libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-09-19

Guest20811i misundertood your problem, which is the output of "lvscan"?00:00
Guest20811maybe you need to activate it with vgchange00:02
Guest20811you need device mapper support for that (dm-mod kernel module):00:06
Guest20811# modprobe dm-mod00:06
Guest20811and then:00:06
Guest20811# vgchange -ay /dev/...00:08
Guest20811in the case of being it inactive00:08
Guest20811https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/logical_volume_manager_administration/vg_activate00:09
yoozok, I will try this.  ty00:10
Guest20811use vgchange --help00:10
Guest20811-a: activate -y: yes00:11
yoozsame error when I attempt bruteforce-luks.  # vgchange -a y activates all and -ay activates all across all VG and devices.  Any reason to avoid doing this?01:31
yoozscratch that. "and -ay activates all" was meant to be deleted01:32
Wafficushi there, can anyone help me add my microsoft lifechat headset to my qlink program, which is a ham radio program for Echolink?03:11
Wafficusits says "alsa:default" for the main audio03:12
Wafficusbut I need to change it to the headset instead03:12
gnarfaceWafficus: is it a USB device?03:13
Wafficusyes03:13
Wafficusit shows up under alsamixer03:14
Wafficusbut I don't know the "text value" name of it03:14
gnarfaceWafficus: try to find it in the output of "aplay -l" and "aplay -L"03:14
Wafficussince qtel needs the exact text name03:14
Wafficusthere's no drop down menu to select it, so it needs the text value name03:14
Wafficusgot it:03:14
Wafficuscard 2: LX3000 [Microsoft LifeChat LX-3000], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]03:14
Wafficus  Subdevices: 1/103:14
Wafficus  Subdevice #0: subdevice #003:14
gnarfaceok03:14
gnarfaceso it is hw:2,003:15
gnarfacebut you might be able to find a more useful logical device attached to it in "aplay -L"03:15
gnarface(note the case difference in "L" changes the output)03:15
Wafficushmm, how did you know it was hw:2,0?03:15
Wafficusjust curious03:15
gnarfaceall devices have both physical and logical references03:15
Wafficusit shows up a few times in aplay -L though03:15
gnarfacethe format for the physical reference is hw:[card index],[device index]03:16
Wafficusnot sure which would be applicable if i need it for headphone output and mic input03:16
Wafficusah I see03:16
gnarfacepaste the "aplay -L" output at paste.debian.net and i'll tell you03:16
Wafficusok will do03:16
WafficusI tried paste.debian.net but its "unavailable" right now03:17
Wafficuswould you be ok with termbin?03:17
gnarfacejust /msg it to me03:17
Wafficusok03:17
gnarfacedefault rate limiting will make it take a long time to get here, just be patient03:18
Wafficusi tried /msg and /pm03:18
gnarfaceyou found it03:18
gnarfaceit's still coming03:22
gnarfaceare you using pulseaudio too, by the way?03:23
Wafficusgnarface: cool, pasted the 171 lines to you lol03:24
Wafficusin a pm03:24
Wafficusnot sure honestly03:24
WafficusFirefox MIGHT have installed it but I haven't used it personally03:24
Wafficusnot sure what installed it to be honest03:25
gnarfacedpkg -l |grep pulse03:25
gnarfaceps aux |grep pulse03:25
Wafficusk03:26
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ dpkg -l | grep pulse03:26
Wafficusii  gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio:amd64        1.14.4-1                            amd64        GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio03:26
Wafficusii  libpulse0:amd64                      12.2-4+deb10u1                      amd64        PulseAudio client libraries03:26
Wafficusii  libpulse0:i386                       12.2-4+deb10u1                      i386         PulseAudio client libraries03:26
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ ps aux | grep pulse03:26
Wafficussam       3132  0.0  0.0   6076   896 pts/4    S+   21:26   0:00 grep pulse03:26
gnarfaceCARD=LX300003:27
gnarfaceno pulseaudio03:27
nullraumpo nulseaudio03:28
MinceRpo aulsenudio03:28
nullraumpobody's nerfect03:28
Wafficusgotcha03:29
WafficusCARD=LX3000, got it03:29
Wafficusso should I use that for my mic AND headphone right03:29
gnarfacelooks like it's even got firewire lol03:29
