klaus | hi all | 01:11 |
---|---|---|
scuti | hi, can i ask a quick question? i have to leave in about 20 minutes | 03:08 |
scuti | i cant get wicd-gtk to display wireless networks; i can get wicd-curses to display wireless networks, but none appear on wicd-gtk | 03:09 |
scuti | about the last months i've used this devuan install, i had to use iw to get wireless on my laptop | 03:10 |
poontangmessiah | scuti: | 03:10 |
poontangmessiah | sudo apt purge wicd | 03:10 |
poontangmessiah | sudo apt install network-manager | 03:10 |
scuti | so, just dont use wicd? | 03:11 |
poontangmessiah | this is the only advice i can give because wicd is truly trash on every distro i used | 03:11 |
scuti | i suppose since i'm having to much issues with it currently | 03:11 |
scuti | only used it since it came with devuan's dvd install i recall | 03:12 |
scuti | ok thanks this is less hassle than wicd | 03:20 |
gnarface | poontangmessiah: at least make sure they're updated first. | 03:42 |
gnarface | poontangmessiah: known bugs have been fixed, and it's not like network-manager doesn't also suck. | 03:43 |
golinux | network-manager sucks more | 03:44 |
poontangmessiah | gnarface golinux explain why | 03:45 |
poontangmessiah | i've never had netman screw up on me, not even once | 03:45 |
poontangmessiah | except maybe once but that was my router's fault anyway | 03:45 |
gnarface | i used to be a redhat user from back when they first introduced it. i think you just don't have enough experience to fill the chart with enough data points to draw accurate lines. | 03:51 |
gnarface | most the issues users have had with wicd have been self-inflicted | 03:52 |
gnarface | that said, i'd advise users to learn to manipulate the /etc/network/interfaces file directly instead of either | 03:52 |
gnarface | i mean, if you're going to take a stance based on reliability, take the right stance at least | 03:53 |
onefang | The only issue I have with wicd is that it'll reorder lines in it's own config file each time I reboot, which wouldn't be a problem except I also use etckeeper. | 03:54 |
gnarface | but it's really important to make sure people have at least got the latest updates and try to diagnose the problem if it's unknown | 03:54 |
gnarface | because now we don't actually know if there's a new issue with wicd or not | 03:54 |
gnarface | and it's something that enough people have used successfully that it was very problably either self-inflicted or a really weird corner-case | 03:55 |
onefang | Though scuti wanted a quick answer, coz they had to leave in 20 minutes. Scuti got a quick answer that satisfied them. shrugs | 04:24 |
gnarface | well, i was thinking maybe just user error, like not turning the wifi on first, or maybe there was actually a bug but one that had been fixed in the repos, and he just hadn't updated yet | 04:31 |
gnarface | it rang a bell, like something that other users had gotten confused about | 04:31 |
klaus | what would be the equivalent of /etc/systemd/logind.conf on a systemd free system ? | 06:20 |
klaus | i used to use that file to modifiy behavior of my power key: HandlePowerKey=ignore | 06:20 |
klaus | in case of me pressing it by mistake so the system wouldn't go to immediate shutdown without warning.. | 06:21 |
gnarface | klaus: should be handled by acpi | 06:22 |
gnarface | it feeds off bios defaults though, so you might be getting this behavior even if it's not installed | 06:23 |
gnarface | and it's typical that this is a feature you can change in the bios too | 06:24 |
gnarface | (some really old machines use apm for this) | 06:24 |
klaus | i don't have bios access on this machine, it's a macbook | 06:24 |
gnarface | oh, well that makes it trickier | 06:25 |
klaus | yes, mac are a pain about that | 06:25 |
klaus | on a systemd system i can use that systemd file logind.conf and define: HandlePowerKey=ignore | 06:26 |
klaus | i'm searching equivalent .. but nothing pops up as evident substitue | 06:26 |
klaus | *substitute | 06:26 |
gnarface | did you look in /etc/acpi or /usr/share/doc/acpi ? | 06:30 |
klaus | not yet, i do now | 06:30 |
klaus | someone forgot to delete a line in /etc/acpi/handler.sh , last line i see is: | 06:32 |
klaus | # vim:set ts=4 sw=4 ft=sh et: | 06:32 |
