| kreyren | So iiuc devuan is made to make openrc work with apt nicely only? There is no expected support for systemd? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| stiltr | devuan + systemd = debian... | 00:08 |
| kreyren | eh? O.o | 00:08 |
| buZz | rofl | 00:09 |
| buZz | are you trolling now kreyren ? | 00:09 |
| buZz | are you seriously suggesting putting in effort to destroy devuan for its own ideals? | 00:09 |
| kreyren | buZz, no i don't know the lore behind debianxdevuan | 00:09 |
| buZz | maybe read up then | 00:10 |
| kreyren | where | 00:10 |
| buZz | https://www.devuan.org/ | 00:10 |
| buZz | literally the first sentence there | 00:10 |
| buZz | ok, beside the headers ;D | 00:10 |
| kreyren | So i was right? Just Debian without systemd with support for openrc ? | 00:10 |
| kreyren | and no expected support for systemd ? | 00:11 |
| stiltr | Yes | 00:11 |
| buZz | there's some placeholders to prevent other stuff to break | 00:11 |
| buZz | and many stuff patched to prevent systemderp dependencies | 00:11 |
| kreyren | Why is it calling systemctl if /run/systemd/system is present then? O.o | 00:11 |
| buZz | lol | 00:11 |
| kreyren | because some of the packages are from debian? | 00:12 |
| buZz | most of the packages are from debian | 00:12 |
| kreyren | -> If i wanted to contribute make the downstream to use only openrc ? | 00:12 |
| buZz | thats not a legible sentence to me | 00:12 |
| kreyren | o.o | 00:12 |
| stiltr | Ideally it should support as many init systems as possible. | 00:13 |
| kreyren | stiltr, but devuan doesn't want to support systemd because that would make it into a debian? | 00:14 |
| buZz | nobody wants systemd here | 00:15 |
| kreyren | but support for as many init systems as possible is the set ethique ? | 00:15 |
| buZz | not because of debian but because of systemd | 00:15 |
| stiltr | kreyren: Correct. If you want to use systemd, there's really no reason not to use plain debian. | 00:15 |
| kreyren | stiltr, but if i wanted to use systemd on devuan it would be supported? | 00:16 |
| kreyren | alike is this made just to produce a higher quality code assuming that none sane likes systemd ? | 00:16 |
| stiltr | I wouldn't suggest trying to use systemd. The whole point of devuan is to cut that out. You probably could, but it certainly wouldn't be supported. | 00:17 |
| stiltr | Not sure I understand the other part. | 00:18 |
| kreyren | stiltr, i meant you said that none likes systemd here and that systemd woudn't be supported here, but that the downstream should support as many init systems as possible ideally? | 00:18 |
| kreyren | So why should i write a code that supports systemd on devuan? Just for code quality reasons to avoid unexpected behavior on unsupported system or in case debian is using the package? | 00:19 |
| kreyren | or to outsource the maintainance on debian by adding openrc support to their packages that are used on devuan? | 00:19 |
| stiltr | There's no point in supporting systemd specifically for a devuan package, but there are other init systems besides openrc as well. | 00:20 |
| kreyren | stiltr, so should i explicitely make the downstream to fail if systemd is detected? | 00:20 |
| stiltr | I don't see any need to do that, but I suppose you could if you wanted to. The only real requirement I know of is that you don't depend on systemd. | 00:21 |
| kreyren | stiltr, so if i am perfectionist who ideally wants to support everything i could make the downstream to support all available init systems including systemd and it would be welcomed in devuan? | 00:22 |
| stiltr | As far as I understand it. | 00:23 |
| kreyren | noted, thanks | 00:23 |
| stiltr | You would also be free to contribute said package to debian which would end up in devuan as well. | 00:23 |
| fsmithred | yes, that would not be a problem | 00:24 |
| fsmithred | as long as it does not require systemd, it will work | 00:24 |
| kreyren | i see, perfect then ^-^ | 00:24 |
| fsmithred | I have some code in either refractasnapshot or refractainstaller to deal with systemd, because I know people who use those tools in debian | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | we don't remove systemd service files from packages. There's no point. | 00:26 |
| buZz | good programs dont depend on init systems anyway :P | 00:26 |
| fsmithred | and we're happy when debian devs don't remove init scripts from packages. | 00:26 |
| kreyren | Also how would it affect devuan if i rewrote the whole debian to support both openrc and systemd? Would that just make devuan obsolete assuming that it would basically be a mirror copy of debian at that point? | 00:27 |
| fsmithred | lol, good luck | 00:27 |
| freem | kreyren: if you do so, may I formulate the request to separate the binary from the init scripts? | 00:28 |
| kreyren | fsmithred, ye impossible probably assuming how debian is addicted on systemd, but i was just curious~ | 00:28 |
| fsmithred | elogind is in debian, so that makes it easier to run debian without systemd | 00:29 |
| freem | this way, we could 1) install the binary and it's manpage without enabling it and 2) easily write init scripts for other init systems (and I could share the ones I use for runit) | 00:29 |
| buZz | kreyren: debian is over 60000 packages | 00:29 |
| freem | and yes ^ good luck with that :) | 00:29 |
| kreyren | tbh i am working on my package manager which i want to make to generate packages for apt on demand so in theory the logic could be adapted for that to make it feasable to rewrote those 600K packages~ | 00:30 |
| fsmithred | freem, do you know that runit will be a choice in the installer in the near future? | 00:30 |