gnarfaceand 6-channel surround-sound!03:31
gnarfacethx compatible haha03:31
Wafficuslol03:31
WafficusI tried "CARD=LX3000" for the "Mic audio device" and "Speaker audio device" setting values in "qtel", but i'm getting "Could not open speaker audio device" on qtel unfortunately03:33
Wafficus*when I try to connect to any radio repeater03:33
gnarfacesorry no that's not the right syntax03:35
gnarfacei gotta tell you some more stuff, one second03:35
gnarfacesending back an example ~/.asoundrc03:36
gnarfacethere, try that, just those 3 lines as-is03:37
Wafficuslike within ~/.asoundrc right?03:37
WafficusI don't think I have one03:37
Wafficusor rather, I think MAYBE it might be in /etc03:37
WafficusI forget03:37
gnarfaceput it in your ~/.asoundrc, you wouldn't have it by default03:38
gnarfaceyou would not have one by default03:38
gnarfacei find it useful to keep several on hand03:38
Wafficusok03:40
Wafficusthanks03:40
gnarface"~/" gets expanded by the shell to the literal string that is the full path of your home directory03:40
Wafficusyeah that much of Bash expansion I remember03:40
Wafficusi'll load a new terminal and see if I'm able to launch qtel one sec03:40
gnarfacefor changes to the ~/.asoundrc to be recognized, you need only stop any programs that were started before it changed03:41
gnarface(only relevant to programs actually using alsa of course)03:41
Wafficusso wait, what do I have put for "Mic audio device" and "Speaker audio device" in that case?03:41
Wafficus* in qtel so that it can detect my headphone for mic and audio03:41
gnarfacenot sure but probably the literal string "default" if nothing is provided as a default03:42
Wafficusok03:43
gnarfacethough it might be interesting to see what happens if you specify "surround71" for the speaker audio device03:45
gnarfaceand make sure you actually have the right alsamixer interface for this device03:45
gnarfaceyou have several cards, so just running "alsamixer" without -c or that ~/.asoundrc would probably give you volume controls for the wrong one03:45
Wafficusok, so its not freaking out anymore, but I'm not sure if its actually picking up my mic signal03:46
gnarfaces/probably/nearly certainly/03:46
Wafficus* allows me to connect to a station03:46
gnarfaceyea i wouldn't expect the mic to necessarily be unmuted, check that in alsamixer03:46
Wafficuswill have to check alsamixer03:46
gnarface[tab] key to change to the inputs tab03:46
gnarfacedefault would only show outputs, which on many devices also has a mic control but one that does not affect recording levels, which can really confuse testing03:47
Wafficusyeah I think that worked, thanks03:49
gnarfaceyou're welcome03:49
Wafficusno contacts yet, but I think that the repeater got my signal since I heard it signal back03:49
Wafficusso its a matter of finding some active repeaters03:49
Wafficusgonna be fun ;)03:49
Wafficusgot my ham radio license a few weeks ago, but just got a low end Baofeng UV-5R so I can only hit the repeater nearby03:49
Wafficuswith Echolink via "qtel" its gonna be a lot more03:50
gnarfacesounds fun03:50
Wafficushow was your week btw?03:53
Wafficusgnarface:03:53
gnarfacethat's offtopic, but it was peaceful, thanks03:54
gnarfacei'm totally jealous of the ham radio and license, btw.  congrats on that03:55
gnarfaceiec958 is the digital/spdif channel (though technically not spdif in this case i guess the software wouldn't know the difference)03:56
gnarfaceif you have a problem with software that won't accept the other interfaces because it thinks they're analog or something like that, try iec95803:57
gnarfaceand actually, come to think of it, the strings "plug:dmix" and "plug:dsnoop" without quotes, should work for output and input respectively, if "default" doesn't03:58
gnarfacedefault should work for both but doesn't always, depending on driver and hardware limitations (sometimes just bugs)03:59
gnarfacedefault is supposed to imply dmix and dsnoop too, but that doesn't always work right either04:03
gnarfaceif you need to bypass dmix and dsnoop for any reason, use the hw:x,y notation instead04:04
Wafficusthe "alsa:default" option worked04:05
Wafficusso should be ok04:05
gnarfacecool04:05
