| premoboss | hello, i guess i can find help here: i hame a videoclip an i must slide it into several pieces. I say, i have videoclip of 10 minutes and i gave to split into 6 pieces of 2,2,1,1,3,1 minutes. THere are some tool that can do y? at least, a pogram to cut form time xx:xx:xx till yy:yy:yy then i can do a script to slide out the pieces i need. | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| mason | premoboss: vlc, ffmpeg, maybe even handbrake | 00:04 |
| premoboss | mason, thanks. | 00:04 |
| mason | bbl, dinner | 00:04 |
| premoboss | bbl? means? | 00:04 |
| djph | "be back later" | 00:04 |
| premoboss | ah, be bac later? | 00:04 |
| premoboss | ok thanks and bye | 00:04 |
| xrogaan | alright, something fishy is going on | 06:18 |
| xrogaan | 2925 upgraded, 558 newly installed, 87 to remove and 0 not upgraded. | 06:18 |
| xrogaan | Need to get 2625 MB of archives. | 06:18 |
| xrogaan | After this operation, 2492 MB of additional disk space will be used. | 06:18 |
| xrogaan | Almost as much additional disk space as the amount of archives needed to be fetch. | 06:19 |
| xrogaan | During ascii->beowulf | 06:19 |
| xrogaan | but there are also a lot of packages that do not get automatically removed | 06:20 |
| xrogaan | I wonder if it is possible to tell apt to do the autoremove alongside the full-upgrade | 06:20 |
| rrq | 2.5 Gb archives? | 06:27 |
| xrogaan | for a full upgrade, yeah | 06:28 |
| xrogaan | the archives are ok, they're stored on a separate disk | 06:32 |
| xrogaan | but 2GiB of extra data? | 06:32 |
| xrogaan | ah, cherrytree is being removed from debian | 06:34 |
| xrogaan | Nice, I need to backup all my notes. | 06:34 |
| testest | hi, was doublecmd removed from devuan repos? | 08:45 |
| testest | fsmithred: hey, in case if interested eudev installed with the 4.9 kernel that installed with ascii cd, with 5.2 it just did not work | 08:46 |
| Joril | testest: just tested on Ascii, doublecmd-gtk and doublecmd-qt are there | 08:49 |
| testest | ah, i guess apt did not use /etc/apt/sources.list only /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list | 08:52 |
| Joril | testest: mmh that would be strange, I think | 09:08 |
| testest | im not blaming anyone though, i will have to look into it, but im preety sure they got skipped as only packages.devuan.org was the link from which the updates downpoured, not auto.mirror.devuan.org as entered into sources.list | 09:18 |
| testest | and yes, it is a litle bit odd | 09:20 |
| testest | because i did not set those into sources.list.d myself but those got auto-generated | 09:20 |
| Joril | Isn't auto.mirror.devuan.org deprecated nowadays? | 09:54 |
| rrq | yes | 09:57 |
| testest | oh anyways deleting /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and anything the directory contained seemed to resort to sources.list in /etc/apt/ | 10:52 |
| DanielTheFox | henlo, long time no see :) | 14:20 |
| xrogaan | Hello from beowulf | 16:53 |
| xrogaan | :D | 16:53 |
| furrywolf | heyas | 16:58 |
| furrywolf | does it work well enough for me to upgrade yet? :) | 16:58 |
| jaromil | i did a year ago, works like a charm | 17:00 |
| jaromil | but well, disclaimer: I use windowmaker, not sure about other DE integrations | 17:00 |
| jaromil | quite certain awesome and i3 work | 17:00 |
| furrywolf | icewm here | 17:01 |
| jaromil | wicd? | 17:01 |
| furrywolf | yes, and I despise it immensely. | 17:02 |
| jaromil | well ... no comment but yea. works :^) | 17:02 |
| furrywolf | no, it doesn't work. | 17:02 |
| jaromil | ...for me :^) not that I like it but works | 17:02 |
| furrywolf | you check the box that tells it to connect automatically... and it does about half the time. the other half the time you have to restart it and manually connect. | 17:02 |
| jaromil | yea same here | 17:03 |
| furrywolf | and it can't even do things like fucking close its own window properly - you close the window, and it instantly re-opens! | 17:03 |
| jaromil | i have a friend who started some fork i think | 17:03 |
| furrywolf | even people learning X writing Hello World in a box manage to make closing the window work properly. | 17:03 |
| jaromil | https://github.com/zeph/wicd | 17:03 |
| jaromil | not sure if complete | 17:04 |
| onefang | Wicd is wicked. Though the only problem I have with it is that it likes to randomly rearrange it's config file, which is a pain when using etckeeper to stuff /etc into git. | 17:04 |
