libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-06-04

golinuxkingsley__: Please take those non-support questions to #debianfork00:01
g4570nA First Look At Devuan 3.0 "Beowulf" by DistroTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrIgyZhtUk00:19
EHeMNow playing with "beowulf"...00:38
EHeMSomehow the umask is being ignored?!00:39
fsmithredwhat umask?00:40
EHeMThere is more than one?  `umask` => 0022, `touch foo ; ls -l foo` => "-rw-rw-rw-"00:42
gnarfaceyou using a graphical login?  lightdm doesn't execute your bash profile by default00:44
gnarfacesee if it behaves differently when connecting via ssh00:44
EHeMgnarface: That was directly at a shell (bash in fact), output of `umask` is "0022\n" (which is expected), yet the file was created 0666; test directory got 0777.00:45
gnarfacehmmm00:46
EHeMgnarface: The one potential quirk is this is on NFS.00:46
DonkeyHoteilol00:46
gnarfaceheh00:46
gnarfaceoh00:46
EHeMAnd looking, that does appear to be an issue.00:47
gnarfaceEHeM: probably it's the NFS setup then, i can't reproduce the bug just on the local filesystem00:47
EHeMgnarface: The NFS server just recently got updated too, but file modes are calculated on the client.00:48
gnarfaceNFS server is also beowulf?00:49
EHeMYes, updated about 24 hours after client.00:49
gnarfaceEHeM: it couldn't have switched from nfs3 to nfs4, could it have?00:53
EHeMShouldn't, since it was already on NFSv4 (NFSv1-NFSv3 were all disabled).00:54
gnarfaceoh00:56
gnarfacei wonder if it could have still been some change to some default kernel option though00:57
rrqis it some fat file system?00:58
gnarfacerrq: that would explain why it's not working now but not why it used to work before00:59
rrqtrue01:00
EHeMI've also noticed setting of $PATH via /etc/login.defs appears to have broken too.01:00
gnarfacenow that sounds familiar, i think someone else had an issue with a change to login.defs handling recently01:01
fsmithredI think some nfs options changed from ascii to beowulf01:01
EHeMrrq: Who is stupid enough to use Fully Awful Trash anywhere where other options are available.01:01
rrq:)01:01
rrqI apologise!01:01
fsmithredeasy fix for root path is put 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' in /etc/default/su01:02
fsmithredyou can put that in login.defs instead, but then you get a warning when you log in01:03
nemo*sigh*01:12
nemoamdgpu-pro crashes beowulf xserver01:13
nemoreason for it might be the ABI incompatibility01:13
nemo24 in xserver 1.20 and 23 (1.19) in amdgpu-pro01:13
nemoso, thought I'd see if xserver could be downgraded from 1.20 to 1.1901:13
nemonoooope, I should know better than to pull on a big thread like that in gentoo01:13
nemowell, I should say, it kinda works, if I don't mind losing the task-desktop which depends on tasksel which if I chose to downgrade clobbers important stuff like ssh01:15
nemohmmm01:15
EHeMThings seem to suggest the umask issue showed up when the server was updated, I've got a VM lying around which was pre-beowulf and never observed any such issue.01:16
nemomaybe those tasks aren't so important 😉01:16
nemodowngrading to ascii xorg does seem to allow X to start01:16
nemothat seems to have done it!01:17
nemowoo01:17
nemono idea what task-desktop and task-mate-desktop do, but stuff seems to startup sooooo01:23
fsmithredthose are metapackages that pull in lots of packages that actually do stuff01:24
fsmithredso you can get a complete desktop by installing three packages01:25
fsmithredbut it can make it difficult to remove parts of that whole01:25
EHeMfsmithred: Is there any database library implementation those don't manage to pull in?01:29
fsmithrednot sure what you're asking01:29
EHeMI'm commenting that it is nearly impossible to avoid installing MySQL, PostgresSQL and MariaDB with a "desktop" installation.  So many packages depend on them due to /sometimes/ wanting the functionality they're hard to avoid.01:31
fsmithredmaybe some libs get installed, but the actual db programs don't come in by default01:32
fsmithredxsane pulls in mysql-common here01:33
fsmithredlots of people do a minimal install to start and then add what they want01:33
fsmithredand using --no-install-recommends helps reduce bloat01:34
gnarfaceEHeM: check into SQLite01:42
gnarface(the only one without a boat load of dependencies)01:42
specingthat sounds weird01:49
specingshouldn't those apps only install the db connector clients?01:49
gnarfacespecing: i dunno, maybe, but something in the tangled mess of gnome dependences you get when you install gnome or any gnome tool comes with a full-blown copy of mysql01:56