gnarfacenote that not all the options that work necessarily will have the same latency or cpu usage04:06
gnarface"hw" is the fastest but also with most devices implies only one thing can use it at a time04:07
WafficusI see04:07
gnarfaceoh and since recordings matter, check to make sure the sample rates default to the optimal one for the device04:08
gnarfaceusually this works right for output but for some reason less often for input04:08
gnarfacealthough usually what goes wrong is it'll default to 8000Hz, which will be very obvious in the recording quality04:09
gnarfacealso04:10
gnarfacei have no idea what the "usbstream" one is04:10
Wafficusgotcha04:11
Wafficuswell, seems to work for now ha04:11
gnarfacethat's what matters04:11
gnarfacei'm just tacking on some information that might come in useful later04:12
Wafficusgotcha04:24
Wafficusthanks04:24
systemdleteis there a way to get apt to revert the last set of updates?08:21
flingI have a bunch of stuff like different libs marked as manual.08:34
flingHow to uninstall them properly? ^08:34
flingthe unneeded ones08:34
systemdleteSo "apt update" told me there were upgradable packages.  I then looked to see using --upgradable.  I thought I wanted the changes, and did "apt upgrade"  but this seems to have broken things08:35
systemdleteSo what I want to do is simply undo JUST the packages that were upgraded08:35
systemdleteI guess I can write a script to do this, but if there is a tool that would be better and more convenient.08:36
systemdleteMaybe that explains it more clearly.08:36
systemdleteIOW, I don't want to remove the packages, just put them back to how things were before that one upgrade, which included about 50 packages I think.08:37
gnarfacei don't know of any tools09:10
gnarfacenot anything that wouldn't have needed to be set up ahead of time anyway, systemdlete09:10
gnarfacefling: just "apt-get purge [package name]"09:10
systemdleteno09:10
systemdleteno!09:10
systemdleteI do not want to do that09:10
gnarfaceyou want to roll back to the previous versions, right?09:10
systemdleteIt's OK, I am putting together a perl script to do this.09:10
systemdletepurge will get rid of the packages completely.09:11
gnarfacesystemdlete: ignore the thing for fling09:11
systemdlete???09:11
gnarfaceare you and fling the same person, systemdlete ?09:11
systemdleteoh, I thought you were suggesting I just kind of "fling it"09:12
gnarfaceno09:12
systemdletesorry09:12
systemdleteThat's why I pick unique nicks and user names...09:12
systemdletelol09:12
gnarfacebut i don't know of any way you can fix your problem at this point other than restoring from backup, or combing through the apt log for the old version numbers of everything09:12
systemdletethat's what I am doing now, thanks09:12
gnarfaceoh well09:12
gnarfaceoh, no nevermind the old versions wouldn't still be in your cache probably09:13
gnarfaceyea, the apt log is your best bet i think09:13
gnarfacethis might be a good use case for snapshots though09:13
systemdleteYes.  If I had thought of it BEFOREHAND...09:28
systemdlete(another friday night... ruined)09:28
systemdleteAnyway, what is the specific syntax for installing a specific version of a package.  It seems to be something like "apt install pkgname =1.2.3 but I can't seem to get the =part right.09:29
systemdleteoh09:29
gnarfacehas to be exact09:29
systemdletethe = comes right after the last letter of the package name, no space!09:30
gnarfaceand no space between package name and the =09:30
gnarfaceyea09:30
systemdletethat was not clear from the docs09:30
systemdletedoh!09:30
systemdleteok09:30
gnarfaceit has to still be in the repo, too, so be fast09:30
gnarfacethough conceivably you could configure an apt proxy to cache older versions for longer09:31
linearainhi09:38
systemdletelooks like firefox 80.0 is gone09:43
systemdletejust 80.0.109:43
systemdleteand I think 7809:43
systemdleteI was able to downgrade to 78, just not to 8009:44
flingdon't just fling it09:46
systemdletecrud.09:46
systemdletewhy not, at this point?09:46
systemdleteactually, gnarface, this is mx, not devuan.  But I think apt works the same, just different repos.  And I'm not asking anyone HERE to fix mx for me.  That voided the warranty long ago.09:47
