libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2019-08-21

eyalrozHello everyone...09:31
eyalrozI was wondering if anyone else has experienced mysterious crashes of Chrome extensions recently.09:31
eyalrozAfter my latest apt-get dist-upgrade, my uBlock Origin and EFF Privacy Badger crash on startup, and immediately after being reloaded09:32
eyalrozs/Chrome/Chromium09:32
klaushi all17:57
nemog'day17:58
nemoou.. bonjour.17:58
klausbonjour :)17:58
klausi was wondering if runit was easy to switch to in devuan and if that was a working choice at the moment, or more like a work in progress ?18:00
klausand also, is it possible to use kernels from mainline kernel ( https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline ) and if not, does devuan have something similar, to be able to install recent kernels ?18:01
James1138Yes. I use the kernel all the time to update.18:03
James1138Right now I am using v4.9.189 kernel from the website.18:03
klausi was thinking more like 5.2.x or even 5.3.x.rc18:05
klausJames1138: but so, you mean it's possible for devuan to install those kernels from kernel-ppa/mainline ?18:06
klausif yes then that's good18:06
James1138Correct Klaus. After installing, run "sudo update-grub" from terminal before reboot. Then remove the older kernel (I use Synaptic to completely remove) and the run "sudo update-grub" again for good measure.18:08
klausvery good18:08
James1138I meant to say "remove older kernel after reboot".18:08
klausright now i'm testing artix (arch without the virus, i mean systemd) but i'm also tempted by giving devuan a try. what you tell me is encouraging18:09
klausyes i understood18:10
James1138Klaus... over many ...many years, I tried Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Linux Mint, straight Debian, WattOS, and even ZorinOS.  However, I found Devuan XFCE the most stable of the bunch and with XFCE desktop - my Lenovo Thinkpad T500 feels really responsive.18:15
klausi'm an i3 user, i like tiling wm, i remove the display manager, log into tty then usualy configure .xinitrc and startx from there18:16
klausi tried many distro too over the years, what you say about devuan sounds nice18:17
klausi'll have to get the iso and try to see if i keep sysvinit or if i try to use runit18:18
James1138Klaus, here is the link to the ISO - https://www.debian.org/CD/18:21
klausJames1138: well thanks i think i gonna do that right now18:21
James1138(y)18:21
klausyou meant "devuan" though, no ?18:22
klausyou wrote debian18:23
James1138MY BAD!!  https://devuan.org/get-devuan  Klaus... just wondering - are you installing Devuan on laptop or desktop18:24
klaushehe18:24
klauslaptop18:24
klausa bad one at that .. it's a macbookpro (2015)18:24
klaususing linux as single os18:24
klausit is possible to use a minimal-live and install, build up a working system from that ?18:27
klausi mean rather than getting a full desktop-live, install,  and removing everything from there18:27
buZzklaus: yes18:28
klausif minimal-live is installable, and have apt working ..18:28
buZzimho its the recommended method :)18:28
klausthanks buZz18:28
buZzi wouldnt use a live distro to install though18:28
buZzbut netinst18:29
klausvery good then :)18:29
James1138Laptop - I suggest XFCE desktop - it is the least demanding on the laptop hardware. My T500 was made back in 2008 - but I can stack it next to more moden stuff.18:29
buZzJames1138: fluxbox uses less cpu cycles18:29
buZz:)18:29
buZzopenbox even less18:29
klausi just hope my wifi chip will be working (brcmfmac)18:29
klausi3 ..18:30
James1138XFCE gives me more options than Fluxbox or Openbox - weather indicators, alarm clocks, etc.18:30
buZzJames1138: those -all- take cpu cycles you could use to run your webbrowser faster18:31
buZz:)18:31
James1138Klaus - get the full desktop ISO. Easier to remove stuff you do not want if accidently installed rather than trying to add it later on.18:31
buZzJames1138: he doesnt want that ;)18:31
klausi use i3blocks and dunst for having those indicators18:32
klausi'll try the netinstall then if that doesn't go well with my wifi chip i'll try using desktop-live and remove the bloat later18:33
James1138ok.18:33
klausso there is two choice i see ? ascii or jessie ?18:35
James1138ASCII18:35
klausk18:35
klausi need to manually download this driver: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=broadcom&release=ascii19:05
klausi can't see a download option on that page, the minimal installer doesn't offer the broadcom-sta (wl) driver but it says i can plug external disk to get the driver from it19:06
