libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-12-30

unixbsdit will very likely work. I debootstrap bullseye on the pendrive on raspios, I modify then fstab and I will likely have a rpi3b print server.00:07
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unixbsdok, it works. I have now a raspberry pi print server, using the printer-driver-brlaser. It is a pure debian, if you need the files, cmdline, fstab, ... and so on to get your print server. please let me know.01:08
plasma41unixbsd: I do my printing on a 1993 HP LaserJet 4 with JetDirect add-on card. I print by running `lpr <some-postscript-file.ps` which just opens a raw TCP socket to the printer on port 9100, transmits the postscript file, and closes the connection.02:08
plasma41unixbsd: Modern printing by comparison is a mountain of protocols a mile high.02:09
plasma41I like it sweet and simple.02:10
fsmithred I have the same printer, a year newer.02:10
fsmithredHP4L02:10
plasma41It's a workhorse, isn't it?02:11
fsmithredyeah, worst thing about it is finding parallel ports02:11
plasma41fsmithred: That's why I'm glad I have the JetDirect add-on card. Automatic printserver.02:16
plasma41fsmithred: For better or worse, it can be configured via telnet. :P02:16
fsmithredyikes02:17
fsmithredwell, so can just about every router02:17
rwpMy router is running Beowulf and does not have telnetd install. :-)02:40
Criggieplasma41: copycat - mines a LJ 4 too, but has a parallel port jetdirect :)03:02
CriggieI got 2 Mbytes of ram too, and a page count of about 0.12 million.03:02
CriggieAnd no windows box newer than XP can print to it cos of driver support.03:03
plasma4110 Mbytes in mine. I was able to find one 8 Mbyte SIMM in my SIMM collection (yes, I have one of those) that was the right type (FPM Parity, if memory serves) to be compatible with the printer.03:06
plasma41heh, if "memory" serves03:08
XenguyThe only printer I ever had was a Brother, and CUPS worked just fine for printing on that machine03:09
plasma41Xenguy: I specifically taught myself how to manually configure lprng, so I could avoid having to install CUPS. CUPS is a behemoth.03:11
XenguyProbably by comparison, sure03:12
Xenguylpr reminds me of actual unix, and it works, no question03:12
plasma41amen03:12
XenguyFortunately CUPS would mostly 'just work' for my use cases, which were simple enough03:13
Criggiehehehe I still have 4x1 Mbyte SIPPs in my box of ram03:13
XenguyShould be enough, but heading OT  8 -D03:13
unixbsdHello, concerning the command SU of chimaera, how to configure Devuan to keep a normal  "su" command, i.e. without having the requirement of minus symbol? (the Linux "su -" shall be "su"). In Unix/BSD we will continue to use "su".13:04
n4diredit /etc/default/su (that is: create that file) and insert13:05
n4dirALWAYS_SET_PATH yes13:05
fsmithredsame as beowulf13:05
n4dirmocp only gives sound if starting jack. Without it, alsa only, it complaints bout not sound server found.13:08
fsmithredin beowulf?13:08
n4dirtalk easy to the easy minded. I use stable. Whatever that is13:08
fsmithredstable13:09
fsmithredwhy do I have mdadm pinned in ceres?13:09
fsmithredto an older version13:09
n4dirjust saying: i gave up on that for debian too. For me it is stable, testing and unstable.13:09
fsmithredexcept for ceres, which is sid and is therefore always ceres, we're going in alphabetical order13:10
n4dirah, always ceres. That is something i can work with13:10
fsmithredjessie was jessie. Then ascii, beowulf, chimaera, daedelus, e???13:10
n4dirlemme quickly upgrade13:10
fsmithredto what?13:10
fsmithredyou want ceres?13:11
n4dirto always be able to say ceres :-)13:11
fsmithredlol13:11
n4dirat my age i need to take it easy with my ressources of brain13:11
n4dirno kidding, the other names confuse me13:11
n4dirAnyway, you not using mocp by any chance?13:12
n4dirIt bugs me a very little to have to start jack to use mocp13:12
fsmithredI use it without jack13:13
n4diri always did too. No clue why it complaints now. Does on the new installation too13:13
n4diralsa is always running?13:14
fsmithredyes13:14
fsmithreddid you edit a config file13:15
n4dirshit knows. ps ax | grep alsa ; gives nothing. /etc/init.d/{only-alsa-utils}13:15