gnarfacespecing: (which as far as i can tell is only not sqlite due to lack of basic discipline)01:57
gnarfacei think there might be an issue with the mesa-va-drivers:amd64 package in beowulf.  it doesn't seem installable, anyone else having that issue?02:01
gnarfacethat's the only package conflict i couldn't resolve02:02
gnarfacebut if i just remove va-driver-all:amd64 it stops complaining (i don't think it worked for me anyway on this card with nouveau, so it's no big deal, but this might be impacting others...)02:02
gnarfacethat's 3 ascii->beowulf upgrades now, all almost without a hitch02:13
gnarface(though to be fair, the hitch on the ARM one was expected and not a Devuan problem)02:15
EHeMInstalling the libraries still means something with security updates.02:39
EHeMThe project after removing systemd should be trying to turn "requires" dependancies into "recommends" dependancies; make use of libtool and start dlopen()ing libraries instead of directly linking to them.02:42
EHeMAlso need to shoot whomever involved with fuse decided they needed to add a "nonempty" option.04:08
EHeMThat is unusual, which is a surprise and surprises are a Bad Thing(tm).04:08
EHeMFavored approach for random option mount points is `ln -s /dev/null /mnt/mntpt/Volume\ Not\ Mounted` which works with everything except the stupid fuse libraries.04:10
EHeM"cachefilesd" is looking suspiciously problematic for the umask issue.04:17
EHeMHmm, perhaps not...04:22
Guest26850Hello, how can I install a gtk2 version of Thunar in beowulf?04:54
Guest26850also various xfce4 utilities04:54
Guest26850these are the programs i notice http://dpaste.com/3ZKN7KR04:58
Guest26850i'm not concerned with userspace software like atril, parole, etc i can replace those04:58
Guest26850but thunar and the xfce utils I don't know how to install gtk2 versions of04:58
* frabbit reminds fsmithred to try to reproduce that deborphan thing05:08
gnarfaceGuest26850: i think it would require rebuilding the packages05:08
gnarfaceGuest26850: package building basics haven't deviated from the Debian documentation05:10
Guest26850is there a way to build forwardports instead of backports?05:12
Guest26850it doesn't look like thunar 1.8 supports gtk2 but thunar 1.6 does05:12
gnarfacethe process shouldn't be fundamentally different, you'd just need a copy of the older source code and the patience and knowledge to patch out any API compatibilities05:13
gnarfacei think you might be able to get older source code versions from the debian snapshots repos, but i'm not sure about that05:13
Guest26850ok05:15
Guest26850what do you mean by API compatibilities05:15
gnarfacewell, you might actually have to update the source code05:15
gnarfacei can't tell you specifics05:15
Guest26850ok05:15
gnarfaceyou might get lucky though05:15
Guest26850nothing i haven't done for other distros05:15
Guest26850gnarface, if that is the case there are a bunch of other things i really do not like about thunar's defaults05:16
Guest26850I was thinking about just forking it since I don;t see the XFCE team heading in the right direction with it05:16
Guest26850where is the documentation for submitting a new package for maintainership in devuan if I go down that route?05:17
golinuxGuest26850: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/wip/new-packaging-guide/maintainers05:27
Guest26850thank you05:28
golinuxPlease understand that Devuan's singular purpose is to provide Debian without systemd.05:29
golinuxHowever there are many contributions available in our repos that are unofficial05:31
golinuxand available to users.05:31
golinuxI might even be suggested that you first see if such changes might be accepted upstream as an alternative.05:33
golinuxI > It05:34
golinuxWhy?  The less we are committed to maintain the better.05:34
frabbitGuest26850: if youre a looking for a lightweight system then using a "desktop manager enviroment what ever it calls itself" is the wrong direction imho...05:50
frabbitgolinux: i wonder if it wouldnt even be better to maybe dropt some software taht has just eyecandys. i mean why not offer a minimal beginner guish something to only?05:51
frabbit*drop05:51
frabbitmore programs = more packages = more work...05:52
frabbithm.. surf2 doesnt use the options i gave it...07:44
frabbiti runned: "surf2 --aBgkmsT" but it starts with "AcgDISVMfT"07:45
frabbit*"surf2 -aBgkmsT"07:46
