| fsmithred | ShorTie, take a look here: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/beowulf/main/installer-<ARCH>/current/images/ | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | there are images, isos and netboot files | 00:02 |
| fsmithred | poke around a bit | 00:02 |
| premoboss | hi | 01:34 |
| premoboss | when bewulf will be released? | 01:34 |
| premoboss | hi | 01:35 |
| premoboss | when bewulf will be released? | 01:35 |
| plasma41 | premoboss: When all the remaining bugs get fixed | 01:41 |
| premoboss | plasma41, there is a roadmap? a buglist? | 01:42 |
| gnarface | premoboss: beta installers here if you're that anxious: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/ | 01:43 |
| gnarface | bug tracker is here, though i think the maintainers may have an unofficial list of additional bugs not listed here: http://bugs.devuan.org/ | 01:44 |
| premoboss | i prefere stable release on my production PC :-) | 01:44 |
| premoboss | i can 2wait | 01:44 |
| gnarface | there is no official timeline but it is looking like soon | 01:45 |
| premoboss | thank for buglist link | 01:45 |
| hemimaniac | gnarface: there is "bugs" in beowulf? I been using it since the first mini.iso, other then the clock thing, i say "bugs? 'Absolute HERESY" | 02:02 |
| debdog | nobug.exe ftw \m/ | 02:02 |
| hemimaniac | -------^^ there yer bug, and exe | 02:03 |
| debdog | an update from ascii to beowulf seems stable, relatively. beowulf installer ISOs are still beta, though | 02:04 |
| gnarface | hemimaniac: indeed, many people are already using it in spite of the bugs (which are isolated to a few programs that technically you really don't need) | 02:05 |
| hemimaniac | the only problem i encountered with both the latest netinstall and cinnamon live is on install the timezone and locale settings didn't stick but quickly corrected and all has been right as rain | 02:06 |
| meep_____ | Hey | 04:38 |
| meep_____ | Anybody try out the new beowulf yet? | 04:39 |
| * Xenguy hugs the trailing edge... | 04:43 | |
| Xenguy | I hear it's fine tho, but y'know | 04:43 |
| hemimaniac | meep_____: it good | 04:50 |
| meep_____ | Howso? | 04:51 |
| meep_____ | What toolkit does thunar use? | 04:51 |
| hemimaniac | dunno, i ru nemo w/cinnamon | 04:51 |
| hemimaniac | ru/run | 04:51 |
| meep_____ | Hmm | 04:52 |
| systemdlete2 | when I installed enlightenment, xfce, and kde, apt found all the dependencies and completed the installs without incident. | 05:09 |
| systemdlete2 | But when apt tries to install lxde, it fails on the dependencies. It wants me to supply the individual packages. | 05:09 |
| systemdlete2 | is there a task package for lxde? | 05:09 |
| systemdlete2 | I tried task-lxde-desktop, but not any better, still wants individual packages. | 05:10 |
| meep_____ | Lxde is good | 05:10 |
| systemdlete2 | also I get python errors from pastebinit | 05:12 |
| systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136868/ has the lxde install errors | 05:12 |
| systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136869/ for lxde errors | 05:14 |
| systemdlete2 | (not the other link) | 05:14 |
| rrq | systemdlete2: which iso? | 05:16 |
| systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136872/ for the pastebinit errors | 05:17 |
| systemdlete2 | (or warnings) | 05:17 |
| systemdlete2 | rrq: desktop | 05:18 |
| systemdlete2 | desktop for x86_64 | 05:18 |
| rrq | ok hmm supposedly lxde is in that pool | 05:19 |
| systemdlete | rrq: But when I got to the software selection, I took the defaults. All I got was xfce4 | 05:19 |
| systemdlete | I had to add enlightenment and kde, both of which installed without problems | 05:20 |
| rrq | "not being in menu" is due to not being installable (I think).. | 05:22 |
| rrq | but i've forgotten the ultimate reason for that | 05:23 |
| systemdlete | yes, that has been a source of confusion for me since the first time I tried to install jessie | 05:24 |
| systemdlete | (no, this is beowulf) | 05:24 |
| systemdlete | every release of devuan I try to recall why things are this way | 05:25 |
| systemdlete | rrq: apt finds lxde, but then it wants lxde-session. So I try to install lxde-session, then it watns more dependencies, and so forth. | 05:26 |
| golinux | systemdlete: Have you read the Release Notes? There is something about lxde in there | 05:26 |
| systemdlete | It doesn't automatically compile the dependencies. | 05:26 |
| systemdlete | ah! | 05:26 |
