| xrogaan | Apparently, the popcon email was defunct the 14 and 15 September. | 00:28 |
|---|---|---|
| xrogaan | I got 'Mail delivery failed' message for survey@popcon.devuan.org | 00:31 |
| sinned6915 | lo | 08:50 |
| sinned6915 | i just installed devuan and am confused about a couple of things | 08:50 |
| Joril | Hi! Such as? | 08:51 |
| sinned6915 | the sytem seem to into sleep mode and i can not get it out | 08:52 |
| sinned6915 | i installed beowolf and the xde desktop | 08:52 |
| sinned6915 | nothing i do brings back the desktop | 08:53 |
| sinned6915 | and when i try to update or uprade a package, i get warnings.. sec for actual verbage | 08:53 |
| gnarface | sinned6915: just guessing but your /etc/apt/sources.list is probably wrong (the usual mistake at this phase) | 08:56 |
| gnarface | sinned6915: after you get it to update right, it might sleep properly but not all drivers and hardware is known to wake reliably or properly from sleep, unfortunately this is something vendors typically skimp on in their Linux support | 08:57 |
| sinned6915 | i updated my sources file per the readme on teh devuan website | 08:58 |
| gnarface | sinned6915: ...and while beowulf-backports has a newer kernel and drivers you can try, in many cases that hasn't fixed sleep on nvidia hardware for me so you very likely might have to disable sleep | 08:58 |
| sinned6915 | is beowolf too new ? | 08:58 |
| sinned6915 | should i have installed the other one? | 08:59 |
| gnarface | sinned6915: no, but there is outdated info about the sources.list floating around. paste yours at paste.debian.net or just /msg it to me if you want me to proofread it for you | 08:59 |
| sinned6915 | sec | 08:59 |
| sinned6915 | i am seakerneting | 09:00 |
| gnarface | https://paste.debian.net/1165074/ | 09:00 |
| gnarface | here is a current example that will include non-free stuff like nvidia drivers | 09:00 |
| gnarface | if you just want core components you can safely omit "contrib" and "non-free" as long as you omit it from every line | 09:01 |
| gnarface | if you put auto.mirror.* in your source.list you followed the outdated info | 09:02 |
| gnarface | sources.list, i mean | 09:02 |
| sinned6915 | https://pastebin.com/AbpQK6Eu | 09:04 |
| sinned6915 | is my sources | 09:04 |
| gnarface | yea that's notgonna work | 09:04 |
| gnarface | compare it to mine and you should easily see why | 09:05 |
| gnarface | you have beowulf-security and beowulf-updates but not beowulf itself | 09:05 |
| gnarface | also you have beowulf-security twice | 09:05 |
| gnarface | but that won't matter | 09:05 |
| sinned6915 | yes, i see the differences | 09:06 |
| sinned6915 | the main thing i wanted to do was use gcc to compile some things | 09:06 |
| sinned6915 | i am usually on windows machine, and wanted to move that off of it | 09:07 |
| gnarface | that's fine. you'll be able to do that. delete your whole sources.list and replace it with this, then try again: https://paste.debian.net/1165075/ | 09:07 |
| gnarface | "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" | 09:08 |
| sinned6915 | but when i try to use make -> command not found | 09:08 |
| gnarface | listen, you need to stay on task | 09:08 |
| gnarface | finish the update, then you can install anything you want, including make | 09:08 |
| gnarface | nothing will work right until that | 09:09 |
| sinned6915 | and when i try to find it, as in using which, i get no respsonse | 09:09 |
| gnarface | "which" only works for already-installed programs | 09:09 |
| gnarface | you would want "apt-cache search [pattern]" but that's getting ahead of yourself | 09:09 |
| gnarface | finish the update | 09:09 |
| sinned6915 | i see that gcc and gcc tools are installed via the symaptic packge manage | 09:09 |
| gnarface | there are multiple choices of package manager | 09:09 |
| sinned6915 | i am used to apt | 09:10 |
| sinned6915 | or i should say, more used to | 09:10 |
| gnarface | it is not expected for the developers tools to all be in one package | 09:10 |
| gnarface | there is a meta-package called "build-essential" that you can install which will get most but not all of them | 09:10 |