gnarfacewell, alsa is a kernel component, so it's always available but it's inappropriate to say it's "running" as it's not a userspace process, it's essentially a collection of drivers13:15
n4dirnone of that bothers me, but mocp tries jack, then alsa, then oss, then fails to start13:15
fsmithredalias it to start with -R JACK?13:16
n4dirmocp -R JACK?13:16
gnarface(so you wouldn't expect it to show up in the output of ps)13:16
fsmithredtry mocp -R ALSA13:16
n4dir"cannot connect"13:16
fsmithredsomething else is wrong13:17
gnarfacecommonly permissions, paths, or plugs13:17
n4dirhttp://paste.debian.net/1178984/13:18
n4dirdefault permissions, default path, default plugs13:18
fsmithredgoober thinks I want to know about Microsoft Online Customer Protocol13:18
n4dirmv .moc moc_backup; same result13:19
fsmithredsome librazik thing interfering?13:21
n4dirwouldn't know how13:22
n4diron the PC pretty much the only thing installed is cadence13:22
n4dirand that is not running while using moc. If it is running, then moc works13:23
fsmithredisn't there some command or package with a name like apt-changelog?13:23
fsmithredI can't find it. I think I want to use it.13:24
unixbsdThank you for su. this is great help. this is such a marvellous idea to change all the time everything in debian - are the debian developers bored or something...13:25
n4dirapt-listchanges?13:25
fsmithredyeah, that's the command. Thanks.13:26
onefangI was just about to say that.  I use it.13:27
fsmithredoh, have to run it on a .deb file13:27
n4dirdid apt-cache search, no avail, then thought about apt- then hit tab. Smart me, huh?13:27
onefang"When configured as an APT plugin it will do this automatically during upgrades."13:27
fsmithredI already went to packages.debian.org to find the changelog, I read it, and I still don't know why I pinned mdadm to the older version.13:27
n4diri wouldn't worry but unpin.13:28
n4dirless pin, less pain13:29
fsmithredyeah, I guess I'll do that and see what happens. I have 371 packages to upgrade13:29
fsmithred37213:30
n4dirSo: log out, log in as "tester" user, mocp works perfectly fine. Once in TTY, checking: usual user can't use mocp from TTY either13:32
n4dirwhat the heck13:32
fsmithredweird13:33
fsmithredremoving .moc should have fixed it13:33
fsmithredor is there something else hidden?13:34
n4dirif it ain't ~/.moc standing in my way, what else might it be?13:34
fsmithredcheck ~/.bash_aliases13:34
fsmithredcheck ~/.config13:34
fsmithredmaybe ~/.local13:34
n4diraliases doesn't exist. i don't do aliases.13:34
n4dirfind . -iname '*moc*' only gives .moc13:35
n4dirdid "rm -r .local"13:36
n4dirand i see nothing unusual in .config http://paste.debian.net/1179011/13:39
n4dirMost easy is probably to just use moc with jack. Oh my.13:40
fsmithredah, there was a bug in the next version, and the version after that is now available.13:43
n4dircould you use moc, then start jack, then stop jack, then use moc again?13:43
n4dirbut then: pretty sure i tried it right after booting already13:44
fsmithreddo I have to tell it to use jack after starting jack, or is it automatic?13:45
n4dirfor me it is automatic, it seems. It tries 3 sound servers and uses the one which works firts13:47
n4dirfirst13:47
n4dirmight relate to cadence though, as it has a alsa-jack bridge13:47
fsmithredI can't get sound with jack13:48
n4dirha ha. Lets connect our hardware. You get jack with moc, i get alsa. win-win13:48
fsmithredaudacious works with jack13:49
n4diri wouldn't care much if jack wasn't ressource intensive. I want to stop it when not needed13:49
n4diror not start it, when not needed.13:49
fsmithredcheck to see if /etc/popt exists13:53
fsmithredor ~/.popt13:53
n4dirno, doesn't. both13:53
n4dirit doesn't make any sense. All culprits are out of the way.13:54
n4dirno autostart anything. ps no cadence no jack no nothing. mv .moc. so on13:54
fsmithredstop jack and moc uses alsa again13:55
n4dirroot works fine, test user works fine13:55
n4diryeah, i thought so. And that is what it was here in the not long gone past13:56
n4dirin a fury i even did rm -r /tmp/*13:56
n4dirwell, let me mv .config config_backup too13:56
n4dirsame13:57
fsmithredcheck for your username in any files under /etc/security/13:58