| buZz | kreyren: if you just demonstrated how accurate you are, i feel for you | 00:30 |
| kreyren | buZz, currently not really usable i am rewriting that for 15th time and i am still not happy with it~ | 00:31 |
| freem | fsmithred: I know debian currently proses runit as an init choice | 00:31 |
| buZz | ah, also unable to read beside unable to parse :D | 00:31 |
| kreyren | it also has openrc but it's implemented as malware that breaks the system~ | 00:31 |
| freem | not sure for devuan, but I think the way init stuff is managed is... fragile? | 00:31 |
| fsmithred | freem, it's installable in devuan, too. But it will soon be a choice in the installer. | 00:31 |
| kreyren | (meaning debian has openrc in it's downstream as alternative init) | 00:32 |
| freem | good! Would there be a way to help? | 00:32 |
| fsmithred | probably, but I'm not sure what. | 00:32 |
| fsmithred | maybe people will need init scripts | 00:32 |
| freem | I already use a debian with only runit stuff after all, maybe I could contribute | 00:32 |
| fsmithred | and you have some to share | 00:32 |
| fsmithred | there are a few people in the community using runit | 00:33 |
| fsmithred | on dng mailing list and in forum | 00:33 |
| freem | but how is handled multiple init scripts? All bundled in the same deb? | 00:33 |
| fsmithred | I assume there will be more when they are presented with a screen during the install | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | I don't know | 00:34 |
| freem | relying on the horrible post/pre-rm/inst scripts? | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | or just putting them in different directories, maybe | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | the openrc implementation uses sysvinit scripts | 00:34 |
| fsmithred | and I know people are working on changing that | 00:35 |
| freem | de deb archives can of course do that, but debian relies a lot on those scripts, makes things way too hard imo. But, it's my opinion only. | 00:35 |
| freem | notably, I have a working system to link generic log/run files. It's not rocket science, ofc | 00:37 |
| freem | http://paste.debian.net/1152253/ | 00:38 |
| freem | it's this. It works when used as a simple symlink, and I've actually used it on 2 hardware archs and more than 200 systems. | 00:39 |
| golinux | Why is this discussion on this channel? It is not a support question. | 00:44 |
| freem | sorry. Is there is a better place? Could you show it to me? | 00:44 |
| golinux | I was thinking of kreyren's blathering about systemd | 00:45 |
| freem | oh... | 00:45 |
| kreyren | eh? O.o | 00:45 |
| * kreyren is focusing on writing the code and doesn't read the chats~ | 00:46 | |
| golinux | maybe devuan-dev. | 00:46 |
| golinux | Though no one here is really interested in putting any energy into systemd | 00:47 |
| freem | actually, I think devuan is more interested in staying as close as possible to debian, right? So, except for not installing the systemd service files and the systemd dependency (which is still a useful work, don't take me wrong) I think the goal is to not change stuff? | 00:48 |
| freem | am I wrong? | 00:49 |
| fsmithred | pretty much right | 00:49 |
| fsmithred | provide debian without systemd is the main idea | 00:49 |
| freem | but, it still claims "init independency", so, I think there is a huge problem with how it's done | 00:50 |
| freem | pardon me if it's presomptuous, I undertand the many work you already did | 00:50 |
| golinux | systemd does not play well with others. And debian devs are intentionally dismantling non-systemd support. | 00:51 |
| golinux | But this is not a topic for this channel | 00:52 |
| freem | #devuan-dev you said, then? And I'm not talking about systemd anyway. | 00:53 |
| specing | they should adopt dnf and become a proper derivative of centos | 00:53 |
| golinux | #devuan-dev is where development happens. systemd is a dean horse here. Please stop beating it. | 00:59 |
| golinux | dean > dead | 00:59 |
| MinceR | ok, who appointed a horse as Dean? :> | 00:59 |
| golinux | My fumbling fingers | 01:00 |
| kreyren | What networking backend should i be using on devuan? I currently have these packages installed http://ix.io/2pib and tor returns http://dpaste.com/14XWCYQ | 01:06 |
| crhylove | Still can't get this beowulf install to change my default audio output device. | 01:08 |
| crhylove | I can change the output device in each app, but I can't use the volume knobs anywhere. | 01:09 |
| crhylove | ALSA. | 01:09 |
| kreyren | (tor is grabbed from upstream designed for debian buster) | 01:10 |
| * kreyren is rebooting sent me a `/msg MemoServ kreyren send msg` plz | 01:11 | |
| * kreyren_ is back | 01:12 | |
| rrq | crhylove: in ~/.asoundrc: defaults.ctl.card 1 ; defaults.pcm.card 1 ; defaults.timer.card 1 ; | 01:16 |
| rrq | or was it "2" rather than "1"? | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | somebody was 2 | 01:22 |
| crhylove | rrq, Thanks! Will try now. | 01:23 |
| crhylove | Yeah, 2. | 01:23 |
| crhylove | Where do I find .asoundrc? | 01:24 |
| kreyren | ping | 01:25 |
| crhylove | pong | 01:25 |
| kreyren | crhylove, thanks | 01:25 |
| crhylove | yw | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | crhylove, in your home directory | 01:26 |
| fsmithred | that's what the ~/ means | 01:26 |
| kreyren | What networking backend should i be using on devuan assuming that tor fails with http://ix.io/2pif and my packages installed are http://ix.io/2pig ? | 01:26 |
| * kreyren assumes that his previous message wasn't sent since he wasn't identified~ | 01:26 | |
| crhylove | fsmithred, Yeah, it didn't exist so I created it.... Gonna reboot to see if it worked. BRB | 01:27 |
