libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-04-23

crashoverrideguys03:08
crashoverrideI gotta aay03:08
crashoverridesay*03:08
crashoverrideDevun Ascii is surprisingly great03:08
crashoverrideDevuan*03:08
crashoverridedamn software keyboard03:08
ullet_compared to what crashoverride ?03:16
plasma41crashoverride: Glad to hear it03:29
bgstack15Devuan Jessie?03:30
bgstack15I think each release's unique color scheme is really cool. Purpy, cinnabar, and the next one... (spoilers!)03:30
furrywolfneeds more wolves.  :P03:31
ullet_i got nasa footage 4k as live backdrop for my devuan box (jetson nano)03:34
ullet_*video03:34
ullet_https://files.catbox.moe/c7jzg2.jpg03:34
ullet_with some classical music, it makes a nice workplace03:35
plasma41ullet_: Pretty03:40
ullet_nice thing about mplayer is i can adjust brightness, contrast, saturation interactively to get just the colors i want03:41
ullet_i slow it down to about 1000kph :)03:41
ullet_plasma41: finished a new unicode art poster too https://0x0.st/ijbW.png03:54
ullet_120 characters wide03:54
plasma41ullet_: Is that done with colored space characters?04:02
ullet_unicode blocks yield much higher percieved resolution ▅▃▂▃▂▄  ▄▅04:03
ullet_that's the xterm 256 color palette, not truecolor btw04:04
golinuxAll that belongs over at #debianfork.04:08
golinux(Some slow learners hang in this channel)04:09
XenguyThey have signs over in Scotland that say "Slow Children"  Great for tourist photos and hamming it up : -)04:13
meep_____» [11:01:20] <mason> meep_____: There aren't enough competent Unix admins out there, so Windows admins or folks who aren't systems administrators at all get pressed into the role.05:20
meep_____» [11:01:37] <mason> With any luck they end up liking the stuff and become real Unix admins.05:20
meep_____The good ending is they become competent unix admins. The bad ending is that they don't understand the way UNIX works and try to make it more like windows, start adding things like systemd to mimic scvhost and dbus05:20
ullet_anybody hom07:22
ullet_where openbsdtai12307:22
meep_____No07:43
meep_____Oh! Oven bake macaroni is done =307:43
ullet_congrats07:43
onefangIs oven bake macaroni a Devuan package you need support for?07:44
meep_____Yes07:46
* meep_____ places a macaroni on onefang's fang07:46
onefangI'm not finding it in the package list, maybe try looking for it in #debianfork?07:47
meep_____I'm sorry onefang07:50
JTechnohello friends10:08
JTechnoI've installed tftp and openbsd-inetd, in file /etc/inetd.conf the line for the tftpd server is uncommented, /etc/hosts.allow has ALL:ALL but it still doesn't work, do I need to do something more?10:09
JTechnonvm10:20
eyalrozHello fellow devuaners... a question about UVC devices ( = webcams).10:26
gnarfaceJTechno: what was it?10:44
gnarfaceeyalroz: don't ask for permission, just ask10:44
eyalrozWhy does devuan have uvcdynctrl, but not v4l2-ctl?10:49
Humpelstilzcheneyalroz: My devuan has v4l2-ctl in package v4l-utils10:51
gnarfaceeyalroz: it has both, i promise.  not all devices will work with both though, it is driver dependent.11:02
eyalrozwell, when I try to install the latter, I get:11:02
eyalrozThe following packages have unmet dependencies:11:03
eyalroz v4l-utils : Depends: libv4l-0 (= 1.16.3-3) but 1.18.0-1 is to be installed11:03
eyalrozMaybe something is busted with my apt cache?11:03
gnarfacesomething is busted, that's for sure.11:04
gnarfacelooks like evidence of distro or release-version mixing11:04
gnarfaceit's saying that it's looking for the beowulf version of libv4l but it's only finding the ceres version11:05
JTechnognarface: all was working, but for my tests I was trying tftp localhost and it was trying to connect to ::1, I have ipv6 disabled11:06
gnarfacei'm sorry to say that this is almost certainly evidence of a self-inflicted injury.  do you have any ideas where it might have gone wrong?  usually has something to do with mismanaging contents of /etc/apt/sources.list or downloading ubuntu packages11:06
gnarfaceeyalroz: ^11:06
eyalrozgnarface: I'll have a look11:06
gnarfaceeyalroz: your /var/log/apt/history.log* files may have useful records of the incident.  you'll have to find something non-beowulf that got installed somewhere along the line11:07
eyalrozgnarface: Is there something specific I can grep for in those files?11:08
gnarfaceall it's got is just package names, versions, and dates.  you're gonna need to grep your brain a little too.11:09
