mason | apt-get download to get the package(s) | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
xrogaan | huh, weird. XFCE crashes whenever I update libreoffice. | 00:39 |
xrogaan | lotsa segfaults | 00:39 |
clort | xfce had a period of much badness, i don't know if it is over xrogaan | 01:12 |
xrogaan | well, the current xfce is still the old one | 01:13 |
gnarface | are you running without swap, xrogaan? | 01:14 |
gnarface | segfaults might mean bad ram blocks, but it also might just be misconfiguration or runtime errors | 01:15 |
gnarface | first thing that comes to mind when updating libreoffice is that it's large | 01:15 |
gnarface | consider running some test that uses a similar amount of ram to see if it also segfaults | 01:15 |
xrogaan | I have some swap. But here it's definitively whenever I update libreoffice. | 01:16 |
xrogaan | Doesn't break otherwise. | 01:16 |
xrogaan | so, you mean forcefully have the system swap memory? | 01:17 |
xrogaan | It happens sometimes, due to high requirements from games. XFCE still doesn't break then. | 01:17 |
xrogaan | I suspect the .desktops being changed in bulk. | 01:18 |
gnarface | hmmm, interesting | 01:20 |
gnarface | have you tried updating it without Xorg running? | 01:21 |
xrogaan | No. | 01:22 |
xrogaan | By crashing I mean the desktop part right. It recovers automatically. | 01:23 |
xrogaan | xfce4-panel segfault, followed by xfdesktop | 01:24 |
gnarface | i see | 01:25 |
gnarface | yea, i would definitely try the upgrade again without Xorg or any graphical login prompts running | 01:25 |
gnarface | is this beowulf? | 01:25 |
gnarface | i would try the upgrade again without any GUI, and if it completes i would expect about a 5% chance of ever figuring out what went wrong but about a 60% chance of it never happening again either | 01:26 |
gnarface | if it's chimera or ceres you might just have to wait | 01:27 |
gnarface | if you mixed in packages and software from elsewhere though all bets are off | 01:27 |
xrogaan | I mean, if no graphical thing is running, there won't be any xfce crash. | 01:28 |
xrogaan | The upgrade does complete (never said it weren't ;)) | 01:29 |
xrogaan | all my softwares runs fine, it's just xfdesktop biting the dust. Which is somewhat weird. | 01:29 |
xrogaan | I launch the upgrade, switch to firefox to watch a video. Then the desktop goes away and I momentarily wonder why. | 01:30 |
gnarface | i assumed this was a repeating incident because you had to keep retrying the same upgrade | 01:33 |
xrogaan | xfce4-session doesn't go away. So it detects xfdesktop dying and restart it. | 01:33 |
gnarface | that would be the expected behavior | 01:33 |
xrogaan | Yeah, every time I upgrade libreoffice (which is on the backport channel) | 01:33 |
gnarface | oh hmmm, i wonder if some other stuff from backports snuck in that's causing problems - or alternately, if there's some stuff in backports that you are missing that you need for stability with the other stuff? either is likely | 01:34 |
xrogaan | Heh, it's an old behavior. | 01:37 |
gnarface | yea but i'm just trying to help you narrow it down because i would have expected to see this problem here if it's not self-inflicted or very obscure | 01:39 |
rwp | systemdlete, I think the command you want: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confnew -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confmiss dbus | 02:59 |
rwp | systemdlete, Oops. I mean: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confnew -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confmiss install --reinstall dbus | 03:00 |
rwp | systemdlete, Not that I know about your specific dbus problem. But that's how I often reinstall packages in general. | 03:00 |
rwp | Then afterward (or really at any time) "find /etc -name '*.dpkg-*' -ls" in order to find conffiles that have not been merged. New or Old. Whichever. | 03:01 |
rwp | And then I merge or otherwise cleanup the results and remove those files so that things are clean for the next time. | 03:01 |
rwp | If the installation installed the new conffile then the previous is saved as a .dpkg-old name. | 03:02 |