klauswhere can i download that ?19:07
golinuxIt should be in the non-free section of the repos19:07
klausthe wifi chip on that other machine is a bcm436019:07
klausgolinux: i don't have access to the repo yet, i'm at the installer19:08
klausfrom the installer i can get a shell, but since it's the wifi driver i'm missing i don't have internet19:08
klausi can use another machine to try to get the driver on an external drive maybe that's what i'm trying to do19:09
fsmithredklaus, the firmware package for that broadcom only contains an installer19:09
fsmithredyou need internet to install the actual driver19:09
fsmithredif you search the dng mailing list archives, you can find an account of how to do this without an ethernet cable19:10
klausfsmithred: i have another machine, maybe i can do something from it ?19:10
fsmithredyes19:10
fsmithredsorry I don't have more concrete information19:10
klausit's already good to know something can be done, thanks for telling19:11
fsmithredI might even have the file you need. Checking old email.19:12
fsmithredif not, there are several places to download it19:13
klausfsmithred: i'd be interested if you find the file or a link to get it19:13
klaus(x86_64 here)19:13
James1138Here is a possible source for Broadcom drivers...   https://pkgs.org/download/broadcom19:15
fsmithredand here's another: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#devicefirmware19:15
klauswould getting the debian deb package for it works with devuan ?19:19
klauslike this one for debian 10 https://debian.pkgs.org/10/debian-nonfree-amd64/broadcom-sta-common_6.30.223.271-10_all.deb.html19:19
fsmithredit's the same package. We merge the debian repo with our own, so most of the packages are identical.19:22
fsmithredback in 15 min.19:22
klausso i can try to give that package to the minimal installer via external drive ?19:23
klausthat other laptop i'm trying to put devuan on requires more drivers than the minimal installer have.. the touchpad also doesn't seem to work, too bad for the minimal install. i'll try with a full desktop-live.19:34
James1138(y)19:34
klausi know that laptop is a bit exotic..19:34
fsmithredklaus, I'm pretty sure the driver you need is not in the live isos19:36
James1138Klaus... still looking for Broadcom driver??19:36
klausyes19:38
fsmithredand when you say "minimal install" do you mean the netinstal iso or the minimal-live iso?19:38
klausbut i'll need a touchpad driver too..that old laptop is a pain..(macbookair 2013)19:38
James1138Okay - here is a link with a big list that should work on Debian/Ubuntu...   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx19:38
klausapparently the minimal installer doesn't take debs from the external drive19:39
James1138https://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad19:39
klausam i suppose to unpack the deb or something ?19:39
klaus*supposed19:40
James1138Yes. There is also for touchpads... https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/input/devices/elantech.html19:40
klausfsmithred: i mean the netinstall iso19:40
fsmithredok, thanks19:40
klaussorry for the confusion19:40
fsmithrednp19:40
fsmithredhappens all the time19:40
James1138https://pkgs.org/download/touchpad19:41
golinuxWhy do you keep posting links to repos external to devuan?19:44
fsmithredso he can download the firmware and install it19:44
fsmithredsome broadcom drivers require that you have an internet connection to get the driver that gives you an internet connection19:45
James1138I had to do the same with my Thinkpad T500. Keep in mind Golinux - our laptops are OLD. Firmware updates are required.19:46
fsmithredWe would have included it in the live isos except the license agreement requires us to pay for any legal expenses that come up.19:46
klausfsmithred: maybe put a link to it and explain how to have it ready on an external drive, for the netinstall to get and use it ?19:47
James1138I personally had to also install Intel Microcode as well as firmware to be safe.19:47
fsmithredthe easiest solution is to use an ethernet cable and install from repo19:47
fsmithredbut not everyone can do that19:47
klausi mean, trying to avoid to pay and letting the users how they can manage the problem, best of both world ?19:47
fsmithredyeah, that might work19:48
James1138You hit is on the nose Klaus.19:48
fsmithredI have an email that contains instructions, but it's long and also contains a lot of unnecessary commentary19:48
klausyes, i have two laptop none of them has ethernet19:48
