| yeti | isnt gitlab flirting with google? | 01:01 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | yeti: It already flirted with microsoft | 01:27 |
| yeti | so with both... dirty dancing... :-P | 01:32 |
| golinux | LOL! More like partners in crime . . . | 01:55 |
| tom_ | brocashelm, absolutely not | 02:13 |
| golinux | And all offtopic | 02:13 |
| tom_ | gitlab is so buggy and broken | 02:13 |
| tom_ | and it's not really free as in freedom | 02:13 |
| tom_ | if anything a plain cgit read-only repo and a mailinglist | 02:13 |
| tom_ | with optionally a sourcehut frontend | 02:13 |
| Wafficus | hi there, I have a question regarding 'icecat'. I'm attempting to just run it from the GNU source package, yet its complaining that "Couldn't load XPCOM" | 03:32 |
| Wafficus | after looking into this, it looks like Icecat depends on XULRunner, which is deprecated | 03:32 |
| Wafficus | it seems like its related to systemd in some way as well | 03:32 |
| Wafficus | with that regards, has anyone successfully built Icecat on Devuan? | 03:32 |
| Wafficus | or what would be a good browser choice that wouldn't require systemd, and is a bit secure? | 03:32 |
| Wafficus | I was kind of leaning towards Icecat or Ungoogled Chromium. More so, because Qutebrowser doesn't let me login into YouTube or Digital Ocean, so I was debating what browsers would be good for Devuan | 03:33 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: did you try just building the version from here? https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ | 03:35 |
| Wafficus | I believe so | 03:36 |
| Wafficus | this is the mirror I obtained their latest version from | 03:36 |
| Wafficus | https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ | 03:36 |
| systemdlete | Icecat has systemd dependencies? LOL! | 03:36 |
| systemdlete | firefox-esr-systemd | 03:37 |
| Wafficus | I could be totally wrong though | 03:37 |
| Wafficus | the only available thread on this same issue I found was on Arch | 03:37 |
| Wafficus | and the workaround is to make sure you have XULRunner installed | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ | 03:38 |
| systemdlete | It's bad enough that so many mozilla variants have or have had pulseaudio dependencies. | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=65846 | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | latest link is correct | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: agreed | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | I'd rather keep alsa as well | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | I don't need pulseaudio, and don't plan on it | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | do I have to just resort to firefox-esr from Devuan's package, or ungoogled chromium at this point? honest question, since I don't want to waste anyone's time trying to figure out Icecat if it simply will not work without systemd, because that would be a lost cause at that point | 03:39 |
| systemdlete | I've been using (on Devuan) firefox, chromium, brave... | 03:40 |
| Wafficus | gotcha | 03:40 |
| Wafficus | maybe I should consider Firefox in that case | 03:40 |
| systemdlete | I haven't run into any "sticky" websites | 03:40 |
| Wafficus | I don't personally like Brave since its the shill lion tbh. I don't like cryptocurrency either so that's probably why | 03:40 |
| systemdlete | no snags | 03:40 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: cool, thanks for the recommendation | 03:41 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: doesn't Firefox on Devuan depend upon pulse audio though? | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | brave is OK, but it IS annoying when it prompts you with idiotic ads | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | Wafficus, no. | 03:41 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: did you see that they got caught doing hijacking links for cryptocurrency sites? | 03:41 |
| Wafficus | *for Brave browser | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | I've been running browsers without pulse on any of my systems. | 03:42 |
| Wafficus | I mean, they have to make money somehow, but that's not right honestly. Should be optional and be able to opt-in for bonuses | 03:42 |
| systemdlete | All of my hosts and VMs have been thoroughly depotterized | 03:42 |
| Wafficus | ok gotcha, yeah I ask because last time I installed Firefox-esr on Debian stable, it made me install pulseaudio to get audio working | 03:42 |
| Wafficus | depotterized meaning? | 03:42 |
| systemdlete | There was a war over that, I think, and mozilla lost. | 03:42 |
| systemdlete | but boy was that annoying for a long time... | 03:43 |
| systemdlete | hold on, I might be wrong. | 03:43 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: firefox-esr should work without pulseaudio | 03:44 |
| systemdlete | OK, I was right after all. No pulse needed. | 03:44 |
| systemdlete | For a while, I had to run firefox and other browsers with apulse | 03:44 |
| systemdlete | gnarface: it does | 03:44 |
| Wafficus | so just standard firefox-esr then, good to know | 03:44 |
| Wafficus | thank you for that | 03:44 |
