| gnarface | suavedandy: yes, /etc/modprobe.d/ ... the file just has to end with .conf | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| \0xc0ffee | Well, on that note, I do have my copy of K&R I should dust off and get back to reading | 00:04 |
| suavedandy | It's not the first time I ripped the beep of a kernel. I always create nobeep.conf for every system. | 00:04 |
| suavedandy | It's a bit annoying that the > operator does not work on system files if you're not root. | 00:05 |
| suavedandy | It's such a nifty operator. | 00:06 |
| gnarface | hmm. i think that is probably for security | 00:06 |
| gnarface | you can chain commands with su though | 00:06 |
| gnarface | or sudo | 00:06 |
| gnarface | (i try to use su first and avoid sudo if possible) | 00:06 |
| suavedandy | Avoid sudo? | 00:06 |
| gnarface | yea, for a machine that only you access, sudo is entirely functionally redundant to su, and therefore a unnecessary security risk | 00:06 |
| suavedandy | BTW, guys. Have you thought about adding doas? | 00:06 |
| gnarface | everything in devuan is there because debian put it there | 00:06 |
| gnarface | devuan does not add to debian, only removes | 00:06 |
| gnarface | that defines devuan | 00:06 |
| mason | or swaps | 00:06 |
| gnarface | well, yes my statement is a vast oversimplification | 00:06 |
| suavedandy | Also. How do you shutdown without a password without sudo? I mean, on systemd systems you could systemctl poweroff with polkit but… | 00:07 |
| gnarface | in practice, most the packages are identical to debian, a few are patched, and a few others are removed | 00:07 |
| mason | suavedandy: Don't shut down without a password! | 00:07 |
| suavedandy | But I want to shutdown without a password. | 00:07 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: (see here for removed packages: http://deb.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt) | 00:08 |
| suavedandy | Also, if sudo is redundant, can you, like, delete it? | 00:08 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: well, yes but uninstall it, don't just delete the files, that leaves makes a mess | 00:08 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: apt-get --purge remove sudo | 00:09 |
| mason | suavedandy: sudo has a purpose even on single-user systems - it'll give you a time buffer where you can do things as root without having to type your password more than once | 00:09 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: or apt-get purge sudo (newer syntax) | 00:09 |
| suavedandy | Will aptitude purge -y sudo also work? | 00:09 |
| mason | shorter still, sudo apt purge sudo | 00:09 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: i'm not as familiar with aptitude, but use whatever you're comfortable with. if you purge, it's supposed to also remove config files. if you just remove, it would leave them behind. | 00:10 |
| suavedandy | Also, I don't have a seperate root account. | 00:10 |
| suavedandy | Should I also create a root password and delete myself from sudoers? | 00:11 |
| suavedandy | Or does the %sudo group disappear after purging? | 00:12 |
| gnarface | well | 00:13 |
| gnarface | sudo isn't AS dangerous if you configure it right | 00:14 |
| gnarface | it's much worse if you use NOPASSWD | 00:14 |
| suavedandy | So. I just purge sudo, reboot and that's it? | 00:15 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:15 |
| gnarface | as your regular user, type this first: su - | 00:15 |
| gnarface | what does it give you? | 00:15 |
| gnarface | a password prompt, right? | 00:15 |
| gnarface | or an error? | 00:15 |
| gnarface | i don't want to actually cripple your system and i've literally never put myself in the position you're in | 00:16 |
| suavedandy | A password promt. | 00:16 |
| gnarface | it honestly might be better for now for you to just keep sudo and read the sudoers manpage | 00:16 |
| suavedandy | Then an error. | 00:16 |
| gnarface | a password declined error, because you entered your user's password? | 00:16 |
| gnarface | or some other error? | 00:16 |
| gnarface | i don't remember the error, i need you to tell me what it says | 00:17 |
| gnarface | if it's just a password declined error, run this first: sudo passwd | 00:18 |
| suavedandy | Identity check error. | 00:18 |
| gnarface | hmm | 00:18 |
| suavedandy | I don't have a root password. | 00:18 |
| gnarface | if you run "sudo passwd" does it ask you for the root password to set a root password, or does it just ask you what you want to set the root password to? | 00:19 |
| suavedandy | It asks me for my password. | 00:19 |
| gnarface | sorry, i mean after that | 00:20 |
| gnarface | after sudo asks you for your password, what does passwd ask you for? | 00:20 |
| suavedandy | A new password. | 00:20 |
| gnarface | a new root password, right? | 00:20 |
| gnarface | ideally it should be something different from the user's password, but doing so would make it no less secure than what you have now | 00:21 |
| suavedandy | It just says "New password:" | 00:21 |
| gnarface | yea | 00:21 |
| suavedandy | I have a localization so I dunno. | 00:21 |
| gnarface | alright, if you want to be sure, ctrl+c that out, and instead start over as your user with this command: sudo su - | 00:22 |