systemdleteI know.09:47
flinggnarface: I'm thinking to marking them as auto instead09:47
linearaindid anyone migrate from buster to devuan?09:47
flinggnarface: is the manual list supposed to not have any libs in it at all?09:48
flinglinearain: I did this many times09:48
lunariowhat's the reason that a particular version of a package is listed in pkginfo.devuan.org as being in beowulf-backports but not in experimental or testing? aren't backports automatically based on future releases of packages that are in experimental/testing phase in devuna?09:48
lunario*devuan09:48
linearainfling, did you notice stability improvements?09:48
systemdleteI think mx is a rolling release.  This is why I hate rolling releases.  I much prefer solid package management and testing.  I am a fool.09:50
flinglinearain: sure I don't need to worry about systemd anymore09:50
flinglinearain: for example I had many issues with systemd and I can't experience them or any new ones anymore09:50
flinglinearain: for lxd containers I don't need to add 'raw.lxc: lxc.mount.auto = cgroup' to the config09:51
systemdleteIt is "semi-rolling"09:51
systemdleteAll I know is that I feel like I just got rolled over.09:51
flingAnd I can remove this line from fstab -> systemd /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd cgroup X-mount.mkdir,name=systemd,none 0 009:51
systemdleteAnd hollering into #mx-linux for help doesn't do any good.  All I hear is my own echo.09:51
systemdleteThat's why I came here.  Sorry, wasn't trying to fool anybody.  Just needed some help.09:52
flingI'm using zfs so in case of something going wrong here I can just rollback to a checkpoint or zfs snapshot or lxd snapshot09:52
systemdletefling:  I'm using vbox which has snapshotting built in.09:52
systemdletebut I didn't bother to snapshot before I upgraded.  Big mistake.09:53
flingis something wrong now?09:53
systemdleteThis is mx we are talking about.09:53
systemdletenot devuan.09:53
flingI've been using devuan for mx for years without issues btw09:54
systemdleteboth firefox and chromium eat shared mem (/dev/shm) like mad.  They quickly exhaust the /dev/shm and cause the browsers to crash09:54
flingwhat do you mean not devuan?09:54
systemdletefling:  mx-linux, not somethng else called mx09:54
linearainpalemoon is a decent browser09:54
flingoh09:54
systemdleteI chucked artix linux a while back for similar reasons.  mx and artix both are systemd-free, but they have other issues.09:56
systemdleteIt's like devuan is the only linux distro left that has any sort of sanity to it.  Fixed releases, no systemd, etc.09:57
linearainfling, what init system you use after migrating from buster to devun? and was it easy to do?09:58
systemdleteAnd devuan is beholden, to some extent, to the whims of debian.  For over 25 years, we had a decent OS.  But because of manipulation by one player, nearly every distro out there has gone rogue.09:58
flinglinearain: I have no idea, the default one.09:58
flinglinearain: I just typed in each container whatever the conversion page said.09:59
systemdletee.g., I loved centos, but they also went systemd with v709:59
systemdleteI wait with anticipation for adelie linux.  But I think it is a year or more off before GA.09:59
systemdleteMeantime, it's devuan, or maybe one of its spin-offs.10:00
flingI'm mostly using gentoo everywhere.10:00
flingI'm not using devuan on hardware because it has no lxd packaged.10:00
flingsystemdlete: why exactly are you asking about mx-linux here?10:10
systemdleteI explained that above10:10
systemdleteIt is difficult to get help in their channel, and apt is fairly universal10:10
flingoh10:11
flingthere is a way to pin certain versions10:11
systemdletetoo late for that.10:11
nullraumI ended up settling in with it after trying several other lennart-free distros10:11
nullraumit's the only one that consistently is problem free10:11
nullraumrunner up is void10:11
systemdletenullraum: which one is problem free?  We are talking several distros here10:12
nullraumdevuan10:12
systemdleteok10:12
nullraumjust tends to work for me10:12
systemdleteI'd say I agree10:12
