| Achylles | I am trying to recompile a devuan distro through refractasnapshot. I have mate desktop and Xfce4 and stumpwm as DEs and TW. In my snap, I would like to exclude Mate. How do I write this procedure in my /usr/lib/refracta-exclude.conf ? | 01:51 |
|---|---|---|
| Achylles | I cannot see an example there, but only removing folders examples --> -# /home/$user/Music/* and etc... | 01:53 |
| rafalcpp_ | so CVE-2019-3842 seems a critical systemd exploit | 11:53 |
| xinomilo | latest apache exploits https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4422 seem more relevant to devuan users-webmasters. | 12:15 |
| rafalcpp | xinomilo: did devuan somehow avoided it? | 12:19 |
| xinomilo | systemd exploit? yes, by not using it all :D | 12:19 |
| xinomilo | just keep systems upgraded | 12:20 |
| Evilham | And the apache2 is not avoided, but automqgicalky fixed by diverging as little as needed frkm debian | 12:26 |
| * Evilham sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/RfHVuKbscjvKQYwICrdfGzIc > | 12:26 | |
| * Evilham uses the opportunity to remind everyone that in spite of the differences, debian does a great job and devuan relies on that wherever possible | 12:29 | |
| tuxd3v | Good Morning freedom lovers | 12:40 |
| popgreeny | Good Mroning | 12:51 |
| popgreeny | Morning* | 12:51 |
| telmich | good morning | 14:10 |
| telmich | I guess most of you have already seen / read https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1083082-systemd-free-debian-devuan-planning-their-first-developer-gathering-this-spring/ -- in case you haven't, the comments section is something I recommend for reading | 14:11 |
| telmich | Not for getting angry, but to understand the crowds better | 14:11 |
| * Evilham sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/wHCdyQNAMtsKQxNzZCrkyGFq > | 14:32 | |
| Evilham | Which are fair but non incomplete points | 14:33 |
| Evilham | *but incomplete | 14:33 |
| Evilham | For the first one, I know quite a few people sticking to debian without systemd as a kind of experiment "we'll see how long I can keep that up" | 14:34 |
| Evilham | The second one is well-deserved in both directions as things got very nasty at some point, but these days is kind of anachronistic | 14:35 |
| Evilham | And the third one... Well, that's a matter of how you look at things and there is value in understanding why people think that, but they rarely elaborate | 14:35 |
| telmich | Evilham: there are 352 comments, do you plan to comment on all of them? :-) | 14:41 |
| telmich | A lot of it is trolling, but even if it is, it shows what people do think | 14:41 |
| Evilham | No, just wondered if there is anything specific you think is important | 14:41 |
| Evilham | I have clustered bunch of comments on previous articles / threads on those 3 categories, that's why I mentioned that | 14:42 |
| Evilham | If there's something new and you know that, I'll happily read :-D otherwise, I am aware of these fuzzy 3 directions of critique | 14:43 |
| nemo | even if I wasn't using devuan I'd be grateful to it for keeping options open in the linux ecosystem. I dislike the one-system-to-rule-them-all approaches, especially when they have no standard specifications, binary formats, and are "living" things where any 3rd party reimplementations play catchup | 14:44 |
| nemo | and that's setting aside systemd's security fails in the past | 14:45 |
| nemo | devuan and gentoo, both doing good work on this front | 14:46 |
| nemo | irritates me when I hear stuff like "oh, if only everyone in the world used google chrome everything would be much easier" | 14:46 |
| nemo | "oh if only everyone used github" | 14:46 |
| nemo | "… systemd … " "… ubuntu … " | 14:47 |
| nemo | MP4 ☺ | 14:47 |
| nemo | seems every bit of software out there that gets a bit of traction has adherents who push for it to become THE standard | 14:47 |
| nemo | regardless of what issues there might be in its design, documentation and development | 14:48 |
| djph | nemo: welcome to "humans" | 15:24 |
| djph | also, if everyone would realize we don't need to re-implement IRC every 3 years ... that'd be great. | 15:25 |
| ashleyk | djph, recreate irc, sell to china (so spying is legal), repeat | 15:27 |
| djph | ashleyk: so, basically, "here, I signed into all the IRC channels with this bot..." | 15:29 |
| ashleyk | nah, just own the servers | 15:31 |
| ashleyk | just make any kind of anonymous communication service and "they" will storm you to buy it | 15:32 |
| nemo | djph: at least there's that IRCv3 which seems to be getting traction | 15:40 |
| nemo | maybe that'll head 'em off at the pass | 15:41 |
| nemo | welp. the first page of comments was fairly stupid | 15:43 |
| nemo | and I'm not gonna bother whitelisting phoronix just 'cause they think navigating pages in a forum thread requires JS, based on the SNR of that first page | 15:44 |
| ashleyk | nemo, heh | 16:12 |
| djph | heh | 16:17 |
| ashleyk | and maps.google.com (when i accidentily click a link or something) says "when js is disabled all that can remain is a blank page" or something stupid | 16:18 |
| tuxd3v | Well, I think Devuan has very good options to grow, into something really really good | 16:59 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 16:59 |
| tuxd3v | It will depend on which companies or developers come in.. | 17:00 |
| tuxd3v | I think most of the people that come in, come from the Debian world | 17:00 |