| systemdlete | (I always forget about the release notes... duh. Thanks!) | 05:26 |
| golinux | .me gors to find the link | 05:26 |
| golinux | goes. | 05:27 |
| golinux | Also use the beta.devuan.org site for beowulf documentation | 05:27 |
| golinux | https://beta.devuan.org/os/install | 05:27 |
| golinux | It's the first link on that page. | 05:28 |
| rrq | i remember i did some cursory investigation.. give me a moment to re-run | 05:28 |
| golinux | ### About LXDE | 05:29 |
| golinux | LXDE is not presented as a choice during installation but can be added | 05:29 |
| golinux | after booting into the new system. Note that there is a bug in lxsession | 05:29 |
| golinux | that requires LXDE be installed without Recommends. (Debian bug #952679) | 05:29 |
| golinux | apt --no-install-recommends install lxde | 05:29 |
| systemdlete | Yeah. Just read that. | 05:29 |
| systemdlete | but... "recommends" not something about dependencies? Doesn't make sense to me. | 05:29 |
| gnarface | recommends are optional dependencies | 05:32 |
| gnarface | they're on by default, but you can change that | 05:32 |
| systemdlete2 | right. Exactly they are optional. | 05:32 |
| systemdlete2 | But why should that prevent dependency checking? | 05:32 |
| gnarface | probably one of those packages is broken | 05:33 |
| rrq | not sure about apt's reasoning, but if you install policykit-1 and lxsession-logout first by hand then task-lxde-desktop should install... all using the desktop iso without (ever) haning network. | 05:34 |
| systemdlete2 | but if they are optional, why would that matter? | 05:34 |
| rrq | haning = having | 05:34 |
| systemdlete2 | well, lxde is now installed, so thanks. | 05:34 |
| gnarface | systemdlete2: it's not smart enough to decide not to include them if they're broken after it starts trying to actually install them | 05:34 |
| rrq | i.e., allpackages are there, but apt is doing some (faulty?) protective reasoning | 05:35 |
| gnarface | yea, aptitude is supposed to be better at routing around those type of aults | 05:35 |
| gnarface | *faults | 05:35 |
| gnarface | (though i find it also tends to overthink stuff) | 05:35 |
| systemdlete2 | and no one at debian noticed this? | 05:35 |
| systemdlete2 | but that would be for the social channel I guess | 05:36 |
| gnarface | :( it probably works fine if you have systemd installed. that's the usual pattern here. | 05:36 |
| onefang | I'm sure they noticed and are working an folding apt into systemd to "fix" things. | 05:36 |
| systemdlete2 | of course, onefang. I keep forgetting to frame my thinking in the mode of systemd | 05:37 |
| systemdlete2 | It doesn't exist for me. | 05:37 |
| systemdlete2 | It's dead to me. | 05:37 |
| systemdlete2 | If I think about systemd, it triggers me | 05:38 |
| onefang | Maybe you should change your nick to LeteDevuanUser? B-) | 05:38 |
| onefang | Maybe you should change your nick to LeteDevuanUser? B-) | 05:47 |
| systemdlete2 | onefang: I'm not a gamer or heavy hitter on the web, so that whole "lete" meme is not relevant to me I think. | 06:13 |
| systemdlete2 | I'm now testing the sound. It sounds pretty good, even on a beat-up old pair of speakers. | 06:14 |
| systemdlete2 | No problems to report re any of the desktops so far, other than my success at crashing enlightenment a couple of times. heheheh | 06:17 |
| systemdlete2 | onefang: btw, don't you mean letedebianuser? | 06:19 |
| systemdlete2 | When I look up "lete" or "l3t3", I don't get any references to computing or software. So I forget what that more obscure explanation is, sorry. l3t3 is a heartburn drug, but I'm sure you are not meaning that. | 06:24 |
| systemdlete2 | by the way, I've been prescribed prevacid in the past. THat's all I know about it. | 06:25 |
| meep_____ | systemdlete2 | 06:28 |
| meep_____ | Cocaine | 06:28 |
| systemdlete2 | holy crap | 06:28 |
| systemdlete2 | cocaine? | 06:28 |
| meep_____ | Yes | 06:28 |
| systemdlete2 | LOL | 06:28 |
| systemdlete2 | how is cocaine related to l3t3? | 06:29 |
| meep_____ | Isn't it obvious? | 06:29 |
| systemdlete2 | no sir. I have never used it. | 06:29 |
| meep_____ | Liar | 06:29 |
| meep_____ | It's a replacement for sleep | 06:30 |
| systemdlete2 | seriously, I never touch drugs, except MJ a few times (and I do mean a few) | 06:30 |
| * systemdlete2 switches to another desktop | 06:31 | |
| meep_____ | Sleep is for pussies | 06:31 |
| meep_____ | Like toilet paper | 06:32 |