| crhylove | Do I need to chown or chmod it? | 01:28 |
| crhylove | right now it's root:root | 01:28 |
| fsmithred | oh | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | should be owned by user | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | chown you:you .asoundrc | 01:29 |
| crhylove | Got it.... | 01:30 |
| crhylove | chmod? I just 777.... *shrugs* | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | no | 01:30 |
| crhylove | 666? | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | I would have left it alone | 01:31 |
| fsmithred | probably 644 | 01:31 |
| MinceR | ⛧ | 01:31 |
| crhylove | OK, 644'ed it. BRB | 01:31 |
| crhylove | That did not fix it. | 01:34 |
| crhylove | However, now I have a speaker icon in the systray. | 01:34 |
| crhylove | But I still can't switch outputs in the sound preferences. | 01:35 |
| crhylove | what's the command for sound preferences? Maybe if I run it as root? | 01:35 |
| crhylove | Google brings up pulse audio.... I'd rather not though. | 01:37 |
| crhylove | ALSA ftw. | 01:37 |
| crhylove | https://pasteboard.co/JdgMiXS.png | 01:38 |
| crhylove | https://pasteboard.co/JdgNA9Z.png | 01:42 |
| fsmithred | alsamixer? | 01:42 |
| crhylove | Here's the area where the Output can be selected, but doesn't keep. | 01:42 |
| crhylove | Unable to locate package alsamixer | 01:42 |
| fsmithred | install alsa-utils | 01:43 |
| kreyren | Resolved the tor issue by invoking `ip link set lo up` since it was refusing to bind to 192.168.0.0 | 01:44 |
| crhylove | package: alsamixergui.... | 01:44 |
| fsmithred | yeah, if you want to mouse it | 01:45 |
| crhylove | ALSA lib control.c:1271:(snd_ctl_open_conf) type is not defined | 01:45 |
| fsmithred | as root: | 01:45 |
| fsmithred | lsmod |grep snd | 01:45 |
| crhylove | That gives me the big list. | 01:46 |
| fsmithred | ok, good | 01:46 |
| fsmithred | and every item has 'snd' in it? | 01:46 |
| crhylove | Yeah, except the last two: soundcore and usbcore | 01:47 |
| fsmithred | ok | 01:47 |
| fsmithred | and you don't have pulseaudio installed? | 01:48 |
| crhylove | don't think so..... | 01:48 |
| crhylove | https://pasteboard.co/JdgRMVA.png | 01:52 |
| fsmithred | I can't see those | 01:54 |
| systemdlete | lspci shows me that the address referred to in the error messages (the ones re WARN TRB event) is an ASMedia usb 3.0 hub. So I disconnected both devices from that hub's ports (and connected them to other, 2.0 ports). Waiting to see if those errors appear again. | 02:34 |
| crhylove | Argh. Got Alsamixergui to work, and still can't change sound cards. | 03:32 |
| tuxd3v | crhylove, what is the output of this? | 03:36 |
| tuxd3v | dpkg -l|grep -Ei "(alsa|sound)" | 03:36 |
| crhylove | ii alsa-utils 1.1.8-2 amd64 Utilities for configuring and using ALSA | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii alsamixergui 0.9.0rc2-1-10 amd64 graphical soundcard mixer for ALSA soundcard driver | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libasound2:amd64 1.1.8-1 amd64 shared library for ALSA applications | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libasound2-data 1.1.8-1 all Configuration files and profiles for ALSA drivers | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libasound2-plugins:amd64 1.1.8-1 amd64 ALSA library additional plugins | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libcanberra-gtk3-0:amd64 0.30-7 amd64 GTK+ 3.0 helper for playing widget event sounds with libcanberra | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libcanberra-gtk3-module:amd64 0.30-7 amd64 translates GTK3 widgets signals to event sounds | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libcanberra0:amd64 0.30-7 amd64 simple abstract interface for playing event sounds | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii libsoundtouch1:amd64 2.1.2+ds1-1 amd64 Sound stretching library | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii pulseaudio 12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64 PulseAudio sound server | 03:39 |
| gnarface | ugh, you shouldn't paste more than 3 lines into channel or you could be kicked by the anti-spam bot | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii pulseaudio-utils 12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64 Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii qasmixer 0.21.0-1.1 amd64 ALSA mixer for the desktop | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii qjackctl 0.5.0-1 amd64 User interface for controlling the JACK sound server | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii sound-icons 0.1-6 all Sounds for speech enabled applications | 03:39 |
| crhylove | ii sound-theme-freedesktop 0.8-2 all freedesktop.org sound theme | 03:39 |
| crhylove | I was posting screenshots earlier, but fsmithred couldn't read them.... | 03:39 |
| crhylove | tuxd3v, | 03:40 |
| tuxd3v | crhylove, use https://paste.debian.net/ | 03:40 |
| tuxd3v | for pasting code | 03:40 |
| fsmithred | yeah, please | 03:41 |
| fsmithred | no javascript there | 03:41 |
| crhylove | https://paste.debian.net/1152262/ | 03:41 |
| fsmithred | is pavucontrol installed? | 03:41 |
| crhylove | Yeah, but it says "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait..." forever | 03:42 |
| fsmithred | try opening an audio app first and then start pavucontrol | 03:42 |
| tuxd3v | that could mean pulkseaudio is not running.. | 03:43 |
| crhylove | I have a bunch of audio apps open. | 03:43 |
| fsmithred | yeah, the config file is the next thing to check | 03:43 |
| crhylove | I can select the proper hardware on a per app basis. | 03:43 |
| fsmithred | and does it work? | 03:44 |