| jaromil | it must be that there is no deterministic sort before saving the conf | 17:08 |
| furrywolf | it can write to its /etc config file? that's... broken by design. | 17:10 |
| furrywolf | yep, looks like it can and does. | 17:10 |
| furrywolf | now I have another reason to hate it. | 17:10 |
| onefang | Synaptic does the same. | 17:11 |
| furrywolf | synaptic at least has an excuse to be system-wide... wicd should be putting stuff in $HOME. | 17:11 |
| onefang | Why? So that each different user can use their own WiFi connection? | 17:12 |
| furrywolf | yeah | 17:12 |
| furrywolf | if one person takes the laptop to work, and another person to their school, etc, it makes no sense for them to all see each others' networks. | 17:13 |
| onefang | Networking is system wide here, and that's the way I like it. | 17:13 |
| furrywolf | especially since wicd will show you plaintext passwords | 17:13 |
| onefang | Ah, shared laptop specific use case. | 17:13 |
| furrywolf | and if only one person uses the laptop, then it doesn't matter whether it's in /etc or $HOME, but one involves programs writing to /etc for no reason and one doesn't. heh. | 17:14 |
| furrywolf | meh, except for the obvious case that you might want the network up before anyone logs in. which is probably valid. | 17:15 |
| onefang | I want my network up at boot time. Though the only portable networked devices I have is my phones, and I don't share them. | 17:15 |
| furrywolf | I just find wicd's level of buggy shittiness way too high for it to be used for any kind of system-level configuration. heh. | 17:18 |
| yeti | I gave up trying to understand "user friedly network managers" | 17:19 |
| mason | I'm much more a fan of ifupdown for all of this. Although for wireless stuff, a bare wpa_supplicant.conf can work. | 17:19 |
| yeti | together | 17:21 |
| mason | Together too, which I only just now realized by reading https://wiki.debian.org/WPA | 17:21 |
| mason | I need to do that now, because as much as I love ifupdown, I love specifying networks in wpa_supplicant.conf even ore. | 17:22 |
| furrywolf | wpa_supplicant is pointlessly difficult to configure, with requiring the key to be generated beforehand with a seperate utility and pasted into the config. | 17:22 |
| mason | more* | 17:22 |
| mason | furrywolf: You can pop a plaintext psk in as well. You don't strictly *need* wpa_passphrase. | 17:23 |
| yeti | ! | 17:23 |
| mason | As for pointlessly difficult, well. | 17:23 |
| furrywolf | mason: eh? is that a new feature? | 17:23 |
| mason | furrywolf: Nah, even the default tool defaults to this: https://bpaste.net/FAYQ | 17:24 |
| mason | It's commented out, but it's valid if you uncomment it. | 17:24 |
| furrywolf | I quite distinctly remember fighting with this a while ago, and getting annoyed at it. | 17:24 |
| mason | But, the new thing today which makes me Very Happy is the handling of "default" as noted by that wiki article. That's neat, and I'm going to start using it. | 17:25 |
| xrogaan | mmh, using synaptic: | 17:32 |
| xrogaan | debconf: Impossible d'initialiser l'interface : Gnome | 17:32 |
| xrogaan | debconf: (Can't locate Gtk3.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Gtk3 module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.28.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.28.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.28 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.28 /usr/share/perl/5.28 /usr/local/lib/site_perl /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base) at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/FrontEnd/Gnome.pm line 151, <> line 16.) | 17:32 |
| xrogaan | well, I don't know anything about that | 17:34 |
| xrogaan | libgtk-perl apparently | 17:37 |
| fsmithred | libgtk3-perl | 17:37 |
| xrogaan | yes | 17:37 |
| xrogaan | Opens a windows instead of using the integrated console. | 17:38 |
| fsmithred | without that you get ncurses debconf screens inst... | 17:38 |
| fsmithred | yup | 17:38 |
| xrogaan | Alright, installed the backport kernel. Gonna reboot. | 17:38 |
| xrogaan | fsmithred: you wanted feedbacks, I have this warning: W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/rtl8125a-3.fw for module r8169 | 17:44 |