systemdleteA lot of that rests with its stability, due to it being a fixed release.10:12
systemdleteOf course, the downside is you don't get all the latest, "greatest," slickest, coolest, wow, man-am-I-tough versions of software.10:13
nullraumI'm glad it exists though...cause otherwise I would be considering bsd10:13
systemdleteme too, nullraum.  Me too!10:13
systemdleteAnd I have looked at bsd.  But I personally don't like it.  I was brought up mostly in the AT&T world, where I worked for the first few years of my career.  So I got to know sys V rather intimately.10:14
nullraumand I managed to find a vm host that enthusiastically supports it10:15
systemdletewhich one?10:15
nullraumhttps://datacenterlight.ch/10:15
systemdletehmmm.10:15
nullraumother bonuses too10:15
nullraumif you're into green energy, apparently it 99% runs on hydro10:15
nullraumand then there's swiss data law10:15
systemdletea number of vendors do that also.  I've been with a few in the past.10:16
systemdleteWhat exactly are they hosting there:  Some form of devuan, or what?  Home brew of their own.10:16
systemdlete?10:16
systemdlete(yeah, swiss data law is nice I hear)10:17
nullraumlet me see...10:17
systemdlete(among the strictest in Europe I hear)10:17
systemdletefrankly, nullraum, if they are using systemd of any kind, I'm gone. No way.10:18
nullraumsays their services run on devuan10:18
systemdletewow.10:18
systemdletevery cool.10:18
nullraumand it's also offered as an installation10:18
systemdleteNice to know there is a growing fan club out there.10:18
systemdleteIf I ever need a VPS or the like, I'll certainly take a look at them.  Thanks for the info.10:19
nullraumno problem10:19
nullraumtheir prices are slightly higher than some other providers I've seen, but nothing crazy10:20
nullraumyou'll probably like this10:20
nullraumhttps://ungleich.ch/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/d3/7e/d37e1d32-e303-46f1-b96a-ae9582296458/devuan-shirt-ungleich.jpg__1156x726_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg10:21
nullraum"Team ungleich @ Devuan Conference 2019, Amsterdam"10:21
systemdleteI don't mind paying a bit more if their service is good.  I went with one green VPS in the past, but as time went on, they started getting increasingly corporate and I quit them.10:21
systemdleteDevuan merch!  YES!10:21
nullraumseems pretty reliable in my usage...only issues is a bit of latency, which is unavoidable because of the distance10:22
nullraum*issue10:22
gnarfacefling: it doesn't really matter whether the libs are manually installed or not10:59
gnarfacefling: sometimes you might have added one manually if there were missing dependencies or you were doing something custom...10:59
flinggnarface: right but these were in the lxd image I used for creating this container instance many months ago11:35
flinggnarface: maybe it was ascii or jessie11:35
flinggnarface: is it fine to just mark all the libs as auto?11:35
flingWhat is really needed to be set as manual?11:35
gnu_srsrowbee: Please forward #964139 to the CTTE!11:40
gnarfacefling: i thought it was just set to manual if you request the package by name yourself12:40
gnarfacefling: it will change already installed packages to manual if you apt-get install them12:40
gnarfacefling: they'll still be automatically updated... you know that, right?  i'm not quite sure what the concern is here.12:41
flinggnarface: ok good to know13:02
ShorTiehow would i change networking start up from rcS to rc2.d  ??13:40
ShorTiei know i gotta edit /etc/init.d/networking to a Default-Start of 213:41
r3bootShorTie: https://linuxjourney.com/lesson/sysv-overview13:59
fsmithredShorTie, update-rc.d if you like command-line, sysv-rc-conf if you like easy (arrows and space bar)14:27
n4dirpastebinit gives some warnings and as the resulting link all i get ist paste.debian.net14:45
n4dirLooks like it's paste.debian.net being down, adding -b paste.ubuntu.com solves that issue.15:20
n4dirSo back to the problem: when starting streamtuner2 i get this error:15:20
n4dirhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WxzzQ3nRbK/15:21
n4dira simple: nope, streamtuner2 works for me is enough as an answer15:21