| gnarface | "make" would have been installed with the "standard system utilities" option from the tasksel phase of the installer though fyi | 09:11 |
| sinned6915 | ok, iwill check for that | 09:11 |
| sinned6915 | do you use xrdp? | 09:11 |
| gnarface | none of that really matters now, you have to get the upgrade completed before you start doing stuff | 09:11 |
| sinned6915 | oh , sorry. | 09:11 |
| gnarface | and, no, i use vnc when i need a remote desktop, and i would advise you to do the same | 09:12 |
| sinned6915 | i did change my sources to the first past you gave | 09:12 |
| sinned6915 | and updated and upgraded already | 09:12 |
| gnarface | ok | 09:12 |
| gnarface | install build-essential then too | 09:12 |
| gnarface | should get most of what you're missing from the development tools but sometimes things get forgotten | 09:12 |
| sinned6915 | i considered vnc, | 09:12 |
| gnarface | since you mentioned you're a Windows refugee, i should tell you that most the time you won't really need more than ssh | 09:13 |
| sinned6915 | but after some searching thought xrdp might be simperl | 09:13 |
| gnarface | meh, simpler if you have to connect to a windows machine someone else already configured as a rdp host maybe | 09:13 |
| sinned6915 | more like a windows convict | 09:13 |
| sinned6915 | no, i want to connect from windows to devuan | 09:14 |
| gnarface | oh, hmmm | 09:14 |
| gnarface | yea i would say go with VNC | 09:14 |
| gnarface | but that's because i already know how to set it up and i assume the xrdp setup would be worse | 09:14 |
| sinned6915 | ok, will try taht then | 09:14 |
| gnarface | but i guess i honestly don't know | 09:14 |
| gnarface | also, doesn't xrdp only support 8-bit color? | 09:15 |
| gnarface | it's been a few years since i had to use it | 09:15 |
| sinned6915 | yeah, i usually use ssh to connect to my raspi, | 09:15 |
| sinned6915 | but was hoping to have gui access too | 09:16 |
| gnarface | well you will have it | 09:16 |
| sinned6915 | ok, so its wanting to install a whole bunch of stuff with build-essential | 09:17 |
| sinned6915 | thank you | 09:17 |
| gnarface | no problem | 09:17 |
| sinned6915 | i have been foundeing for most of the night | 09:17 |
| sinned6915 | i appreciate the help | 09:17 |
| gnarface | another important example: apt-get build-dep [package name] | 09:17 |
| gnarface | that is supposed to get any additional build dependencies unique to the named package that are not in build-essential, though in my experience stuff like bison/mason/yacc get left behind a lot anyway | 09:18 |
| gnarface | sometimes you gotta just read the build errors and see what it's complaining about | 09:18 |
| sinned6915 | ah, good reminder | 09:18 |
| sinned6915 | now i need to figure out which other gcc packages i need | 09:19 |
| gnarface | i probably can't help with that but if you get build errors trying to build something i might be able to guess | 09:19 |
| gnarface | apt-cache search [pattern] | 09:20 |
| gnarface | ^ apt-cache supports regexp patterns for searching, fyi | 09:20 |
| gnarface | helps narrow stuff down a bit | 09:20 |
| gnarface | if you know some regexp | 09:20 |
| sinned6915 | yeah, that is what i figured. that and searching for like debian arm gcc package to find its sactually namesd "gcc-arm-none-eabi" | 09:22 |
| sinned6915 | its been a while since i have used many of these. its coming back to me | 09:22 |
| gnarface | the names are really annoying :) | 09:22 |
| sinned6915 | yeah, when i first came to the devuan site to get iso, beowolf threw me. | 09:25 |
| sinned6915 | i know/knew it as the cluster linux | 09:26 |
| gnarface | unrelated, it's actually from a list of names of celestial bodies | 09:26 |
| gnarface | they all were, even though jessie was also chosen by debian for unrelated reasons | 09:27 |
| fling | Are not bundled deps allowed in devuan? | 09:41 |
| gnarface | fling: it's not about devuan, it's about debian, and i think it's allowed it's just generally frowned upon | 09:45 |
