libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2021-02-20

masonIf dagal comes back, someone should note that it's not necessary - Devuan has beowulf-backports that'll work just fine if he wants ZFS via DKMS.00:10
onefangnumzob: "mixing debian and devuan packages?  that's a thing?  does it work?"  Devuan is mostly Debian packages, so yes that's a thing, and it works.  As mason pointed out, you don't even have to do anything, that's just the way it is.00:14
fsmithredand it works much better if you pull everything through our filter (devuan repo)00:24
fsmithredunfiltered debian might not taste good00:25
Xenguy> masons/install/&ed/00:50
Xenguy^^ TIL why '&' always insists on being escaped in the target string of search/replace operations00:50
masonAh! Yes. :)00:51
XenguyUnless you are using it the way you did above.  That's coooooooooooool : -)00:51
masonI really like it. Unix has so much cool stuff in it...00:51
XenguyWhen I can still keep learning new tricks years (decades?) later, you know it's awesome00:52
masonAgreed.00:54
Xenguy"You are an endless maze of twisty passages..."00:55
masonI've decided recently that a great source of learning Unix things is to watch what rrq does.00:55
numzob:)00:55
XenguyI cannot disagree, and really, when learning anything really well, emulating the experts is good policy00:56
Xenguyfsmithred: Way up-buffer you were mentioning aptitude's 'why' command, and I thought that was so cool that I just installed aptitude, which cost me a few seconds of time and 15 Mb of diskspace, *just* for that 1 command : -)01:00
XenguyAlso read a very well written/explained article today on 'apt' syntax, and am going to start using it instead of apt-get and apt-cache for awhile, just for a test drive.01:02
numzobturtles all the way down01:02
Xenguynumzob: familiar with the phrase, but how does it apply here?01:06
numzobwhen i first started with debian, i used the gui front end for package management, i forget what it was called.  then eventually I moved to aptitude, the ncurse one...01:07
XenguyAha, gotcha...01:08
numzobthen I moved to apt-get and apt cache, but i know there is dpkg and apt and it's still a bit confusing01:08
Xenguydselect I think01:08
onefangPressure is on you now rrq, you are a good example that others watch.  B-)01:08
numzobso i wonder, even now, what is the real package manager under everything01:08
XenguyThat's the one I first started with01:09
masonnumzob: dselect?01:09
masondselect, Xenguy beat me to it01:09
masonI used to use that.01:09
numzobi didn't know that01:09
XenguyActually took me a minute to remember its name; it's been awhile01:09
fsmithreddpkg01:09
fsmithredI do remember dselect01:10
XenguyPeople always complained about that tool, but I thought it worked fine01:10
fsmithredthat was my first exposure to installing debian after coming from suse and redhat01:12
fsmithredanyway: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=51101:12
masonbbiab, dinner01:12
fsmithredsome nifty aptitude commands in that thread01:12
XenguyInteresting...01:13
XenguyI do recall deciding that aptitude and I were not going to be best friends when I saw the weird search syntax.  Ghastly 8 -D01:14
fsmithredyeah, that's why I posted it - so I could find it easily01:15
XenguyThey say the syntax was inspired by mutt, which I used and loved, except for that aspect of it01:16
gabriel_is there a package to download the virtio windows drivers image?02:09
Xenguyrodper45: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/  <-- good site to search for, er, package info02:29
dagalshort update on my experiment installing Devuan's root on zfs: i got to install it all in zfs, but managed to mess up grub configuration because i'm a noob, so it won't boot yet02:49
dagal95% sure it's fixable, but will probably do it another day, kind of tired now02:50
gnarfacedagal: while you were gone someone mentioned you should just use the packages in beowulf-backports02:52
masondagal: 18:10 < mason> If dagal comes back, someone should note that it's not necessary - Devuan has beowulf-backports that'll work just fine if he wants ZFS via DKMS.02:53
dagali couldn't find zfs there, only the fuse version02:53
masondagal: As for GRUB, it can presumably read different sorts of ZFS, but I let my initramfs handle that, and park the initramfs either in my ESP (UEFI) or an MD-RAID1 /boot02:53
masondagal: https://bpa.st/RCKQ02:55
dagaloh wow02:55
dagali could've sworn i've added the repo and searched02:55
masondagal: Did you use -t to turn it on for the search?02:56