| Wafficus | will install now | 03:44 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: disable that pocket shit and you should be fine | 03:44 |
| Wafficus | absolutely | 03:45 |
| Wafficus | I hate pocket | 03:45 |
| systemdlete | Yes. I just launched firefox-esr from the command line on a VM without pulseaudio and I launched it without calling apulse. | 03:45 |
| Wafficus | reason I stopped using their Mobile version | 03:45 |
| Wafficus | absolutely terrible telemetry and just spammed articles half of the time | 03:45 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: debian briefly rolled out pulseaudio as a requirement with much fanfare but then rolled back the change quietly 2 minor revisions later after massive backlash | 03:45 |
| systemdlete | Wafficus: Thanks for alerting me about the brave browser... but I don't have any bitcoin anyway. | 03:46 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: unfortunately the damage was largely done by then, since now everyone thinks you actually need pulseaudio | 03:46 |
| systemdlete | They "improved" firefox, we were told. | 03:46 |
| systemdlete | This way, they reduced maintenance by not having to support multiple sound platforms. | 03:47 |
| systemdlete | Even though the code was ALREADY in firefox anyway and worked adeqately enough | 03:47 |
| gnarface | yea they also claimed they'd removed the code completely and it couldn't be put back without cost, a statement instantly belied by it being re-enableable with a build option | 03:48 |
| systemdlete | oops | 03:48 |
| systemdlete | too funny | 03:48 |
| gnarface | heh, yea | 03:48 |
| Wafficus | Honest question about controller input support for my Wii U pro controller on my Devuan desktop. I've got two weird issues: I installed the pcsx2 (Playstation 2 emulator) via Devuan's package. However, its able to detect it as an "Xbox 360 gamepad" but when I try to assign input, it doesn't do anything. The Dolphin (Wii and Gamecube) emulator works just fine with the same controller, so I'm wondering if I | 03:49 |
| Wafficus | have to install additional "Xbox 360" controller input plugins from 'apt' on Devuan to make it work. 2. I installed the latest Retroarch from Libretro's latest flatpak release, but my same Wii U pro controller isn't being recognized at all. | 03:49 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhsyujzpVk | 03:50 |
| Wafficus | systemdlete: that's Brodie Robertson's video on the Brave browser getting caught hijacking links for cryptocurrency incentives | 03:50 |
| Wafficus | which actually is fine if you're into it, but that's not a good practice for anyone who doesn't care for it if you know what I mean. Makes you think what else they're doing. | 03:50 |
| systemdlete | I promise to look at it. I have to "go to church" (via zoom, that is) | 03:53 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: dunno about the Wii-U pro thing. you probably have to debug bluetooth first before anything will work. Dolphin i heard has forgone participating in system input support libraries in favor of entirely hard-coding their own stuff internally to the program, so that explains that probably (it wouldn't be the first time i heard of a 3rd party controller working in Dolphin before anything else) | 03:53 |
| systemdlete | thanks for that link, though. I'll look at it in about an hour or so. | 03:53 |
| Wafficus | its not directly doing bluetooth though, I'm using a USB adapter dongle | 03:53 |
| Wafficus | its an orange Nintendo brick looking one, one sec | 03:53 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: ok, so that's an important distinction for while you're debugging - it will show up as a different physical device over USB than bluetooth. | 03:54 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (that's caused confusion for Steam Controller users too) | 03:54 |
| Wafficus | this is it: https://www.8bitdo.com/wireless-usb-adapter/ | 03:54 |
| Wafficus | got it | 03:54 |
| Wafficus | mm, I see | 03:54 |
| Wafficus | maybe its a case where I just have to list the devices present, and just force it to work or something for these two off cases | 03:55 |
| Wafficus | I had a feeling though about Retroarch is that maybe it just doesn't work the same way in its Flatpak version | 03:55 |
| Wafficus | I tried the one in the Devuan repo, but it just wouldn't scan the directories properly for ROMs | 03:55 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: yea for all i know you might have to figure out which exact /dev/input/event* file it is and type that directly into the config of your emulator | 03:55 |
| Wafficus | drove me nuts to the point where I just gave in and tried the latest Flatpak release instead | 03:56 |
| Wafficus | ah I see | 03:56 |
| Wafficus | /dev/input/event | 03:56 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (that's another issue that sabotages a lot of Steam Controller users because it shows up in /dev/input/ like a dozen times but most games only care about one of the entries) | 03:56 |