| chillfan | We'll grow for sure and at minimum show that choice for users can be made to work even if we suggest our own defaults | 17:00 |
| tuxd3v | They don't feel themselves identified with the Debian project anymore | 17:01 |
| tuxd3v | And this people come, and have very good ideas | 17:01 |
| tuxd3v | otherones need to be keep into the box until, Devuan can realize them | 17:02 |
| tuxd3v | But all in All, I think that Devuan, will have Success | 17:02 |
| tuxd3v | People that come, want to do things, and that is good | 17:03 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:03 |
| ashleyk | debian is crap now, there i said it | 17:04 |
| tuxd3v | I think that people is not against systemd, | 17:04 |
| tuxd3v | People are against the lost of their freedom to use whatever they want/need | 17:05 |
| chillfan | hah, I could go one further but it's needless now.. we forked and we're here :) | 17:05 |
| chillfan | right now, I'd just like to see our community grow a little | 17:05 |
| tuxd3v | Debian is turning itself into a desktop os/ Container OS | 17:06 |
| chillfan | which I'm sure is happening | 17:06 |
| tuxd3v | with the premises that RedHat will bring them some good things.. | 17:06 |
| chillfan | is that their official position? | 17:06 |
| furrywolf | I'm still really pissed off about the switch from the debian menu system to fdo's stupidly awful menu system, because everyone else jumped off a cliff too. | 17:06 |
| chillfan | or just how you see the situation? | 17:07 |
| tuxd3v | In my opinion they are loosing the server market they had with that.. | 17:07 |
| ashleyk | tuxd3v, laptop os | 17:07 |
| chillfan | What is fdo? | 17:07 |
| ashleyk | losing embedded market too | 17:07 |
| ashleyk | who would use anything other than devuan for an embedded device, really | 17:07 |
| chillfan | well, I think we're doing very well for embedded | 17:08 |
| chillfan | thanks to some great work by parazyd (among others I think) | 17:08 |
| ashleyk | yes, debian isnt doing so well | 17:08 |
| tuxd3v | parazyd has done a really great job | 17:08 |
| furrywolf | fdo: freedesktop.org | 17:08 |
| chillfan | ah, you mean the menu package that was univeral over desktops and wms | 17:09 |
| furrywolf | yep. that the tech comittee ruled should be ditched because everyone else jumped off a cliff so they should too. | 17:09 |
| tuxd3v | there are also other, that are creating sdks to create your own Devuan OS for some boards( like me..and others out there ) | 17:09 |
| chillfan | he really has, I'm grateful there are premade images for many devices and no need to make your own or go to a third party | 17:09 |
| tuxd3v | I will publish my work, when I think it is a base ground for expanding to other boards | 17:10 |
| chillfan | great, I'd like to see that | 17:10 |
| ashleyk | i also manually got devuan running on a new board | 17:11 |
| tuxd3v | yes askleyk, is also working on that | 17:11 |
| ashleyk | worth it | 17:11 |
| chillfan | yeah there are a couple of avenues for doing that. Chroot install, vmdebootstrap etc | 17:11 |
| chillfan | and also live sdk | 17:11 |
| tuxd3v | I had a sdk working, but then it come the idea of switching to mainline kernel/uboot | 17:11 |
| tuxd3v | and also upgrading cross toolchain | 17:12 |
| tuxd3v | and other stuff | 17:12 |
| tuxd3v | so I am restructuring the sdk | 17:12 |
| chillfan | also there is devsus for installing on asus c201 | 17:12 |
| tuxd3v | the ubbot build, is stable | 17:12 |
| tuxd3v | *uboot* | 17:12 |
| tuxd3v | crosstoolchain download and veryfi, is almost done | 17:13 |
| chillfan | by dimkr : https://github.com/dimkr/devsus | 17:13 |
| tuxd3v | kernel compilation also almost done | 17:13 |
| chillfan | great. Did you mention it on the ml? | 17:13 |
| tuxd3v | need to restructure some things..and I am trying to create it, so that would be easy to anny one to expand, to other boards | 17:14 |
| chillfan | I'm sure people want to hear about it :) | 17:14 |
| chillfan | furrywolf: ah yes.. that annoyed me a lot as well. | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | I have spoken with parazyd, he gave me lots of help, and I also got lots information with other guys out there | 17:15 |
| chillfan | debian is becoming less and less debian by the day | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | the framwork is based on whiptail | 17:15 |
| chillfan | tuxd3v: ah that's great then | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | so any regular human | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | can launch it | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | navegate in the menus | 17:15 |
| chillfan | I get ya, thanks for your efforts | 17:15 |
| tuxd3v | and do everything | 17:16 |
| furrywolf | one of debian's features was a really nicely organized menu system, everything in its place, lots of submenus, etc... now it's all lumped together into a massive mess with only a few categories (for example, CAD programs get stuffed under graphics now), and many things are gone entirely. | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | since downloading code | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | toolchains | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | uboot | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | kernel | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | and then | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | start all process to build a devuan OS for that board | 17:16 |
