barrett9h | gnarface, Evilham, systemdlete: just came back home, woke up my desktop (was pm-suspended), and voila, I can ping github.com. I haven't touched anything, it's like it came back online | 00:55 |
---|---|---|
barrett9h | (the issue is obviously not gone, I'm just illustrating the intermittent behavior) | 00:56 |
slvr | if I were you, I'd be tcpdumping to log the problem. | 01:04 |
gnarface | barrett9h: seconded on the tcpdump thing | 01:26 |
gnarface | just have it log errors or something like that, try to figure out where those packets are going and where exactly they're falling off the stack | 01:27 |
slvr | I'm interested in knowing if they are retransmitted with or without errors | 01:33 |
gnarface | if it is a ISP-provided plastic router box, i think there is the possibility this is their/its fault | 01:38 |
slvr | the unique client behavior among other devices disagrees, but it's possible. | 01:39 |
gnarface | it would be weird and could suggest sabotage | 01:39 |
gnarface | i also wonder about intermittent secondary network device presence (bluetooth devices coming online temporarily?) | 01:40 |
gnarface | the single-domain, single-host issue would also heavily suggest sabotage in that case as well though | 01:41 |
slvr | github mitm? | 01:41 |
gnarface | like a failed attempt at it, yea | 01:41 |
gnarface | or someone poking around trying to establish one | 01:41 |
gnarface | i know that's starting to get a little paranoid, but github is a high-profile target, and they've been hit repeatedly and recently | 01:42 |
slvr | My money is still on "ip conflict" | 01:43 |
gnarface | in the case of a ISP-managed plastic router box, this could just as theoretically represent some hamfisted attempt by their staff to mitigate some ongoing DDOS attack of some sort coming from that region | 01:44 |
gnarface | but yea, you could be right. IP conflict seems just as likely. it's really easy to accidentally get a rogue DHCP server on your LAN if you plug in too many windows boxes | 01:45 |
gnarface | maybe Macs do that too in some configurations actually | 01:45 |
gnarface | i forget now | 01:45 |
gnarface | but it's probably worth noting that physical switch failure could look exactly the same | 01:46 |
gnarface | barrett9h: you're not using a local DNS server, are you? if you are, make sure that machine has ntpd running too... | 02:12 |
Xenguy | gnarface: Do you use unbound at all? | 02:46 |
Xenguy | fsmithred: I hope you are a proud fellow, I remember the pictures I saw of you folks, and it was just lovely to see | 02:49 |
gnarface | Xenguy: no, just using bind9 | 02:49 |
Xenguy | gnarface: OK, just checking, I'm looking at this unbound DNS tool which claims to be a caching DNS thingie | 02:50 |
gnarface | Xenguy: i used to use dnsmasq for that | 02:51 |
Xenguy | Yeah, this unbound sounds more recent/NG | 02:51 |
Xenguy | For better or for worse | 02:52 |
fsmithred | I think I'm using unbound | 02:55 |
fsmithred | I believe I installed it and forgot all about it | 02:56 |
fsmithred | ok, it's installed and running. How do I know if it's helping? | 02:56 |
gnarface | DNS lookups will be nearly instantaneous | 02:57 |
gnarface | whereas your common cheap ISP might have overloaded DNS servers that easily add 50-100ms to lookups | 02:58 |
fsmithred | I can run nslookup to check that? | 02:58 |
gnarface | sure | 02:58 |
fsmithred | time says 0.294s | 02:59 |
gnarface | you mean ms? | 02:59 |
fsmithred | real0m0.029s | 02:59 |
fsmithred | different number 'cause it was a different run | 03:00 |
fsmithred | how is that read? | 03:00 |
gnarface | hmm. maybe nslookup isn't the best test | 03:01 |
gnarface | where you'll typically notice a big difference is stuff like log parsing involving reverse name lookups in batches and such | 03:01 |
gnarface | but like i said, if your ISP's DNS servers are really slow, you could actually notice the difference just clicking on links in firefox | 03:02 |
fsmithred | well, I think they suck for other reasons than slowness | 03:02 |
fsmithred | browsing in firefox has seemed unusually slow for about the last year or so. Maybe a little longer. | 03:03 |
specing | fsmithred: do you have nscd? | 03:04 |
fsmithred | ok, I just clicked on some links I haven't been to in a long time, and they loaded very quickly. | 03:05 |
fsmithred | no ncsd | 03:05 |
fsmithred | don't know about it | 03:05 |
specing | fsmithred: its glibc's resolver | 03:06 |
Xenguy | Enough, I'm watching the last ever episode of GoT | 03:06 |
Xenguy | The soap opera we're all allowed to talk about | 03:07 |