| gnarface | then, at the prompt that comes up just run "passwd" | 00:22 |
| suavedandy | Is - necessary? | 00:22 |
| gnarface | i mean, i'm assuming that prompt will obviously be a root prompt | 00:22 |
| gnarface | yes, the "-" was there intentionally | 00:22 |
| gnarface | ("-" in this context tells it to inherit root's environment too) | 00:23 |
| suavedandy | Should the password be something different? | 00:23 |
| gnarface | yes, like i said, the root password should be something different for security, but if you make it the same as your regular user it would be no less secure than the way you had it | 00:24 |
| gnarface | and if multiple people use this machine, telling everyone both passwords also makes it no more secure | 00:24 |
| suavedandy | I also have an encryption key. | 00:25 |
| gnarface | having a separate root password is only useful for security of a shared machine if the root password is a secret | 00:25 |
| gnarface | otherwise you might as well just use sudo | 00:25 |
| suavedandy | That's a personal computer, obv. | 00:26 |
| gnarface | i'm assuming the encryption key is only relevant to network connections, be aware that physical access is much less well defended | 00:26 |
| suavedandy | And you said that sudo is redundant for a single-user PC. | 00:27 |
| gnarface | yea, because it's primarily for not having to remember two passwords | 00:28 |
| gnarface | but you could just set both passwords to the same thing and you still don't have to remember two passwords | 00:28 |
| gnarface | so it's stupid | 00:28 |
| suavedandy | Heheh. | 00:28 |
| suavedandy | You're right. | 00:28 |
| \0xc0ffee | gnarface: NOPASSWD is useful in a small number of cases where it behaves approximately analogous to Windows UAC, that is, 'sudo su - ' drops you to a root shell without having to enter a password, let alone reusing the same password as your non-root account. | 00:29 |
| suavedandy | Okay, "su -" works now. | 00:30 |
| \0xc0ffee | But I only use that configuration on VMs I spin up for testing this or that, and they're not on the internet | 00:30 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: should be safe to purge sudo then now | 00:30 |
| gnarface | \0xc0ffee: to be fair, you're right; what i'm glossing over is my own personal policy of considering that a banned configuration | 00:31 |
| suavedandy | How do I use commands with root privs now? | 00:31 |
| \0xc0ffee | Apropos to the folks behind Devuan, making it possible and useable - a hefty thank you, because I do use it and it neatly lets me avoid touching CentOS | 00:31 |
| suavedandy | Is it like "su command?" | 00:32 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: if you just use "su -" you get a root prompt | 00:32 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: su -c '[command]' | 00:33 |
| \0xc0ffee | gnarface: And you wouldn't be alone in that position, it's a sane position to take | 00:33 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: i think | 00:33 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: also you can pick users other than root if you know their passwords, i think it's: su -u [user] or su -l [user] something like that. check the man page | 00:33 |
| fsmithred | even su user works | 00:34 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: it can be used to run commands one at a time like sudo, but the default action is to just give you the root prompt | 00:34 |
| suavedandy | Alright. | 00:35 |
| suavedandy | sudo group still exists. And I'm still in %sudo. sudo is purged. | 00:35 |
| gnarface | heh | 00:35 |
| gnarface | harmless, but you can remove it manually from /etc/group if you like | 00:37 |
| suavedandy | Will it remove that group from every user as well? | 00:37 |
| gnarface | or check the deluser man page for syntax on how to use tools for it | 00:37 |
| gnarface | if you look at the /etc/group file you'll see it has a very obvious plain syntax | 00:38 |
| gnarface | it's frankly easier to edit by hand than it is to learn to use the tools but maybe read it and the deluser man page both first before you decide | 00:38 |
| gnarface | if you make a mistake you can mess up the system obviously | 00:38 |
| suavedandy | So. I just delete the line starting with "sudo?" | 00:40 |
| suavedandy | Chill, mate. I survived editing fstab. | 00:40 |
| gnarface | yes, and delete the "sudo" from the line that starts with your own user name | 00:40 |
| gnarface | and any other lines actually | 00:40 |
| gnarface | but i'm assuming that's the only two it appears on | 00:40 |
| \0xc0ffee | Editing fstab without killing your system - rite of passage | 00:40 |
| suavedandy | Heheh. | 00:41 |
| gnarface | and obviously any redundant or trailing commas in there, delete them too | 00:41 |
| gnarface | there's a man page for that file as well | 00:42 |
| gnarface | not a long read | 00:42 |
| gnarface | log out for changes to take effect | 00:43 |
| suavedandy | Actually, there's only one line with sudo as the keyword search says. | 00:45 |
| suavedandy | Are you referring to the commas which end every line that doesn't end with my username? | 00:47 |
| suavedandy | Oh, wait, those are semicolons. | 00:47 |