| ashleyk | furrywolf, debian is irrelevant now | 17:16 |
| tuxd3v | I am in the mean time testing on Allwinner board | 17:17 |
| ashleyk | this is fine | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | one plus | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | H6 | 17:17 |
| chillfan | I agree but we did lose one of the good things to come from debian | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | then I am planning for Pineh64 | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | which is also a h6 board | 17:17 |
| ashleyk | chillfan, ah, i see | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | then, I am planning for rockchip board | 17:17 |
| tuxd3v | rockpro64 ofcourse | 17:18 |
| chillfan | also good from debian imho is dash.. and I wouldn't mind seeing it become the only system shell needed for a bare system with login etc | 17:18 |
| tuxd3v | and yes, I am planning to add support for the fan too | 17:18 |
| tuxd3v | https://github.com/tuxd3v/ats | 17:18 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:18 |
| chillfan | instead of forced bash support I should say, not that it's a trivial fix | 17:18 |
| chillfan | which is nice if you want embedded system and choose your own shell like busybox | 17:19 |
| tuxd3v | I also have their a tool, to help compile to vortually any armv7/armv8 arch tunned to for example big.LITLE or not | 17:20 |
| tuxd3v | I spoke with parazyd, about dash.. | 17:22 |
| tuxd3v | Unfortunatly I have started with bash.. | 17:22 |
| tuxd3v | dash is small and more optimized, but I think its not a login shell | 17:23 |
| ashleyk | why would you want dash over bash | 17:23 |
| tuxd3v | dash is faster | 17:23 |
| tuxd3v | cleaner less resourcess. | 17:23 |
| ashleyk | bash is slow?...hmm | 17:23 |
| tuxd3v | usually is used to lanch deamons and so | 17:23 |
| ashleyk | i never knew bash was slow | 17:24 |
| chillfan | well I don't mean specifically for your project | 17:24 |
| tuxd3v | tuxd3v@desktop0:~/Desktop/H6/OrangePiH6$ ls -l /bin/sh | 17:24 |
| tuxd3v | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 24 2017 /bin/sh -> dash | 17:24 |
| chillfan | but it would be better if bash wasn't a 100% requirement for devuan which it currently is | 17:24 |
| chillfan | for most PC/laptop based installs is fine ofc | 17:25 |
| ashleyk | well, im sure making bash a requirement simplifies a lot of stuff | 17:25 |
| ashleyk | if you think about it | 17:25 |
| tuxd3v | its the default shell of the system, even though that the ash shell is used in a lot of distros in initramfs faze | 17:25 |
| tuxd3v | because it his even smaller and low resourcess. | 17:25 |
| chillfan | yeah, but also dash is always required too, and is faster, less resources, lower footprint | 17:25 |
| chillfan | but say you wanted to come up with something embedded where bash wouldn't fit | 17:25 |
| chillfan | it's easier if everything system related relies on dash, then let user have any login shell they want | 17:26 |
| ashleyk | but in 10 years people will want to remove dash | 17:26 |
| ashleyk | .... | 17:26 |
| ashleyk | to replace it with yash | 17:26 |
| tuxd3v | well | 17:26 |
| ashleyk | yet another shell | 17:26 |
| chillfan | maybe, who knows.. but dash is simply posix compliant, and the scripts will work with bash and others too | 17:27 |
| tuxd3v | Dash is already the default shell like I showed above.. | 17:27 |
| chillfan | yea default system shell, bash is required for two things though.. | 17:27 |
| tuxd3v | you can even push it further, and use ash in initramfs | 17:27 |
| tuxd3v | and dash for the rest | 17:27 |
| chillfan | some packages as part of the base needs bash since they call on it | 17:27 |
| tuxd3v | bash its a login shell | 17:28 |
| chillfan | and also the login scripts are in bash | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | dash doesn't allow you to login | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | I think | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | that's the problem | 17:28 |
| chillfan | you can login to dash it's just not very useful | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | when you need to authenticate | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | for apt and so on | 17:28 |
| chillfan | what I mean is, it would be great if you could install busybox, ash, ksh, zsh, whatever you like and just remove bash but it's very difficult | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | dash fails there | 17:28 |
| tuxd3v | I think bash is a standard, so many things rely on it.. | 17:29 |
| tuxd3v | and its a more high level shell | 17:30 |
| tuxd3v | more close to "humans.." | 17:30 |
| tuxd3v | so its easier to work with | 17:30 |
| tuxd3v | than ksh or csh | 17:30 |
| tuxd3v | I like particularly ksh | 17:30 |
| chillfan | that's fair enough, and I use bash daily I just think it's nice if it's not needed if you want a very small system | 17:30 |
| tuxd3v | but they are diferent | 17:31 |
| tuxd3v | you are talking about devuan in a busibox environment? | 17:31 |
| tuxd3v | with ash | 17:32 |
| tuxd3v | ? | 17:32 |
| chillfan | yeah or whatever the user wants | 17:32 |
| chillfan | I'm sure it's doable but not easy if you have apt installed | 17:32 |
| tuxd3v | I have mever tried that | 17:32 |
| tuxd3v | but apt, will need authentication | 17:32 |
| chillfan | I think you can make just that with debootstrap | 17:33 |