| meep_____ | I always say, be a man and use your hand | 06:32 |
| systemdlete | pacapt was supported in jessie and ascii. But I don't find it in beowulf. | 06:43 |
| systemdlete | backports? | 06:44 |
| rrq | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/pacapt | 06:47 |
| systemdlete2 | :( | 06:49 |
| systemdlete2 | It's just a script, so I suppose I could download it manually. Put it in a local bin. | 06:49 |
| ruenoak | password | 08:18 |
| ruenoak | 181273 | 08:19 |
| golinux | ruenoak: Oopsie | 08:19 |
| * jl4 is using fresh cinammon + Beowulf | 13:41 | |
| jl4 | hey, i'm experiencing audio issues... when on WebRTC videconference like Jitsi, is it related to PulseAudio issues... or may tweak it somehow ? | 13:42 |
| kiwi_8 | hi, /var/log/syslog is not rotated in my ascii from 9.2019, so it is 1,9G. Kern.log neither but dmesg.1.gz is, and /etc/crontab dayly seems fine with logrotate. I could not however find an entry logrotate in syslog. Anybody an idea? Tia. | 15:36 |
| fsmithred | kiwi_8, check /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog | 15:42 |
| kiwi_8 | There are line entries for /var/log/syslog and kern.log. | 15:46 |
| fsmithred | bunch of others, too. | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | for syslog, rotate 7, daily | 15:48 |
| fsmithred | and more | 15:48 |
| kiwi_8 | yes everything ok there. now I found 16 entries in syslog ... CRON[29512]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily ))", if that should trigger the logrotate. | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | in /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog, I have after 'postrotate'... | 15:55 |
| fsmithred | invoke-rc.d rsyslog rotate > /dev/null | 15:55 |
| fsmithred | not sure what that does | 15:55 |
| fsmithred | afk, back in a little while | 15:55 |
| kiwi_8_2 | hallo | 16:34 |
| kiwi_8_2 | I was out dont know why: here my last message: | 16:34 |
| kiwi_8_2 | "/etc/init.d/rsyslog rotate" gave not logs rotated; : grep daily /etc/anacrontab: 1 5 cron.daily run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily, seemed ok, but here I loose signal, too. | 16:35 |
| kiwi_8_2 | Thanks for the given help, first, and for further in advance | 16:35 |
| kiwi_8_2 | kiwi_8_2=kiwi_8 | 16:35 |
| kiwi_8_2 | ,and I got mainly the same picture on a 38k lines syslog on another fresh ascii install, too. So I do not know it this was bug to report - or feature. Thanks for a comment. | 16:43 |
| fsmithred | kiwi_8_2, it looks like you didn't miss anything while you were gone | 16:43 |
| kiwi_8_2 | ok | 16:44 |
| fsmithred | I checked and there are no bugs on rsyslog in devuan | 16:44 |
| kiwi_8_2 | So you are using devuan non-ascii and have your logrotation in order, I understand? | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | ascii and beowulf | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | two asciis and one beowulf. I didn't have to do anything. Did you start with a minimal install? | 16:51 |
| kiwi_8_2 | A live cd install twice, was it. I shall narrow down the bug with a minimal install, before reporting anything, but in the end the default non-rotatation was not a bug, I fear. (; | 16:54 |
| fsmithred | in ascii, someone else would have hit it by now, I think | 16:55 |
| kiwi_8_2 | So it is definitely not a feature, but an occasional bug (maybe here). After I found the cause and a workaround, once, I can send a b-report. Thanks so far. | 17:03 |
| kiwi_8_2 | Overwrote in /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog the hidden default with "size 10k", and logrotate /etc/logrotate.conf and then that seems to fix it here indeed. | 17:45 |
| mason | So, I need to hunt this down, but I uploaded a Beowulf ISO to Vultr and spun up an instance, and the network configuration hangs with allow-hotplug, although it works fine with auto. | 18:46 |
| mason | So, not quite to equivalent as I had thought. | 18:47 |
| fsmithred | mason, you can patch /etc/init.d/networking to get rid of the delay (and keep allow-hotplug) | 19:19 |
| mason | fsmithred: I still want to figure out just what it's doing for me that I want. | 19:20 |
| fsmithred | did you read the message from Didier in the link I posted a few days ago? | 19:23 |
| mason | Not remembering. I'll look. | 19:23 |
| fsmithred | about a regression in the upstream source code | 19:23 |
| fsmithred | and the patch | 19:23 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=15493#p15493 | 19:24 |