| gnarface | fling: there's over 60,000 packages and if every one of them bundled all their dependencies the base install size would increase by a factor of probably around 12 | 09:47 |
| FlibberTGibbet | yikes. have been using MX on my laptop (a few things worked better with the odd Dell mix of graphics cards for some reason), but they really do barge ahead dangerously fast with their own repo updates | 10:45 |
| FlibberTGibbet | apt just 'got rid' of cinnamon because they'd moved many dependencies far along :) | 10:45 |
| FlibberTGibbet | back to devuan on the new box, as and when that happens | 10:46 |
| fling | gnarface: I'm just thinking why don't they add lxd with all the bundled deps as is. | 11:09 |
| nemo | 0% [Connecting to packages.roundr.devuan.org 5.196.38.18] on every update attempt | 14:21 |
| nemo | any suggestions? | 14:21 |
| nemo | this after a bunch of updates work | 14:21 |
| nemo | on 22nd fetch actually | 14:22 |
| gnarface | nemo: outdated hostname i think | 14:24 |
| nemo | gnarface: I'm using deb.devuan.org/merged so suggests issue is upstream | 14:24 |
| nemo | can I use an alternate name? | 14:24 |
| nemo | hm. or do you mean local DNS cache? guess I could try clearing it. | 14:25 |
| gnarface | dunno but deb.devuan.org works for me | 14:25 |
| nemo | yeah gonna guess it's just that 5.196.38.18 that is timing out | 14:27 |
| nemo | you guys use dns round robin? | 14:27 |
| gnarface | it is yes | 14:27 |
| nemo | hm... | 14:27 |
| xinomilo | deb.devuan.org is the RR | 14:28 |
| gnarface | your cache might indeed be out of date i'm not seeing that one in the list anymore | 14:28 |
| nemo | 'k | 14:28 |
| nemo | not seeing it in a dig either | 14:28 |
| DHE | your network is working correctly, yes? ping 8.8.8.8 or something? | 14:29 |
| gnarface | but packages.devuan.org isn't coming up anymore for me either | 14:30 |
| nemo | \]'[p-0;0olik8uj8hytgrfedwsedrftgyhujiklop;[']= | 14:30 |
| gnarface | files.devuan.org is still | 14:30 |
| nemo | ack sorry | 14:30 |
| nemo | knocked coffee onto table *sigh* | 14:30 |
| DHE | I'm getting responses but DNS is slow | 14:30 |
| nemo | anyway it's just this machine misbehaving | 14:30 |
| nemo | others on network are fine | 14:30 |
| nemo | lemme clear caches | 14:30 |
| nemo | weird | 14:32 |
| nemo | I bounced network cache, restarted local network... and it is still trying to use that IP | 14:32 |
| nemo | even though it does not show up in dig list | 14:32 |
| gnarface | proxy? | 14:32 |
| nemo | no | 14:34 |
| nemo | guess I'll try files.devuan.org for now | 14:34 |
| xinomilo | deb.devuan.org | 14:34 |
| xinomilo | https://www.devuan.org/os/packages | 14:35 |
| nemo | ohhhhh | 14:35 |
| nemo | haha | 14:35 |
| nemo | there's a devuan.list in sources.list.d | 14:35 |
| nemo | whyyyy | 14:35 |
| nemo | which uses packages.devuan.org | 14:36 |
| nemo | got suspicious when changing sources.list did nothing | 14:36 |
| nemo | hah. all better | 14:36 |
| nemo | this install is pretty old | 14:37 |
| nemo | dates back to when I was trying to do a custom kernel to work around bugs in hardware on the laptop | 14:37 |
| nemo | so... I guess I put that in there for... some reason... probably based on advice here ☺ | 14:37 |
| nemo | anyway. all better now. | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | sources.list.d/devuan.list is no longer needed. Hasn't been needed for a long time, and it's probably got the wrong repos listed. | 14:56 |
| mtu | after riding a Debian Jessie install all the way to the end of its LTS, i'm looking for options for that box, and considering Devuan. what does the release lifecycle look like? Will Beowulf be supported until the end of Buster in mid-2022, or until the end of Buster LTS in mid-2024? | 15:10 |
| gnarface | mtu: yes | 15:24 |
| Joril | gnarface: :D | 15:25 |
| xrogaan | nemo: when in doubt, check the host: `host deb.devuan.org'. | 15:34 |
| xrogaan | in other news, firefox upgraded to 78.3-esr (finally) | 15:36 |
| mtu | gnarface: is that a 'yes, until mid-2024' or a 'we don't know yet'? | 15:37 |
| fsmithred | mtu, we use debian kernel unchanged, so that will be supported as long as it's supported | 15:37 |
