golinux | kingsley__: Please take those non-support questions to #debianfork | 00:01 |
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g4570n | A First Look At Devuan 3.0 "Beowulf" by DistroTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrIgyZhtUk | 00:19 |
EHeM | Now playing with "beowulf"... | 00:38 |
EHeM | Somehow the umask is being ignored?! | 00:39 |
fsmithred | what umask? | 00:40 |
EHeM | There is more than one? `umask` => 0022, `touch foo ; ls -l foo` => "-rw-rw-rw-" | 00:42 |
gnarface | you using a graphical login? lightdm doesn't execute your bash profile by default | 00:44 |
gnarface | see if it behaves differently when connecting via ssh | 00:44 |
EHeM | gnarface: That was directly at a shell (bash in fact), output of `umask` is "0022\n" (which is expected), yet the file was created 0666; test directory got 0777. | 00:45 |
gnarface | hmmm | 00:46 |
EHeM | gnarface: The one potential quirk is this is on NFS. | 00:46 |
DonkeyHotei | lol | 00:46 |
gnarface | heh | 00:46 |
gnarface | oh | 00:46 |
EHeM | And looking, that does appear to be an issue. | 00:47 |
gnarface | EHeM: probably it's the NFS setup then, i can't reproduce the bug just on the local filesystem | 00:47 |
EHeM | gnarface: The NFS server just recently got updated too, but file modes are calculated on the client. | 00:48 |
gnarface | NFS server is also beowulf? | 00:49 |
EHeM | Yes, updated about 24 hours after client. | 00:49 |
gnarface | EHeM: it couldn't have switched from nfs3 to nfs4, could it have? | 00:53 |
EHeM | Shouldn't, since it was already on NFSv4 (NFSv1-NFSv3 were all disabled). | 00:54 |
gnarface | oh | 00:56 |
gnarface | i wonder if it could have still been some change to some default kernel option though | 00:57 |
rrq | is it some fat file system? | 00:58 |
gnarface | rrq: that would explain why it's not working now but not why it used to work before | 00:59 |
rrq | true | 01:00 |
EHeM | I've also noticed setting of $PATH via /etc/login.defs appears to have broken too. | 01:00 |
gnarface | now that sounds familiar, i think someone else had an issue with a change to login.defs handling recently | 01:01 |
fsmithred | I think some nfs options changed from ascii to beowulf | 01:01 |
EHeM | rrq: Who is stupid enough to use Fully Awful Trash anywhere where other options are available. | 01:01 |
rrq | :) | 01:01 |
rrq | I apologise! | 01:01 |
fsmithred | easy fix for root path is put 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' in /etc/default/su | 01:02 |
fsmithred | you can put that in login.defs instead, but then you get a warning when you log in | 01:03 |
nemo | *sigh* | 01:12 |
nemo | amdgpu-pro crashes beowulf xserver | 01:13 |
nemo | reason for it might be the ABI incompatibility | 01:13 |
nemo | 24 in xserver 1.20 and 23 (1.19) in amdgpu-pro | 01:13 |
nemo | so, thought I'd see if xserver could be downgraded from 1.20 to 1.19 | 01:13 |
nemo | noooope, I should know better than to pull on a big thread like that in gentoo | 01:13 |
nemo | well, I should say, it kinda works, if I don't mind losing the task-desktop which depends on tasksel which if I chose to downgrade clobbers important stuff like ssh | 01:15 |
nemo | hmmm | 01:15 |
EHeM | Things seem to suggest the umask issue showed up when the server was updated, I've got a VM lying around which was pre-beowulf and never observed any such issue. | 01:16 |
nemo | maybe those tasks aren't so important 😉 | 01:16 |
nemo | downgrading to ascii xorg does seem to allow X to start | 01:16 |
nemo | that seems to have done it! | 01:17 |
nemo | woo | 01:17 |
nemo | no idea what task-desktop and task-mate-desktop do, but stuff seems to startup sooooo | 01:23 |
fsmithred | those are metapackages that pull in lots of packages that actually do stuff | 01:24 |
fsmithred | so you can get a complete desktop by installing three packages | 01:25 |
fsmithred | but it can make it difficult to remove parts of that whole | 01:25 |
EHeM | fsmithred: Is there any database library implementation those don't manage to pull in? | 01:29 |
fsmithred | not sure what you're asking | 01:29 |
EHeM | I'm commenting that it is nearly impossible to avoid installing MySQL, PostgresSQL and MariaDB with a "desktop" installation. So many packages depend on them due to /sometimes/ wanting the functionality they're hard to avoid. | 01:31 |
fsmithred | maybe some libs get installed, but the actual db programs don't come in by default | 01:32 |
fsmithred | xsane pulls in mysql-common here | 01:33 |
fsmithred | lots of people do a minimal install to start and then add what they want | 01:33 |
fsmithred | and using --no-install-recommends helps reduce bloat | 01:34 |
gnarface | EHeM: check into SQLite | 01:42 |
gnarface | (the only one without a boat load of dependencies) | 01:42 |
specing | that sounds weird | 01:49 |
specing | shouldn't those apps only install the db connector clients? | 01:49 |
gnarface | specing: i dunno, maybe, but something in the tangled mess of gnome dependences you get when you install gnome or any gnome tool comes with a full-blown copy of mysql | 01:56 |
