libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-08-07

golinuxWoohoo!  We now have a "Freedom Hacks" forum at dev1galaxy.org!!00:31
Hurgotron--verbose please00:33
golinuxExplore workarounds to reverse/repair unwanted upstream decisions00:34
Hurgotronsounds great!00:36
golinuxYeah, I think it will be a winner00:40
phoggso how much of this will be about gnome00:41
meep_____We should discuss this at that new tourist attraction https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/mysteryfleshpit.jpg?fit=1280%2C1724&type=vertical&quality=100&ssl=100:45
meep_____Is there any way to improve the efficiency of the sleep command?02:42
meep_____I thought it's just supposed to be a NOOP02:42
gnarfacesleep in bash?02:43
gnarfaceoh it's a program, not a bash construct02:43
gnarfacehmmm02:43
gnarfacedid you try nicing it?02:43
gnarfaceheheh02:43
meep_____after switching from xfce tooling (theme management, volume management, power management) to DWM and ACPId my system battery last so much longer. It's always as if I have installed a new battery02:43
meep_____But DWM and ACPId is so efficient it's exposed inefficiencies elsewhere in the system02:44
gnarfacenice -n -20 sleep 102:44
gnarface?02:44
meep_____For example the 'sleep' command now shows up regular in conky's top of cpu consumer list02:44
gnarfacehmm02:45
meep_____gnarface: the issue is not of cpu-scheduling sleep02:45
meep_____It's that it seems to be using comparable cpu to actual productive programs02:45
meep_____And I'm on a laptop with a limited power budget02:45
meep_____The less power wasted the longer I can be productive on my lappy02:46
gnarfaceit does make sense02:46
gnarfacei wonder if it could be affected by a kernel parameter02:47
gnarfaceer, i mean a kernel build option02:47
gnarfacetickless? dynticks?  something like that02:48
meep_____I'm running the default amd64 4.19 kernel02:49
gnarfacecome to think of it, there's probably a number of things you could change to optimize for power savings if you rebuilt it02:49
meep_____I don't really know what tickless and dynticks are02:49
meep_____gnarface: I'd be very interested in that02:49
gnarfacewell i'm not sure if it's on or not by default but it might not be02:49
gnarfacebasically it's supposed to just skip clock ticks when nothing is happening, i think02:49
meep_____What is? Tickless or dynticks02:50
gnarfacei think it's the same thing but i'm not sure which word will be easier to find i the menuconfig interface02:50
meep_____Can the same level of improvement by had by adding default cmdlines into /etc/default/grub rather than building from scratch?02:50
gnarfaceif it's not on by default i think not02:51
gnarfacei mean if it's not built-in i think not but i could be wrong02:51
meep_____ยป <gnarface> come to think of it, there's probably a number of things you could change to optimize for power savings if you rebuilt it03:13
meep_____Do you have any further information on this? Perhaps an article you wrote or others have written?03:13
gnarfacenah i didn't write any of it down03:13
gnarfacei just browsed the options with menuconfig03:14
gnarfacepainstakingly and item by item03:14
gnarfacei didn't understand most of it, but i'm sure someone does03:17
gnarfacewhat i can tell you is that even if you don't understand most of it, you'll still understand some of it03:19
gnarfaceconsider changing the default cpu frequency governor in the power management section...03:21
gnarfaceenable some extra ones as modules to give yourself options..03:21
gnarfaceremove all unused hardware support... change cpu specs to be more specific to the device you have03:22
stiltrYou can also try asking over on #gentoo. Lots of kernel building there.03:22
gnarfacerecompile it with -Os instead of -O203:22
gnarface... change default brightness... all stuff that could save battery life... wont help with sleep though03:23
stiltrAlso, I'd suggest making your changes in batches so you know which setting was the problem when it won't boot anymore.03:23
stiltrGood suggestions by gnarface though. Definitely start there.03:23
gnarfacei could imagine some values for paging/schedulers tuning could have different outcomes for battery life, but i don't know any of that stuff well enough to mess with it safely03:23
gnarfacemaybe some sort of swap tuning too03:24
stiltrIf it's got a spinning disk, probably a fair amount of tweaking to be done there as well.03:25
gnarfacedefinitely somewhere near CONFIG_HZ in the menus there was something about a tickless system03:25