frabbitit also complains about D-Bus library but that isnt the issue here i guess? other programs do too and i dont have problems with them07:47
frabbitok some thing are already default as it seems, so it isnt necessary to specify -B to enable a scrollbar07:54
frabbit*thing07:54
frabbit*things07:54
frabbitah i see i need to run "-a a" for denying all cookies07:59
frabbitand that has broke the rest of the options too (but i got no notice... hm ok)08:00
WonkaErr:11 http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable Release08:34
Wonka  404  Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]08:34
frabbitWonka: do have that in your source.list?08:39
frabbithttp://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/stable/Release08:40
xrogaan> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main non-free contrib08:47
frabbitxrogaan: yeah thats why i asked if that is in Wonkas source.list, caused it looks more like a url with some missing /08:49
humpelstilzchen[Gratulations..just it would have been nice to to have this error: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=93156609:00
frabbitThe headline here is wrong: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/full-disk-encryption.html - it si not describing FDE (Full disk encryption) cause the /boot partion isnt encrypted in that tutorial...09:04
frabbitfde is only possible on a computer with libreboot or if you swap the /boot partition out to some external device09:05
frabbit*sigh* ok i was hoping it would not happen, but now the fun begins...09:18
frabbiti installed the minimal xfcd as discribed on documenation: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/minimal-xfce-install.html09:19
frabbitin that process dpkg gaves output that libsystemd0 will be removed09:19
frabbitbut also that this package is needed by xser-xorg-core and some others09:20
frabbitbut these packages now are still there09:20
frabbitalso i cant run startx successfully as non-root as it is written in the release notes09:21
frabbitoh wait eloginis needed09:21
frabbit*elogind09:22
* frabbit tries that09:22
Wonkafrabbit: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable main09:23
Wonkafrabbit: that's the entry in sources.list09:23
WonkaI guess it's an out-of-sync mirror maybe?09:24
frabbitWonka: ok so so as xrogaan wrote09:26
frabbit*so do09:26
frabbit08:44 < xrogaan> > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main09:26
frabbitalways use the version name not stable testing etc. ive had the same problem in the past ;)09:27
frabbitok with elogind startx as non root user works09:28
frabbitmaybe that removing of libsystemd0 is something wanted? but if so why it comes with installation?09:28
frabbitoh! leafpad is gone =o https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=leafpad09:34
frabbitan themes for xfwm4 too: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=xfwm4-themes09:34
frabbitwas it merged to xfwm4 package?09:35
frabbitlol i gave /var 1GB at partitioning and now that i run my beginner_install_script.sh apt says theres not enough space on my /var xD09:41
frabbitive never had this space problme on my own system before09:41
frabbit*problem09:41
frabbitman.. mat-gui is gone too in buster D= thats really bad10:20
Wonkaok, with "apt update", I need to confirm the suite updates for beowulf from testing to stable. aptitude simply fails. is there already a bug against that?10:21
xrogaanit's not a bug11:17
xrogaanif it is, it's on debian's side11:18
humpelstilzchen[Wonka: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931566 aka Acquire::AllowReleaseInfoChange "true"; somewhere in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d11:24
Wonkahumpelstilzchen[: but I don't want to simply allow it, I want aptitude to ask me if I'll allow it, like "apt update" does.11:31
fsmithredfrabbit, you can do full disk encryption with the live isos.11:51
fsmithredCheck box for encryption and don't use a separate partition for /boot.11:52
fsmithreddeborphan -k keep-orphans11:57
fsmithredguess next step is to alias the command to include that option11:57
fsmithredfrabbit, ^^^11:57
robin_Guys, if i have a TP Link Usb Wifi adapter how can i "install it "properly"? If im at for example debian it comes up automaticly in networkmanager if i plug it in12:34
robin_if i plug it in here nothing happens : /12:34
fsmithreddmesg |tail12:35
robin_it's like a "driver free" usb wifi ( should be )12:35
fsmithredip a12:35
fsmithredthen make sure wicd has that interface set as the default wireless12:36