gnarface | specing: (which as far as i can tell is only not sqlite due to lack of basic discipline) | 01:57 |
gnarface | i think there might be an issue with the mesa-va-drivers:amd64 package in beowulf. it doesn't seem installable, anyone else having that issue? | 02:01 |
gnarface | that's the only package conflict i couldn't resolve | 02:02 |
gnarface | but if i just remove va-driver-all:amd64 it stops complaining (i don't think it worked for me anyway on this card with nouveau, so it's no big deal, but this might be impacting others...) | 02:02 |
gnarface | that's 3 ascii->beowulf upgrades now, all almost without a hitch | 02:13 |
gnarface | (though to be fair, the hitch on the ARM one was expected and not a Devuan problem) | 02:15 |
EHeM | Installing the libraries still means something with security updates. | 02:39 |
EHeM | The project after removing systemd should be trying to turn "requires" dependancies into "recommends" dependancies; make use of libtool and start dlopen()ing libraries instead of directly linking to them. | 02:42 |
EHeM | Also need to shoot whomever involved with fuse decided they needed to add a "nonempty" option. | 04:08 |
EHeM | That is unusual, which is a surprise and surprises are a Bad Thing(tm). | 04:08 |
EHeM | Favored approach for random option mount points is `ln -s /dev/null /mnt/mntpt/Volume\ Not\ Mounted` which works with everything except the stupid fuse libraries. | 04:10 |
EHeM | "cachefilesd" is looking suspiciously problematic for the umask issue. | 04:17 |
EHeM | Hmm, perhaps not... | 04:22 |
Guest26850 | Hello, how can I install a gtk2 version of Thunar in beowulf? | 04:54 |
Guest26850 | also various xfce4 utilities | 04:54 |
Guest26850 | these are the programs i notice http://dpaste.com/3ZKN7KR | 04:58 |
Guest26850 | i'm not concerned with userspace software like atril, parole, etc i can replace those | 04:58 |
Guest26850 | but thunar and the xfce utils I don't know how to install gtk2 versions of | 04:58 |
* frabbit reminds fsmithred to try to reproduce that deborphan thing | 05:08 | |
gnarface | Guest26850: i think it would require rebuilding the packages | 05:08 |
gnarface | Guest26850: package building basics haven't deviated from the Debian documentation | 05:10 |
Guest26850 | is there a way to build forwardports instead of backports? | 05:12 |
Guest26850 | it doesn't look like thunar 1.8 supports gtk2 but thunar 1.6 does | 05:12 |
gnarface | the process shouldn't be fundamentally different, you'd just need a copy of the older source code and the patience and knowledge to patch out any API compatibilities | 05:13 |
gnarface | i think you might be able to get older source code versions from the debian snapshots repos, but i'm not sure about that | 05:13 |
Guest26850 | ok | 05:15 |
Guest26850 | what do you mean by API compatibilities | 05:15 |
gnarface | well, you might actually have to update the source code | 05:15 |
gnarface | i can't tell you specifics | 05:15 |
Guest26850 | ok | 05:15 |
gnarface | you might get lucky though | 05:15 |
Guest26850 | nothing i haven't done for other distros | 05:15 |
Guest26850 | gnarface, if that is the case there are a bunch of other things i really do not like about thunar's defaults | 05:16 |
Guest26850 | I was thinking about just forking it since I don;t see the XFCE team heading in the right direction with it | 05:16 |
Guest26850 | where is the documentation for submitting a new package for maintainership in devuan if I go down that route? | 05:17 |
golinux | Guest26850: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/wip/new-packaging-guide/maintainers | 05:27 |
Guest26850 | thank you | 05:28 |
golinux | Please understand that Devuan's singular purpose is to provide Debian without systemd. | 05:29 |
golinux | However there are many contributions available in our repos that are unofficial | 05:31 |
golinux | and available to users. | 05:31 |
golinux | I might even be suggested that you first see if such changes might be accepted upstream as an alternative. | 05:33 |
golinux | I > It | 05:34 |
golinux | Why? The less we are committed to maintain the better. | 05:34 |
frabbit | Guest26850: if youre a looking for a lightweight system then using a "desktop manager enviroment what ever it calls itself" is the wrong direction imho... | 05:50 |
frabbit | golinux: i wonder if it wouldnt even be better to maybe dropt some software taht has just eyecandys. i mean why not offer a minimal beginner guish something to only? | 05:51 |
frabbit | *drop | 05:51 |
frabbit | more programs = more packages = more work... | 05:52 |
frabbit | hm.. surf2 doesnt use the options i gave it... | 07:44 |
frabbit | i runned: "surf2 --aBgkmsT" but it starts with "AcgDISVMfT" | 07:45 |
frabbit | *"surf2 -aBgkmsT" | 07:46 |
frabbit | it also complains about D-Bus library but that isnt the issue here i guess? other programs do too and i dont have problems with them | 07:47 |
frabbit | ok some thing are already default as it seems, so it isnt necessary to specify -B to enable a scrollbar | 07:54 |