| xrogaan | it's probably a debian thing though | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it is | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | and it's old | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | since wheezy at least | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | I think firmware-realtek supplies it | 17:45 |
| xrogaan | yes | 17:45 |
| fsmithred | I know for wheezy I ended up getting a package from ubuntu for a better driver | 17:45 |
| xrogaan | other than that, it went fine. There was a hickup with java I believe. Stopped in the middle, needed to `apt-get install --fix-broken` and it remove/installed some stuff. | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | yeah, libreoffice stuff | 17:46 |
| xrogaan | But I uninstalled libreoffice before the upgrade... | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | this was an upgrade from ascii to beowulf and then you added bpo kernel? | 17:47 |
| xrogaan | yes | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | thanks for feedback | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | did uninstall include autoremove? | 17:48 |
| fsmithred | or purge? | 17:48 |
| xrogaan | I already was using bpo with ascii, and I believe I need a kernel that is more up to date for AMDGPU stuff. | 17:48 |
| xrogaan | libreoffice? I purged it, but it simply uninstalled what was marked as autoinstalled. | 17:49 |
| xrogaan | I don't suppose there is a log of the thing? | 17:49 |
| xrogaan | would help with actual package names | 17:49 |
| fsmithred | ok, then I don't know what did it | 17:49 |
| fsmithred | no full log, just the command in /var/log/apt/history.log | 17:49 |
| xrogaan | I should have used script :( | 17:50 |
| xrogaan | apt purge libreoffice followed with autoremove | 17:50 |
| mason | Oh, FWIW, there was more in the READMEs in /usr/share/doc. End result looks like this: https://bpaste.net/6FRQ | 17:51 |
| xrogaan | (broken-install) >> Install: libjsp-api-java:amd64 (2.3.4-2, automatic), libwebsocket-api-java:amd64 (1.1-1, automatic), libel-api-java:amd64 (3.0.0-2, automatic) | 17:51 |
| fsmithred | mason, have you had a chance to look at the lvm code for cryptsetup? | 17:53 |
| fsmithred | See last commit: https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/cryptsetup-modified-functions | 17:54 |
| xrogaan | libjsp-api-java replace libservlet3.1-java, but libservlet got installed. | 17:54 |
| mason | fsmithred: Oh, I didn't realize I was to review it. I'll do that right now. | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | I've tested it several times and it works. | 17:55 |
| xrogaan | can dpkg.log show failures? | 17:56 |
| fsmithred | I don't know | 17:56 |
| xrogaan | there is just too much in there to check manually, I'd need a keyword | 17:57 |
| mason | fsmithred: I'll have to set up another system to test, as my laptop's using ZFS, not LVM just now, but that looks interesting. I question the quoting a little, and I might have a cleaner alternate I can provide. | 17:57 |
| fsmithred | ok | 17:57 |
| mason | fsmithred: I can get a VM running today to test. | 17:57 |
| fsmithred | I should test it again, too. I know others have been using it for a long time. | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | cool. Thanks. | 17:58 |
| mason | fsmithred: Why the odd quoting, out of curiosity? As in, why the quoting at all in the vgs= assignment? | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | not sure | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | hang on... | 17:58 |
| mason | The quoting in the if [] test is required so it's not a syntax error if empty, but the assignment... I'll exercise it. | 17:59 |
| fsmithred | https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=237 | 17:59 |
| mason | I also tend to give a definite-positive in tests like that... So the empty test would be something like if [ "X$foo" = "X" ]; | 17:59 |
| fsmithred | Patch came from that bug report. I modified the local var assignments to match the newer version | 18:00 |
| mason | I'll get it on my list for today. Also, I still have this notion that we'd ought to do something smarter to identify things that can't be shut down and to allow for graceful retries of things that might, but that's probably too pie in the sky for right now. | 18:01 |
| fsmithred | I'm looking for getting this out the door | 18:02 |
| fsmithred | we can change it later | 18:02 |