gnarfacei think it was a multi-choice option where you could have a partially or fully tickless system instead of just having a static clock rate (250 by default in the debian kernel, btw, which is more intended for servers)03:26
gnarfaceturning it up for a mobile device probably won't help your battery but very well might help your UI latency03:27
gnarfacesome window managers may have optimization techniques too03:36
gnarfaceenlightenment lets you set a framerate cap03:36
meep_____gnarface: nconfig is a better interface than menuconfig in my opinion04:23
meep_____You should try it sometime if you have ncurses04:23
meep_____Or xconfig if you have qt04:24
meep_____There's also a gtk2 interface but the qt kernel configurator is better04:24
im663Hi there, I recently switched to Devuan, and also switched my sources.list to use testing instead of beowulf06:46
im663Everytime, I do a apt update, I get two errors: "Err:4 http://deb.devuan.org/merged testing-security InRelease06:47
im663  403  Forbidden [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]06:47
im663"06:47
im663and "E: Failed to fetch http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/testing-security/InRelease  403  Forbidden [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]"06:47
im663Is there any way to fix this, or is it normal?06:47
im663My sources file is exactly the same as stock, however I replaced all of the instances of beowulf with testing06:48
AgrisTesting does not have security updates06:49
AgrisIt is testing06:49
AgrisAnd testing is not the same thing as beowulf06:49
im663So it's normal to see that error?06:49
im663Or should I just comment the security repo entries?06:52
golinuxim663: Use the release name in your sources list not the suite.07:02
golinuxto fix the error run apt update and answer yes.07:02
golinuxOops. misread I think.07:03
im663I ran an update, after commenting out the security updates section and not getting the error anymore07:03
golinuxUse chimaera instead of testing07:03
im663I had no idea that testing didn't recieve security updates07:04
golinuxYou will get a surprise when bulleye goes stabe and we are still testing if you sue suites in sources07:04
im663Isn't Chimaera just testing???07:05
golinuxYes07:05
im663Perhaps I need to use the codename instead of testing07:05
im663Ahhhhh I see07:05
golinuxRead this page https://devuan.org/os/releases07:06
golinuxInfo is also here in short form . . . https://devuan.org/os/packages07:06
im663Peculiar, because if I use testing, it properly fetches and allows me to update all the packages07:08
im663Just not the security packages07:08
im663Switched to chimaera and now I'm getting: "Err:5 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-security Release404  Not Found [IP: 195.85.215.180 80]"07:11
ffurrywolI thing only stable and older gets a security.07:15
ffurrywolbbl07:15
ffurrywolfor testing and unstable, a security fix just gets pushed as a regular package update.07:16
im663Ahhh I see, that makes sense07:16
golinuxYes.  You still won't get security but you will save yourself much grief when bullseye goes stable and we are still testing for months after that..07:16
im663Does that potentially leave my machine less secure?07:17
im663Any security differences between stable/testing/unstable?07:17
golinuxI don't even know what comes after bullseye07:17
golinuxRead furry's comment07:17
im663Okay so they should be the same in terms of security07:18
golinuxYes07:18
im663Awesome thank you all07:19
golinuxYW07:19
golinuxEnjoy!!07:19
bgustavI use chimaera too (+ lxqt). It's great, the only problem I ever had was that network-manager stopped working after an update but the next day another update came and everything was working again07:25
roo^ymy fanless mele pc had crashed with a new install of beowulf when i'd let it idle for a long time (overnight to next evening). This week i've been using a new "install" of easy os 2.3.3, from a USB stick. It's been solid, not behaving like an extreme eco warrior OS! :D *disclaimer: The EasyOS creator is a tech blogger I copied for the purchase of the same hardware. It'd be interesting to see if new debian is stable on it11:37
AgrisEvery time I take this thing completely apart i'm left with ~2 or more screws12:46
AgrisOunce i'm done putting it back together12:46
djphit's more efficient now.12:46
openbsdt1i123hi12:55
openbsdt1i123startxfce4 is buggy on ascii and failing to start.12:55
openbsdt1i123the worksaround is to start with slim.12:55
openbsdt1i123But note, that the startxfce4 works well on slackware ;) !12:56
openbsdt1i123slackware is reaally relisable.12:56
