| gnarface | Vall: i can't tell you anything about MQTT brokers, but the RPI1 has ~700MHz on a 1-core CPU and 512MB of on-chip ram that has to be shared with the video device. it will boot Beowulf, but not with hardware floating point or video decoding support. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | Vall: (so as long as you don't need those two things and 700MHz + ~450MB is enough, it should work, but you tell me... i don't know) | 00:03 |
| gnarface | Vall: (and note that it is not ARM7, which is why. it's actually the only ARM6 chip in the wild with a floating point unit apparently, which is why Raspbian is the only thing that supports the floating point unit) | 00:04 |
| gnarface | Vall: (from my own testing, it won't play video for shit anymore but it will play audio fine and can drive USB webcams at a reduced framerate as long as you provide an externally powered USB hub) | 00:06 |
| gnarface | Vall: oh, and it's probably worth noting that the throughput on the ethernet device caps out at 10 megabit once your on-chip RAM buffer is exhaused | 00:08 |
| gnarface | Vall: (that isn't different from Raspbian, but not knowing anything about MQTT i thought it might be relevant) | 00:09 |
| Vall | gnarface: thanks for the great,detailed info | 00:12 |
| Vall | two more questions: what would be the appropriate Devuan image to try on the RP1B? | 00:13 |
| gnarface | Vall: oh, you don't have a link? hang on i'll dig it up for you... i think it has rpi1 in the file name | 00:14 |
| Vall | and: what would be the best least expensive, less power-hungry compact RP or similar to run Devuan right now? | 00:15 |
| gnarface | Vall: here, grab devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_armel_rpi1_0.3.img.xz from here, but make sure to read the README: http://arm-files.devuan.org/ | 00:16 |
| gnarface | Vall: i honestly don't think there would be anything more compact or less power hungry than a rpi1, except maybe one of those rpi0 things, which is almost the same thing internally but just on a smaller board, and with optional built-in wifi | 00:17 |
| Vall | thanks for the image name and url | 00:18 |
| gnarface | Vall: if you need something cheaper but with more power, try these darlings of the slashdot daily deals page: http://pine64.org/ | 00:18 |
| gnarface | Vall: (shipping times and wait lists can suck though, so availability might also be an unexpected factor in your choice) | 00:19 |
| Vall | I've heard of pine64, specially their Rock64 SBC. does it run Devuan well? | 00:19 |
| gnarface | it runs anything well headless | 00:21 |
| gnarface | driver support for stuff like audio, hdmi, 3d and video decoding support are all hit and miss though still, very bleeding edge hardware | 00:22 |
| gnarface | still, very few people have buyers remorse as long as they know that ahead of time | 00:22 |
| gnarface | i personally haven't tested Devuan on them but we have images | 00:23 |
| Vall | ok, good info | 00:24 |
| gnarface | (i have tested Devuan on some of their various AllWinner devices, but with custom images i built myself - the Devuan images are newer) | 00:24 |
| Vall | just tried sourcing it locally (Chile) to no avail :-/ | 00:25 |
| gnarface | yea you won't find them locally except maybe on ebay | 00:25 |
| gnarface | and frankly if you want one you'd best get on the waiting list now | 00:25 |
| Vall | what can be found everywhere is the RPi 3 and 4, various models | 00:26 |
| Vall | there's even a RPi4 with 8GB available | 00:26 |
| gnarface | yea, :( but then you gotta own Broadcom hardware, and they're greasy | 00:27 |
| gnarface | it's a bunch of tradeoffs with both practical and existential dilemmas, unfortunately. i'm trapped in it too right now. | 00:28 |
| gnarface | these are the only ARM devices i can really claim to have tested with a real linux distro, but the README files in the repos should mention dozens of others probably worth looking into | 00:29 |
