libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-12-17

onefangAs I understand it, applications that change the blue tint of your screen need to know where you are, coz it's not just time based, it's sunrise/sunset based.  And that changes depending on time of year and physical location.00:19
fsmithredonefang, you are correct, and the app is wrong about when I want red or blue. I do it manually (through a script with selections.)00:39
onefangSome monitors have a light detector for that reason.  I think one of mine does, I probably disabled it I use dark themes.  Phones also have light monitors, but I use OLED phones, with dark themes.  OLED and dark themes means less of a problem with blue light exposure.  And better battery life.  I even use an extension to force web sites to a dark theme.00:46
tadanoahohi, is there any definitive way to verify gpg sigs of isos? i can't find any. there's /os/ page which only lists 32bit fingerprints, there's manual to add devuan-keyring if you're already on debian. is there a page on https official website that shows ISO signature key?07:12
tadanoahothat should be on the download page07:14
Leandertadanoaho: have a look at the SHA256SUMS.asc file07:47
Leanderit's actually in the README, for instance: http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/README.txt07:49
tadanoahothanks, just found it07:50
tadanoahothere's an issue with devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso signature (SHA256SUMS.txt.asc) it's signed with expired key07:51
tadanoahoat the same time devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_dvd-1.iso is signed with a different key07:52
tadanoahoboth signatures are valid but "live"'s key ( fsmithred ) is expired07:53
telmichre10:13
fsmithredtadanoaho, what keyserver are you using?10:51
tadanoahofsmithred im not using any keyservers, i use devuan-devs.gpg  and sha256sums.txt.asc features valid signature made with your expired key11:24
tadanoahofor devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso11:24
tadanoahoand i don't exactly understand what's "onelove at devuan" key for in this case, isn't it explicitly labeled cdimage key?11:28
tadanoahoi'm a new user, just discovered this distro today and like it for getting rid of systemd11:28
poontangmessiahafter a long night of screwing around turns out the issue isn't just with redshift15:03
poontangmessiahsimply switching from X to tty and vice versa freezes X permanently15:03
fsmithredpoontangmessiah, I finally got beowulf installed and tested redshift. It works normally here.15:03
poontangmessiahi also now know that this isn't caused by --no-install-recommends15:04
fsmithredok15:04
poontangmessiahand it's window manager and display manager independent15:04
fsmithredwhat's your hardware?15:04
poontangmessiahamd r2/3/415:04
poontangmessiahlinux can't seem to detect which of it15:05
fsmithredwhich kernel are you using?15:05
poontangmessiah4.1915:05
fsmithredoh right, beowulf15:05
poontangmessiahi'm gonna test again on ascii, if it works then this it's a bug, if not, i'm trashing this laptop because i've been using devuan ascii on my other computers for years15:06
fsmithredI don't know if there's a buster backports kernel yet, but that might be worth trying15:06
poontangmessiahamd was a mistake15:06
fsmithredsome ryzens need newer kernel than what's in ascii15:06
fsmithreddid you install amd firmware?15:07
fsmithredfirmware-amd-graphics15:07
poontangmessiahYes, everything is there15:07
poontangmessiahi need 4.19 to build my wireless drivers otherwise i'll just stay on ascii15:08
HumIs this the best "howto" for migrating to beowulf? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=230115:11
fsmithredHum, no, that's too old15:12
fsmithredyou're going from ascii to beowulf?15:12
fsmithredHum, change 'ascii' to 'beowulf' in sources.list, then apt update and apt upgrade15:13
Humok15:14
Humthx fsmithred15:14
fsmithredyw15:14
Humno pinning?15:14
fsmithreddepending on what's installed, it should be easy15:14
fsmithreddo you have anything pinned now?15:14
HumPackage: systemd-sysv; Pin: release o=Debian; Pin-Priority: -1 # ;)15:15
fsmithreddon't need it, but it won't hurt anything if it's there15:15
Hum:D proposed and backport aren't found ;)15:17
fsmithredcorrect. Comment those out.15:18
Humyes15:18
Humupdate for 2295 Packages. Btw is there no actual documentiation about upgrading because of the lack of manpower?15:18
fsmithredbecause beowulf is still in testing15:19
fsmithredif you want to help with updating the existing docs, that might be good15:19
Humyes, it is testing. But asking a question in gajim xmpp-channel resulted in "Ohhh, your gajim is quite old"15:20
Humfsmithred: I can try15:20
HumI have a blog at https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/user:hum should I put it there?15:21
Humthen it can be copied/moved to anywhere else. If necessary I can state, that another copyright GFDL/some CC are Ok.15:23
Humis it migrating, upgrading or dist-upgrading from ascii to beowulf?15:25
fsmithredHum, yeah, you can put it there.15:32
fsmithredmigrate usually refers to going from debian to devuan15:32
Humfsmithred: Ok, thx15:33
fsmithredupgrade (or dist-upgrade) would be ascii to beowulf15:33