| Wafficus | got it, will list that out on the desktop tomorrow or whenever and see what's present when I plug it in | 03:56 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: look at the list before AND AFTER plugging in the device... seeing which ones show up fresh on hotplug is probably an important clue | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | will do | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | thank you for that advice | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | hope you're doing well :) | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | hope I haven't been bothering you too much today ha | 03:57 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: thanks. no, it's no problem. | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | I saw your GitHub page, you seem like you know your stuff | 03:57 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: what? wait no, that's not me. | 03:57 |
| Wafficus | ohh nevermind | 03:58 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i'm not on github | 03:58 |
| Wafficus | its the other guy who hates me ha | 03:58 |
| Wafficus | :0 shh I didn't say anything :) | 03:58 |
| gnarface | heh ok | 03:58 |
| Wafficus | if I experienced a Retroarch specific issue from the Devuan repo | 03:58 |
| Wafficus | is that a bug for Devuan in terms of package management | 03:58 |
| Wafficus | or is that a Retroarch bug | 03:59 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: the output of dmesg might be useful too, if you haven't looked at it (just like listing /dev/input/ - look before and after hotplug because what changes at hotplug is the important clues) | 03:59 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: in general you'd have to check the debian version on debian to know for sure whether it's a devuan packaging issue or not, but most packages aren't even repackaged for devuan, so the odds are it's a bug for both distros | 03:59 |
| Wafficus | the issue I experienced was that the Devuan version of Retroarch would scan the directories, but afterwards, nothing would happen. Its supposed to scan the available directories and make appropriate directories for each console it finds. I also made sure I installed all of the respective cores that I could as well | 03:59 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: OH, but for this specific thing you're debugging, permissions behaviors are different enough between systemd and non-systemd systems that it would cause devices to go undetected, yes. | 04:00 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: that's not really a packaging issue per-se, but systemd just insecurely blanket grants all access to all connected devices to all local console users. in devuan you'd have to still grant yourself permission one way or another | 04:01 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (if your udev rules recognize the device correctly by default you can probably just add yourself to the "input" group but otherwise you might have to make some custom udev rules) | 04:04 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (and of course nobody using systemd is gonna even know about this) | 04:04 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i might be able to help you figure it out with more information. i managed to pull it off for my Steam Controller, a Wii Pro controller (not Wii-U) and a GameCube controller. | 04:07 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: and no, it wouldn't be unexpected that it might show up as a xbox 360 controller or a generic usb gamepad instead of by name | 04:08 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (the adapters i'm passing the older nintendo controllers through convert them to generic usb devices as far as the kernel is concerned, while the Steam Controller can emulate xbox360 controllers on demand as requested by certain steam games) | 04:09 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: but yea, i heard Dolphin just has built-in raw support for a huge range of devices, some of which they had working before anyone participating in kernel development even tried to | 04:14 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: so that could easily explain that part of the mystery | 04:14 |
| Wafficus | ah I see | 04:22 |
| Wafficus | so Dolphin itself is better at raw input | 04:22 |
| Wafficus | interesting | 04:22 |
| Wafficus | I wonder if I should just seek out a different input plugin for pcsx2 in that case and see if that makes a difference | 04:22 |
| gnarface | based only on what little i know at this point, it seems worth trying anyway | 04:27 |
| gnarface | there may be multiple ways to get it working | 04:27 |
| gnarface | (the older way to get xbox360 controllers working was a userspace daemon that merely mapped the buttons to keyboard keys, and some people still prefer that, but now it's natively supported as well) | 04:27 |
| Wafficus | gnarface: what utility would I use to do that? | 04:28 |
| Wafficus | gnarface: or do you literally have to map it on the OS level to be specific keys in that case? | 04:28 |
| Wafficus | I do like your idea to look out for a .config file for that emulator, hoping that might be the case | 04:29 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i never used it, but i think it had "xbox" and "360" in the name, so it was easily confused with the kernel module of a similar name... | 04:29 |