James1138ouch! My laptop is over 10 years old and has ethernet!19:49
golinuxI have never used wifi.  Always wired19:49
klausi can say, the netinstall, i also tried the graphical mode, just to see, and it's there i noticed the touchpad wasn't working. on the desktop-live iso, it is working well though19:50
fsmithredif you can find an earlier desktop-live iso (maybe at archive.org) you might get one that has the driver installed.19:51
fsmithrednot sure if that was beta or rc119:51
James1138But... usually xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package should handle the issue of touchpad... most of the time.19:51
buZzohh, i wonder if i'm using that?20:07
buZzi am not :O20:07
buZzhttps://packages.debian.org/jessie/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics20:08
buZznice featurelist20:08
James1138(y)20:09
fsmithredklaus, this one might work: https://web.archive.org/web/20180214220344/https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/desktop-live/20:23
klausfsmithred: thanks, i look20:24
klausiso isn't downloadable from wayback machine20:26
klausthey just have the html page20:27
klausi went and installed the system anyway, now i try to gather the needed packages to manually install with dpkg20:29
klausif there was an iso with working driver i'd use that and reinstall, but in the meantime i was trying like that20:30
klausi see the package broadcom-sta-common_6.30.223.271-10_all.deb just contain docs and a .conf file for the module20:30
klausbut no actual module20:31
klausmaybe i need another package, a firmware-something20:31
klausi don't know yet.. i'm trying stuffs20:31
klaus;)20:31
James1138http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/b/broadcom-sta/20:32
klausJames1138: yes i have those 3 packages (all, source, and dkms) but they requiere me to find and gather a few others they depend on20:34
klauslike the dkms one wants well, dkms, and the source one wants make and gcc20:35
klausand such20:35
klausi'm back in the 90s gettings packages needed manually one by one ;)20:35
James1138dep: dkms (>= 2.1.0.0)Dynamic Kernel Module Support Frameworkrec: wireless-toolsTools for manipulating Linux Wireless Extensionsrec: broadcom-sta-sourceSource for the Broadcom STA Wireless driverrec: module-assistanttool to make module package creation easierdep: debhelper (>= 8)helper programs for debian/rulesdep: makeutility for directing compila20:38
James1138tionalso a virtual package provided by make-guiledep: xz-utilsXZ-format compression utilitiesrec: module-assistanttool to make module package creation easier20:38
klausapt-cache depends <package> gives a shorter list, but yes xz-utils, module-assistant, make, make-guile, debhelper,20:39
klausi think that's it20:40
klausi hope all those packages don't have too much depencies themselves20:40
klausit would have been simplier to do this from a running debian machine20:41
klausi could have got all the needed packages in one shot20:41
klausput them on external drive and done20:42
fsmithredit's not the packages you need, it's the actual driver you need.20:42
fsmithredthe packages just download the driver20:42
klausfsmithred: then i don't know what to do in that case ?20:44
klausi have the broadcom-sta-dkms, and broadcom-sta-source, i thought that if i get dkms installed it would build a working module, no?20:45
klausit's just that for dkms to build a working module i also need make and a few other packages, am i doing something wrong ?20:47
klausif you have a better idea, i'm all ears20:47
klausor the expression is : 'i'm all hear' .. 'i'm all ear' i dunno well you see what i mean ;)20:48
golinux"i'm all ears" is the winner20:49
golinuxI wish I could help but I've never had to deal with wifi.20:50
fsmithredklaus, I'm going to paste that long email for you. It was meant to be a post to dng mailing list, but it never got there, and the rest of the discussion has been deleted.20:51
klausfsmithred: thanks if you want i can give you my mail in /query20:52
klausor you can paste it on some pastebin, you'll tell me what you prefer20:53
fsmithredhttps://paste.debian.net/1096864/20:53
golinuxOMG . . . the line didn't wrap!21:01
fsmithredwrapped: https://paste.debian.net/1096866/21:14
klausi wonder if it wouldn't be simplier to get ubuntu iso, mount the squashfs file and get the firmware from there21:25
klausis there a way to install build-essential  from the desktop-live iso ?21:35
klausi haven't seen it ?21:35
