libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-06-13

frabbiti want to xopy a whole system to another ssd. is that possible with tools from devuan repos?00:07
frabbit*copy00:07
freemcp -ar ?00:07
ShorTiecp -a will work00:07
ShorTieoops, ya -ar00:08
freemprobably needs root rights, though00:08
freemotherwise the user permissions won't be correct, I suppose.00:08
ShorTieand not runnin00:08
ShorTieyou can rsync it too, then it canbe running00:08
EHeMThere is also `tar` or `dump`/`restore`, or potentially `dd` depending upon the actually desired operation.00:09
freemdd seems a bit... violent?00:09
freemalso needs the destination's capacity >= source's one00:10
ShorTienot violet, but is not forgiving at all00:10
frabbitfreem: o_0 "cp -ar / /dev/ssd_on_usb_adapter" really?00:10
frabbitbut its encrypted00:11
MinceRyou'd need to make a filesystem and mount it00:11
freemah... true, that'll create problems, since recursive?00:11
freemand yes, destination needs to be mounted00:11
ShorTiei don't know if it only works on a pi, but there is rpi-clone that will clone a running system00:11
MinceRmaybe cp can do exceptions already00:11
MinceRyou probably don't want to copy /dev either00:11
freemI doubt cp would work from a living system00:11
MinceRor /proc00:11
MinceRwell, the results could be somewhat inconsistent00:12
freemwell, /proc, /dev, /sys...00:12
frabbitok so encrypt the ssd, create same filesystem (ext2 for example) and then just copy? but what abot the partitons?00:12
ShorTiethe actual rsync line will work on anything00:12
* frabbit looks for rsync00:13
stiltr-x will keep cp on one filesystem00:13
EHeMFavored tool for the sort of situation being described is `tar`.00:13
frabbitbtw: what about uuids in /etc/fstab?00:14
frabbitand maybe on some other playes?00:14
ShorTieonly dd will keep that correct00:14
frabbitthe new ssd will have a different one00:14
frabbitdd if=/ of=/device ?00:15
ShorTienop, be more like dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc00:16
frabbiter yeah sorry00:16
ShorTiedrive can not be mounted for dd to work00:16
frabbitbut first encrypt and then open and mount /dev/sdc(foobar)?00:17
frabbitoh00:17
ShorTieSo So Sorry, know nuffin about encrypt00:17
frabbitbut i need to open the luks thing00:17
ShorTie?me not nasa00:17
frabbit=/00:17
frabbitnasa?00:18
frabbitor nsa00:18
ShorTieeither, lol.00:18
frabbit=D00:18
freemwhy do you want to actually copy? Would not it be easier to install from debootstrap on the encrypted disk?00:18
ShorTieie: nuffin important here .. :/~00:18
EHeMfrabbit: Assume all the UUIDs in /etc/fstab will be invalidated.00:18
frabbitEhyeah ive said that00:18
frabbitEHeM:00:18
frabbitfreem: ermm00:19
frabbiti dont know debotstrap00:19
ShorTiedd will preserve them00:19
freemdebootstrap is a software that allows to install a debian-like on a target.00:19
frabbiti said copy because i want the system 1o1 on another disk00:19
freemwithout going throught the installer, ofc.00:19
EHeMIt is possible to change the UUID of some filesystems (check `tune2fs` for ext[234]), but you're better using a fresh filesystem.00:19
frabbitfreem: but i dont want to reinstall the system00:20
frabbitEHeM: thx =)00:20
freemk00:20
frabbitlets see00:20
frabbithow about this:00:20
EHeMI prefer using the PARTUUID since I've got a server with VMs, and the filesystem UUIDs are a potential route of attack.00:21
stiltrIf you're using luks, you'll be using /etc/cryptab rather than /etc/fstab for disk/partition UUIDs00:22
stiltrs/cryptab/crypttab/00:23
frabbitnew ssd -> encrypting except /boot -> partitioning the same way i partitioned the old hdd -> open that thing as external device in that running system i want to copy "cryptsetup luksOpen bla" -> mount all partitions -> copy partition after partition to the new ssd -> change UUIDS on the SSD system to the UUIDS the partitions on the ssd got00:23
frabbitwould that work?00:23
se7engnarface: http://ix.io/2p1q00:23
se7enthe output of debsums --config | grep FAILED00:24
se7enoh, sorry00:24
se7enthat isn't the full output00:25
stiltrfrabbit: Probably easier to just change crypttab/fstab to match the new UUIDs, but otherwise sounds reasonable.00:25
stiltrOh, that's what you said. Sorry, misread...00:25
se7enhttp://ix.io/2p1r00:26
frabbitstiltr: i cant find that cryptab00:26
frabbitoh00:27
frabbitcrypttab00:27
frabbitxD00:27
frabbitok thats a bit more then just cp but if it will work =)00:28
frabbitstiltr: thx00:28
frabbitand thx to all the others too00:28
stiltrGood luck!00:30
frabbitstiltr: thx =)00:35
freemdo someone know if there is a way to prevent dpkg to auto enable sysvinit daemons?00:54
freemon installations/upgrades, I mean00:54
stiltrHow are you disabling them?00:58
freemusually, update-rc.d daemon remove00:58
gnarfacese7en: i told you i'm not clicking on that unless you use paste.debian.net; if your paste is larger than their max paste size then you're pasting way more than i can make use of anyway01:00
stiltrfreem: Hmm. I don't know of a way to prevent those hooks from running. I know some packages will have a /etc/defaults/pkg with an enable flag...01:04
freemah, sad. ty anyway01:07
stiltrI'm certainly no expert though, so that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.01:08
stiltrYou could probably do something like modify the /etc/rc.x/ symlinks to be essentially noops and then chmod +i them, but I don't know that that would be the best idea.01:09