| Wafficus | "xboxdrv" from 'apt'? gnarface | 04:29 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: "Description: Xbox360 gamepad driver for the userspace" < yea, i think this one | 04:30 |
| Wafficus | so if I install that driver, that's it | 04:30 |
| Wafficus | should it work from the box? | 04:30 |
| Wafficus | or do I have to tweak the c based code at that point? | 04:30 |
| onefang | You'll need to X the box, then turn it around 360 degrees. B-) | 04:31 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: no, you wouldn't have to change any c code but it might require some manual customization to work. first of all, you have to map your game controls in-game to keyboard keys, which isn't a big deal for many games, but you also lose analog joystick and trigger axis support, which can be a big deal for some games (like driving games especially) | 04:31 |
| Wafficus | lol haha | 04:32 |
| Wafficus | ah yeah | 04:32 |
| Wafficus | however I think they're digital triggers for Wii U anyway | 04:32 |
| Wafficus | so they're not truly analog like the real xbox 360 controllers | 04:32 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i've never really used it, but that's what stopped me from using it for the steam controller, was the loss of analog support | 04:32 |
| Wafficus | I see | 04:33 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: one more pitfall to show you then i'm gonna go eat | 04:34 |
| Wafficus | no worries, I can go off and try what you mentioned though | 04:34 |
| Wafficus | don't worry about me | 04:34 |
| Wafficus | do whatever you gotta do | 04:34 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: if you "ls -l" in /dev/input/ you may see a given device show up as both event* nodes and js* nodes. the "js" ones are the old protocol, the "event" ones are the new protocol, and for any given program, one or the other may not work, and even when both work, one or the other may be preferable due to better support by the game itself | 04:35 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (the biggest issue i have had with it is just when some newer games really want the "event" device but pick a "js" one just because it showed up first, then operate with partial/crippled support) | 04:36 |
| Wafficus | ok I'll try that | 04:37 |
| Wafficus | thanks | 04:37 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (that's easy to correct by hand in the game's config or in Steam's config usually, but you gotta notice that's what is happening first or you'll just go insane) | 04:37 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: yea, no problem | 04:37 |
| Wafficus | not planning on using Steam, but I hear what you're saying | 04:39 |
| gnarface | yea i'm just bringing it up as a test case, because you might catch other stuff doing similar things | 04:41 |
| Wafficus | ah I see gotcha | 04:43 |
| Wafficus | I found it | 04:48 |
| Wafficus | its 'js0' | 04:48 |
| Wafficus | that's the one difference when running the 'ls' command on that section, /dev/input | 04:49 |
| gnarface | interesting | 04:51 |
| gnarface | if it shows no event* nodes for that device at all, the first question is whether it's supposed to or not (if it is, that might suggest you're missing a kernel module still) | 04:51 |
| gnarface | alright, stepping away for real now, but i'll still read the scrollback | 04:53 |
| gnarface | later | 04:53 |
| Wafficus | ok you got it thanks | 04:53 |
| Wafficus | I have the Wii U pro controller plugged in, but it says the following error when I run 'xboxdrv' | 05:10 |
| Wafficus | sam@devuandesktop ~ $ xboxdrv | 05:10 |
| Wafficus | -- [ ERROR ] -------- | 05:10 |
| Wafficus | USBController:USBController(): libusb_open() failed: LIBSUB_ERROR_ACCESS | 05:11 |
| Wafficus | I tried the same variant but with sudo, but same kind of result | 05:12 |
| Wafficus | sam@devuandesktop ~ $ sudo xboxdrv | 05:12 |
| Wafficus | -- [ ERROR ] ---------- | 05:12 |
| Wafficus | Error couldn't claim the USB interface: LIBUSB_ERROR_BUSY | 05:12 |
| Wafficus | Try to run 'rmmod xpad' and then xboxdrv again or start xbox drv with the option --detach-kernel-driver | 05:13 |
| Wafficus | I did those suggestions and I see some input on screen that's responding to my controller so that's good | 05:14 |
| Wafficus | I just have no idea how to use this driver, or if I'm supposed to take notes on what actions are being fired upon each button press | 05:14 |
| Wafficus | ah I think I get what you're saying now | 05:22 |
| Wafficus | to literally map the controller to the same keyboard events | 05:22 |
| Wafficus | but yeah I think you're right in the fact that analog and triggers will be screwed as a result | 05:23 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: yea, it was a stopgap people were using until real native support came along but it's still widely popular just because it's easier to get working | 05:53 |
| gnarface | (and obviously, the analog stick issue isn't a problem if you're playing a game that was designed for a d-pad style controller to begin with) | 05:53 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: you probably know more about it as i do now | 05:54 |
| gnarface | s/as/than/ | 05:54 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: dunno about that error at all since i've never tried this but it kinda looks like a basic permissions error | 05:55 |