| mason | C.f. both systemd and FreeBSD, which just drop root crypto at the end of the world. | 18:02 |
| mason | Yeah, agreed. | 18:02 |
| fsmithred | yeah, the guy in the original debian bug report said he switched to systemd and now it shuts down too fast to see any error messages | 18:02 |
| xrogaan | I need to eat. System seems fine. | 18:03 |
| fsmithred | enjoy your meal. Thanks. | 18:03 |
| mason | fsmithred: FWIW, if he were to turn on persistent journald, he could examine the journal from the last boot on his next boot and see when the shutdown happens. I'm not sure it leaves a visual artifact otherwise. | 18:03 |
| mason | But anyway. | 18:04 |
| fsmithred | might be worth trying that later. | 18:04 |
| xrogaan | oh, I don't have sound | 18:58 |
| mason | xrogaan: make sure it's not muted - that's a common initial-setup issue | 18:59 |
| xrogaan | it's pulse audio that isn't started/starting | 18:59 |
| jpmitchell | Good morning all. | 19:00 |
| jpmitchell | If someone has a moment to help I am having trouble getting updates today. My /etc/apt/sources.list is the same as what is at https://devuan.org/get-devuan | 19:01 |
| jpmitchell | But I am unable to update. | 19:01 |
| onefang | Are you getting an error message? | 19:02 |
| jpmitchell | Yep: Err:10 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii Release | 19:03 |
| jpmitchell | 404 Not Found [IP: 200.236.31.1 80] | 19:03 |
| jpmitchell | Err:11 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security Release | 19:03 |
| jpmitchell | 404 Not Found [IP: 200.236.31.1 80] | 19:03 |
| jpmitchell | Err:12 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates Release | 19:03 |
| mason | xrogaan: Ah, maybe look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf | 19:03 |
| mason | Argh. | 19:03 |
| mason | Oh well. | 19:03 |
| onefang | You are better off using deb.debian.org directly, the use of country codes is deprecated. | 19:04 |
| onefang | As of five minutes ago 200.236.31.1 passed the mirror checking. | 19:06 |
| xrogaan | if I launch pulseaudio manually, it starts alright. But the auto start through xfce fails. | 19:06 |
| mason | xrogaan: Ah, maybe look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf | 19:07 |
| xrogaan | that was it. Thanks | 19:07 |
| mason | xrogaan: Might be worth a bug asking that the default be changed. | 19:07 |
| xrogaan | it's probably a devuan issue though | 19:08 |
| mason | Well, yes. | 19:08 |
| mason | https://bugs.devuan.org/ | 19:08 |
| xrogaan | isn't there a report tool so I don't have to deal with bugzilla's UI? | 19:13 |
| mason | If only it were Bugzilla...! | 19:13 |
| mason | Bugzilla has quite a nice UI. | 19:13 |
| xrogaan | huh, debian BTS then :P | 19:14 |
| xrogaan | it's reportbug | 19:15 |
| xrogaan | I thought there was a GUI for it. | 19:15 |
| onefang | Oops, jpmitchell got spam killed due to reporting the error messages. | 19:16 |
| xrogaan | starts well: Which of the following installed packages is the bug in? -> libpulse0 or libpulse0? | 19:17 |
| onefang | Obviously the first one. B-) | 19:18 |
| xrogaan | > Will send report to Debian (per lsb_release). | 19:18 |
| xrogaan | is that accurate? | 19:18 |
| xrogaan | > Report will be sent to Devuan Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.devuan.org> | 19:25 |
| xrogaan | alright | 19:25 |
| fsmithred | we're not going to fix it | 19:25 |
| xrogaan | needs to be documented, no? | 19:26 |
| fsmithred | but we will mention the fix in the release notes | 19:26 |
| xrogaan | maybe devuan would profit from a small package that "normalize" bad configurations from debian. | 19:26 |
| onefang | We had that idea long ago, but nothing came of it. | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | we have discussed it | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | checking to see if we made a package... | 19:27 |
| xrogaan | oh, it's already in the bts | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | np | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | anyway, there's a package in experimental called devuan-sanity that is make to override insane defaults | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | make/made | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | I think all it does is change a vim config | 19:29 |
| xrogaan | ah ah | 19:29 |