gnarfacefreem: it's so simple to edit the symlinks to just all have K instead of S as the first character.  write a simple shell script01:12
gnarfacefreem: or just use the update-rc.d tool in a loop01:13
freemmy question is about the installs and updates, more updates than installs, though.01:13
freemOf course I can setup some hack, but I wondered if there is a cleaner way :)01:13
gnarfacenothing i've heard of, not even with preseeding01:16
gnarfacenothing that would be universally applicable to all packages anyway.  i'm sure one or two of them might be able to be effectively disabled from their dpkg-reconfigure panels, but that would be rare01:17
freemok Thanks01:17
gnarfacealso, automating that would still be harder than calling update-rc.d in a loop01:18
gnarfacea shockingly large amount of the time, a simple bash script is actually the best choice01:18
gnarfaceit never looks that way until you start doing it even when it's not though01:19
freemwell, I practice my bourne skill on a regular basis, so I see what you mean01:19
stiltrYou might be able to do something like mv /etc/init.d/pkg /etc/init.d/pkg-noauto and use dpkg --path-exclude /etc/init.d. Or you could use dpkg --pre-invoke to patch out the update-rc.d part of postinst. s/update-rc.d/#update-rc.d/ or something like that?01:35
stiltrfreem: ^^01:35
chapolinanybody can help me with the sound please...everytime i reboot i lost it...01:38
chapolini am a long time user of slackware...little experience with debian like distros01:39
gnarfacechapolin: i might be able to help, if you can tell me what you do to get it working every time first01:39
chapolinman...i do so much things and suddenly it works...i could not tell one single thing01:39
chapolinmy card is recognized01:40
gnarfaceinteresting, but that doesn't give us enough to go on really01:40
gnarfacewhat card is it?01:40
chapolinthe pulseaudio plugin is the one who does not get it01:40
chapolin00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH HD Audio01:40
gnarfaceoh01:40
gnarfacealright01:41
gnarfacewell, first you gotta narrow it down between alsa and pulseaudio01:41
chapolinin alsamixer she appears...but without sound01:41
stiltrSo ALSA always recognizes it after a reboot?01:41
chapolinyes01:41
chapolinbut not pulseaudio01:41
chapolinthe pulseaudio plugin works just fine in slackware01:41
chapolinbut in devuan when i open it the app doesnt even are loaded01:42
chapolinso i use pulseaudio --start01:42
chapolinand then pulseaudio get my sennheiser headphone amp01:42
chapolinand hdmi audio by one of my monitors01:42
chapolinbut no realtek01:43
chapolinand suddenly she appears01:43
gnarfaceso maybe pulseaudio just isn't starting automatically for your user, but once you start it manually everything works fine?01:43
chapolinno no01:43
chapolini started it but without luck01:43
gnarfacehmmm01:43
chapolinthen i keep unloading and loading and eventually works01:43
fsmithredI've seen PA fail to connect if there's no audio apps open01:43
fsmithredand then work correctly if an audio app is open01:44
chapolinyou mean if i have some source playing audio the daemon got it?01:44
gnarfacechapolin: i would like you to do a test for me while it's "not working:"  speaker-test -c 2 -t wav -D hw01:44
fsmithredyeah, try opening a music or video app and then open, um01:45
fsmithredshit01:45
chapolinthe last time the sound magically started to work...but no volume control...not in alsamixer nor pulseaudio01:45
fsmithredthe PA volume control thingy01:45
gnarfacepavucontrol01:45
fsmithredpavucontrol01:45
fsmithredthanks01:45
chapolinspeaker-test 1.1.801:45
chapolinPlayback device is hw01:45
chapolinStream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 2 channels01:45
chapolinWAV file(s)01:45
chapolinPlayback open error: -16,Device or resource busy01:45
gnarfacesuspicious01:46
chapolinno shit01:46
chapolinits driving me crazy01:46
gnarfacesomething already grabbed it, fsmithred might be onto something01:46
fsmithredlsof might know something01:46
gnarfaceyea01:46
gnarfaceor fuser?01:46
gnarfacei think they'd both get you the information01:47
chapolinjesus...this lsof is a mess...what can i grep here?01:47
fsmithredgrep pulse, snd01:47
fsmithreddunno01:48
fsmithredalsa?01:48
chapolinstill a lot of info01:48
chapolinif i paste it here it will be a flood01:48
fsmithredno01:48
gnarfaceshould be some alsa devices in /dev/snd, see any programs opening something in there?01:48
fsmithredbot will bounce you01:48
chapolinive grepped alsa and pulse01:49
chapolinlet me loog01:49
chapolinlook01:49
gnarfacewhen i start playing a mp3 here without pulseaudio anyway, i see the program directly access /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p and /dev/snd/controlC001:50
gnarface(in addition to the expected .so files)01:50
chapolinby-id    controlC0  controlC2  hwC2D0    pcmC0D0p  pcmC0D2c  pcmC1D0p  pcmC2D3p  pcmC2D8p  seq01:51
chapolinby-path  controlC1  hwC0D0     pcmC0D0c  pcmC0D1p  pcmC1D0c  pcmC1D1p  pcmC2D7p  pcmC2D9p  timer01:51
chapolinthis is what i have in /dev/snd01:51
gnarfaceyea, that's completely expected.  but lsof should tell you what is accessing them at the moment.  if there's no audio playing, there shouldn't be ANYTHING accessing them01:51
chapolinyeah01:51
fsmithreddid you edit the autostart file for PA?01:52
chapolini see them processes in lsof...i am playing some youtube channel and there is a lot of firefox processes calling drivers from /dev/snd01:52
chapolinfsmithred, no01:52
gnarfacechapolin: kerblam, there's your smoking gun then01:52