| gnarface | most of them are other AllWinner devices from various 3rd party vendors i haven't heard of, but you might find more feedback about them in #devuan-arm or #linux-sunxi here on freenode | 00:30 |
| gnarface | pine64 has their own IRC network that's worth asking around in too | 00:30 |
| Vall | ok, again great info -- many thanks! | 00:33 |
| gnarface | no problem, good luck | 00:33 |
| * Vall waves | 00:33 | |
| lyubov | /j/buffer 4 | 01:35 |
| systemdlete | devuan's apt gives me many choices! | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | Package gvim is a virtual package provided by: | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | vim-gtk3 2:8.1.0875-5 | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | vim-gtk 2:8.1.0875-5 | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | vim-athena 2:8.1.0875-5 | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | You should explicitly select one to install. | 07:47 |
| systemdlete | Soooooo... how does a smart fella solve this riddle? | 07:48 |
| systemdlete | I mean, if all three are compatible with my setup, then I'd think that they only differ by either how many open issues they have, or by some esoteric features. | 07:49 |
| man_in_shack | you probably want gtk3 | 07:49 |
| systemdlete | "probably" -- OK. Why? | 07:49 |
| gnarface | seems like personal choice but gtk3 is the one that will have the most distro-level attention on it from upstream... | 07:49 |
| gnarface | because that's the one with corporate backing :( | 07:50 |
| systemdlete | (that's what I figured) | 07:50 |
| systemdlete | Oh, well. | 07:50 |
| gnarface | so i would say use the gtk3 one unless it causes you driver issues, then use the gtk one | 07:50 |
| systemdlete | if it has CORPORATE backing, I definitely want it. To whom do I mail the check? | 07:50 |
| gnarface | freedesktop.org i guess | 07:50 |
| * gnarface facepalms | 07:50 | |
| systemdlete | I hate what this has all become... | 07:51 |
| gnarface | no in all seriousness they probably have a direct link somewhere at gtk.org, i don't actually know | 07:51 |
| man_in_shack | gtk2 is essentially being phased out these days | 07:51 |
| gnarface | but it's the latest one from the GNOME project so yea, that's where the various corporate investors seem to have placed their bets over the years | 07:51 |
| systemdlete | gtk == gtk2? | 07:52 |
| man_in_shack | yah | 07:52 |
| gnarface | gtk is actually gtk1 | 07:52 |
| gnarface | most gtk2 stuff is being replaced by gtk3 stuff but i assume gtk1 is still being kept around for legacy compatibility | 07:52 |
| man_in_shack | there's no gtk1 anymore :P | 07:52 |
| man_in_shack | apt show vim-gtk | 07:52 |
| man_in_shack | depends on libgtk2 | 07:52 |
| systemdlete | so there is no cool stuff for gtk2 fanboys? | 07:52 |
| man_in_shack | there is xfce :P | 07:53 |
| gnarface | oh | 07:53 |
| gnarface | hah | 07:53 |
| gnarface | vim-gtk just has one dependency; vim-gtk3 | 07:53 |
| gnarface | so i guess that train has left the station, yea | 07:53 |
| man_in_shack | but yeah, gnome is pretty gross, and gnome backporting gross gnomeisms to gtk is grosser | 07:53 |
| gnarface | too bad | 07:53 |
| man_in_shack | gnarface: which distro you on? | 07:53 |
| gnarface | i'm on devuan | 07:53 |
| systemdlete | (of course...) | 07:53 |
| man_in_shack | yah but which one? :P | 07:54 |
| gnarface | i'm just not using vim so i'm not paying attention to this | 07:54 |
| gnarface | i've got machines around here running ascii, beowulf and ceres | 07:54 |
| gnarface | i forget if i replaced the last jessie vm or not | 07:54 |
| systemdlete | I like the syntax highlighting -- it is useful in MOST cases... though I've encountered situations where perl refused to tell me, out and out, where my error was. | 07:54 |
| systemdlete | I'm using vim on mate on beowulf but I notice that there seems to be a lack of coordination with the system clipboard. | 07:55 |