fsmithreddon't post command output here - bot will bounce you12:36
robin_so i just put dmesg |tail and my ip adresse and it should be good to go you mean?12:38
fsmithredno12:43
fsmithredput that in a terminal right after you plug in the dongle and you will see if it is recognized12:44
fsmithred'ip a' will list network interfaces, so you can get the name12:44
fsmithredwhich is probably something like wxl-<mac address>12:44
fsmithredthen you can put that interface name in wicd preferences12:45
fsmithredand Refresh wicd. It should then see wireless signals.12:45
robin_cant find it with dmesh but with lsusb i find it12:49
ShorTiethere is also 'ls /sys/class/net' to see if it is there and it's name12:50
fsmithreddoes 'ip a' show it?12:51
robin_think i maybe found it12:52
robin_but where should i put it in refernce in wicd ? : P12:52
fsmithredthe interface name?12:53
fsmithredmake wicd window bigger, and you'll see Preferences in upper right12:53
fsmithredput interface name in the box for default wireless12:53
fsmithredthen Refresh wicd12:54
frabbitWonka: aptitude is a frontend for a frontend.. i avoid such..."solutions". just use apt only ;)14:08
fsmithredfrabbit, did you see my deborphan notes?14:08
frabbitfsmithred: fde with live iso: how does that work? grub must be somewhere and if it is on the encrypted disk... who or better what is asking for the decryption of the /boot partition? with libreboot there comes a minmal grub with that does this job.14:10
frabbitfsmithred: deborphan: yes14:10
fsmithredfde?14:10
frabbitwill have a look at it later14:10
frabbitfull disk encryption14:10
fsmithredoh14:10
fsmithredit works because the live installer puts the appropriate line in /etc/default/grub14:11
fsmithrednothing asks for decryption of the /boot partition because there is no /boot partition14:11
fsmithredthe /boot directory is part of the root partition14:11
frabbitdoesnt mater14:11
frabbit-> /boot is neede to boot the system14:12
frabbit*needed14:12
fsmithredgrub is in mbr if it's bios boot, in efi partition if it's uefi14:12
frabbitif it is on a encrypted space u need to decrypt that space first...14:12
fsmithredyes, of course there is a boot directory with the usual components14:12
fsmithredyes, and grub will ask for the passphrase14:12
fsmithredthen it will show you a grub menu14:13
frabbitgrub is in bios? o_014:13
fsmithredstart to load kernel14:13
fsmithredand then ask for the passphrase14:13
fsmithredgrub is in mbr and knows how to decrypt the partition14:13
frabbitbut mbr is on the hdd/ssd14:14
fsmithredomg14:14
fsmithredyes14:14
frabbitso?14:14
fsmithredthat does not disqualify it for full disk encryption14:14
frabbitthat hdd/ssd is encrypted...14:15
fsmithredmbr is not in any of the partitions14:15
frabbitoh!14:15
frabbiti didnt know that14:15
specingfrabbit: grub is in the 2047 sectors after MBR but before any partitions14:15
specing(1MB)14:15
fsmithredfirst part of the disk is for boot code and the partition table14:15
frabbiti mean i know that there isnt any /mbr or something but i always thought it is somewhere on the installation...14:15
fsmithredadvantage of fde is that kernel and initrd are protected14:16
frabbityes14:17
fsmithredI don't like it because it's slow to boot14:17
frabbitthats why i use it14:17
frabbitspecing: thx ;)14:17
fsmithredfor security, I'd rather put /boot on a usb stick14:17
fsmithredwhich is less convenient14:17
frabbitfsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times14:17
frabbitfsmithred: until u lost it xD14:17
frabbit"damn where was that stick again...?"14:18
fsmithredyeah, security requires some work14:18
frabbitfsmithred: #debianfork becuase thats gettin ot14:18
specingfsmithred: it's slow because grub's pbkdf is slow14:19
specingfsmithred: reduce the number of iterations and it'll boot faster14:19
specing> frabbit | fsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times14:19
frabbitspecing: i really have no problmes with boot speed since i have libreboot its so fu***** fast14:19
specingsomeone could code up an interface through which grub could pass along the key14:20
fsmithredcan't put the key in the root partition? I haven't tried that.14:21
specingfsmithred: I guess one way would be for GRUB to generate an unencrypted LUKS header on the fly and pass it as additional initrd to the kernel14:21
fsmithredI would expect it to work if you have the key listed in crypttab14:21
specingbut someone has to code that14:21
fsmithredyou would still need to put password in one time14:22
fsmithredmy way14:22