brocashelmhttps://www.slant.co/options/22383/~devuan-gnu-linux-review17:08
brocashelmhuh, ranked #1 on this web site for debian-based distros. debian at #317:08
fsmithredThis is false:  "Unlike Debian, Devuan offers no unfree netinstall media,"17:13
brocashelmyes, that should be corrected. i remember seeing a netinstall iso17:29
XenguyI don't see any way to correct that falsehood17:36
XenguyOn that web site17:36
XenguyAlways nice to see Devuan's name in lights tho  : -)17:37
fsmithredprobably need to create an account there to post a comment18:03
fsmithredain't gonna happen18:03
fsmithredso, I just tried to dist-upgrade my laptop to beowulf and it did not work18:03
XenguyFrom ASCII, or ...?18:03
fsmithredchanged sources.list, apt update, and then18:03
fsmithredyeah18:03
Xenguydarn18:03
fsmithredaptitude -s full-upgrade18:04
fsmithredor18:04
fsmithredapt -s upgrade18:04
fsmithredactually, not the second one, just the first...18:04
fsmithredtells me that 1 package needs up18:04
fsmithredca-certificates18:04
fsmithredbut it fails because openssl is too old18:04
XenguyI'm not sure if it is still the case, but when I first looked at aptitude, it didn't seem to be compatible with apt-get, so I decided to stick with the latter18:05
XenguyHuh18:05
fsmithredmy beowulf on the desktop shows 13 packages to upgrade, and I've done that in the last couple weeks18:05
masonI'm curious about something... On Beowulf, with libvirt/kvm/qemu, and with a local virt-manager, I don't see CPU statistics on any guests. I don't remember this with Beowulf as a remote hypervisor with virt-manager on Ubuntu looking. Haven't really begun exploration yet - just noticing it.18:06
masonHm, and I get guest CPU status with the remote hypervisor being Ubuntu. Maybe it's a local flag.18:11
fsmithredok, 1152 packages will upgrade after I remove the pin on beowulf. doh!18:13
masonOh. Interesting. My user can't get stats, but root can. This has to be some polkit issue.18:14
masonfsmithred: What sort of packages, and what was the pin?18:14
fsmithredwhat sort? uh, installed packages18:16
masonTheme, I mean.18:16
fsmithredI had beowulf repos pinned to 1018:17
fsmithredwhat theme do you mean?18:17
masonI was curious what was going to upgrade unexpectedly.18:17
fsmithredI'm doing a dist-upgrade from ascii to beowulf on the thinkpad18:17
masonah18:17
fsmithredit was the oppsite: I expected everything to upgrade, but it gave me nothing.18:18
masonThought you were already on Beowulf and had that thousand packages held back.18:18
fsmithredwell, one to upgrade, but it failed18:18
masonpinning can be a dark art18:18
fsmithreddesktop is on beowulf, laptop has ascii and chimaera18:18
fsmithredlol18:18
fsmithredI usually have a bunch of repos enabled that have no business being in my sources.list18:19
fsmithredjust so I can look up package versions18:19
masonReasonable.18:19
masonaha, for reasons I'll have to explore, I don't have a cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct on Beowulf.18:21
masonOh, I bet it's that Debian's moved to systemd, and expects systemd to manage cgroups.18:22
masonHrm, even with that mounted before libvirtd starts, I still don't get stats as a user, via virsh cpu-stats twiki --total. Going to reboot for kicks.18:40
masonA riddle wrapped in an enigma. With cgroupfs-mount installed and a fresh reboot for service ordering, virt-manager now shows CPU stats for local VMs, but 'virsh cpu-stats' still needs to be root to find domains. Weird.18:45
masonSomething to explore another day I guess, as being able to notice spikes in virt-manager was my immediate goal.18:46
masonFWIW, this is the kind of thing I want to capture in a wiki.18:47
mason...and it'll be somewhat specific to Devuan, since cgroup management is all ceded to systemd in Debian and others.18:47
masonYay, strace takes me up to a dbus call, so I have to trace the actual libvirtd if I want to proceed this way.19:07
fsmithredupgrade to beowulf worked. Laptop lid suspend now works!20:25
Xenguyfsmithred: How did you get it fixed?20:28
XenguyI mean, you reported the upgrade failed before20:29
fsmithredI un-pinned beowulf. :)20:29