| crhylove | But I can't change audio devices in firefox, for instance. | 03:44 |
| crhylove | Yeah, for Hydrogen, OBS, Ardour, Audacious, and Audacity. | 03:44 |
| crhylove | But not other less audio focused apps. | 03:44 |
| tuxd3v | I also can't change them, what is your default DE | 03:44 |
| tuxd3v | ? | 03:44 |
| crhylove | Mate | 03:44 |
| fsmithred | and you got a way to change the default card, but I think that was for a pure alsa system | 03:44 |
| crhylove | In Sound Preferences, I select the output, it reverts back to the old one immediately. | 03:45 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if that works with PA | 03:45 |
| crhylove | What's the CLI command for opening sound preferences? | 03:45 |
| crhylove | maybe if I run it as root.... | 03:45 |
| fsmithred | what sound preferences? | 03:46 |
| crhylove | right click on the speaker in the system tray | 03:46 |
| fsmithred | you want a mixer? | 03:46 |
| crhylove | I just want to change output. | 03:46 |
| fsmithred | I think you have to do that with pavucontrol if you're using pulseaudio | 03:46 |
| crhylove | But it won't stay. It reverts back to the other one automatically. | 03:47 |
| crhylove | pavucontrol never establishes a connection | 03:47 |
| crhylove | as posted above. | 03:47 |
| fsmithred | is pulseaudio running? Did you fix the line in /etc/pulse/whatever it is? | 03:47 |
| fsmithred | You probalby don't know what I'm talking about | 03:47 |
| fsmithred | if you're gonna use PA, check the release notes for the fix to make it autostart | 03:48 |
| fsmithred | either comment or uncomment one line. I always forget which, but it says what to do right there in the file. | 03:48 |
| crhylove | autospawn? | 03:49 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 03:49 |
| fsmithred | I should remember that. I can associate it with "spawn of satan" | 03:49 |
| crhylove | LOL. yeah. | 03:49 |
| * tuxd3v hehehe | 03:49 | |
| crhylove | ok, going for reboot brb. | 03:49 |
| crhylove | BOOM. That fixed it. | 03:52 |
| crhylove | Would be good to have that config file right out of the box. | 03:52 |
| fsmithred | someone would need to fork PA | 03:52 |
| crhylove | Gah. We can't have specific config files for our distro? | 03:57 |
| gnarface | you can, the problem is that the pulseaudio maintainers would have to include them willingly | 03:57 |
| gnarface | the only way around package maintainers' authority over their own packages is to fork the whole package | 03:58 |
| crhylove | Yikes. I can see why that would be tough. Since we are specifically excising the poettering code. | 03:58 |
| gnarface | yea, they don't like us | 03:58 |
| gnarface | we're a threat to their business plan | 03:59 |
| crhylove | obv.... and rightly so. | 04:05 |
| tuxd3v | with openbox + python 3.7 obamenu(pipe-menu) doesn't work.. I am porting the pipe menu to other language.. | 04:06 |
| tuxd3v | I tried first to correct some diffs in the language, but there are tons of diferences between python3.7 and python2 | 04:07 |
| tuxd3v | it was made with python2.. | 04:07 |
| tuxd3v | I doesn't want to install python2 hehe | 04:07 |
| tuxd3v | for that I prefer to have another language installed, in that way, I have 2 languages, python3.7 and Lua5.3 | 04:09 |
| newperson222 | Hello friends. I have question pertaining to using NETGEAR AC1200 Wi-Fi USB Adapter for installing Devuan. I apologize if this is covered in material somewhere, I have searched the Devuan forum and other places without success. This is my primary network connection hardware. Using the 64bit netinstall iso, my network hardware is not detected. I can | 06:50 |
| newperson222 | select from a large list of wifi firmware to use, but I have tried many of them and can never proceed. Is this hardware supported? If you could point me toward the correct firmware that would be great. thank you | 06:50 |
| newperson222 | Correction, the USB wifi dongle I am using is "Realtek 8812u" | 06:53 |
| gnarface | newperson222: you're sure it's rtl8812u not rtl8812au? | 07:01 |
| newperson222 | thanks for your reply, gnarface. in windows device manager, this network adapter says "Realtek 8812BU Wireless LAN 802.11ac USB NIC" | 07:03 |
| gnarface | newperson222: google results suggest neither ac1200 nor 8812u are supported, though i'm seeing traces of evidence people tried 4 years ago and failed, that means there could be a unpublished fix floating around out there somewhere | 07:03 |
| gnarface | newperson222: unless you're desperate i'd recommend just buying something cheap that is known to work though | 07:03 |
| gnarface | newperson222: (there are decent and known-supported realtek devices for as little as $9) | 07:04 |
| gnarface | newperson222: if you can get the netinstall to complete a bootable setup i might be able to help you debug it in the case it is user error, but like i said, my initial google searches suggest nobody else succeeded at this either | 07:05 |
| gnarface | newperson222: note however that "8812BU" is not "8812u" (which may or may not even exist) - the distinction probably matters | 07:05 |
| gnarface | newperson222: because for the 8812BU, there's actually much more recent mentions, and evidence people have got it working: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1079377/how-do-i-install-drivers-for-realtek-rtl8812bu | 07:06 |
| newperson222 | i see, thanks for this good info. yes, I've seen some forum posts from other distro's and found this: https://github.com/cilynx/rtl88x2BU_WiFi_linux_v5.2.4.4_26334.20180126_COEX20171012-5044 for instance | 07:07 |
| newperson222 | aha yes i was viewing that page myself right now | 07:07 |