barrett9h | slvr, gnarface: other machines on my local network work ok. even my own machine, running a liveusb distro. so the problem is with the software on my pc, not the router or my ip. (and no, i'm not using a local dns. and the problem is not the dns anyway) | 03:24 |
barrett9h | maybe I'll try this tcpdump thing later. I really have a lot of work to do now.. | 03:25 |
Xenguy | Cheers | 03:29 |
Syllin | anyone know how to get sftp:// working with thunar? all the docs online i see are for gnome | 04:06 |
Syllin | presently, i get a red "no way" icon when i type "sftp://me@server.net//" | 04:06 |
gnarface | Syllin: i don't use thunar, but could it simply be a plugin or module of some sort that is in another package you need to install? | 04:13 |
systemdlete | does devuan always install systems for sudo rather than su, if taking all the instalation ISO defaults? | 06:21 |
systemdlete | has it always been that way on devuan, at least ascii? | 06:21 |
systemdlete | (silly question I know, but I'm puzzled by something here) | 06:22 |
gnarface | it has been so long since i've done a non-expert-mode install that i honestly don't know | 06:25 |
gnarface | in expert mode it asks you though | 06:25 |
gnarface | whether to create a root account password or not | 06:25 |
gnarface | i'm pretty sure anyway | 06:25 |
systemdlete | ok, thanks. That might be the difference. I installed test box with root account and this box without it (I am guessing) | 06:26 |
systemdlete | gotta take down my connection for a moment... | 06:28 |
golinux | systemdlete: su is the default in Devuan/Debian. You have to configure it to use sudo (which I never have) | 06:50 |
systemdlete | I used the installer, but not in expert mode. Somehow I have sudo, not a root login | 06:50 |
systemdlete | I don't recall being asked. I only installed ascii on my main box a few days ago (friday I think) | 06:51 |
systemdlete | but actually, I am more interested in my vbox question. What prevents me from installing the debian version from virtualbox.org? | 06:52 |
gnarface | probably requires systemd | 06:53 |
systemdlete | what I figured... | 06:53 |
gnarface | i think the sudo thing might really be linked to whether you create a root password or not. i think it infers what you want from that | 06:53 |
systemdlete | sure. I don't remember if it asked me for a root password, only for the admin user password, during the install | 06:54 |
systemdlete | the only "expert" task I performed during install was the partitioning step. | 06:54 |
systemdlete | Everything else I more or less chose defaults. | 06:54 |
gnarface | hmm | 06:54 |
gnarface | maybe it's that it asks whether you want to create a non-root user, and infers from THAT | 06:55 |
gnarface | i am not sure | 06:55 |
gnarface | i don't remember it ever being that confusing though, i'm sure if you go through it again paying attention to that step it'll make more sense though | 06:55 |
systemdlete | well, this is really a bit of a nit I can always run passwd in a "sudo bash" (which is how I get a root env anyway) | 06:56 |
gnarface | people in here have a solution to the virtualbox thing too | 06:56 |
systemdlete | it's called libvirt and KVM | 06:56 |
systemdlete | I know. | 06:56 |
systemdlete | or xen, maybe. | 06:56 |
gnarface | no no, i think they actually have a virtualbox solution, though it may be just to use the wheezy version. | 06:56 |
gnarface | my advise is to use qemu-kvm though, yes | 06:57 |
gnarface | though i never liked libvirt and quickly grew out of it while trying to debug it | 06:57 |
systemdlete | eh, no. I wouldn't. For one thing, getting vbox support will be an uphill battle. And sometimes you have to get support for hairy issues, ones only they can help you with. | 06:57 |
systemdlete | If you're more than about 2 or 3 point releases behind either 5.2 or 6.0 (or whatever versions they are supporting), they will push you to upgrade. | 06:58 |
gnarface | someone might have built a updated non-systemd version | 06:58 |
gnarface | of virtualbox | 06:58 |
systemdlete | So I prefer to stay somewhat current. | 06:58 |
systemdlete | someone at devuan? Or someone somewhere else? | 06:59 |
gnarface | well, someone who hangs out in this channel | 06:59 |
systemdlete | oh, ok. | 06:59 |
systemdlete | :) | 06:59 |
gnarface | i just remember that it has come up before | 07:00 |
systemdlete | I think the worst I've seen installing from virtualbox.org are some horror messages about systemctl not found. But it completes without incident and the tool runs fine. | 07:00 |
systemdlete | s/horror/error/ | 07:00 |
gnarface | sometimes the bigger risk is just package dependency breakage | 07:01 |
gnarface | like, it might work fine now, but sabotage a later update/upgrade of other stuff | 07:01 |