kompowiec2when i try mounted whatever i have error "not autorized to perform operation" and i must mount manually from terminal. I tried to remove applications which in theory that could block it as like gparted, mate but to no avail. This is not a coincidence with the modified package policykit?21:38
kompowiec2if yes, what should I change in it?21:39
klaushmm the desktop live should contain make and dkms this is too bad it isn't available21:47
klausi can't build the module without it, if i try to build from another system is won't work21:50
klausfsmithred: what should i do with those files created with: sudo b43-fwcutter -w ./firmware1 ./broadcom-wl-5.100.138/linux/wl_apsta.o22:01
klaus?22:01
kompowiec2lib/firmware ?22:01
klausi have an installed system, should i place them in /lib/firmware or something?22:02
kompowiec2i have broadcom and remember that lib firmware was22:02
klausyes but where exactly ..?22:02
kompowiec2b43-fwcutter -w /lib/firmware /linux/wl_apsta.o22:03
kompowiec2then22:03
kompowiec2modprobe b4322:03
kompowiec2and reboot22:03
klausthat command (b43-cutter) create 150 files22:04
klausshould i just dumb them like that in /lib/firmware ? that seem wrong ?22:04
klaus*dump22:04
kompowiec2I used to do this and it worked. In slackaware in slackbulid blurs marks with the help of strp command22:05
kompowiec2strip command*22:06
klauswell, ok i'll try22:06
kompowiec2klaus: from what I remember officla devuan installer iso have non-free firmware included by default - and I didn't have to deal with installing the drivers for broadcom22:08
kompowiec2officla*22:08
kompowiec2official*22:08
klauskompowiec2: apparently it doesn't have this one or i missed something22:11
kompowiec2possible22:11
kompowiec2but i know that b43 package should be22:11
klausit's broadcom-sta (wl) for me22:12
kompowiec2oh well22:13
klausand putting all the firmware in /lib/firmware didn't help, the adapter is not recognized, i can't modprobe wl, and nothing works ;)22:14
kompowiec2https://wiki.debian.org/wl#Supported_Devices22:14
klausit works on ubuntu and debian22:15
kompowiec2does exists some packages for broadcom22:15
klausyes, it exists the "broadcom-sta" packages22:15
kompowiec2dmks ;)22:16
klausi can't22:16
klausi have no internet and make isn't installed22:16
kompowiec2broadcom-sta-dkms internet required? Thats sucks22:16
klausit require make22:16
klausand gcc22:16
klausand few other things22:16
klausthat are not installed by default22:17
kompowiec2It works for me and have gcc and make22:17
kompowiec2tbh without compiler you won't do much unless22:18
klausi have no compiler because it is not installed from the iso22:19
klausif i had make, then dkms would work22:19
klausno make -> no dkms22:19
klausno internet -> no make22:19
kompowiec2i remember when first install slackare and noto install compiler, ugh22:20
kompowiec2slackware and not*22:20
klausi tried android usb tethering, it doesn't work either22:20
kompowiec2I couldn't get to the internet without it.22:20
kompowiec2i think that the worst option remains: connect via ethernet22:21
klausah finaly android usb tethering works22:27
kompowiec2nice to hear that22:27
klausnow i need to enable non-free repo22:27
klausif there is such q thing22:28
klausa22:28
kompowiec2etc sources.list and add non-free22:28
klausit is : deb http://----devuan---- ascii-non-free main ?22:30
klausor "ascii non-free"  ?22:30
klausor "ascii main non-free" maybe ?22:32
klauswould that work: sudo apt-add-repository non-free  ?22:32
buZzdeb http://nl.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free contrib22:34
buZzthats what i got22:34
buZzand works22:34
klausthanks buZz22:34
James1138Klaus.. also (using Synaptic), go to "settings" and "repositories" - then add url "http://deb.debian.org/debian/"     distribution  "stretch-backports"  sections "main contrib non-free"22:36
klausi prefer without synaptic22:38
klausbut thanks for telling22:38
klausit was a bit of a chicken and egg problem22:39
klausno make -> no internet, no internet -> no make ;)22:39
James1138X)22:40
klausfsmithred: maybe idealy something could be made, like a script on any working computer to grad the firmware from debian or ubuntu and make an iso out of them, ready to be burned to an external disk with dd,22:59
klausthat iso should probably have a fat32 system from what i read22:59
klausso : "dd if=./that_file.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M" and you have something ready to feed to the netinstall23:00
klaus*grad -> GRAB i meant23:02