| newperson222 | maybe if i can install with ethernet, and then apply this firmwware | 07:07 |
| newperson222 | i'm also curious about the $9 solution you mentioned, is that a specific product you know of? | 07:10 |
| newperson222 | i have not found a list of compatible usb wifi devices for devuan | 07:14 |
| gnarface | stand by i'll dig it up for you | 07:16 |
| newperson222 | thanks much! | 07:17 |
| gnarface | yes, installing with wired ethernet first is generally advised though | 07:17 |
| onefang | I had a similar problem years ago. I got a TP-Link TL-WN722N that has a Realtek 8188EU that's been working fine for me. firmware-realtek apt package. | 07:17 |
| gnarface | newperson222: search for d-link dwa121 | 07:18 |
| gnarface | newperson222: might also be listed as wireless n 150 pico usb adapter | 07:19 |
| gnarface | newperson222: also requires firmware-realtek but works reliably and is cheap | 07:19 |
| newperson222 | thanks gnarface and onefang, i've written this down! happy hacking | 07:20 |
| newperson222 | cheers | 07:25 |
| openbsdtai123 | Good morning, a little question, how to detect that the pi has HDMI plugged and not. This is for the audio plughw 0 or 1, depending on the hardware/plugs of the box. | 07:54 |
| rrq | maybe: grep ^connected /sys/class/drm/card*/status | 08:25 |
| kreyren | What is the proper way to get winehq on devuan? | 09:00 |
| kreyren | also i need steam~ | 09:08 |
| debdog | https://wiki.winehq.org/Debian | 09:14 |
| kreyren | debdog, that doesn't work on devuan since it's expecting bullseye | 09:15 |
| kreyren | edit: expecting winehq-staging from bullseye | 09:15 |
| debdog | what does expect bullseye? | 09:15 |
| kreyren | the winehq repository for debian used on devuan | 09:16 |
| debdog | it says "Debian 10 (Buster) deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/ buster main" | 09:18 |
| kreyren | trying | 09:19 |
| Unit193 | You'll need libfaudio0/etc too. | 09:20 |
| debdog | or do you refer to steam regarding "expecting bullseye"? in that case, I have no clue. | 09:27 |
| kreyren | debdog, same issue http://ix.io/2pju | 09:27 |
| kreyren | sorry took a long time to sync~ | 09:27 |
| debdog | have you been following "The WineHQ packages for Debian 10 and later require libfaudio0 as a dependency. Since the distro does not provide it for Debian 10, users of that version can download libfaudio0 packages from the OBS. See https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32192 for details."? | 09:28 |
| kreyren | noted | 09:29 |
| kreyren | debdog, about the steam i expect winehq-staging and steam to be invidual from each other | 09:29 |
| kreyren | the steam i think i can solve myself by using the valve repository | 09:29 |
| debdog | btw. what command do you use to install stuff? apt, apt-get, aptitude, ...? | 09:30 |
| debdog | just curious (because http://ix.io/2pju does not include which packages are missing) | 09:31 |
| kreyren | either on random | 09:31 |
| debdog | dunno about about apt but aptitude, compared to apt-get, gives more useful output when running into problems | 09:33 |
| * kreyren is running aptitude then | 09:33 | |
| kreyren | http://bpa.st/YNGQ | 09:34 |
| kreyren | debdog, | 09:37 |
| debdog | have you added multiarch i386? | 09:40 |
| kreyren | debdog, yep, multilib managed through sources.list | 09:40 |
| kreyren | http://ix.io/2pjw | 09:40 |
| debdog | have you run an "aptitude update; aptitude upgrade" beforehand? | 09:40 |
| kreyren | yes | 09:40 |
| debdog | dunno about i386 in sources.list. I usually run dpkg --add-architecture i386 (https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO#Usage) | 09:42 |
| kreyren | debdog, should work the same while allowing for a greater control over binaries | 09:43 |
| * debdog shrugs | 09:43 | |
| debdog | that's above my paygrade | 09:43 |
| buZz | i never seen manual multilib work | 09:43 |
| kreyren | like i can switch it if you want o.O but it always worked for me~ | 09:44 |
| debdog | yah, just saying I do not know what to do exactly in that case to resolve https://bpa.st/YNGQ | 09:44 |
| debdog | plus, you might have installed the wrong version of libfaudio (not entirely sure about that) | 09:46 |
| debdog | it's been a while since I've last installed winehq here and things/dependencies might have changed | 09:47 |
| kreyren | i think i've switched on stable from beowulf by mistake and getting broken packages now http://bpa.st/6NOA | 09:47 |
| kreyren | should i undo that on beowulf again? | 09:48 |
| kreyren | or it doesn't matter because beowulf and stable in devuan are same repo and this is caused by something else? | 09:48 |
| debdog | what does "aptitude show libfaudio0 | grep -i version" return? | 09:49 |
| kreyren | Version: 20.04-2 | 09:49 |
| debdog | hmm, mine says 20.01-0~buster | 09:50 |
| kreyren | O.o | 09:50 |
| * kreyren needs to restart his irc, sec | 09:50 | |
| kreyren | back | 09:51 |
| debdog | this https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine:/Debian/Debian_10/ says 20.01, too | 09:51 |
| kreyren | The stable and beowulf seems to be the same repo on the devuan though | 09:51 |
| kreyren | i am using default release pinned to stable maybe that changes it? | 09:51 |
| kreyren | http://ix.io/2pjB | 09:52 |
| debdog | maybe using the proper version of libfaudio fixes that? | 09:52 |
| kreyren | Seems that i don't even have stable libfaudio0 | 09:52 |
| kreyren | checking the winehq note | 09:52 |
| debdog | lol, should have done that earlier | 09:53 |
| kreyren | i though i did ;-; | 09:53 |
| * debdog is afk for a short while | 09:53 | |
| kreyren | oh my good | 10:01 |
| * kreyren just realized that his sources.list is not allowing i386 packages for winehq repository which is causing this conflict | 10:02 | |
