suavedandy | I'm bacc. | 00:51 |
---|---|---|
MinceR | hi bacc, i'm dad | 00:52 |
* suavedandy giggles | 00:52 | |
suavedandy | I wanted to set up a window manager. | 00:53 |
suavedandy | Should I install Xorg first? Or does it bring unnecessary bloat with it? | 00:54 |
suavedandy | The xorg metapackage. | 00:54 |
suavedandy | I mean, Xorg gets installed as a dep anyway. | 00:54 |
suavedandy | Like, all WMs depend on the Xserver. | 00:55 |
suavedandy | And display managers. | 00:55 |
rennj | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/minimal-xorg-install.html | 00:57 |
rennj | note the intel nvidia amd drivers | 00:58 |
rennj | you want less bloat dont install unneeded drivers | 00:58 |
rennj | less bloat install a window manager and not a Desktop Environment | 00:59 |
rennj | twm,mwm,fvwm vs xfce,kde,gnome | 00:59 |
rennj | fonts same deal | 01:00 |
rennj | for over decade i do kernel/firmware/gnu coreutils/xorg/vmware player 128MB - 360MB.iso | 01:04 |
rennj | soon 500MB! | 01:04 |
rennj | in-memory ramos poor mans version of vmware esxi with vcenter | 01:05 |
rennj | back when vcenter required winblows box | 01:05 |
golinux | Is there a support question in there? | 01:07 |
rennj | gatekeeper! | 01:07 |
rennj | want less bloat go embedded buildroot | 01:07 |
rennj | dump the gnu glibc | 01:07 |
rennj | musl uclibc | 01:07 |
rennj | perhaps redhats newlibc | 01:08 |
rennj | hehe | 01:08 |
golinux | Yeah. Maybe take your rant to OT | 01:09 |
mason | To be fair, rennj was answering suavedandy's question about achieving less bloat, maybe just taken to endgame. :P | 01:11 |
mason | suavedandy: The best way to avoid bloat is generally to install with --no-install-recommends. | 01:11 |
rennj | gatekeeper doesnt care about that | 01:11 |
rennj | this is repeated pattern | 01:11 |
rennj | facts dont matter | 01:11 |
rennj | heh | 01:11 |
mason | rennj: Suggesting a different libc might have been pursuing the goal with an unusual amount of zeal. | 01:12 |
rennj | you want less bloat you got to make choices.. | 01:12 |
mason | I think --no-install-recommends is the best balance of effort and reward at persent. He's already skipping a desktop environment, which is a good move. | 01:15 |
rennj | openbsd6.8 is bloat free for sure | 01:15 |
rennj | and comes with a compiler | 01:16 |
rennj | like 1.5GB | 01:16 |
rennj | nice unice for size and time period we live in | 01:16 |
rennj | whats slackware like 6GB | 01:16 |
rennj | my ramos is 360Mb.iso 1.2GB unsquashfs | 01:17 |
rennj | no compiler | 01:17 |
mason | rennj: Ah, you should be in #devuan-offtopic just to idle. I went to reply to the Slackware thing there, but you weren't there. | 01:17 |
rennj | tinycore linux is what 14MB | 01:18 |
rennj | once i switch to kvm/qemu and dump vmware | 01:18 |
rennj | ill be good | 01:18 |
mason | Slackware weighs in well north of 6GB, FWIW. | 01:18 |
rennj | without tex/tcl/tk/games/kde | 01:19 |
mason | kk | 01:19 |
rennj | just enough os | 01:19 |
rennj | remember jeos | 01:19 |
rennj | just enough os to run everything else in a vm, or lxc container | 01:19 |
mason | So, *I'd* be more comfortable talking about it in #devuan-offtopic, since I'm in there and I agree with keeping the main channel on-topic. That said, I'm going to go have dinner, so I'll be back in a bit. | 01:20 |
rennj | vmware and joyent smartos only onces doing it | 01:20 |
rennj | proxmox | 01:32 |
suavedandy | Okay, I went with rennj's instructions. | 01:47 |
rennj | not mine, that the link i googled | 01:48 |
rennj | google for you! | 01:48 |
suavedandy | Apparently, even with --without-recommends xorg metapackage still pulls some nouveue stuff. | 01:48 |
rennj | google : devuan xorg minimal install | 01:49 |
rennj | yeah nouveue is needed | 01:49 |
rennj | rust compile is my guess | 01:49 |
suavedandy | Well, I have Intel Integrated Graphics Registered Trademark. | 01:49 |
rennj | i removed libvouveue and xorg breaks | 01:49 |
rennj | im talking about the build of the binarys | 01:50 |