fsmithredone more thing...15:33
Humfsmithred: ?15:33
fsmithreddevuan is based on debian, so ALL the software is old15:33
fsmithredit's a feature15:33
Humit is a feature, if I can switch it off ;) I hope to change it by dist-upgrading15:34
fsmithredit'll still be old15:37
fsmithredjust less old15:37
Hum:D yeah you are right15:37
fsmithrednew=buggy15:38
masonWe need a dpkg-like bot to explain SNS.15:38
mason09:38 < dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released.  If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.15:39
Hummason: what does ssb mean?15:41
masonHum: Not sure. Something-source-build at a guess.15:42
masonbased on context15:42
masonAh, I'm guessing "sid source build".15:43
Humthx15:44
mason113815:45
poontangmessiahi wonder what packages are in tasksel's Console productivity and Devuan operating system15:55
fsmithredpoontangmessiah, https://git.devuan.org/sdk/live-sdk/blob/master/blends/devuan-minimal-live/ascii/config16:15
fsmithredoh, that might not be the same16:15
fsmithredapt-cache depends task-console-productivity16:17
masonor tasksel --task-packages foo16:26
Humfsmithred: https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/user:hum_upgradin_from_ascii_to_beowulf16:28
fsmithredHum, last line typo: change source.list to sources.list16:32
fsmithredand thanks!16:32
fsmithredoh, and in the title: upgradin/upgrading16:33
Humfsmithred: added s, adding g16:33
fsmithredI passed the link along to golinux.16:34
Humfsmithred: The link will change because of missing g16:35
fsmithredoh yeah16:35
fsmithredthanks16:35
Humrename doesn't work16:35
fsmithredyou can't make another and delete the first?16:37
Humyes, now https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/user:hum_upgrading_from_ascii_to_beowulf16:39
fsmithredcool16:40
fsmithredyou write them like I do - short and to the point16:40
Humthx. I tried to do more formatting, but writing it in pandoc's markdown and converting it is not perfect. Pandoc's output plugin for dokuwiki isn't perfect16:41
fsmithreddon't worry about it. It will get converted to html eventually.16:42
fsmithredand there may end up being more instructions for special cases16:42
poontangmessiahfsmithred, stuff is finally working perfectly on 4.9.016:46
poontangmessiahNow i need to figure out how to get 4.19 without screwing everything up16:47
HumI wrote in markdown, do you want that file?16:49
Humpoontangmessiah: Do you know the problem, when using a newer kernel and newer btrfs features and then crashing the computer and having problems with repairing the filesystem?16:50
Humespecially the devuan boot image with old kernel won't accept the btrfs with new features16:51
poontangmessiahHum, never had that issue16:52
Humit was faster to me to reinstall the system...16:53
poontangmessiahalso why the hell does devuan insist on installing exim416:55
yetidoes it?17:02
fsmithredyeah17:04
fsmithredwith full desktop install17:04
fsmithredit gets used for sending system messages to root or primary user17:05
yetiit allows other mtas too17:05
yetiI use opensmtpd17:06
yetiinsinsting on a mta makes sense for any *nix17:06
yetiany=every17:06
Human_G33khello is devuan release it s own buster ?18:32
unixmanHuman_G33k, https://files.devuan.org/ has the latest release.18:34
unixmanI don't see a buster.18:34
Human_G33kdo you know when ?18:35
unixmanNope. But I imagine "when it's ready" is when. ;)18:35
yetinstall ascii, upgrad to beowulf, help killing the last bugs?18:36
Human_G33kyeti, already doing it.18:37
yetiI mostly live in xterm and screen and beowulf is stable enough for my needs18:38
Human_G33ki use it want to replace some server18:39
Human_G33kand for now there is issues and the bigist is time for all of us.18:39
Human_G33ksome of my device need to be in testing (debian) but i want to migrate to testing equivalent for devuan but never coming18:41
huuhhhwhat and where are the startup scripts for devuan located?  I am still trying to get rid of wicd so Network-manager will work.  I removed 'wicd' file from init.d, but I got some parm error wicd failed come up.  What is the script that is calling that?18:41
Human_G33khuuhhh, /etc/init.d/ ? or user side ?18:42
yetiI've no system with wicd running atm18:42
huuhhhI don't know what user side means, but I removed wicd from init.d, but something else is trying to bring it up at start.  Network manager sees the wireless networks but doesn't connect.18:44
yeticheck for links in /etc/rc?.d18:44
unixmanhuuhhh, /etc/xdg/autostart/wicd-tray.desktop maybe?18:45
Human_G33ktry an apt-file list wicd18:48
huuhhhI see reference in all the /etc/rc* to wicd... this is too much work18:49
huuhhhyeti, how did you install and not have wicd?  I would rather reinstall at this point, if there is a way to have network-manager18:50
golinuxHum: Documentation can also go here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/master/dev1fanboy18:51
huuhhhnetwork-manager doesn't work right even when I stop the wicd service and start network-manager... it does see the networks but never manages to connect18:52
golinuxAnd will eventually go here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/tree/beta.devuan.org/source/pages/os/documentation/dev1fanboy18:53