rwp | If the installation kept the existing file (without --confnew) then the new conffile is saved as a .dpgk-new name. | 03:02 |
rwp | And some specific packages (bind9 I am looking at you) explicitly produce a .dpkg-dist name. | 03:02 |
rwp | I myself try really hard not to gratuitously modify /etc conffiles and always use a local name in a .d directory when that is available. To avoid ever needing to merge. | 03:04 |
clort | hehe | 03:05 |
mh4debuan | Hello! | 04:08 |
gnarface | hello, mh4debuan. if you have questions just ask them. don't wait for permission. | 04:10 |
mh4debuan | In ASCII I had no pulseaudio problems | 04:10 |
mh4debuan | In BeoWulf beta I had to start manually starting pulseaudio... I'm trying some internet searches, cleared user home config and then reinstalling atm | 04:11 |
Xenguy | ^^ Looks like the 'Release Notes' issue with PA | 04:11 |
Xenguy | mh4debuan: You need to comment out a line in a config file (documented in the Beowulf Release Notes) | 04:12 |
mh4debuan | Sorry I don't read much cause of v2k | 04:13 |
gnarface | yea, check the release notes, simple fix, a minor indignity of sharing packages with a hostile upstream | 04:13 |
Xenguy | I'm starting to think, as plasma41 mentioned, that we should fork that file, and maybe just make it commented out by default | 04:13 |
Xenguy | It aligns with Devuan's mission, if it's not too arduous to do | 04:14 |
Xenguy | s/do/maintain/g | 04:14 |
mh4debuan | Awesome, once that is done, I'm really hoping to get OBS-Studio working, which is an issue with legality of mbed TLS, and Devuan Repo doesn't have the newer OBS Studio | 04:14 |
plasma41 | Xenguy: I think we should delete that file entirely, not just comment it out. | 04:15 |
Xenguy | mh4debuan: You'll have audio in any case, a good start | 04:15 |
Xenguy | plasma41: Fair point, will leave that to the architects myself, dunno if that is feasible or not | 04:16 |
n4dir | mh4debuan: i am using librazik with devuan , and it has version 24.03. I haven't got it installed, so don't know if problems might arise | 04:16 |
n4dir | librazik-repos | 04:16 |
mh4debuan | What do yall think of Trump & SolarWinds? | 04:17 |
n4dir | nothing. | 04:17 |
plasma41 | The only thing that file accomplishes is the very thing we don't want. That's its sole purpose. | 04:17 |
Xenguy | /join #devuan-offtopic | 04:17 |
Xenguy | mh4debuan: ^^ | 04:17 |
onefang | I think Trump & SolarWinds isn't a topic for a Devuan support channel. That's why we have #devuan-offtopic. | 04:18 |
Xenguy | plasma41: Well if nuking it works, I personally don't see why not, but wiser minds than mine will prevail I expect | 04:18 |
Xenguy | .oO( Very well, as you wish ) | 04:22 |
golinux | Please dom | 04:26 |
golinux | 't make forking and maintaining someone else's problem. | 04:27 |
Xenguy | What's the best approach golinux ? | 04:27 |
golinux | Lotsa folks have ideas but few actually do. It's annoying. | 04:27 |
golinux | Lean how to maintain packages if it's your idea | 04:28 |
golinux | Learn | 04:28 |
* Xenguy defers to plasma41 in this case... | 04:29 | |
golinux | That's a general comment not pointed at you personally. | 04:29 |
golinux | I do also. | 04:29 |
Xenguy | It's the FOSS way, fair point | 04:29 |
onefang | Plasma41 is already working on that I think. | 04:29 |
Xenguy | Even better | 04:30 |
onefang | Or someone is. lol | 04:30 |
Xenguy | someone: Give me a shout if you need help = ) | 04:31 |
mh4debuan | Thanks for help with PulseAudio | 04:34 |
Xenguy | Yay | 04:34 |
rrq | onefang: I think there's an apt-panopticon instance needing some love... | 05:26 |
onefang | I know, but I'm an apt-panopticon developer needing more icecubes... | 05:27 |
* onefang kicks it anyway. | 05:27 | |
* onefang clears out a few GB of old historical data while I'm there. | 05:38 | |
mh4debuan | LOL man - apt-panopticon with a sense of Patriotism / aka loving Neighbors like falun Gong NTD News | 06:56 |
mh4debuan | God bless Ian Murdock's soul | 06:57 |
linearain | how do i download devuan source code? | 17:01 |
Joril | linearain: I think on the git store: https://git.devuan.org | 17:02 |
Joril | *from | 17:05 |
IanJ | Do you rely entirely on upstream packges from debian or do you have your own packages too? | 18:13 |