| buZz | dpkg --add-architecture i386 | 10:02 |
| kreyren | buZz, even with that it doesn't pull if the deb [arch=amd64] is set | 10:03 |
| kreyren | works now though thanks for help ^-^ | 10:04 |
| crashoverride | How tested is openrc in devuan? | 12:57 |
| crashoverride | i.e. I know it quite well, I ran it on my systems for the better part of the last decade. | 12:57 |
| crashoverride | but my current devuan install is my dad's | 12:57 |
| crashoverride | and it's an old system, so... | 12:58 |
| crashoverride | (meaning, laptop from 200X) | 12:58 |
| crashoverride | moin aknife. | 12:58 |
| specing | crashoverride: I'm running it | 13:14 |
| specing | it works | 13:14 |
| specing | but: | 13:14 |
| specing | 1) OpenRC is a version from 2011 ! | 13:14 |
| specing | 2) It's actually sysvinit + openrc support, not "every init script is an openrc one" | 13:14 |
| crashoverride | ah | 13:15 |
| specing | (1) this is in ascii, beowulf probably has a newer one | 13:15 |
| crashoverride | ah. | 13:15 |
| crashoverride | yeah but 2 is a deal breaker for me. | 13:15 |
| crashoverride | openrc is great, but if it's only for a fraction of the software... | 13:16 |
| specing | crashoverride: not for a fraction, all the supplied software is sysvinit | 13:17 |
| specing | it's only for your scripts, basicallu | 13:17 |
| specing | basically* | 13:17 |
| crashoverride | ok | 13:17 |
| crashoverride | well, no then. | 13:17 |
| crashoverride | thanks a lot :) | 13:17 |
| crashoverride | I hope one day devuan will allow for different libcs | 13:19 |
| crashoverride | I'd like uclibc, musl and maybe dietlibc | 13:20 |
| crashoverride | there are other ones too, if you start digging. | 13:20 |
| crashoverride | https://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html for reference | 13:20 |
| specing | I'm not sure if that is possible, given the binary nature | 13:22 |
| crashoverride | void does it. | 13:22 |
| crashoverride | :P | 13:22 |
| DPA | Wouldn't that require rebuilding every package for every libc? | 13:25 |
| DPA | Also, switching / specifying a libc is unnecessarely difficult with current compilers. gcc has spec files, at least. And I think clang actally needs to be rebuilt for using a different one... | 13:25 |
| ShorTie | i'd think a complete recompile would be needed for each also | 13:30 |
| crashoverride | DPA: it would yes | 13:30 |
| crashoverride | DPA: it also allows you to do much better QA | 13:30 |
| crashoverride | since basically, having to make it work on different libcs leads to increased code portability and therefore to better code quality. | 13:31 |
| crashoverride | (unless you hack your way towards portability but that's on you then) | 13:31 |
| crashoverride | anyway, just an idea, I like devuan already :P | 13:32 |
| ShorTie | and therefore to better code quality, that's a big big hope, imho | 13:33 |
| crashoverride | maybe yes | 13:33 |
| crashoverride | either way, using a different libc forces devs to deal with bad code. | 13:33 |
| crashoverride | the way they deal with it is up to them ultimately. | 13:34 |
| crashoverride | s/devs/maintainers/; s/bad code/bad upstream code/ | 13:36 |
| * ShorTie Thinkz, they got enough on there plate now | 13:37 | |
| crashoverride | yeah most probably. | 13:38 |
| DPA | Most libcs' only have a subset of glibcs' functionallity. I think which omissions are sensible, is arguable. I don't think code not compiling with a different libc is necessarely a problem of the code. | 13:41 |
| kreyren | Is this sane pinning on devuan? https://github.com/Kreyren/apt-config/blob/leonid-devuan/preferences.d/zz-kreyren | 13:59 |
| kreyren | assuming sources.list https://github.com/Kreyren/apt-config/blob/leonid-devuan/sources.list | 13:59 |
| ShorTie | now thats a sources.list | 14:17 |
| kreyren | Not sure if i can make it to use clearweb if apt-transport-tor is not installed or available though | 14:21 |
| kreyren | would probably have to make a wrapper at that point | 14:21 |
| ShorTie | ya, i'd agree that apt-transport-tor needs to be installed for it to work | 14:26 |
| DPA | If tor is already installed, it's also possible to setup a transparent proxy using tors socks proxy and iptables and pointing the resolv.conf to tors dns. And there is an apt option for allowing resolution of *.onion domains in that's needed for that special setup. (although, the chach can probably also be circumvented by using *.onion. instead of *.onion). | 14:31 |
| DPA | s/chach/check/ | 14:32 |
| DPA | Setting tors socks proxy in apts config or using tsocks would probably also work. | 14:37 |
| * kreyren did that again https://github.com/Kreyren/apt-config/blob/leonid-devuan/bin/apt.sh | 15:34 | |
| kreyren | DPA, tor is not already installed in my setup in that phase :/ | 15:55 |
| kreyren | but i think i could rework it to make it set up | 15:55 |
| golinux | kreyren: Never use "stable" or "testing" in your devuan sources.list. This is well documented on the website. https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 17:10 |
| morla101119 | hey! congratulations on releasing beowulf as stable! this is great! | 17:15 |
| morla101119 | does anyone know if k8s is expected to run on beowulf? | 17:17 |
| morla101119 | i am about to setup a new cluster and i would love to ditch ubuntu | 17:17 |
| fsmithred | morla101119, https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=k8s&release=beowulf | 17:35 |
| kreyren | golinux, i know it's documented, but it doesn't seem sane to me to pin the releases only assuming that it would point to the same thing as stable even after an update? | 17:39 |