fsmithredfor grub to pass the key, you need a removable key14:22
specingwhy14:25
frabbitgcompris in beowulf is now unplayable on an old laptop... =( that will make someone really sad...14:26
frabbitalso why mat2 doesnt contain a gui anymore?14:26
fsmithredhow does grub know who is booting the computer?14:27
fsmithredor maybe you are proposing using password once instead of twice14:30
frabbitcan i use an odler version of gcompris in beowulf without causing any troubles?14:34
frabbit*older14:34
fsmithredno idea14:34
frabbiti can download older version here: https://gcompris.net/download/qt/linux/14:35
fsmithredso try it14:36
frabbiti dont wnat to try to install it with apt from ascii...14:36
fsmithredno14:36
frabbitfsmithred: yeah14:36
fsmithreddpkg -i14:36
frabbityes14:36
frabbitor maybe i can do it like i run the tbb or newest ff14:36
frabbitlets see...14:37
frabbithmm other versions numbering here... in ascii it says it is 15.10-114:37
frabbitbut upstream newest version is 0.97....14:38
frabbit*sigh*14:38
* frabbit needs to figure out now what version 15.10-1 is...14:38
fsmithredI can't check versions right now14:39
frabbitfsmithred:  u dont need to ;)14:40
frabbithuh? whats that channelmode?14:43
frabbitok 0.80 is already that heavy thing.. o_014:54
Wonkafrabbit: well, aptitude makes complex situations much easier... like, when you're living on the edge of unstable, and there's packages you cannot update yet because the new dependencies are not there yet...15:06
frabbitWonka: ok is that so? i never lived that way =)15:08
frabbitim living in the past15:08
frabbitwhere gcompris was still playable 4 example...15:08
frabbitfrom wich year was the gcompris version in ascii? o_0 ive tried out one here from 2015 and that has already the new interface that kills my gpu...15:21
frabbitwait! there are two versions one with qt and one with gtk and beowulf has the qt version that sucks15:24
frabbiti think that this is it but i cant be 100% sure...15:24
XelraaIdk about how good idea that 4.19 kernel for beuwulf was16:50
Xelraamy vmware workstation 15 segfaulting the hell out itself16:50
Xelraawhen restoring saving shutting down vms16:50
Xelraaexact same core i7 hardware just having a debian 9 + devuan 3 multiboot16:51
Xelraamy debian is stretch 9.12 with kernel 4.9.0-11 and don't have any problems like this16:51
Mate_czHello, sorry for the noob question - I have a devuan 1.0 on arm machine. Does anybody knows the easy way to expand sd card to full size (from 2GB to 16GB)? gparted is not included. Can creat wpa_supplicant to connext to wifi. Theres no gui in the distro.. thanks in advance17:29
frabbitMate_cz: ask here: #devuan-arm17:37
specingMate_cz: fdisk, t option in menu17:38
fsmithredMate_cz, resize2fs?17:38
specingerr d then n17:38
Mate_czfrabbit: nobodys on the channel :)17:39
fsmithreddelete and new?17:39
specingyes17:39
Mate_czspecing: thx, will try17:39
fsmithredyou don't want to keep jessie?17:39
specingfsmithred: it doesen't delete data, just the partition info17:39
specingit'll work fine as long as the new partition has the same number and starts at the same sector17:40
fsmithredwow, ok17:40
fsmithredsounds too much like the time I accidentally wiped my partition table17:41
specingI never loooked into it, but filesystems probably have some header at the start17:42
specingso you can trivially reconstruct the table17:42
fsmithredyeah, I did that17:42
fsmithredit worked ok for the primary partition, but not for the extended17:42
specingI don't know why these things are still used when LVM exists17:43
specingmost distros just have dumb defaults in their partitioners17:43
specingI believe Devuan is no exception17:43
fsmithredwe use debian-installer17:44
fsmithredand for the live isos, refractainstaller, which absolutely does not have dumb defaults for partitioning17:44
specingI remember fighting the installer to install to btrfs17:44
fsmithredbecause it doesn't partition anything for you17:44
frabbitMate_cz: oh! =o17:45
specingand I had to do the same recently in Fedora17:45
specingthey have 3 partitioners and none can do it17:45
fsmithreddid we work on btrfs together, or am I thinking of someone else?17:45
frabbitMate_cz: wait no there are 23 persons!17:45
specingfsmithred: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=217517:46
frabbitMate_cz: 17:43 -alis(alis@services.)- #devuan-arm                                         23 :Devuan on ARM boards :: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk :: https://devuan.org :: this is a low-traffic channel mainly for me to give help more easily and to track bugs (parazyd)17:46