| tuxd3v | and here starts the problem | 17:33 |
| chillfan | but if you install apt it will stop you from proceeding without bash | 17:33 |
| tuxd3v | About debootstrap | 17:33 |
| tuxd3v | that its the method I am using in Devuarm sdk | 17:33 |
| chillfan | like every time you install or remove a package it will bring it back | 17:33 |
| tuxd3v | but for embedded things | 17:34 |
| chillfan | or if you hold it, it will refuse | 17:34 |
| tuxd3v | what is calles Cross-Debootstrap | 17:34 |
| chillfan | but you can still make a busybox env without apt.. just you won't be able to update packages | 17:34 |
| tuxd3v | *called* | 17:34 |
| tuxd3v | yeas | 17:34 |
| tuxd3v | *yes* | 17:34 |
| tuxd3v | you will be without apt | 17:35 |
| chillfan | I'm not too much of an expert on it, I just found the bash situation frustrating | 17:35 |
| * chillfan is very much a minimalist | 17:36 | |
| tuxd3v | hehe | 17:37 |
| tuxd3v | its fine | 17:37 |
| tuxd3v | any one can use what they want too ;) | 17:37 |
| tuxd3v | I think bash its a good shell for the final user | 17:38 |
| tuxd3v | for the rest, dash, is used | 17:38 |
| chillfan | oh yeah, good for default shell for GNU+Linux | 17:38 |
| chillfan | familiar, traditional, easy | 17:38 |
| tuxd3v | I think who pushed dash has a default system shell was Ubuntu, some years ago | 17:38 |
| tuxd3v | then debian followed them.. | 17:39 |
| KatolaZ | tuxd3v: you are wrong | 17:39 |
| KatolaZ | dash was written by devuan | 17:39 |
| chillfan | debian^ | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | after the project adopted the original Almqvuist shell | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | (ASH) | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | dash is the default for all init scripts | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | and for all the system scripts in Debian | 17:40 |
| chillfan | yeah I believed so too, dash was a debian thing. It's a nice idea I think | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | Debian Almquist SHell | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 17:40 |
| chillfan | let the system scripts run in dash since it's quick and small footprint which is also a slight plus for security | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | 17:41 < KatolaZ> dash was written by devuan | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | ^^^^^^ sorry, I meant "by Debian" obviously | 17:41 |
| KatolaZ | lapsus :P | 17:41 |
| chillfan | Well not a bad typo really.. our main idea is sed -i 's/debian/devuan/' anyway :) | 17:41 |
| chillfan | I try to think of it like I've been using Devuan for all these years now ;) | 17:42 |
| tuxd3v | Hello katolaz | 17:42 |
| tuxd3v | katolaz, I liked your presentation | 17:43 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:43 |
| tuxd3v | I don'tknow who wrote dash | 17:43 |
| tuxd3v | but the first OS to use it I think was ubuntu | 17:43 |
| tuxd3v | has the default shell | 17:43 |
| KatolaZ | tuxd3v: thanks | 17:44 |
| KatolaZ | dunno about ubuntu | 17:44 |
| tuxd3v | well some 10 years ago | 17:44 |
| tuxd3v | or something like that | 17:44 |
| KatolaZ | I lost it in 2005 | 17:44 |
| tuxd3v | But I didn't remember who wrote it | 17:44 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 17:44 |
| tuxd3v | thanks for the refresh | 17:45 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:45 |
| KatolaZ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almquist_shell <- | 17:45 |
| Evilham | I think I remember that discussion and dash was the default on debian testing first, so yes, ubuntu was the first distro to have a "stable release" defaulting to dash :-p | 17:46 |
| chillfan | In 1997 Herbert Xu ported ash from NetBSD to Debian Linux. | 17:46 |
| KatolaZ | yep | 17:46 |
| KatolaZ | Almquist shell dates back to the early '80s IIRC | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | oh no I am wrong | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | Wikipedia says late '80s | 17:47 |
| Evilham | huh, according to wikipedia it was Ubuntu | 17:47 |
| chillfan | well it's first ported to debian | 17:47 |
| chillfan | ubuntu being the downstream | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ash/ | 17:47 |
| chillfan | I wish I could find the maintainers page now | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ash/ash.png | 17:48 |
| tuxd3v | Debian ported ash from BSD with some aditions | 17:48 |
| KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dash | 17:48 |
| tuxd3v | Ubuntu was the first to use it, 2006 | 17:48 |
| tuxd3v | good...we are getting old.. | 17:48 |
| tuxd3v | :( | 17:48 |
| tuxd3v | *good* -> god | 17:49 |
| tuxd3v | you are right | 17:49 |
| tuxd3v | katolaz | 17:49 |
| tuxd3v | debian ported it and added some features that ash doesn't had | 17:49 |
| KatolaZ | yes, we are getting old :) | 17:50 |
| KatolaZ | s/old/gold ;) | 17:50 |
| chillfan | ya I expect so, still.. matters more what dash does for us | 17:50 |
| tuxd3v | but ubuntu looked into it, and found the exact match for a system shell | 17:50 |
| tuxd3v | so in 2006 the used it has /bin/sh | 17:50 |
| KatolaZ | tuxd3v: as a matter of fact, dash is one of the few POSIX-compliant shells around | 17:51 |
| KatolaZ | working on setnet, I discovered what that means :) | 17:51 |
| KatolaZ | making it compatible with all the currently-available shells was not trivial | 17:51 |
| chillfan | makes me think of song by 'The Verve' | 17:51 |