mason | IanJ: Both. | 18:15 |
IanJ | I just saw a request for inclusion of libressl dating back to 2014 which hasn't yet made it. | 18:16 |
IanJ | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754513 | 18:16 |
mason | Well. The latter, re-parsing. | 18:16 |
mason | IanJ: Having more folks comfortable with Debian packaging would be useful. We need more people to do the work. | 18:16 |
IanJ | Happy to do it if it will be inluded. | 18:17 |
IanJ | I'm not familiar with packaging but I can certainly give it a go. | 18:17 |
mason | IanJ: https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian | 18:21 |
IanJ | I was reading the docs for creating packages where it said to check Prospective packages and found it there. | 18:21 |
IanJ | Would the package be for debian or devuan though, reading that thread debian didn't seem to be very interested. | 18:22 |
mason | IanJ: Both ideally, Devuan if Debian doesn't take an interest. | 18:22 |
IanJ | Ok | 18:22 |
IanJ | I'm surprised after heartbleed noone insisted on it. | 18:23 |
fsmithred | IanJ, https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers/PackagingGuide.md | 18:28 |
IanJ | Thanks | 18:29 |
Xenguy | Looks like a little light reading :^) | 18:43 |
IanJ | Yeah :/ | 18:46 |
Xenguy | Not meant as a criticism, but like most man pages, including more 'examples' might make it more digestible to newbies | 18:48 |
IanJ | Seems to point me to git clone unstable branch and install a bunch of packages to set up a development environment. | 18:54 |
fsmithred | That is correct. If the source is not already debianized, those instructions might not be enough. | 19:01 |
IanJ | "clone a copy of the relavent repository from git.devuan.org/devuan" | 19:03 |
IanJ | I guess I want Devuan only. | 19:04 |
IanJ | as a package category | 19:04 |
IanJ | I'm not really sure on the relevant repository. | 19:05 |
IanJ | personally I'm using Beowulf but the docs seem to suggest to do it for unstable. | 19:05 |
fsmithred | O | 19:06 |
fsmithred | I'm not sure what that means | 19:06 |
fsmithred | usually when we fork a package, we clone it from salsa.debian.org | 19:06 |
fsmithred | but what you want is not in debian or devuan | 19:06 |
IanJ | Unfortunately this doesn't exist in debian. | 19:06 |
IanJ | yeah :/ | 19:07 |
fsmithred | is the source on a git somewhere? | 19:07 |
fsmithred | https://www.libressl.org/ looks like there are a few options for source code | 19:09 |
IanJ | I downloaded it as a tarball but https://github.com/libressl-portable/ | 19:10 |
mason | IanJ: https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian really does have the answers you want | 19:29 |
mason | I wouldn't steer you wrong. | 19:30 |
IanJ | Thanks, I'm reading that now. | 19:32 |
IanJ | are we using underscores or dashes between package name and version now? | 19:34 |
n4dir | underscore it seems | 19:35 |
n4dir | ls /var/cache/apt/archives seems to show my memory is right | 19:36 |
IanJ | ok thanks | 19:36 |
IanJ | I've seen conflicting info, in the man page for dh_make it suggests - | 19:36 |
mason | When in doubt, look to precedent. | 19:37 |
IanJ | I now have a debianized libressl_3.3.1orig.tar.xz | 19:47 |
IanJ | libressl_3.3.1.orig.tar.xz | 19:47 |
mason | IanJ: The other bit is to get on the relevant mailing lists for libressl as you'll want to be right on top of security issues with a package that critical. It might also make sense to solicit others to work on it as a team so there's no SPOF. | 19:56 |
mason | IanJ: Eventually we'd like to be a part of the security community, and that'll let us have easier access to information about necessary corrections. | 20:00 |
IanJ | Does this look right: https://82.46.16.105/V/Mv34uW | 20:03 |
IanJ | I guess I should put something useful in the description. | 20:04 |
IanJ | In the unstable version of devuan would you want the latest development release or latest stable release? | 20:24 |
mason | IanJ: Probably both. | 20:25 |
mason | IanJ: With names indicating which is which. | 20:26 |
IanJ | ok, is there a specific format for that to follow? | 20:26 |
mason | IanJ: Hrm, not sure where it exists in policy. Let me look. | 20:34 |