| suavedandy | Silly me. | 00:47 |
| suavedandy | I need some sleep. | 00:48 |
| suavedandy | Lovely. The sudo group gone. | 00:49 |
| suavedandy | Can you write "aptitude install -y -R" like "aptitude install -yR?" | 00:55 |
| suavedandy | I know it's not pacman but I thought… | 00:55 |
| gnarface | i dunno, check the man page for that type of thing | 00:56 |
| gnarface | it varies from program to program | 00:56 |
| gnarface | some of them use a common library for command-line parsing and some of them roll their own | 00:56 |
| Wafficus | 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config' seems cool. Is this used to setup email from the looks of it right? Like to retrieve IMAP based mail locally? | 00:58 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: it's for setting up the main mail daemon for most typical configurations | 01:00 |
| Wafficus | I had the same thing happen earlier with the "Beep" noise for my comp | 01:00 |
| Wafficus | I didn't enable it in the alsamixer | 01:00 |
| Wafficus | would this be because of a recent Devuan update | 01:01 |
| Wafficus | ? | 01:01 |
| Wafficus | just checking | 01:01 |
| Wafficus | if not, no worries | 01:01 |
| gnarface | could be, usually a kernel update i think | 01:01 |
| Wafficus | I ask because I did "sudo rmmod pcspkr" which removed it thankfully | 01:01 |
| gnarface | the beep might or might not be coming from the default alsa device, it varies for different hardware | 01:01 |
| gnarface | usually not actually except for laptops i think | 01:02 |
| Wafficus | i'm on a laptop, might be why | 01:04 |
| suavedandy | So I've tested "sudo -c [command]" | 01:13 |
| suavedandy | It works only with a hyphem at the end. Don't know why. | 01:13 |
| suavedandy | Like this: "su -c [command] -" | 01:14 |
| gnarface | i'm guessing whatever command you're running requires not just root permission, but also some part of the root environment, which the "-" is a shorthand version of the syntax for inheriting | 01:18 |
| gnarface | maybe it's just the path though, which could be embedded into [command] instead | 01:18 |
| gnarface | depends on what you run | 01:19 |
| suavedandy | So adding a hyphem is the safest option? | 01:23 |
| gnarface | yes | 01:23 |
| gnarface | it can be before the "-c" can't it? | 01:24 |
| gnarface | otherwise you might want to make sure to put [command] within delimiters like ' or something | 01:24 |
| suavedandy | You don't have to put your command in delimiters? | 01:25 |
| gnarface | not strictly speaking, no, but it is a good idea | 01:26 |
| suavedandy | I thought you have to put them in delimiters anyway. Unless it's a one-word command. | 01:26 |
| gnarface | well if you put the "-" before the "-c" then maybe you don't at all | 01:26 |
| gnarface | like this: su - -c passwd | 01:27 |
| suavedandy | That's a lot of hyphems. | 01:27 |
| gnarface | not sure, honestly, i forget what happened last time i was messing with it too, but that's the type of thing where it has enough ambiguity that behavior could change from place to place too | 01:27 |
| gnarface | ah, yea "-" is the short version of "--login" | 01:28 |
| gnarface | you should really read that man page | 01:28 |
| suavedandy | I did. Not much info. | 01:35 |
| gnarface | well there's not much to know | 01:43 |
| gnarface | but maybe some of it lacks the context you need | 01:44 |
| pav5088 | are there any chimaera test images to try yet? | 02:36 |
| gnarface | pav5088: you could upgrade from a beowulf install to test. dunno if anyone has built installers yet. | 02:40 |
| pav5088 | Might give a minimal net install a go | 02:42 |
| golinux | fsmithred might have some live chimaera isos for testing on the refracta site | 02:45 |
| Wafficus | hi there, can anyone help me figure out why my sound doesn't work after doing 'sudo rmmod pcspkr'? | 02:54 |
| Wafficus | I have all the volume up on all the relevant sections on alsamixer | 02:54 |
| gnarface | hmm, weird | 02:55 |
| gnarface | change of default device order screwing with alsa config perhaps? | 02:56 |
| Wafficus | no idea to be honest | 02:58 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: if you leave it blacklisted and then reboot, does it still not work after the reboot? | 03:01 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: i mean, you said it was a laptop though? it could be possible it actually needs the pcspkr driver to work | 03:03 |
| Wafficus | I got it to stop working by doing the following | 03:03 |
| Wafficus | '/set trigger.trigger.beep.enabled off' | 03:04 |
| Wafficus | in Weechat | 03:04 |
| gnarface | oh, well that'll disable the beep in irc anyway | 03:04 |
| Wafficus | however, now I just want my sound back :/ | 03:04 |
| gnarface | doesn't start working again if you just modprobe pcspkr? | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | idk | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | ping me again | 03:05 |
| gnarface | Wafficus: . | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | * on this IRC channel | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | yeah no pc speaker | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | thank God | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | that was so annoying | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | beyond annoying | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | way too loud too | 03:05 |