| chillfan | "All this talk of getting old.." etc | 17:51 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 17:51 |
| chillfan | https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=bR8XH3R95xE | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | chillfan: what matters is how you feel | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | and I feel like a 17-years old :) | 17:52 |
| chillfan | hah, I feel like I just hit my 20s | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | wow mate, you are getting OLD :P | 17:52 |
| chillfan | hahaha | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 17:52 |
| tuxd3v | well, I cannot say the same | 17:52 |
| tuxd3v | hehehehe | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | tuxd3v: where are you then? | 17:52 |
| tuxd3v | I am already receiving some replacment parts | 17:53 |
| tuxd3v | :D | 17:53 |
| tuxd3v | *replacment* | 17:53 |
| KatolaZ | oh tuxd3v, so getting rid of yuour milky teeth? :P | 17:53 |
| chillfan | They need to hurry up with those experimental anti aging drugs.. | 17:53 |
| chillfan | that are said to show signs of reversing aging.. | 17:53 |
| tuxd3v | heheh | 17:53 |
| tuxd3v | it was an accident | 17:54 |
| ashleyk | chillfan, heh, not possible | 17:54 |
| tuxd3v | but I think I have good chances to walk again | 17:54 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:54 |
| KatolaZ | oh tuxd3v, sorry | 17:54 |
| KatolaZ | didn't mean to joke about that :\ | 17:54 |
| KatolaZ | hope you will be OK soon then | 17:54 |
| chillfan | ashleyk: I don't recall the source, but I wasn't joking, I really read about this | 17:54 |
| ashleyk | chillfan, fake news! | 17:54 |
| tuxd3v | katolaz, thanks for that, I also hope too | 17:55 |
| chillfan | could be, but a drug that shows signs of reversing aging isn't the same as something you can say "this actually works and should be on shelves everywhere" | 17:55 |
| tuxd3v | waiting surgery, but I think will develop well, radical sports..forget, never more :( | 17:55 |
| furrywolf | when they come up with replacement spines, let me know. I am so sick of being useless. | 17:55 |
| tuxd3v | but walking againt I have good chances | 17:55 |
| chillfan | so it's all moot unless something actually happens | 17:55 |
| ashleyk | extend telomeres? | 17:56 |
| ashleyk | fix mitochondria? | 17:56 |
| ashleyk | link please :P | 17:56 |
| furrywolf | I can walk. I just can't pick anything up. | 17:56 |
| chillfan | yeah that's what I mean.. I don't have the source :p | 17:56 |
| chillfan | it was a while ago | 17:56 |
| tuxd3v | <furrywolf>, that is already a good thing :) | 17:57 |
| tuxd3v | I cannot walk, well barelly, some fits and then recover for some 2 hours of the pain | 17:57 |
| chillfan | tuxd3v: fingers crossed for you with the op | 17:57 |
| tuxd3v | with lots of druges | 17:57 |
| furrywolf | fun. what did you break? | 17:57 |
| tuxd3v | chillfan, yeah, I have mine crossed, in the meantime I am puting my time on Devuarm sdk | 17:58 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 17:58 |
| tuxd3v | it will be for June/Jully | 17:59 |
| tuxd3v | not in the winter, becasue of recovery | 17:59 |
| tuxd3v | worm is bether than could for that | 17:59 |
| tuxd3v | cold | 17:59 |
| tuxd3v | but I could not ever do downhill | 18:00 |
| tuxd3v | on my byke | 18:00 |
| tuxd3v | I loved the adrenaline of going down in dangerous places at full speed | 18:00 |
| furrywolf | ah. which was fun until it wasn't? :P | 18:00 |
| tuxd3v | Even your blood, warms you | 18:00 |
| tuxd3v | its amazing | 18:01 |
| tuxd3v | the adrenaline working | 18:01 |
| tuxd3v | in that moments you are very well alive | 18:01 |
| tuxd3v | but sudenly...you know, what could hapen...and unfortunaly it happened | 18:01 |
| chillfan | This is why I like physical exercise.. it can leave you feeling that way afterwards | 18:01 |
| chillfan | very beneficial all round | 18:02 |
| tuxd3v | yes | 18:02 |
| tuxd3v | true | 18:02 |
| furrywolf | every serious cyclist I know has been seriously injured at least once. it seems like a very unwise activity. | 18:02 |
| tuxd3v | well, loking now to the past | 18:03 |
| tuxd3v | ... | 18:03 |
| tuxd3v | but the feeling it gives up on that moment | 18:03 |
| Evilham | furrywolf: any living person I know has been seriously injured or ill at some point :-D, that also seems like a very unwise thing | 18:03 |
| tuxd3v | is something indescritible | 18:03 |
| Evilham | do get better, tuxd3v | 18:03 |
| tuxd3v | undescribable | 18:04 |
| Evilham | KatolaZ: I learnt that my shell abilities were not POSIX when I used FreeBSD X'D | 18:04 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 18:04 |
| furrywolf | a friend's friend broke his collarbone, another has an ankle that's half titanium, etc etc... | 18:04 |
| tuxd3v | <furrywolf>, unfortunatly, I also receive some parts of that.. | 18:05 |
| tuxd3v | :( | 18:05 |
| tuxd3v | you know.. | 18:05 |
| tuxd3v | making you feel alive too much ...can kill you | 18:05 |
| tuxd3v | thats a shame | 18:05 |
| chillfan | hahaha | 18:05 |
| tuxd3v | because the feeling you get, is beyond any words.. | 18:06 |
| chillfan | That's very apt maybe, which is the reason for laughter btw | 18:06 |
| furrywolf | try something safe, like heroin. :) | 18:07 |
| tuxd3v | I don't know, but maybe I could to another type of radical sports | 18:07 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:07 |