gnarfaceeyalroz: you can also use this to verify what versions you should have https://pkginfo.devuan.org/11:10
gnarfaceeyalroz: or you can just try it again with aptitude and have it suggest fixes, throw your fate into the cold dead hands of the machine's will and hope for the best...11:11
eyalrozgnarface: For now, here are the URLs for my apt sources: https://pastebin.com/raw/jGXj0Xx811:11
gnarfaceoh shit11:11
eyalrozI do have two Ubuntu-related repos11:11
gnarfacewell i think i see your issue11:12
eyalrozfor Signal and Telegram11:12
gnarfaceyea this is a mess, this is like a textbook example of reckless disregard11:13
gnarfacedon't use any of this11:13
gnarfacedon't use deb-multimeida11:13
gnarfacefor god sake's don't use ubuntu ppa's EVER, not even on ubuntu11:13
gnarfaceyou loaded the gun with the wrong bullets then pointed it straight at your foot11:13
eyalrozgnarface: T_T11:14
gnarfacei can't even be sure it's repairable, but i can be fairly certain it would be faster to just reinstall11:14
gnarfacenext time use some containers like qemu or vbox or something for the out-of-distro stuff, so you don't hose your base install's dependency tree11:15
gnarfacei know i know, ubuntu people say this is just fine11:15
gnarfacebut they're not qualified to be giving technical advice11:15
gnarfacewell11:16
eyalrozgnarface: Not going to use containers; the current state of affairs is preferable for me, despite it seeming abysmal to you...11:16
eyalrozAlso - I used debian-multimedia.org to get avidemux11:16
eyalrozbut maybe I can just install it from sources11:16
gnarfacewell, lemme say that i have been in this situation before, and i can understand wanting to just unravel it by hand and only take steps forward, no going back.  i'm sure it'll teach you a lot about the internals of package management too, so maybe it's worth the effort (the first time anyway)11:17
gnarfacebut i'm going to lay some real time measurements on you11:17
gnarfaceit's gonna take about 40 minutes to reinstall if you have a fast internet connection11:17
eyalrozOk, I can take it. I think.11:17
gnarfacefixing this mess though... it's gonna take you DAYS11:17
gnarfaceand frankly... i can't really help11:17
gnarfaceit would even take ME days11:18
eyalroz40 minutes for just the reinstall. A lot more time to get everything else in place. Of course, I'm not asking for you to spend time on this, but - is there a direction you could point me at?11:18
gnarfaceyes, in the future, installing by source is a preferable option, just make sure you create packages on install (you can use checkinstall for that, it's in the repos)11:18
gnarfacehmmm.  well i mentioned it sarcastically earlier but try out aptitutde, really11:19
gnarfaceclean up your sources.list to only have devuan beowulf stuff, then ask aptitude how to solve the problem11:19
eyalrozyou mean, trying to install v4l-utils via aptitutde and see what it does?11:19
gnarfaceyea11:19
eyalrozand make all of the installed non-Beowulf "orphaned" by removing their repos?11:20
gnarfaceyea, otherwise aptitude won't even know what's supposed to be there or not11:20
eyalrozs/non-Beowulf/non-Beowulf packages/11:20
eyalrozI guess I could try that.11:20
gnarface(brace for impact, the first thing it's probably gonna tell you is it's gotta uninstall a bunch of stuff first)11:20
gnarface(just pay attention to what - don't let it uninstall something you need to boot, like the kernel)11:21
eyalrozAh... that's the hairy part. Ok, got it.11:21
gnarfacehttp://paste.debian.net/1142389/11:21
gnarfacehere is an example pristine beowulf sources.list for your reference11:22
gnarfaceit includes contrib and non-free but you don't necessarily need them (i hope you know whether you do or not though, because i can't tell you)11:22
eyalrozI really need to read up on checkinstall though, that sounds useful. I'm used to just assuming I need to put all my built-from-source software under /opt to avoid having to track anything.11:22
gnarfacecheckinstall just makes a quick&dirty apt package by snaring the "make install" option.  it's very useful and not difficult to understand11:23
gnarfacethe primary value is just that then you can cleanly uninstall stuff without thinking about it11:23
eyalrozI never edit my sources.list, I only put stuff in sources.list.d, so I have the pristine one11:23
gnarfaceoh ok11:24
gnarfacewell that's good11:24