klaus | this /usr/share/doc/acpi path doesn't exists, the closer i have is /usr/share/doc/acpid/ and there's nothing in the beside changelog, readme, todo | 06:35 |
klaus | /etc/acpi might have something interesting though | 06:35 |
klaus | not sure yet i'm reading | 06:36 |
klaus | hum, no, it's just log input lines | 06:37 |
klaus | oh hey :) | 06:38 |
klaus | --> /etc/elogind/logind.conf | 06:38 |
klaus | :) | 06:38 |
gnarface | oh, the gui login manager could take over that maybe | 06:39 |
gnarface | i had forgotten | 06:39 |
klaus | i don't use one | 06:39 |
klaus | i removed the display manager | 06:39 |
gnarface | then that might not help you | 06:39 |
klaus | i log to tty | 06:39 |
klaus | hum | 06:39 |
gnarface | but the readme in /usr/share/doc/acpid might actually be useful | 06:39 |
gnarface | here, i have a /etc/acpi/powerbtn-acpi-support.sh though, not sure why you don't. | 06:40 |
gnarface | this could be new or old cruft | 06:40 |
klaus | turns out trying to restart elogind was a bad idea | 06:44 |
klaus | but otherwise it worked | 06:45 |
klaus | pressing my power key doesn't immediately shudown the system without warning anymore | 06:45 |
gnarface | well that's good | 06:47 |
gnarface | if you don't have a graphical login, you don't need elogind | 06:47 |
gnarface | you could just uninstall it | 06:47 |
gnarface | though then you might get new and exciting behavior | 06:47 |
klaus | but that's the one thing that change the behavior of my powerkey, if i remove it i'll get back to that behavior of immediate shutdown if i press it by mistake .. | 06:49 |
gnarface | well, i'm not convinced that this couldn't be done with acpi, too | 06:50 |
klaus | i'll try out things a bit, if i can remove it and find a way to prevent that behavior then i'll remove it, but meanwhile i find an alternate way i'll just keep it | 06:50 |
gnarface | you might need some other package too like acpi-support-base or something | 06:50 |
klaus | i'll try it out, thanks for the help ! | 06:51 |
gnarface | no problem | 06:51 |
gnarface | what's important is that it works how you want it to | 06:52 |
klaus | devuan is a blessing, i should have gone that way sooner | 06:54 |
klaus | i like artix too, it's arch without systemd | 06:55 |
FlibberTGibbet | Windows Subsystem for Devuan still behaving very well on my work Windows laptop :D | 12:35 |
poontangmessiah_ | gnarface: it's been some time since i've used devuan, does startup ifup still hang when the ethernet cable is unplugged? | 15:30 |
Walex | poontangmessiah: there are various tools rthat detect cable presence and run 'ifup' or 'ifdown' depending. | 17:10 |
poontangmessiah | Walex: that doesn't answer the question | 17:10 |
Burek | new devuan when? | 17:57 |
jonadab | Burek: As soon as Perl6 reaches the point where we can drop Perl5 support. | 18:02 |
Burek | kk, thanks | 18:03 |
jonadab | HTH.HAND. | 18:03 |
golinux | jonadab: Where did you get that? If we had the (wo)man power to do the remaining work it could be out next week. But alas . . . | 18:24 |
golinux | But we want to do an ascii point release before beowulf. | 18:24 |
r3boot | jonadab: :D :D :D | 18:25 |
golinux | Maybe your response was sarcasm. Dunno . . | 18:25 |
r3boot | golinux: it's sarcasm; Perl6, eventhough ppl have been writing for it for eons, is still not released | 18:26 |
r3boot | err, *has not replaced perl5 yet | 18:27 |
Burek | wow i got bamboozled | 18:30 |
djph | Burek: eh? | 18:44 |
* golinux knows very little about perl except for Netanel Rubin�s Perl Jam 2 talk at CCC a few years ago. | 19:31 | |
golinux | https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7130-the_perl_jam_2 | 19:35 |
koollman | I intend to try installing devuan on a rather modern laptop (t495). what's the current 'best' installer, refracta from a liveusb ? | 19:35 |
golinux | It was hysterical! | 19:35 |
golinux | Depends what you want to have installed | 19:36 |
koollman | hm. what are my options ? :) | 19:36 |
koollman | I suppose I want devuan ascii, with a few things from backport. and I want to have at least Xorg running | 19:37 |
fsmithred | live installer gives you what is in the iso - full xfce desktop | 19:38 |
fsmithred | and takes 10 minutes | 19:38 |
fsmithred | installer isos give you more software choices and take a lot longer to install (usually 1-2 hours for me) | 19:38 |