| mason | Ah, found in in the logs and reading now, but thank you for relinking it. | 19:24 |
| mason | fsmithred: Thank you. Interesting. | 19:26 |
| systemdlete | So how about those pastebinit errors? It still works, but is this a known bug (maybe because of a change to newer python?) | 21:14 |
| systemdlete | Oh. There is no maintainer anymore... Just like pacapt. | 21:16 |
| systemdlete | I really want to say a bad word right now. | 21:17 |
| * yeti ____( a bad word! ) | 21:18 | |
| systemdlete | Minor issue, but can no longer install VirtualBox Extension Pack (not the Guest Additions!) from the VBox GUI. Have to do it from command line as of Beowulf because the X server does not have root privileges. Has to be done from command line. See https://kifarunix.com/install-virtualbox-extension-pack-on-virtualbox-6-0/ | 21:59 |
| systemdlete | (fair warning: That page is full of ads, but explains how to correct the problem.) | 22:00 |
| systemdlete | Not sure this counts as a true bug, but maybe something for the release notes. | 22:01 |
| systemdlete | there may be a way to do this using VBoxManage... | 22:10 |
| systemdlete | the main problem is that the user must be in sudoers which may be undesirable generally, depending on how one wants to admin beowulf. So one would need to do this temporarily. | 22:13 |
| systemdlete | This may prove to be a nuisance, given that vbox generally puts out an update about every 6 weeks or so. | 22:23 |
| systemdlete | Steps: 1. Install linux-headers for current kernel. 2. Run /sbin/vboxadd. 3. Add user to sudoers file if needed. 4. Run virtualbox under sudo. 5. Add the extension pack. 6. remove user from sudoers, if desired. | 22:27 |
| systemdlete | Every 6 weeks, rinse and repeat. | 22:27 |
| systemdlete | An alternative, I guess, could be to set the xhost to add the root user's access somehow. But I have always found that to be a pain also. That can also take one down the garden path. | 22:29 |
| systemdlete | (I want to say another bad word here.) | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | you want to start desktop apps as root? | 22:29 |
| systemdlete | No. I do not want to. Not at all, not in the least. But thank you, because virtualbox devs apparently want you to. | 22:30 |
| systemdlete | (just clarifying that, fsmithred!) | 22:30 |
| fsmithred | ok | 22:30 |
| fsmithred | the behavior of su changed in buster/beowulf | 22:31 |
| systemdlete | ooh. THat's right. | 22:31 |
| fsmithred | not sure why it's a surprise that you need to be root to install software | 22:31 |
| systemdlete | It isn't. The "surprise" is that a regular user can no longer install the extension pack. | 22:32 |
| systemdlete | I've never had to do anything special like this in the past. | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I guess you're right. I stopped using the oracle version some time ago. | 22:33 |
| systemdlete | I didn't find vbox in the repo, but maybe I didn't try hard enough. In fact, prob I didn't | 22:33 |
| fsmithred | in beowulf? | 22:34 |
| systemdlete | yup | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | oh, weird. I thought I had it installed in beowulf. | 22:35 |
| systemdlete | I thought I had also, months ago, long before the beta came out. | 22:35 |
| systemdlete | In fact, I am almost 100% certain I had. It is one of those things I always test for because I can't really upgrade until it is there. I am looking into using libvirt, etc, but I haven't moved very far on that project yet. | 22:36 |
| fsmithred | I've been using qemu | 22:37 |
| systemdlete | Of course, the beta clobbered my previous, self-created beowulf. | 22:37 |
| systemdlete | So, basically (per release notes), su can run an arbitrary command just like sudo, but requires the root password. That will save a couple of steps. | 22:41 |
| systemdlete | But it is still clumsy. Unless someone writes a script to handle all this, the release notes might offer a hand with this task. | 22:41 |
| systemdlete | Of course, some idiots(*) do not read release notes. | 22:42 |
| systemdlete | (Footnote: * - like systemdlete) | 22:42 |
| fsmithred | you can so su -c <command> | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | but I think you still might want to revert to the old behavior | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | if you use su, you don't get root's path. If you use | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | 'su -' you do get root's path, but you get switch to /root from wherever you are | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | and can't start desktop apps in user's session | 22:44 |