| fsmithred | and whatever else gets LTS other than systemd stuff | 15:37 |
| mtu | fsmithred: thanks, that's what i was wondering | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | all but a couple hundred packages come from debian unchanged | 15:38 |
| mtu | avoiding systemd and not having to bother with major system upgrades are two main concerns here, so that's good to know | 15:41 |
| r3boot | mtu: in all fairness, if those are your concerns, I'd also check openbsd. That has a very predictable lifecycle + upgrade path | 16:04 |
| mason | Every six months is the opposite of LTS. | 16:21 |
| r3boot | depends on your definition of LTS. In practice, openbsd is way more stable over multiple releases than linux ever was.. But offtopic! | 16:23 |
| mason | LTS wouldn't mean a major version upgrade every six months. :P | 16:23 |
| mtu | r3boot: good suggestion, I'm already a friend of FreeBSD for certain applications. but here, BSD doesn't seem viable (for convoluted reasons to do with hardware compatibility) | 17:51 |
| r3boot | ghe.. hardware compatiblity is a thing yeah | 17:52 |
| gast0n | hi, deb.devuan.org is with trouble? | 19:01 |
| n4dir | just did an apt-get update which worked, but yesterday i had to run it a second time. | 19:08 |
| hagbard_ | Hi, has anyone here experience with running devuan entirely without pulseaudio? Can electron apps (Discord) directly talk to alsa, or is apulse needed? | 19:58 |
| specing | hagbard_: stop using proprietary software | 20:17 |
| mason | hagbard_: Yeah, I run Beowulf without PulseAudio, and the Chrome works, so I imagine Electron would. Steam does, for everything I've tried. | 20:19 |
| hagbard_ | Nice. | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | tor-browser is the only thing I have that needs apulse | 20:20 |
| hagbard_ | is it enough to configure a dmix, or is something else needed? | 20:20 |
| mason | hagbard_: The only issue I've had is that some videoconferencing stuff wasn't happy on Firefox. Tested via https://test.webrtc.org/ | 20:20 |
| mason | fsmithred: Oh, totally forgot, but same experience here. | 20:20 |
| mason | hagbard_: All you want is alsa-utils. | 20:21 |
| mason | hagbard_: I did have to set up an ~/.asoundrc to accomodate my microphone being on my webcam, but that wasn't bad: https://bpa.st/XAXQ | 20:22 |
| hagbard_ | might have to do that to, because by default it prefers hdmi before analog | 20:27 |
| n4dir | speaking of such: i watch a how-to for vcvRack in vlc, try to applay it, start jack, start vcvRack, connect it to system output via catia/carla, all fine, but no more sound in vlc. Set vlc to use jack instead of default, restart it, but still no sound from vlc. | 20:40 |
| n4dir | applay/aply | 20:41 |
| n4dir | sorry, got it sorted. set vlc to use pulse and started pulse in cadence. whew. sorry for the noise | 20:43 |
| Hurgotron | Not exactly (just) Devuan related, but does anyone have an idea why printing with Linux is so abysmally bad these days? Maybe there are printers which work fine, but my 20 year old Kyocera FS-1010 with Postscript emulation USED to work perfectly with Ubuntu 6 or somesuch. These days, printouts take MINUTES per page which a much faster computer, and sometimes look like shit, depending on the application. | 21:00 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: hm. everything seems great over here. | 21:01 |
| Hurgotron | I'm kinda sure postscript and PCL and whatever the optiona re didn't change much in the meantime. | 21:01 |
| nemo | admittedly I'm just printing on my brother laser | 21:01 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: if you are printing high quality raster that will be slooooooooow | 21:01 |
| hagbard_ | Never had any trouble with printing. I just put the postscript-thingy-file in cups and that's it. | 21:02 |
| nemo | or if your print settins do that always even for text | 21:02 |