rennj | mesa or something | 01:50 |
rennj | some libs are linked in | 01:50 |
rennj | and even if you dont have nvidia hardware you still need some libs | 01:50 |
suavedandy | No, it, like, pulled xserver-xorg-video-nouveue | 01:50 |
suavedandy | Sure I set switches correctly. | 01:51 |
suavedandy | I did -Ry. | 01:51 |
suavedandy | -R for --without-recommends. | 01:51 |
suavedandy | And -y for self-explanatory lazy trick. | 01:51 |
suavedandy | But the method above works. | 01:52 |
rennj | like libLLVM you cant avoid some things | 01:52 |
suavedandy | No nouveue drivers. | 01:52 |
rennj | i have no nouveue driver | 01:52 |
rennj | and i still have to have libnouveue | 01:52 |
rennj | do you understand!!!!!! | 01:52 |
rennj | do you understand!!!!!! | 01:52 |
suavedandy | Me too. | 01:52 |
rennj | and i still have to have libnouveue | 01:52 |
rennj | because the compile most likely | 01:52 |
suavedandy | libnouveue2 | 01:52 |
suavedandy | The only nouveue package I have right now. | 01:53 |
suavedandy | Tho Rust I don't have. | 01:53 |
suavedandy | I don't make stuff with Rust. | 01:53 |
rennj | libcuda/libvulkan there is bunch of things going to pull in other things | 01:54 |
suavedandy | Although I heard some packages depend on it. | 01:54 |
rennj | dll hell | 01:55 |
suavedandy | Lel. | 01:55 |
suavedandy | It's like Windows all over again. | 01:55 |
rennj | always go back to static compiling, vs this dynamic mess | 01:55 |
rennj | why nix/guix declarative build systems | 01:56 |
suavedandy | I prefer sticking to binary repos. | 01:56 |
rennj | reproducible build system | 01:56 |
rrq | please move chit-chat to #devuan-offtopic | 01:57 |
suavedandy | I wasn't chit-chatting. | 01:57 |
suavedandy | Not me. | 01:57 |
suavedandy | I was just passing by. | 01:57 |
golinux | Are you talking about libnouveau? | 02:10 |
golinux | If so, would help to spell it correctly. suavedandy ^^^ | 02:33 |
suavedandy | The package is called libnouveue2 | 02:34 |
suavedandy | "2" may be just a version number. | 02:34 |
suavedandy | *libnouveau2 | 02:35 |
suavedandy | golinux: Come on, noone can spell this darn package correctly. | 02:35 |
suavedandy | It's a mess of a name. | 02:35 |
suavedandy | libnewwauw | 02:35 |
suavedandy | libneuwu | 02:36 |
* suavedandy uwus to furrywolf | 02:39 | |
golinux | Basic French | 02:40 |
furrywolf | awoo! | 02:40 |
suavedandy | OwO | 02:40 |
golinux | Sounds like that needs to move to #offtopic . . . please | 02:41 |
suavedandy | Basic French. Which I never learned. | 02:41 |
suavedandy | golinux: We barely said anything. | 02:42 |
golinux | Actually you said nothing. | 02:43 |
golinux | take it to the right place. | 02:43 |
* suavedandy shrugs | 02:44 | |
clort | atlas shrugged | 04:17 |
* Xenguy really despises Ayn Rand ... | 04:47 | |
mason | I do too, but in #devuan-offtopic. | 04:52 |
* golinux sends mason a hug for trying | 04:56 | |
mason | Oh, you're not over there! I've decided it's a relatively useful channel. | 04:59 |
clort | gofundme steals money now | 09:27 |
suavedandy | I still don't understand why OpenRC can't stop anacron. | 17:34 |
gnarface | only anacron? | 17:36 |
suavedandy | Yeah. | 17:37 |
gnarface | weird | 17:37 |
gnarface | any error? | 17:37 |
suavedandy | It says action "start" is meaningless. | 17:37 |
suavedandy | *"stop" | 17:37 |
gnarface | oh | 17:37 |
gnarface | what if you don't specify any action? | 17:37 |
gnarface | does it print the available actions? | 17:38 |
suavedandy | It says this when I shut down. | 17:38 |
suavedandy | I don't specify anything. | 17:38 |
gnarface | huh | 17:38 |
gnarface | that's weird, sounds like a bug, but maybe one that's easy to fix | 17:38 |
gnarface | either it's calling the wrong action, or the action is missing | 17:38 |
gnarface | actually stopping anacron should be easy | 17:39 |
suavedandy | It also finds "resolvable dependency loops" on startup. | 17:39 |
gnarface | i don't know crap about openrc, sorry | 17:39 |