dagalno02:56
dagalis it deprioritized by default?02:56
masonAnd did you 'apt update' after adding it to your source.list?02:56
masonyes, as it should be02:56
dagalpretty sure i did02:56
masongiven what it is02:57
dagallemme check the log02:57
masonFWIW, I think I'm going back to custom kernels here.02:57
dagalyep, did update, but didn't search with -t02:58
masondagal: You probably want to keep it off by default. Safer.02:58
masonYou don't want random backports things creeping in unnoticed.02:58
dagalmaybe after installing I'll remove it02:59
dagalbut then again, VMs are for breaking :-)02:59
masondagal: Nah, keep it around for updates, but don't enable it explicitly.02:59
masonFWIW, I tend not to use ZFS inside VMs. I use zvols as backing store for VMs, and I snapshot the zvols.03:02
dagaloh i'm aware it's not very beneficial, it's just for playing around03:04
masonPerfectly valid then.03:11
masonIf you have questions, I'm the local zealot. Also, there's #zfsonlinux that's very friendly.03:11
masondagal: ^ sorry, lagged and then replied without a highlight03:11
dagalthanks a lot!03:13
e3d3'apt upgrade' gives me the next error: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-image-amd64:08:14
e3d3 linux-image-amd64 depends on linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64; however:08:14
e3d3  Package linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64 is not configured yet.08:14
e3d3How should I handle this ?08:15
e3d3I'll ask later again.08:38
tuxd3vhello to install emacs we have 2 packages in beowulf11:19
tuxd3vemacs21 and emacs11:19
tuxd3vwhat is the version we should choose?11:19
Jorilmmh it looks like emacs21 "is a transitional package to ensure that systems with emacs21 installed automatically upgrade to the new unversioned emacs-gtk package"11:49
tuxd3vJoril, thanks17:39
tuxd3vI just installed emacs package :)17:39
tuxd3vit also installed emacs-gtk17:39
tuxd3vMy Idea.. I want to do online debigging on microcontrollers and I want a small ide like tool17:40
tuxd3vdebugging17:40
tuxd3vI was able to do online debug in NetBeans IDE 8.2, but it has a poor interface17:41
tuxd3vthen I tried QTCreator, which seems to come with a gdbserver, I was following this tutorial:17:42
tuxd3vhttps://www.bartslinger.com/cx-10-quadcopter/debugging-stm32-from-qtcreator/17:42
tuxd3vbut I believe its in its infancy and I can't really create a project without being QT creator based in some way17:43
sunshavituxd3v is an emacser?18:04
tuxd3vno but I am trying to have a minimal development environment that permits me to do online debug of ARM cortex-m3 :)18:05
tuxd3vemacs has some nice things, its here to test ;)18:05
sunshavicongrats. Perhaps You would stick18:05
tuxd3v:)18:07
tuxd3vyou are a emacser?18:08
sunshaviYes. Sir18:08
tuxd3vit has plenty of features indeed :)18:08
tuxd3vnice!18:08
sunshaviemacs is not an editor. It happens to behave like one18:08
tuxd3vI am trying to get online debugging via openoc18:09
tuxd3vI can do it in the terminal with gdb also18:10
sunshavionline debugging? it is done with screen i think18:10
tuxd3vbut I would like to do it in a aplication that show me registers and such of the mcu :)18:10
sunshaviI meant running emacs within screen18:10
sunshavigdb runs inside emacs and gdb should be able of showing it18:11
sunshaviwith screen and a public IP You could share your complete emacs session.18:12
tuxd3vinteresting :)18:19
Beerfsmithred I suppose you already know that, bt a quick tip once some mounts are bound somewhere else, like /dev or /run/udev. Using umount on those will back-propagate to the source and risk bricking a rescue (will leave remaining mounted resources unavalable while improperly mounted, like the root mountpoint). Using mount --ùake-rslve before unmounting is required18:41
Beermount --make-rslave*18:41
* Xenguy invites Beer to #devuan-www ...18:45
* daimon suspects all the www devs have enough beer ;)18:45
XenguyWe need more!18:46
* daimon looks for vodka and scotch to invite ;D18:46
Beer(:18:47
fsmithredyou must have scrolled back a couple of days to come up with that.18:53
Beerfsmithred It's actually the continuation of words exchanged a couple weeks ago, while my initial effort to convert tradicition partitions into LVM18:57
Beertraditional*18:58
fsmithredouch18:58
BeerForgot already? :D18:58
fsmithredsounds familiar18:58
BeerWell, no "ouch" over here, yet: things went smoothly and the most important parts migrated successfully.18:59