| Hurgotron | *sighs* | 21:02 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: slow even with good network since printer hardware tends to be crappy and have small buffers | 21:02 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: if same printer is sucking now, I do wonder if you are printing as bitmap or something | 21:02 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: have you tried generating the postscript locally before sending it off to the printer spool directly, to be sure it is receiving what you think it is? | 21:03 |
| nemo | shortcircuit your gui? | 21:03 |
| Hurgotron | nemo: admittedly it's an old network printer, but since it still works and printing is much slower now, I wonder what has changed. I do the same things as before - printing from browser, printing from PDF. | 21:04 |
| Hurgotron | There are some "interesting" bugs like this one. | 21:06 |
| Hurgotron | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups-filters/+bug/998087 | 21:06 |
| Hurgotron | where you have to change the rendering backend in order to make things work at all. | 21:06 |
| Hurgotron | but I sometimes REALLY hate technology if things that used to work perfectly turn to crap in the "new and improved" versions. I'm currently tempted to run Ubuntu 6 in a VM as a printer driver. | 21:08 |
| Hurgotron | I already spent some time on debugging that in the past, see the URL, but the printing subsystem is too convoluted these days for me to grasp. | 21:10 |
| Hurgotron | Back in the classic MacOS times, you used the Postscript printer driver and never had any problem again. *grumbles* | 21:10 |
| Hurgotron | nemo: Sending known good Postscript files with lpr or even netcat still works fine. And why shouldn't it. The printer is not broken. | 21:12 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: could be people wanted higher quality printing w/ raster or something, and the way to hack it into driver reliably was just to always raster | 21:12 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: stupid-slow makes me think that's what it is doing. and maybe that can be turned off or another driver swapped in | 21:12 |
| nemo | over here at least, w/ my current settings, my printer is snappy, fast, reliable | 21:12 |
| Hurgotron | It would be NICE if some things just kept working instead of making me reverse engineer because some software author made the assumption no one has a printer more then 3 years old or WHATEVER. | 21:14 |
| Hurgotron | I think I once converted to bitmap and printed with gimp because it was faster. | 21:15 |
| Hurgotron | xv still works fine, BTW. Makes me want to go back to static linking, bugs be dammed, but "progress" even more. | 21:17 |
| hagbard_ | Have a line printer from the 80s that works out of the box. | 21:17 |
| * Hurgotron goes rebooting the printer because after 1 hour there' no hope for the last 3 remaining pages | 21:18 | |
| nemo | Hurgotron: hm.. surprising to me gimp would be faster | 21:35 |
| nemo | unless the dpi was lower | 21:35 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: like... 90 vs 300 or something | 21:35 |
| Hurgotron | OK, maybe I shouldn't have used Firefox printing. With atril, things go smoothly. At least this time, with this document. | 21:37 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: oh... let's see what default dpi is in firefox. *checks* | 21:37 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: they might be assuming photo quality | 21:37 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: 300dpi vs 90 dpi would be 11x difference - and probably even slower if poor printer's buffers get overwhelmed | 21:38 |
| Hurgotron | it was a text pdf. It would just be slightly insane to render it to photo quality graphics first. | 21:38 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: in about:config print.default_dpi is set to 144 | 21:39 |
| nemo | over here anyway | 21:39 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: oh wait. | 21:39 |
| hagbard_ | Shouldn't Atril, Firefox and Gimp use cups in the very same way? | 21:39 |
| nemo | you printed it from pdf.js ? | 21:39 |
| nemo | the mozilla built in pdf printer? | 21:39 |
| nemo | er pdf viewer | 21:39 |
| Hurgotron | print.default_dpi doesn't exist here | 21:40 |