| systemdlete | Oh, I thought the new syntax was "su /path/to/command" or "su command" The manual page for ascii says su -c cannot be used for interactive commands. | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | I didn't know that last part | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | so 'su -c fdisk' would not work? | 22:48 |
| systemdlete | I'm not sure I'm right | 22:49 |
| fsmithred | checking... | 22:50 |
| systemdlete | -c, --command COMMAND | 22:50 |
| systemdlete | Specify a command that will be invoked by the shell using its -c. | 22:50 |
| systemdlete | The executed command will have no controlling terminal. This option cannot be used to execute | 22:50 |
| systemdlete | interactive programs which need a controlling TTY. | 22:50 |
| systemdlete | I have a terrible habit, it seems, of either not reading something, or mis-reading it | 22:51 |
| systemdlete | I'm trying to slow myself down. | 22:51 |
| fsmithred | you go slower when there's two of you? | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | anyway, this works... | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | su -c '/sbin/gdisk /dev/sdd' | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | it's odd that I had to give it the full path, because I did change the behavior of su | 22:53 |
| systemdlete2 | but try " su - root -c /usr/bin/virtualbox" (you have to pass "-" to get the PATH) | 22:54 |
| systemdlete2 | this is only on beowulf, not ascii | 22:55 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that worked | 22:55 |
| systemdlete2 | the syntax passes, and the system tries to run the executable, but it fails because it cannot connect to the display (surprise, surprise) | 22:55 |
| fsmithred | not exactly that - I repeated my command without the full path to gdisk | 22:55 |
| systemdlete2 | something like fdisk might work | 22:55 |
| fsmithred | gdisk is like fdisk | 22:56 |
| systemdlete2 | is gdisk a true GUI or just a curses program | 22:58 |
| systemdlete2 | Try a x11 or the like program | 23:00 |
| systemdlete2 | Yes, I go slower when Helicopter Me is supervising the Lazy Me | 23:05 |
| systemdlete2 | I find that even if I run "xhost +" I still get the errors about not being able to connect to an X host | 23:14 |
| systemdlete2 | xmon is not available? | 23:29 |
| systemdlete2 | no xev either... ok | 23:30 |
| systemdlete2 | it will be close to impossible to find out what the error is | 23:30 |
| mason | Why no xev? | 23:32 |
| systemdlete2 | no xscope either | 23:34 |
| systemdlete2 | apparently these were not in ascii either | 23:35 |
| mason | systemdlete2: apt-file seems broken just at the moment, but xev ought to be in x11-utils | 23:36 |
| mason | Oh, hrm, only broken if I run it through sudo. This is something to explore. But, anyway, systemdlete2: install x11-utils. | 23:37 |
| systemdlete2 | oh | 23:37 |
| systemdlete2 | one of the pages I found said to apt-get install xev etc | 23:37 |
| systemdlete2 | xev is already installed. IT's the others I might need... | 23:39 |
| mason | looking | 23:39 |
| systemdlete2 | xtrace is there actually | 23:39 |
| mason | oi, the mirrors are so painfully slow. | 23:39 |
| systemdlete2 | root is missing an Xauthority file which is why the su command fails | 23:45 |
| systemdlete2 | (thanks to xtrace to help me figure it out) | 23:45 |
| mason | Oh, haha. apt-file search is unhappy if I use yum provides syntax. Cough. | 23:47 |
| fsmithred | systemdlete2, sorry, I wandered away. gdisk is not a curses program. Just text. Like fdisk with most of the same key commands. | 23:54 |
| systemdlete2 | np. I found that curses programs will work, interactive etc. But X11 programs will not connect due to root missing an xauth file, which I am now working on. | 23:56 |
| mason | cgdisk and cfdisk are curses | 23:56 |
| systemdlete2 | This really is the HARD way to do things. sudo makes it much easier, really, and even then it is a long drawn-out ordeal | 23:57 |
| systemdlete2 | mason: I can confirm that cfdisk works in su -c | 23:58 |
| systemdlete2 | (thanks) | 23:58 |
| mason | Those are my preferred interfaces, although when scripting I use parted. | 23:58 |
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