| fsmithred | if someone wanted to adopt the package they could get fancy and make it do all kinds of things | 19:30 |
| fsmithred | preferably by asking the user which things they want to do | 19:30 |
| onefang | Though that could quickly turn into a lengthy Q&A session. | 19:32 |
| xrogaan | it needs to trigger after everything, like needrestart | 19:32 |
| xrogaan | and just list the stuff that might be troublesome | 19:33 |
| xrogaan | no Q&A after a full-upgrade, no sir. | 19:33 |
| xrogaan | oh, I forgot the iptables thing. Do we still use legacy with beowulf? | 19:35 |
| xrogaan | I have a set of rules I populate each boot, seems to be working. | 19:35 |
| furrywolf | speaking of reportbug, I've never been able to make it to work on a desktop, mostly due to local mail issues. it really should use something else to submit bugs. | 19:36 |
| furrywolf | I think the days where the majority of people have a working local mta are gone. | 19:43 |
| furrywolf | (especially with ISPs now blocking every port you might normally use, AND not providing a server of their own that will forward mail for you) | 19:44 |
| fsmithred | iptables priority is important, nftables priority is extra | 19:49 |
| xrogaan | alright, all I have to do now is to wait for xfce4's update to reach backports | 19:52 |
| fsmithred | I don't think that's gonna happen | 19:52 |
| xrogaan | I'm not staying 10 years with an outdated xfce | 20:06 |
| DanielTheFox | I continously stand outdated software and hardware | 20:07 |
| enyc | I *eventually* got my Devuan-beowlf desktop to desktop work properly again... uugh what a mess ;p | 20:10 |
| enyc | very, uerm, 'finnicky' in current hw/sw config | 20:11 |
| xrogaan | ? | 20:16 |
| xrogaan | /run/user/1000/ is being created, but XDG_RUNTIME_DIR isn't being populated. Something to do with pam? | 20:16 |
| enyc | xrogaan: jsut something i'm finding as a user... ascii system upgraded to beowulf .. proving finnicky in many ways | 20:33 |
| enyc | If there can be some amd64 testing install ISOs i may be able to help on the same hardware, see if issues still exist for new-beowulf-install etc | 20:33 |
| surrealpie | i have a problem with apt on devuan, when i run apt update, i get: | 22:02 |
| surrealpie | failed to fetch: http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 185.38.15.91 80] | 22:03 |
| surrealpie | when i look on the repo there is no file named "Packages", although there is "Packages.gz" and "Packages.xz" but i don't know if that's the problem | 22:04 |
| onefang | That IP is a little odd. Are you sure it's 185.38.15.91 and not 185.38.15.81? | 22:06 |
| onefang | You should be using deb.devuan.org instead of auto.mirror.devuan.org. | 22:06 |
| onefang | And most, if not all, Packages fil/es are present on the mirrors as the Packages.gz and Packages.xz files you saw. | 22:07 |
| onefang | In this particular case, it is indeed the .gz and .xz versions in that directory. | 22:09 |
| surrealpie | oops yeah, its 81, not 91 | 22:11 |
| onefang | .81 is my mirror, .91 isn't a Devuan mirror. | 22:12 |
| surrealpie | yeah the error i get says 81, i just typo'd | 22:12 |
| surrealpie | i will try deb.devuan.org | 22:13 |
| onefang | merged/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages should not exist on any mirror, only the .gz and .xz versions. | 22:14 |
| surrealpie | alright, so apt is just not showing the .gz in message | 22:15 |
| surrealpie | i changed the /etc/apt/sources.list | 22:16 |
| surrealpie | to lines like | 22:16 |
| surrealpie | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main | 22:16 |
| surrealpie | instead of auto.mirror.devuan.org | 22:16 |
| surrealpie | i still get similar messages | 22:19 |
| surrealpie | https://pastebin.com/ggqZ9qLj | 22:19 |
| surrealpie | but now GPG error | 22:20 |
| surrealpie | with auto.mirror.devuan.org i don't have the GPG error | 22:21 |
| onefang | Ah, jessie-updates doesn't exist anymore. | 22:21 |
| onefang | I think that's coz Beowulf hos become, or is about to become, stable, so ASCII is old stable, and only jessie-security gets updates. | 22:22 |
| onefang | Or maybe not just yet. | 22:23 |
| onefang | Try removing jessie-updates. | 22:23 |
| golinux | auto.mirror has been deprecated for a long time. | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | surrealpie, when was the last time you did update/upgrade? | 22:45 |