fsmithredmaybe you set some realtime stuff for your user that's interfering?13:58
fsmithredwild guess13:59
n4dirnothing13:59
fsmithredand jack only starts manually?13:59
n4diryes13:59
fsmithrednot upon login?13:59
fsmithredok13:59
n4dirno13:59
fsmithreddeluser?13:59
n4dirwell: there must be something somewhere13:59
fsmithredmove your home first14:00
n4dirdelete the user? Nah, i can live with having to run jack14:00
fsmithredok14:00
n4dirThis bugs me, but really is a minor issue, as jack runs pretty often anyway (without much need though)14:00
fsmithredI find it annoying that moc won't use jack14:00
n4dirmainly so i don't have to configure stuff like vlc back and forth14:00
n4diras said: i really like cadence. It makes things easy (in this case starting the alsa bridge)14:01
n4dirbut then i don't even know if it uses jack or alsa. All i know that if jack is running, moc gives sound14:01
n4dirand as soon i got sound, i stop bothering to understand why i have it14:02
n4dirwould love to understand it, but it is a bit too complex for me14:03
fsmithredcadence wants pulseaudio :(14:04
n4dirIt has a pulse bridge too14:05
n4dirprobably for that14:05
n4diri need relief from this brain torture. later. thanks for help14:07
fsmithredI'm getting a delay on shutdown in ceres. How do I find out what's happening in the 30-second gap between these to syslog entries?16:06
fsmithredDec 30 14:45:25 r10lvm dbus-daemon[1426]: [system] Activating service name='org.freedesktop.login1' requested by '16:06
fsmithred:1.1' (uid=0 pid=1474 comm="/usr/sbin/lightdm ") (using servicehelper)16:06
fsmithredDec 30 14:45:55 r10lvm smartd[1468]: smartd received signal 15: Terminated16:06
fsmithredI suspect it may be the same cryptsetup/lvm delay that's in beowulf and ascii. I don't think the patch for that works anymore.16:07
onefangdbus is late, wait a little longer, there will be three of them arrive at once.  B-)16:17
MinceR:>16:19
MinceRor pray to G-Bus16:19
fsmithred I might have to start praying to openbox and say good-bye to xfce16:27
debdogmy experience with xfce is anything but satisfying. it certainly is not advisable for linux newbies.16:34
seabassHello16:37
seabassdebdog, in my opinion, the configuration of xfce used by default in Xubuntu is not bad for beginners.16:37
debdogxubuwhat?16:38
fsmithredon subsequent shutdown, I don't get the dbus message, and the delay happens between havegd and smartd shutting down16:40
fsmithredI don't think it's either of those16:40
debdogI think it was when ASCII was still stable and I set up an old Laptop for a friend. and xfce had that weird bug where the user was not able to select a custom desktop background. for a stable release this is not a showpiece.16:41
fsmithredI don't recall ever not being able to change my desktop background in xfce16:44
fsmithredI know there were some changes in the settings ui that made it confusing, but I don't remember if that started in ascii or beowulf16:45
debdogchanging the background was not an issue. but loading a custom pic did not work16:46
fsmithredthat's what I always do16:46
nemodebdog: yeah, IMO XFCE lacks polish, although situation continues to improve16:47
nemodebdog: there's no strong reason to use it over MATE personally.  MATE seems to be more complete/consistent/polished, and uses same amount of memory, apparently.16:47
nemobut to each their own!16:48
seabassdebdog, certainly, glitches are not beginner-friendly in any way. However, I believe that the *design* of xfce isn't bad at all16:48
debdogthis describes the issue I've had: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=11965 "I cannot select any entries; they are all grayed out."16:49
seabassFor the record, I also like LXDE and MATE so maybe I simply lack strong opinions on this topic :)16:49
seabassi16:49
fsmithredyeah, I think that post is related to the change I remember. You could no longer select images from the file-chooser. You could only select directories.16:50
seabassI have a cron job for a script I wrote; it changes the background periodically using feh --bg-fill.16:51
seabassGUIs are very hard to get right and pretty difficult to debug, so I tend to use terminal/command-line programs as much as possible, but I really appreciate that there are so many options for DEs in general.16:53