frabbit | *thing | 07:54 |
frabbit | *things | 07:54 |
frabbit | ah i see i need to run "-a a" for denying all cookies | 07:59 |
frabbit | and that has broke the rest of the options too (but i got no notice... hm ok) | 08:00 |
Wonka | Err:11 http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable Release | 08:34 |
Wonka | 404 Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80] | 08:34 |
frabbit | Wonka: do have that in your source.list? | 08:39 |
frabbit | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/stable/Release | 08:40 |
xrogaan | > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main non-free contrib | 08:47 |
frabbit | xrogaan: yeah thats why i asked if that is in Wonkas source.list, caused it looks more like a url with some missing / | 08:49 |
humpelstilzchen[ | Gratulations..just it would have been nice to to have this error: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931566 | 09:00 |
frabbit | The headline here is wrong: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/full-disk-encryption.html - it si not describing FDE (Full disk encryption) cause the /boot partion isnt encrypted in that tutorial... | 09:04 |
frabbit | fde is only possible on a computer with libreboot or if you swap the /boot partition out to some external device | 09:05 |
frabbit | *sigh* ok i was hoping it would not happen, but now the fun begins... | 09:18 |
frabbit | i installed the minimal xfcd as discribed on documenation: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/minimal-xfce-install.html | 09:19 |
frabbit | in that process dpkg gaves output that libsystemd0 will be removed | 09:19 |
frabbit | but also that this package is needed by xser-xorg-core and some others | 09:20 |
frabbit | but these packages now are still there | 09:20 |
frabbit | also i cant run startx successfully as non-root as it is written in the release notes | 09:21 |
frabbit | oh wait eloginis needed | 09:21 |
frabbit | *elogind | 09:22 |
* frabbit tries that | 09:22 | |
Wonka | frabbit: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable main | 09:23 |
Wonka | frabbit: that's the entry in sources.list | 09:23 |
Wonka | I guess it's an out-of-sync mirror maybe? | 09:24 |
frabbit | Wonka: ok so so as xrogaan wrote | 09:26 |
frabbit | *so do | 09:26 |
frabbit | 08:44 < xrogaan> > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main | 09:26 |
frabbit | always use the version name not stable testing etc. ive had the same problem in the past ;) | 09:27 |
frabbit | ok with elogind startx as non root user works | 09:28 |
frabbit | maybe that removing of libsystemd0 is something wanted? but if so why it comes with installation? | 09:28 |
frabbit | oh! leafpad is gone =o https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=leafpad | 09:34 |
frabbit | an themes for xfwm4 too: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=xfwm4-themes | 09:34 |
frabbit | was it merged to xfwm4 package? | 09:35 |
frabbit | lol i gave /var 1GB at partitioning and now that i run my beginner_install_script.sh apt says theres not enough space on my /var xD | 09:41 |
frabbit | ive never had this space problme on my own system before | 09:41 |
frabbit | *problem | 09:41 |
frabbit | man.. mat-gui is gone too in buster D= thats really bad | 10:20 |
Wonka | ok, with "apt update", I need to confirm the suite updates for beowulf from testing to stable. aptitude simply fails. is there already a bug against that? | 10:21 |
xrogaan | it's not a bug | 11:17 |
xrogaan | if it is, it's on debian's side | 11:18 |
humpelstilzchen[ | Wonka: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931566 aka Acquire::AllowReleaseInfoChange "true"; somewhere in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d | 11:24 |
Wonka | humpelstilzchen[: but I don't want to simply allow it, I want aptitude to ask me if I'll allow it, like "apt update" does. | 11:31 |
fsmithred | frabbit, you can do full disk encryption with the live isos. | 11:51 |
fsmithred | Check box for encryption and don't use a separate partition for /boot. | 11:52 |
fsmithred | deborphan -k keep-orphans | 11:57 |
fsmithred | guess next step is to alias the command to include that option | 11:57 |
fsmithred | frabbit, ^^^ | 11:57 |
robin_ | Guys, if i have a TP Link Usb Wifi adapter how can i "install it "properly"? If im at for example debian it comes up automaticly in networkmanager if i plug it in | 12:34 |
robin_ | if i plug it in here nothing happens : / | 12:34 |
fsmithred | dmesg |tail | 12:35 |
robin_ | it's like a "driver free" usb wifi ( should be ) | 12:35 |
fsmithred | ip a | 12:35 |
fsmithred | then make sure wicd has that interface set as the default wireless | 12:36 |
fsmithred | don't post command output here - bot will bounce you | 12:36 |
robin_ | so i just put dmesg |tail and my ip adresse and it should be good to go you mean? | 12:38 |
fsmithred | no | 12:43 |
fsmithred | put that in a terminal right after you plug in the dongle and you will see if it is recognized | 12:44 |