gnarface | well i know a little, but nothing that would help with this | 17:39 |
suavedandy | Apparently, those "resolvable dependency loops" are connected to encryption. | 17:40 |
gnarface | if it were just a plain sysvinit install i'd know where to go to check what's not working for anacron | 17:41 |
gnarface | i think | 17:41 |
gnarface | for openrc first thing you need to do is figure out if it's dependent on sysvinit or not | 17:41 |
gnarface | sysvinit might be the thing actually starting up and shutting down | 17:41 |
gnarface | but there's another way to setup openrc where it's working alone | 17:42 |
suavedandy | OpenRC replaces SysV-RC, not SysVinit. | 17:42 |
gnarface | if you figure that out, it should be easier to search for documentation | 17:42 |
suavedandy | It's not an init system. Still depends on SysVinit. | 17:43 |
gnarface | well, can you tell if it's calling /etc/init.d/anacron ? | 17:43 |
suavedandy | Gimme a sec. Need to turn off LightDM. | 17:44 |
gnarface | i'm not 100% sure that would be the exact name but it would be a script in that directory | 17:45 |
gnarface | i'm using /etc/init.d/cron, here | 17:46 |
gnarface | it's Vixie Cron | 17:47 |
gnarface | when you find the script you should be able to call it by hand to get the same output | 17:49 |
ShorTie | i'd 'grep anacron /etc' to find all, might be hiding in rc.d or where not, if me | 17:50 |
suavedandy | How do I prevent a daemon from autostarting? | 17:51 |
Xenguy | It's been quite awhile actually, but I think this is one way: | 17:57 |
Xenguy | # whatis update-rc.d | 17:57 |
Xenguy | update-rc.d (8) - install and remove System-V style init script links | 17:57 |
gnarface | yea the easiest way is to use update-rc.d to manipulate the symlinks | 17:58 |
Xenguy | Not sure if there are less low-level methods currently (there used to be) | 17:58 |
gnarface | i'm not sure if openrc wouldn't have something separate | 18:00 |
onefang | sysv-conf-rc? | 18:00 |
Xenguy | onefang: That rings a bell, but I don't see it as a devuan package anymore. | 18:04 |
onefang | Er sysv-rc-conf I meant. lol | 18:05 |
Xenguy | Looks like 'rcconf' is still around | 18:06 |
ShorTie | ya, sysv-rc-conf is preaty cool, easier then update-rc.d | 18:08 |
Xenguy | Yep, sysv-rc-conf is still around too, yay. Those are the only 2 that I'm aware off, besides update-rc.d itself | 18:08 |
furrywolf | I always forget what the tools are or how to use them, and twiddle the symlinks. | 18:10 |
onefang | Though I found out recently the hard way that sysv-rc-conf doesn't update the /etc/init.d/.depend.* files, you need to run insserv for that. | 18:10 |
suavedandy | Alright. I figured this out. Just removed LightDM from the default runlevel with rc-update. | 18:17 |
gnarface | ah, that is probably the right thing to do, use the openrc tool | 18:24 |
gnarface | update-rc.d is the sysvinit tool | 18:24 |
suavedandy | gnarface: Restarting cron did absolutely nothing. | 18:51 |
suavedandy | Restarted just fine. | 18:52 |
mason | suavedandy: When I reported the bug recently where OpenRC was using the wrong flag to start-stop-daemon, it turns out that OpenRC ships their own and it's not a 100% match. I wouldn't be wholly surprised if this was related. | 18:54 |
suavedandy | ShorTie: "grep anacron /etc" complains that /etc is a directory. | 18:54 |
suavedandy | Should I install OpenRC from backports? | 18:55 |
ShorTie | grep -r anacron /etc , Sorry | 18:56 |
suavedandy | Well, the only reference for anacron I found was in crontab. | 18:59 |
ShorTie | ya, me 2, some test -x /usr/sbin/anacron | 19:00 |
suavedandy | There is no /usr/bin/anacron tho. | 19:00 |
ShorTie | sounds like it is not installed | 19:01 |
suavedandy | Yeah, it's not. | 19:02 |
ShorTie | i'd install mlocate, updatedb and locate bin/anacron | 19:02 |
ShorTie | see if sbin or bin, as mines lookin for sbin | 19:03 |
suavedandy | Good news. | 19:04 |
suavedandy | Installed anacron, one problem solved. | 19:04 |