XenguyOh, hah, right, I saw you're "doh" moment20:29
XenguyGood to hear it went well then20:29
fsmithredI see why people do upgrades. It was much faster than fresh install and configuring, which usually takes me a few weeks.20:30
XenguyThe ability to not have to get config files back in place is a pretty killer feature20:33
XenguyAnd reinstall all the software.  Doable of course, but just a PITA20:34
XenguyAnd, it's the Debian, now Devuan Way[TM]20:36
XenguyIs there a recommended license to use for Devuan documentation?  Or is there a license for that currently?21:46
gnarfacethere's a recommended license for Debian documentation, and i assume Devuan follows suit just because i don't recall there being any big issue about the one they chose21:52
gnarfacei could be wrong about that though21:52
gnarfaceand i forget exactly what license they use21:52
gnarfacei used to know but now i can't remember if it was just all also GPL2 or if it was some creative commons license21:52
gnarfaceit would have to be something OSI approved21:53
XenguyThanks, trying to track down the current license of Devuan's documentation, but not exactly sure where to look for that yet.21:53
golinuxWe talked with Bruce Perens about a wiki license a while back.   I'll try to dig up that correspondence in a bit.21:54
gnarfacehmmm, i see a log of a GR that seems to have been an argument against continuing to use GFDL in 2006...21:55
golinuxThat was maybe 2 years ago.21:55
gnarfaceif i'm reading this right, GFDL ended up winning out in 200621:56
XenguyHuh, I really don't know a lot about licensing except for the basics of GPL vs. BSD21:57
XenguyNo real knowledge of Creative Commons licenses, other than that they exist21:57
gnarfaceXenguy: Debian follows, or at least used to follow guidelines from a 3rd party organization called the OSI21:57
gnarfaceXenguy: so my guess is their site will probably have the documentation21:57
XenguyThanks for the pointer21:58
gnarfaceoh, great, apparently that's a very popular acronym21:58
gnarfaceor... 3 initial set or whatever you call that21:58
gnarfaceyou want the OSI that is the Open Source Initiative21:58
Xenguy3 letter acronym21:58
gnarfacenot to be confused with OSI Systems, Inc, OSI Digital, or O.S.I. Architecture, or the Office of Special Investigations21:59
Xenguycool21:59
gnarfacei do know that the OSI is the primary driving force behind Debian having snubbed several popular BSD licenses22:00
gnarface("too free" vs "not free enough" is a debate that will go well off into the weeds though)22:00
XenguyJust ran across this but haven't tried it yet:  https://choosealicense.com/22:01
mtnbmanhelo22:27
gnarfacehello mtnbman, just ask your questions, don't wait for permission to ask22:30
mtnbmanwant to double-check something before i ask...22:36
golinuxXenguy: Check your mail for Peren's response to our query22:41
mtnbmanok... when i connect to a wifi network wicd drops the connection to my wired network. how can i stop this behaviour?22:41
mtnbmansay hi to bruce!22:42
XenguyThanks golinux22:49
Guest1348mtnbman: go to Preferences->General and deselect "Change always to the wired network when it's available" or something similar (I have LANG=es)22:50
Guest1348i still wonder why may name is always changed from aitor to GuestSomething at every connection22:52
mtnbmanGuest1348 ok but i want to use both wired and wifi22:52
mtnbmanGuest1348 perhaps there is a default setting in your client22:52
Guest1348nothing strange when i type Ctrl+S22:54
Guest1348going forward, if you are already connected to the wireless device, wicd will ignore the wired interface if you disable this option22:55
Guest1348this is a guess, i didn't test it22:56
brocashelmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkFNMEk0xn823:02
brocashelmremember watching this video when it first hit. devuan is being mentioned here as a viable non-systemd alternative to debian/ubuntu/mint23:03
brocashelmignore the "specific term"; video gets pretty technical with breaking down systemd's spaghetti code, plus other poetteringshit "inventions"23:04
mtnmanhelo23:08
mtnmanok i that option was deselected and when i connected to wifi the wired connection was dropped.23:08