| systemdlete | I can't seem to copy anything while in vim. (vi works though) | 07:56 |
| man_in_shack | ok so debian stable/buster still has gtk2 vim but testing/bullseye only has gtk3 vim | 07:56 |
| man_in_shack | systemdlete: yah probably cos vim takes over the mouse control | 07:56 |
| systemdlete | I went into the terminal settings and enabled "copy selection to clipboard" but it doesn't seem to make a diff | 07:56 |
| systemdlete | right, man_in_shack | 07:57 |
| systemdlete | q is: How to un-disable it? | 07:57 |
| systemdlete | I wonder if using a different term program might solve this. | 07:57 |
| gnarface | hmmm, does the athena one still work? | 07:57 |
| man_in_shack | probably | 07:58 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: did you try the athena one? it looks lightweight... | 07:58 |
| systemdlete | I like being able to launch vim from the command line... gvim seems a bit strange | 07:58 |
| man_in_shack | systemdlete: :help mouse | 07:58 |
| man_in_shack | you can set the mode as you like | 07:58 |
| man_in_shack | e.g. if you :set mouse=nvh, then you can select text with your terminal app in insert mode | 08:02 |
| systemdlete | I tried :se +xterm_clipboard, but I prob don't have the syntax right | 08:04 |
| systemdlete | nvm. I see now | 08:06 |
| systemdlete | thanks | 08:06 |
| man_in_shack | np | 08:06 |
| man_in_shack | also for gvim, you can use the + or * buffers | 08:06 |
| man_in_shack | "*yy << copy current line to clipboard | 08:06 |
| man_in_shack | gotta learn you some keyboard shortcutties | 08:08 |
| man_in_shack | "yank" and "put" and all that stuff | 08:08 |
| systemdlete | guess what? Enable the use of the mouse. Only works for certain terminals | 08:10 |
| systemdlete | (xterm, MS-DOS, Win32 |win32-mouse|, QNX pterm, *BSD console with | 08:10 |
| systemdlete | sysmouse and Linux console with gpm). | 08:10 |
| systemdlete | That msg may be out of date, but even with :se mouse=a, it still does not do copy | 08:10 |
| systemdlete | (the context menu item for copy is disabled) | 08:11 |
| gnarface | oh, are you not in X? | 08:11 |
| man_in_shack | yah if you want terminal to select-and-copy, you need to disable a mouse mode | 08:11 |
| systemdlete | I know the yank and put cmds, man_in_shack. I just didn't realize that '*' would use the system clipboard as a buffer | 08:12 |
| man_in_shack | e.g. :set mouse=h, only let vim take over mouse for help files | 08:12 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: my guess is you could either just install gpm or set TERM=xterm | 08:12 |
| systemdlete | gnarface: I AM running mate desktop. The problemseems to be with the term program | 08:12 |
| systemdlete | gpm sounds nice. I'll try that. | 08:13 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: yea, wait though, you should only need gpm if you don't have X... if it's just with your term, check $TERM | 08:13 |
| man_in_shack | gnarface: sounds like he's running vim in gnome-terminal to me | 08:13 |
| systemdlete | gpm already installed. drat! | 08:13 |
| systemdlete | TERM=xterm-256color | 08:14 |
| systemdlete | mate terminal 1.20.2 | 08:14 |
| gnarface | xterm compatible linux terminals frequently default to something other than literally "xterm" but sometimes it causes problems | 08:15 |
| gnarface | you can override that at whim | 08:15 |
| systemdlete | I wonder if switching to xfce might make more sense | 08:15 |
| gnarface | no you could literally just run: TERM=xterm vim | 08:15 |
| gnarface | or change it in your .bashrc | 08:16 |
| systemdlete | that doesn't help either | 08:16 |
| systemdlete | :( | 08:16 |
| gnarface | maybe it has to be in the .bashrc so the parent shell is launched with it | 08:16 |
| man_in_shack | inside vim, :set mouse=a means vim takes over mouse control from the terminal | 08:16 |