Mate_czfrabbit: my bad - one extra character used :)17:46
Mate_czthx17:46
frabbit## ?17:46
frabbit=)17:47
Mate_czyeah17:47
frabbitxD i know that17:47
fsmithredspecing, yeah, that one. Thanks. I think I just deleted that btrfs VM recently.17:48
specingfsmithred: I wish Devuan had a Kickstart system like Fedora18:06
specingthat speeds things up tremendously18:06
fsmithredwhat's it do?18:06
specinghttps://framagit.org/specing//fedora18:06
specingfsmithred: it pre-configures the installer18:06
fsmithreddebian-installer has preseed18:08
fsmithrednon-interactive install with pre-set choices18:08
nemo19:23 < nemo> no idea what task-desktop and task-mate-desktop do, but stuff seems to startup sooooo18:10
nemo19:24 < fsmithred> those are metapackages that pull in lots of packages that actually do stuff18:10
nemocontinuing this... any particular reason why those meta packages have such strict dependencies?18:10
nemoinstead of their subs?18:10
nemobut I guess that explains why removing them didn't break anything18:11
nemo(that is, I needed to downgrade xorg server, and it's surprising to me that meta packages to "install a desktop" would require xorg 1.20 instead of 1.1918:11
nemo)18:11
nemomaybe it's convenient to do, but kinda sucks in this sort of forced situation18:11
fsmithredI would expect forced versions in dependencies to be there for a reason, but that might not be a good assumption.18:12
nemofsmithred: welp. system hasn't broken yet 😃18:13
nemofsmithred: and I'm actually able to do gl acceleration, so that's good18:13
fsmithredcool18:15
nemocan share my pin if anyone is in same situation with a new AMD card18:15
nemoI did see a lot of bug reports online. on ubuntu and such, with people running into same problem18:15
nemocuriously they were trying all kinds of odd random fixes18:16
fsmithredmight be worth posting on forum - it'll turn up on a search18:16
nemoinstead of, oh, addressing the ABI problem18:16
nemoif your amdgpu driver is video ABI 23 and your server is video abi 24, that cannot be good18:16
nemoxorg only bumps abi if there are breaking changes18:16
nemofsmithred: that means making a forum account though 😝18:16
nemohmmm maybe I made one?18:16
nemowill have to check logins when I'm off the work computer18:17
fsmithredI thought you had one18:18
nemoone funny thing about the amd driver is it checks for ubuntu, mint or debian before saying that you are on an unsupported deb based distro18:19
nemo|devuan was trivial to add ofc18:19
nemobut, it does NOT check version18:19
nemothe last 3 ubuntu releases use xorg 1.2018:19
fsmithredmaybe they figured they didn't need to check version because the deps control that?18:20
nemofsmithred: possible but then they screwed that up too. since their xorg driver does not have a 1.20 version, or fails to check for it18:20
nemoand they released it 2020-04-1718:20
nemoanyway. last 3 ubuntu releases probably have broken video with amdgpu-pro18:20
fsmithredno forum account18:21
fsmithredyou on dng mailing list?18:21
nemodurn18:21
nemoprobably not18:21
fsmithreddevuan-dev mailing list?18:22
nemocertainly not ☺18:22
fsmithredpastebin it and I'll post it18:22
nemook.18:22
nemoit has the gotcha that it removed those tasks18:22
fsmithredif you don't want to join any of those18:22
nemoand I had to accept it18:22
nemobut... it did not seem to screw anything up enormously beyond that18:22
fsmithredmention that18:22
nemooh and naturally the tasks being removed caused devuan to think I didn't need libreoffice anymore, but was trivial to explicitly install to get autoremove off my case18:23
nemobut IMO the tasks should have been more flexible18:23
nemook. will write this allll up18:23
fsmithredtasks and flexible don't go in same sentence.18:24
nemofsmithred: welll. you said it was a meta. so you'd *think* like a lot of metas it wouldn't have very explicit of versions. I thought that was normally for the stuff under it18:24
nemobut maybe I don't understand debs very well18:25
fsmithredwhat you say makes sense to me. I don't know why it's that way.18:25
nemofsmithred: https://m8y.org/tmp/amdgpu.html18:39
nemohow's that18:39
fsmithrednemo, thanks. I'll post it now and read it later. Might add some formatting.18:41
nemofsmithred: I added a sentence noting this almost certainly impacts ubuntu/debian/mint too18:41
nemojust so people don't consider it a devuan problem 😝18:42
fsmithredcool18:42