koollman | I'm fairly sure installer iso won't work on this laptop. Although I could try and open bugs :) | 19:39 |
fsmithred | should say full desktop for the desktop-live | 19:39 |
fsmithred | if you think the hardware is too new, live iso probably won't help. | 19:39 |
fsmithred | why do you think it won't install? | 19:39 |
koollman | detection process. as I remember it, devuan installer is rather basic. I remember it getting stuck in various situations when there are no cdrom and it cannot find the usb key | 19:40 |
koollman | I mean, I can try it right now, should be fast :) | 19:41 |
fsmithred | oh, ryzen. You might need a newer kernel | 19:41 |
fsmithred | I have something for that. | 19:41 |
fsmithred | kinda old, but should still work. | 19:41 |
fsmithred | This is ascii with backports kernel and a minimal desktop: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx-bpo-20180913_1952.iso | 19:42 |
koollman | and ... yeah. doing basic text install, get stuck on 'detecting cdrom'. and doing default graphical install, no touchpad, but also get stuck on detecting cdrom. :) | 19:42 |
koollman | (from netinst iso) | 19:42 |
fsmithred | iso is on a usb? | 19:42 |
koollman | yes | 19:42 |
fsmithred | you can play tricks with finding the cdrom | 19:43 |
koollman | should I try mounting it before the detect step ? | 19:43 |
fsmithred | not sure if I can remember exactly, but I'll try | 19:43 |
fsmithred | I think you have to let it fail to find the cdrom, then switch to another vt BEFORE you dismiss the error screen | 19:43 |
fsmithred | then make a symlink | 19:43 |
koollman | doesn't get to an error. it is just 'stuck'. no logs on alt-f4 terminal | 19:44 |
fsmithred | then go back to vt1 and tell it to try again | 19:44 |
fsmithred | oh | 19:44 |
fsmithred | other option would be to boot the refracta iso I just posted above and do a debootstrap install of devuan | 19:45 |
fsmithred | then you really get to choose what you want | 19:45 |
koollman | well, that would be equivalent to doing a debootstrap install from any other env, right ? (assuming recent enough kernel) | 19:45 |
fsmithred | yeah, with devuan's debootstrap. Not sure if that makes a big difference. | 19:46 |
fsmithred | yeah, ascii has a devuanized debootstrap. The debian version doesn't include us in any of the scripts. | 19:47 |
fsmithred | There might still be a working beowulf mini.iso. | 19:48 |
fsmithred | not sure if the kernel has updated since the last build. | 19:48 |
koollman | I can probably manage to do that. I remember doing install from debootstrap a while ago. I'm still going to try the live iso first | 19:48 |
fsmithred | ok, here's the last mini.iso that was made, in case the live doesn't work: http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ | 19:50 |
koollman | live is promising ... reached xfce desktop :) | 19:52 |
koollman | (still probably a few bugs given the delays in boot/udevd and errors mentionning iommu : https://dpaste.de/Kbn6#L228 ) | 19:55 |
fsmithred | if it booted, it should install no problem | 20:00 |
fsmithred | brb | 20:01 |
koollman | I think there are some problems with udev,still. I can see 'udevadm settle' (launched by gparted on validation) that was stuck for maybe 4/5 minutes. but gparted seems to continue now. (udevadm was polling /run/udev/queue I think) | 20:06 |
koollman | oh ... it's going to do it for each partition. that may take a while :) | 20:09 |
koollman | (guess I will pre-partition next time :) ) | 20:09 |
fsmithred | gpt or msdos partition table? | 20:10 |
koollman | gpt | 20:11 |
koollman | and, it's not the disk that is slow. nvme :) | 20:11 |
fsmithred | make sure to create the bios_grub partition | 20:11 |
fsmithred | at least 1mb with no filesystem on it, with bios_grub flag | 20:11 |
fsmithred | oh | 20:11 |
fsmithred | unless you're using efi | 20:11 |
fsmithred | then you just need efi partition | 20:12 |
fsmithred | do you know if you booted uefi or bios? | 20:12 |
koollman | uefi. and I'm reusing existing efi partition | 20:13 |
fsmithred | ok | 20:13 |
fsmithred | I've noticed that gparted is very slow on a gpt disk with many partitions | 20:13 |
fsmithred | slow to come up. | 20:14 |
fsmithred | once it's up, it's fine | 20:14 |
koollman | different problem there, I think | 20:14 |