| Wafficus | anyway, but yeah idk about the general sound though now | 03:05 |
| gnarface | some laptops have a "beep" volume in alsamixer even, you said yours doesn't? | 03:06 |
| Wafficus | got it | 03:06 |
| Wafficus | it was "PCM" that was all the way down | 03:06 |
| Wafficus | dumb on my part | 03:07 |
| Wafficus | sorry about that | 03:07 |
| gnarface | ah, PCM is important | 03:07 |
| gnarface | that's kinda like the main one, though some devices also have a "main" somewhat redundantly | 03:07 |
| Wafficus | yeah that's what threw me off ha | 03:07 |
| no_9 | avast devuanistas! :) | 07:02 |
| no_9 | Devuan Jessie <----no longer supported? no updates, repositories no longer online? | 07:03 |
| lastebil | erm, last I looked there were still repos? | 07:22 |
| lastebil | yeah, I'm seeing the jessie things in the pkgmaster.devuan.org repo | 07:22 |
| lastebil | and the mirrors definately hvae the install media. Not sure where you got the idea that they were removed. | 07:23 |
| no_9 | so---i must change my sources-list? | 07:24 |
| lastebil | as for updates, I can't speak to that. | 07:24 |
| lastebil | well if you are using a mirror that dropped them, yes. | 07:24 |
| lastebil | leaseweb at least shows them. but you should look at the mirrorlist and see. maybe there's something ELSE going on in your case. | 07:25 |
| lastebil | https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan#iso-guide-for-i386-and-amd64 < mirrorlists here. | 07:25 |
| lastebil | updating to ascii shouldn't be that painful, however. But it's been some time since I did that. I'm using Beowulf now. | 07:26 |
| * lastebil must run | 07:27 | |
| no_9 | https://privatebin.net/?2ba898308f3fc38c#14UBBD59xSotArZTZqh3nnm3VX253BVPVmYsZ1KS6RSa | 07:31 |
| no_9 | that was working til recently | 07:32 |
| gnarface | no_9: it's been deprecated for a really long time | 07:49 |
| gnarface | no_9: (the old hostnames i assume are in your sources.list, that is) | 07:50 |
| no_9 | gnarface, so, it cant be updaTED? | 07:50 |
| gnarface | no_9: no i mean the hostnames are deprecated | 07:50 |
| no_9 | did you look at that pastebin? | 07:51 |
| gnarface | no_9: no, and i'm not going to, but if it's not using deb.devuan.org it's probably not going to work | 07:51 |
| gnarface | no_9: there's info somewhere on the forum about the update | 07:51 |
| no_9 | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main contrib non-free | 07:51 |
| no_9 | 1st line | 07:52 |
| gnarface | what did i just tell you? | 07:52 |
| gnarface | you should be able to upgrade jessie->ascii->beowulf but you have to use the right hostname | 07:52 |
| no_9 | that irc is a hideous hellpit of grouchy wankers? :) | 07:53 |
| gnarface | jessie-security and jessie-updates are down i think though, i think only jessie-main is up still | 07:53 |
| gnarface | well "main" i mean, obviously there is no actual "jessie-main" | 07:53 |
| gnarface | that's not the error that's preventing you from upgrading though | 07:54 |
| no_9 | i dont want to upgrade this install | 07:54 |
| gnarface | oh, i thought that's what this was about | 07:55 |
| no_9 | i have ascii 64 bit on another partition but right now it wont boot | 07:55 |
| gnarface | if you just wanted to get the last updates from jessie-security, sorry you're too late | 07:55 |
| no_9 | ok ty | 07:55 |
| gnarface | but really, use deb.devuan.org, that hostname you're using has been deprecated for a long while now | 07:56 |
| no_9 | it worked 2 weeks ago | 07:56 |
| no_9 | maybe 3 | 07:56 |
| gnarface | it really didn't, it only seemed like that | 07:56 |
| gnarface | but there was a more recent change that cut it off compeltely | 07:57 |
| gnarface | completely* | 07:57 |
| no_9 | well stuff downloaded | 07:57 |
| gnarface | the old hostname pointed to some stale mirrors that partially worked sometimes. you probably were still missing updates | 07:57 |
| Junicchi | sup | 16:10 |
| Junicchi | what is the equivalent of command "systemctl disable" on sysvinit? | 16:11 |
| Junicchi | how can i disable a service | 16:11 |
| mason | Junicchi: update-rc.d <service> disable | 16:11 |
| djph | ^ | 16:11 |
| mason | and then service <service> stop to stop the running service | 16:11 |
| Junicchi | thanks a lot | 16:14 |
| fremen2001 | why on earth did ppl create sytemd? -_-‘ | 16:18 |
| r3boot | fremen2001: #devuan-offtopic, plz | 16:18 |
| r3boot | Junicchi: sysvinit works with init scripts under /etc/init.d, and symlinks to these scripts under /etc/rc?.d/. Links are prefixed with S???, where S means 'start' and ??? is a sequence number | 16:19 |
| r3boot | Eg, find /etc/rc?.d -name 'S*<yourscript>' -exec rm -vf {} \; should also fix it | 16:20 |
| mason | and then "env -i /etc/init.d/service stop" to max out the convolution | 16:22 |
| brocashelm | fremen2001: so devuan could exist, obviously | 16:25 |
| fremen2001 | :) | 16:26 |
| openbsdtai123 | fremen2001: is fremen from dune I, sega cd? | 16:40 |
| fremen2001 | is from dune yes...from the book | 16:41 |
| Junicchi | r3boot: just realized that | 16:43 |