Xenguyfsmithred receives a lot of packets ...18:59
fsmithredgood think my ISP doesn't cap my downloads18:59
XenguyUnlimited FTW18:59
BeerNow it's a game of communicating vessels to migrate the rest of the data on the remaining traditional mounts over to LVM18:59
BeerWHen you come to think there are still supposedly-civilised parts of the world still using data caps :P19:00
fluffywolfI have a 22GB/month cap, and $50/7GB if I go over it...19:26
fsmithredmust be close to that limit19:27
daimonouch19:27
daimonfsmithred, do they give you a 'usage so far'19:27
fsmithredI have no limit19:28
fsmithredwas commenting on the fact that fluffy ran off after stating those harsh limits19:28
daimonah19:28
daimonoh wait I thought you was the same person19:28
daimonsorry misread nicks19:28
fsmithredlol19:28
daimon;)19:28
fsmithredI do have some fur on my face19:29
fsmithredbut no pointy ears19:29
daimonI found that most isps do not seem to log traffic on UDP/53 so was going to suggest popping a vpn through a provider and run openvpn on that port on the remote host :D19:29
daimonworks really well19:29
fsmithredlol19:29
daimoneven works at hotels sometimes19:29
fluffywolfno, that was xfce-terminal crashing yet again, which it seems to do after the beowulf upgrade.19:30
fsmithredwould that work in places that give you a web login page before they let you onto the internet?19:30
daimonyeah UDP/32 is better known as 'nameserver'19:30
daimonUDP/53 *19:30
fsmithredxfce-terminal in xfce or in icewm?19:31
daimonyou need that to resolve things, so some do not tend to log it19:31
daimonanother little hack is using ICMP19:31
daimonwhich is very rarely paid attention to19:31
fluffywolf...  and again.19:32
fluffywolfwell, it's reproducable.19:32
fsmithredare you in xfce desktop?19:32
fluffywolfnot only can I crash the terminal I'm poking at, but _every_ running terminal dies at once.19:32
fluffywolfno.19:32
fsmithredtried a different term?19:32
fluffywolfthat would be one way of avoiding bugs in xfce4-terminal, yes.  :P19:33
fsmithredI don't have any problems with xfce, but on some systems I use lxterminal19:33
fluffywolfclose a terminal that has something running in it.  it pops up a dialog asking if you're sure you want to close it.  now cover that dialog box, say by bring another window over it.  poof, all terminals go away.19:33
fsmithredI will try that19:34
fsmithredbut not while I'm building an iso19:34
fluffywolfgood idea.  :P19:35
fluffywolfit seems all xfce4-terminals you have open are part of a common process, since killing one kills every one of them.19:35
fsmithredeven with a kill command?19:35
daimonpkill -9 ftw19:36
fsmithredlol19:36
fsmithredyeah, I opened another terminal but it did not give me another pid19:36
fluffywolfps only shows a single process no matter how many windows you have open.19:36
fluffywolfa single-process model, combined with crashyness, is annoying.  :P19:37
fsmithredtry starting it in a terminal :P19:39
fluffywolf...  holy fuck there's a lot of xfce4-terminal crashes bugs in the tracker.  heh.19:39
fluffywolfapparantly their code is shit.  there's no other explanation for that many crashing bugs.  lol19:40
fsmithredI recommend lxterminal19:40
fsmithredit looks enough like xfce term that I have to go to Help, About to be sure which one I'm using19:40
fluffywolfI used to use xterm, but it didn't handle fonts well on my high-dpi display.19:41
fluffywolfalthough having 600 columns lets you see a lot at once, it's not too useful if you can't read them.  :P19:41
fluffywolfand the bigger fonts rendered poorly.19:41
fsmithred600 columns sound scary19:42
fluffywolfwell, I'm exagerating slightly...  but 1920x1200 on a 15" display with the default xterm font was pretty small.19:43
fluffywolfI probably just needed to dick around with xterm's font settings.19:45
jason1235do you know a possible android x11vnc for android, that can be piloted from linux using tigervnc or xtightvnc ?21:11
scoofyhow do i determine which is the currently loaded console font?22:42
fsmithredcat /etc/default/console-setup22:43
scoofythanks!22:44
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure console-setup22:44
fsmithredto change it22:44
XenguyDo you need to reboot to see config changes?22:44
scoofyi can change it using 'setfont' without reboot any time.22:45
Xenguyhuh22:45
fsmithrednot if you reconfigure22:45
scoofymaybe in a systemd distro you need a reboot :)22:45
fsmithredbut if you just edit the file, you'll need to restart22:45
scoofysurely theres's some command to apply changes22:46