| tuxd3v | I am already trying to fnd a substitute | 18:07 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:07 |
| chillfan | 72 hour hackathon? | 18:07 |
| chillfan | with no sleeps or caffeine.. | 18:07 |
| chillfan | that would be somewhat racidal | 18:07 |
| chillfan | radical^ | 18:07 |
| furrywolf | lol | 18:07 |
| tuxd3v | I have already done 72 hours | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | then sleep 6 | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | work | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | sleep 6 | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | then 72 hours | 18:08 |
| chillfan | chess is a fantastic sport that provide a good feeling btw | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | 2 weeks | 18:08 |
| tuxd3v | but that kils you | 18:09 |
| furrywolf | what you just said sounds very much like what two other groups of people I know have said... heroin addicts, and bdsm subs. maybe try the latter? :) | 18:09 |
| chillfan | if it's your thing | 18:09 |
| tuxd3v | chess no radical enough | 18:09 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:09 |
| KatolaZ | 18:10 < chillfan> chess is a fantastic sport that provide a good feeling btw | 18:09 |
| KatolaZ | ^^^^^^ | 18:10 |
| tuxd3v | downhill | 18:10 |
| KatolaZ | could not agree more | 18:10 |
| tuxd3v | was my sport | 18:10 |
| KatolaZ | chess is awesome (if you have time and temper for it) | 18:10 |
| chillfan | I have competed, felt exhilarated every time | 18:10 |
| * furrywolf does not have the temper for it | 18:10 | |
| KatolaZ | chillfan: glad to know you are into chess | 18:10 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 18:10 |
| tuxd3v | chess is nice | 18:10 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:10 |
| chillfan | KatolaZ: how are you rated? | 18:10 |
| tuxd3v | kitesurf | 18:10 |
| furrywolf | I've tried playing, and about five minutes later I go into "this is a total waste of time and energy, I should do something useful" mode, and stop caring. | 18:10 |
| KatolaZ | low :D | 18:11 |
| tuxd3v | also another thing I could not do anymore | 18:11 |
| KatolaZ | around 1700 FIDE | 18:11 |
| chillfan | around average club level then, it's a great game though right? | 18:11 |
| KatolaZ | I haven't played any tournament since 2012 | 18:11 |
| KatolaZ | chillfan: where are you then? | 18:12 |
| chillfan | I haven't in 2 years, before that many years | 18:12 |
| KatolaZ | (yes, great game indeed :)) | 18:12 |
| tuxd3v | I liked the most, when you had very speed winds, and its not proper for any kite type to be in the water or land | 18:12 |
| chillfan | rating wise? I think around 1900, was 2100 once.. didn't play long enough to know if I could stay there though | 18:12 |
| furrywolf | you don't like my suggestion of trying being a sub? I have friends who say it's the absolute best rush ever. :P | 18:12 |
| tuxd3v | it was amazing, you flied a lot | 18:12 |
| tuxd3v | you experienced tremendous amount of force pushing you | 18:12 |
| KatolaZ | chillfan: 2100 is candidate master rating | 18:13 |
| KatolaZ | nice :) | 18:13 |
| tuxd3v | speeds that no one achive in a kitesurf, becasue its too much dangerous to go there with that type of winds.. | 18:13 |
| chillfan | I was very pleased with that yes, can say it's the best I'd ever played during that time | 18:13 |
| KatolaZ | bbl | 18:14 |
| KatolaZ | thanks o/ | 18:14 |
| KatolaZ | (and sorry for the OT!) | 18:15 |
| chillfan | later KatolaZ, if you have a fics account we could play a few some time ;) | 18:15 |
| tuxd3v | hehe | 18:15 |
| furrywolf | I'll play if I'm really bored and you don't mind winning in three moves. :P | 18:15 |
| KatolaZ | chillfan: yes I do, and I should still be able to login there ;) | 18:15 |
| tuxd3v | devuanchess party? | 18:16 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:16 |
| furrywolf | ... that's an actual k-line, not a /quit. lol | 18:16 |
| chillfan | Do I sense devuan chess team on fics? ;-) | 18:18 |
| * furrywolf has no idea what fics is | 18:19 | |
| tuxd3v | <furrywolf>, I don't like drugs | 18:19 |
| chillfan | see freechess.org | 18:19 |
| tuxd3v | I am against them | 18:19 |
| furrywolf | tuxd3v: neither do I. | 18:19 |
| tuxd3v | I like to fel myself in control | 18:19 |
| chillfan | requires a proper mail account though | 18:19 |
| tuxd3v | of situation | 18:19 |
| chillfan | can't sign up with webmail | 18:19 |
| furrywolf | tuxd3v: so being a sub is right up your alley? :P | 18:19 |
| tuxd3v | radical sports gives you that option | 18:19 |
| furrywolf | I haven't played chess in like 20 years, and I was never any good. I just didn't see the point in spending any time on it. | 18:20 |
| chillfan | If you feel that way, then there usually isn't | 18:20 |
| chillfan | a suitable analogy is like us who are tech geeks compared to people who use ICT as a way to post on their facebook wall | 18:21 |
| chillfan | we love tech, so we work in it and play with it.. they love posting selfies | 18:21 |
| furrywolf | lol | 18:22 |
| chillfan | same with chess, few minutes to pass some time on a rainy day.. or a deep passion for it | 18:22 |
| furrywolf | I've posted all of one selfie in 30ish years of being on the internet, and it was just a picture of my (clothed!) butt showing off a clip-on tail. | 18:22 |
| chillfan | yeah that sounds like a selfie | 18:23 |
| chillfan | anyway freechess.org is worth remembering, most of the clients are free software unlike in others | 18:24 |