| nemo | huh | 21:40 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: oh. I'm in a nightly firefox *pulls up ESR* | 21:40 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: but firefox built in pdf.js probably uses a canvas | 21:40 |
| nemo | so is 100% raster | 21:40 |
| Hurgotron | Yes, mozilla built in pdf viewer | 21:40 |
| nemo | at, if I recall my old playing with it on website, 150DPI by default | 21:40 |
| nemo | it's not terribly configurable | 21:41 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: ok. yeah. that config setting doesn't exist in ESR | 21:41 |
| Hurgotron | I'm on 77.0.1 actually, and there's no setting *dpi* | 21:41 |
| nemo | eh prob same reason 😝 | 21:42 |
| * nemo can't be bothered to download stable to check | 21:42 | |
| Hurgotron | nm | 21:42 |
| Hurgotron | hagbard_: good question. But I would guess from the symptoms that firefox does its own thing | 21:43 |
| Hurgotron | xv, the ancient picture viewer, does too. But since it still does things like last century, it still works fine :P | 21:44 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: pdf.js works in a more limited sandbox | 21:44 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: for, you know, general purpose use and security reasons | 21:45 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: it would not surprise me that it *can't* do anything but raster | 21:45 |
| nemo | but I'm sure some hacks could be done. maybe it hasn't been a priority | 21:45 |
| * nemo RTFSes | 21:46 | |
| Hurgotron | I probably should go back to launching an external viewer. It always stroke me as the smaller risk, because pdf.js something an attacker expects and atril is not | 21:46 |
| nemo | heh | 21:46 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: g/l w/ that approach ☺ | 21:46 |
| Hurgotron | (well actually the attacker expects some adobe shit which I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole) | 21:47 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: well, these days they'd probably be attacking the chrome lib | 21:49 |
| nemo | not sure what the history of the chrome plugin is, and what history it shares with FOSS PDF parsing, and what if anything is inherent to the PDF format itself | 21:50 |
| nemo | but hey, you do you ☺ | 21:50 |
| Hurgotron | possibly. I was (well except printing) happy with Firefox and uBlock origin and uMatrix, but given the recent developments I'm not sure what the future of Firefox and uMatrix will be. | 21:51 |
| nemo | yeah. well, umatrix has been abandoned. not clear if he was sick of community demands or just tired of maintaining it. he'd said it was a side thing and would not get as much attention as ublock | 21:51 |
| nemo | it will need a fork I guess. assuming it needs much maintenance at this point | 21:52 |
| Hurgotron | I think there are forks already | 21:52 |
| nemo | I use a combination of noscript for convenience and umatrix for some slightly more aggressive defaults | 21:52 |
| Hurgotron | but for special browsers or somesuch, didn't look into it much | 21:52 |
| Hurgotron | I was happy to get rid of noscript back then. umatrix works much better for me, but YMMV | 21:53 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: they block different things, and umatrix is less convenient to use for one-off whitelists | 21:57 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: so I still prefer noscript | 21:57 |
| nemo | I mostly use umatrix to ensure blocking of 3rd party statics | 21:57 |
| nemo | everything else I'm happy w/ noscript defaults | 21:57 |
| Hurgotron | using umatrix and just whitelisting bits if something doesn't work. Maybe it's less convenient, but I guess I got used to it. | 21:58 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: yeah, just cloned pdf.js - print generates a canvas at 150dpi and writes to it | 21:59 |
| nemo | so it'll always be raster I think | 21:59 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: it's *especially* annoying on mobile to use umatrix with that approach | 21:59 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: but even on desktop I like noscript's one stop shop toggle | 22:00 |