golinuxYou could also post it on dev1galaxy.org18:54
yetiI dont use a network manager18:58
yetijust /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/wpa_supplicant/...18:59
huuhhhI need to use network-manager because it gives an easy way to bridge wifi to ethernet and share the wifi with other devices.  If I can't do this, I'm not going to be using this distro.19:01
huuhhhwicd is garbage19:01
djphokay, use something else then.  Plenty of distros on the internet.19:03
huuhhhno19:07
huuhhhfix this one19:07
yetiread about hostapd and bridge19:07
yetior put openwrt in a VM19:08
Humhuuhhh: What device is the wan, eth0 or wifi?19:08
huuhhhwifi19:08
huuhhhin network-manager you can select "share with other computers" under the ipv4 tab19:09
huuhhhof eth019:09
unixmanCreating a bridged interface on Linux isn't difficult from what I recall. Granted I only do that with servers that are headless in a data center. But I suspect one could create a bridged interface and use it with wicd.19:10
HumI prefer NAT, just looking for a script19:12
unixmanYup, not hard: https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections19:12
fsmithredwlan019:13
huuhhhYeti- I read a lot and tried a bunch of different things to set up dhpc server and nothing worked, all it did was make me less confident that I would ever be happy with linux, then I read a way to do it in network-manager that was very very easy compared to all these ways of 'bridging' so I did that19:13
huuhhhunixman, it did not work19:14
unixmanOkay.19:14
Humdamn, I get a new firefox and it resists on creating a new profile without importing my old seting19:18
Humsettings19:18
huuhhhhow can I totally remove wicd for the purpose of testing network-manager, but be able to bring it back up while offline, in case network-manager doesn't work?19:25
huuhhhcomeon guys, bridging wifi to ethernet is a basic thing that people are going to want to implement on their computers, that microsoft figured out a long time ago... if you choose wicd over network-manager you remove that utility.19:31
huuhhhand makes the system less useful19:31
fsmithredupdate-rc.d wicd remove19:35
fsmithredupdate-rc.d wicd defaults   (to restore it)19:35
masonhuuhhh: ifconfig should be there to bridge between configs if you land yourself in a gap between your target network managers.19:37
masonand wpa_supplicant if you're talking about wifi19:37
Humgolinux: Did you have a look at the (low) quality of https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/user:hum_upgradin_from_ascii_to_beowulf ? Of course you can take it to the official documentation, but the text formatting is not so creative20:04
Humbtw I don't understand which text should go where. Forum, Wiki, official (?) documentation in the git repo?20:06
huuhhhsuggestion for feature in the next updates  http://i.imgur.com/3799n8h.png20:08
Humhuuhhh: maybe lack of manpower?20:11
huuhhhfsmithred, thank you for the time saver, however now I get a message about wicd "could not connect to d-bus interface" over the network applet and still cannot connect to access points although it goes through the motions of trying20:11
huuhhhsomething is still trying to implement wicd, although when I "sudo service wicd stop" I get "wicd not found"20:13
fsmithredaptitude purge wicd-daemon20:15
fsmithredor20:15
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep wicd20:15
fsmithredwill show you what wicd packages are still installed20:15
fsmithredoh...20:15
yetimaybe a gui helper in some bar is trying to contact wicd-daemon20:16
fsmithredApps menu, Settings, Session and Startup, Application Autostart20:16
fsmithredun-check wicd20:16
huuhhhI don't know how to restore wicd after packages are removed so am scared to use purge21:03
huuhhhremoving the startup checkbox got rid of that alert about dbus though21:04
fsmithredthe update-rc.d commands don't remove the package. They just remove/replace the links for the init script.21:14
fsmithredthe links that tell wicd in which runlevels it should be running or not21:14
huuhhhyes, I ran those commands and it stopped the error I saw in the bootup text21:16
fsmithredrun the first to keep wicd turned off (across reboots) ; and the second to turn it back on21:20
fsmithredso you should have only run the first one, unless you're planning to use wicd21:21
Humhuuhhh: i am not sure, but apt-get --download-only install wicd makes sure that it is downloaded in /var/cache/apt/archives . Then you can install it without internet-connection21:34
huuhhhcan apt-get install from local or do I have to use dpkg?21:43
huuhhhyeah the update-rc.d command worked well, no problem there21:45
masonhuuhhh: apt can install from a local file - not remembering if apt-get does it21:45
fsmithredI don't think so21:48
fsmithreduse 'dpkg -i <package>'21:48
fsmithredpackage.deb I mean21:49
onefangIf you have not cleared your apt cache, any new install will grab the file from there instead of downloading it again, unless there's been a new version in the mean time.  Or use dpkg on a file like fsmithred said.22:04
init_fr33d0mhi22:20
fsmithredif you have a question, just ask it22:23

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