fsmithred | 'ip a' will list network interfaces, so you can get the name | 12:44 |
fsmithred | which is probably something like wxl-<mac address> | 12:44 |
fsmithred | then you can put that interface name in wicd preferences | 12:45 |
fsmithred | and Refresh wicd. It should then see wireless signals. | 12:45 |
robin_ | cant find it with dmesh but with lsusb i find it | 12:49 |
ShorTie | there is also 'ls /sys/class/net' to see if it is there and it's name | 12:50 |
fsmithred | does 'ip a' show it? | 12:51 |
robin_ | think i maybe found it | 12:52 |
robin_ | but where should i put it in refernce in wicd ? : P | 12:52 |
fsmithred | the interface name? | 12:53 |
fsmithred | make wicd window bigger, and you'll see Preferences in upper right | 12:53 |
fsmithred | put interface name in the box for default wireless | 12:53 |
fsmithred | then Refresh wicd | 12:54 |
frabbit | Wonka: aptitude is a frontend for a frontend.. i avoid such..."solutions". just use apt only ;) | 14:08 |
fsmithred | frabbit, did you see my deborphan notes? | 14:08 |
frabbit | fsmithred: fde with live iso: how does that work? grub must be somewhere and if it is on the encrypted disk... who or better what is asking for the decryption of the /boot partition? with libreboot there comes a minmal grub with that does this job. | 14:10 |
frabbit | fsmithred: deborphan: yes | 14:10 |
fsmithred | fde? | 14:10 |
frabbit | will have a look at it later | 14:10 |
frabbit | full disk encryption | 14:10 |
fsmithred | oh | 14:10 |
fsmithred | it works because the live installer puts the appropriate line in /etc/default/grub | 14:11 |
fsmithred | nothing asks for decryption of the /boot partition because there is no /boot partition | 14:11 |
fsmithred | the /boot directory is part of the root partition | 14:11 |
frabbit | doesnt mater | 14:11 |
frabbit | -> /boot is neede to boot the system | 14:12 |
frabbit | *needed | 14:12 |
fsmithred | grub is in mbr if it's bios boot, in efi partition if it's uefi | 14:12 |
frabbit | if it is on a encrypted space u need to decrypt that space first... | 14:12 |
fsmithred | yes, of course there is a boot directory with the usual components | 14:12 |
fsmithred | yes, and grub will ask for the passphrase | 14:12 |
fsmithred | then it will show you a grub menu | 14:13 |
frabbit | grub is in bios? o_0 | 14:13 |
fsmithred | start to load kernel | 14:13 |
fsmithred | and then ask for the passphrase | 14:13 |
fsmithred | grub is in mbr and knows how to decrypt the partition | 14:13 |
frabbit | but mbr is on the hdd/ssd | 14:14 |
fsmithred | omg | 14:14 |
fsmithred | yes | 14:14 |
frabbit | so? | 14:14 |
fsmithred | that does not disqualify it for full disk encryption | 14:14 |
frabbit | that hdd/ssd is encrypted... | 14:15 |
fsmithred | mbr is not in any of the partitions | 14:15 |
frabbit | oh! | 14:15 |
frabbit | i didnt know that | 14:15 |
specing | frabbit: grub is in the 2047 sectors after MBR but before any partitions | 14:15 |
specing | (1MB) | 14:15 |
fsmithred | first part of the disk is for boot code and the partition table | 14:15 |
frabbit | i mean i know that there isnt any /mbr or something but i always thought it is somewhere on the installation... | 14:15 |
fsmithred | advantage of fde is that kernel and initrd are protected | 14:16 |
frabbit | yes | 14:17 |
fsmithred | I don't like it because it's slow to boot | 14:17 |
frabbit | thats why i use it | 14:17 |
frabbit | specing: thx ;) | 14:17 |
fsmithred | for security, I'd rather put /boot on a usb stick | 14:17 |
fsmithred | which is less convenient | 14:17 |
frabbit | fsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times | 14:17 |
frabbit | fsmithred: until u lost it xD | 14:17 |
frabbit | "damn where was that stick again...?" | 14:18 |
fsmithred | yeah, security requires some work | 14:18 |
frabbit | fsmithred: #debianfork becuase thats gettin ot | 14:18 |
specing | fsmithred: it's slow because grub's pbkdf is slow | 14:19 |
specing | fsmithred: reduce the number of iterations and it'll boot faster | 14:19 |
specing | > frabbit | fsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times | 14:19 |
frabbit | specing: i really have no problmes with boot speed since i have libreboot its so fu***** fast | 14:19 |
specing | someone could code up an interface through which grub could pass along the key | 14:20 |
fsmithred | can't put the key in the root partition? I haven't tried that. | 14:21 |
specing | fsmithred: I guess one way would be for GRUB to generate an unencrypted LUKS header on the fly and pass it as additional initrd to the kernel | 14:21 |
fsmithred | I would expect it to work if you have the key listed in crypttab | 14:21 |
specing | but someone has to code that | 14:21 |
fsmithred | you would still need to put password in one time | 14:22 |
fsmithred | my way | 14:22 |
fsmithred | for grub to pass the key, you need a removable key | 14:22 |
specing | why | 14:25 |
frabbit | gcompris in beowulf is now unplayable on an old laptop... =( that will make someone really sad... | 14:26 |