mason | IanJ: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_debian_package_file_names | 20:35 |
mason | and https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-version | 20:37 |
rwp | Different maintainers have different opinions on which version should be in unstable. | 20:51 |
rwp | If you like Stable releases then Unstable is the alpha-beta release for the next Stable release. | 20:51 |
rwp | In which case one should package the upstream Stable release into Unstable, let it flow through the suites, and end up in Stable. | 20:52 |
rwp | If you hate Stable releases and like Rolling releases then Unstable is the daily bleeding edge build suite. | 20:52 |
rwp | In which case one should package the upstream Unstable release into Unstable, and update it often and block it from ever going into Stable. | 20:53 |
rwp | And there are endless debates each way about which strategy is the best one. | 20:54 |
rwp | And also there is the issue of issuing security patches. One should consider that process too. | 20:55 |
fsmithred | the progression from unstable to testing to stable is automatic. And nothing migrates out of any of those except when it gets replaced/updated | 20:55 |
rwp | Right! So right now in Debian the bash maintainer is packaging bleeding edge releases. We just went through 5.1rc1, rc2, rc3, and so forth, breaking us differently with each release. | 20:56 |
fsmithred | any packages that are new to devuan and not from debian go into experimental | 20:56 |
rwp | The idea being that people running Unstable are the ones who have signed up to test those releases. | 20:56 |
fsmithred | yeah, I'm glad somebody else does that. | 20:57 |
rwp | You are welcome! :-/ | 20:57 |
rwp | The rc1 and rc2 broke me but rc3 seems acceptable with some less critical bugs. | 20:57 |
fsmithred | I do have chimaera on a laptop, and it seems fine. | 20:57 |
rwp | Chet is of the belief that he works hard on a new set of features, and therefore wants to release them now, and will deal with the bugs newly introduced later. | 20:58 |
fsmithred | that seems to go with the common advice - release early, release often | 20:58 |
rwp | I would prefer to see the release candidates distributed so that people can test it, but then deal with the bug reports of newly introduced bugs before making it an actual release. | 20:59 |
fsmithred | it keeps the testers from getting bored | 20:59 |
fsmithred | yeah, it's nice if you can test before it's in the repo | 20:59 |
fsmithred | we should be in OT for this | 20:59 |
rwp | This is discussion but it does deal with Devuan Stable in a main way... | 21:00 |
fsmithred | yeah, but this is the support channel | 21:00 |
rwp | Ok. :-) | 21:00 |
n4dir | "the only thing you can say for sure about a package in unstable that it worked on the machine of the maintainer" Or such | 21:01 |
systemdlete | rwp: LOOOOOVE that Perl::Module=Syntax !!! | 22:34 |
systemdlete | Nothing clumsy going on there! Hehehheheh | 22:34 |
fsmithred | have you figured out how to translate that to debian package names? | 22:35 |
rwp | systemdlete, Yet I think it is all coded in C++ these days. Nothing I have any doing regarding it. I am just a user of it. | 22:38 |
rwp | To be clear even though I wrote thousands of lines of C++ back in the day that was the old C++. I would never advocate writing in the new C++ today. | 22:38 |
systemdlete | fsmithred? My comment was in response to the syntax rwp gave ME. I was merely commenting on it. I know that X::Y will be something like perl-x-y in package names. | 22:48 |
systemdlete | (I was being a bit snarky there, sorry all...) | 22:48 |
fsmithred | yeah, I missed the beginning of that conversation | 22:48 |
fsmithred | realized that kinda late | 22:49 |
systemdlete | np. I was just giving rwp a little trouble, that's all. rwp has been very helpful to me. | 22:50 |
systemdlete | rwp: I agree. I prefer the java language syntax because I think it is a bit cleaner and clearer. | 22:51 |
rwp | fsmithred, The beginning of that conversation was just past 30KB ago and has just now rolled off my scrollback horizon of 30KB autotruncation. | 22:53 |
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