| Wafficus | yeah I found two related threads on this | 05:55 |
| Wafficus | one Reddit post basically has the user using a Wii based input driver | 05:55 |
| Wafficus | the other post I found was on a PCSX2 forum post for Xbox360 controller support for PCSX2 | 05:55 |
| Wafficus | its one of those two diverging paths I'd have to take | 05:55 |
| Wafficus | I think more realistically, I'd have to figure out how to configure the 'xboxdrv' driver to map it to the actual keyboard keys so that I could just map the emulator's input to keyboard keys and then remap the controller appropriately using the 'xboxdrv' based config file | 05:56 |
| Wafficus | OR I could remap the config file for PCSX2 itself, but again, I don't know what the xinput commands are in Linux for each of these Xbox360 gamepad buttons | 05:57 |
| Wafficus | otherwise, I could easily find them in 'xev' utility | 05:57 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: yea, that's where xinput gets confusing, because they're not just numbered axis and buttons like with the old API; they're actually named BY THE GAME so though there's some de-facto standard names, they're not even necessarily all called the same thing from game to game | 05:58 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: the steam client gives you an interface to at least see and edit them' | 05:59 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i don't know what good that'd do you though | 05:59 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: there is a native open-source program for steam controller mapping support, i wonder if it'd work for other xinput controllers too though? | 06:01 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: (i've never tried it so i don't know) | 06:02 |
| Wafficus | gotcha no worries | 06:07 |
| Wafficus | well, peace for now, I took a few notes, and will try this issue bit by bit as I go on in the next week or so | 06:07 |
| Wafficus | nothing imperative | 06:07 |
| Wafficus | I just don't have that much patience for stuff like this sometimes to be honest, idk why | 06:07 |
| Wafficus | I just want to get it working to play some games lol | 06:08 |
| Wafficus | that's about it | 06:08 |
| Wafficus | anyway, cool man, thanks for the right direction, cya for now | 06:08 |
| aitor | hi | 15:23 |
| Guest78043 | Wafficus: are you still there? | 15:24 |
| Guest78043 | you asked about IceCat today | 15:24 |
| Guest78043 | ok, looking at your comments, you live in another timezone | 15:29 |
| moosl | hei | 17:16 |
| moosl | I did some further research on my devuan+musl idea | 17:16 |
| moosl | --> https://wiki.debian.org/musl | 17:16 |
| moosl | what would be the next step? | 17:50 |
| aitor | as far as i know, musl is used in void linux | 18:31 |
| tuxd3v | my last iteration: | 18:32 |
| tuxd3v | https://postimg.cc/fJPfzZ62/829078c3 | 18:32 |
| Guest99543 | gnarface, systemdlete: it's possible to enable/disable both pulseaudio and alsa before building the sources of any branding of mozilla | 18:38 |
| Guest99543 | and IceCat doesn't depend on systemd, maybe old packagings for Trisquel depending on libgnomeui, libbonobo, etc... but i doubt | 18:42 |
| brocashelm | trying to see if i can get wine fully installed by building from source. apt keeps complaining about no dependency for removal of wine32 | 18:56 |
| systemdlete | firefox slowed my devuan host to a crawl this morning. Killed and restarted it and now all seems OK. It was working fine last night, but by this morning, it was slowing the system to a creep. I figured out it was firefox by examining iotop. | 22:08 |
| systemdlete | This happens frequently here. It also happens to thunderbird, though not much recently. I'm running xfce 4.12, and that's as host in this case, not VM. | 22:10 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: firefox is a bloated mess these days, unfortunately | 22:27 |
| systemdlete | "these days?" Only these days? LOL | 22:28 |
| plasma41 | I include at least the last decade in "these days" | 22:29 |
| systemdlete | OK, that works. | 22:29 |
| GNULinuz | Hi. I'm selling GNU/Linux licenses. $99 for single computer, $49 for each computer if you purchase 25 or more licenses. Bitcoin payment only! | 23:04 |
| MinceR | GNULinuz: that is offtopic here | 23:05 |
| GNULinuz | MinceR: how? Without license you're not allowed to run Devuan. | 23:06 |
| mason | Suggestion: 17:05 -!- mode/#debian [+b GNU*!*@gateway/web/irccloud.com/*] by greycat | 23:06 |
| gordonDrogon | that could have been fun, but ah well :) | 23:11 |
| brocashelm | tits or gtfo | 23:11 |
| brocashelm | (saw that on artix lol) | 23:11 |
| brocashelm | better idea: donate to devuan/anti-systemd distros | 23:12 |
| systemdlete | Do you have a similar trick for rejecting scam calls on my smartphone? Permanently? | 23:20 |
| doubledutch | systemdlete: start your voicemail with those DUU DUU DUUUU tones | 23:58 |
| doubledutch | When autocaller hears that they will blacklist you as NaN or OOS | 23:59 |
| systemdlete | But will my friends/girlfriends also blacklist me also? Hmmmm... idk about this approach. | 23:59 |
| systemdlete | :D | 23:59 |
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