frabbit | also why mat2 doesnt contain a gui anymore? | 14:26 |
fsmithred | how does grub know who is booting the computer? | 14:27 |
fsmithred | or maybe you are proposing using password once instead of twice | 14:30 |
frabbit | can i use an odler version of gcompris in beowulf without causing any troubles? | 14:34 |
frabbit | *older | 14:34 |
fsmithred | no idea | 14:34 |
frabbit | i can download older version here: https://gcompris.net/download/qt/linux/ | 14:35 |
fsmithred | so try it | 14:36 |
frabbit | i dont wnat to try to install it with apt from ascii... | 14:36 |
fsmithred | no | 14:36 |
frabbit | fsmithred: yeah | 14:36 |
fsmithred | dpkg -i | 14:36 |
frabbit | yes | 14:36 |
frabbit | or maybe i can do it like i run the tbb or newest ff | 14:36 |
frabbit | lets see... | 14:37 |
frabbit | hmm other versions numbering here... in ascii it says it is 15.10-1 | 14:37 |
frabbit | but upstream newest version is 0.97.... | 14:38 |
frabbit | *sigh* | 14:38 |
* frabbit needs to figure out now what version 15.10-1 is... | 14:38 | |
fsmithred | I can't check versions right now | 14:39 |
frabbit | fsmithred: u dont need to ;) | 14:40 |
frabbit | huh? whats that channelmode? | 14:43 |
frabbit | ok 0.80 is already that heavy thing.. o_0 | 14:54 |
Wonka | frabbit: well, aptitude makes complex situations much easier... like, when you're living on the edge of unstable, and there's packages you cannot update yet because the new dependencies are not there yet... | 15:06 |
frabbit | Wonka: ok is that so? i never lived that way =) | 15:08 |
frabbit | im living in the past | 15:08 |
frabbit | where gcompris was still playable 4 example... | 15:08 |
frabbit | from wich year was the gcompris version in ascii? o_0 ive tried out one here from 2015 and that has already the new interface that kills my gpu... | 15:21 |
frabbit | wait! there are two versions one with qt and one with gtk and beowulf has the qt version that sucks | 15:24 |
frabbit | i think that this is it but i cant be 100% sure... | 15:24 |
Xelraa | Idk about how good idea that 4.19 kernel for beuwulf was | 16:50 |
Xelraa | my vmware workstation 15 segfaulting the hell out itself | 16:50 |
Xelraa | when restoring saving shutting down vms | 16:50 |
Xelraa | exact same core i7 hardware just having a debian 9 + devuan 3 multiboot | 16:51 |
Xelraa | my debian is stretch 9.12 with kernel 4.9.0-11 and don't have any problems like this | 16:51 |
Mate_cz | Hello, sorry for the noob question - I have a devuan 1.0 on arm machine. Does anybody knows the easy way to expand sd card to full size (from 2GB to 16GB)? gparted is not included. Can creat wpa_supplicant to connext to wifi. Theres no gui in the distro.. thanks in advance | 17:29 |
frabbit | Mate_cz: ask here: #devuan-arm | 17:37 |
specing | Mate_cz: fdisk, t option in menu | 17:38 |
fsmithred | Mate_cz, resize2fs? | 17:38 |
specing | err d then n | 17:38 |
Mate_cz | frabbit: nobodys on the channel :) | 17:39 |
fsmithred | delete and new? | 17:39 |
specing | yes | 17:39 |
Mate_cz | specing: thx, will try | 17:39 |
fsmithred | you don't want to keep jessie? | 17:39 |
specing | fsmithred: it doesen't delete data, just the partition info | 17:39 |
specing | it'll work fine as long as the new partition has the same number and starts at the same sector | 17:40 |
fsmithred | wow, ok | 17:40 |
fsmithred | sounds too much like the time I accidentally wiped my partition table | 17:41 |
specing | I never loooked into it, but filesystems probably have some header at the start | 17:42 |
specing | so you can trivially reconstruct the table | 17:42 |
fsmithred | yeah, I did that | 17:42 |
fsmithred | it worked ok for the primary partition, but not for the extended | 17:42 |
specing | I don't know why these things are still used when LVM exists | 17:43 |
specing | most distros just have dumb defaults in their partitioners | 17:43 |
specing | I believe Devuan is no exception | 17:43 |
fsmithred | we use debian-installer | 17:44 |
fsmithred | and for the live isos, refractainstaller, which absolutely does not have dumb defaults for partitioning | 17:44 |
specing | I remember fighting the installer to install to btrfs | 17:44 |
fsmithred | because it doesn't partition anything for you | 17:44 |
frabbit | Mate_cz: oh! =o | 17:45 |
specing | and I had to do the same recently in Fedora | 17:45 |
specing | they have 3 partitioners and none can do it | 17:45 |
fsmithred | did we work on btrfs together, or am I thinking of someone else? | 17:45 |
frabbit | Mate_cz: wait no there are 23 persons! | 17:45 |
specing | fsmithred: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2175 | 17:46 |
frabbit | Mate_cz: 17:43 -alis(alis@services.)- #devuan-arm 23 :Devuan on ARM boards :: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk :: https://devuan.org :: this is a low-traffic channel mainly for me to give help more easily and to track bugs (parazyd) | 17:46 |
Mate_cz | frabbit: my bad - one extra character used :) | 17:46 |
Mate_cz | thx | 17:46 |
frabbit | ## ? | 17:46 |