| chillfan | and the absolutely amazing https://stockfishchess.org/ | 18:26 |
| chillfan | so we don't do bad for free software chess progs :p | 18:27 |
| furrywolf | there's a lot of draconian crap on that signup form... must provide real name, never allowed to change handle, never allowed to create a new account, must agree to etc etc etc. | 18:27 |
| furrywolf | all of which is 100% unenforcable. | 18:27 |
| furrywolf | but it doesn't matter anyway, since the form doesn't seem to actually work. | 18:27 |
| furrywolf | (submitting it gives a gateway timeout a minute later) | 18:28 |
| chillfan | Hm, really. When I signed up it was just required I didn't use web mail. I don't think it has my real name on it | 18:28 |
| chillfan | Not that I would give it to play a game of chess | 18:29 |
| furrywolf | my real name is Fluffy Wolf. :P | 18:29 |
| furrywolf | ... you can't log in to the website in any fashion without java? | 18:30 |
| furrywolf | and it even says you should install sun java? | 18:31 |
| furrywolf | oracle java | 18:31 |
| furrywolf | every part of interacting with this website has been shit. | 18:31 |
| furrywolf | between the policies, timeouts, and now expecting me to install crapware? | 18:31 |
| furrywolf | wait, does firefox even support java anymore? didn't the rewrite kill all netscape plugins? | 18:32 |
| furrywolf | yeah, no java possible in modern firefox. | 18:33 |
| tuxd3v | furrywolf> fun. what did you break? | 18:33 |
| furrywolf | fuck this site. | 18:33 |
| tuxd3v | my hip in the waist area | 18:34 |
| tuxd3v | but I don't know yet full damages of it.. | 18:35 |
| tuxd3v | I am waiting the final examns | 18:35 |
| tuxd3v | before operation | 18:35 |
| furrywolf | I mangled my T9-T10 in a car accident. they say they can't operate on it unless it gets so bad I'm immobile, since being permanently crippled is a common outcome. | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | lots of medical drugs in the meantime for the pain.. | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | but the pain doesn't go way.. | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | its damm dificult | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | but I will eventually prevail | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:37 |
| tuxd3v | I am sorry to hear that | 18:38 |
| tuxd3v | I also damage my spine, but not at that level | 18:39 |
| tuxd3v | you can walk ok? | 18:39 |
| tuxd3v | during how much time you can walk? | 18:39 |
| tuxd3v | this shiit problem, stopped me to go to the Devuan Event :( | 18:40 |
| furrywolf | I can walk fine... it's lifting and twisting that don't work. | 18:40 |
| furrywolf | and actually, you know, doing anything. like working on cars or building stuff, which used to be my main hobbies... | 18:41 |
| tuxd3v | I think I will be in same situation , if everything goes well | 18:41 |
| tuxd3v | its not good, but, life can always be bad | 18:41 |
| tuxd3v | yeah, that costs a lot | 18:42 |
| tuxd3v | things you love, and you will never be hable to do.. | 18:42 |
| tuxd3v | I understand you very well.. | 18:42 |
| tuxd3v | but we need to think that, it could be worst...that are guys on a bed beging for mercy, to be able to die | 18:43 |
| tuxd3v | that is a lot worst | 18:43 |
| tuxd3v | If all goes well, I would feel myself a luck guy | 18:44 |
| tuxd3v | lucky | 18:44 |
| tuxd3v | this is the way we should look at it.. | 18:45 |
| ashleyk | i eated a ham | 18:45 |
| chillfan | I'll take a ham | 18:50 |
| * furrywolf accidentally a whole ham | 18:52 | |
| * Evilham hides under table | 18:54 | |
| ashleyk | free ham under the table | 18:54 |
| tuxd3v | heheh | 18:56 |
| tuxd3v | you guys are treating youselfs well | 18:56 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 18:56 |
| * Evilham rolls away weighing 2kg less | 19:01 | |
| * chillfan takes ham from under the table | 19:36 | |
| ashleyk | the free range ham rolled away | 19:46 |
| ibanja_ | I'm experimenting with linux sound. First I ditched pulse audio completely. Then I replaced alsa with sndiod. Everything is working really nicely except I cannot connect to jackd. | 21:08 |
| ibanja_ | When I run "/usr/bin/jackd -r -dsndio -r48000 -p1024" I get jackd: unknown driver 'sndio' . sndio is listed as a jackd driver option in the jackd man page, but there is a disclamer that not all listed drivers are available on all platforms. | 21:08 |
| ibanja_ | Is sndio not available to jackd in devuan? If so, can it be compiled in and how difficult is that? | 21:08 |
| stiltr | I don't know anything about jackd, but it looks like `jack_control dl` should list the available drivers. If it's not there you'll probably have to compile it yourself. | 21:12 |
| stiltr | Sorry, just realized jack_control is a separate tool. | 21:13 |
| ibanja_ | I was just about to say I don't see jack_control d | 21:14 |
| stiltr | I'd guess you'll have to compile it yourself if it's not seeing the sndio driver. Hopefully somebody that knows jack can give a better answer. | 21:17 |
| ibanja_ | stiltr: do you know how inconvenient maintaining a package compiled from source is? | 21:17 |
| ibanja_ | I haven't tried it yet | 21:17 |
| stiltr | It depends on your environment. If it's just for one box, it's not a big deal. It won't automatically update, but other than that, it's usually just a `make && make install` sort of thing. | 21:20 |