chapolini didnt edit nothing01:53
gnarfacechapolin: stop firefox then try the speaker-test again01:53
fsmithredoh, there's a line that needs to be commented or uncommented01:53
fsmithredthis is beowulf, right?01:53
gnarfacechapolin: (additionally, and i don't know how this could have escaped notice, but youtube channels definitely count as "something playing audio")01:53
chapolinspeaker-test 1.1.801:53
chapolinPlayback device is hw01:53
chapolinStream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 2 channels01:53
chapolinWAV file(s)01:53
chapolinPlayback open error: -16,Device or resource busy01:53
gnarfacehmmm.  this is beowulf, right?01:54
chapolineven with firefox out of the way still something is grabbing the resource01:54
chapolinyes01:54
fsmithred - If you have no sound, make sure the following line in01:54
fsmithred   /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented01:54
gnarfacei did have an issue after upgrading one of these systems where pulseaudio wasn't starting right for all the users.  turned out to be something i did wrong with the lightdm install but i forget what exactly.01:54
gnarfacebut that user wouldn't have audio because lightm was expecting pulse to be present somehow?  dunno, might also have been related to KDE, i'm not the primary user of that system01:55
chapolinautospawn=no01:55
chapolinshould i comment it?01:55
fsmithredyeah, comment that line01:55
chapolini am using xfce for what is worth01:55
fsmithredok, good01:55
fsmithredthat's the default, so we know it better01:56
chapolinit says clearly if i am not using systemd i should comment it01:56
fsmithredcomment out that sucker01:56
chapolinshould i reboot?01:56
fsmithredI did it in the live01:56
fsmithredno01:56
fsmithredmaybe log out and in, or do 'init 1'01:57
chapolinbe back in a min01:57
fsmithredok01:57
fsmithredmy recollection is that killing PA is nearly impossible, but I guess they changed that.01:58
chapolinjesus christ02:01
chapolinthat line02:01
chapolini aged 30 years because of her02:01
chapolinsystemd comes to haunt even when you are trying to hide02:01
chapolinthank you very much guys02:02
chapolina simple logout was enough :D02:02
chapolinand a comment02:02
chapolinthank you fsmithred and gnarface02:07
gnarfaceno problem chapolin, glad you got it working02:07
chapolinthe no systemd people are very nice02:07
chapolin:D02:07
gnarfacewe all remember what it was like before02:08
fsmithred:)02:08
chapolinthe only thing i know is the number of cves related to systemd02:08
fsmithredread the release notes. There are a few other weird little things like this one.02:08
fsmithredhow do you keep track of them???02:09
chapolinand slackware is not getting it...but i am liking the apt tools02:09
chapolinalready only 3 distros to my knowledge that not stick to that shit02:09
fsmithredyou might like the huge repository, too02:09
chapolinyeah02:10
chapolinthis is really good02:10
chapolinbut i miss building tarballs02:10
fsmithredlearn to make deb packages02:11
stiltrNothing stopping you from building your own tarballs. haha02:11
buZzfsmithred: man, i wish02:12
chapolinyeah...i am on that as we speak02:12
buZzthat stuff is magic to me :P02:12
chapolinhaueuhaehu02:12
fsmithredme too, buzz02:12
stiltrIt's a real pain at first, but once you get it sorted out it's not too bad.02:12
stiltrIf you aren't planning to get them into the repos, it's considerably simpler.02:12
fsmithredyeah, I know02:13
stiltrThat first apt install my-package is pretty magical though. haha02:14
buZz:)02:14
buZzwell, at least i'm getting merged in code commits02:14
stiltrAlso a great feeling. :)02:15
justmakeitworkhello guys, I noticed a few bugs that I was able to fix but that may give new users a lot of frustration... this is from the 3.6 gb offline 'cdrom' install 1) user is not in the sudoers file, fixed by editing /etc/sodoers 2) after install the Cdrom repo is not disabled and caused an error where it asks for the next cd in the middle of using apt-get, fixed by commenting out appropriate lines in /etc/apt/sources.list 3)02:16
justmakeitworkthe pulse audio isn't working properly, fixed by commenting out 'autospawn-no' in /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf02:16
buZz1) isnt a bug02:16
buZz2) is normal behaviour aswell02:17
buZz3) might be a bug? not sure02:17
justmakeitworklol02:17
buZzi tend to avoid pulse audio02:17
justmakeitworkhow are they not bugs, they stop the system working properly02:17
buZznope02:17
justmakeitworkare you always root?02:18
buZzadding users to sudo is not default behaviour02:18
chapolinstiltr, That first apt install my-package is pretty magical though. haha02:18
chapolinit sure is02:18
buZzand installing from source X will add that to apt sources.list02:18
chapolinim building a .deb of calibre 4.99 whit all the python3 modules02:19
chapolinbut without my news channel it was driving me insane02:19
chapolinhehe02:19
stiltroh hey justmakeitwork, did you get a chance to try out the obs-studio backport?02:19
chapolinthe official repo calibre is all fucked up...with libs from p3 and p202:19
justmakeitwork'cdrom' sources should be commented out automatically after install02:19
stiltrchapolin: Sounds like a mess...02:20
chapolinbuZz, i tend to avoid pulseaudio aswell...but i cant find a alsa plugin for xfce02:21
justmakeitworknot yet stiltr, although I saw the last recommendations and saved them02:21
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: usually that happens if you didn't finish configuring networking during install, i think02:21