eyalrozI mean, I may have "dirtied" my system, but it's all in an orderly fashion.11:24
eyalrozI even have a log file where, whenever I add an apt repository, I make an entry and mention that, explaining why I'm using it11:25
eyalroz(I mean, human-readable log)11:25
gnarfacewell you might be able to untrace the issue by hand even then, i dunno11:29
gnarfacei just know that going in blind would be a big project for me11:29
gnarfacei've focused my learning with the linux ecosystem towards specifically avoiding messes like these, so my most useful advice is primarily preventative11:30
gnarfacebecause it might just be one package conflict and you might find it quick11:31
gnarfaceor... it might be the whole desktop environment got pulled in from ubuntu, and now you've painted yourself into a corner where most the system isn't even really devuan anymore, and the tools don't know up from down11:31
gnarfacefollow me?11:31
gnarfacei speak from personal experience11:32
gnarfacemaybe this time you went in with your eyes open11:33
gnarfaceback then, i know i never did11:33
crashoverrideullet_: compared to any other linux distro11:35
crashoverrideliterally any.11:35
crashoverrideit's all shit now.11:35
crashoverrideI can't find one that actually works for me.11:35
crashoverridewell, maybe aside devuan, that is.11:36
ullet_do any of you know algorithms for synthizing the simple algorithmic sound effects that williams electronics et all used in arcade games in the 80s?11:43
ullet_i know just a couple simple ones11:43
ullet_sorry wrong chan11:43
crashoverrideullet_: well, those sound effects were really simple, combination of wave, square, and triangle waveforms.11:52
crashoverrideullet_: so it's not as much "algorithms" that you're searching for, as "combination of basic waveforms"11:53
crashoverrideullet_: if you have access to the sounds you're interested in, I suggest using FFTs11:54
crashoverrideotherwise, well, try a VST plugin11:54
crashoverrideullet_: you can also read about chiptunes11:56
crashoverrideor, if you're in the UK, crisptunes.11:56
ullet_i guess i'm looking specifically for ones equivalent to the ones Williams Electronics innovated with the 'Firepower' pinball game, then used in Defender, Stargate, Robotron11:57
crashoverridehmm11:57
crashoverrideI don't know those specific games11:57
crashoverridebut once again, FFTs are your friends.11:57
ullet_i've studied the common synthesis techniques11:57
ullet_they were done with <1mhz hardware, no cpu for fft11:58
onefangOlder electronic music was done in analogue, no digital at all.11:59
crashoverrideyeah12:05
crashoverridebut you don't do the FFT on the device that generates the sound12:05
eyalrozgnarface: Worked like a charm, even without aptitutde. I remove the newer version of libv4l. It removed about 30 non-critical packages. Then I apt install'ed the older version, and finally installed the packages which got removed earlier.12:05
crashoverrideit'd be like trying to run an oscilloscope directly on a dozen transistor constructs12:06
gnarfaceeyalroz: hooraaay!!!12:06
gnarfaceeyalroz: glad you got it sorted out12:06
gnarfaceeyalroz: i recommend making a backup of the working system12:07
eyalrozgnarface: I only back up my user data, can't be bothered to back up the rest of the system :-P12:09
eyalroz(ok, well, that and a copy of /etc)12:09
gnarfaceeyalroz: i really recommend the package tree this time, your setup seems really fragile, anyone could break that upstream on you at any time12:10
eyalrozthe package tree - that's in /var/apt, right?12:10
gnarfacewell, sorry, to be more specific i'd back up /etc, /usr, /var, and /home12:11
eyalrozthat's much too much much for me. But I guess it's sound advice generally.12:12
gnarfacedoing that "user-data only and /etc" is safe if you're using only 1st-party components of a single specific distro.  the more you mix the more you risk hitting a sort of chain reaction where it pulls in a conflicting version of apt or dpkg or something critical, and then you've made a mess you can't back out of with them12:12
eyalrozI can always reinstall if push comes to shove.12:13
gnarfacetrue12:13
gnarfaceat the very least, backup "dpkg -l" output so you can see what versions of everything you had, you can maybe infer what repos they were from if you need to later12:14
gnarfacebuilding your own packages is more work up front but saves time later12:15