Guest1348so, is it okay now?23:13
mtnmanno it is not ok.  wired connection is dropped every time i connect to wifi.  since i am ssh'd into that machine, i have to reboot everytime.23:14
Guest1348do you mean that you need to link it up again?23:16
mtnmani am ssh'd into the machine that is running wicd.  everytime that box connects to wifi, i lose the wired connection and have to reboot to reagain that wired connection.23:17
mtnmanis that clear?23:17
Guest1348yes23:18
gnarfaceGuest1348: "aitor" is already a registered name so it boots you off it.  if you're the one that registered, you just need to authenticate with NickServ within 30s of connecting to freenode23:20
gnarfacemtnman: did you read Guest1348's tip about setting the wicd preferences not to automatically change to wifi when available or whatever it is?  (i don't use wicd myself, but if it doesn't do what you want there are alternatives)23:21
Guest1348gnarface: thanks23:22
Guest1348yes, i'm the one who registered this name23:23
gnarfaceGuest1348: /msg NickServ help23:23
Guest1348ok23:23
mtnmanGuest1348 you need to /msch nickserv id <password>23:23
mtnmanoops /msg nickserv...23:24
mtnmangnarface: yes it was already set that way23:30
aitor_hi again23:30
mtnmani tried reconnecting wifi and wired was dropped again...23:30
mtnmanhelo23:30
aitor_gnarface: thanks :)23:31
mtnmanaitor_ wb23:31
aitor_wb?23:32
mtnmanwelcome back23:32
aitor_willl be? warner brothers?23:32
aitor_ok23:33
mtnmanno luck with wired network23:33
gnarfaceaitor_: didn't you make the initial wicd version, or was that someone else named a*?23:36
* gnarface could have sworn wicd was contributed by someone who used to hang out here23:36
aitor_no, i nerver worked on wicd23:36
gnarfacemaybe it was a different aitor23:37
gnarfaceis that a common name?23:37
mtnmanalternat aitor23:37
mtnmanalternate..23:37
aitor_no, it's not a common name23:37
aitor_it's basque23:37
gnarfacemtnman: anyway, that's a common complaint about wicd but it is by design and i don't know how to turn it off... some people just use a different gui tool like connman or networkManager, but personally i just type up my interfaces file by hand23:38
gnarfacemtnman: look for a checkbox like Guest1348 (aitor_) suggested, and if it's not there but you're on ascii, check to see if the beowulf one is better maybe23:39
mtnmangnarface i used to do manual connecty, but lately have been using wicd because it is default on some distros i have been using23:40
mtnmani am on ascii.  i tried installing beowulf on this arm board but was unsuccessful.  the arm images are kind of a pain.23:40
gnarfacemtnman: i think the design focus was "do what i mean" for people who don't multi-home their laptop network setup :-p23:41
gnarfacemtnman: (the primary complaint, i assume being "hey, i enabled the wifi so why is it still sending data over the wire??"23:41
gnarface)23:41
aitor_mtnman: wicd will disappear in Chimaera, because python-gtk2 will be no longer mantained23:41
mtnmanit seems a common use case to want two interfaces23:41
aitor_wicd-gtk, at list23:42
gnarfacemtnman: yea but not for people who don't type their own network config23:42
gnarfacemtnman: it's more of a server task23:42
mtnmangnarface this is a useless debate, but i think that two interfaces is a common need, for example to share an internet connection23:44
mtnmanwell if wicd will be deprecated, i suppose i will wean myself from it.23:45
gnarfacemtnman: i don't disagree that there should be something better, it was just much easier for me to make myself better instead23:45
* mtnman goes off to edit /etc/network/interfaces23:45
aitor_mtnman: are you using bridge-utils?23:49
mtnmanaitor_ not that i know of.23:51
masonbridge-utils aren't strictly necessary for a firewall, especially if he's got two interfaces.23:52
masonDoing a firewall with one interface seems like the height of perilous.23:52
aitor_need to go, time to dinner23:56
aitor_see you :)23:56
masonNot if I see you first! =grin=23:56
masonbbiab as well23:56
Cobratek-.-23:58
Cobratekping23:58
mtnmanpong23:59
Cobratek:)23:59
CobratekI'm a bit suck23:59
Cobratekstuc23:59

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