buZzchapolin: what does that mean, why does a window manager need to make sound?02:21
stiltrjustmakeitwork: No worries. I was just curious. :)02:21
chapolinand i already have 30 terminals at the same time to open one more for managing volume02:21
justmakeitworkgnarface, networking was enabled02:22
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: around here, bugs due to systemd usually get fixed, but the bugs that are not related to systemd that the debian people are just living with, we mostly just live with too02:22
chapolinthe slackware current work flawlessly with pulseaudio from the get go02:22
chapolinstiltr, i didnt get it...what seen to be a mess?02:23
chapolincalibre with the p3 modules?02:23
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: if you want to pursue this, first make sure you have the latest version of that disk, then make sure the debian equivalent *doesn't* do it, then if you file a bug report it will get taken seriously here (not necessarily actually fixed or addressed, but at least taken seriously).  if the debian version does it too though you're gonna get more traction reporting it upstream... they have way more people02:24
stiltrchapolin: Yeah, the py2/3 libs in calibre. Sorry, should have been clearer.02:24
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: but, and this is important, that all sounded like expected behavior to me02:24
chapolinno...you were clear...but theres other people talking and cut the line of tought02:25
chapolincalibre 4.99 its only p3 modules02:25
chapolinno more p2 and p302:25
chapolinbut the solution is building from git repositories02:25
chapolinand i want to make a .deb to send to devuan developers02:25
chapolini really like calibre02:26
justmakeitworkOK gnarface, I guess I am just dumb but I think a newer user could use that information02:26
justmakeitworkespecially the pulseaudio issue02:26
chapolinand i think more people should get it working ok...since this year p2 will be out02:26
stiltrchapolin: 4.99 is in ceres. Probably easier to backport. It'll handle all the deb stuff for you.02:26
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: i agree completely that it isn't fair, i'm just trying to help you understand the economics of the situation before you get too emotionally invested02:27
chapolinaye...its not giving me more work than i thougth it would02:27
justmakeitworkI'll make a post on the forum maybe lol, I just want to make it easier for others02:27
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: that's a great idea02:27
chapolinis there an bug report email system on devuan so i can subscribe?02:28
chapolini love debugging02:29
gnarfacewell there's http://bugs.devuan.org/02:29
gnarfacei don't know if the reports go out on a mailing list or not02:29
chapolinbut there is a mailing list?02:29
gnarfacethere is a mailing list, but i don't know what's on it02:29
chapolinok...i will look at it02:30
gnarfacemailing lists are linked to here: https://devuan.org/os/community02:30
gnarfacelooks like there's 3 of them actually02:30
buZzi'm on the DNG one, its kinda nice, not really devuanonly though02:31
chapolinyeah...three of them...the devuan-dev is what i was looking for02:37
chapolinwe should help as much as we can...otherwise systemd will be inevitable02:37
chapolinand thats when our beloved os will become microsoftsized02:38
chapolingod forbid02:38
chapolina lot of news lately saying steam is investing tons of money in linux to run steam games02:39
buZzIBMized you mean? :P02:39
fsmithredjustmakeitwork, the pulseaudio issue is covered in the release notes02:39
buZzchapolin: what do you mean news :P you can see it right on steam02:39
chapolinyeah buZz02:39
fsmithredpretty close to the top02:39
buZz1% of players 24/7 are running linux02:39
buZzthats about 0.2M ppl02:39
buZzalso dxvk and proton are amazing stuff02:40
chapolinyeah buZz ...but looks like they are seeing some potential to detrone microsoft in this battle02:40
buZzand over 50% of top500 games on steam have native linux version02:40
buZzhave for over 3 years now, i think02:40
chapolinspecially with this very easy distros02:40
chapolincoming everyday02:40
buZzsteamos? thats pretty dead02:40
buZzthere is #steamlug , fyi02:41
chapolinno no02:41
chapolinnot steamos02:41
chapolinits some kind of partnership to increase the number of people using steam under linux distros02:41
chapolini will look in my reasearch os to grab some links to show to you...microsoft did something that they dont like and they are turning to linux with all their cards02:42
chapolinits something "new"02:42
chapolinthis year resolution kind of new02:42
chapolininstead of reviving steam os they are working with fedora/redhat team to get all games transitioned02:43
chapolinwith my hardware i have at least 10% more fps in slackware02:44
chapolindevuan i didnt install yet02:44
chapolindoom eternal i run at 250fps in 4k02:44
chapolinin slackware...and 120 in windows02:44
gnarfacechapolin: that's actually old news in internet years.  the steam package is in the non-free section of the repo.  this was all fallout from a rumor that microsoft would discontinue directx in windows 10 that turned out to be completely unfounded.  damage done anyway.02:45
chapolingnarface, yes...for internet news its old...but this year things got in 6th gear as far as i know02:46