| fsmithred | make sure you have the newest devuan-keyring | 22:46 |
| surrealpie | yeah, i installed an image but i just realized its from 2017 | 22:47 |
| surrealpie | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/embedded/ | 22:47 |
| surrealpie | lol | 22:47 |
| fsmithred | yeah, latest devuan-keyring is 2017.10.03 | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | newer than those images | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | is there some reason you must use jessie? | 22:48 |
| onefang | That'll be why you have deprecated sources and outdated keyring. | 22:48 |
| gnarface | i think they did remove jessie-backports, jessie-security, and jessie-updates | 22:48 |
| surrealpie | there seems to be a more recent one, i will try that | 22:48 |
| onefang | jessie-security is still there. | 22:49 |
| gnarface | surrealpie: yes, you'll want to try ascii first unless you're in a weird situation | 22:49 |
| surrealpie | weird link from another site got me this old image and i didn't look if it was new | 22:50 |
| surrealpie | although the newest one is still from 2018 but with newer version | 22:50 |
| gnarface | https://files.devuan.org/ | 22:50 |
| gnarface | poke around in here a bit, this one is official | 22:51 |
| fsmithred | ascii will work better | 22:51 |
| surrealpie | yeah that's what i got | 22:51 |
| surrealpie | i mean the link | 22:51 |
| surrealpie | gonna go with ascii | 22:51 |
| surrealpie | thx guys | 22:52 |
| onefang | You are welcome. | 22:53 |
| gnarface | good luck. we'll be here if you need us. | 22:53 |
| DanielTheFox | hi there guys | 23:02 |
| DanielTheFox | what desktop environment and/or window manager do you recommend me for lightweight (disk and/or RAM) portable (USB HDD) Devuan usage? | 23:03 |
| fsmithred | xfce is the default and is pretty light | 23:03 |
| DanielTheFox | has anyone used i3wm btw? (just out of curiosity) | 23:04 |
| fsmithred | yes, there are at least a couple of derivative distros that have offered live-isos with i3 | 23:04 |
| DanielTheFox | how it feels like? | 23:05 |
| DanielTheFox | can it display VLC, for instance? | 23:05 |
| DanielTheFox | or just terminals? | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | I assume it can display any graphical apps. | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | I only tried i3 once for a few minutes. | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | It's not clicky enough for my tastes, even though I always have at least one terminal open. | 23:06 |
| DanielTheFox | I'm very terminal-ish | 23:06 |
| DanielTheFox | although sometimes (rather rarely) I fire a GUI up in my main computer | 23:07 |
| DanielTheFox | just to browse stuff that requires JavaScript (normally I use links2) or whenever I want to test stuff like VLC | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | check out Star Linux or Miyolinux: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=9 | 23:08 |
| DanielTheFox | also, what is recommended in case I'm not always online on that Devuan install? there appears to be only one DVD | 23:09 |
| fsmithred | correct | 23:09 |
| DanielTheFox | how can I host a local package mirror? (I only need i686) | 23:10 |
| DanielTheFox | that is, having set beforehand a size limit | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | I think someone posted instructions for that on the forum | 23:10 |
| DanielTheFox | like "I want to host a local mirror that is 8 GB" | 23:11 |
| fsmithred | I think someone said 14GB recently | 23:11 |
| DanielTheFox | oh | 23:11 |
| fsmithred | but that probably holds all arches | 23:11 |
| DanielTheFox | ok | 23:11 |
| DanielTheFox | I thought Devuan was larger | 23:11 |
| gnarface | DanielTheFox: how light do you need it to be? twm is still in the repos... | 23:11 |
| DanielTheFox | gnarface, if it fits in 192 MB RAM, it'll do | 23:12 |
| fsmithred | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt | 23:12 |
| DanielTheFox | otherwise, I think I'm fine with xfce, or screen for pure tty1 guys like me | 23:12 |
| fsmithred | jwm and icewm use less than 192 | 23:12 |
| DanielTheFox | oh, like | 23:12 |
| DanielTheFox | the entire OS | 23:13 |
| fsmithred | xfce will if you make sure no extra stuff is running | 23:13 |
| DanielTheFox | including kernel, stuff, junk | 23:13 |
| DanielTheFox | but not cache | 23:13 |