gnarface | especially if you accidentally get other stuff from their repo | 07:02 |
gnarface | like if it replaces some additional devuan native packages with the debian ones | 07:02 |
systemdlete | I don't have any of that with the other distros, like CentOS. I installed the generic version (which is really CentOS) on hyperbola (which is nonsystemd arch linux) without a problem | 07:02 |
gnarface | well it often doesn't become apparent until you're upgrading to a new release | 07:02 |
systemdlete | It doesn't do that. It only offers their package, built against the various platforms | 07:03 |
gnarface | this is general advise against mixing repos and distros, i have no virtualbox-specific experience here | 07:03 |
gnarface | (the debian sid version of wine-staging works fine on devuan ceres too) | 07:03 |
systemdlete | First off, virtualbox.org builds its software package against "standard" distros, and even downstream spins work OK with it | 07:04 |
gnarface | eh, as long as you're sure, just try it | 07:04 |
gnarface | but don't forget i recommended you make a backup first :) | 07:04 |
gnarface | i've nuked a couple debian installs in my day | 07:04 |
gnarface | cavalierly mixing repos | 07:05 |
gnarface | (and it's rarely obvious until months later) | 07:05 |
systemdlete | I mean, I could ask them. But, see, this is where the chicken-and-egg comes in. They won't be thrilled to assist me in installing an old point release | 07:05 |
golinux | systemdlete: I have http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ in my sources.list and it works just fine. | 07:05 |
gnarface | yea and they'll probably give you attitude for not using debian | 07:05 |
systemdlete | virtualbox doesn't really provide a repo, per se | 07:05 |
systemdlete | How did WE become the Unix weirdos? It's the systemd crowd that should be made to cower, not us. | 07:06 |
gnarface | we don't have a megacorp funding us | 07:06 |
golinux | This is getting into political OT guys . . . | 07:07 |
gnarface | good point | 07:07 |
systemdlete | golinux: It's really about support. Sorry for getting OT | 07:07 |
systemdlete | but really, it's the whole reason we are here, and there is a distro. | 07:08 |
systemdlete | but golinux. I'll try adding that to my sources. I wouldn't think there'd be a problem. | 07:08 |
golinux | Yeah I know. I've been at it here for over 4 years. | 07:08 |
systemdlete | Is virtualbox a package in debian also, or just devuan? | 07:09 |
golinux | I have non-free and contrib enabled too | 07:09 |
golinux | It comes directly from Oracle. At least that's where I get it because I need usb support. | 07:09 |
golinux | I think that Devuan has a version in contib or backports or both. | 07:10 |
golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ is your friend. | 07:10 |
systemdlete | The repository 'http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian ascii Release' does not have a Release file. | 07:11 |
systemdlete | my sources.list line I added: | 07:12 |
systemdlete | deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ ascii main non-free | 07:12 |
systemdlete | (I have no idea if that's even half-right | 07:12 |
rrq | http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian stretch/contrib | 07:14 |
systemdlete | for ascii? | 07:14 |
systemdlete | ok, thanks | 07:14 |
rrq | that gives you 6.0.8-130520~Debian~stretch | 07:14 |
rrq | there's also http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres/contrib | 07:14 |
rrq | which gives 6.0.8-dfsg-4 | 07:15 |
golinux | Look in backports in ascii | 07:15 |
rrq | yes that's 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1 | 07:15 |
golinux | [ascii-backports] virtualbox-5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1 | 07:15 |
golinux | You're too fast . . . | 07:15 |
systemdlete | so now my deb line is: | 07:16 |
rrq | or jessie/contrib which is 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1 | 07:16 |
systemdlete | deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ stretch/contrib | 07:16 |
systemdlete | it fails with a syntax error or something. It doesn't like that | 07:16 |
golinux | No / between stretch and contrib | 07:16 |
rrq | (gnarface mentioned backups) | 07:17 |
systemdlete | backups of what -- GBs of VM images? | 07:18 |
systemdlete | not likely. At least not here. | 07:18 |
systemdlete | good advice in most circumstances, but here I'd only backup the xml and other config files. I don't have space for the images | 07:18 |
systemdlete | I've used the VirtualBox versions from their site on other distros without problems in the past. I doubt there could be that much incompatibility. | 07:19 |