eyalrozgnarface: I can do that, sure.12:22
ullet_r/415:02
gnarfaceare there any tools for color balance calibration anymore?  i can't seem to find the gtk tool i used to use17:44
gnarfacei don't mean like nvidia-settings either17:44
gnarfacei mean something to help me measure and calibrate, not just configure17:45
ullet_i forgot17:46
fsmithredgnarface, like gpick?17:48
fsmithredselect a color on screen and it gives you the hex code17:49
fsmithredor you mean screen temp?17:49
ullet_temp17:49
ullet_gamma etc17:49
fsmithredyeah, I was looking for that recently. Can't remember if I found one. I don't think so.17:50
ullet_heh17:51
ullet_i could do so much more with a good memory17:51
fsmithredI don't know if I could do more, but I sure could do it faster17:51
gnarfacethere was a hacky one that worked surprisingly well, and it just had 3 colored squares on the screen, red, green, blue, with a white-checkered pattern in the middle of each to help you zero them out while your eyes were half-crossed17:52
gnarfaceit was called gtk-something17:52
gnarfacegtk-gamma?17:52
gnarfaceor maybe gtk-something-something17:52
gnarfaceas i recall, it was deprecated but i'm surprised nobody replaced it17:53
ullet_hardkernel has a nice low price sbc out - odroid-C4 https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c4/17:53
fsmithredkgamma5 - monitor calibration panel for KDE17:53
gnarfacehmm, noted fsmithred17:53
fsmithredalso vtgamma17:53
gnarfacethanks17:53
gnarfacehmm, vtgamma is for virtual terminals?17:54
fsmithredbut they might be like redshift, which gives you 57 ways to set gamma but no way to just read the current settings17:54
fsmithredvtgamma - gamma correction for terminals17:54
fsmithredI know nothing about it17:54
HyperTableschromium on ascii is at 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1 is this safe? there's some serious CVEs reported on it: Heap buffer overflow in ANGLE in Google Chrome prior to 75.0.3770.80 allowed a remote attacker to potentially exploit heap corruption via a crafted HTML page.18:19
HyperTableswell I noticed the CVEs above the shipped version never go above 6.8, there must be a cutoff CVE score above which an upgrade is done18:21
gnarfaceHyperTables: well, if you have ascii-security in your sources.list it's supposed to have gotten patches up to a certain point (some point far later than the major version would imply)18:22
gnarfaceHyperTables: i'm not sure if that point is "current" but there might be a newer version in ascii-backports...18:23
HyperTableswell I do have ascii-security enabled .. without that you get 70.0.3538.110-1~deb9u118:23
gnarfacebeowulf is in beta and seems usable from what i can tell, so that's an option too if you're brave18:24
HyperTableswell ubuntu has 79.0.3945.79-0ubuntu0.19.10.2 in eoan-updates18:25
HyperTablesbut then ubuntu was always about shipping fresher software18:26
TwistedFateHyperTables: current version is 83?19:14
TwistedFatei honestly wouldn't use a browser if it was so outdated19:14
TwistedFateHyperTables: also, you might like this https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium19:16
Jjp137HyperTables, since you're on ascii, chromium doesn't get any more updates because in Debian, they discontinued chromium security support for stretch (source: https://www.debian.org/security/2020/dsa-4654)19:33
Jjp137so you can either upgrade to beowulf or if you need to stay on ascii, use firefox-esr instead19:33
tomI can't do any remote SSH wireshark captures in beowulf21:27
Guest8617it says connection refused, but I can SSH into the hosts on the same port just fine21:27
Guest8617is this something to do with the new apparmor stuff?21:29
Guest8617where wireshark isn't allowed to make SSH connections now21:29
bsd4meI'm running Linux refracta 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux21:35
bsd4me and curious about upgrading the system and kernel. Do I uncomment /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list?21:35
bsd4meor just use apt to install linux-image?21:36
Guest8617bsd4me, refracta I don't think is tested21:38
Guest8617only Debian21:38
Guest8617your welcome to try but make backups21:38
bsd4meIt has beowulf :)21:38
bsd4meI believe it's a special iso by fsmithred21:40
fsmithredis that the one with openbox or xfce?21:42
bsd4mexfce21:44
bsd4merefracta10-beta_xfce_amd64-20191230_2319.iso21:45
fsmithredand you upgraded the kernel?21:45