| nemo | also, yeah, the sets of blocks do not quite overlap each one blocks thigns the other doesn't | 22:00 |
| Hurgotron | admittedly, umatrix on mobile is less convenient. But I was quite happy to have it :) | 22:00 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: ofc on mobile these days noscript is the *only* option now ☹ | 22:00 |
| nemo | ⅔rds of my addons blocked, and the paternalistic attitude towards about:config ... | 22:01 |
| Hurgotron | as long as the old umatrix works... | 22:01 |
| nemo | no | 22:01 |
| nemo | do you not use firefox on mobile? | 22:01 |
| Hurgotron | I do | 22:01 |
| nemo | the old firefox does. the f.droid one... | 22:01 |
| Hurgotron | ah, i didn't upgrade | 22:01 |
| nemo | but ofc it's vulnerable now ☹ and seems they have no intention of patching it | 22:01 |
| Hurgotron | I think I'm less exposed with a buggy FF and umatrix than with a recent one and no umatrix. ofc depends on the attack vector, but in general. | 22:02 |
| Hurgotron | (and I don't trust mobile devices much, therefore the info I have on them is *very* limted) | 22:03 |
| nemo | Hurgotron: the attack vector is pretty bad | 22:06 |
| nemo | do NOT connect to untrusted wifi | 22:06 |
| nemo | which is one reason I'm pissed at them with not patching, given how recently they pushed out the new crap | 22:06 |
| Hurgotron | pockt *cough* | 22:07 |
| Hurgotron | 22:07 | |
| nemo | your cough screwed up your typing 😝 | 22:07 |
| nemo | but I don't get the hate on pocket. plenty of people like it, it offers them some modicum of non-google revenue which the haters also berate them for not having... | 22:07 |
| nemo | aaand impact on your browser is virtually nil. nil if you turn it off | 22:08 |
| Hurgotron | FF could need the FF treatment again. A fork to get rid of the Mozilla crap | 22:08 |
| nemo | if you want mozilla to survive, whining about pocket is not the way to go | 22:08 |
| nemo | but mozilla is probably doomed anyway ☹ | 22:08 |
| Hurgotron | I want FF and Thunderbird to survive, not so sure about Mozilla. | 22:09 |
| nemo | I don't think those two can be separated. mozilla is literally the only alternate web standard implementation left besides google's | 22:10 |
| nemo | and trying to fork would I think guarantee an even quicker death | 22:10 |
| Hurgotron | maybe, but remember how Firefox came to life. | 22:11 |
| Hurgotron | it was a blessing back then. | 22:11 |
| nemo | in a vacuum, without a competitor determined to kill it off. | 22:11 |
| nemo | and with a fair amount of starting money and developers | 22:11 |
| nemo | but yes, I do remember, I used mozilla suite as soon as it existed and netscape before. hell. I still use seamonkey now | 22:12 |
| brocashelm | ^ are these issues unique to devuan or just firefox/thunderbird in general (try #devuan-offtopic or #debianfork)? | 22:12 |
| Hurgotron | IIRC FF was a fork, don#t remember by whom, and Mozilla was not happy about it | 22:12 |
| Hurgotron | brocashelm: you're right, sorry. | 22:12 |
| brocashelm | np | 22:12 |
| nemo | brocashelm: yeah. started out with Hurgotron complaining about debian printing and it was narrowed down to pdf.js sandbox doing raster (which matched my intuition of the dramatic speed variance) | 22:15 |
| nemo | brocashelm: and then went wildly off topic | 22:15 |
| Hurgotron | still relevant to Linux in general at least. :P :) | 22:16 |
| brocashelm | it makes it easier for the devs and other regulars to scroll back in case they missed anything important pertaining to devuan. the staff created those channels so all other subjects could be discussed there. feel free to join! | 22:19 |
| golinux | brocashelm: Thank you for minding the channel. :) | 22:51 |
| willow | Hey, anyone had any success with a raspberry pi 4 here? | 23:03 |
| willow | I read the forums and ShorTie posted up a script that uses the raspbian kernel i think | 23:04 |
| willow | also out this week is a puppy version based on devuan | 23:05 |
| golinux | willow: There is also a #devuan-arm channel | 23:36 |
| willow | oh cool forgot that, thx | 23:37 |
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