| DanielTheFox | but I start believing I'm asking for either too minimalistic window managers, or for miracles | 23:14 |
| DanielTheFox | so I'll just stick with screen for low-RAM and non-GUI environments | 23:14 |
| onefang | The mirrors usually redirect packages we share with Debian to Debian mirrors, so your local mirror could be small if you are happy doing that to. | 23:14 |
| DanielTheFox | heh | 23:14 |
| DanielTheFox | ok, I'll read the walkthrough | 23:15 |
| rrq | the sum of all beowulf/main/i386 package sizes is 69,546,192,646 bytes | 23:15 |
| DanielTheFox | maybe I can make it fit within 10 GB | 23:15 |
| DanielTheFox | (installing only the most popular packages and their depends) | 23:15 |
| fsmithred | you might like the minimal-live iso | 23:15 |
| DanielTheFox | well | 23:16 |
| DanielTheFox | I'm sure I can do this tradeoff | 23:16 |
| DanielTheFox | a working install on said USB HDD should use as little space as possible | 23:16 |
| fsmithred | ok, minimal-live might be too bloated for your taste | 23:16 |
| DanielTheFox | however, I can afford to use some few GB (but not 50!) on my main HDD | 23:17 |
| rrq | all "required", "important" and "standard" packages fit within 4G | 23:17 |
| DanielTheFox | fsmithred, I'm happy if an installed and ready-to-work Devuan fits below 1.5 GB | 23:17 |
| fsmithred | that might be possible with gui. Not sure. | 23:18 |
| fsmithred | not a lot of apps, though | 23:18 |
| fsmithred | just cli system it's certainly possible (and pretty easy) | 23:19 |
| DanielTheFox | Debian without GUI does about 800 MB, but as soon as I decide to install screen, htop, wireless stuff, ffmpeg, mplayer, it gets dangerously close to that | 23:19 |
| DanielTheFox | that was, Debian 9 | 23:19 |
| fsmithred | 10 is bigger | 23:19 |
| fsmithred | that's always the case | 23:19 |
| DanielTheFox | yeah | 23:19 |
| DanielTheFox | but again | 23:20 |
| DanielTheFox | I think I'm asking for miracles | 23:20 |
| fsmithred | why 1.5GB? | 23:20 |
| DanielTheFox | because I want to keep the ext3 partition Devuan uses to a minimum | 23:20 |
| DanielTheFox | which I currently consider to be 3.5 GB | 23:21 |
| onefang | If I recall, my server OS is about 1.5 GB for the OS itself. | 23:21 |
| DanielTheFox | (the size of a 4 GB USB) | 23:21 |
| DanielTheFox | 3.5 - 1.5 = 2.0 | 23:21 |
| specing | DanielTheFox: why don't you use a filesystem with compression? | 23:21 |
| DanielTheFox | specing, the same system is expected to work on low-power machines | 23:21 |
| fsmithred | does the OS need to be rw, or would you be ok with read-only on the OS? | 23:21 |
| DanielTheFox | not just i7's all around the place | 23:21 |
| DanielTheFox | and, it needs to be RW | 23:22 |
| specing | DanielTheFox: de-compression is not that expensive compared to GUI | 23:22 |
| DanielTheFox | specing, what about compression? (writing to disk) :) | 23:22 |
| DanielTheFox | maybe that's all I need | 23:22 |
| specing | maybe | 23:23 |
| DanielTheFox | although I expect it to work on a Pentium III or a 2004 Celeron (the earliest systems that support USB booting) | 23:23 |
| onefang | Oh, under 1GB. B-) | 23:23 |
| specing | DanielTheFox: is that i686 even? | 23:23 |
| DanielTheFox | it is :P | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | lol, yes | 23:23 |
| specing | ah ok, Linux dropped <i586 support iirc | 23:23 |
| DanielTheFox | 586 is Pentium (right after 486) | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | 686 began with pentium-pro | 23:23 |
| DanielTheFox | 686 is probab-- | 23:23 |
| DanielTheFox | I was gonna say Pentium II or MMX | 23:24 |
| DanielTheFox | but I wasn't sure | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | another solution might be to use a bigger usb stick. | 23:25 |
| onefang | We still have Devuan ASCII for i386. | 23:25 |
| DanielTheFox | but oh well | 23:25 |
| DanielTheFox | I don't know anymore what exactly I want | 23:25 |
| fsmithred | i386 in name only. It's 686. | 23:25 |
| fsmithred | what's the goal? | 23:26 |
| DanielTheFox | other than replicating the 3-DVD Debian trick into a (faster and better) computer with spare HDD | 23:26 |
| DanielTheFox | we all know a DVD is 4.3 GiB | 23:26 |
| DanielTheFox | (a KB and a KiB are both 2^10 to my eyes, so I may use them inconsistently) | 23:27 |
| DanielTheFox | Debian currently allows downloading three DVDs (the first one being 3.5 GiB) | 23:27 |