systemdlete | Besides, I've actually just copied all my VMs from another RAID so there are plenty of copies that are only a few days old anyway. | 07:20 |
systemdlete | now, it is complaining that there is no public key and it can't authenticate | 07:20 |
systemdlete | rrq: vbox 4 is no longer supported and hasn't been for a couple of years | 07:26 |
systemdlete | they only support their latest version and one back. As soon as they put out a new version, like 6.0, they kill 4. | 07:27 |
systemdlete | r.x | 07:27 |
systemdlete | 4.x | 07:27 |
systemdlete | I would not recommend anyone use that old a version of vbox given their support policy. | 07:27 |
systemdlete | On the devuan.org page, it might be helpful to include the debian release number. I sometimes forget which is which, given I am not a longtime debian user (I'm a pre-RH7/CentOS7 refugee) | 07:36 |
systemdlete | so I am not as familiar with the release numbers and need a head jogger sometimes | 07:36 |
systemdlete | just a suggestion | 07:36 |
systemdlete | they give a link for the debian 8 public key, but not debian 9 | 07:39 |
systemdlete | printer test page (cups) still shows debian logo. No biggie, just saying. | 09:52 |
GyrosGeier | hi | 12:11 |
GyrosGeier | I have a Debian box and would like to use pbuilder to compile packages in a Devuan chroot | 12:12 |
GyrosGeier | in principle, if systemd isn't available, regular debootstrap should find a working installation set from Devuan sources | 12:13 |
GyrosGeier | but it's missing an installation script for "ascii" | 12:13 |
KatolaZ | GyrosGeier: get the ascii script from the devuan package for debootstrap | 12:14 |
GyrosGeier | mmh | 12:14 |
GyrosGeier | can that package still bootstrap Debian images? | 12:14 |
KatolaZ | sure it can | 12:14 |
GyrosGeier | because if I don't break the autobuilder that way, I can just take the whole debootstrap package from Devuan | 12:15 |
GyrosGeier | cool, seems to work | 12:17 |
GyrosGeier | thanks! | 12:17 |
KatolaZ | np | 12:27 |
Evilham | systemdlete: you can propose changes to the webpage in the form of 'Merge Requests' :-D http://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/ | 13:05 |
* man_in_shack waddles around | 15:32 | |
man_in_shack | anyone use adb on devuan in here? | 15:32 |
rrq | it happens, yes | 15:46 |
man_in_shack | whee netsplit | 16:19 |
man_in_shack | so i'm getting an error with adb | 16:20 |
man_in_shack | error: could not install *smartsocket* listener: Cannot assign requested address | 16:20 |
man_in_shack | anyone encountered this before? | 16:20 |
golinux_ | <systemdlete> said: printer test page (cups) still shows debian logo. No biggie, just saying. | 18:42 |
golinux_ | Someone prepared Devuan printer test pages some time ago. No one has taken up the task to fork and maintain the cups pkgs required to fix it. | 18:44 |
golinux | Cosmetic changes are not a high priority. | 18:45 |
Evilham | I find branding-only package forks silly where not strictly necessary, it opens the door for unmaintained old debs that are full of security bugs fixed somewhere else | 18:46 |
Evilham | so, if that's the only issue with cupsd, that's fine :-p | 18:46 |
golinux | Exactly. | 18:47 |
Syllin | anyone else having problems with wifi disconnected when waking from sleep or suspend? | 20:34 |
Syllin | i have to manually go in and reconnect in the wicd UI | 20:34 |
Syllin | man_in_shack do you mean android debug bridge? try `sudo adb kill-server; sudo adb start-server` to make sure the daemon is running as root | 20:36 |
fsmithred | Syllin, yeah lose connection when I suspend | 20:38 |
fsmithred | I think it happens with wired connection, too | 20:38 |
golinux | My wired connection comes right back up | 20:47 |
furrywolf | wicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever. for sleep/suspend, I find it only reconnects if it's _not_ open at the time. | 20:54 |
furrywolf | I've been looking for something else to use. | 20:54 |
fsmithred | I've heard good things about connman | 20:55 |
furrywolf | conmen always say good things about themselves. :P | 20:55 |
specing | use badvpn-ncd | 20:55 |
fsmithred | lol | 20:55 |
fsmithred | bbiab | 20:56 |
golinux | furrywolf: wired wicd works just fine here | 20:57 |
furrywolf | heh, I had to explicitly make wicd not touch my wired interface, by giving it a fake interface name, because its incompetence-by-design broke my wired if I let it touch it. | 20:58 |
MinceR | > wicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever. | 21:33 |
MinceR | not as bad as networkmanager! :> | 21:33 |
slvr | managing wpa-supplicient configs manually works well if wicd is a pain | 21:39 |
MinceR | wpa_cli crashes a lot, though | 21:41 |
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