suavedandy | The other problem left. | 19:04 |
suavedandy | AppArmor fails to stop when shutting down. | 19:05 |
suavedandy | How do I view the shutdown logs? | 19:05 |
ShorTie | i'd dp the grep thingy for AppArmor/apparmor | 19:13 |
ShorTie | grep id case sensative, without flag | 19:14 |
suavedandy | There are /etc/apparmor.d/, /etc/apparmor and /etc/init.d/apparmor. | 19:17 |
suavedandy | And yes, Aptitude shows that AppArmor is installed. | 19:18 |
suavedandy | Why would it not? It's Debian's SELinux. | 19:18 |
suavedandy | It's installed by default. | 19:19 |
ShorTie | look in /etc/init.d/apparmor for stop/start/... i'd guess | 19:20 |
ShorTie | SELinux is not a defualt thing i think | 19:21 |
suavedandy | It isn't. | 19:21 |
suavedandy | It's CentOS/Fedora's thing. | 19:21 |
ShorTie | needs install/setup or sumfin | 19:21 |
suavedandy | Installing SELinux on Debian is finnicky. | 19:22 |
suavedandy | There is "start|stop…" in /etc/init.d/apparmor, yes. | 19:23 |
suavedandy | Should I try to stop it? | 19:24 |
suavedandy | "No profiles have been unloaded." | 19:28 |
suavedandy | "Unloading profiles will leave already running processes permanently unconfined, which can lead to unexpected situations." | 19:30 |
suavedandy | That's the problem. | 19:30 |
suavedandy | AppArmor refuses to stop. | 19:30 |
ShorTie | sortta sounds like it is not setup right to me | 19:31 |
suavedandy | It is not set up at all. | 19:31 |
suavedandy | I didn't fiddle with AppArmor. | 19:32 |
ShorTie | sounds like it needs to stop stuff before it can actually stop | 19:32 |
suavedandy | Well, what do I do? | 19:33 |
ShorTie | ah, set it up maybe ?? | 19:33 |
suavedandy | How? | 19:33 |
suavedandy | Like I know how to use AppArmor. | 19:34 |
ShorTie | Sorry, got me, never used it | 19:34 |
ShorTie | Mr.Google most likely knows howto | 19:34 |
suavedandy | Okay, grepped dmesg. | 19:40 |
suavedandy | apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_load" profile="unconfined" name="/usr/sbin/haveged" pid=1935 comm="apparmor_parser" | 19:50 |
suavedandy | Same for /usr/bin/man | 19:51 |
suavedandy | chronyd too. | 19:51 |
suavedandy | msmtp | 19:52 |
suavedandy | lightdm-guest-session | 19:52 |
suavedandy | All of them have profiles set to "unconfined" for whatever reason. | 19:53 |
suavedandy | I don't get it. | 19:55 |
suavedandy | I… I don't even know what to do by this point. | 21:04 |
unixbsd | debootstrap pkgmaster is broken? | 22:02 |
unixbsd | Since this morning the debootsrap on ascii on amd64 and i386 fails. it is broken. | 22:02 |
unixbsd | I tried pkgmaster and other localcountry sever. what is going on with the main server? | 22:03 |
unixbsd | it fails now still at libhogweed4 and previously it failed at bash: couldnd download packages. is a fix possible? | 22:03 |
unixbsd | please help to get http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged healthy again. thank you very much. | 22:04 |
rrq | meanwhile you could use deb.devuan.org perhaps | 22:04 |
unixbsd | which one is the mother one, non broken�? | 22:06 |
unixbsd | Sbdy told me that pkgmaster is the main one... | 22:06 |
rrq | deb.devuan.org is the mirrors collection; all rsyncing from pkgmaster | 22:08 |
rrq | all of them are transiently broken while updating | 22:08 |
unixbsd | sounds a big general break down of the server pkg... man serious stuff | 22:09 |
rrq | I'm checking if it's something more than that | 22:09 |
unixbsd | it is like this since this morning. yestersday and days agoo, the pkgs were fine and working. | 22:12 |
rrq | I can see it's slow at serving Packages files | 22:18 |
rrq | the weekly "major update" was 8h ago; not sure what it was, but some mirrors are still getting updated. | 22:21 |
unixbsd | for file server, usually i use freebsd, it has a stable networking stack. With linux, it can be up and down with file serving. | 22:24 |
unixbsd | no no ... it is still not working | 22:28 |
unixbsd | couldnt not find sed package | 22:29 |