| golinux | kreyren: Except that with devuan is does not always point to the same thing | 17:41 |
| kreyren | golinux, how so? | 17:41 |
| golinux | Debian was stable and Devuan was testing for almost a year before the Beowulf stable release | 17:42 |
| kreyren | golinux, true | 17:42 |
| kreyren | changing it then :p | 17:42 |
| golinux | That has happened to several folks who had testing in their sources and ended up on bullseye and a broken mess | 17:43 |
| golinux | And if you use stable you will get bulleye when debian releases it | 17:44 |
| golinux | You will save yourself some grief | 17:45 |
| kreyren | golinux, noted thanks ^-^ | 17:45 |
| golinux | yw | 17:45 |
| golinux | Explained on this page https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 17:46 |
| kreyren | noted | 17:47 |
| kreyren | i am not sure about the pinning though | 17:48 |
| kreyren | so that it would prefer devuan over debian | 17:48 |
| golinux | I have never had to pin anything | 17:49 |
| golinux | so can't answer to that. | 17:50 |
| morla101119 | fsmithred, thanks. kubernetes is not expected to be in the repo. | 17:53 |
| morla101119 | i was trying to ask if someone has gotten it to run w/o systemd. especially on devuan beowulf. | 17:54 |
| kreyren | morla101119, i did, but not on apt-based :p | 17:54 |
| nemo | https://m8y.org/tmp/amdgpu.html this is the only pin I currently have at home for Beowulf | 17:55 |
| nemo | I also have a stupid one at work for the ascii kernel that I hope to get rid of soon | 17:55 |
| lunario | the current devuan repository is down, isn't it? | 17:55 |
| nemo | ?? | 17:55 |
| nemo | wut | 17:55 |
| kreyren | lunario, ain't for me | 17:55 |
| lunario | ping www.deb.devuan.org | 17:56 |
| kreyren | you meant deb.devuan.org | 17:56 |
| morla101119 | kreyren, cool. may i pm you? | 17:56 |
| kreyren | 64 bytes from XXXX (XXXX): icmp_seq=1 ttl=48 time=75.7 ms | 17:56 |
| onefang | deb.devuan.org is a DNS round robin. | 17:56 |
| lunario | Err:4 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security InRelease | 17:56 |
| kreyren | morla101119, sure, but if it's related to devuan you are better to ask here :p | 17:57 |
| lunario | that's what i get when i try to update | 17:57 |
| lunario | ah right,now pinging it actually works here too | 17:57 |
| morla101119 | kreyren, more related to how you deployed k8s :) | 17:57 |
| kreyren | lunario: return output from `cat /etc/apt/sources.list | curl -F 'f:1=<-' ix.io` then | 17:57 |
| lunario | but in apt-get update i still get "Temporary failure resolving 'deb.devuan.org'" | 17:57 |
| onefang | https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html gives the details of which mirrors are up and other stuff. | 17:57 |
| kreyren | it will generate a paste link of your sources.list | 17:57 |
| lunario | http://ix.io/2pli | 17:58 |
| kreyren | lunario, you have lots of garbage there, but seems sane to me :p | 17:58 |
| lunario | haha yeah ikr | 17:58 |
| lunario | the failure only happens for the devuan related entries though, not for any other | 17:59 |
| kreyren | lunario, i've used gentoo for kubernetes if that helps you | 17:59 |
| kreyren | lunario, return logs then :p | 17:59 |
| lunario | https://termbin.com/uxu4 | 18:00 |
| onefang | This is one reason there are three web sites showing the package mirror status. None of them are showing problems now, so it might be a local problem for you. | 18:00 |
| kreyren | lunario, `ping google.com` works for you? | 18:00 |
| lunario | yes | 18:00 |
| kreyren | seems like DNS issue to me | 18:00 |
| kreyren | weird | 18:00 |
| lunario | well, not google.com because i put 0.0.0.0 for it into /etc/hosts :P but any other site does | 18:01 |
| onefang | https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html http://napier.devuan.org:8080/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 18:01 |
| kreyren | lunario, return output from `ping google.com` i don't believe you :p | 18:01 |
| lunario | everything else works, it's just the devuan repos | 18:01 |
| lunario | but maybe i should just try again later | 18:01 |
| lunario | it worked earlier today | 18:01 |
| kreyren | weird | 18:02 |
| onefang | Or try a specific mirror? | 18:02 |
| kreyren | `service network restart` to force DNS refresh might help | 18:02 |
| lunario | onefang: will do that if it doesn't work later | 18:02 |
| kreyren | also i would try changing /etc/resolv.conf to `nameserver 1.1.1.1` | 18:02 |
| lunario | kreyren: why? | 18:02 |
| lunario | shouldnt it be my router's ip? | 18:02 |
| kreyren | lunario, i don't think that would be related to temporary failure resolving | 18:04 |
| kreyren | that indicates DNS issue | 18:04 |
| kreyren | or it always did on my end O.o | 18:04 |
| kreyren | or i guess you can try the specific IP http://ix.io/2plj | 18:05 |
| kreyren | this is output from `dig +short deb.devuan.org` | 18:05 |
| onefang | Using the IPs in your sources list wont help. | 18:07 |
| kreyren | onefang, true, but it will prove it being a DNS issue | 18:07 |
| lunario | ok, i will wait an hour and check if the problem persists; if yes, i'll change the nameserver. thanks for your help so far! | 18:09 |
| kreyren | lunario, i woudn't wait :p | 18:10 |
| * kreyren is sad that `dpkg --get-selections < world` doesn't work | 18:13 | |
| kreyren | APT::Build-Essensial is apparently a thing though | 18:16 |
| kreyren | AHHH i just spent 15 minutes debugging preferences and i had `Pin;` instead of `Pin:` | 18:30 |
| kreyren | -.- | 18:30 |
| onefang | I spent many hours yesterday wondering what it was I broke this time with my Syslinux EFI experiments, I had named a file .EFK instead of .EFI. lol | 18:31 |