| systemdlete | Eh... launching it TERM=xterm vim should be fine | 08:16 |
| man_in_shack | so you want :set mouse=<something else> | 08:17 |
| systemdlete | such as? | 08:17 |
| man_in_shack | to allow the terminal to keep mouse control for select-and-copy | 08:17 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: i would think so but i don't really know for sure, is the point | 08:17 |
| man_in_shack | :set mouse=h for only in help system | 08:17 |
| systemdlete | can I :set mouse= ? | 08:17 |
| man_in_shack | :set mouse=nvh for everything except insert mode | 08:17 |
| systemdlete | or is that a fail | 08:17 |
| systemdlete | nvh does not work, tried it | 08:18 |
| man_in_shack | :set mouse-=a came up in my googling | 08:18 |
| systemdlete | I did both :se mouse-=a and :se mouse= and neither solved it, sorry. | 08:20 |
| systemdlete | I really think this has something to do with the mate terminal. There are a few other issues with MATE also, though I forget offhand now. | 08:21 |
| golinux | gtk3 sucks | 08:22 |
| systemdlete | I was enjoying mate on my ascii laptop install. However, beowulf's mate does not seem to work well with the laptop for some reason. | 08:22 |
| golinux | and is fugly | 08:22 |
| systemdlete | does it suck before/after tearing out systemd dependencies? | 08:22 |
| systemdlete | (I'm guessing it has some, like everything else these days) | 08:23 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: i like rxvt-unicode-256color | 08:23 |
| gnarface | as a bonus it mostly displays unicode correctly, (unlike gnome-terminal, last i checked) | 08:24 |
| gnarface | but the ~/.bashrc i inherited from whatever install this started as sets TERM to xterm | 08:25 |
| gnarface | at least i thought it did... hmm, somthing is.... | 08:25 |
| systemdlete | Installing that now. | 08:26 |
| systemdlete | (thanks again) | 08:26 |
| gnarface | anyway double check TERM because i thought it didn't default to xterm either, but it's definitely xterm now | 08:26 |
| gnarface | and no problem | 08:26 |
| systemdlete | ok so now it works. | 08:36 |
| systemdlete | What I did was, in the terminal profile, I unchecked "copy selection to keyboard" (I did the same thing in xfce with success) and also set the mouse= like that | 08:37 |
| systemdlete | Now I get the "copy" items in the context menu, and yes, it copies to the clipboard. | 08:37 |
| gnarface | with gnome-terminal? | 08:37 |
| systemdlete | Thanks for the assistance gnarface and man_in-shack | 08:37 |
| gnarface | or with urxvt? | 08:37 |
| systemdlete | man_in_shack | 08:37 |
| systemdlete | Oh, either the xfce-terminal or the mate-terminal. | 08:38 |
| gnarface | ah | 08:38 |
| systemdlete | yeah | 08:38 |
| systemdlete | til | 08:38 |
| systemdlete | So it was the combination of the two options: :set mouse= and unchecking the (auto) copy to clipboard feature in either terminal program. | 08:39 |
| systemdlete | gnarface: For whatever reason, mouse=a in beowulf by default, whereas in ascii, it is clear | 08:42 |
| gnarface | hmmm, odd | 08:42 |
| man_in_shack | gtk3 is kinda nice for development from what i've seen | 08:53 |
| man_in_shack | problem is it's got too much gnome in it | 08:53 |
| man_in_shack | "developer should decide how title bar functions" is shit | 08:53 |
| systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1164501/ | 09:44 |
| systemdlete | I have decided to install a set of syslog-ng packages that are up to date (3.29) from an unofficial build repo that is linked from syslog-ng's website. | 09:45 |
| systemdlete | I'm OK with this because the VM I am installing it on is only a dev box anyway. | 09:45 |
| systemdlete | I'm confused: Does it want to upgrade? Does it want to downgrade? Am I in the right city? | 09:46 |
| systemdlete | Is this MY apartment? | 09:46 |
| systemdlete | Who am I anyway? | 09:46 |
| systemdlete | (This must be the most confusing message I've seen yet coming from apt*) | 09:47 |
