libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-12-16

masonthomascovenant_: The libvirt stack is my favourite at present.02:21
masonthomascovenant_: https://wiki.debian.org/KVM talks about it. It talks about Debian but it works on Devuan. I'd recommend virt-manager as a pain-free way to build and access your virtual machines until you have more complex needs, which might not ever happen.02:24
masonOh, wrong thomas. I wish people would stick around after asking questions.02:24
byzandulalibvirt definitely aids the setup process02:32
masonbyzandula: Yar. I end up using some custom scripting that ships around zvols, and I keep individual VM settings in the ZFS properties of each dataset. So, I ship the zvol, and my script pulls values out of properties and feeds them into virt-install. Makes for easy migration without shared storage.02:34
masonBut I still use virt-manager to access consoles, because it makes it easy.02:34
byzandulaI do everything via the command line now02:36
byzandulabut definitely like virt-manager02:36
masonThe nice thing here is that virt-manager can show me at a glance which host a VM is on. Without it I'd have to either remember or write software that searches for me.02:38
byzandulamason: that makes a lot of sense .. nice to have a quick view of that03:25
lifebookhi to all devuan citizens08:49
lifebookthere is a security update for thunderbird08:50
lifebookhowever devuan do not offer it08:50
huuhhhSystem becomes unstable after running firefox with a bunch of tabs open for a few hours, near the limits of my system RAM although swapfile is working.  By the way freenode.net won't work if you have google blocked in noscript... I am using hexchat from now on18:42
fsmithredhow much actual ram you got?18:44
huuhhh4GB18:45
fsmithredI was running out frequently with 2G. Occasionally now with 4G.18:45
fsmithredusually I can tell it's happening before it completely locks up, and I can close some things18:46
fsmithred4G is really 3.4 on this box. That doesn't help.18:47
furrywolffirefox has gotten even more bloated lately, despite their claiming the rewrite would fix such things.  and it leaks ram just as badly as it always has.18:50
fsmithredI seem to recall that ff slowed down a lot over about a year before they "fixed" it.18:53
huuhhhmaybe adding a theme had something to do with it - I just installed noscript, hopefully it gets rid of more overhead than it uses18:54
fsmithredlinks2 is pretty fast, and it makes the web look like 199518:54
huuhhhI used lynx to get online with a commodore 64 and browse the web once in the 90s, that was cool... I just installed links219:07
fsmithredit'll run in a graphical environment19:14
huuhhhYeah I was just testing it out.  It doesn't like youtube very much.19:16
fsmithredlol, no but you could use youtube-dl19:17
fsmithredand a player like vlc or mpv19:17
fsmithredget youtube-dl from the git repo, because it gets updated frequently19:17
fsmithredevery time youtube fixes it so it doesn't work19:18
huuhhhI noticed that, VLC works to play but doesn't seem able to convert youtube anymore19:20
huuhhhI still need to install Network Manager, or a work around to "bridge" my wifi to my ethernet.  I searched for bridging linux for hours and hours, tried setting up DHCP servers and all that nonsense... but all you have to do in Network manager is check the "share with other computers" box and it just works.19:22
huuhhhunder ipv4 settings19:23
huuhhhApparently "bridging" is not technically what is being done because it means something else technically, but I'm used to that term from Windows, which also just lets you bridge.19:24
huuhhhwicd is a step backwards in usability from Network Manager19:25
fsmithredapt install network-manager (after you remove wicd)19:28
fsmithredunless you need wicd to get nm19:29
huuhhhI could only get network manager to come up under nmtui, it was able to see networks but could not connect19:30
huuhhhSomeone mentioned something about possibly needing to upgrade to Beowulf to get the right network manager19:31
fsmithredhuuhhh, did you also install network-manager-gnome? That's the frontend.19:36
huuhhhof course not, I don't know what I'm doing :-D19:38
huuhhhI was wondering why the applet was not there19:38