koollman | came up fast, but writing partitions is very slow. And if I look at what gparted is doing, it's waiting for 'udevadm settle', which takes a few minutes, then do one operation, then call it again | 20:15 |
fsmithred | gdisk might work better | 20:16 |
koollman | maybe I will kill it and start over doing partitions with another tool first | 20:16 |
fsmithred | if you pre-format, make sure to select "Do not format" in the options menu. | 20:16 |
fsmithred | and I'm talking about making the filesystems, not just the partitions. | 20:17 |
koollman | ok. took 30s in cgdisk :) | 20:18 |
koollman | (and that was mostly human time) | 20:18 |
fsmithred | that's sounds better | 20:18 |
koollman | still indicates a bug in udevadm or gparted in the live image | 20:19 |
fsmithred | I think gparted | 20:19 |
koollman | well, it was really a long-lived udevadm process that was slowing it down. | 20:20 |
fsmithred | I've had some trouble with partitioning on uefi with it. Can't remember specifics, but I tend to use gdisk now. | 20:20 |
koollman | although it is clearly a bug to call that from the main thread in a graphical application, too ... | 20:20 |
fsmithred | koollman, when you get to the window for grub install, you might want to go to a root terminal, chroot /target and then add backports to install the bpo kernel | 20:32 |
fsmithred | then go back and let it install the bootloader | 20:33 |
fsmithred | don't choose the chroot button | 20:33 |
koollman | nah, I was impatient. now it's booting on the newly installed devuan. But, yeah, I will get new kernel first thing after boot is finished. seems to get some slowdowns like the liveusb (which I expected) | 20:34 |
koollman | and ... login prompt \o/ | 20:34 |
fsmithred | console login? | 20:34 |
koollman | yeah. but that's ok. I can work from there :) | 20:35 |
fsmithred | good :) | 20:35 |
koollman | hm. the generated fstab is wrong, though | 20:36 |
koollman | I suppose since I preformatted everything, I was not asked which fs to pick ... so the fs column is missing | 20:36 |
fsmithred | I will look at that now | 20:37 |
fsmithred | pretty sure it pulls the fs type from blkid | 20:38 |
koollman | and ... rmmod pcspkr. I forgot how loud it was in this laptop :) | 20:40 |
fsmithred | it should have printed the fs type in fstab | 20:42 |
koollman | maybe I did mess up something. but it's fine, easy to correct on my side | 20:43 |
fsmithred | look over the log. Should be in your home dir. | 20:43 |
fsmithred | if [[ $no_format = "yes" ]]; then | 20:44 |
fsmithred | fs_type_os=$(blkid -s TYPE "$install_dev" | awk -F"\"" '{ print $2 }') | 20:44 |
koollman | currently booting with backports kernel. still seem to get a delay at boot. I will investigate that later. once it is booted I'll try blkid command | 20:45 |
fsmithred | find that place in the log and make sure that it saw the type | 20:46 |
koollman | but, hey ... now I get to a graphical login manager :) | 20:47 |
koollman | and xfce is working. | 20:47 |
fsmithred | cool | 20:47 |
koollman | fs_type_os= | 20:48 |
koollman | so ... yeah. not detected when it ran | 20:48 |
fsmithred | weird | 20:48 |
koollman | I will probably try some more installs. I suspect it was my fault. And if I run it now it does gives back 'ext4' | 20:49 |
koollman | maybe at least add a check for empty string | 20:49 |
fsmithred | and have it do what? | 20:50 |
fsmithred | open fstab in a text editor? | 20:50 |
koollman | :) | 20:50 |
koollman | that's an option. or error with an option to re-run detection maybe | 20:50 |
koollman | now I need to find out why I lose 2 minutes with no logs in the middle of my boot. although I do strongly suspect unsupported hardware and udevd :) | 20:51 |
fsmithred | if you're going to do more installs, you might consider installing beowulf | 20:52 |
koollman | maybe, yes | 20:52 |
fsmithred | upgrading to it with full xfce desktop right now would be tricky, because some of the task-* packages aren't ready | 20:53 |
fsmithred | do standard system install then add desktop parts individually (xfce4 metapackage should be ok) | 20:53 |
fsmithred | but don't select it from tasksel | 20:53 |
koollman | if I do standard install I generally don't even bother with X during install. it comes later. and if ion3 is working I'm all set :) | 20:55 |