| ham5urg | I'm running a Devuan LXC container inside a Devuan host. When I start or stop the container my syslog is pumped up with https://paste.debian.net/1161150/ some Apparmor error. I've found this with the same problem: https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/3-0-1-apparmor-denied-mount-lxc-container-default-cgns/2160/7 and there is said that something inside the container trys to remount something which Apparmor prohibits. What could it | 16:49 |
| ham5urg | be? | 16:49 |
| r3boot | something inside your lxc container tries to do mount; Find that, and disable it -> done :) | 16:52 |
| ham5urg | r3boot, how? It's a plain devuan container with nothing installed in it. Even fstab is empty | 16:54 |
| ham5urg | Could I set a trigger when mount is called? | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | put a wrapper around it? | 16:56 |
| r3boot | ham5urg: grep -R 'mount' /etc/* <-- would be a good start imho | 17:02 |
| ham5urg | Thanks for that | 17:09 |
| ham5urg | How could a mount inside the container trigger some error outside of it? | 17:09 |
| r3boot | because the mount command calls the mount() syscall, which in turn triggers an apparmor event, which in turn denies the mount() syscall | 17:10 |
| ham5urg | So this is not a bug, neither in LXC nor in Devuan. | 17:11 |
| ham5urg | Maybe I can live with that, the container is a long running one. It won't pump the logs up in production mode. | 17:12 |
| suavedandy | Guys. Can you use flatpaks/snaps/third-parties or is that ILLEGAL? | 17:25 |
| djph | suavedandy: why would it be "illegal" ? | 17:26 |
| fsmithred | I think the first two require systemd and the third depends on which one you're talking about | 17:26 |
| suavedandy | Require systemd? But I have flatpak installed. | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | installed in what? beowulf? | 17:27 |
| suavedandy | Yep. | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | what's the actual package name? I can't find it. | 17:28 |
| suavedandy | Do you guys use ASCII because it's like CentOS or something? | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | nm, found it | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | huh? | 17:28 |
| suavedandy | LTS, I mean. | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | we use ASCII (the name) because it's the name of a minor planet | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | the OS is debian stretch without systemd | 17:29 |
| fsmithred | currently oldstable | 17:29 |
| suavedandy | Do people use oldstable for long-term support? | 17:29 |
| suavedandy | As in on servers? | 17:29 |
| fsmithred | yeah, but not because they install oldstable | 17:29 |
| suavedandy | Oh. | 17:29 |
| fsmithred | more like they don't really want to upgrade | 17:30 |
| suavedandy | They don't? | 17:30 |
| suavedandy | Ah. | 17:30 |
| suavedandy | I get it. | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | you're talking to someone who has a wheezy server | 17:30 |
| suavedandy | How cumbersome is it for sysadmins to upgrade oldstable? | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | because it runs some software that can't be upgraded to a newer debian or devuan | 17:30 |
| suavedandy | Ah. | 17:30 |
| brocashelm | i understand stable/old stable/etc. for servers and niche computing in general, because doing major upgrades can be a major annoyance | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | yup | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | stuff can break | 17:31 |
| suavedandy | And I'm on Beowulf instead of Chimaera. | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | and I'm sure plenty of IT teams are under-staffed | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | beowulf is current stable | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | chimaera is working surprisingly well for devuan testing | 17:32 |
| suavedandy | Is it good for desktop? | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | someone got a head start on forking packages | 17:32 |
| brocashelm | i'm using ceres on my desktop, though | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I've got it on a laptop and it's working | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | not much difference between chimaera and ceres right now | 17:32 |
| brocashelm | little to no problems; very stable in my experience | 17:32 |
| suavedandy | Talking about Beowulf. Maybe I made a wrong choise. | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | why? | 17:33 |
| suavedandy | Because I don't run it on a server. | 17:33 |
| fsmithred | I don't understand | 17:33 |
| suavedandy | Isn't testing more suitable for desktop? | 17:33 |
| brocashelm | i don't mind getting closer to upstream | 17:33 |
| suavedandy | Or nah? | 17:33 |
| fsmithred | testing is suitable for testing | 17:33 |
| fsmithred | not for actual use | 17:34 |
| suavedandy | Fair enough. | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | if it's working brilliantly today, you can rest assured that it will break soon | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | and then get fixed again | 17:34 |