tediousDoes the install you get from the devuan live dvd turn out the same as if you used the normal installer?20:03
tediousOr do you end up with a live system running from your hard disk instead of a dvd?20:04
golinux_tedious: It is a normal devuan install20:29
nemofsmithred: hm. feedback on forum says that I can do a manual install from upstream. that's good to know20:35
nemofsmithred: and yeah, I was pretty darn sure debian hadn't updated firmware.20:35
nemobut I didn't see any hint of it in other distros either, and since the card had had firmware patches just a couple of months ago...20:36
nemoI do appreciate someone telling me how to do it though20:36
nemowill try it later20:36
nemohmmm20:36
fsmithredcool. Write it and I'll post it with the other fix. Then people can have a choice.20:37
nemofsmithred: ugh. requires kernel change too20:37
nemofsmithred: well he wrote it up20:37
nemoI don't know if I want to change my kernel though20:37
fsmithredbackports kernel is 5.5 or 5.620:37
nemooh. ok. that makes me feel a bit better20:37
fsmithredsome people are using it already for new hardware20:37
nemoif it is backports kernel...20:37
nemofsmithred: I'll try his method either tonight or tomorrow night. major deploys at work will have me working late20:38
fsmithredyeah, beowulf-backports (=buster-backports)20:38
fsmithredoh boy, I just made a chimaera live-iso. Now I get to see if it boots.20:38
nemobut yeah, my usual instinct when the FOSS stuff completely fails to detect hardware even after attempting backport of firmware is to try the closed source20:38
nemoand I did check for firmware backports and there was none in devuan with a recent enough date even in the bleeding edge stuff20:39
fsmithredoh, my first thought is to try a newer kernel20:39
nemofsmithred: well yeah.20:39
nemofsmithred: but that along WITH the necessary amd fairy dust 😝20:39
nemofsmithred: and since you guys didn't have a fairy dust package20:39
nemoI had no idea how to go about it myself20:39
nemoseems like it might not be too hard.20:39
fsmithrednew is always tricky with debian20:39
fsmithredfirmware-amd-graphics isn't the right dust?20:40
nemono. too old20:40
nemoeven in backports20:40
fsmithredyeah, old is usually a feature20:40
nemohe's recommending manual install, which I'm fine with if it isn't too hard20:40
nemofsmithred: for sure20:40
nemofsmithred: it's just nice to be able to selectively override20:40
nemoand unfortunately debian sometimes lacks some flexibility there. ESPECIALLY with games20:40
nemoI understand stability for core system stuff, but less so for games. I wish there was an additional category20:41
nemofun-backports or something20:41
nemoHedgewars has had soooo much trouble with debian over the years20:41
nemohttp://hedgewars.org/node/913220:41
EHeMUpon further experimentation it now appears the NFS issue with modes requires *both* server and client to be on kernel 4.19; server on 4.9, client on 4.19 works; server on 4.19, client on 4.9 works.20:54
EHeMI've seen some hints pointing towards NFSv4 being part of the problem (v2 and v3 are disabled on this server).20:55
fsmithredEHeM, I have server on 4.19 and client on 4.9 and I have some problems with not being able to mount the share without restarting nfs-kernel-server20:56
* enyc meows21:08
plasma41The channel topic should be updated to mention the Beowulf release. Who has the op privileges to do that?21:15
fsmithredparazyd ^^^21:17
fsmithredprobably someone else, too21:17
fsmithreddefinitely someone else, too21:19
fsmithrednow what?21:19
fsmithredhelp21:20
fsmithredsomeone look at the topic and tell me if I did it right21:24
stiltrlgtm21:24
fsmithredthanks21:25
plasma41Looks right to me, though do we need to mention the conference in the topic still?21:25
fsmithrednot sure what's there21:26
ShorTieConference (2019) , does sound a little old21:28
fsmithredI'll put it on the pad21:29
parazydfsmithred: Did you solve it?21:58
fsmithredyes21:58
parazydcool :)21:58
fsmithredwe just need to decide...21:58
fsmithredkeep conference link or not?21:58
parazydIMHO, no need. Since it's probably linked somewhere on the website.21:58
golinuxNot needed one year out imo21:58
fsmithredalso, I updated live-sdk blends couple days ago21:58
parazydIf there's a new conference, then add it :)21:58
fsmithredyeah, ok. I'll do it now.21:59
fsmithredand btw, chimaera live-iso works. (made with refractasnapshot)21:59
parazydfsmithred: ok @ blends. If there's things you want me to push/review, best is to just send me a message in private21:59