frabbit | =) | 17:47 |
Mate_cz | yeah | 17:47 |
frabbit | xD i know that | 17:47 |
fsmithred | specing, yeah, that one. Thanks. I think I just deleted that btrfs VM recently. | 17:48 |
specing | fsmithred: I wish Devuan had a Kickstart system like Fedora | 18:06 |
specing | that speeds things up tremendously | 18:06 |
fsmithred | what's it do? | 18:06 |
specing | https://framagit.org/specing//fedora | 18:06 |
specing | fsmithred: it pre-configures the installer | 18:06 |
fsmithred | debian-installer has preseed | 18:08 |
fsmithred | non-interactive install with pre-set choices | 18:08 |
nemo | 19:23 < nemo> no idea what task-desktop and task-mate-desktop do, but stuff seems to startup sooooo | 18:10 |
nemo | 19:24 < fsmithred> those are metapackages that pull in lots of packages that actually do stuff | 18:10 |
nemo | continuing this... any particular reason why those meta packages have such strict dependencies? | 18:10 |
nemo | instead of their subs? | 18:10 |
nemo | but I guess that explains why removing them didn't break anything | 18:11 |
nemo | (that is, I needed to downgrade xorg server, and it's surprising to me that meta packages to "install a desktop" would require xorg 1.20 instead of 1.19 | 18:11 |
nemo | ) | 18:11 |
nemo | maybe it's convenient to do, but kinda sucks in this sort of forced situation | 18:11 |
fsmithred | I would expect forced versions in dependencies to be there for a reason, but that might not be a good assumption. | 18:12 |
nemo | fsmithred: welp. system hasn't broken yet 😃 | 18:13 |
nemo | fsmithred: and I'm actually able to do gl acceleration, so that's good | 18:13 |
fsmithred | cool | 18:15 |
nemo | can share my pin if anyone is in same situation with a new AMD card | 18:15 |
nemo | I did see a lot of bug reports online. on ubuntu and such, with people running into same problem | 18:15 |
nemo | curiously they were trying all kinds of odd random fixes | 18:16 |
fsmithred | might be worth posting on forum - it'll turn up on a search | 18:16 |
nemo | instead of, oh, addressing the ABI problem | 18:16 |
nemo | if your amdgpu driver is video ABI 23 and your server is video abi 24, that cannot be good | 18:16 |
nemo | xorg only bumps abi if there are breaking changes | 18:16 |
nemo | fsmithred: that means making a forum account though 😝 | 18:16 |
nemo | hmmm maybe I made one? | 18:16 |
nemo | will have to check logins when I'm off the work computer | 18:17 |
fsmithred | I thought you had one | 18:18 |
nemo | one funny thing about the amd driver is it checks for ubuntu, mint or debian before saying that you are on an unsupported deb based distro | 18:19 |
nemo | |devuan was trivial to add ofc | 18:19 |
nemo | but, it does NOT check version | 18:19 |
nemo | the last 3 ubuntu releases use xorg 1.20 | 18:19 |
fsmithred | maybe they figured they didn't need to check version because the deps control that? | 18:20 |
nemo | fsmithred: possible but then they screwed that up too. since their xorg driver does not have a 1.20 version, or fails to check for it | 18:20 |
nemo | and they released it 2020-04-17 | 18:20 |
nemo | anyway. last 3 ubuntu releases probably have broken video with amdgpu-pro | 18:20 |
fsmithred | no forum account | 18:21 |
fsmithred | you on dng mailing list? | 18:21 |
nemo | durn | 18:21 |
nemo | probably not | 18:21 |
fsmithred | devuan-dev mailing list? | 18:22 |
nemo | certainly not ☺ | 18:22 |
fsmithred | pastebin it and I'll post it | 18:22 |
nemo | ok. | 18:22 |
nemo | it has the gotcha that it removed those tasks | 18:22 |
fsmithred | if you don't want to join any of those | 18:22 |
nemo | and I had to accept it | 18:22 |
nemo | but... it did not seem to screw anything up enormously beyond that | 18:22 |
fsmithred | mention that | 18:22 |
nemo | oh and naturally the tasks being removed caused devuan to think I didn't need libreoffice anymore, but was trivial to explicitly install to get autoremove off my case | 18:23 |
nemo | but IMO the tasks should have been more flexible | 18:23 |
nemo | ok. will write this allll up | 18:23 |
fsmithred | tasks and flexible don't go in same sentence. | 18:24 |
nemo | fsmithred: welll. you said it was a meta. so you'd *think* like a lot of metas it wouldn't have very explicit of versions. I thought that was normally for the stuff under it | 18:24 |
nemo | but maybe I don't understand debs very well | 18:25 |
fsmithred | what you say makes sense to me. I don't know why it's that way. | 18:25 |
nemo | fsmithred: https://m8y.org/tmp/amdgpu.html | 18:39 |
nemo | how's that | 18:39 |
fsmithred | nemo, thanks. I'll post it now and read it later. Might add some formatting. | 18:41 |
nemo | fsmithred: I added a sentence noting this almost certainly impacts ubuntu/debian/mint too | 18:41 |
nemo | just so people don't consider it a devuan problem 😝 | 18:42 |
fsmithred | cool | 18:42 |
tedious | Does the install you get from the devuan live dvd turn out the same as if you used the normal installer? | 20:03 |
tedious | Or do you end up with a live system running from your hard disk instead of a dvd? | 20:04 |