| suavedandy | Is testing rolling? | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | testing is testing | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | it's not an official release | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | new packages/versions go int ceres/sid/unstable | 17:35 |
| fsmithred | and then after a week or two they move to testing | 17:35 |
| brocashelm | yup | 17:35 |
| fsmithred | at some point, testing freezes and no new versions move into it. Only fixes. | 17:35 |
| fsmithred | And then after some months of that, testing is moved to stable. That happens in Debian long before Devuan catches up. | 17:35 |
| brocashelm | it's still nice to have choice | 17:35 |
| suavedandy | Alright, I'll stay on stable. Too lazy to upgrade every week. | 17:36 |
| fsmithred | lol | 17:36 |
| fsmithred | good choice | 17:36 |
| fsmithred | beowulf works well | 17:36 |
| brocashelm | i love upgrades :) | 17:36 |
| suavedandy | And I don't. I prefer working and being productive. | 17:36 |
| brocashelm | and i also do those | 17:37 |
| suavedandy | Once a month is reasonable to me. | 17:37 |
| suavedandy | Does flatpak really require Systemd tho? It installed just fine. | 17:39 |
| suavedandy | Hm. | 17:39 |
| suavedandy | Can't find snapcraft tho. | 17:40 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried it, so I don't really know. I seem to recall that something is missing. | 17:41 |
| ShorTie | are all nic's suppost to come up either ethX and/or wlanX ?? | 17:42 |
| ShorTie | in /sys/class/net that tis | 17:42 |
| suavedandy | My laptop is fairly recent and Buster/Beowulf seem to be working excellent. Amazing. | 17:43 |
| suavedandy | Why is stable called Beowulf tho? | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | ShorTie, usb dongle wireless will come up as wl<mac-address> | 17:44 |
| brocashelm | beowulf is current stable | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | because it's a minor planet that begins with B | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | and we liked the name | 17:44 |
| suavedandy | I see. | 17:44 |
| brocashelm | alphabetical order, too | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | yes, so it's a little bit predictable | 17:45 |
| suavedandy | B uster, B eowulf. | 17:45 |
| fsmithred | no, buster is irrelevant | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | jessie was jessie in both debian and devuan | 17:46 |
| suavedandy | What was before ASCII tho? | 17:46 |
| brocashelm | jessie | 17:46 |
| suavedandy | Huh. | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | then ascii, beowulf chimaera daedalus, then I don't know | 17:46 |
| suavedandy | Calling releases after planets? Now that's romantic. | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | https://devuan.org/os/releases | 17:47 |
| brocashelm | skimming through e, esther sounds good to me | 17:49 |
| suavedandy | Should have called Jessie… Zodiac or… something. | 17:50 |
| suavedandy | Are there planets starting with Z? | 17:50 |
| fsmithred | yes | 17:53 |
| fsmithred | list is linked on that page I posted | 17:54 |
| brocashelm | yeah, all the info is there | 17:54 |
| fsmithred | we might get to Z | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | if we use a letter every 2 years, we'll get to the end before the end of unix time. | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | no | 17:56 |
| fsmithred | that's backward | 17:56 |
| fsmithred | we won't even make it to M | 17:56 |
| suavedandy | Lol, Christian planet exists. Now we can have a truly Christian distro. | 18:04 |
| crashoverride | Temple OS is doomed. | 18:05 |
| crashoverride | The creator is dead. | 18:05 |
| suavedandy | Temple OS isn't a distro tho. | 18:05 |
| crashoverride | well technically, an OS is a distro too. | 18:05 |
| suavedandy | I believe it's made from ground up. | 18:05 |
| djph | quick someone fork it and call it ruin | 18:05 |
| crashoverride | :D | 18:05 |
| crashoverride | ohai djph | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | did you see my invite? | 18:06 |
| djph | j0 | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | ok | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | not trying to ruin #networked but I could use the new chan more :P | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | esp since I'm always in need of offtopic-ing and debugging at the same time. | 18:06 |
| djph | lol | 18:07 |
| suavedandy | Hmm. Android is technically a Linux distro. Makes you think… | 18:08 |
| DonkeyHotei | linux, yes. gnu/linux, no. | 18:08 |
| specing | makes me smile when people say they'd never run linux all the while waving an android phone around | 18:08 |
| DonkeyHotei | but actually, android is a linux OS, not a distro | 18:09 |
| specing | I guess what they don't know can't hurt them | 18:09 |
| crashoverride | suavedandy: there is a difference between distro and linux distro. | 18:12 |
| suavedandy | DonkeyHotei: Of course. I'm not saying. | 18:12 |
| crashoverride | distro just means "software distribution" | 18:12 |
| crashoverride | it does not necessarily include linux. | 18:12 |
| suavedandy | Hm. | 18:12 |
| DonkeyHotei | anyway, this discussion is for #debianfork and not this channel | 18:13 |