fsmithred | great | 20:55 |
koollman | https://dpaste.de/zyDH around lines 1007, 1008, 1009 ... looks like two pauses, of about 1 minute each. do you have any idea what would fail with a timeout of 1min ? (or maybe two minutes ... but with a udevd message in the middle) | 20:58 |
koollman | (and of course before that, I have at least one problem with a null dereference in kernel. which is ugly but maybe need a much newer kernel for this cpu/chipset :) ) | 20:59 |
fsmithred | do you know what device is cited there? | 21:02 |
fsmithred | /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.7/0000:05:00.0 | 21:02 |
koollman | what pci id would that be. 05:00.0 ? | 21:03 |
koollman | 10ec:522a, realtek card reader RTS522A | 21:04 |
fsmithred | devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.7/0000:05:00.0/rtsx_pci_sdmmc | 21:04 |
fsmithred | sdmmc... is that your nvme drive? | 21:04 |
fsmithred | yes, look for that number in lspci output | 21:05 |
fsmithred | oh | 21:05 |
koollman | it was the line just after my question ;) | 21:05 |
fsmithred | yeah, finally saw that | 21:05 |
koollman | (first bit is pci id if you want exact model) | 21:06 |
fsmithred | maybe you could turn it off in bios | 21:06 |
fsmithred | and wait for a few kernel updates | 21:06 |
koollman | well, I can try a more recent kernel, too | 21:06 |
koollman | doesn't seem very new, though | 21:08 |
fsmithred | the card reader or the kernel? | 21:08 |
koollman | card reader | 21:09 |
koollman | (by the way thank you very much for all the help :) ) | 21:11 |
koollman | and I even got my wireless card working. great :) | 21:12 |
koollman | (although having an ethernet port is pretty great when trying this kind of things. was hard to find a decent model that still had one) | 21:13 |
gnarface | poontangmessiah: the answer is it never did, if you set it up right. | 21:13 |
fsmithred | koollman, lsmod |grep rtsx | 21:14 |
koollman | rtsx_pci is loaded | 21:15 |
fsmithred | I'm out of ideas | 21:15 |
koollman | I'll probably try a few kernels to see if something bleeding-edge behaves the same way | 21:16 |
fsmithred | you could probably run the 5.2 from ceres on beowulf | 21:17 |
koollman | (and blobwars run. my work laptop is finally ready ;) ) | 21:43 |
jonadab | golinux: Made it up out of whole cloth. | 22:23 |
jonadab | As a rule of thumb, any answer followed by "HTH.HAND." is probably not actually the real answer. This has been true since usenet was invented, I think? Or for most of that time, anyway. | 22:24 |
golinux | Have never run across that (that I can remember) on any Devuan channels. | 22:37 |
drawkula | I see that for the 1st time now | 22:39 |
golinux | And you've been around a veeeery long time. | 22:40 |
drawkula | maybe jonadab and me read different groups... | 22:43 |
drawkula | globalising own experiences is often ... hmmmm ... misleading | 22:43 |
drawkula | or our memory is cheating... lossy data compression in our grey matter... | 22:44 |
jonadab | golinux: Eh, I didn't get on the internet until 1993. | 22:47 |
jonadab | There are folks who have been around way longer. | 22:47 |
jonadab | But yeah, I thought "HTH.HAND" would be understood in technical circles. I guess I should switch to saying "kappa" like the gamer kids. | 22:48 |
golinux | Don't know that one either. I play solitaire. | 22:49 |
jonadab | Or just stop making jokes. | 22:49 |
Akuli | i play solitaire too <3 | 22:49 |
jonadab | I think "kappa" originated on Twitch? Which is a change of pace, because most of the really terrible memes come from 4chan. | 22:49 |
Akuli | i wrote a curses-based solitaire that i can play with terminal | 22:49 |
Akuli | it draws the cards with unicode line-drawing characters, and it even has colorz | 22:50 |
golinux | Probably not a good idea to joke about official Devuan news | 22:50 |
jonadab | I have seriously thought about writing a terminal-based turn-based shmup. | 22:50 |
golinux | Can we please take this over to #debian fork? | 22:50 |
golinux | no space | 22:51 |
golinux | #debianfork | 22:51 |
golinux | That's the chat channel | 22:51 |
r3boot | ghe, hth.hand, thats old :D | 23:05 |
drawkula | its k3wl 2 b cryptic | 23:23 |
sixwheeledbeast | cr3wl may b | 23:45 |
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