golinux_ | tedious: It is a normal devuan install | 20:29 |
nemo | fsmithred: hm. feedback on forum says that I can do a manual install from upstream. that's good to know | 20:35 |
nemo | fsmithred: and yeah, I was pretty darn sure debian hadn't updated firmware. | 20:35 |
nemo | but I didn't see any hint of it in other distros either, and since the card had had firmware patches just a couple of months ago... | 20:36 |
nemo | I do appreciate someone telling me how to do it though | 20:36 |
nemo | will try it later | 20:36 |
nemo | hmmm | 20:36 |
fsmithred | cool. Write it and I'll post it with the other fix. Then people can have a choice. | 20:37 |
nemo | fsmithred: ugh. requires kernel change too | 20:37 |
nemo | fsmithred: well he wrote it up | 20:37 |
nemo | I don't know if I want to change my kernel though | 20:37 |
fsmithred | backports kernel is 5.5 or 5.6 | 20:37 |
nemo | oh. ok. that makes me feel a bit better | 20:37 |
fsmithred | some people are using it already for new hardware | 20:37 |
nemo | if it is backports kernel... | 20:37 |
nemo | fsmithred: I'll try his method either tonight or tomorrow night. major deploys at work will have me working late | 20:38 |
fsmithred | yeah, beowulf-backports (=buster-backports) | 20:38 |
fsmithred | oh boy, I just made a chimaera live-iso. Now I get to see if it boots. | 20:38 |
nemo | but yeah, my usual instinct when the FOSS stuff completely fails to detect hardware even after attempting backport of firmware is to try the closed source | 20:38 |
nemo | and I did check for firmware backports and there was none in devuan with a recent enough date even in the bleeding edge stuff | 20:39 |
fsmithred | oh, my first thought is to try a newer kernel | 20:39 |
nemo | fsmithred: well yeah. | 20:39 |
nemo | fsmithred: but that along WITH the necessary amd fairy dust 😝 | 20:39 |
nemo | fsmithred: and since you guys didn't have a fairy dust package | 20:39 |
nemo | I had no idea how to go about it myself | 20:39 |
nemo | seems like it might not be too hard. | 20:39 |
fsmithred | new is always tricky with debian | 20:39 |
fsmithred | firmware-amd-graphics isn't the right dust? | 20:40 |
nemo | no. too old | 20:40 |
nemo | even in backports | 20:40 |
fsmithred | yeah, old is usually a feature | 20:40 |
nemo | he's recommending manual install, which I'm fine with if it isn't too hard | 20:40 |
nemo | fsmithred: for sure | 20:40 |
nemo | fsmithred: it's just nice to be able to selectively override | 20:40 |
nemo | and unfortunately debian sometimes lacks some flexibility there. ESPECIALLY with games | 20:40 |
nemo | I understand stability for core system stuff, but less so for games. I wish there was an additional category | 20:41 |
nemo | fun-backports or something | 20:41 |
nemo | Hedgewars has had soooo much trouble with debian over the years | 20:41 |
nemo | http://hedgewars.org/node/9132 | 20:41 |
EHeM | Upon further experimentation it now appears the NFS issue with modes requires *both* server and client to be on kernel 4.19; server on 4.9, client on 4.19 works; server on 4.19, client on 4.9 works. | 20:54 |
EHeM | I've seen some hints pointing towards NFSv4 being part of the problem (v2 and v3 are disabled on this server). | 20:55 |
fsmithred | EHeM, I have server on 4.19 and client on 4.9 and I have some problems with not being able to mount the share without restarting nfs-kernel-server | 20:56 |
* enyc meows | 21:08 | |
plasma41 | The channel topic should be updated to mention the Beowulf release. Who has the op privileges to do that? | 21:15 |
fsmithred | parazyd ^^^ | 21:17 |
fsmithred | probably someone else, too | 21:17 |
fsmithred | definitely someone else, too | 21:19 |
fsmithred | now what? | 21:19 |
fsmithred | help | 21:20 |
fsmithred | someone look at the topic and tell me if I did it right | 21:24 |
stiltr | lgtm | 21:24 |
fsmithred | thanks | 21:25 |
plasma41 | Looks right to me, though do we need to mention the conference in the topic still? | 21:25 |
fsmithred | not sure what's there | 21:26 |
ShorTie | Conference (2019) , does sound a little old | 21:28 |
fsmithred | I'll put it on the pad | 21:29 |
parazyd | fsmithred: Did you solve it? | 21:58 |
fsmithred | yes | 21:58 |
parazyd | cool :) | 21:58 |
fsmithred | we just need to decide... | 21:58 |
fsmithred | keep conference link or not? | 21:58 |
parazyd | IMHO, no need. Since it's probably linked somewhere on the website. | 21:58 |
golinux | Not needed one year out imo | 21:58 |
fsmithred | also, I updated live-sdk blends couple days ago | 21:58 |
parazyd | If there's a new conference, then add it :) | 21:58 |
fsmithred | yeah, ok. I'll do it now. | 21:59 |
fsmithred | and btw, chimaera live-iso works. (made with refractasnapshot) | 21:59 |
parazyd | fsmithred: ok @ blends. If there's things you want me to push/review, best is to just send me a message in private | 21:59 |
parazyd | I'll probably reply :p | 21:59 |
fsmithred | ok | 22:00 |
enyc | i'd like to see quide/difference to those who have had a beuwolf-beta a long time vs 'clean install', things likely to be wrong, and so-on | 22:27 |