parazydI'll probably reply :p21:59
fsmithredok22:00
enyci'd like to see quide/difference to those who have had a beuwolf-beta a long time  vs  'clean install', things likely to be wrong, and so-on22:27
enycI've experienced wierdness with gui processes eating 100% cpu until killed and restarted, and intermittency with auto mounting usb drevs,  these sorts of bugginess things22:28
fsmithredcomb through forum posts from the last few months and create such a guide22:28
fsmithredhaven't see that myself22:28
fsmithredI've heard it mentioned here, but not sure if that was you22:29
fsmithredin the past week, I guess22:29
Guest5406hi22:44
glat-agent643Hello. I am selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today!22:44
Guest5406anybody knows about a devuan/debian derivative using runit as init system?22:50
golinuxDevuan should have runit22:51
Guest5406i only heard about void linux and artix22:51
golinuxin the point release iirc22:51
Guest5406hi golinux22:51
golinuxIt's mentioned in the release announcement22:51
golinuxHi aitor!22:51
golinuxhttps://devuan.org/os/announce/beowulf-stable-announce-06012022:52
Guest5406thanks, golinux22:52
Guest5406?22:53
Guest5406it's not /sbin/init, but /sbin/runit-init22:54
MinceRglat-agent643: someone has outbid you, at $022:54
glat-agent643How much licenses do you have?22:54
Guest5406i've been working on the configuration of runit under gnuinos during these days22:55
stiltrGuest5406: Presumably apt install runit22:55
Guest5406and i have an image working right now22:56
Guest5406stiltr: some services must be stablished at /etc/sv22:57
Guest5406*established22:57
Guest5406and symlinks to them at /etc/runit/runsvdir22:58
stiltrI've got no idea. Sorry.22:59
glat-agent643I am still selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today!22:59
Guest5406i removed sysvinit, sysvinit-core and also a sysvint-utils (a critical package), and everything is working fine so far23:00
se7enIs ASCII considered old-stable yet23:31
se7enShould I upgrade to buster23:31
stiltrBeowulf is stable now.23:33
tuxd3vse7en, you mean Beowulf :)23:33
se7enyes23:36
se7enI don't have enough memory in /var/cache/apt/archives23:44
se7enIs there a way to change the location of downloaded pacages23:44
se7enAfter this operation, 2,497 MB of additional disk space will be used.23:45
se7enE: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.23:45
se7enheh23:45
tuxd3v:D23:45
fsmithreddon't you want to clean out the old packages?23:45
fsmithredcopy /var/cache/apt/archives to a bigger partition and then make a symlink23:46
fsmithredapt-get autoclean will get rid of obsolete packages, apg-get clean will get rid of all of them.23:47
se7enThere is nothing in that folder23:49
fsmithredwhat's filling /var?23:51
fsmithredrenegade logs?23:52
se7enThere doiesn't appear to be much at all23:53
fsmithreddu -sh23:53
fsmithredno23:54
fsmithreddf -h23:54
fsmithredsee how full it is first23:54
se7enI'm running it with the symlink so it might be an invalid statistic23:54
se7enbut23:54
se7en/dev/mapper/lappy--vg-var  ext4      2.7G 1023M  1.6G  40% /var23:54
fsmithredor run someting like gdmap to get a graphical representation23:54
fsmithredoh23:55
fsmithredmake it bigger23:55
fsmithredfor extra credit, do it while it's mounted and running23:55
se7enIt's not nessesarily wise to just make partitions bigger all the time23:55
se7enEspecially when there is no defragmention service for ext423:56
fsmithredsweat bullets23:56
fsmithredyou can add a volume to it, but then that has other issues23:56
EHeMMy strategy is to attach a large shared filesystem to the VM, then do an overlay mount of /var/cache/apt/archives (saves bandwidth too!).23:56
se7enWhy is this upgrade process installing packages I deliberatly removed from my system23:57
se7enIncluding firefox-est23:57
se7enesr23:57
fsmithredtask-desktop and task-whatever-desktop?23:57
se7enwhat23:57
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep task23:57
fsmithreddon't post the output here23:58
se7entask-laptop23:58
se7enis running23:58
fsmithredthat won't pull in ff23:58
se7enAlso tas-english, task-print-server, tasksel, and tasksel-data23:58
se7enI'll just remove all this stuff when I am finished, I guess23:59
se7enThough it is a waste of bandwidth23:59
fsmithredaptitude why firefox-esr23:59
se7enI hope I don't have to re-remove xscreensaver, slogind, and other crap23:59
se7eni   doc-debian  Suggests www-browser23:59
se7enp   firefox-esr Provides www-browser23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!