unixbsd | could not find coreutils | 22:29 |
unixbsd | pkgmaster is not working. missing packages, sometimes even major ones. | 22:29 |
unixbsd | maybe a way would be to give a static DVD work around like pkgmaster.static.devuan.org <-- this one would be at least stable... like the dvd iso. | 22:30 |
unixbsd | on /var/www/... of the server. unpack the dvd and it is fine, as a possible work around that would offer a stable deboostrap server at least. | 22:31 |
unixbsd | both tests now, just failed on pkgmaster :( for i386 and amd64. | 22:32 |
rrq | mmm can't find any reason "internally" on devuan's infra | 23:22 |
rrq | but there's some b/w limiter for me somewhere in between me and there | 23:23 |
rrq | equally bad with ipv4 as ipv6 | 23:29 |
rrq | EU-AUS, and EU-US both probe at about 250 kB/s for me | 23:40 |
suavedandy | Damn it. LightDM demands ConsoleKit. | 23:41 |
bbuccianti | hi people! | 23:51 |
bbuccianti | I have a problem with ceres | 23:51 |
gnarface | common | 23:52 |
bbuccianti | I installed beowulf and then migrated to ceres | 23:52 |
gnarface | so far, still common | 23:52 |
bbuccianti | but dist-upgrade seems to have removed some programs | 23:52 |
bbuccianti | for example, I use dvorak as a default keymap | 23:53 |
bbuccianti | but on the next boot, it doesn't work with dvorak | 23:53 |
gnarface | yep, common | 23:53 |
gnarface | it's part of the development process | 23:53 |
gnarface | ideally, you'd be paying attention to what it wants to remove, and just not upgrade while it wants to remove something important | 23:53 |
bbuccianti | ouch | 23:54 |
bbuccianti | what can I do? | 23:54 |
gnarface | if you're lucky and still have the old versions in your cache you can probably roll back easy | 23:54 |
bbuccianti | need to learn how | 23:54 |
bbuccianti | wait | 23:54 |
gnarface | i don't know specifics about setting up dvorak though | 23:54 |
brocashelm | i'm using ceres and reporting no problems with it. what packages in particular? | 23:54 |
bbuccianti | I don't know really I was looking up that | 23:54 |
bbuccianti | but seems like I need to have keyboard-configuration in order to being able to use dvorak on the login screen? | 23:55 |
gnarface | most likely you need that for any keyboard mapping other than default | 23:55 |
brocashelm | packages get installed/removed normally as part of dependencies, or else they get held back (default) if the latter is more likely until newer builds can match current installed | 23:56 |
gnarface | you'll also wnat locales and tzdata | 23:56 |
bbuccianti | yeah, and the when I want to install keyboard-configuration seems like liblocale-gettext-perl complains that perlapi-5.30.0 is not installable | 23:56 |
gnarface | want* | 23:56 |
gnarface | hmm, i did just do a ceres upgrade myself, and i noticed perl was held back | 23:56 |
gnarface | did you install that perl? | 23:56 |
brocashelm | i remember having an issue with python that i just had to let it go (but i copied the binary files over from a backup so i could still use youtube-dl) | 23:56 |
bbuccianti | I don't remember | 23:56 |
brocashelm | perl and perl-base are held back for me atm | 23:57 |
bbuccianti | but I don't think so | 23:57 |
gnarface | you might need to go back to the previous perl because stuff hasn't all migrated to it yet | 23:57 |
bbuccianti | ok, I need to figure it out how to do it | 23:57 |
gnarface | i've had a similar problem on sid | 23:57 |
gnarface | basically find out the previous version and it's just "apt-get install package=version" | 23:57 |
bbuccianti | there is a common or base package that install all of the default ones? | 23:58 |
gnarface | the one called perl, probably, but there's no guarantee you won't have to do more than one or even all of them individually | 23:58 |
gnarface | if you "dpkg -l |grep perl" you can see them listed with the versions | 23:59 |
bbuccianti | that runs really slow | 23:59 |
bbuccianti | :D | 23:59 |
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