocked! shocked! to find esr interested in Devuan. (Your winnings, sir.) | 22:52 | |
James1138 | lol | 23:07 |
James1138 | ESR... the stuff dreams are made of. | 23:09 |
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