| ibanja_ | I'm reading up on apt-src... looks like I might be learning something new here... | 21:21 |
| stiltr | Good luck! = ) | 21:24 |
| MinceR | is there sndiod for GNU/Linux? | 21:27 |
| ibanja_ | there is... it's in the devuan repo | 21:28 |
| ibanja_ | this is the link that introduced me to sndio for linux... https://escondida.tk/blargh/tech/sndio_on_linux/ | 21:29 |
| MinceR | nice | 21:36 |
| tuxd3v | ashleyk: What is the board that you have ported to Devuan? | 21:41 |
| ashleyk | i wouldnt say "ported", but nanopc t4 | 21:41 |
| ashleyk | i used sunxi rootfs | 21:42 |
| ashleyk | more or less | 21:42 |
| tuxd3v | what is the CPU there a h6? | 21:42 |
| ashleyk | uh...rockchip | 21:42 |
| tuxd3v | that is friendlyarm | 21:42 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:42 |
| ashleyk | yes | 21:43 |
| tuxd3v | RK3399 | 21:43 |
| ashleyk | yea | 21:43 |
| tuxd3v | like the RockPRO64 | 21:43 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:43 |
| tuxd3v | I would be glad to add it to the sdk | 21:45 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:45 |
| tuxd3v | When I start doing stuff for rockchip boards | 21:45 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:45 |
| tuxd3v | I am planning to add a initial menu | 21:46 |
| tuxd3v | 0 arm | 21:46 |
| tuxd3v | 1 mips | 21:46 |
| tuxd3v | 3 something else | 21:46 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:46 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> 0 ARMV7 | 21:47 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> 1 ARMV8 | 21:47 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> ARMV8 -> Allwinner | 21:48 |
| tuxd3v | no wrong | 21:48 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> 0 Allwinner | 21:48 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> 1 Allwinner | 21:48 |
| tuxd3v | 0 -> 1 RockChip | 21:48 |
| tuxd3v | and so on .. | 21:49 |
| tuxd3v | 1 -> 0 BaikalElectronics | 21:50 |
| tuxd3v | and so on .. | 21:50 |
| tuxd3v | at the moment: | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "0" "Build Devuan Release Image" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "1" "Write Devuan to media-disk .." \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "2" "Download/Install CrossCompiler ToolChain .." \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "3" "Build Uboot" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "4" "Build Linux Kernel & Modules" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "5" "Update Uboot" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "6" "Update kernel Image" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "7" "Update Module" \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "8" "Updating GitHub SDK .." \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | "9" "Updating SDK .." \ | 22:03 |
| tuxd3v | but this only for arm ...at least yet | 22:04 |
| chillfan | that's a good start :) | 22:07 |
| tuxd3v | but its not all yet working | 22:07 |
| tuxd3v | Download/install toolchain in OK | 22:07 |
| tuxd3v | Build uboot | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | ok | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | Build Kernel OK | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | 0 is working but semi-manuall lool | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | not yet completly finished | 22:09 |
| tuxd3v | option 1 needs some love because server images are too big now | 22:09 |
| tuxd3v | 1.3GB of sdcard required.. | 22:09 |
| tuxd3v | the image is not that size ofcourse | 22:09 |
| tuxd3v | but when created it creates it at that size..need bether calculations.. | 22:10 |
| tuxd3v | 5,6,7 is low priority for now | 22:10 |
| tuxd3v | when I think its relativly ready, I will publish it | 22:11 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 22:11 |
| tuxd3v | so that you guys can help on testing.. | 22:12 |
| tuxd3v | yes? | 22:12 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 22:12 |
| stiltr | Sounds good! | 22:25 |
| tuxd3v | there are still some things here and there to fix, but it starts to take real shape | 22:26 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 22:26 |
| tuxd3v | the interface | 22:26 |
| tuxd3v | is based on whiptail | 22:26 |
| tuxd3v | which alsi is the default on Devuan | 22:26 |
| chillfan | so advantage is the ease of use | 22:27 |
| tuxd3v | its automated | 22:27 |
| tuxd3v | you only need to acept or reject options it will shows | 22:27 |
| tuxd3v | there are 2 options for Devuan OS | 22:27 |
| tuxd3v | Server | 22:28 |
| tuxd3v | Desktop | 22:28 |
| ErRandir | Looks a bit like buildroot to me | 23:22 |
| tuxd3v | I never used buildroot | 23:32 |
| tuxd3v | but I reached the web and it seems a nice thing | 23:32 |
| tuxd3v | buildroot has lots of supported boards.. | 23:37 |
| tuxd3v | for what it seems its Makefile based and it has also yml | 23:37 |
| tuxd3v | and maybe to build auto-tools? | 23:38 |
| tuxd3v | looking at it..I am a bit disapointed with my work :S | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | :D | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | but it seems a bit desorganized | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | what you guys think? | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | Maybe I can get some ideias from it | 23:49 |
| tuxd3v | ErRandir: thanks for the tip | 23:49 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 23:49 |
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