| suavedandy | I mean, yes but that's a very vague term when used with no context. | 18:13 |
| suavedandy | We're done anyway, Donkey. | 18:13 |
| suavedandy | Excuse us for… a slight derailing. | 18:14 |
| golinux | Silliness like the above makes me want to stop coming to this channel. Some behavioral restraint would be appreciated | 18:37 |
| linux_n | Devuan for installation is asking me me to load wifi firmware from romovable media. So i added iwlwifi firmware with deb extension but devuan does not seem to be able to read it. Firmware can't be read with .deb extension? | 19:57 |
| devuoom | hello, I have been experiencing Firefox ESR closing down (crashing) every time I approach running out of free memory | 19:57 |
| suavedandy | Do you guys have root using the same shell as your account or does it use bash/sh/ash? | 20:03 |
| yanmaani | you can use any shell | 20:04 |
| suavedandy | Also, do you think it's a good idea to set root to use a POSIX-compliant shell? | 20:04 |
| suavedandy | Or nah? | 20:04 |
| r3boot | on laptops, I use the same; On servers, root always has bash as a shell, with the option to sudo <wantedshell> for something else | 20:05 |
| yanmaani | it doesn't matter | 20:05 |
| fsmithred | linux_n, ignore that question. You'll get to add it later if you choose expert install, and you should get it automatically with regular install. | 20:05 |
| fsmithred | suavedandy, I think it's a good idea to leave defaults as they are unless there's a good reason to change it. | 20:06 |
| suavedandy | r3boot: Thanks. | 20:06 |
| r3boot | Oh, and it's not bash-perse (on servers), but whatever is the distro standard | 20:07 |
| suavedandy | Why do you use Bash for root on servers? Do you use Bash for your account here as well or something else? | 20:09 |
| suavedandy | Is there a specific reason? | 20:09 |
| linux_n | Thanks fsmithred. | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | I use bash because it's been the default for the past 20 years that I've been using linux. | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | I don't have to spend time learning something else. | 20:11 |
| fsmithred | linux_n, are you using wireless for the install or ethernet cable? | 20:11 |
| linux_n | wireless fsmithred | 20:12 |
| fsmithred | ok, let me know if you have trouble with it | 20:12 |
| linux_n | ok thanks fsmithred. | 20:13 |
| devuoom | is it normal for firefox-esr on devuan to close upon OOM even if there is still free swao? | 20:20 |
| devuoom | swap | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | my whole system locks up if I get near the end of ram because of firefox | 20:21 |
| yanmaani | same | 20:21 |
| fsmithred | esr or otherwise | 20:21 |
| devuoom | crap, that is bad news... what would a wise man do? | 20:22 |
| fsmithred | use lynx | 20:22 |
| devuoom | :D | 20:22 |
| fsmithred | buy more ram | 20:22 |
| fsmithred | use a lighter desktop if possible | 20:22 |
| devuoom | the issue is, any page/tab at any time could allocate a unholy amount of memory | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | do you use noscript? | 20:23 |
| devuoom | yep | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | I know that will save cpu, not sure about memory | 20:23 |
| devuoom | on windows and macos the browser will trash the pagefile and even freeze while it swaps but it wont stone cold crash | 20:24 |
| r3boot | using surf can be a way out | 20:24 |
| r3boot | but that wont render a lot of websites that well | 20:24 |
| fsmithred | links2 is pretty nice, too. Makes it look like 1995 | 20:25 |
| fsmithred | devuoom, how much ram do you have, and what desktop are you using? | 20:28 |
| devuoom | well, I have seen this behavior on xfce and kde under devuan | 20:29 |
| devuoom | I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the desktop environment or the distribution | 20:29 |
| devuoom | I am probably missing something | 20:29 |
| fsmithred | well, kde, gnome and cinnamon use huge amounts of ram | 20:29 |
| fsmithred | but I've seen the problem with xfce | 20:29 |
| fsmithred | often when I had 2G ram, occasionally now that I have 6 | 20:30 |
| devuoom | but a browser eating up all the memory of a system is something pretty normal, that is bound to a happend if you have 2GB or 8GB.... I just expected the browser memory management to be able to deal with it | 20:30 |
| fsmithred | You can reduce the number of content processes if your computer is running out of memory. | 20:32 |
| fsmithred | un-check "Use recommended perfomance settings." to expose that | 20:33 |
| fsmithred | there might be more in about:config | 20:34 |
| devuoom | this is interesting: | 20:39 |
| devuoom | about:cache?device=memory | 20:39 |
| devuoom | doesnt match top or ps tho | 20:40 |
| fsmithred | http://kb.mozillazine.org/Memory_Leak | 20:42 |
| fsmithred | my cache is currently using 455KiB but ps_mem.py says browser is using about 800MB | 20:47 |
| luser977 | update to ff 78.0.2esr from moz.com | 22:26 |
| luser977 | fsmithred: ^ | 22:26 |
| fsmithred | ? | 22:27 |
| luser977 | re: ff tweaks an hour ago | 22:28 |
| luser977 | beowulf has ff68.x, is bad. ff 78.0.2 esr is current | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | where is that version? | 22:30 |