| DanielTheFox | 4.3 + 4.3 + 3.5 = 8.6 + 3.5 = 12.1 (?) | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | and I'll let you slide 'cause I always get confused by that math | 23:27 |
| DanielTheFox | I'm not sure either | 23:28 |
| DanielTheFox | so that's roughly 12 GiB | 23:28 |
| DanielTheFox | and I do have spare 12 GiB on my netbook | 23:28 |
| onefang | The math is simple, if you are a marketing person, use the bigger sounding numbers, if you are a programmer use powers of 2. B-) | 23:28 |
| DanielTheFox | onefang, I was born in 2001, but my favorite computers are all back when Microsoft's name was in every machine a regular household human could ever use | 23:29 |
| onefang | Everyone else has ten fingers, use powers of ten, unless you are from USA. | 23:29 |
| DanielTheFox | namely, C64 and no-brand 486-based computers are my favorites, despite not owning either | 23:30 |
| DanielTheFox | either Microsoft or IBM introduced the idea of 1 KB = 1024 bytes | 23:31 |
| onefang | I have a couple of 486 PCs here. | 23:31 |
| DanielTheFox | which was great in low-power CPUs in the 70s and 80s because it's easier to shift left 10 bits than to actually MUL by 1000 | 23:31 |
| onefang | And I'm three times your age. | 23:32 |
| DanielTheFox | namely, the 65XX CPUs (C64, NES, Apple II, Atari 2600) didn't have MUL (nor DIV) opcode, so a MUL requires dozens of cycles | 23:32 |
| DanielTheFox | a left shift uses 1 or 2 cycles per shifted bit (unless it was on RAM, which then becomes 7 cycles) | 23:33 |
| onefang | No need to give me a lesson in these sorts of things. I was programming them professionally back in the day. | 23:35 |
| DanielTheFox | great | 23:36 |
| mrpfilser | devuan beowulf: ibgtkmm-3.0-dev : Depends: libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 (= 3.24.0-2) but 3.24.2-1 is to be installed | 23:36 |
| DanielTheFox | so you know the drill | 23:36 |
| mrpfilser | can i force install libgtkmm-3.0-dev? | 23:36 |
| mrpfilser | or is this something that package maintainer should be informed-of? | 23:36 |
| mrpfilser | why is the depends "=" and not ">=" | 23:37 |
| mrpfilser | "your dependency is too new for me" i do not understand | 23:37 |
| fsmithred | 3.24.2-1 is in ceres, not beowulf | 23:37 |
| mrpfilser | i reupdate and retry | 23:38 |
| onefang | Sometimes newer versions deprecate then remove features, often coz they got replaced by a "better" way. | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | check sources.list | 23:38 |
| mrpfilser | all beowulf in sources.list all packages up-to-date. | 23:38 |
| onefang | Sometimes configuration options get changed gratuitously for each version, I'm looking at you tmux. | 23:39 |
| mrpfilser | can i force install apt install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5:3.24.0-2 | 23:40 |
| onefang | And sometimes package maintainers screw up. | 23:40 |
| mrpfilser | ? | 23:40 |
| fsmithred | mrpfilser, remove 'testing' from sources.list and replace it with 'beowulf' | 23:40 |
| mrpfilser | here is /etc/apt/sources.list http://0x0.st/zCSj.list | 23:40 |
| fsmithred | ok, then I don't know why apt wants to install a package from ceres | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | maybe try 'apt install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-2' | 23:42 |
| mrpfilser | ah i am silly apt install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-2 | 23:42 |
| mrpfilser | thank you fsmithred | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | I glad it works, but it still bugs me that apt wanted to do that | 23:43 |
| mrpfilser | who is the proper person to inform of this? | 23:43 |
| fsmithred | probably debian | 23:44 |
| golinux | mrpfilser: Please do not use "testing" in Devuan sources. It can put you into a world of hurt | 23:44 |
| fsmithred | he's not | 23:44 |
| mrpfilser | i send email to pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org | 23:45 |
| fsmithred | I would try to figure out why it's doing that first | 23:45 |
| fsmithred | examine dependencies of the packages involved | 23:45 |
| fsmithred | something might be screwed up there | 23:46 |
| mrpfilser | this is a subbranch problem of a subbranch problem of my real goal so i have to prune it | 23:48 |
| mrpfilser | thanks again | 23:48 |
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