| onefang | And most of a day coz I was using an AMD64 kernel with an 686 user space, yet it almost worked. | 18:33 |
| fsmithred | lunario are you using apt or apt-get to update? | 18:34 |
| fsmithred | if this is your first update since beowulf went stable, you'll get an error. Use 'apt update' and answer yes when it asks. | 18:34 |
| kreyren | yaay my pinning works as expected | 18:46 |
| lunario | fsmithred: i was using apt-get... but now it actually all works fine again | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | oh, good | 20:19 |
| Garb0 | So, how good is beowulf right now? | 21:13 |
| Garb0 | is it 'good enough' or pretty much polished? | 21:14 |
| onefang | It's been released, and is the current stable. | 21:14 |
| minnesotags | What is up with the deb.devuan.org? | 21:14 |
| Garb0 | wait, what? already? | 21:15 |
| onefang | https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html http://napier.devuan.org:8080/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html show the state of the package mirrors. | 21:15 |
| Garb0 | damn, really. | 21:15 |
| minnesotags | E: Failed to fetch http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/Beowolf/contrib/source/Sources 404 Not Found [IP: 195.85.215.180 80] | 21:15 |
| minnesotags | E: Failed to fetch http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/Beowolf-security/non-free/source/Sources 404 Not Found [IP: 195.85.215.180 80] | 21:15 |
| minnesotags | E: Failed to fetch http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/Beowolf-updates/main/source/Sources 404 Not Found [IP: 195.85.215.180 80] | 21:15 |
| minnesotags | E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. | 21:15 |
| onefang | All three mirror checkers say that mirror is working fine. Might be a problem at your end. | 21:17 |
| syco- | i get a 404 too here | 21:17 |
| onefang | Garb0: check the IRC title, it says "(Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable)" | 21:18 |
| minnesotags | I just updated my DNS to be sure. This is NOT a problem on my end. | 21:18 |
| syco- | its not a DNS problem since it gives a 404 | 21:18 |
| onefang | Three different mirror checking servers are not having that problem though. | 21:18 |
| minnesotags | I'm looking at the first mirror checker (borta.devuan.dev) and it IS showing 3 fails for deb.devuan.org | 21:19 |
| onefang | Not for the IP 195.85.215.180 though. | 21:20 |
| bsat | i lost ability to login to X session on devuan beowulf box | 21:21 |
| bsat | root can login | 21:22 |
| onefang | Oh wait, you have "beowolf", it's "beowulf". | 21:22 |
| minnesotags | Crap. | 21:22 |
| bsat | elogind is installed | 21:22 |
| bsat | how do i regenerate the .Xauthority | 21:23 |
| minnesotags | Yeah beowulf works better. | 21:24 |
| bsat | mkauth, ok | 21:24 |
| onefang | And borta showing timeouts when the other two are not showing timeouts is why we have three mirror checking servers, borta was having the timeout problem locally. | 21:26 |
| bsat | dbus-update-activiation-environment: systemd --user not found, ignoring --systemd argument | 21:27 |
| bsat | well let's purge dbus then | 21:27 |
| nemo | minnesotags: hm. I'm also surprise that the mirror is case insensitive ☺ | 21:35 |
| fsmithred | bsat, make sure you have libpam-elogind | 21:35 |
| nemo | minnesotags: where did you get those urls from anyway? | 21:35 |
| fsmithred | and no-dbus is possible: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158 | 21:36 |
| fsmithred | gotta go. bbl. | 21:36 |
| onefang | It wasn't the case, it was the u in "wulf", but minnesotags had o "wolf". | 21:36 |
| minnesotags | yeah. wolf not wulf | 21:37 |
| minnesotags | ^/ is a big help. | 21:37 |
| minnesotags | I mean ^\ | 21:37 |
| bsat | it's there fsmithred - is /etc/systemd needed? | 21:43 |
| bsat | hmm adding a new user solved it | 21:45 |
| bsat | maybe some badness with my .Xauthority | 21:45 |
| bsat | thanks ffolks! | 21:47 |
| bsat | i love no-dbus | 21:48 |
| bsat | no-dbus gives me the warm orange colored liquid in my brain | 21:48 |
| MinceR | lava? | 21:48 |
| nemo | ichor in his tubules | 21:49 |
| MinceR | i thought ichor was black | 21:49 |
| bsat | i have palemoon without dbus built for aarch64 and it is happy warm orange glowy | 21:50 |
| james1138 | Heads up Bsat if you are not already aware... Palemoon does not support at this time DRM, so using it to watch stuff like Hulu or NetFlix is a no-go. | 22:16 |
| MinceR | good | 22:17 |
| bsat | don't watch hulu or netflix | 22:17 |
| bsat | :) | 22:17 |
| MinceR | DRM doesn't belong on the web | 22:17 |
| MinceR | and netfucks should never have had the opportunity to help kill the web | 22:17 |
| bsat | this better to go in #debianfork | 22:17 |
| nemo | is palemoon actually maintained by devuan? O_o | 22:18 |
| bsat | no, but i have happyfun stripped down builds | 22:18 |
| bsat | for aarch64 | 22:18 |
| nemo | MinceR: the ichor starts out black, but warms to orange | 22:18 |
| bsat | after you werfs enough flammens, everything glows a happy orange | 22:19 |
| nemo | ok. I was gonna say, that seems like kind of a big risk on the part of the devuan folks | 22:19 |
| bsat | why | 22:19 |
| bsat | you just can't brand a changed/derivitave build 'pale moon' | 22:20 |
| bsat | call it bsat moon or devuan star | 22:20 |
| onefang | Pale Moon is a fork of FireFox, but it isn't in Debian or Devuan package repos. | 22:20 |
| nemo | onefang: yeah, a fork based off of a firefox from 25 releases ago. and hard enough / impossible for debian/devuan to ensure security patching of firefox which is why they mostly offload it to upstream | 22:21 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