XenguyI tried the dpkg-reconfigure, and I didn't see any immediate changes, hence my original question22:46
fsmithredmaybe service console-setup.sh restart (not sure)22:46
scoofytry 'setfont'. list of fonts in /usr/share/consolefonts22:46
XenguyAll good info, thanks folks22:47
scoofy'setfont Uni3-Terminus12x6'22:47
fsmithredXenguy, I see changes when I switch from fixed font to vga22:47
scoofyyou can actually set different fonts for different TTYs. also different sizes!22:47
XenguyAs soon as the dpkg-reconfigure routine is done?22:47
Xenguyfsmithred: ^^22:47
fsmithredyes22:48
Xenguyscoofy: sounds promising22:48
fsmithredhalf a second later22:48
Xenguyfsmithred: OK, maybe I just screwed up, I'll try again22:48
fsmithredyou must be root22:48
scoofy'ls /usr/share/consolefonts'22:48
XenguyOh that might be it (can't remember ATM)22:48
scoofymust be root!22:48
* Xenguy checks...22:49
scoofybut you can go back to unprivileged user. font stays the same in tty. but need to be root to change it22:49
XenguyDamn, can't find the thread, well I'll just try again RSN22:50
XenguyOK, so I *was* operating as root, check22:51
scoofyi can set a small font for viewing logs, and set a larger font on another tty to chat22:51
XenguyI honestly would be happy if my console font was exactly the size it used to be by default in the yesteryears22:52
scoofyusing 'setfont' in each tty. it stays even if i log out. so it's per tty setting22:52
XenguySome genius had to go mess with that22:52
XenguyIf it ain't broke, don't fix it22:52
XenguyGood to know22:52
scoofythere's like... VGA16... the traditional stuff22:52
scoofy'setfont Uni3-VGA16'22:52
scoofyretro old-school IBM glyphs22:53
XenguyThat's a-what I like!22:53
scoofyyou'll find it in .../consolefonts. or in console-setup. Try 'VGA' option there22:54
XenguyShall do22:54
scoofyVGA16 is nice. i use it currently22:54
XenguyCool22:54
* Xenguy scurries off to finish check mirrors...22:54
Xenguy*checking22:54
scoofyFixed, Terminus, TerminusBold, TerminusBoldVGA, VGA <--- select VGA22:55
scoofythe old-school glyphs from VGA video cards22:56
scoofyselect 8x16. 8x14 is good too. 8x8 is CGA font, looks messed22:58
XenguyYou should create a forum post with all your findings on this22:58
XenguyI'm not sure how many people know or care about this stuff, but it's always good to have good documentation of stuff22:59
scoofyXenguy: i have editor access to the devuan wiki. i have not yet found out how to create a page, though23:16
Xenguyscoofy: This one (but not the only) reason we love having golinux around23:18
XenguyShe's able to clarify the status of things like that from her own neurons23:18
scoofyif i manage to find out how, i could do some wiki page about console fonts23:19
fsmithredscoofy, the existing wiki is deprecated23:21
fsmithreda new one is in the works but not ready yet23:21
scoofyokay, then i can make a page and migrate data to the new one later23:21
scoofyputting up some words about various console bitmap fonts, couldn't hurt23:22
fsmithredthanks23:26
fsmithredyou could post stuff on the forum for now23:26
XenguyGood idea23:29
scoofythere's much more content in the forum. what's the reason for deprecating the wiki?23:30
Xenguy.oO( Mediawiki is somehow not good enough? )23:31
masonMediaWiki doesn't do ACLs. It's really meant for everyone to edit it uncontrolled.23:32
XenguySounds ideal23:33
masonThere was a thread on DNG about it. Current favourite: Twiki.23:33
masonXenguy: Imagine the trolls on IRC, and now given them a place to display their art.23:33
XenguyAre you sure it hasn't got such a basic mechanism?23:33
masonWe want anyone to be able to get a user page, but that's different.23:33
XenguyIt's hard to believe23:33
XenguyWikipedia runs on it23:34
masonXenguy: You can glue them on but it's evidently not intended, and hence not smooth.23:34
scoofyso now the central info source should be the forum?23:34
XenguyNot ideal23:34
Xenguyscoofy: You know, it's kind of evolution in progress23:35
XenguyThings will change and continue to change23:35
XenguyBut forum is very active ATM, and wiki is not23:35
scoofyso... you think HOWTO setup console fonts, would be useful to have in the forum?23:35
XenguyThere are lots of great pieces of documentation there, in the forum, so yes23:36
XenguyI think that once we get a good wiki going, it would be a natural place to copy some of the good forum pieces too, so it was all in one place23:51
fsmithredyeah, that's the plan23:56

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