libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2018-12-13

salsburyping gnarface02:46
gnarfaceyo02:47
salsburyhey02:48
salsburyremember the kernel performance thing?02:48
gnarfacemaybe, which one?02:48
salsburythe 4.19.802:48
gnarfacegonna need more to go on.  you're not the one who switched from nvidia 390 to 396 and it fixed the problem, were you?02:49
salsburyah no02:49
salsburyI'm the one who noticed temperatures going up after booting a new kernel02:50
gnarfaceoh, yea, i remember that part02:51
salsburyI just wanted to say that I still don't know what happened here, or why it runs hotter now, but I've compiled 4.9.144 and the same thing happened. só it's not a 4.19.8 thing. it's a -->me<-- thing (as suspected)02:52
gnarfaceoh but you're also the one who had the problem with the +350MB initrd.img, right?02:52
salsburynow I'm back to ascii's 4.9.13002:52
salsburyyes!02:53
salsburythats me :D02:53
gnarfacei think it's wise to avoid Linus's personal build tree for your own daily use...02:53
salsburyI managed to bring it down to 60mb though02:53
gnarfacewow that's still a lot02:53
salsburyyeah... not ideal02:54
salsburywhy should I avoid linus's?02:54
gnarfacei would just expect it to be highly experimental02:54
salsburyeven longterm branches?02:55
gnarfacethe configs for 4.9 that debian & devuan use are very well tested over the course of many years02:55
salsburyhmmm, makes sense02:55
salsburybut in my case, even using the ascii .config-4.9.0-8 to build the new 4.9.144, resulted in the same situation02:57
salsburymaybe there's some special patches debian or devuan are using02:58
salsburyright?02:58
gnarfacehmmm02:59
gnarfacedebian is using patches02:59
gnarfacelots of them02:59
gnarfaceand to be clear the devuan kernel is the same exact package03:00
salsburybtw, do you know where I could find detailed docs on devuan's kernel building process?03:00
gnarfacethese kernels aren't rebuilt at all03:00
gnarfacethey're copied directly from debian, unaltered03:01
salsburyoh I see03:01
gnarfacethey're not even repackaged03:01
salsburythat's interesting03:01
gnarfaceonly some of the ARM images have kernels built by devuan devs, but i am under the impression they worked hard to use the debian configs there too03:01
gnarface(at least, as much as possible for hardware debian doesn't support)03:02
salsburyI tried building a debian kernel but the building process is kind of weird. there's some python scripts to build the tarball ...but they depend on some debian modules that I don't have... I didn't try to get those python modules but now I think I will03:04
gnarfacethere's more than one ways to do it03:04
salsburygive it another shot03:04
gnarfacefirst get the source package with "apt-get source linux-image-[whatever]" then you should be able to just build it with make-kpkg03:05
gnarfacethere's some debian-specific build script in the ./debian/ directory that can work, but it tends to choke on minor things like unrecognized patches and perfectly valid package names and stuff03:06
gnarfaceyou can get the build deps easily with "apt-get build-dep [package name]" and "apt-get build-essential"03:07
salsburywith make-kpkg, can I still mess around with .config?03:07
gnarfaceyea, you would still do menuconfig before make-kpkg03:07
salsburyoh nice03:07
salsburyon second thought... hmmm03:08
gnarfaceideally you wouldn't need to change much, if anything, if you're starting with a debian config03:09
salsburywhat I'd really like to do... would be to get linus's and apply the patches and configs myself...03:09
salsburyhmmm03:10
salsburyI mean, this is a purely academic endeavor :D03:11
gnarfacei did have one machine that just installing the amd64-microcode package to seemed to raise the idle temperatures03:12
gnarfacebut even if that's happening to you, it's unrelated to the huge initrd.img size03:12
gnarfacei couldn't be too sure about that machine anyway because it had failing fans too03:13
salsburycould be, the temp difference on idle is +10deg C03:14
gnarfacethat's a lot03:14
salsburysystem is running at 39deg right now, I've got firefox running03:14
gnarfacei was seeing a difference of less than 5C03:15
gnarface2-403:15
gnarface39 doesn't seem outrageous03:15
gnarfacei'm at 35 now with firefox running03:15
salsburyif I just let it idle, it goes down to 37deg03:15
gnarfacei know if i dusted the fan vents better it would go down to 3403:15
salsburybut on the compiled kernel, it idles at 47deg03:15
gnarfacethat's a real puzzle, i wonder what changes03:16
salsburyyeah03:16
gnarfaceand you're sure it's still using the same cpu frequency governor by default for both kernels?03:16
salsburyyep03:16
salsburyit always defaults to powersave03:16
salsburybut one thing I've noticed is that the temp jumps much faster03:17
salsburyif I start a new process, it spikes about 3deg almost instantaneously. if I start something a bit heavier like firefox there's even a bigger spike03:19
salsburybut it's always the same governor, same graphics driver (nouveau with bumblebeed)03:20
gnarfacehmm03:21
gnarfacedid you ever try nouveau with dri_prime instead of bumblebee?03:21
salsburyohh and the funny thing is03:21
salsburyif I force the fan speed to max, the temp still doesn't go down03:22
gnarfacehmmm03:22
gnarfacethat makes me wonder if it's even reading the same sensor03:22
salsburyhavent tried dri_prime03:22
salsburyit is03:22
salsburyi checked them manually03:22
gnarfacedamn03:22
salsburyon /sys03:22
salsburyI'm now inclined to believe there's some magic patches doing perf improvements03:25
salsburysome non-configurable scheduler tweaks...something related to context switching03:28
salsburyI'll give the debian kernel another try in a few days.03:34
* man_in_shack collapses14:56
minnesotags1Ok. What am I doing wrong with the Devuan VM image? I created a virtual machine in virt-manager, gave it a name, and I guess I assumed that creates a new qcow2 image, but it doesn't?19:32
djphsounds like making the disk is where you went wrong ...22:21
treeviewCurious, was ever there a Devuan Tails fork available?23:54
MinceRyes, it's called heads23:55
treeviewBOOM! Thanks! Merry Christmas!23:56
MinceR:)23:57

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