gnarfacechapolin: oh i think they were also going to try to force all publishers to use their store as an exclusive sales gateway, which would have put most of them in direct violation of pre-existing contracts with activision, EA, and valve02:46
buZzfyi, higher fps on linux 'windows emulated' games is not uncommon02:46
gnarfacechapolin: and nvidia was caught nerfing their linux driver at the same time, but was unhappy with microsoft for stuff related to announced win10 api changes too, and projected effects on future sales02:46
buZzeven in stuff like GTA502:47
gnarfacechapolin: so they were able to light a fire under everyone by getting nvidia to stop making tf2 suck in linux :)02:47
chapolinbuZz, im not talking about windows emulated games...im talking about native games02:47
buZzthats cool, i'm just saying02:47
onefangThink you have strayed off topic.02:47
chapolinwindows emulated in my experience its about 10% increase02:48
gnarfacealright, we're off topic and it's partially my fault.  but i'll help anyone get steam working if they want it02:48
chapolinbut natively build games is far more than this02:48
buZzgnarface: barely anything beside 'apt install steam' needed? :D02:48
buZzprovided you have non-free enabled02:48
gnarfacebuZz: that's all it should take in a fair world but there's a bunch of corner cases depending on your video hardware02:48
chapolinbuZz, i have non free enabled by default in devuan...its not normal?02:49
buZzwell, depends on how long your neckbeard is02:49
chapolinhuaeuheauhaeuheauh02:49
gnarfacebuZz: (getting steam itself working is that easy, but it isn't capable of fixing the driver/opengl setup, which is often wrong by default)02:49
buZzah yes, totally02:49
chapolinjesus...neckbeard no pls02:49
chapolin*no neckberard pls02:50
buZzmaybe someday nouveaux will work fast enough ;002:50
gnarfacei hear it is if you have a gtx 78002:50
buZzchapolin: dont worry, with all the facemasks, you can tell now anyway02:50
gnarfacepretty much only that one, the gtx78002:50
chapolinhuaehueauhaeuaheuheauhaeuh02:50
buZzhehe02:50
chapolinthat so true02:50
buZzgtx1060 here02:50
chapolini have a 2080ti02:50
gnarfaceno hope of either of those working in nouveau, probably ever02:50
buZzthats fine02:51
chapolinand work flawlessly with official nvidia drivers02:51
buZzactually it does work sorta02:51
buZzjust not really fast02:51
gnarfacethe hardware acceleration parts of the 900 and later series cards require cryptographically signed firmware and nvidia isn't coughing up the keys despite promising years ago they would02:51
chapolinthe only thing i noticed with the nvidia drivers is a lot o tearing under scrolling in firefox02:51
chapolinor chromium for that mather02:52
chapolinin slackware aswell02:52
gnarfacethere are actually plenty of good games on steam that would be fine on modern hardware even with software rendering02:53
gnarfacethey're not the ones people have heard of though02:53
gnarfacein beowulf it should be fairly straightforward now but for ascii you would require the kernel and nvidia drivers from backports for a lot of the games02:54
gnarfacealso same goes for recent AMD video cards in that respect02:54
chapolinyeah...i have tried ascii one week before the beowulf release...worked bad enough to get slackware again...lucky for me a few days later beowulf released02:55
chapolinbut slackware with 5.*.* kernels works even better02:55
gnarfacedespite lower requirements of steam itself, a bunch of games require nvidia 340.xx or later drivers, or mesa i think like 19.x or 20.x something like that02:55
buZzthank god for backports :)02:57
chapolinaye...thats one problem i came across...unfortunately for us the binary nature of nvidia drivers get in the way...if was open source a few modified lines should solve this02:57
chapolini am using the debian handbook to study about .deb packages, is there something more compreensive about the subject?02:59
gnarfaceyes02:59
gnarfacehttps://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/03:00
gnarface(i saw someone link a presumably more streamlined devuan version of this recently but i didn't save the link)03:00
chapolinthanks again...very nice community here...happy with that...03:01
chapolinnot a problem...i will do a more comprehensive research today...all weekend to work things out03:01
gnarfaceif you just want to build some packages skip forward to chapter 603:02
gnarfacethey designed that guide as some sort of sadistic litmus test03:02
chapolinok...i will look into that right now.03:02
chapolinhauehueahuea03:02
stiltrYeah, it's quite a read... haha03:03
chapolin"sadistic" its a really real way to describe linux guides03:03
gnarfacefsmithred: do you have that link to the devuan new maintainer's guide?03:05
fsmithredyeah, one sec03:05
gnarfacegoogle insists that i must mean the debian one :(03:05
stiltrOh nice. I'd be interested in that as well.03:05
stiltrAfter enough times of saying "no I don't mean debian" google usually gets the message.03:06
chapolinthe official DEBIAN repositories do not work with devuan right? the systemd deps will get in the way right?03:07
fsmithredhttps://gitea.devuan.dev/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers03:08
gnarfacechapolin: ^ here it is03:08
fsmithredthat link just changed. It might change back to what it was before. Not sure.03:08
gnarfacechapolin: (and yea, don't use the debian repos.  it'll look like it works initially but systemd can sneak in and make a mess)03:08
chapolinfsmithred, open already and bookmarked03:09
fsmithredgit is in the process of being moved03:09