fsmithredsorry, I was on the phone and talking to you at the same time21:46
bsd4meno. Using 5.3.0.bp021:46
fsmithredyou don't need /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list21:46
bsd4meok21:46
fsmithreddelete that file so you don't get confused21:46
bsd4meso just leave kernel at 5.3?21:46
fsmithredand thanks for pointing it out. I forgot it was there.21:46
bsd4meok, will delete it :)21:46
_abc_I am lost in aptitude on ascii again. This is an aptitude question. I have several (dozen) libreoffice related packages installed, I want to upgrade all of them. Whenever I try to select one of them for upgrade, scrolling down to the latest version in it and + I get umpteen idiotic dependencies. It's like herding cats. Which package is the "top" of the tree in the libreoffice herd?21:47
bsd4medeleted devuan.list21:47
fsmithred:)21:48
bsd4meOtherwise, really enjoying refracta. Congrats!21:48
fsmithredcool. I actually spent some time working on that yesterday.21:49
fsmithredI hope to update the isos soon.21:49
bsd4meI honestly can't really think of any disappointments with it since installing and using :)21:50
fsmithredwell, I noticed that I forgot to install mpv21:50
fsmithredand a couple other things, just minor stuff21:50
bsd4mewow, I never noticed that one.21:50
fsmithredI think mplayer is installed21:51
bsd4meI normally use mplayer quite a bit, but I've been happy with vlc so far.21:51
bsd4memplayer is installed21:52
fsmithredthey all work pretty well these days21:52
fsmithredis xarchiver installed?21:52
bsd4meyes21:52
fsmithredoh, good21:53
bsd4meyou made a pretty good iso and the system works very well on this lenovo ideapad21:54
bsd4meideapad 320-15ast21:54
_abc_Is this a new release fsmithred ?21:55
bsd4mebrb21:55
fsmithredno, it's a beowulf beta I made Dec. 3021:56
fsmithredbeta2 or rc coming soon21:56
_abc_Either that or the virus. Half kidding. Brb.21:56
fsmithredI in massachusetts, so it's all around me.21:59
fsmithredI can brag that Refracta is the desktop distribution of choice in the dyne.org office.22:00
Guest8617it says connection refused, but I can SSH into the hosts on the same port just fine22:00
Guest8617I can't do any remote SSH wireshark captures in beowulf22:00
Guest8617wait, what is the difference between Devuan and Refracta22:03
fsmithredRefracta is a devuan re-spin, a derivative distribution22:03
fsmithredused to be a re-spin of debian until jessie.22:03
Guest8617what is different22:03
Guest8617Devuan is a general purpose os22:04
Guest8617and from what I'm reading so is refracta22:04
fsmithredit's a live iso with xfce installed mostly without metapackages...22:04
fsmithredit has a different set of apps from the default devuan install, a little lighter weight22:04
fsmithredand it has tools to respin your own installable live-iso22:05
fsmithredwith refracta you get to install exaclty what's on the live-cd22:05
fsmithredit doesn't include the traditional debian-installer22:05
Guest8617fsmithred, would it be against the license of Devuan at all to create a paid respin of Devuan designed for business workstations with additional software not part of Devuan?22:06
fsmithredthere are a few other devuan derivatives that use the same tools for remastering, and there are a few that include debian-installer22:06
fsmithredit's not a violation to sell disks of gpl-licenced software22:07
fsmithredif you mix free with non-free, you probably need to talk to a lawyer22:07
bsd4meI forget now the problem, but refracta solved some problem that I had trying to install devuan. Maybe kernel related... I forget, but refracta installed so I use it :)22:10
stovepipefsmithred: it was just the missing ati firmware package22:50
stovepipei noticed synergy is gone22:51
Guest8617How do I use gpg-agent to authenticate wireshark for SSH remote capture?22:51
Guest8617it keeps failing to auth me when ssh works just fine because I'm using gpg-agent for ssh authentication with my PGP identity instead of ssh-agent22:51
stovepipebut 1.11.1 built fine22:51
masonstovepipe: synergy has an interesting licensing history that probably matters here22:53
stovepipeheh yeah22:53
_abc_Oh checking out dyne.org it is a Dutch .org23:29
_abc_This would be a good start for a text entry style based biometric system I think. https://www.dyne.org/software/tbt/23:34
_abc_As in, it's not the password that matters, but how you type it!23:35
qiho/23:57

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