openbsdt1i123there is plus on ascii and buster: mkfs.ext3 that cannot format sandisk usb pendrive like sdc1 and sdc2, it fails and hangs on last steps of formatting. still unfixe.d12:56
openbsdt1i123there are numerous bugs on buster and ascii amd64. These bugs are residents as well in debian.12:57
openbsdt1i123thank you very much for qt56-teamviewer !!13:23
openbsdt1i123it seems that teamviewer is not suited for devuan14:47
openbsdt1i123teamnvierwer monitoring asks for sysctl14:47
buZzsysctl is provided on devuan14:47
buZzwhat does it actually ask?14:47
openbsdt1i123no GUI will start with teamviwewer14:47
buZz-with- teamviewer? isnt that just that VNC clone with MiTM attacks?14:48
openbsdt1i123teamviewer is the trojan closed source, and criminal software. zeah14:48
buZzcool14:48
buZzthen a) what is your actual 'sysctl' error?14:48
openbsdt1i123yesah for desktop remote over net.14:48
buZzand b) what are you trying to do , why isnt a gui already running before you start teamviewer's remote control?14:49
openbsdt1i123dpkg error procvessing package teamviewr montiorring subprocess intaleld post installation script return errore exit statur 127 erro e... var lib dpk gin fon teaivwer montironign postingst line 221 szystemclt command not found.14:49
buZzsudo apt install systemctl14:50
buZz...14:50
buZzso thats a) solved14:50
buZzand b) ?14:50
openbsdt1i123unable to located pakckage systemctl14:50
buZzsystemctl/stable-backports,stable-backports 1.4.4147-1~bpo10+1 all14:50
buZz  daemonless "systemctl" command to manage services without systemd14:50
buZztry a apt update? :D14:51
buZzoh, maybe you need to add backports14:51
buZzare you perhaps not on beowulf?14:51
openbsdt1i123here the apt output https://termbin.com/ip6614:52
openbsdt1i123I have asicci14:52
buZzwhy so old :D14:52
buZzbut ; https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf-backports/systemctl_1.4.4147-1~bpo10+1.html14:52
buZzits in beowulf-backports14:52
buZzupgrade to beowulf and add backports repo14:52
openbsdt1i123do you have a sources list_??14:52
buZzascii is very old, why are you still running it?14:52
openbsdt1i123I will try then with debootstrap14:53
buZzover 2 years old now :)14:53
buZzdeb http://nl.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib14:53
buZzdeb http://nl.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main non-free contrib14:53
openbsdt1i123debootrap --arch amd64 beowurlf . http>//be.deb.devuan.org/merged     is this site still ok??14:54
openbsdt1i123ok14:54
openbsdt1i123thx14:54
openbsdt1i123i know that I alsreadz managed with teamviewer wwith installation of kde on asciii14:56
openbsdt1i123but I cannot remeber the package that was neceessary14:56
openbsdt1i123... :(14:56
buZzdocumentation is nice to write and saves you from forgetting stuff ;)15:02
Joril(I THINK you should be using just deb.devuan.org)15:10
openbsdt1i123here the ultimage documentatin16:00
openbsdt1i123documenst is C...16:00
openbsdt1i123config.c   http://termbin.com/fpxg16:01
openbsdt1i123I tried to install teamviewer on debian DVD KDE stable, but after installation of kde. thre is ldconfig is not present at all.20:02
openbsdt1i123teamviwer does not installation on debian , so likely it will end the same story since devuan is a clone of it.20:03
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123 there's more secure ways to share your desktop anyway20:04
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123 a properly configured VNC server might have less features but will share a read-only view of the desktop to multiple users just as well as teamviewer, without having to go outside of the repos20:05
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123 (do make sure you've configured it so they can only view)20:05
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123 if you only need to share it with 1 user though, all you need is ffmpeg and netcat20:06
tuxd3vopenbsdt1i123, debian doesn't ship ldconfig?20:06
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123 (swap netcat for openssh if you need to secure the connection)20:07
tuxd3vopenbsdt1i123, ldconfig is part of package: libc-bin20:08
kreyrenHow do i get keepassxc-cli on my devuan?22:02
debdogon Beowulf, apt* install keepassxc   https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=keepassxc-cli&mode=exactfilename&suite=stable&arch=any22:06
debdogkreyren: ^22:07
kreyrendebdog, i'm on chimaera and the expected is not present22:08
kreyrenah keepassxc not installed22:08
kreyreni am using the appimage >.<22:08
kreyrendebdog, thanks ^-^22:09
debdoghehe22:09

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