chapolingnarface, yeah...i suspected that would be a problem03:09
stiltrThanks for the link fsmithred!03:12
fsmithredyw03:12
chapolinyeah...thanks for the link fsmithred...very good read03:12
justmakeitworkTried using amesser's build instructions from yesterday https://pastebin.com/qFSx4sTe , hunted down dependencies until there was only one, but it would not install libsimde-dev https://postimg.cc/75RXQ48H ... I seem to recall a similar thing happening when I tried following the Debian build instructions on the obs-studio site04:02
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: looks like something weird might be going on with the package right now04:15
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: it was in ceres as of this time yesterday but i'm not seeing it there right now04:16
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: it still shows up on packages.debian.org but not on http://packages.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt04:17
gnarfacejustmakeitwork: my best guess is they're doing something to it upstream that required temporarily removing it to replace it or fix something else, or something like that04:17
justmakeitwork0.0.1 for life :-)04:27
stiltrjustmakeitwork: Did the debs not work?04:38
justmakeitworkit didn't get that far, if you look at the postimg above, I took care of about 20 dependencies that it kept getting hung up on except for the last one, libsimde-dev04:41
stiltrI posted a link to the backported debs. I had to backport libsimde to get it to compile, but you don't need it to run.04:42
stiltrhttps://stiles-engineering.com/obs-backport/04:43
stiltrIf you want.04:43
justmakeitworkI was just thinking that too stiltr, should I add backports to sources.list and see if apt finds it?04:44
stiltrIt's not an official backport, so it won't be in beowulf-backports. It's just something I did the other day when you mentioned it.04:45
stiltrIf you want to do it yourself, you can follow the steps here https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation04:46
stiltrYou'll have to create and install a deb for libsimde-dev before you can do one for obs.04:47
justmakeitworkoh cool, I'll have to try that04:47
stiltrOh, I think I had to change a dependency in libsimde. I think it was debconf to 12 instead of 13.04:48
stiltrOh, looks like I still have the libsimde deb if you want it.04:49
justmakeitworkdbuilder kept complaining that it was expecting obs-studio... ...tar.gz files(see the postimg link above), does that matter?04:50
stiltrNah, the .tar.gz is fine. It's that debhelper-compat that's blocking you.04:51
stiltrYou need to change the debian/control file to depend on 12 instead of 13.04:51
stiltrBuild-Depends: debhelper-compat (=12),04:52
justmakeitworkthe numbers referring to os versions?04:52
stiltrIt's a package. debhelper-12.1.1 is the latest in beowulf.04:54
stiltr13 is in ceres, so the ceres package depends on it, but it'll work with 12.04:54
stiltrOddly libsimde took considerably longer to compile than obs-studio did. At least for me.04:55
systemdleteWonderful.  I've got me a zombie owned by process 1.  The only way to get rid of it is to reboot... how did this happen?   The process, "Web Content" is spawned by firefox-esr (latest version).  I don't think I've run into this in a long, long time!  Is there an alternative to rebooting the host?09:48
systemdleteAccording to the ps(1) man page, zombies will be killed by the parent if it receives a SIGCHLD.  I tried that, on both the zombie and on init(!).09:48
systemdletes/will be killed/will be cleaned up/09:49
systemdleteThis is still ascii, btw.  I haven't upgraded to beowulf yet, and may not for a bit.09:49
systemdleteIs init not working on devua---   init.  Init.  INIT!!!  Is it possible that somehow, some way, surgically removing the cancer from the body Linux has not caused an undesired outcome?   IDK.  I haven't studied it that deeply myself.10:00
systemdleteanyway, looks like reboot is my ONLY option.  If I ever want ps to work ever again.10:00
systemdletePs and htop hang now.  Even though they are not the offending process.10:01
crashoverrideis the offensive process PID1?10:01
systemdleteno.  It's a defunct "Web Content" process, spawned by firefox-esr (see above)10:01
crashoverrideyeah sorry I am on a small screen with a flaky connection.10:02
kiwiiHi which devuan equals to deb910:34
gnarfacekiwii: ascii10:40
gnarfacekiwii: (devuan 2)10:41
kiwiiDo you use beowulf if yes would you try install xtables-addons-common10:42
kiwiiIs it available or no10:42
gnarfacekiwii: i think it's not available in beowulf currently.  i'm only seeing it in ascii and jessie:  pkginfo.devuan.org10:43
gnarfacekiwii: ^ you can search here10:43
kiwiiThabks10:43
gnarfacekiwii: according to packages.debian.org it isn't in debian 10 either10:44
gnarfacekiwii: this might be a recent change10:45
systemdletethere is an update for firefox-esr... hoping maybe this might fix it.  (Still getting zombies, but after reboot, they do eventually die when I kill the browser).11:04
tomtasticsystemdlete You might be able to kill -9 a defunct (zombie) process12:07
tomtasticsystemdlete Solaris used to have 'preap' to reap the dead. There doesn't seem to be a comparable tool in Linux12:08
systemdletekill -9 has no effect on Zombies, sadly.12:11
systemdleteThere is ONLY one (1) solution:  Reboot.12:11
_william_which can also be saif for zombies shot in the head :)12:12