| systemdlete | btw, I had to kinda "force" the install because initially it would only upgrade a couple of packages. | 09:47 |
| systemdlete | I did this by going back and "apt install syslog-ng" which set off the whole cascade of install deps and looked like it did it successfully. | 09:48 |
| systemdlete | Except for one package. | 09:48 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: try it with --no-install-recommends maybe? | 09:51 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: i'm not sure though, but the dependencies may be broken, i'm not sure if ">= 3.19.1-5" but "< 3.19.1-5.1~" is even possible | 09:52 |
| systemdlete | I doubt it. | 09:52 |
| systemdlete | and --no-install-recommends did not help, sorry | 09:52 |
| gnarface | hmm, does that at least remove the warning about systemd from the error? | 09:53 |
| systemdlete | yes! | 09:53 |
| gnarface | ok | 09:53 |
| gnarface | maybe you can just change the ./debian/rules file or whatever it is that contains that dependency list | 09:53 |
| systemdlete | but it still can't decide if it wants to be an elephant or a fish | 09:53 |
| systemdlete | what about --force? | 09:54 |
| gnarface | well, if you're building it anyway, which is what i assumed, just change the dependencies to be something that works | 09:54 |
| systemdlete | no I am not building it | 09:54 |
| gnarface | oh | 09:54 |
| systemdlete | Just using an unofficial repo, that's all. A repo linked to from their community site | 09:55 |
| gnarface | well you might have to in order to get the versions to match up anyway | 09:55 |
| systemdlete | might have to build it? | 09:55 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure what force would do in this context, if anything | 09:55 |
| gnarface | is syslog-ng-core even in the repo? what version? | 09:56 |
| gnarface | you might have to rebuild it so that it requests the right version | 09:56 |
| gnarface | or you might have to build the right version of that too | 09:56 |
| systemdlete | no, all the packages were built. The maintainer even posts the build logs! | 09:57 |
| systemdlete | no errors I could see, gnarface | 09:57 |
| systemdlete | but, look at this | 09:57 |
| systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1164504/ (I tried upgrade on a lark...) | 09:58 |
| systemdlete | I could be breaking armf. Which is not really possible, is it? | 09:58 |
| gnarface | is this a package for debian? | 09:58 |
| systemdlete | *.deb packages, yes | 09:59 |
| systemdlete | not for devuan specifically, no | 09:59 |
| gnarface | it seems to be for the wrong version of debian | 09:59 |
| systemdlete | ah | 09:59 |
| gnarface | to match the version of devuan you were using | 09:59 |
| systemdlete | oh | 09:59 |
| gnarface | so you'll have to correct that one way or another first, to find out if anything else about the systemd dependency needs to be removed | 09:59 |
| systemdlete | crap you are right | 09:59 |
| systemdlete | I keep getting all these versions mixed up | 10:00 |
| systemdlete | I should be looking at 10/buster for beowulf, not 9 | 10:00 |
| * systemdlete sheepishly wanders off to fix the situation... | 10:00 | |
| man_in_shack | systemdlete: it looks to me like that syslog-ng-mod-journal is too old for the repo's syslog-ng-core | 10:01 |
| man_in_shack | -journal depends on an older version of -core than you have installed | 10:01 |
| man_in_shack | so it's possible that the -journal stuff got rolled in to -core | 10:01 |
| systemdlete | nah. I kafuffled. I was pointing to repos for deb9, instead of deb10. my bad | 10:05 |
| systemdlete | And it is much happier, everyone. I now have syslog-ng 3.29, which I think is their latest official release, even if it is coming from an UNofficial repo. | 10:06 |
| systemdlete | Apparently one CAN build 3.29 for beowulf (buster)... The install didn't even burp about u-no-wott | 10:07 |