enyc | I've experienced wierdness with gui processes eating 100% cpu until killed and restarted, and intermittency with auto mounting usb drevs, these sorts of bugginess things | 22:28 |
fsmithred | comb through forum posts from the last few months and create such a guide | 22:28 |
fsmithred | haven't see that myself | 22:28 |
fsmithred | I've heard it mentioned here, but not sure if that was you | 22:29 |
fsmithred | in the past week, I guess | 22:29 |
Guest5406 | hi | 22:44 |
glat-agent643 | Hello. I am selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today! | 22:44 |
Guest5406 | anybody knows about a devuan/debian derivative using runit as init system? | 22:50 |
golinux | Devuan should have runit | 22:51 |
Guest5406 | i only heard about void linux and artix | 22:51 |
golinux | in the point release iirc | 22:51 |
Guest5406 | hi golinux | 22:51 |
golinux | It's mentioned in the release announcement | 22:51 |
golinux | Hi aitor! | 22:51 |
golinux | https://devuan.org/os/announce/beowulf-stable-announce-060120 | 22:52 |
Guest5406 | thanks, golinux | 22:52 |
Guest5406 | ? | 22:53 |
Guest5406 | it's not /sbin/init, but /sbin/runit-init | 22:54 |
MinceR | glat-agent643: someone has outbid you, at $0 | 22:54 |
glat-agent643 | How much licenses do you have? | 22:54 |
Guest5406 | i've been working on the configuration of runit under gnuinos during these days | 22:55 |
stiltr | Guest5406: Presumably apt install runit | 22:55 |
Guest5406 | and i have an image working right now | 22:56 |
Guest5406 | stiltr: some services must be stablished at /etc/sv | 22:57 |
Guest5406 | *established | 22:57 |
Guest5406 | and symlinks to them at /etc/runit/runsvdir | 22:58 |
stiltr | I've got no idea. Sorry. | 22:59 |
glat-agent643 | I am still selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today! | 22:59 |
Guest5406 | i removed sysvinit, sysvinit-core and also a sysvint-utils (a critical package), and everything is working fine so far | 23:00 |
se7en | Is ASCII considered old-stable yet | 23:31 |
se7en | Should I upgrade to buster | 23:31 |
stiltr | Beowulf is stable now. | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | se7en, you mean Beowulf :) | 23:33 |
se7en | yes | 23:36 |
se7en | I don't have enough memory in /var/cache/apt/archives | 23:44 |
se7en | Is there a way to change the location of downloaded pacages | 23:44 |
se7en | After this operation, 2,497 MB of additional disk space will be used. | 23:45 |
se7en | E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. | 23:45 |
se7en | heh | 23:45 |
tuxd3v | :D | 23:45 |
fsmithred | don't you want to clean out the old packages? | 23:45 |
fsmithred | copy /var/cache/apt/archives to a bigger partition and then make a symlink | 23:46 |
fsmithred | apt-get autoclean will get rid of obsolete packages, apg-get clean will get rid of all of them. | 23:47 |
se7en | There is nothing in that folder | 23:49 |
fsmithred | what's filling /var? | 23:51 |
fsmithred | renegade logs? | 23:52 |
se7en | There doiesn't appear to be much at all | 23:53 |
fsmithred | du -sh | 23:53 |
fsmithred | no | 23:54 |
fsmithred | df -h | 23:54 |
fsmithred | see how full it is first | 23:54 |
se7en | I'm running it with the symlink so it might be an invalid statistic | 23:54 |
se7en | but | 23:54 |
se7en | /dev/mapper/lappy--vg-var ext4 2.7G 1023M 1.6G 40% /var | 23:54 |
fsmithred | or run someting like gdmap to get a graphical representation | 23:54 |
fsmithred | oh | 23:55 |
fsmithred | make it bigger | 23:55 |
fsmithred | for extra credit, do it while it's mounted and running | 23:55 |
se7en | It's not nessesarily wise to just make partitions bigger all the time | 23:55 |
se7en | Especially when there is no defragmention service for ext4 | 23:56 |
fsmithred | sweat bullets | 23:56 |
fsmithred | you can add a volume to it, but then that has other issues | 23:56 |
EHeM | My strategy is to attach a large shared filesystem to the VM, then do an overlay mount of /var/cache/apt/archives (saves bandwidth too!). | 23:56 |
se7en | Why is this upgrade process installing packages I deliberatly removed from my system | 23:57 |
se7en | Including firefox-est | 23:57 |
se7en | esr | 23:57 |
fsmithred | task-desktop and task-whatever-desktop? | 23:57 |
se7en | what | 23:57 |
fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep task | 23:57 |
fsmithred | don't post the output here | 23:58 |
se7en | task-laptop | 23:58 |
se7en | is running | 23:58 |
fsmithred | that won't pull in ff | 23:58 |
se7en | Also tas-english, task-print-server, tasksel, and tasksel-data | 23:58 |
se7en | I'll just remove all this stuff when I am finished, I guess | 23:59 |
se7en | Though it is a waste of bandwidth | 23:59 |
fsmithred | aptitude why firefox-esr | 23:59 |
se7en | I hope I don't have to re-remove xscreensaver, slogind, and other crap | 23:59 |
se7en | i doc-debian Suggests www-browser | 23:59 |
se7en | p firefox-esr Provides www-browser | 23:59 |
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