| mason | Debian ships 68. | 22:31 |
| golinux | luser977: Get it directly from mozilla if you must have the latest and shiniest | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | 68.11.0esr-1 in chimaera/ceres and 79.0-1 plain ff in ceres | 22:35 |
| golinux | Yeah I'm still on 68.9.0esr | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | um, I remember when you were still on 48 | 22:35 |
| Jjp137 | according to this, 68.12 would probably be the last 68.x ESR version: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Calendar | 22:37 |
| Jjp137 | so really just wait a month and Debian will probably get 78.x-esr | 22:37 |
| Jjp137 | and then Devuan will get it too of course | 22:37 |
| luser977 | i got 78 from moz.com/org | 22:40 |
| luser977 | 68 trashes my disks on low ram machines | 22:40 |
| luser977 | 78.0.0 went to .1 then .2 in 25 days. .2 today. security update. | 22:42 |
| luser977 | 79.x on mobile seems to break a lot of things, and no downgrade patg | 22:44 |
| luser977 | *h | 22:44 |
| luser977 | such as adblock extensions | 22:44 |
| luser977 | to make ff less greedy, nice it +5, and use ulimits. it will then use it's own disk cache and trash disks but not freeze | 22:51 |
| aitor | hi | 22:52 |
| Guest37785 | are you talking about web browsers? | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | yeah, web hogs. | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | hi | 22:52 |
| Guest37785 | hi fsmithred | 22:53 |
| Guest37785 | i'm packaging iceweasel-uxp: https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:project:iceweasel-uxp | 22:54 |
| Guest37785 | the git repo is here: | 22:55 |
| Guest37785 | https://github.com/g4jc/iceweasel-uxp | 22:55 |
| Guest37785 | it's based on basilisk, by the same developers of Palemoon | 22:56 |
| fsmithred | wow, that sounds good | 22:58 |
| fsmithred | what about extensions/add-ons | 22:58 |
| fsmithred | ? | 22:58 |
| fsmithred | noscript | 22:58 |
| systemdlete | I removed ssmtp (after experimenting with it, and then reinstalling postfix), and it also removed logwatch along with it! | 23:00 |
| Guest37785 | here you are the list of addons: | 23:00 |
| Guest37785 | https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:project:iceweasel-uxp_addons | 23:00 |
| systemdlete | I noticed this morning I did not get my normal logwatch report, so I looked at history. | 23:00 |
| fsmithred | nice. Just unpack the latest tarball? | 23:02 |
| systemdlete | I can understand maybe removing the logwatch subsidiary scripts for cron when removing ssmtp, but not the logwatch.pl script | 23:03 |
| systemdlete | the history indicates that removing ssmtp tried to remove logwatch (and mailutils, ok), although some of logwatch is still around. | 23:04 |
| Guest37785 | *Just unpack the latest tarball?* No, fsmithred. I'm building the .deb packages using git-buildpackage. | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | oh, cool | 23:05 |
| Guest37785 | systemdelete: are you familiar with iceweasel-uxp? | 23:05 |
| fsmithred | but I am download the latest tarball. Is it possible to run it? | 23:05 |
| golinux | Guest37785: Will be wonderful to have iceweasel back! Hugs to aitor! | 23:06 |
| Guest37785 | it's depeloped by the people of hyperbola, and i so your name in the irc channel | 23:06 |
| Guest37785 | fsmithred: git-buildpacke worked, but i need to do some improvements; surely the packages will be available tomorrow | 23:07 |
| systemdlete | This is confusing. "apt list --installed logwatch" spits out nothing other than a warning that apt's UI may change in the future, but dpkg-query -l | grep logwatch shows it listed (first two columns are "rc") | 23:08 |
| systemdlete | Guest37785: I think I have installed iceweasel on one or two distros. Isn't that another variation of firefox, like waterfox, pale moon, sea monkey, and ice cat? | 23:11 |
| systemdlete | Guest37785: Not sure why my nick would be mentioned in that channel. More info, please? | 23:12 |
| Guest37785 | systemdlete: not mentioned, but it appeared in the list | 23:13 |
| golinux | Maybe there are two of them! | 23:13 |
| systemdlete | No, I see that I have my hexchat open on hyperbola, that's why. | 23:14 |
| Guest37785 | and yes, it's a mozilla variation, but it uses goanna instead of gecko | 23:14 |
| fsmithred | afk, bbl | 23:14 |
| Guest37785 | and kelsoo... | 23:14 |
| Guest37785 | i built it in gtk2, here you are a screenshoot: | 23:20 |
| Guest37785 | https://www.gnuinos.org/iceweasel-uxp/Captura%20de%20pantalla.png | 23:20 |
| Guest37785 | it's very nice | 23:20 |
| Guest37785 | time to dinner, bye :) | 23:25 |
| devuoom | fsmithered: what would be the best way to install 78 and keep my systems updated with apt... I am trying to avoid manual install on several systems | 23:30 |
| devuoom | is there a repo? | 23:30 |
| mcr | my install of Android Studio on Devuan, seems to be lacking entries for App->NEW. Specifically, adding a new activity. I can't figure out of this is some environmental screw up (some subtle java version issue...), or if studio has just changed. | 23:58 |
| mcr | Not my first time using Android Studio, but it has been two years or so. | 23:58 |
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