fsmithredlooks like it would install on my ascii19:39
huuhhhI installed network-manager and network-manager-gnome, get no icons in my menu to configure network manager and it doesn't work http://i.imgur.com/IoFE2KJ.png19:51
fsmithredlooks like the service started fine19:53
fsmithredcheck the .desktop file to see if it's set to only show up in gnome19:54
fsmithredin /usr/share/applications/(something) probably network-manager.desktop19:54
fsmithrednm-applet.desktop19:56
fsmithrednm-applet is also the command19:56
fsmithredwhat desktop are you using? xfce?19:56
fsmithredprobably need to add that to the startup apps19:57
huuhhhnmtui finds access points but can't connect19:57
huuhhhIf network-manager is going to work it should be working in nmtui correct?20:10
fsmithredwhy not use the gui?20:31
fsmithredtry running nm-applet20:32
huuhhhnetwork manager isn't recognizing my wifi dongle now, could be the device as it has been flakey lately.  Although it works under wicd... it also came up with a list of access points in nmtui, which don't show up now.  Could removing the wicd file in init.d and rebooting help?20:50
poontangmessiahYou guys were right, beowulf was a mistake22:24
golinux???22:25
poontangmessiahRedshift -O breaks freezes my screen22:25
poontangmessiahbreaks, freezes my screen*22:25
fsmithredI can test that in a little while22:26
poontangmessiahfsmithred: the issue is displaymanager independent, if that helps.22:27
fsmithredyeah, it does. I'm using lxdm.22:27
fsmithredor will be. Still wiping a hard drive. Then install.22:27
poontangmessiahfsmithred: so what gives?22:27
fsmithredwhat do you mean?22:28
fsmithredI have a jessie and two asciis, but no beowulf on hardware yet.22:28
fsmithredthat will change in a little less than 1 hour.22:29
poontangmessiahShould i post an issue in redshift git or just nuke my installation and rpeeat?22:29
fsmithredwait an hour and see if I can reproduce it22:29
fsmithredI could test in vm in a few minutes, but I don't know if that's a fair test22:29
poontangmessiahfsmithred: im using --no-install-recommends too.22:29
poontangmessiahbut that shouldn't break anything......right?22:30
fsmithredwtf does it need to use geoclue to tell me the last settings?22:34
fsmithredanyway, it doesn't work in VM22:34
poontangmessiahfsmithred: use redshift -O 400022:35
fsmithredusing method 'randr' .22:35
fsmithredand then returns prompt22:35
fsmithreddoes nothing22:35
poontangmessiahThis is probably an x issue22:38
huuhhhredshift, comes with some weird geolocation app, instead of just using system time...22:38
fsmithredthis is the first time I've seen it try to geolocate with 'redshift -O'22:41
poontangmessiahhuuhhh: it's a cheap imitation of flux22:41
poontangmessiahbut it's all we have on linux22:41
fsmithredthere is another22:42
poontangmessiahblueshift?22:42
fsmithredcan't remember the name22:42
fsmithredlol, no22:42
fsmithredsct22:43
fsmithredI have it installed. There's no man page and no --help22:43
fsmithredrun it and it sets my gamma back to 122:43
fsmithredoh, heh22:44
fsmithredonly on one monitor22:44
poontangmessiahif this thing also breaks then it all can go to hell22:44
fsmithredyou have normal hardware or something rare?22:45
poontangmessiahfsmithred: guess, sct also broke it.22:52
poontangmessiahforcing me to rebbot22:53
fsmithred30 minutes to hardware test22:53
fsmithredwhat is your hardware?22:53
fsmithredvid card?22:54
poontangmessiahamd.22:54
poontangmessiahsome old stuff.22:54
fsmithredI have to go play with the wood stove. Back in about half hour.22:55
poontangmessiahopinions on wayland?23:45
MinceRit sucks23:55
MinceRand it will probably always suck23:55
MinceRsince the developers have a totally wrong mindset23:55
poontangmessiahMinceR: explain please23:56
MinceRmajor implementations only have client-side decorations, which looks like shit, is user-unfriendly and bloats the gui toolkits23:56
MinceRafaik all but 1 minor implementation depends on cancerd23:56
MinceRthey also like to just drop X11 features necessary for FPS gaming or making screenshots and things like that and handwave it with "security"23:57
MinceReven though they could be implemented securely23:57

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