debdogok, just to clarify. I am talking about devuan and xfce as the default. so I installed it on said laptop and then wasn't able to halt or reboot from within xfce. I've had to install/remove, can't remember exactly, some logind or similar packages for it to work. that's not a satisfying end-user experience.16:54
debdogand if a linux newbie is not able to even easily select a custom background, why would they think linux based OSes are much userfriendly then other proprietary OSes16:55
seabassAgreed, that's pretty awkward. However, my experience with Gentoo leads me to believe that it is logind which causes most difficulties!16:56
seabassI believe that MATE has less code that xfce, so it should be easier to debug. Not only do you get that benefit therefore but also simple interfaces are usually easier for beginners anyway. I'll have to spend more time with MATE and try to come to a conclusion with that!16:57
n4diraudacious: ALSA error: snd_pcm_open failed: No such file or directory.18:03
DashiePieMate's been pretty smooth for me19:02
fsmithredn4dir, get any output with 'lsmod | grep snd' ?19:22
n4dirshitloads19:23
n4dirthere sure is a config in my home with is borked. I did mv /home/user /home/user_backup; mkdir /home/user; chwon -R user: user19:24
n4dirand had sound with mocp.19:24
n4dirThen i installed audacious, to check if another app can do alsa, and ran in said problem19:24
n4diri hoped a different error massage might shed some light19:24
n4dirI guess i could mv /home/user like above, then cp one file at a time. Assuming i will ever be in the mood.19:25
n4dirwhat is ~/.asoundrc ?19:28
n4dirright. It is the culprit !19:30
n4dirTa-Da19:30
debdoghttps://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Asoundrc19:37
n4dirah. Well: thanks. No clue why i have it. Or rather: had.19:39
leafwizHey, I just changed the default python to python3 on my system. This broke wicd and wicd-gtk. Going into the scripts i see that it just calls python, and not python220:33
leafwizIs this something I should file a bug report on?20:33
hagbard_Seems like a bug report to debian for wicd would be justified.20:52
fsmithredwicd has been dropped after buster21:01
hagbard_It's in unstable.21:03
fsmithredin ceres, not in sid21:03
fsmithreddoes that one work?21:03
hagbard_leafwiz: ^21:05
fsmithredthe one in ceres is the beowulf version (devuanized)21:05
hagbard_If not, wpa_gui would be a working alternative.21:06
fsmithredoh, maybe. I'm using network-manager in chimaera21:06
hagbard_I use a conf file for wpa_supplicant.21:07
hagbard_Does network-manager go along nicely with preconfigured /etc/network/interfaces and wpa_supplicant.conf?21:10
fsmithredhell, no21:11
fsmithredwell, not sure about wpa_supplicant.conf21:11
hagbard_bummer21:11
fsmithredhagbard_, you can set a static ip address in network-manager, but it does not use the interfaces file.21:27
fsmithredand will probably conflict with it21:27
n4dirs/probably//21:28
fsmithredyou've had recent experience with that?21:28
fsmithredThat's the issue that sent me to the debian forum in 200821:29
n4dirnah, hearsay. It is a common thing when troubleshooting21:29
n4dirperhaps was. not is. Been a while such problems were discussed somewhere i was21:29
n4dirbut then it was the first problem to get out of the way21:30
leafwizfsmithred, I am using beowulf23:36
leafwizI just find it a bit strange that it is set to python and not to python2 , so I'm wondering if there is something I'm not seeing23:38
fsmithredI think what you're seeing is that wicd needs to be updated to use python323:41
fsmithredwhich is why it was dropped23:41
numzobis anyone updating wicd?23:41
fsmithrednot sure23:42
numzobslackware recently dropped it so I'd assumed not23:42
fsmithredthe person who was maintaining the devuanized version is no longer on the project23:43
numzobah, understood23:44
fsmithredand it was probably forked for some systemd dependency23:44
fsmithredleafwiz, there might be a way to start it with a wrapper script or edit the init script so that it will use python223:51
fsmithredor do that with whatever needs python3 and set it back the way it was23:53

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