systemdleteThe main issue is not the zombie itself, but what it does to utilities like ps and htop -- they hang.12:12
_william_said12:12
systemdletethanks all12:12
gnarfacewell, there might be one other solution12:55
gnarfaceyou might be able to rm -rf /proc/$PID12:56
gnarfacesometimes that will work on zombies, it hink12:56
gnarface*i think12:56
tomtasticgnarface really?! Thats a new one on me13:22
yetimaybe a proc based PS just wont see them any more but they still are sticking in the system?13:48
yetido we still have that kernel-dada-stuructures ps?13:48
yetitrying to remember the name...13:49
gnarfacei don't really know14:02
yetijears (decades?) ago there were 2 PS and TOP flavours14:06
yetiy*14:06
yetithe old style thingy directly accessing the kernel process lists and the newer proc based (probably slooooower) one14:07
yetiin the early days of the proc based process tools I refused to use them because their overhead14:07
yetibut meanwhile I cannot even find them any more14:08
yetiditch the probably... the way thru proc IS slower and I saw the difference in top...14:08
yetithe cputime of top itself was less for the kernel-top14:09
* yeti misses the days when software needed to be resource friendly14:10
frabbitupgrade fromascii to beowulf seems problematic, even if u have a base system14:15
frabbitif tried that yesterday on my gaming rig and first it seemed fine, but after reboot and run apt update the system told me that there are packages that are hold back.14:16
frabbiti removed the packages wich apt wnated to remove and runned apt -f install, but that does nothing so i runned apt install and_all_hold_back_packages_here and that breaks the xserver as it seems14:18
frabbitit removed some x packages and i think alos some of the nvidia stuff i had to install to have my gc working14:19
frabbitim not willing to figure out why that was so messy (i just followed fan boys wiki) and will just setup a new system, but ive installed devuan ascii 2.1 on a computer for someone, just a few days before beowulf was released as stable and i dunno now how to handle that machine to upgrade it...14:20
frabbitthe first time i tried to upgrade to beowulf i did something wrong, but the second time, i did exactly what the wiki says14:21
frabbitand im sure on that system where is still ascii it will be the same (and there are even much more packages installed...)14:22
frabbitbut setting up that system again, this time with beowulf will be a mess... it took me 2 days to insall and configure that beginner system, so the person doesnt need to mess arrounsd with that and sure i have made backups from that configs, but it still sucks that i have to reinstall it now again, just ~ two weeks after fresh new install...14:23
frabbitoh and this -> 14:21 < frabbit> the first time i tried to upgrade to beowulf i did something wrong, but the second time, i did exactly what the wiki says <- was on two different macvhines btw14:25
frabbitbut both with ascii 2.114:26
frabbitalso it is a huge problem when the upgrade process will be that nasty in future releases...14:26
frabbiti would have to setup all the machines again i setup for others on every new release...14:27
frabbitbackup all the data including the configs and then making a fresh new install is not a proper way how beginners can maintain their systems...14:29
frabbitbut a propper way to steal my lifetime, cause im the one who needs to fix/repair/reinstall these systems then...14:30
fsmithredwould be good to figure out why you had such trouble. Most upgrades go smoothly.14:30
frabbitfsmithred: yeah i know14:31
frabbitbut i didnt made notices or something14:31
frabbiti just thought it would be smoothly... and that was a mistake i know now... =(14:31
bbpj10hi. I'm probably far from the first to have asked this but I can't find anything searchng the web so here goes: How long does each release (e.g. Beowulf) get supported? Until the Debian release it's based on goes into Debian LTS? Until it gets dropped from Debian LTS?14:34
frabbiton my system i still have ascii 2.1 here and after i get my ssd i will try to upgrade it too the way the wiki leads to, just to check if it will fail again. my productive machine has the same base but no nvidia stuff of course, therefor alot of other packages the gaming rig doesnt have14:34
frabbitbbpj10: i still get updates here for oldstable ascii 2.114:35
frabbitjust upgraded 4 packages or so in the last week14:35
bbpj10yeah, I wonder until when though.14:35
frabbitprobably when beowulf gets oldstable ascii will be dropped14:35
frabbitbut thers still oldoldstable i think14:36
frabbit*theres14:36
frabbitalso still upgrade introductiins from jessie to beowulf14:36
bbpj10Oldoldstable was released as a "LTS" in any case - not sure what LTS here means: it gets supported as long as iirc Jessie hasn't gone into ELTS?14:37
bbpj10I just don't know what that means for the later releases, none of which explicitly stated as "LTS" orr "non-LTS"14:37
frabbitLTS=Long Time Support14:38
frabbithm..14:38
bbpj10yeah, I just can't find exact info on *how* long14:38
frabbitim not interested in that term, isnt that a buntu thing?14:38
fsmithredyes, look at the debian LTS schedule. Jessie's end of life is this month.14:38
frabbitfsmithred: ah so i was right14:39
fsmithredhttps://wiki.debian.org/LTS14:39
frabbitso ascii will be supported till June 202214:39
frabbitfrom debian... what about devuan specific support?14:40