| user282069 | ahoy o/ i have some unmet dependencies for wine32:i386 | 16:07 |
| user282069 | grrr | 16:07 |
| user282069 | the non devuan repos are gitlab, nginx, nodesource, yarn | 16:08 |
| user282069 | i guess they are all suspect. trying to install with only pure devuan repos gives the same result though | 16:09 |
| user282069 | thank you for your time and any thoughts. i've had trouble with wine before | 16:10 |
| debdog | it's been a while but IIRC following this guide https://wiki.winehq.org/Debian helped. Esp. the the bold lines on the top. | 16:10 |
| user282069 | ye thank you dd o/ that leads to pulling in something randomly hosted by opensuse | 16:12 |
| user282069 | and ye i think has worked for me before | 16:12 |
| debdog | pulling in, how? just fetch the packages manually and install them with dpkg -i | 16:14 |
| user282069 | ok thank you very much yes. i did not understand. will try | 16:16 |
| debdog | you might have to install one or more dependencies from the devuan repo. dpkg will point out which one(s) | 16:17 |
| debdog | well, IIRC, that is | 16:17 |
| user282069 | yes of course. no worries and thank you for sharing. in the highlighted bits of your first link it's dpkg -i libfaudio0;;; this is failing on libsdl2-2 which fails on libpulse0 all :i386 | 16:26 |
| user282069 | depends: libdbus-1-3:i386 | 16:27 |
| user282069 | and so i strongly suspect;;;; i dunno. it's a pretty fresh install... i thought i hadn't mucked around so much yet | 16:28 |
| debdog | well, install them | 16:29 |
| user282069 | ah ye look at that; one more step | 16:30 |
| user282069 | if i ask it to install that dbus it will | 16:30 |
| wikan | hola :) | 17:16 |
| * wikan waves | 17:17 | |
| wikan | just came to read in silence ;) | 17:17 |
| * wikan is watching you | 17:20 | |
| willow | anyone here using a raspberry pi4? at the forums ShorTie posted up a script to install devuan, has anyone tried it out? | 18:30 |
| ranix | I'm still on B+ | 18:30 |
| willow | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3526 | 18:30 |
| willow | i'll have a look at 3b+ builds, is it working ok? | 18:32 |
| ranix | no problems so far for both debian and devuan | 18:32 |
| ranix | I only have one devuan raspi though | 18:32 |
| ranix | and all it does is show a feed of 6 security cameras | 18:32 |
| willow | wow, that's pretty good for a pi | 18:32 |
| willow | low res i take it | 18:33 |
| ranix | I think it's 640x480 | 18:35 |
| ham5urg | Would it be possible to compile Devuan for this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Banana-Pi-BPI-R2-Smart-Router-Hardware/264780512034 ? | 18:35 |
| ranix | it works great because 1080/3=640 | 18:35 |
| ranix | vlc won't do it because too much ram | 18:35 |
| ranix | so used omxplayer | 18:35 |
| ham5urg | I would like to have a Devuan-Arm-Router. | 18:35 |
| willow | efficiet : ) | 18:35 |
| ham5urg | Maybe someone has already done so. | 18:36 |
| willow | efficient | 18:36 |
| ranix | do you even have to compile it ham5urg | 18:38 |
| ham5urg | ranix, I don't know, I'm just checking if a Devuan-Arm user is here to ask for his experience | 18:39 |
| willow | the banana pi A20 is listed as supported hardware https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/embedded/README.txt | 18:40 |
| willow | did the rpi 3b+ build come with xfce or any other gui? | 18:42 |
| ranix | yeah there was some kind of gui, I don't recall if it was xfce | 18:43 |
| ranix | ham5urg: you might find that it's so well supported it's hard to find information about it because nobody has problems with it | 18:43 |
| ham5urg | ranix, I will look at it but will take a look at lattepanda boards too. | 18:54 |
| ham5urg | I've installed GOS beta (Android 11). Is it possible to randomize the MAC of Bluetooth | 23:47 |
| ham5urg | and Randomize the MAC of Wifi | 23:48 |
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