klausso that way, you get these files from debian or ubuntu, you are not requiered to pay fee, and the devuan users get a convenient way of having support for their non-free devices23:03
klausit's just an idea ..23:04
TwistedFatecan i disable that interface up check thingy during the boot?23:06
TwistedFatethe way it slows down my system boot if the network is down is absolutely disgusting23:06
TwistedFateand who even implemented that23:06
fsmithredTwistedFate, https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=168823:12
TwistedFatewhy is this an issue, even years after devuan's release?23:15
TwistedFateit's a simple change in the file (hopefully), but can this be modified please?23:15
TwistedFatesystem boot should not depend on the network status23:16
gnarfacepeople would disagree with that23:16
gnarfacejust change the file you baby23:16
gnarfaceanyway the problem is neither setting works for everything23:17
TwistedFatei fail to see the logic behind waiting on the network to boot the system23:17
gnarfacethat's fine, because you're not using it for work23:18
gnarfacebut like i said, the issue is neither setting works for everything.  it's down to a difference in hardware/driver features.23:18
gnarfaceit probably should be auto-detected in a fair world, but as i understand it, the issue is that the auto-detection is problematic23:19
TwistedFatein other distributions i used, the network starts automatically and doesn't affect the boot times23:19
gnarfacethen they were configured the other way.  why is that a mystery?23:19
gnarfacealso, on the other distros, you weren't using DHCP.  you switched to static IP addresses.  remember?23:20
gnarfaceDHCP could be causing a second and completely unrelated delay here23:20
gnarfacethere's also a possibility you are missing 127.0.0.1 in your /etc/hosts23:21
gnarfaceand i walked you through ALL of this before23:21
gnarfacedidn't you keep a backup of /etc from then?23:22
gnarfaceit would have been helpful for your reference23:22
gnarfaceyou don't even have to have any network configuration in /etc/network/interfaces other than this:23:23
gnarfaceauto lo23:23
gnarfaceiface lo inet loopback23:23
gnarfacethen you could just run a script to configure network after your window manager starts23:23
gnarfaceit's not how i would do it, and it's not how you'd want a server configured, but there's nothing stopping you23:24
TwistedFateof course, but i was talking about when i used other distros with dhcp too23:24
TwistedFatefor your "average joe" users, things like this would make a bad impression and turn them away from devuan23:25
gnarfacebut you aren't "average joe" anymore.  don't be lazy.23:26
TwistedFateadmins and such, they already know how they want their network and can easily modify a file23:26
TwistedFateor files23:26
TwistedFatei'm not, i'm just annoyed that this is still a default after all these years23:26
golinuxThat's exactly why there are other distros23:26
TwistedFatein times like these, you need the userbase23:26
gnarfacethose other distros would have behaved the same exact way, configured the same way.  don't let him blame this on anything other than his lack of attention to detail.23:27
TwistedFateespecially now with this systemd disease23:27
gnarfaceTwistedFate: this is clearly a mistake you made yourself23:27
gnarfaceTwistedFate: i guarantee if you set those "other distros" up in the same fashion then unplug the ethernet cable at boot, they'll do the same thing.23:27
TwistedFateyou surely jest? this is the system default23:27
gnarfaceit's not though23:28
gnarfacethis stuff is all chosen by your choices at installation23:28
TwistedFateyes, but default system settings for such a choice23:28
gnarfaceit does exactly what you told it to do, and every other distro behaves the same.  the differences are in the steps you took.23:29
gnarfaceyou need to have better analytical skills than this knee-jerk trolling23:29
TwistedFatewe agree to disagree, i'll leave it at that.23:30
gnarfacewell you haven't taken the steps to prove even to yourself that it's not a self-inflicted issue, and you've professed a complete unawareness of that possibility, so i cite that your logic is fundamentally flawed.23:32
gnarfaceand this is the second time we've had this argument.23:33
gnarfacei'm getting sick of having arguments with you twice.23:33
golinuxDeep breath . . .23:33
* gnarface takes a walk23:33
golinuxGood idea :)23:34
TwistedFateshame that a walk won't fix a bad default setting.23:34
golinuxHi pekman!23:34
pekmanhi golinux23:35

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