bbpj10fsmithred: So oldoldstable, whichw as an LTS, gets supported for that long (i.e. until 2 weeks in the future, I think?). Does the same go for ascii and beowulf, even though the term LTS doesn't appear in their release notes?14:40
fsmithredascii=stretch, beowulf=buster14:40
frabbityeah i know14:40
fsmithredexcept for about 200 packages, half of which are language packs14:40
bbpj10After all, they are based on Debian releases which, like Debian 8, will AFAIK get Debian LTS support as well14:41
frabbitbut arent there devuan specific packages that needs to be maintained by devuan devs?14:41
fsmithredyeah, if anything gets a security update, it will likely get ported to the devuan package14:42
bbpj10So would I be correct in saying that Ascii will get supported until 2022, and not until only e.g. later this year when Stretch presumably goes into LTS?14:42
fsmithredmain thing is kernel, and we don't touch that14:42
frabbitnice14:42
bbpj10and thus ascii won't go EOL until, if all goes as planned, 2022?14:43
frabbitbbpj10: as it seems14:43
frabbit=)14:43
frabbitbbpj10: u want to stay with ascii?14:43
fsmithredyeah, stretch goes to june 2022, so ascii will also be good until then14:43
bbpj10frabbit: no, I just don't like installing things with too short a time span between release and EOL14:44
frabbitbbpj10: me too14:44
frabbitbut three years or so is okay (to not forgot how to install a system xD)14:45
bbpj10Which in my case seems a bit irrational since my installs seem to rarely stay as my daily driver for...idk, maybe a couple of semesters? But a long life span does leave me sleeping better at night :p14:45
brocashelmwhat kernel is devuan beowulf currently on?15:38
Atari-Froschbrocashelm: :~$ uname -a15:40
Atari-FroschLinux seewasser 4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2 (2020-04-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux15:40
brocashelmnice15:43
tuxsvrloading from Beowulf netinstll. How can I had refractato it? Do I need a desktop loaded first? load refractainstaller and refractasnapshot?17:52
gnarfacewhat are you trying to do? refractasnapshot and refractainstaller are in the repos...17:54
gnarfacebut i don't know why you'd want them in the netinstall, they're for live images17:55
gnarfacei would assume you'd install them after you finished booting17:56
tuxsvrinstall the refracta after install. Terminal install, no desktop. What do I need to install? can I use apt?17:58
gnarfaceyes, you can use apt17:59
gnarfacelook for packages with refracta in the name18:00
tuxsvrno gui parts right?18:00
gnarfacei think the gui parts are optional18:02
gnarfacei could be wrong18:02
tuxsvrOK will try. Thanks18:03
fsmithredinstall refractainstaller-base and refractasnapshot-base18:06
fsmithredtuxsvr, ^^^18:06
fsmithredgnarface is right; the -gui packages are separate.18:06
tuxsvrThanks will try. Thanks for the help.18:19
masonI'm curious - Debian's shipped intel-microcode 3.20200609, but I'm not seeing that for Beowulf yet. Is this a known hiccough?18:22
masonRe: CVE-2020-0543, CVE-2020-0548, CVE-2020-054918:25
Dekkardso.. changing time/date on the live iso crashes the clock..19:29
xrogaanmason: are you sure it isn't being held back by debian?20:02
xrogaanmason: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/intel-microcode20:04
yeti3.20200609.2~deb10u1 in buster's security20:04
xrogaanit was just accepted into stable, like less than a day ago.20:04
xrogaanis it? I don't see that version.20:05
xrogaanProbably a propagation thing.20:05
xrogaanThey are updated daily, are they not?20:11
xrogaanmason: last update was today at 5am. you'll get the updated list tomorrow at the same hours. Probably.20:12
xrogaan> http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/beowulf-security/non-free/binary-amd64/20:12
registeredsodahow do I compile git software into devuan packages?20:28
registeredsodaany automake packages using the GNU make and ./configure process20:28
stiltrhttps://gitea.devuan.dev/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers/PackagingGuide.md20:30
masonxrogaan: Yeah, pretty sure it's not being held back in Debian given that I've installed it.22:07
masonI thought pulling to Devuan was every five minutes or somesuch.22:08
masonA thought I had was a sort of reverse of Amprolla - plugging Devuan packages into Debian instead of the reverse, making Devuan packages preffered with pinning. I might poke at that.22:10
masonbbiab22:11
MinceRhttps://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/978/yNlQWRM.jpg22:11
BjornnI'm installing opera, reinstall actually to see if I can get streaming videos to work on twitter, facebook, etc. I get this issue https://pastebin.com/NRcC5Bhw22:54
Bjornnbascially, to start in wants to install an older version of a driver -> libgbm1 (>= 17.1.0~rc2)is current but 13.0.6-1+b2 is to be installed22:55
Bjornnanyone familiar with this issue?22:56
BjornnI don't know exactly what this driver does22:57
BjornnI imagine it would impact other browsers?22:57
freemapt-get really?23:09
freemI mean... you add it to your sources, but how, then?23:09
freemBjornn: ^23:11
fsmithredBjornn, you need to have contrib in your sources to get pepperflash. You can get around the errors by adding '--no-install-recommends' to your apt-get command23:15
fsmithredI don't know where to get that other package - chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra is not in our repo23:16
fsmithredis flash really still out there? I haven't seen any in a long time.23:17
djphfsmithred: same23:24

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